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Author Topic: Getting very frustrated with myself and family is not helping at all  (Read 541 times)
allienoah
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« on: April 13, 2017, 09:04:09 AM »

I am feeling so very empty and exhausted today. I am taking the stance of "when you don't know what to do-sit and breathe".
Many of you have read my posts about my indecision/conflict with my bfwBPD. Honestly I truly love him.
That said, we have had many tumultuous situations throughout our relationship and many of them have happened in the last 2 months. I have also written about them. It is also well documented here that my D-24 and S-22 absolutely can't stand him. I refuse to use the word "hate"-its too ugly. They want nothing to do with him, and if I remain with him, nothing to do with me.
I have been doing a lot of soul-searching and trying to come to grips with why I have allowed myself to be verbally abused.  
During this time I had posted about an incident that occurred when my bf came into my home unannounced, and got into a yelling match with my daughter. She had stepped in to quiet him from yelling at me, and on it went.
Well word got to my son-not through my D- that this had taken place. I'm sure it was one of her friends who has a brother that my S is close to. My D would have confided this situation to her. So now I am completely painted black by my S and D. All I wanted was a peaceful Easter and now I am facing it alone. I really love my kids but can't have them tell me who I can or cannot be with. This is such a mess. Then I think that maybe it is just easier to get out of my r/s and try to move on. Clearly I am in a FOG on many levels. I just want everyone to leave me alone and understand that I have more than enough love to go around.
Any thoughts? Suggestions? I am at the end of my rope.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 09:19:16 AM »

Perhaps it would help to not see this as your children doing something to you- "painting you black" as deciding they don't want to be a part of this situation.

Your bf yelled at you- but he also got into a verbal match with your daughter. She may love you, but she also has the right to decide she doesn't want to be involved in this.

You are correct, your children don't have the right to decide who you wish to be involved with, but they do have the right to decide who they want to be involved with and if you and the bf are a package deal, they may not want any of it.

Yes, I understand that you wanted a peaceful Easter, but if being peaceful means tolerating a situation that is intolerable to them, they don't have to do it.

This reminds me of when I set boundaries on my BPD mother. My father said " I wish we could just be a happy family again" . But who was happy? Not me. His idea of a happy family was that my mother was happy because I allowed her to do anything she wanted- which included verbal and emotional abuse. This made him happy as if I was compliant with my mother, we could all be together with less conflict. However, nowhere in this picture was any consideration of whether or not I was happy. My father was in love with her, but I was not. I loved my father, but if my relationship with him was contingent on pretending that verbal abuse was OK, that was a difficult choice.

It is unfortunate that your relationship with your bf has resulted in this situation. However, you are still free to choose it. Your children are adults now, and they can also make their own choices about it.

It is understandable that you are not happy with this situation. I would be willing to bet that this is also hurtful to your children, no matter how old they are. But if you are asking that they ignore their own boundaries and values so you can be with your bf without any conflict with them, that may not be something they think is good to do.

I am truly sorry you are in this predicament. I know it is hurtful. I am aware that I created conflict for my father too, but I also had to honor my own boundaries, even if I really loved him and wanted to have a good relationship with him.
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 09:28:54 AM »

There are consequences to your choices. Your kids are also at the end of their rope. It's important information. They are entitled to their feelings about not being able to watch you be treated this way. It's healthy. They didn't get there overnight. They didn't jump to this position. As you've posted before, they watched you be treated poorly by their dad too. They may have reached a lifetime saturation limit of watching their mom be trampled and continue to participate.

You can be proud you raised kids who love and respect you and have a compass for what is and is not OK. They aren't wrong, from everything you've said.

I'd guess you aren't going to end your relationship for them. It may even make it harder for you to take decisive action re your relationship because at some level you may want to show them they're wrong or not give in to their view. When I've been in abusive situations I needed to end them for me, not because of anyone else's view. So I can see how their stance may not yield what they would like to see. At the same time, maybe they simply can no longer participate. People who love you do get to that point.

From "I truly love him," I take it your heart is in staying. (Not that we can't end relationships when we love someone, but declarations like that tend to mean we're not in that place.) I doubt you will leave because of your kids' stance. It doesn't sound like you want to leave for your own sake. That's a rock and a hard place; I'm sure it's painful and distressing. But your kids are not wrong. It may not be their job to "help" or they may feel it's their duty as your children to send you every message they can that they need not to see you be treated like that. They may have already embraced radical acceptance and see that he is going to continue treating you poorly--he is unlikely to change.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 09:32:37 AM »

Cross posted with Notwendy; what she said Smiling (click to insert in post)
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allienoah
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 10:47:47 AM »

Thank you both for your understanding. I am very proud of my kids for having set boundaries and loving me as they are. It is frustrating and maddening to me that for some reason that is not enough for me to end this r/s. I am at the point where I am gaining more sense of self, confidence and self-validation. I'm just not at the point yet to leave. I know he isn't going to change. I feel like I am going crazy that I logically know all of this yet seem impervious to the destruction around me as a result of being with him. This is one of those days I just want to curl up, tell everyone to leave me alone, and wallow. But I won't do that. I have to function, I have to address my issues and I have to continue to get stronger. It is just so hard.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 06:20:31 AM »

At least you know that- you are not ready to give up your relationship with your bf. When, and if, you are, you would start to take steps to do so. There is conflict with him and your kids- that is a tough situation. But it is good for the kids to respect their boundaries. They may feel in a double bind as well.

Until I experienced this kind of thing, I didn't know that these kinds of situations could split families, but they do. There are parents of children who married spouses with BPD and were then cut out of their child's life if they had concerns about the BPD spouse. For me it was to choose  my BPD mother's world view, or mine. People could not have both. It would make no sense. You either love her and ignore her behavior, or you don't condone her behavior ( even if you love her or not). The second view is not acceptable in her world.

After my father died, the family split according to these two views of her. I eventually had to just step away from people in her circle-and keep a cordial but distant relationship with them. I was very sad about this for a while, but I have come to accept that this is the way it is. I also have to accept the consequence of my choice- me, my boundaries, or people I love and wanted to have a relationship with. But to not choose my boundaries was not acceptable to me.

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allienoah
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 08:33:42 AM »

I understand. I have to respect that my kids are enforcing their boundaries. I just wish they wouldn't be so hostile about it. I certainly hear their wrath whenever his name is even mentioned. I am so sad this is splitting my family-I never in a million years would have thought that this is where I am now. My bf has honestly been trying very hard to recognize and address his behavior. He was very hurt when I finally had the strength to tell him he was a verbal abuser, and I was not tolerating one more episode from him. He looked at himself and was very upset that even though I got him upset, that he reacted like that. I honestly never expected him to take it like that. I was expecting the blame, rage, etc. that I have become accustomed to from him. Maybe the DBT is actually starting to sink in? I don't know.
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad water under the bridge with my kids and explaining to them that he has this issue is not the answer I feel.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 08:54:51 AM »

The thing is, there is always a reason for abusive behavior. There are reasons people become destructive of their relationships with others. It doesn't change whether the behavior is harmful.

Also, the remorse stage is a feature of abusive relationships. It makes it hard to end them. Intermittent reinforcement, malignant hope ... .There are many ways to understand why the fact that it isn't always terrible and there are sincere-sounding commitments to change make it hard to accept the likelihood that the behavior will continue.

It sounds like you are hoping he will change. That isn't generally a reasonable expectation. You can try to depersonalize, remove yourself, care less about what he says. I'm personally skeptical that this can fully insulate you and others from harm but it is a choice and strategy recommended on these boards so long as you continue in the relationship.

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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 09:33:26 AM »

Your kids may be more hostile than you feel is necessary, but their boundaries are good ones. Your children are still fairly young and probably don't really understand the complexity of relationships. It is good that they don't condone verbal abuse, but they may not have all the tools to express it in the way you wish they would.

As a teen and young person about their age, I hated my mother.

As an adult, having dealt with my own relationship, I realize that things are not so black or white, but as a young person, I didn't see all the nuances of people and relationships. I also was not aware of my father's role in the relationship and how co-dependency and enabling fit in. I don't feel hostility towards either of them, but I do have to have good boundaries with my mother.

All I saw as a kid your kids age was my father being a victim of my mother. That may be all your kids see too. However, even then, I knew that verbal abuse was not acceptable behavior in a relationship between any two people.

Your kids are probably behaving according to their age and experience. The good thing about their boundaries is that they hopefully will not tolerate verbal abuse in their own relationships.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2017, 09:39:10 AM »

You are already dealing with your bf the best you can, and the tools and lessons here are part of your solution.

In the short term, there might be one thing you can do with your children:

Make a sincere effort to connect with them and spend time with them when there is NO CHANCE your bf will be there, or intrude.

He can't be trusted to stay away from your home, so don't invite your children there.

Perhaps they will concede this much for you.
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2017, 09:54:06 AM »


I would add that trying to change your children's minds is unlikely to work.  I would suggest stopping or limiting talk with them about your r/s.  Even bigger suggestion is to up the amount of talk and action about your r/s with your children.  (what GK was saying)

It would appear that your kids have had some unpleasant dealings with your boyfriend.  I would be deliberate about thinking through what has actually happened and how YOU have addressed that with your children.  Please don't attempt to address this until you have thought it through and posted about it here.

Thoughts?  What can you do in the next week to nurture your r/s with your children? 

FF
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allienoah
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2017, 11:33:40 AM »

Very good suggestions. My D is coming for Easter even with all the turmoil. She just wants my bf to be nowhere around us. I have established with him that fact and will see him after my D leaves. My S on the other hand will not come home for the holiday. He feels I am betraying him by remaining with my bf. I have to respect this boundary even though it breaks my heart. He basically told me he is "gone".
My D knows I am working through my struggles with myself-being a caretaker, wishy-washy, etc. She is of the mind that as I get stronger I will dump my bf, so she just requires no contact with him.
I want to start a dialogue with them both, not to change their minds but to come to a workable way for us to progress as a family. They feel I have not been honest with them as I was always defending or deflecting for him. My credibility is in the toilet with both of them and I don't blame them.
I am trying to spend more one on one time with my D-she lives in the city and I live in a suburb. My S is away at school and due to graduate next month and move back home. That is going to be a challenge with the situation being what it is.
Any thoughts on how to begin a dialogue with 2 closed off people, respecting their boundary but not allowing them to bully me as well?
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2017, 11:58:36 AM »

Any thoughts on how to begin a dialogue with 2 closed off people, respecting their boundary but not allowing them to bully me as well?

I assume you are talking about your son and daughter here, and I'm going to address it that way.

First off, I don't really see them as bullying you, so if they are, please expand on that, and we can address it.

Second, what boundaries are you failing to respect here? With your daughter, the only way you'd be blasting through her boundary is if you tried to get her and your bf together. If HE shows up when he's unwelcome, he's blasting past both your boundary and hers... .you aren't doing it unless you invite him against your D's wishes. BTW, does bf still have a key to your place?

In fact, with your daughter, I think the best thing to do is thank her for her support and her patience with you in how you deal with bf.

With both your S and D, you can apologize for defending/deflecting/deceiving around your bf, and you can do better. BTW, doing better may include both being more truthful about bf's bad behavior, AND telling them you won't be discussing certain things, if you are unwilling/unable to discuss them honestly. Even that will improve your credibility.

Now, the tough one--correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say both these things? S is refusing to have anything to do with you because you are still with your bf, AND S is planning to come back and live with you in a ~month?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2017, 12:30:12 PM »

I hope that you are learning about the Karpman triangle.

If you have poor boundaries with your bf, it is likely that you also have poor boundaries with other people including your children. Even though they appear to have boundaries with your bf, it is also likely that they don't have the best boundaries either. I learned this from my own situation. We learn a lot from our FOO's and bring these traits into our relationships later. Families with poor boundaries tend to operate in the roles on the Karpman triangle. This was so much the norm in my FOO that I didn't know it wasn't a good thing to do. It was all I knew growing up.

Enabling, rescuing, blaming, taking victim role- all are part of this drama and all reflect poor boundaries.

I may have had better boundaries and was less of an enabler/rescuer than my father, but that was all relative to the situation. It was still dysfunctional. My mother was "victim" and also "persecutor" when she was in victim mode ( which is pretty much constant as far as I can see). My father was the enabler/rescuer for my mother. Somehow I stepped in as a rescuer/enabler to both of them, and naively stepped in to stand up for my father when he didn't stand up for himself.

This often backfired as when we tried to help, we became the bad guys, as the drama triangle often does. One example is that my mother wanted to have a very expensive family get away. My father began to fret to us (older )kids over the cost.  So, we kids stepped in to rescue him from her by refusing to attend. This immediately put us into persecutor mode with her. Suddenly the problem was not the cost, but us terrible children ruining her nice family get away. This rescued her from being the problem, rescued my father from standing up to her and put us in the persecutor position. My parents- with the problem between them solved by us. did not have to face their own issue. They could then join together with us as the bad guys. My mother could then turn to my father " those awful children" and he could step in as the good guy and rescue her.

We all played these roles without even being aware of them. It was how things worked in the family. When the focus was on us "terrible kids" my parents' focus was off their own issues. It stabilized the family in a way.

You know you have poor boundaries, but the source of them may be something so comfortable, so much a habit, that they feel natural to you. I am not being critical of you as I had to work on boundaries and not getting into the drama triangle myself. It was not my business to intervene in my parents' relationship. It isn't your kids' business either, but if this kind of thing is a part of their upbringing then this is all they know to do. Can you also see that when they do step in to "rescue " you from your BF- you are angry at them? They become the bad guys causing issues between you and your BF. They become the bullies, not your BF. This takes the focus off the issues between the two of you.

When they point out issues with your BF, your tendency is to "rescue" him by defending him. " he isn't that bad".  Your BF can play the triangle with the kids and say they are causing the issues between the two of you. This takes the focus off him or you.

The way to help with all of this is to work on your own boundaries, any tendencies to rescue/enable and to be aware of the Karpman triangle at play in your situation.

If your son comes home to live with you, he will be home as an adult. It is important that he understand both boundaries and responsibility. T

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allienoah
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2017, 12:38:20 PM »

You're right Greykitty, they aren't bullying me, they are simply enforcing boundaries.
I am taking on a victim role when I say that. My bad. And yes I am enforcing my D's boundaries and respecting them. No bf no longer has a key... .I changed locks.

Yes it is contradictory with my son... .he wants nothing to do with me--yet when he graduates he is due to move back home. Now he claims he won't do that but I can't see how he'll afford to live elsewhere-him and his dog-I believe he will have no choice. I feel fairly certain he'll have to be with me... .and that's fine.
I will attempt to have a conversation with them both regarding my Defending/deflecting/and deceiving. I have a huge apology to make and lots of trust to rebuild.
I can't believe the manner in which I have screwed this up while acting in the haze of the love bombing and then becoming so defensive with everything. I feel like I am drowning in quicksand.


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allienoah
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2017, 12:46:39 PM »

You know you have poor boundaries, but the source of them may be something so comfortable, so much a habit, that they feel natural to you. I am not being critical of you as I had to work on boundaries and not getting into the drama triangle myself. It was not my business to intervene in my parents' relationship. It isn't your kids' business either, but if this kind of thing is a part of their upbringing then this is all they know to do. Can you also see that when they do step in to "rescue " you from your BF- you are angry at them? They become the bad guys causing issues between you and your BF. They become the bullies, not your BF. This takes the focus off the issues between the two of you.

When they point out issues with your BF, your tendency is to "rescue" him by defending him. " he isn't that bad".  Your BF can play the triangle with the kids and say they are causing the issues between the two of you. This takes the focus off him or you.

The way to help with all of this is to work on your own boundaries, any tendencies to rescue/enable and to be aware of the Karpman triangle at play in your situation.

If your son comes home to live with you, he will be home as an adult. It is important that he understand both boundaries and responsibility. T


@notwendy-thank you for explaining what is going on here in such a manner that I can see this vicious triangle for what it is. Yes I am playing victim when my kids attack r/s, then I DO defend bf, and my bf blames kids so his bad behavior is hidden.
Wow what a dynamic! Now to try to break the cycle. So I have to be careful to set and enforce my boundaries, try not to enable or caretake, and be strong while doing it. I tend to take everything personally.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 01:27:00 PM »

Yes I am playing victim when my kids attack r/s, then I DO defend bf, and my bf blames kids so his bad behavior is hidden.
Wow what a dynamic! Now to try to break the cycle.

Try something new:

Kid(s) attack bf or r/s.

You respond to kid with: "Please don't talk about bf like that. It gives me the urge to defend him, and me defending him is the last thing either you or I want right now. You aren't telling me anything I haven't heard several times already. (last part assuming that it is indeed an old, repeated criticism, whether valid or invalid)"
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2017, 01:53:04 PM »


The best way to approach things with two "closed off" people is to "do" healthy boundaries with them.

Hoping I got the gist of your question correct.

So... .let's take your son's situation.  Let him know that you are proud of him for graduating school (is that the life event that is happening?) and also proud of him for striking out on his own.  Express confidence that he will be able to work hard and figure it out.

No reason at all to engage in his "reasons".  He can have his reasons and you have yours. 

Continue to invite him to family events (without your BF present) and if he comes... .celebrate.  If he decides not to come... .express sadness and enjoy the event without him. 


FF
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2017, 02:57:12 PM »

Allienoah again I deeply relate to your situation so I wanted to chime in.

Your children may not be bullying you and they most definitely have good intentions but what they are doing is a form of control. Ive been in your situation twice with my mother who lives with me and has access to way too much information on my personal life and relationships. I just want to share with you how I dealt with it because it actually ended up working out for me. I didnt model it on anything like the tools or Karpman Triangle or anything (although I definitely see that dynamic in your story and mine now that I know about Karpman) its just something that worked out for me personally so I wanted to share it.

First of all I should say the controlling gets so bad that she has yelled, called my friends to try to get them to persuade me and since this started happening right after I let her move into my house its generally made my life miserable not to mention how disruptive it has been to my then r/s and the one Im in now with a pwBPD.

In my last r/s the pushing and even manipulation was relentless for several months and I was at my wits end plus thoroughly confused. At some point I just started describing to her how I felt and that when she acted that way effectively she was pushing me towards my then bf even when I was feeling unhappy in the r/s. That automatically made her pause because she didnt want that. I then told her how being in this constant state of feeling torn and pulled in many directions was making me foggy and unable to make up my mind about staying or leaving. That eroded my r/s and undermined my bf's trust and prolonged a really painful period in our lives. Once she understood this she became more neutral even supportive about it and I finally got the time, space and peace I needed to make a decision.

In my r/s with pwBPD she has been equally if not more controlling. What I have done this time around and gradually was to share with her some of what Im learning about BPD and try to relay the info in a non-judgmental and compassionate way. I wouldnt do it if she didnt already know too much about us but I figure given the circumstances its too late to go back and this seems to be helping. Her attitude has changed. She has stopped trying to control me and she even thanked me for filling her in on BPD the other day. She said her mind was more at ease and she didnt worry as much.

It sounds to me like your kids are already adults and not living with you anymore. Did I get that right? If so and IMO they do not have any right to dictate who you are in a r/s with at this point. They are going to have all kinds of feelings and opinions about it and you cant avoid that. Its very understandable that they worry about you but that doesnt give them the right to control you. They are also probably going to settle down and back off a bit once you make up your mind about staying or leaving.
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 07:45:23 AM »

I agree that co-dependency, rescuing, enabling are all forms of control. I think it is important to look at boundaries here as well. Stating " I am uncomfortable being around you and your BF because of his behavior" is stating a personal boundary- this is about the person speaking. Crossing the line into someone else's boundary- calling their friends, manipulating, being relentless- is crossing a boundary line.

Discussing someone else's relationship is possibly a form of rescuing/control, but I also think there is a difference between speaking your feelings and taking the action beyond that into the other person's life.

A grown person can date whoever they wish to. It isn't anyone else's business or choice. On the other side, if someone you care about is in a relationship and you witness their partner being verbally abusive, it creates a dilemma- say something or not? A concerned person may choose to say something- express his/her feelings about it. Even if they have no right to say that- the person in the relationship has the choice to reply " I choose to date this person regardless". The concerned person has the choice to accept it, or stay away from a situation that is uncomfortable for them.

I think it helps to put these things in context. Also consider the background of the people doing the controlling. When we grow up in families where these patterns are a part of family life- they do feel normal. It took some personal work on boundaries to learn appropriate ones. I can speak about myself " I don't like this" is speaking about me. Telling someone " you need to do this" is stepping over the line. I didn't know this in my 20's. I learned it later.

People all around us have different boundaries. The best way I learned to deal with this was to work on mine and to be more considerate of other people's.



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« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 01:09:10 PM »

I realize that my kids are enforcing their own boundaries. I respect that and have to deal with it. It was very painful to have my son refuse to spend any time with me for the holiday. My daughter did but it was very somber and low-key. And was my holiday peaceful even with the acceptance I showed? No. My kids were fine. We all know where we stand. My bf on the other hand, had given me space and respect all weekend. I was very appreciative of this. However, when I joined him for his family dinner yesterday, I told him that I was allowing my daughter to spend the night and stay tonight as well so she could finish packing up her clothes after work. That of course brought on another round of "how could you let her stay when I am not permitted to be with you in the house". I told him I very clearly could imagine that he was disappointed that it would be 2 more nights, but I felt it was the best thing to do in lieu of the circumstances. I am not trying to make things worse. He got so steamed at me that he asked me to leave Easter dinner! I did so with grace, making the excuse that I was needed at home. I left and was barraged with screaming voice messages all the way home.
I did not reply. He called again at 1:30am to demand that I tell my D he was coming over tonight and it's too bad. I ignored this. He lambasted me again today for "letting the tail wag the dog" and over and over. I didn't JADE at all, and frankly it was pretty embarrassing to me to be asked to leave dinner as a result of his dramatic reaction. To add to this whole mess, my D told my ex about my bf yelling at her, and he advised her to call the cops if bf ever did it again, and sent me a bunch of texts about how I need to kick bf to the curb.
I honestly feel like I am frozen and life is spinning out of control.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 06:10:59 PM »

Ugh, the way your bf handled Easter dinner really sucked. Especially blowing up your phone and making threats after.  Good for you that you left when you did.

To add to this whole mess, my D told my ex about my bf yelling at her, and he advised her to call the cops if bf ever did it again, and sent me a bunch of texts about how I need to kick bf to the curb.

A few good boundary reminders / triangulation warnings on this:

If your bf yells at your D, it is her choice to call police; let her make that choice.

Your D talking to your ex (her dad, I presume) about your bf: UGH, more triangulation.

How close are you with your ex? I'm assuming that you are kinda-sorta-civil and are coparenting, but there is a reason he is an ex. Even if you are close, What the heck is he doing texting you to kick your bf to the curb?
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allienoah
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2017, 08:57:26 AM »

My relationship with my ex is such that if he feels I am "doing the right thing" by my kids, and leaving bf -he acts like my best friend. He would honestly do anything for me. He is very narcissistic and fancies himself as the white knight. He sees me as very weak with this, while at the same time telling me he can't believe how strong I used to be in the past-he does credit me with holding the family together.
Anyway, I really don't need his commentary on this issue. Unfortunately the triangulation is in full force. It is extremely hurtful when he throws out comments like"my gf would NEVER stay with a guy that didn't get along with her kid" and on and on. Yes there is a reason he is my ex.
I have taken a "time out" from all of the emotionally charged situations for now. I am not going out of my way to appease or console my bf for his feeling like he does. I honestly don't think it is too much to ask for him to give me a night or two away from him and spend them with my daughter. Truth be told if I stay with him, she is going to back off also. That's just the way it is, as hurtful as it is. Bf is actually pulling away a bit too, which is fine with me right now. I recognize it as part of the push/pull dynamic and refuse to engage.
Easter was a nightmare, and now even if we stay together, I am mortified to see his family again. They know how he acts-he apparently left dinner 10 minutes after me (leaving his kids there!) -but they don't see it as a mental condition. Their stance is that he was so broken after his divorce-he claims his ex verbally abused him- I think otherwise. So they are just angry at him for leaving and I am sure I come into part of the blame for that.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2017, 11:03:57 AM »

Anyway, I really don't need his commentary on this issue.

Seems like you could enforce that as a boundary with him. "I don't want to hear from you what I should or shouldn't do about my bf. It isn't your business."

Excerpt
I have taken a "time out" from all of the emotionally charged situations for now.

Excellent idea, especially your ex!

Excerpt
I am not going out of my way to appease or console my bf for his feeling like he does. I honestly don't think it is too much to ask for him to give me a night or two away from him and spend them with my daughter.

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Agree, although you understated it a bit there--it is completely reasonable for you to want to spend a night or two with your daughter and away from him. OTOH, his behavior surrounding this isn't even close to reasonable!


Excerpt
if we stay together, I am mortified to see his family again. They know how he acts-he apparently left dinner 10 minutes after me (leaving his kids there!) -but they don't see it as a mental condition. Their stance is that he was so broken after his divorce-he claims his ex verbally abused him

Ugh, sounds like lots of dysfunction in his family. And my guess is that he and his ex got into verbal fights, and both sides behaved quite badly. Whether he or she actually instigated would be really hard to say... .but either way, he's a bit of a mess, and his family is well matched.



How are you taking care of yourself as you take some space from the insanity and triangulation?
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allienoah
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2017, 11:43:59 AM »

I appreciate your enforcing that I am not being unreasonable. I swear some days I feel like I am the cold, unreasonable one, with too many demands and conditions. I actually start to believe bf's nonsense!
Anyway, I have been spending time alone, reading-"Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway" is an excellent book to build up yourself. I do my crossword puzzles, watch baseball and hockey, talk with/see my friends and sometimes watch mindless TV!
I have no doubt in my mind that he argued/devalued/had unrealistic demands in his r/s with his ex. She sounds just like him to be honest, so that must've been some situation.
However, he uses that to "love bomb" me. She's completely painted black to him and I "brought sunshine back into his life". Yes I did-until I didn't.
I am keeping a low profile with my S and D to get my head together.
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allienoah
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2017, 11:49:41 AM »

Let me also ask this question as I am doubting myself terribly with all the confusion he brings-

If my D does not want to be in his presence, and I have her stay with me 1-2 nights per week, is bf justified in any way at all by telling me that this is disrespecting HIM? That he wants NO restrictions whatsoever and this is a restriction I am putting on him. That he has earned the right to always be there, as we have been together 4 years? That because at one time we were talking about moving in together, he should be treated as if he lives there and as a resident, should always be welcome? That my daughter is always welcome but she can't tell me that he can't be there? I feel that this is my house and that is her boundary that I am accepting.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2017, 12:41:33 PM »

If my D does not want to be in his presence, and I have her stay with me 1-2 nights per week, is bf justified in any way at all by telling me that this is disrespecting HIM?

You are acting against his wishes and demands, you are enforcing boundaries against him, and he DOESN'T LIKE IT. He won't like it, because he isn't getting what he wants when you do this.

And yes, he can describe it as disrespecting him.

That said, how you feel about him, whether you respect him is something in your mind. He cannot read your mind, and if he's telling you how you feel about him, that is some of the worst boundary busting mind messing behavior out there.

And even so, is it your job to respect him? Or is it his job to earn your respect?

It is your house. He's not respecting that.

You asked him to stay away. He didn't respect that. First he violated it by showing up (and yelling at your D) anyways. Since then, he didn't actually show up, but he blew up your phone when you told him to stay away, which still isn't respecting your wishes!

Next time he says "You aren't respecting me", you might try agreeing, and stating that he hasn't earned your respect in this regard.

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allienoah
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2017, 02:56:48 PM »

You are acting against his wishes and demands, you are enforcing boundaries against him, and he DOESN'T LIKE IT. He won't like it, because he isn't getting what he wants when you do this.

And yes, he can describe it as disrespecting him.

That said, how you feel about him, whether you respect him is something in your mind. He cannot read your mind, and if he's telling you how you feel about him, that is some of the worst boundary busting mind messing behavior out there.


Next time he says "You aren't respecting me", you might try agreeing, and stating that he hasn't earned your respect in this regard.



Well amen to that! He hasn't at all. Yet I can tell you he believes he has earned it with being with me for 4 years. He has clearly stated that. He honestly told me he feels he has "gone above and beyond" to understand my situation. One which, by the way, he helped to create with his crazy-making behavior. And I know it is the nature of pwBPD to deflect, and take no ownership of their own bad behavior. I am the bad guy who "created" this issue, or that issue, or any issue that exists.
But yes, I see that he is completely boundary busting and mind messing with me. Thank you for your clear guidance in this situation! I really feel like I am going mad sometimes!
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flourdust
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2017, 03:01:48 PM »

A little perspective from outside the relationship... .

He's an adult. You're an adult. You're partners, of a sort.

Partners should be considerate of each other. Partners are not subservient to each other.

He's throwing out a lot of FOG ... .but his demands look more like he wants subservience, not consideration.

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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2017, 07:47:50 PM »

But yes, I see that he is completely boundary busting and mind messing with me. Thank you for your clear guidance in this situation! I really feel like I am going mad sometimes!

Hold tight to your own truths, your own reality, your own experiences, even when he presents something different. Yes, you should listen to and consider others, but don't discount yourself!

Especially when he sounds so certain, and you just have some nagging quiet uncomfortable feeling that seems so small in comparison!
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