Not sure what is going on here...

[Depression = 72% of members]

I haven't been on this board in a while... .Things with my uBPDex wife were going pretty well.  We were seeing each other a lot and back in December I lost my job I had for 9 years.  She asked me to move back in as my lease was up and I could finish the two classes I needed for transfer in January to a major university about an hour away.  We were getting along very well and even talking about a "future" again.  Fast forward to the beginning of March and she had a minor dysregulation about something unrelated to us.  She had taken on a second job as her new mortgage (she bought a brand new house) was stressing her and the fact that the kids were not helping around the house at all.  Any housework that was done was either her or I.  I did pretty well validating and seemed to calm her down.  She got mad at something else about the house and she yelled at me.  I firmly told her that I would not be yelled at and she had no right to treat me that way.  She said I needed to be out at the end of the month as "this wasn't working for her" and told me to sleep on the couch.  I said, "Ok."  The next night she asked if I was coming to bed.  She apologized for her behavior and I told her that I forgave her.  We made love and that was that.  A week ago Wednesday her sister came into town to leave town the next morning.  My uBPDex asked her sister if she wanted her to make the couch into a bed and she said, "No, I'll just sleep in your bed with you.  I don't do couches."  My wife looked at me awkwardly but yet said nothing to her.  I was thinking, "Wow."  Thursday they both left the country to go look at some land on an island for a business they wants to start.  She got back and I noticed she was standoffish for a bit that day. She got all the kids a gift and didn't get me anything.  I didn't say anything or acted like it bothered me. Late that night we had sex and fell asleep in each other's arms. The next morning I woke up and she said, "Good morning!  What are you going to do today?"  I told her and she said "OK."  She got a phone call a bit later from one of her friends that was coming in and she said that she could sleep in her bed.  When she got off the phone, I asked her I needed to sleep and she said, "You to be out by Thursday before my friends get in to town."  She had three friends coming into town to look at a business venture they are interested in.    I thought she was joking and just stood there.  She said, This should come as no surprise as I told you earlier this month you needed to be out.  I told her that I understood that's what she said but also that she apologized for her behavior and I thought we got through that.  She said, "We fight all the time (absolutely not true anymore) and I can't handle it anymore.  I validated that and then she said that I do "nothing around the house."  I almost laughed but validated as best I could without taking that on.  Fast forward to Thursday and she took my house key away and told me she would think about me coming back after her friends leave.  I talked to her once over text over the weekend (pleasant exchange) and asked if I could come home with no response after that.  I'm not really sure how to handle this one.  Honestly, there was no big fight, no major dysregulation.  Nothing... .Thoughts?

[MaroonLiquid]

I haven't been on this board in a while... .Things with my uBPDex wife were going pretty well.  We were seeing each other a lot and back in December I lost my job I had for 9 years.  She asked me to move back in as my lease was up and I could finish the two classes I needed for transfer in January to a major university about an hour away.  We were getting along very well and even talking about a "future" again.  Fast forward to the beginning of March and she had a minor dysregulation about something unrelated to us.  She had taken on a second job as her new mortgage (she bought a brand new house) was stressing her and the fact that the kids were not helping around the house at all.  Any housework that was done was either her or I.  I did pretty well validating and seemed to calm her down.  She got mad at something else about the house and she yelled at me.  I firmly told her that I would not be yelled at and she had no right to treat me that way.  She said I needed to be out at the end of the month as "this wasn't working for her" and told me to sleep on the couch.  I said, "Ok."  The next night she asked if I was coming to bed.  She apologized for her behavior and I told her that I forgave her.  We made love and that was that.  A week ago Wednesday her sister came into town to leave town the next morning.  My uBPDex asked her sister if she wanted her to make the couch into a bed and she said, "No, I'll just sleep in your bed with you.  I don't do couches."  My wife looked at me awkwardly but yet said nothing to her.  I was thinking, "Wow."  Thursday they both left the country to go look at some land on an island for a business they wants to start.  She got back and I noticed she was standoffish for a bit that day. She got all the kids a gift and didn't get me anything.  I didn't say anything or acted like it bothered me. Late that night we had sex and fell asleep in each other's arms. The next morning I woke up and she said, "Good morning!  What are you going to do today?"  I told her and she said "OK."  She got a phone call a bit later from one of her friends that was coming in and she said that she could sleep in her bed.  When she got off the phone, I asked her I needed to sleep and she said, "You to be out by Thursday before my friends get in to town."  She had three friends coming into town to look at a business venture they are interested in.    I thought she was joking and just stood there.  She said, This should come as no surprise as I told you earlier this month you needed to be out.  I told her that I understood that's what she said but also that she apologized for her behavior and I thought we got through that.  She said, "We fight all the time (absolutely not true anymore) and I can't handle it anymore.  I validated that and then she said that I do "nothing around the house."  I almost laughed but validated as best I could without taking that on.  Fast forward to Thursday and she took my house key away and told me she would think about me coming back after her friends leave.  I talked to her once over text over the weekend (pleasant exchange) and asked if I could come home with no response after that.  I'm not really sure how to handle this one.  Honestly, there was no big fight, no major dysregulation.  Nothing... .Thoughts?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Sunfl0wer]

Sounds like it wasn't convenient for her to have you around so she made up some reason to get rid of you for a bit and devalued the relationship some to make that happen.

Idk, maybe this is down to boundaries and what is and isn't ok for you in a relationship.

Way I see it is simply working on reuniting without setting boundaries for the behavior is like a statement that you are ok in a relationship where she can kick ya out anytime it is inconvenient.  (I kinda think this is a precedent you two set by her divorcing, then you return.)

Or maybe you don't mind and your priority is to simply reunite in easiest way possibly thus tossing out/suppressing any values you may have about how you are treated?

Cause in my book, the way you behave and she behaves communicates louder about what you two want than any words that may get exchanged.  

So idk, I would start by identifying my values.
Decide what I want in a relationship, have to have, cannot have, etc.
Then explore options after that.

Idk though, seems ok for her to toss you out when she likes, and a relationship is able to remain sustainable with you given this behavior... .  So it sounds like she doesn't have an issue with this... .but rather, it benefits her in some ways.

[Fian]

Part of it could be a push/pull dynamic.  You got too close, so she is pulling away.  My advice would be to leave the house, go no contact, and if she wants you in her life again, insist on a marriage certificate.

Also, remember when I asked you if she would be there if you needed help?  We are now seeing the answer to that.

[MaroonLiquid]

Part of it could be a push/pull dynamic.  You got too close, so she is pulling away.  My advice would be to leave the house, go no contact, and if she wants you in her life again, insist on a marriage certificate.

Also, remember when I asked you if she would be there if you needed help?  We are now seeing the answer to that.

I tried calling her this morning and she didn't answer.  I sent her a text that said, "You must be busy.  Just seeing what was going on.  Talk to you later.". She responded, "I've decided that it's best for me and my kids if you don't live here. I will work out a schedule with you when you can get your belongings."  I responded about an hour later, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  It's your home and you have the right to make that decision.  It's honestly sad as my kids were in a good place with everything and my family was in a good place.  Everyone wanted us to work it out."  She responded, "You know why it didn't work, ML. You admitted it while you were here Thursday (all I did was validate the "not helping thing" when you asked for another chance. It's final and I'm not going to rehash anything."  I responded, "Admitting a fault doesn't change the facts.  I did a lot and contributed a lot.  When you truly love someone, you love the good about them and their faults.  It's hurtful that it seems so easy for you to get rid of me.  As much as I've been there for you and the kids, that's a tough pill to swallow.  I always thought you would be there when the chips are down as I have for you."  No response.  After about 20 minutes, I sent her, "Please put the $268 dollars you owe me in my bank account today as I need it.  Thanks."  I could have left that out, but she owes me money and I am letting her know that I am not letting that go.  Thoughts?

[Fian]

I would let the 268 go, but then I am in a different financial situation than you.  If you truly need the money, then you are in a bad situation, as depending on a pwBPD is not a good place to be.

About validating, it sounds like she is interpreting your validation as agreeing with her that she is right and you are wrong.  Maybe the fault is in her misinterpretation, but you might want to review your validation approach to see if it can be refined.  Part of SET is also sharing with her your view of things.

[Grey Kitty]

  ML, it has been a while.

Seems to me you've got several things going on at once, and you might do better unwinding them separately:

  You recycled your romantic relationship with uBPDexw. (Do you want to keep working at this r/s, or would you rather move on?)

  What about the $268, living expenses, and her demands that you leave on a moving target?

If you are paying an equal share of her mortgage/monthly expenses since you moved back in at the beginning of the year, it would seem fair to insist on this, and also to be allowed to stay 'till the end of the month you paid up for. ['Tho she was previously very willing to get explosive on issues like this, stealing your laptop, etc... .so I wouldn't push your luck too much!]

If you are living with her rent-free, then I'm assuming your share of the monthly household expenses are waaaaaay bigger than $268 by now, best to let that one go away as quietly as you can.

And meanwhile... .can you afford to move out, get a place on your own, or crash on somebody else's couch or guest room until you get a job and get back on your feet? Or do you NEED her support?

[MaroonLiquid]

 ML, it has been a while.

Seems to me you've got several things going on at once, and you might do better unwinding them separately:

  You recycled your romantic relationship with uBPDexw. (Do you want to keep working at this r/s, or would you rather move on?)

I don't know right now.  Im OK but actually dumbfounded by this latest discard.  I guess I shouldn't be.  But there was no major dysregulation that accompanied this like when we split up two years ago.  Would I like to be with her?  Yes.  Do I like to be discarded so easily?  No.
 

  What about the $268, living expenses, and her demands that you leave on a moving target?

If you are paying an equal share of her mortgage/monthly expenses since you moved back in at the beginning of the year, it would seem fair to insist on this, and also to be allowed to stay 'till the end of the month you paid up for. ['Tho she was previously very willing to get explosive on issues like this, stealing your laptop, etc... .so I wouldn't push your luck too much!]

If you are living with her rent-free, then I'm assuming your share of the monthly household expenses are waaaaaay bigger than $268 by now, best to let that one go away as quietly as you can.

And meanwhile... .can you afford to move out, get a place on your own, or crash on somebody else's couch or guest room until you get a job and get back on your feet? Or do you NEED her support?

No, I was "out" last week with 98% of my stuff still at her place.  I was paying rent ($500 a month which covered me until the 1st although the original agreement was that I pay nothing while living there while I get done with school), letting her son/daughter use my car almost carte blanche when I didn't need it as they only have one, bought a table and chairs for her home (stupid me, I know).  I don't NEED her as I have family here that I can live with, however, it's nowhere near ideal.  I turn 40 in two weeks so I feel like crap.     Great birthday present!  . I am handling this much better as I'm more angry with myself right now than anything.  I've always been there for her and it's hard when you realize that they aren't for you.  At least not in the same way.

[Grey Kitty]

Well, she certainly felt entitled to a lot of your money when the two of you were splitting, so the way she's behaving now fits that pattern.

And I gotta say... .living with her sounds like a really bad idea for you, whether you get back together with her or not. When you were married, then separated, and finally divorced, it was a lot more stable once you got moved out.

So... .I hear you when you say living with family is "not ideal" and I'm not going to argue with that.

But I think living with her is "less idea" than living with family. Once you get a job and get on your feet, you can live independently.

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, she certainly felt entitled to a lot of your money when the two of you were splitting, so the way she's behaving now fits that pattern.

And I gotta say... .living with her sounds like a really bad idea for you, whether you get back together with her or not. When you were married, then separated, and finally divorced, it was a lot more stable once you got moved out.

So... .I hear you when you say living with family is "not ideal" and I'm not going to argue with that.

But I think living with her is "less idea" than living with family. Once you get a job and get on your feet, you can live independently.

I hear what you're saying and my mom is saying the same thing.

 My uBPDex blocked me on Facebook again last night or this morning.  I think I understand why and how that would hurt her.  My sister made my mom a Facebook account yesterday because she doesn't know how to (my sister doesn't even know the situation with my uBPDex yet) and made her profile picture of our family without my uBPDex and her kids included.  The picture was taken from my sons birthday party last month with the tag, "My beautiful family" that included my sister, her husband and I and our kids.  My uBPDex and her kids were there at the party but we're not in the room when this particular picture was taken.  They would have been in it had they been there.  We had another picture taken with just us.  I could see how this would be seen as retaliation or directed at her considering what's going on, however it was totally innocent.  She already felt like my family hated her even though my text to her was they were hoping we would work it out.  Amazing though how they can do whatever they want to us and it be justified with no concern for us, but God forbid they feel slighted because they jump to a conclusion.  Thoughts?

[Fian]

From what I have observed is that pwBPD takes a lot of liberties in filling in the gray areas of communication.  Normally they paint people black, so they fill in the gray areas with black.  They put a lot of emphasis on non verbal communication.  They paint the non-verbal as black, and then react back negatively because they painted black.  They have complete arguments and wars with you all based on how they chose to paint you.  In the end you become the aggressor and them the victim, and it is all based on nothing.  It is so frustrating because there is no way to break through their delusion.  The best you can do at times is accept their vision of reality and apologize for being black.  Personally, I am unwilling to do that so things aren't going that well right now. 

[MaroonLiquid]

From what I have observed is that pwBPD takes a lot of liberties in filling in the gray areas of communication.  Normally they paint people black, so they fill in the gray areas with black.  They put a lot of emphasis on non verbal communication.  They paint the non-verbal as black, and then react back negatively because they painted black.  They have complete arguments and wars with you all based on how they chose to paint you.  In the end you become the aggressor and them the victim, and it is all based on nothing.  It is so frustrating because there is no way to break through their delusion.  The best you can do at times is accept their vision of reality and apologize for being black.  Personally, I am unwilling to do that so things aren't going that well right now.  

That makes a lot of sense in my case.  Must suck to live that way!  I realize to when you are "black", any kind of true apology to pwBPD is pointless most of the time. 

[MaroonLiquid]

So I saw my uBPDexwife yesterday for the first time in a week and a half (since she blocked me on Facebook  ) at our daughters softball practice that I coach.  Within the last week, my son went into the Children's Hospital for three days.  I did text her asking her to pray for him with no response.  The two of them have always been close and even though I wasn't looking for a response, I was surprised she didn't. With having no contact (nothing really to say) and I didn't speak to her at practice and I wasn't ignoring her but was in "coach" mode.  She found a lame excuse of a question to approach me.  We later talked about other softball things and she never brought up my son or asked how he was doing.  Some behaviors she does I find so ridiculous.  Is it that they don't care or that they "split" and can't care.  Whatever, it's ridiculous.

[Grey Kitty]

since she blocked me on Facebook 

Is life better when she's blocked on facebook? Or when you are not painted black, do you have good interactions with her there?

Since you are blocked now, might be a good time to block her back, and keep it that way!

[MaroonLiquid]

Is life better when she's blocked on facebook? Or when you are not painted black, do you have good interactions with her there?

Since you are blocked now, might be a good time to block her back, and keep it that way!

I don't block people and never have.  I think it's childish and stupid.  When I'm not painted black, we have had good interactions on Facebook for the most part.  It's almost like she does it to get a reaction out of me.  Which she doesn't.  Why do you think I should block her?

[Grey Kitty]

If you didn't get anything good from her on FB when you weren't painted black, it would be worth considering, but that isn't the case... .so I don't think you should block her.

Doing it to punish somebody (like she does) is childish and stupid; no argument there.

I've blocked one person--the guy my stbexwife cheated with because I wanted nothing to do with him, ever, and found it triggering to see FB interactions between him and my stbexwife. I only spent a few hours with him before the incident, so there wasn't much of a r/s to lose. After a couple years, the emotions have faded, but my assessment that he's not somebody I trust enough to ever want to hear from him again still stands. So he's still blocked. (And to be honest, I'd probably have minor grumpiness if I saw him interacting with stbexwife)

For people who have split and are trying to go NC, it is a useful tool.

[MaroonLiquid]

For people who have split and are trying to go NC, it is a useful tool.

I'm not trying to go NC, I just always do very little contact (or no contact until she contacts me) until she gets over the dysreg... .kind of like yesterday when she started a convo with me over something trivial.  It's almost like she can't stand the thought of me not speaking to her and gushing over her.  Truth is, as much as I love her, I'm not afraid to be without her anymore.  I think that's a great place to be.  I want things to work out, but if not, I know I'll be ok.  

[MaroonLiquid]

So I have been trying to act way more centered (business-like) regarding contact with my uBPDexwife.  I feel much more "in control" of myself this way!  When she dysregulates, that's how she acts.  It used to always get a rise out of me and make me kind of grovel.  How sad is that?  It doesn't now though.  I have not contacted her and she has contacted me twice.  She has asked me two questions she could have very easily found the answer to.  I find that rather ridiculous.  Why do they do that?  If they miss us, can't they just say it? 

I waited a while (which I normally never did before and would answer right away) to answer and answered just her questions.  I didn't try to keep any communication going which is something I used to do also.  Thoughts?

[Grey Kitty]

She has asked me two questions she could have very easily found the answer to.  I find that rather ridiculous.  Why do they do that?  If they miss us, can't they just say it? 

Too vulnerable. If she said outright that she missed you, you could outright reject her, and she's not willing/able to risk that.

OTOH, when she reaches out like this, she hides it with an unneeded request, and you can cloak your rejection as well.

Uhm... .I didn't say it worked well, 'cuz she will still feel rejected if you don't respond... .

If you are done being hurt/sad/frustarted/whatever you felt when she shut you off, you can respond positively as she is reaching out in this backhanded way. But wait 'till you are feeling like it.

If you respond to the underlying concern/interest/missing you aspect instead of the question she didn't need your answer for, you might encourage a more direct/vulnerable response next time.

[MaroonLiquid]

Too vulnerable. If she said outright that she missed you, you could outright reject her, and she's not willing/able to risk that.

OTOH, when she reaches out like this, she hides it with an unneeded request, and you can cloak your rejection as well.

Uhm... .I didn't say it worked well, 'cuz she will still feel rejected if you don't respond... .

If you are done being hurt/sad/frustarted/whatever you felt when she shut you off, you can respond positively as she is reaching out in this backhanded way. But wait 'till you are feeling like it.

If you respond to the underlying concern/interest/missing you aspect instead of the question she didn't need your answer for, you might encourage a more direct/vulnerable response next time.

Can you give me an example of what responding to the underlying concern looks like? 

[Grey Kitty]

Can you give me an example of what responding to the underlying concern looks like? 

Well, I didn't even read the texts, just your description of them; I'm guessing from what you wrote that she misses you and would like to reconnect with you, at least emotionally. (And she's kinda done with painting you black for now)

So... .I'm kinda guessing, but here are some things to consider:

"(comment related to original question, leading into... .)... .I missed you too."

But whatever she's thinking, it appears she doesn't feel safe enough to be vulnerable and stick her neck out and ask for what she wants from you.

Perhaps you feel strong enough to be a bit vulnerable and ask for something with her? OTOH, she's proven herself not safe in a lot of ways; you've learned limits of how vulnerable you want to be with her. So don't do something that you know is stupid!

[MaroonLiquid]

Well, I didn't even read the texts, just your description of them; I'm guessing from what you wrote that she misses you and would like to reconnect with you, at least emotionally. (And she's kinda done with painting you black for now)

So... .I'm kinda guessing, but here are some things to consider:

"(comment related to original question, leading into... .)... .I missed you too."

But whatever she's thinking, it appears she doesn't feel safe enough to be vulnerable and stick her neck out and ask for what she wants from you.

Perhaps you feel strong enough to be a bit vulnerable and ask for something with her? OTOH, she's proven herself not safe in a lot of ways; you've learned limits of how vulnerable you want to be with her. So don't do something that you know is stupid!

The text she sent me was about an email that we got regarding a charge for a web domain we had purchased a year ago.   Because it comes up in conversation format on our phones, it brought up the receipt from last year right before it making it look like two invoices.  All she had to do was look at the date.  She's very smart and I don't believe she didn't see it. 

I saw her earlier this evening and as she picked something up from me at practice.  I kept it short as I was in the middle of practice.  She asked a question and I explained it best I could quickly but she didn't understand.  She left following that and I called her when I had a moment later and explained it to her in more depth.  She understood then what I was trying to say earlier.  I told her at the end of the conversation that it was nice to see her.  She said, "Take care" (her usual response that I can't stand when she is in this mental state) and I said, "OK, bye."  Again, I'm trying to stay centered when dealing with her right now.  The whole, "Take care... ." thing irritates me.  I never show it, but honestly, who says that to someone they have spent seven years together with?  It seems so uncaring and cold.  Thoughts?

[Grey Kitty]

You don't sound ready to make nice.

You sound pissed off, and trying to be civil or maybe friendly so as to avoid burning bridges.

I'd suggest you believe and honor your own feelings about your exwife. You know that there are better tools to improve the relationship, but you may not want to use them today or this week.

[MaroonLiquid]

You don't sound ready to make nice.

You sound pissed off, and trying to be civil or maybe friendly so as to avoid burning bridges.

I'd suggest you believe and honor your own feelings about your exwife. You know that there are better tools to improve the relationship, but you may not want to use them today or this week.

Interesting insight.  I thought we were supposed to stay centered emotionally with them in times like this.  That's a tool I'm trying to follow.  In what way do you see me "trying to stay friendly as not to burn any bridges"?  I do believe and honor my feelings and yes I'm pissed off about some things.  I'm human yet I'm not trying to be led by those emotions.

I did text her and asked what she was doing today with no response.  Not mad about that.  She is not ready to talk.  Fine.  

Maybe I did play things a little different by not answering her texts right away and she isn't used to that.  Maybe she took it personal and thought I was being mean.  No, I refuse to be at her beck and call anymore.  Thoughts on all this.  I know I'm throwing a lot out, but trying to put it here than with her.

[Grey Kitty]

Well... .there are lots of old bad habits, like JADEing, other invalidation, or just plain being mean, and the lessons here would have you stop doing those things. 

Personally I aim for that, even when I'm angry, hurt, or whatever--I find that if I lash out (with good reason or bad), I later regret it.

We also have tools and recommendations like validation--things you can actively do to improve the relationship.

I don't know that it is possible to do such things sincerely when I have negative feelings like that. Even if I try, they don't seem to go over very well. But I also know that negative feelings will usually pass sooner or later, so I'd save that kind of work for a time when I'm feeling genuinely compassionate and caring.

So when I said you seem "not ready to make nice" (Yeah, I was thinking of the Dixie Chicks song), I meant that this isn't a good time for you to try reaching out with kindness and/or validation to your ex.

[MaroonLiquid]

Well... .there are lots of old bad habits, like JADEing, other invalidation, or just plain being mean, and the lessons here would have you stop doing those things. 

Personally I aim for that, even when I'm angry, hurt, or whatever--I find that if I lash out (with good reason or bad), I later regret it.

We also have tools and recommendations like validation--things you can actively do to improve the relationship.

I don't know that it is possible to do such things sincerely when I have negative feelings like that. Even if I try, they don't seem to go over very well. But I also know that negative feelings will usually pass sooner or later, so I'd save that kind of work for a time when I'm feeling genuinely compassionate and caring.

So when I said you seem "not ready to make nice" (Yeah, I was thinking of the Dixie Chicks song), I meant that this isn't a good time for you to try reaching out with kindness and/or validation to your ex.

I have become pretty adept at validating and not JADE'ing considering all of the crisis she creates for herself at times.  That's why things were going very well and didn't understand why she asked me to leave.  It is hard to stick to the "tools" in this circumstance.  I am trying but there is a part of me that wants to be an a$$ and "make her pay" for a while and let her see how she treats me.  Is that who I am?  No.  Is that how I feel currently?  Yes. 

I texted her earlier and asked if she would please send me a picture of our daughter (her daughter my step) as she has a formal dance tomorrow and it's her first one in high school.  No response again.  Oh well.

[formflier]

ML,

Sorry about the stuff going on in your life.  It would seem that stability would be good for you as you try to settle into a new normal.

It would also seem that your ex is still attracted in to instability and alternate realities.  Business ventures on an island... claiming a person that is helping is "no help"... etc etc

I sense there is some confusion on your part due to her apparent lack of dysregulation.  I would look at ability to regulate emotions as a symptom or a marker and nothing more.  Please look past that and see if any "core stuff" has changed.

Unfortunately... .it doesn't sound like it has.

The FF prescription:

1.  Determine if you are OK with what you are getting from her.  Broadly: it appears that you get cyclical sex, live together as family, devaluation, kick out and likely an offer to get drawn back in (wash rinse repeat)  Does that seem accurate.

2.  Determine if your school plan gets you to a place of stability for future jobs.  (don't assume the plan you made at start of school... .still holds true)  Prove that out.

It seems like you have short term stuff handled somehow.

Again... .good to hear from you and sorry for the situation you are in.

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

ML,

Sorry about the stuff going on in your life.  It would seem that stability would be good for you as you try to settle into a new normal.

It would also seem that your ex is still attracted in to instability and alternate realities.  Business ventures on an island... claiming a person that is helping is "no help"... etc etc

I sense there is some confusion on your part due to her apparent lack of dysregulation.  I would look at ability to regulate emotions as a symptom or a marker and nothing more.  Please look past that and see if any "core stuff" has changed.

Unfortunately... .it doesn't sound like it has.

The FF prescription:

1.  Determine if you are OK with what you are getting from her.  Broadly: it appears that you get cyclical sex, live together as family, devaluation, kick out and likely an offer to get drawn back in (wash rinse repeat)  Does that seem accurate.

This seems very accurate!  As far as "core" stuff, it hasn't changed, but I will tell you we had been much happier this time and getting along much better.  Yes, there was the occasional "BPD behaviors", but I would do well with validating and not getting into it with her.  I am handling this situation much better and not overly emotional about it.  I have actually surprised myself in the area.  Don't know if that's growth or I have grown in being stronger.  I did text her with a minor request of a picture of her youngest daughter in her formal dress since it is her first formal as a high school student.  I also texted her that my grandfather is in the hospital and she didn't respond to either one.  I haven't texted her since yesterday.  I'm actually not mad that she didn't respond, but don't understand how she couldn't.  Oh well.  I'll be ok.

Am I OK with what I am getting from her?  To a point.  I love being a family because when things are good, they are great.  I can say these last 4-5 months were pretty great.  I can't stand the devaluation or the kicking me out, especially this time considering there was no huge ordeal that led to it.  I can for the first time know this is all about her and whatever she is dealing with. 

2.  Determine if your school plan gets you to a place of stability for future jobs.  (don't assume the plan you made at start of school... .still holds true)  Prove that out.

It seems like you have short term stuff handled somehow.

Again... .good to hear from you and sorry for the situation you are in.

FF

Thank you.  Once I get this class finished, I will move about an hour away (going to the same college as her daughter when she starts in the fall).  I think "moving for school" has a lot to do with it considering when we were together last time, she kicked me out with only one full semester left before transferring (we did go through a big fight that led to our breakup).  I picked it back up over the holidays and in my last class before being eligible to transfer.  She has always supported me getting my degree, but I also think it is a source of fear with her regarding abandonment. 

[formflier]

  but I will tell you we had been much happier this time and getting along much better.

Just a thought... .what if this is the trigger to her core stuff?

My P believes that my wife just can't do close relationships (without years of therapy).  So, if I am more aloof if I stay on the "pull side" of things and "slightly resist" getting closer, stability is the word of the day.

I suppose that will have to qualify as happiness.

One of the "fundamental" or "core" things going on with my wife is a distrust of men.  I just happen to be the dude "in the line of fire". 

I suspect it is similar for you.  Sure, we done things wrong here and there... .but I get the sense that you are a fundamentally good... .caring guy that will go the extra mile for his family.  That is fundamentally invalidating for a person that thinks (at a core level) those types of men don't exist.

Drawing out a family tree... .with the aid of my P... .helped me see the extent and the realness of where my wife's beliefs come from.  There are NO men in her FOO that are anywhere close to "good".  Affairs, drinking, out of wedlock kids, it was very public as well.  As in... .everyone in town knew it.

That stuff leaves scars that you or I can't fix... .we can affect it somewhat... .but the issue will remain.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, moving away for school would easily trigger her fear of abandonment.

Not much you can do about that, other than know that the immediate cycle from fear to dysregulation/rejection of you will pass as well.

Detach, protect yourself, validate, and reconnect when it passes. I imagine it will happen again when you enroll, shop for an apartment, move, or something like that.

[MaroonLiquid]

Just a thought... .what if this is the trigger to her core stuff?

Interesting... .I always thought that the better things were that eventually they would learn to level out.  Guess I was wrong.

My P believes that my wife just can't do close relationships (without years of therapy).  So, if I am more aloof if I stay on the "pull side" of things and "slightly resist" getting closer, stability is the word of the day.

I suppose that will have to qualify as happiness.

One of the "fundamental" or "core" things going on with my wife is a distrust of men.  I just happen to be the dude "in the line of fire". 

I am a person who loves closeness and intimacy.  It's hard for me to stay "aloof" very long.  Guess I will have to work on that.  And boy do I know what it's like to be in the line of fire!   

I suspect it is similar for you.  Sure, we done things wrong here and there... .but I get the sense that you are a fundamentally good... .caring guy that will go the extra mile for his family.  That is fundamentally invalidating for a person that thinks (at a core level) those types of men don't exist.

She definitely distrusts all men, and it does go back to her FOO,  I feel like I am a good guy who loves his ex/family and will always go the extra mile.  Do I make mistakes, of course I do.  But I certainly try and do the right thing.

Drawing out a family tree... .with the aid of my P... .helped me see the extent and the realness of where my wife's beliefs come from.  There are NO men in her FOO that are anywhere close to "good".  Affairs, drinking, out of wedlock kids, it was very public as well.  As in... .everyone in town knew it.

That stuff leaves scars that you or I can't fix... .we can affect it somewhat... .but the issue will remain.

FF

Her family tree is definitely a major problem for her.  Her dad is a hoarder that uses each of his kids only when he needs them, her mom is uncaring (probably BPD as well who is always at odds with someone), She hasn't spoken to her brother in years, one of her sisters is bi-polar, her other sister has a bunch of issues and abandoned her daughter, and the sister she is close to is a control freak.  Back story on her... She has a man that adores her that lives by me (she lives about 4 hours away in another city) and he's a really good guy.  he has been married several times but always wanted to be with her.  She keeps him on a string and when she comes into town, she calls him and he always sees her.  She will put him in front of seeing my ex and it makes my ex mad.  They have been on and off again for almost 20 years.  He wants to be with her but she won't commit.  Sounds awfully familiar.

Yes, moving away for school would easily trigger her fear of abandonment.

Not much you can do about that, other than know that the immediate cycle from fear to dysregulation/rejection of you will pass as well.

Detach, protect yourself, validate, and reconnect when it passes. I imagine it will happen again when you enroll, shop for an apartment, move, or something like that.

I agree.