BPD's distorted reality and feeling very tired

[onelittleladybug]

Hi all. I have only posted once before. My uBP is my next door neighbor and romantic partner. We are on again off again and admittedly some of that is my fault. I have struggled a lot with this relationship and honestly dont think it would have lasted more than a week if we didnt live so close to each other. But time has passed, Ive gotten to know who he really is next to the disorder and love has grown out of it. So I am glad that this was in so many ways pushed on me, but I am also completely overwhelmed most of the time.

I need help learning how to deal with validating while feeling pushed to my limits. My upwBP will have several issues in one night, one after the other. I start off with good intentions and validating. A couple to a few hours and several "issues" into the night I often end up losing my patience. Which then usually ends in both of us exploding. Its been a week now and Ive been given the silent treatment since last weeks explosion until last night. Then I learned that I "left him", that he wishes he never met me. Hes been giving me silent treatments every week now for 3 months and Ive been trying to deal with it by letting him come out but he doesnt. He will fester and get more and more angry and Ive realized he is waiting for me to contact him to coax him out of his mood. Which I usually do. Im pretty good at it as I was raised by a stonewalling parent (though not PD). I digress. I dont know what to do about any of this. I feel like I understand validation, Im also trying to take times out for myself to recharge so that my validation can be more sincere and not forced. I have so many other difficult things going on in my life now. I know he probably feels like he is not getting enough for me. I know that the only thing that works is to listen to his feelings, its just that listening to his feelings just feels like a distorted reality given that I was there, I am the other party and I know I didnt leave him. I dont need to be right, but I feel like there is a truth to a situation and its very hard for me to let go of that.

Breaking up isnt really an option as long as we both live here but more importantly it isnt what either one of us wants. We just struggle with each other. I think there might be a chance for me to get him into therapy, he has brought up mental health issues and his past in therapy and I feel like it is an invitation to a conversation about it but given how volatile every subject is Ive been cautious about it. I did send him an email last week and told him I thought he had BPD and that I would be there for him every step of the way if he was willing to go to therapy. He didnt respond but last night I asked him if he was mad about my letter he said "no its not about what you said, its about what you did" (i.e. leave him).

Im under a lot of stress due to other things in my life. An impending major life change in two months when my mother who I work with in our small business retires, moves out of my house and back to her home country. It feels a bit like a divorce at least business wise but she has been very dependent on me personally as well. I need to find someone to share the house with as I cant keep up with the payments alone. I need to set up my business so that I can keep it going but also find a job which I prefer over running the business. Two close friends have very serious cancer and bad prognosis. Three family members have also been diagnosed. Basically Im not 100% present for any romantic relationship and definitely not at my best to deal with all these challenges. But here I am and I cant pause life while all this is happening. My thoughts are a BPD would take it as the ultimate betrayal if I put my relationship with him on hold while going through all of this. So Im not trying but I lose my patience with him all the time and I dont want to but my bandwidth is very limited.

Any thoughts/advice/feedback greatly appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

That is a lot going on! I bet that you feel pushed to your limits on several fronts. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with all of that at one time. 

As for your statements about validation and the truth, it's never a good idea to validate the invalid. It is also not a good idea to try to explain the truth as you see it. The best thing that you can do is find the nugget of truth in what he is telling you, and validate that.

In this case, he feels that you left him. To him, because he feels that way, it probably is his reality, even if it is not yours. Is it possible for you to find out why he feels that way and validate the feeling rather than the facts?

It has been said that for people who suffer from BPD, what they feel is so intense for them that it is factual to them. When you start to dispute the facts and tell them that their feelings are wrong, you are telling them that they are wrong. This generally does not end well! No one likes to be told that they are a bad, wrong person after all.

[onelittleladybug]

Thank you so much Meili

As for your statements about validation and the truth, it's never a good idea to validate the invalid. It is also not a good idea to try to explain the truth as you see it. The best thing that you can do is find the nugget of truth in what he is telling you, and validate that.

Got it. That makes complete sense. Does this also mean that communicating my side/perspective is never a good idea? We have talks and moments that are very giving on both sides. Im also struggling with anxiety disorder (as he is too), he has had very empathetic moments where he completely validated my feelings and I his. I have ADD and theres no tolerance for that for him, it just gets on his nerves. I get confused when its safe for me to share. I am beginning to recognize the onset of a disregulation. It happens very frequently at times, but there have been weeks without.

When you start to dispute the facts and tell them that their feelings are wrong, you are telling them that they are wrong. In this case, he feels that you left him. To him, because he feels that way, it probably is his reality, even if it is not yours. Is it possible for you to find out why he feels that way and validate the feeling rather than the facts?

Yes. It is possible. Im in this pattern now of waiting for him to come out of silence and seclusion. I dont always understand myself what I am feeling in the moment but I guess a part of my reaction was shock to find out that he has been feeling that hurt all along. I thought he was just blowing me off. Im incredibly sad and frustrated at the same time.

The night of our last fight he threw a tantrum over a bag of hangers that belonged to his ex roommate who was also his friend with benefit. He offered me to take them and I first declined, then accepted. My acceptance set him off. I immediately told him it the hangers werent worth it to me if he didnt like me to take them but it took good 20-30 mins to settle down. Next issue was him insisting on feeding me snacks from the corner store. He knew I had dinner waiting for me at home that I cooked and was excited about. But he wouldnt stop offering. Somehow rejecting his food offering became rejecting him. I try to thank gracefully and tell him I appreciate him taking care of me, but it rarely works. When he has decided on something he wont take no for an answer. The third issue that night was when he said something very crass and hurtful to me about a door to door solicitor that had been at the house earlier. I had casually mentioned that this lady was wearing very tight pants. It didnt mean anything, it wasnt a test. It was just an observation. At the end of the night I asked him what she was selling, he told me and then remarked "I would [bed] her". He usually doesnt talk like this, he just did it to spite me. But it worked, especially since he has taken sex off the table as a punishment for the instability of the relationship and my earlier indecision about it. I have been feeling rejected myself and that night I just didnt have more patience. I walked out and yes I understand that to him it looked like I left him. I didnt though, I was in touch the next day and every other day throughout the week. I just dont know how to deal sometimes. I wish we could just both go to therapy. Each individually and together. Im just overwhelmed most of the time.

[Meili]

Yeah, it does get overwhelming and frustrating. I bet that doesn't help your anxiety any either! I know that I used to have a real problem with my anxiety when I was fighting with my x every day.

Does this also mean that communicating my side/perspective is never a good idea? We have talks and moments that are very giving on both sides.

NO! None of this means that you do not get to communicate your side/perspective. It's more a matter of timing.

We all want to be heard and validated. The thing is, that when a person is emotionally aroused, or as we say around here dysregulated, the chances of them hearing you is slim. It's even worse with a person presenting BPD traits. They are so overwhelmed by their own emotions that there is little to no chance that they are going to have the bandwidth to deal with yours.

So, it's typically best to address things when they are calm and have reached an emotionally neutral position. Then, it is best to use one of the communication techniques like S.E.T., D.E.A.R.M.A.N. or P.U.V.A.S. (for more information see the lesson: Communicate - Listen and Be Heard).

You listed several things that happened and gave you insight into what he was probably feeling, and based solely on what you wrote, I suspect that you're spot on. Then hangers, snack, and your walking out all probably felt like rejection to him. This likely lead him to the fear of abandonment and ultimately shame. These feelings are probably very intense for him. It stands to reason that it would take him longer to reach an emotionally neutral place than it would someone who doesn't exhibit BPD traits.

When these things happen, it's natural to want to justify, argue, defend, and/or explain (JADE). People typically think that if they can just explain their side of the situation that their partner will understand and everything will be better. But, remember what I wrote above about dysregulation? The partner is not thinking with a Wisemind and telling them that they are wrong Invalidates them and causes things to get worse.

All of these things are easy to say and talk about, but because they are not how we have been taught to communicate, when we become emotionally aroused and stop thinking with the logical side of our brains we tend to forget them. That's why we all need to practice while not in the middle of emotional conflict. We need to retrain our brains to think and respond differently so that in the heat of the moment, it's habitual to use healthier communication techniques.

[onelittleladybug]

Thank you Meili. This is all putting things in perspective.

I feel horrible today. Im realizing how much I have invalidated. I had a conversation with him last night that ended terribly. He said I accused him of being a batterer. I dismissed it right away but afterwards and especially when I woke up this morning I was able to see everything with his eyes and realized based on things that I said that night its not hard to understand that he felt that way. I dont think he is a batterer, I dont think he is generally violent. I feel incredibly sad and wish so much I could make things better. Im thinking about knocking on his door and apologizing but Im afraid of his reaction and that it will only make things worse. He has blocked me everywhere so I cant send him any messages.

[Meili]

Please try to not be too hard on yourself. Many of the things that we talk about around here are counter-intuitive. As a result, very few of us know any better than to act as we acted. If we did, we wouldn't be posting here to begin with!

If you think that now is a good time to apologize and don't want to risk a face-to-face response, you can always send him something in a non-digital format.

What would you say, and what do you think that his response would be? Are you strong enough and prepared for a harsh reply?

It is important that we be able to handle the reply no matter what it is. It can be really hard when we feel vulnerable to open up and run the risk of rejection. If you are prepared for it though, then apologizing for things that we believe we actually did wrong is not necessarily a bad thing.

A word of caution though, don't over due it when you do apologize.

For almost ten years my dBPDxw thought that I was a horrible monster. In some ways, she was correct. I did all of the wrong things and frequently lead her to believe that she was a bad person in my eyes. I had no idea what BPD was, nor did I think that I was doing anything wrong with how I communicated.

After finding these boards because of another relationship, I learned just how I treated her. Out of the blue a few months ago, she contacted me for the first time in 9 years. I was able to use the tools that I've learned here and was able to convey my apologies in a way that she could hear and understand me. We are becoming friends now as a result.

[onelittleladybug]

What would you say

I would say "I know youre not a batterer. Im so sure of it I would take an oath to it. I know this is a painful issue for you as you have been wrongly accused in the past. I couldnt see how all my words and actions last week affected you. I didnt intend to imply this about you but this morning I was able to see and understand how it must have looked and felt for you and Im so sad about that. I understand that you dont want to talk to me but I felt it was really important that I tell you this and I hope you believe me. I understand you are angry and hurt. If you and I are over I still want you to know I stand by you 100% in this respect, I am on your side and I know who you are and what you are not."

... .and what do you think that his response would be? Are you strong enough and prepared for a harsh reply?

I think if I get to communicate the first 2 sentences for him he will listen. I think he will not say anything, close the door on me and then think about it. I think he will be ready to talk to me in about 2-3 days. Getting a harsh reply would really sting and I would have to really show restraint to not get upset and agitated myself. Worst case scenario he will close the door on me before I get to say anything. Not sure if I could cope with that. And lets face it its very likely.

[Meili]

That is a very sweet way of saying what you want to say. I am sure that many men would love to hear something like that from their wife. There were one or two things that you might want to consider revising.

In the lesson Validation Skill - Stop Invalidating Others we learn that sometimes the words that we use, no matter how innocent we think that they are, can be invalidating. When we tell our SO that we didn't mean something the way that they took it, even that can be invalidating... .whether the person is disordered or not. The same thing applies to anything that can come across as trying to make the other person feel guilty. If I were to rewrite what you want to say, it would probably look a bit more like this:

I know you're not a batterer. I'm so sure of it I would take an oath to it. I know this is a painful issue for you as you have been wrongly accused in the past. I couldn't see how all my words and actions last week affected you. This morning, I was able to see and understand how it must have looked and felt for you and I'm so very sorry about that. I felt it was really important that I tell you this. I understand you are angry and hurt. I want you to know I stand by you 100% in this respect, I am on your side and I know who you are and what you are not.

Can you see the difference? Do you understand why I made the changes that I made?

[onelittleladybug]

Can you see the difference? Do you understand why I made the changes that I made?

Yes clearly and I dont even think thats a BPD thing I think its just a better way to communicate altogether. Any me vs you, us vs them is counterproductive. I am here to learn. Boy have I been humbled lately. I read through the skills then thought I had it all covered. This clearly has to be an ongoing learning process. I cant skip a day. I really got deep into the validation skills a couple weeks ago and couldnt believe the difference. We were really connecting and everything was so much easier. Then I dropped the ball. I keep saying he is always trying to "outcrazy" me but the thing is I have nights where I really outcrazy him. Just had a very intense conversation with my best friend about this. She said "what about your feelings" and I said its all valid, its just that when I lost my temper I flushed my boundary setting down the drain and now I have to start over again. She got it, sort of. Being with him has placed a big mirror in front of me and tbh I dont always like what Im seeing.

Thank you. So much. I decided to give it to him in writing but in person and just say "its an apology, please read it".

[Meili]

I hear ya. At first, it's can be really hard to see, but if we think about it, our pwBPD traits can give us a very precious gift. They can cause us to look inside ourselves in ways that we never have before. This allows for our growth as individuals. That growth can improve every relationship that we have... .even the one with ourselves. We just have to accept the gift.

Developing the new skills takes time. It can be a very frustrating experience, but since they are skills and not talents, they are things that everyone can learn.

I hope that the letter is received as intended. Please keep us posted.

[onelittleladybug]

I delivered the letter by person. Was surprised how fast he got to the door and that he knew it was me. The walls in our house are really thin, he hears so much better than me. Anyway he seemed almost jacked up to me. He accepted the letter but pressed for telling him in person. I tried, didnt get a good start but then managed to say it was about him not being a batterer. He asked me what his expression looked like. I didnt say anything, hes the one who reads faces and mine wrong all the time. I just said "I dont really know, I cant read into it". He said if I was trying to get him back to forget about it. If I was trying to repair a friendship he could talk to me. I said all Im doing is correcting this, its not right. He wouldnt stop telling me he was not getting back into a relationship with me and then said we were always just friends. I said "well to be honest youve been all over the map with that". He paused and thought about it which was interesting to me cause it was the only point in the convo where he reflected. Then said "you have friends right? Many friends, tons of them?" My friends have triggered jealousy in him many times, sometimes extreme. He has accused me of having a lesbian affair with one of my girlfriends. So just I said "yes I have good friends in my life. All Im trying to do tonight is repair the issue of battery. Its not you and Im really sorry that came up". Its usually me that cant stop talking when in conflict but this time I said I gotta go. He was on his way out himself, he said "I will unblock your car" which wasnt an issue, we were parked like usual. I think he was just trying to find anything nice to say.

I think thats all that went between us but I have been spacing out. Im not sure if Im dissociating or what is happening but I started dissociating a couple years ago due to other things causing me extreme stress.

I feel like Im slipping into depression again. I didnt sleep much and I was having very helpless thoughts, bordering on suicidal. I snapped out of it and made some decisions but all of this is making me feel like I shouldnt fight for this relationship. He seems intent on ending things now and I think all I can do is accept and not resist. I love him very much though, its just too painful. We have to go to therapy if we are going to work out and I dont think he will. He still has me blocked on all channels. (FB, Google Hangouts etc). Maybe thats just for the best.

At the chance of changing my mind later I would love input. I also would appreciate any interpretations. My thoughts: He knows he has to change and he is not ready so he is trying to downgrade our relationship so as to avoid commitment and the possibility of causing disappointment in him leading to rejection of him. He has done this many times ("just friends" but nothing changes, all the conflicts are still there. He has done it to try to curb his own jealousy, but the jealousy pops up just a week or two max later. I know for me it only creates more feelings of rejection.

[Meili]

He seems intent on ending things now and I think all I can do is accept and not resist.

That's probably true. Right now he feels that way, but how will he feel tomorrow? People with BPD traits tend to live in the moment because to them, their emotions are their reality and their facts. At the moment, he may very well feel it's over between the two of you, and therefore, to him, right now, it is a fact. The good news here is that emotions change. This, in turn, means that for him, his facts can change.

I remember how discouraging moments like that were to me. There are many posts from other members around here who have written almost the exact same thing. It really helps to not take what the pwBPD says personally. They are fighting their own internal battle and projecting those feelings onto the non.

It also helps to detach with love from the situation. You are an individual and so is he. Two separate lives that come together, not as one new life as is often portrayed in the media, romance novels, and movies. But, you really are and always will be your own, unique person.

Jealousy is hard. I've been on both sides of that one. The irrational fear of being rejected by my SO simply because I didn't feel that I was good enough for her. The only way that I've found to handle jealousy is to slowly and consistently make my SO feel safe in the knowledge that I'm not interested in anyone else. It's a slow process. There is a lot of insecurity behind jealousy.

Maybe, if given the opportunity in the future, you can discuss this with him. As part of the discussion, ask him what the two of you can do together to help quash the jealousy. Statements like "what can we do about it" can be very helpful.

[onelittleladybug]

Thanks Meili this is helping a lot. I am feeling defeated today but I have a really good support system and Im already feeling better after talking to my bff. I have most likely not given up on him but I feel very strongly today that I need to just let him be and let him process whatever he needs to without me pushing.

You are an individual and so is he. Two separate lives that come together, not as one new life as is often portrayed in the media, romance novels, and movies. But, you really are and always will be your own, unique person.

I could write a whole essay on my need to assert my individuality. To get to the point it is very strong. Another reason why me and him clash I think, or at least in the beginning. I also generally have not been willing to put up with rage, control or anything like that in previous relationships. I have walked away from many situations without looking back. When he is disregulating my go to reaction is "Im not putting up with this, Im out of here". Its worked for me for years so its confusing me that its not working anymore. That tomorrow comes and I want to go back and work things out.

Jealousy is hard. I've been on both sides of that one. The irrational fear of being rejected by my SO simply because I didn't feel that I was good enough for her. The only way that I've found to handle jealousy is to slowly and consistently make my SO feel safe in the knowledge that I'm not interested in anyone else. It's a slow process. There is a lot of insecurity behind jealousy.

Ive never been very jealous, Im generally very trusting. I experience the feeling but I manage it pretty well. I have been worried a few times that he would go and do something just to get back at me. I react harshly to his jealousy as Im scarred from a previous relationship with another very jealous and insecure person (a non though). I invalidated the exes jealousy and I have been invalidating my pwBPD's jealousy and many other feelings. I lost friends due to exes jealousy, people that I missed when the relationship fell apart and I needed my friends around me. But I learned over time though by just processing the relationship and events that the SO always has to come first. Within reason. Its not good to give up friends for them but yes things should be discussed and measures taken to make them feel more comfortable. I just havent been doing a good job of it. To my defense I was nowhere near ready for all of this when he was. Rage started 3 days into the relationship. On day 2 he was euphoric and mentally moving in together. All my alarms went off and if we didnt live right next to each other I would have walked away never looking back but also never getting to know the wonderful person he is. Its now 7 months and Im finally getting ready to commit but then he is in a different place and feeling bad about things. I am very frustrated with explosions and break ups but knowing finally in my heart I want to fight for this. For now Im taking time for myself until/if he is ready again.

[Meili]

Taking care of you and making yourself the most attractive person possible (which includes learning to communicate in a healthier fashion and maintaining your boundaries) is all that you really can do at the moment.

Pushing him may push him away and that would be counter to your goal.

A couple of times now, you've stated that you are acting differently in this relationship than you have in others in the past. Have you figured out why that is yet?

[onelittleladybug]

I know Im all over the map but I will tell you today I feel at peace with this being final. Sad yes but not in turmoil. Its been non stop drama for many months and Im enjoying the peace and quiet.

A couple of times now, you've stated that you are acting differently in this relationship than you have in others in the past. Have you figured out why that is yet?

The sarcastic answer to that question is Ive never had a relationship with a BP before 

He has been verbally abusive from the very first days. In the past if anyone ever called me the names he has (sociopath, psychopath, retard, liar, ass. I cant remember them all) I would simply walk away and never talk to that person again. I didnt feel like it deserved any further attention from me or a clarification of boundaries as it goes against fundamental communication rules, being civil and decent to another human. To wake up the next day and actually want to talk to that person again is very confusing to me and I have struggled immensely with my feelings about all of this. Im still very conflicted if I want to or can even muster to need to set boundaries every night, and explain to him how I cant be ok with x,y,z. I feel like there are things that are obvious like not throwing tantrums and calling me names.

So to really answer your question with him I need to set boundaries more than before and Ive never been comfortable with it. I have walked away instead of communicating my boundaries and giving people a chance to respect mine. I have assumed that they should know and I shouldnt have to tell them.

But to his credit he recently started making a real effort to stop with the name calling. After a fight I reached out, it was through text and I had the validation page from this menu ----> right in front of me the whole time. He started out telling me what an ahole I am, very angry. I listened, set boundaries, validated. After about 20-30 minutes he had done a 180. It was a completely different conversation. I managed to set boundaries about name calling and he listened and he has been keeping to his words ever since. The word "liar" came up the other day but thats very mild in comparison to other things he has said. So I would say hes been doing really well, I appreciate it and am proud of him for it.

I know this stuff works, Ive seen it. I just feel overwhelmed with how much work it is. I also feel burdened by the responsibility. I know Ive messed up a lot, it feels like if I mess up everything gets much worse and thats not a good feeling. Im still trying to figure out if I can do this. Like Ive mentioned before its definitely not a good time for me, I shouldnt even try to be in a relationship right now with all the other madness in my life. But theres an actual date set on when that situation ends and its getting very close. I didnt feel like I could ask for his patience because he sometimes feels rejected that there is something else that has more gravity and urgency than him. My friends and family are reminding me on a daily basis that considering what Ive been going through in the past couple years it is time to put myself first and take care of me. Not sure if thats possible while being in this relationship. It might though because he has had moments of being very supportive.

Im ranting. Thank you so much for listening to me. I hope this is helping other people as well.

[Meili]

The sarcastic answer to that question is Ive never had a relationship with a BP before 

  Because you've walked away from the others in the past?

My friends and family are reminding me on a daily basis that considering what Ive been going through in the past couple years it is time to put myself first and take care of me. Not sure if thats possible while being in this relationship.

Interestingly enough, that's the very thing that you must do to be in that relationship. You must put yourself first. If you don't, then you'll become a doormat and pwBPD tend to lose all respect for the non at that point and their behaviors get worse.

This is part of why we stress boundaries and the need to be strong so much around here.

[onelittleladybug]

Thought Because you've walked away from the others in the past?

Yes. You ask tough questions  It is an issue for me. Some people in my life say I worry so much about it that I do the opposite, I stay too long in bad situations. I spend a lot of time feeling confused tbh.

However isnt walking out of an abusive relationship the reasonable, healthy and normal thing to do? Who stays with a person that calls them a sociopath on the 3rd date? Isnt it a bit insane to give someone like that a second chance?

Interestingly enough, that's the very thing that you must do to be in that relationship. You must put yourself first. If you don't, then you'll become a doormat and pwBPD tend to lose all respect for the non at that point and their behaviors get worse.

This is part of why we stress boundaries and the need to be strong so much around here.

Yes but there are other people that dont test you every 5 seconds. That dont throw a fit when you go out to see a friend. People that wont fight with you over your very basic and healthy choices that are a part of taking care of yourself and having a healthy and balanced life.

See my never ending confusion/dilemma?

Why stay?

[onelittleladybug]

Yikes. I ran into him outside the house last night. He was severely intoxicated and yelled at me when I said hi. Yelled louder when I asked if he was ok.

This is bad. Really bad. Seems like its just spiraling out of control. He still has me blocked on every channel. I took a peak at his facebook page a couple days ago and he has been posting a lot, basically everything against me. Opposing issues that are important to me. He usually doesnt talk about issues or politics on there or really in real life either. Im the political one.

Things have never been this bad before. Should I do something? Im conflicted. I dont necessarily want to do anything but if this situation keeps escalating Im getting worried about him.

[Meili]

What would you do?

I know that it's hard to watch someone that you love and care about self-destruct. I struggled as I watched my ex do things that, in my mind, were incredibly hurtful to herself and everything that I knew about her goals in life. I just had to accept that it was her life and that I could not save her from herself.

It helped me to take a look at myself and figure out why I wanted to save her. It was really hard for me to admit the reasons that I invested so much of my time and energy into trying to protect her from herself.

[onelittleladybug]

What would you do?

Well he looked like he was doing ok over the weekend. He still has me blocked on every channel and when we run into each other outside the house he tries to hide behind the car until Im inside. I waited a couple times so I could say hi to him and he did not even want to greet me.

I dont think I can do anything and not sure I should either. The way I feel about things lately is mostly just accepting it. I sent one SMS saying "Its understandable if you're angry. I felt I needed to think carefully about what you said when I gave you the letter the other night. I respect your decision about closing the door on a relationship. I appreciate the offer of friendship and hope you still feel that way and will reach out when you're ready."

No answer. Its 100% stonewall. Which is what Ive been reacting to. So I think the clear answer for me now is to not react to it. But I also dont want it in my life. So theres that. As scary as his rage was, the stonewalling is worse for me. I wasnt always prepared when he raged but there were times I felt like I could get through to him in that state but not the silent treatment. I just feel like he is fading out of my life and since he is doing it intentionally maybe its just the way it should be.

It was really hard for me to admit the reasons that I invested so much of my time and energy into trying to protect her from herself.

Is it ok for me to ask what your reasons were? I think this is interesting to look at for myself and if youre comfortable with it I feel like it could help to compare.

[Meili]

No answer. Its 100% stonewall. Which is what Ive been reacting to. So I think the clear answer for me now is to not react to it.

Yep, when you quit responding to that tactic, he'll change.

Is it ok for me to ask what your reasons were? I think this is interesting to look at for myself and if youre comfortable with it I feel like it could help to compare.

You can ask me anything. I'm pretty open about why I acted and did the things that I did, at least as far as I understand them.

The reason that I invested so much in the ex that brought me here was because of my own insecurities.

Now, I realize that is easy to say and is pretty much a blanket statement, so I'll expand on that... .

For me, it was my perceived need to prove that I was good enough. Good enough for what became the question. Good enough for her to love fully and completely. Good enough to make her want to change herself and get the help that I thought (think) that she needed. Good enough to show her that there is more in the world. Good enough to love her the way that no one ever had before. Good enough to prevail where others have failed.

As it turns out, I was really using her as a surrogate for my family of origin. I was looking to her for that which I did not receive as a child. If I could only, somehow, save her and our relationship, that would prove that I am good enough and that my family and the world as I saw it in my head were wrong.

There were many layers of discovery between the thoughts of "I want to protect her" to "Wait, I've been doing all this because I actually need to feel that I matter to someone?" I had to deal with my martyr complex, white knight syndrome, low self-esteem, and several other thought patterns that I had been taught before I could even begin to understand my actual motivations.

[onelittleladybug]

Sorry Meili I meant to thank you for your thoughtful response earlier but was distracted by family matters.

Yep, when you quit responding to that tactic, he'll change.

I believe you. It could be that he is completely done though. If it is its a sad ending but Im not blaming myself or him, its been hard and we have both messed up. Ive discovered a lot about myself in the past few months all the while going through incredibly stressful things in every single area of my life so Im trying to go easy on myself. If its not the end things will have to be dealt with differently.

There were many layers of discovery between the thoughts of "I want to protect her" to "Wait, I've been doing all this because I actually need to feel that I matter to someone?" I had to deal with my martyr complex, white knight syndrome, low self-esteem, and several other thought patterns that I had been taught before I could even begin to understand my actual motivations.

I deeply appreciate you sharing this.

I have 2 best friends and they are both therapists. Best friends since childhood, teenage years so safe to say they know everything about me. One is a MFT and treats BPDs on a daily basis. The other one is a Clinical Psychologist and also treats BPDs on a regular basis. I was in therapy as a teenager but I havent been for a long time. Through both my bffs I have learned I have ADD (Im leaving the H out because I have attention problems but am not hyperactive) and Anxiety disorder. One of them has been telling me for years and years that I am a Detached Personality and its because of childhood stuff. I have acknowledged this as truth but just didnt really see it as a problem. Until now. I spent a lot of time reading up on this last weekend. I pretty much read for 2 days straight. I also started reading The High Conflict Couple. I am finally starting to see that being detached is not good for me and it also doesnt make me a good partner. So here I am. Maybe I found a pwBPD to love because my perpetual ambivalence is the worst thing I can do to that person and I must stop myself from leaving. I just have a really difficult time figuring all this out because so much of what has happened in this relationship is not healthy and shouldnt be acceptable. I cant just say I should take it all because of my problems. I need to learn to assert my boundaries but not run away.

[Meili]

Yeah, you shouldn't "just say I should take it all because of my problems." Just because you, or I, or anyone else, has personal problems and issues does not mean that we should allow others to take advantage of those issues. I have had to learn to define boundaries and tell people know when they start to play on and take advantage of my insecurities.

Taking an honest look at myself and learning just what motivated me and why was difficult. It's great that you are doing that!

Figuring it all out can take time. Have you considered working with a counselor to help with both your personal issues and the relationship issues?

[onelittleladybug]

Have you considered working with a counselor to help with both your personal issues and the relationship issues?

Yes. I am very interested in starting therapy again and have been researching T's in my area. I cant sign up just yet because I would currently have to pay completely out of pocket but once I have a better health plan Im really looking forward to it. In the meantime Im reading a lot, thinking a lot   talking to friends which is sometimes not helpful actually but I have very supportive friends though its just that they tend to side with me which isnt really what I need. Im also going to acupuncture treatments which is pretty awesome for anxiety. I can highly recommend it if anyone reading this is curious. Im thinking about getting a dog and taking up hiking again which I used to do a lot of and really helped with focus and clarity but I stopped doing it when my old dog passed away. I think I can do a lot on my own to deal with the anxiety and ADD but I really need a T for the relationship stuff.

[Meili]

Those things sound like a great place to start taking care of yourself! I'd love to try acupuncture someday.

I would advise you to use caution when talking to friends about relationship issues. Yes, they will tend to side with you, but it can also cause them to distort or formulate opinions about your SO that will last past the reconciliation and cause you problems in the future.

It can also stress and tax a friendship. Friends can get frustrated when they give advice based on what they learned, which is typically what we learned in the past and has done damage to our relationships.

It's healthy to lean on friends and family for support, but know that it can come with trouble.

[onelittleladybug]

I would advise you to use caution when talking to friends about relationship issues. Yes, they will tend to side with you, but it can also cause them to distort or formulate opinions about your SO that will last past the reconciliation and cause you problems in the future.

This is a very large can of worms. Do you have time? Say 7 hours?

Lets just say Ive been learning this the hard way. There was a dynamic here in my building (we live in a duplex) in the beginning. Ive said before its been stormy from the very beginning of the relationship. My mother lives with me and witnessed our fights. She interfered. WAY too much. She would even throw tantrums when I went to see him. I was having panic attacks. Things were literally crazy. I wasnt siding with her but some things she said would get to me, so for a while I judged him as abusive. That and many other things really hurt him. He hasnt been to my apartment for the past 4 months. I always go to his place. He is welcome here now but he doesnt want to visit and I understand that 100%. Im completely not ok with this but there was not much I could do. This lead to me deciding that she and I could not live together. She is moving out at the end of May and I feel it will save our mother/daughter relationship. Anyway I felt really torn and confused by things she said about him and went to my friends for advice. It was helpful for a while but it isnt anymore. So Im increasingly avoiding talking about him, excusing myself from talking about it with friends when they ask. Its almost impossible not to talk about it with my mother as she lives here. But I really resent when she reads into things, usually coming to the wrong conclusion. The long silent treatments lately have been lonely for me and I have been tempted to talk about it but just always finding it unsatisfying.

I want to add that it was understandable that my mother worried about me but the extreme level of control she tried to have on me was in no way acceptable.

The damage is done, people know too much but I keep stressing whenever the issue comes up that everything that has happened has been my responsibility as well and I was an active participant and many things were instigated by me.

[Meili]

Yeah, those types of things are the very reason that I suggested not talking to family and friends about it. I'm sorry that you've already reached the point with them that lines have been drawn.

It's tough for people who care about us to understand if they haven't been through the situation before. They only want the best for us after all. When we vent to them, they think that they know what is best for us. Sometimes they are right, others... .not so much. They can also become judgmental of us and our choices without understanding why. It's hard.

But, as with many other things, over time, the situation and dynamics can change.

[onelittleladybug]

Well I dont want to get too much into the details here but I was justified in seeking support from my family and friends at the time. Things got really scary after he quit anti-depression meds cold turkey just a few weeks after our relationship began. Really ugly stuff, Ive never seen such rage before in my life. I was trying to figure out if it was temporary or if he was really like this when not on meds. I was scared at times. His tempers slowly subsided into January and I havent seen anything scary since. I dont know how I was ever supposed to go through that and remain silent. I was trying to figure out who he is. I didnt know about BPD until 2 months ago and it was my best friend who told me about it. Wouldnt have learned about it if I had not shared whats been going on.

I also want to add that its not healthy to devote yourself to someone you just met. My friends have known me all my life. They are also the most open minded, non-judgmental and supportive people you can find. Hes been in my life for 7 months now. If we get back together he takes priority status. But he has been back and forth with it himself for months now, from lovers to friends so I cant give him priority until he makes up his mind. Back when he wanted my commitment it was much too early for me to give it.

That said I am 100% with you on keeping things more private from now on.

[Meili]

I'm sorry is I came across as chastising you or saying that you did something wrong.

I agree that people should not remain silent and that talking to those that are close about how we feel is a good and necessary thing.

I trust that you know who in your life is going to not be judgmental and who will.  So many people out there judge though, so it can become a problem when the couple reconciles. That was the caution that I was trying to convey.

I'm glad that you have found those in your life that helped you. Support is important.

Again, my apologies for not being clear on that.

[onelittleladybug]

Gosh no need to apologize. I didnt take it that way. I basically agree with you now but I needed friends input in the beginning. If I sounded defensive in my last reply Im still reacting to how things were a few months ago. He didnt like that I was talking to them about things he did and things that happened between us. He said the same things as you about this but I needed to be sure those were his actual reasons vs manipulation or his own shame for the rage.

So many people out there judge though, so it can become a problem when the couple reconciles. That was the caution that I was trying to convey.

Everything you just said and then add that r/s work better if you're not constantly complaining about your SO. That will add layers of negativity. Another hard lesson learned.

I trust that you know who in your life is going to not be judgmental and who will.

Yes well they are non-judgmental but they also would prefer I move on even on a good day. Not because they really have anything against him, just because Ive been having a rough time and they want me to feel better. So I prefer to keep things to myself and this forum at this point. Ive discovered that I seek and need different things in a romantic r/s than my bffs do and thats not necessarily a conversation I want to have with either of them.

Im having a tough week missing him. I was fine last week but this one is not so good. I dont know if theres hope for us though, if we can stop acting crazy.