Easter holidays

[BritishDad]

Hi there,

I'd like to get a few opinions on how to handle a particular situation with my ex. We are a year into separation; we have two kids of 2 and 7. Since I moved out of the family home, they stay with me five nights in 14. Could be worse, in terms f hours, but in terms of the dynamic and comms between myself and my ex, we are very far from co-parenting, as she is very controlling, and good at not sharing information etc. in a way designed to marginalise me wherever possible. There has been lots of badmouthing of me, which has succeeded in isolating me from a lot of my former network, and I have seen some signs of efforts to alienate our oldest daughter, though our relationship is very strong, so this will not be easily achieved. All in all it's been pretty attritional and has taken its toll.

I have managed to take the girls away a few times in the last year - for 4, 6 and 5 nights - all of the trips have been a success; though they have also tended to produce an aftermath of increased hostility and negativity towards my parenting.

A month or two go, we had first discussions about holidays this year. Ex was keen to get some dates in the calendar so she could block out time at work - entirely reasonably. She then went silent on this, to the point I needed to nudge things forward. She started at that point saying that taking the girls away for a week at a time was problematic, as it caused separation issues for our youngest, and that I was disregarding basic good practice as a parent by suggesting differently. She works with children so likes to play the professional card and establish herself as the better parent.

I didn't rise to this, and proposed for the two-week Easter holidays we had a week each, and that she could take either week but that I would prefer the first if convenient. She surprisingly then came back, verbally not in writing, and basically agreed completely.

To my greater surprise, when I suggested I might like to take the girls abroad for a short break - to mainland Europe - after her initial knee-jerk annoyance, and once I sent her an email with details of the break (at a family-friendly resort, on a packge-style deal), she came back and said that this was okay.

I know I should be jubilant, but this is such a marked u-turn on her previous attitude, that I can't help feeling wary.
It is has been noted elsewhere that when a BPD ex is being too nice/accommodating that's time worry that there is a reason. My gut tells me something is afoot.

She is taking them on a local holiday for her week - a cheap and cheerful option as she made a point of noting.

I am wondering if she is planning down the line to try and portray me as irresponsible or cavalier for taking them abroad - that I was not choosing a holiday that was best suited for the girls. I have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that the place I've chosen is kid-friendly, good access to medical support etc. But she has a great way of twisting things.

The place we would be staying is an appartment with just one bedroom (though kitted out with bed for my oldest, and cot for youngest).  I am a bit anxious that this could be interpreted negatively.

I don't have her consent in writing, just verbal. Should I be wary of not having something in writing?

Would really appreciate any thoughts/insights/past experiences of similar situations.

Thanks in advance

 

[livednlearned]

Hi BritishDad,

So week-long separation from mom for a week is bad parenting on your part, but week-long separation from you is somehow ok?

 

It's hard to know why there is a change in tone. But it's good practice to document agreements, and then quote back the agreement in your follow-up in case she is splitting you good/bad and needs evidence of her own words while in a different mood state.

The hostility toward your parenting after a long trip may also just be how she experiences her own separation stress. People with BPD don't tend to handle separations very well, and don't handle stress well. Coping mechanisms to deal with this stress are not often good.

Does your custody arrangement allow for trips abroad? If so, then go and have a good time. She will make all kinds of accusations whether based in fact or not. Trust that you are a good dad who is focused on your girls' well-being, because you are. 

[enlighten me]

Hi Britishdad

With my uBPD exs when they are being nice its normally down to one of two things.

Firstly that I was painted white for whatever reason.

Secondly they had a new love interest so where wrapped up in them.

If they where agreeable for malicious purposes i.e. to let me drop myself in it and use it against me then there where obvious undertones that where easy to pick up on.

[FSTL]

I am going through a high conflict divorce at the moment in the UK and I can identify with many of the behaviours you identify.

All I can say is, based on my experience with the courts, you have nothing legally to worried about. A week is fine (I assume they can do eg face time) and courts are very supportive of kids spending time with both parents. I had a case last week and the court was very assertive with my ex-wife and her drama. It may depend upon the judge, but they seem to look through parental behaviour/insecurities, and look at what is best for the kids.

I would suggest keeping records of everything - I only communicate by email, which has been invaluable at keeping the ex honest ... .once I show her lawyers what really happened via emails, they tend to back off from the crazy allegations.

Good luck - I know it's stressful, but the courts are good with kids in the UK.

[FSTL]

Firstly that I was painted white for whatever reason.

Secondly they had a new love interest so where wrapped up in them.

This... .but would also add a Thirdly... .they wanted something from me.

[enlighten me]

I am going through a high conflict divorce at the moment in the UK and I can identify with many of the behaviours you identify.

All I can say is, based on my experience with the courts, you have nothing legally to worried about. A week is fine (I assume they can do eg face time) and courts are very supportive of kids spending time with both parents. I had a case last week and the court was very assertive with my ex-wife and her drama. It may depend upon the judge, but they seem to look through parental behaviour/insecurities, and look at what is best for the kids.

I would suggest keeping records of everything - I only communicate by email, which has been invaluable at keeping the ex honest ... .once I show her lawyers what really happened via emails, they tend to back off from the crazy allegations.

Good luck - I know it's stressful, but the courts are good with kids in the UK.

Even with written records it didn't stop my ex wife from lying. She twisted things 180 degrees and even though I had the texts messages to disprove her I was never given the chance to use them.

UK courts aren't interested in the full facts. They look at the big picture and make decisions from there. The fact my ex lied all the way through the divorce didn't matter. During the last court case though her lies to the court contradicted her so it went against her.

I agree with the third reason of wanting something from us.

[SES]

Get something in writing from her.  If you go abroad, she could report you for abduction in order to be malicious. I can take mine anywhere in England and Wales, but even going to Scotland would require her written permission.

If she has a history of making allegations, then her past behaviour will be a good indication of her future behaviour. 

I video every handover of kids.  I recorded any contact I had with from her from the start of her behaviour escalating.  I now deal with her only in writing.

[enlighten me]

Unless theres a court order preventing you from taking the children abroad I believe that a parent in the uk can take their children out of the country for up to a month without having to get permission from the other parent.

A week therefor should not be an issue.

[ForeverDad]

Having it documented is very important.  In writing is best but these days agreements by email or text seem to becoming acceptable to courts today.  Verbal agreement?  Try getting a court to listen to a recorded conversation, very hard to accomplish.

I would suggest you not accept her extended time away until both of your plans are agreed to.  As others have noted, you can't expect reciprocity after she gets what she wants.

I remember when I ghanded my then-separated spouse our first Vacation Notice she objected.  I asked my lawyer and he said it's a notice and not a request, have a good time.  Fortunately I was smart enough to start my vacation on my weekend.  (If I had started on her weekend then she would have just been a no-how at the exchange.)  I was a few states away when my 'regular weekend' ended and she lodged complaints triggering calls from the police.  Then my lawyer called me, a rare thing in itself, and said to call my stbEx and let her talk to our preschooler.  I told him she could have called almost anytime herself.  He said she wouldn't and just make sure they speak every few days.  Later after we got back I found out she had tried to get an Amber Alert declared but the deputy on duty wisely told her the facts didn't fit the Amber Alert quidelines.

In most areas 2 or 3 weeks of 'extended' time are annual standards.  Some may say they can only be one week at a time, others may allow 2 weeks at a time.  Also, it is unreasonable not to allow the children to travel together with you.  It is generally unwise to separate the children without cause.  If she objects then a court would have to decide if her claim has merit.

[FSTL]

Unless theres a court order preventing you from taking the children abroad I believe that a parent in the uk can take their children out of the country for up to a month without having to get permission from the other parent.

A week therefor should not be an issue.

A week shouldn't be an issue, but you need a specific issue order, child arrangement order or parental consent to take a child outside of England and Wales. Without this it is child abduction. As someone else said, get consent in writing, but really it is better to get a child arrangement order. I am seeking one with fixed holiday and contact arrangements that require no other interaction with the mother - she uses consent and holiday arrangement as a control tactic and the orders completely remove that option.

I disagree on the lying point - courts do care about lying, but only if it is relevant and they also accept that lots of people are awful and kids still should get access to awful parents (unless there is a risk to child welfare).

Best just to be the sane parent and ideally get court orders that allow the bare minimum of interaction with the crazy ex.

[livednlearned]

Whatever is legal or not legal, anticipate that your BPD co-parent will not have the emotional stability to see things clearly, even if she agreed to it in advance.

The psychology that goes along with emotional lability followed by splitting will make it hard for her to perceive your actions as innocuous if she is emotionally aroused or experiencing separation stress.

Best to assume that she will threaten legal action, or worse, act on it.

In other words, cover your bases. 

[enlighten me]

A week shouldn't be an issue, but you need a specific issue order, child arrangement order or parental consent to take a child outside of England and Wales. Without this it is child abduction. As someone else said, get consent in writing, but really it is better to get a child arrangement order. I am seeking one with fixed holiday and contact arrangements that require no other interaction with the mother - she uses consent and holiday arrangement as a control tactic and the orders completely remove that option.

I disagree on the lying point - courts do care about lying, but only if it is relevant and they also accept that lots of people are awful and kids still should get access to awful parents (unless there is a risk to child welfare).

Best just to be the sane parent and ideally get court orders that allow the bare minimum of interaction with the crazy ex.

From my experience my exs lies went unchallenged as her lawyer had his say and I wasn't given a chance to counter her lies. All the court was interested in where the cold hard facts. The fact that her lies painted a bigger picture of her mental state didn't come into it. I now a number of people who have had the same experience. It was only when their exs tried acting on their lies that they where even looked into.

Below is a site which has some useful information for separated dads in the UK. According to them if your on the birth certificate you can take your child abroad but if its against the mums wishes she may use it against you in court.
www.separateddads.co.uk/can-ex-stop-taking-son-holiday.html