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Author Topic: How can I respond to this text?  (Read 519 times)
byfaith
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« on: April 20, 2017, 03:03:11 PM »

I know this is the Conflicted or deciding board... .going through divorce, still in the same house with her. She is trying to put me into FOG with this statement.

Her: someone divorced me once because they did not want me anymore because of who I was and who I wasn't... .it's happening again

she was married 5 times before me

I don't know how to respond to this. Her feelings are real. I feel for her. I don't want to cave here. Her statement may be true for one of her prior marriages but that is not true in this marriage.

would this be acceptable?

Me: I understand this is a difficult time for you and I hate that you feel this way.

is that sufficient? is that cold? I love this woman but I cannot remain married to her
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 03:28:22 PM »

another text

her:
For better or worse. Till death do us part. Let no man put asunder.  

I am not trying to convince you to stay with me,   Why should I want to if you decided you would rather have somebody/something else?
But, why are you choosing to break your vows? If God can forgive us of things that we do or don't do that are wrong then who are you not to forgive me? I would've never married you that night if I would've known you didn't mean what you were saying.
Once again (my son) and I will be back out in the world on our own.
When someone got rid of us before, they were not a Christian, in fact very evil. But you are a Christian. (byfaith), what makes you any different than him by discarding me just because you don't prefer me anymore?
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 03:37:10 PM »

This is FOG.
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 04:04:42 PM »

I often see messages here about how to respond to texts.  I am old school, and think that texting belongs in topics like meeting a flight at the airport, grocery lists, saying "Hi."  Anything relational should be in person, or in a more thoughtful e-mail, or phone. 

So, my automatic response to an inquiry about texts is "no response is required."

That said, I get texts from my wife that I suspect are intended to dig up FOG, or put some pressure on the blackmail, or instigate some contact.  I wait before responding if at all, and then only with a brief and supportive thing like "Thanks for letting me know."  "I'm sorry, that must feel really bad."  or something that's sort of validating from a safe distance.
 
If pressed later, you can lie and say the phone was charging, didn't get the text, or an honest, "I hear you, and I'm thinking about it still."  Which is just deafening to the unstable person.

No response is required unless, and until you're comfortable with it.
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 04:06:03 PM »

I guess there is nothing to say. Just turn on the FOG lights and just drive slow, don't engage in it.
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 04:06:59 PM »

This is highly judgmental, and does not fit maybe, but, I often view someone putting their soul into a text message as a cowardly act.
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 04:25:47 PM »

got another one, anyway good reason to head to the gym after work. Never thought of it as cowardly, very possible. My thought is, in the case with my wife, she loves the way she writes and it's in your face and you "have to" deal with what she wrote.

her:
Let me know when you are headed this way. Having a bad day and just got back again and will go to my room. Not really wanting company and I would assume you don't either after the texts that I sent. if you actually did read them. Anyway, whatever housework that needs to be done and has not been done is it because someone else didn't do it or I don't care to. This is in no way meant to be mean spirited.

Please acknowledge with an OK?

Me: Ok

sigh!

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 04:37:51 PM »

would this be acceptable?

Me: I understand this is a difficult time for you and I hate that you feel this way.

I think it's really a really warm response.

I understand this is a difficult time for you and I hate that you feel this way.
  or even
I know this is a difficult time for you and I hate hurting you this way. You are right, I am breaking my vows. I've let you down. I've let myself down, too. Your question will be on my mind for years, I'm sure. (example only)

That latter owns it.

Sometimes it helps to fully acknowledge what someone is trying to say so they know they are heard and they stop trying to get the message through to you.

Nothing is going to make this easy for her. You can however, set a goal to not make it worse or be cruel or cold.

I love this woman but I cannot remain married to her

If you love her, do what you can do to release with grace. Just be very careful with your words (which is very easy by text) to not waiver or be ambiguous. I chose those words above carefully.
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 05:22:47 PM »



I had an initial reaction which was to send something like this...

"If you want to know my reasons, let's find time to talk privately.  Would xyz time work?"  (sort of a mind reading defense and putting it back in her court)    However, this is a boundary type thing, which I'm not sure applies if you are ending it.




I know this is a difficult time for you and I hate hurting you this way. You are right, I am breaking my vows. I've let you down. I've let myself down, too. Your question will be on my mind for years, I'm sure. (example only)

 


My next thought.  Who is ending it?  She filed but didn't serve them... correct?  My only issue with the text above (Skip's) is that it potentially owns something you shouldn't own.

If you have "taken over" and filed and served yourself, then I'm much more of a fan of Skip's version.

ff version (with what I know and assume now)
"I'm sure you would agree the hurt between us is difficult.  I'm asking myself many of the same questions and pray for God's wisdom and grace for this new season in life."

There is a basic thing I'm acknowledging... .that this sucks and hurts.  Communicating the questions are good ones and that God's wisdom and grace will help each of you.  I'm being deliberate about not owning anything and also not trying to "force" her to own anything.

Thoughts?

FF



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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 06:08:07 PM »

I think this is superb:

"I'm sure you would agree the hurt between us is difficult.  I'm asking myself many of the same questions and pray for God's wisdom and grace for this new season in life."

Could this very message also serve as your mantra / "broken record" statement, as you wend your way through the many steps of separation?

(Having read most of your postings here, I must say I recoil from the idea of you even appearing to atone for fault in this marriage. Just my opinion, but the word "unseemly" comes to me. And I wonder if later, much later--"out of the fog" later--you might regret having appeared to give such a message. You've been so poorly used in this marriage.)
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 08:58:49 PM »

My impression is that: Forgiveness isn't the issue; repentance and reconciliation is.

I'm not sure that I would admit to breaking your vows because I'm not sure that you are. My husband tries to use my Christianity to make me feel guilty and draw me back into the drama triangle.
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 09:27:38 PM »

I'm in the camp of not sending emotionally charged texts as well.

What don't I see in this text? No sense of responsibility for her part in this ,no remorse, and actually no love.

There is no " I love you honey and I am sad that we are splitting".

I see blame and I see her trying to make this decision about something trivial: you broke your vows, you are evil, you are leaving because you don't "prefer" me?


Really, I think it is a lot more than preference here in your decision. It's about a lot of big issues. Not sure I know how to respond to this as it isn't close to your reality.


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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 09:45:31 PM »

My impression is that: Forgiveness isn't the issue; repentance and reconciliation is.

This may very well be true. I would expect it.

I'm not sure that I would admit to breaking your vows because I'm not sure that you are. My husband tries to use my Christianity to make me feel guilty and draw me back into the drama triangle.

I've had the fortune to work with Karpman and the one thing he would say here is that "our need to be right" is what creates dramas. Is he breaking his vows? Of course he is breaking his vows. It doesn't change because she started it. We can't be afraid to not be right. If we are we will be in endless dramas. I say this all in a general sense. This is not aimed at anyone here.

byfaith has lots of great options here, hopefully on will feel right to him.
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 06:35:46 AM »

I agree that the need to be right can draw us into all kinds of unwanted drama.

But this is different than making a thought out decision about what is personally the right thing to do in ones circumstances.

Yes, a vow is a vow, and ByFaith is breaking one of those marriage vows, but there are several marriage vows, many that he did not break.

Are there limits to these vows? These are vows we make to another person. But do these negate the vows we make to ourselves? Are we obligated to stay in situations that are truly harmful to our own personal well being - emotional or physical ?

This isn't a one person is right one is wrong issue. Surely both people have contributed to the issues. One of them is that ByFaith has kept his marriage vow to been faithful for years in a sexless marriage for years even though both he and his wife are healthy enough and physically capable- not by his choice but by hers. Without taking a right wrong stance- she has a right to choose celibacy but does she have the right to subject a husband to this? ByFaith didn't choose this. So his choice seems to be either celibacy or breaking at least one marriage vow.

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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 07:43:02 AM »

  and ByFaith is breaking one of those marriage vows

Which one?

I can potentially see this if Byfaith has "initiated" the divorce.  I don't think that has been made clear.

Last I knew for sure he wife had filed but hadn't served him.

FF
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 07:44:00 AM »

Yes, a vow is a vow, and ByFaith is breaking one of those marriage vows, but there are several marriage vows, many that he did not break.

Are there limits to these vows? These are vows we make to another person. But do these negate the vows we make to ourselves? Are we obligated to stay in situations that are truly harmful to our own personal well being - emotional or physical ?

Hey guys, I might content that this is exactly the type of "need to be right" mentality that Karpman warns us about that constantly draws drama into our life.

In ByFaith's situation, he is looking for comforting words to defuse some of his wife's anxiety. That is the primary objective. Rather than just serve that up, several of us here have gone on "right/wrong" tangents - some arguing that her text is worded poorly, some arguing the text is wrong venue, some invoking FOG warnings, some are parsing words (It depends on what "is" is ~ Bill Clinton)... .

Think about a politician or CEO that stands before us parsing words about what he did, and how it inflames drama.  Recently we all watched a passenger get manhandled and dragged off of a commercial airline because the airline overbooked a flight. We then watch the CEO say that the airline was right and start parsing wordings (customer was re-accommodated). That created a world wide drama because he was telling us the airline was right.

Replay that entire event, only have the CEO says, "It's my fault. We have rules that didn't allow the gate agent to offer enough money to buy a passenger off that flight, and we evoked the tools required to deal with terrorist and violated this innocent passenger. We have change the rules. We have given this man _______. It will never happen again."

It would have ended there.

ByFaith's wife is in a heightened emotional state because she is facing divorce. It doesn't matter how she got there, 1,000 other women would be emotional, too. Divorce is one of the highest listed stresser we face as adults.

If ByFaith want to cut down the drama in this divorce, he will be well served to take blame, absorb some shots, defuse some drama. Its only important that he keep his eye on the ball (exiting the relationship, financial fairness, custody fairness).

Or he can be like that high profile politician who famously takes everything personally, always needs to be right, and lives in a constant state of drama.

You're right, I'm breaking my vows, ends that discussion. Why did she use a text message? Did she break the vow first? This is FOG, I will give her silent treatment on her text. This staments will spark drama.

One of the important point of the drama triangle is that we adopt the roles because they have become second nature to us. Drama will leave our life, when we let go of the often tangential issue of being right.

Disclaimer: My comments are general... .I'm not lobbying for any particular action for ByFaith.
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 07:58:32 AM »

Thanks Skip, as always you bring a stable voice.
I would advocate that stillness and not responding  to content that I personally can't see handled via text is not silent treatment nor undue ignorance.  We each have to handle things our own way.  I think part of ByFaith's post was asking how to respond because he felt obligated to do so, not necessarily because he wanted to better things.

I realized how many times I had been conditioned to jump in the drama triangle and I learned from that.  I am much more mindful and learned that no response if often better and more true to my self.  But, to each his own.  I want ByFaith to find peace in his approach.
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 08:14:30 AM »

Ouch! As long as you keep heading resolutely for the exit on this ill-fated flight, and don't stick around for further bruising and concussing, you'll get there, byfaith. (Hope you don't feel the need to respond to too many more accusations, though.)
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 08:25:52 AM »

Thanks Skip, as always you bring a stable voice.
I would advocate that stillness and not responding to content that I personally can't see handled via text is not silent treatment nor undue ignorance.  

Yeah, I hear you. I have opted with my current SO at times to respond with, hey let's talk about this face to face, dinner OK?  

I agree with you that there are times when slow response rates, or even ignoring a direct communication is wise.  It makes sense when someone is dysregulating that we do not get drawn into a quagmire of text bombing back and forth. It's often best to answer once. The second time to say, I think I answered this, but if you want to talk about it later, OK. And then opt out.

But you're saying 1) I don't not handle this type of communication by text (boundary) and 2) I communicate this boundary by passively ignoring the other person.

If you truly had a long standing value of never responding to anything other than logistics via text, then its routine to ignore - no biggy. It's a very different story if suddenly you are changing the norm of the relationship.  In the latter it's silent treatment. Fair?

If you want to establish something new - a "no talk zone" - then its really incumbent on you to explain this. There is nothing unusual about someone asking a deeply person question by text and its reasonable that they would expect an answer. There is also nothing unusual for someone to say I'd rather do this by email. Fair?
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 01:09:22 PM »

Just to clarify- I don't think my comments are good responses to the text. They would create drama. I meant them to comment on the statement about ByFaith not being a good or moral person ( by the wife). I think it is because of his devotion to his faith that he personally struggled to keep his vows in a celibate marriage. Someone without such values may not have. I am certain his wife is having difficulty too.
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« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 01:53:04 PM »

as far as who initiated this... .my wife did file and she sat on it for over 2 months I am the one who told her to proceed (told her this on 4/8) so yes she initiated by filing and I finally had enough and told her to go ahead.

Still have not been served

so yes I am breaking a vow to not stay married, ok I own that.

The other side of this: just because she didn't want a divorce doesn't mean she hasn't broken her vows continuously throughout the marriage. She likes to quote me the "for better or worse" part of the vows but she leaves out to "have and to hold" and to "love and to cherish" I think there was an "obey" in there also  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am not going to tell her she has broken her vows to me, at least I don't want to tell her that. The first time she asked me "so you are going to break your vows that you made before God?" I just said I guess I am or something to that effect. I just said "we don't work" I didn't attempt to lay blame.

 
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« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 02:01:28 PM »


You would think there is a way your attorney can go down and "get served" or "accept service".  Perhaps you can.

The details matter (IMO), byfaith should not "admit" he broke his wedding vows.  I don't see where he did.

Just as importantly he should not try to convince his wife that she did break them.

Getting into a debate about being right or wrong is (IMO) fueling drama.  Sticking to owning what you actually did is not... (IMO)

FF
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2017, 02:09:47 PM »

byfaith, why not just file for divorce yourself?

Tell a lawyer you want a very simple (cheap) filing that only states irreconcilable differences. You can amend later if need be.

The other side of this: just because she didn't want a divorce doesn't mean she hasn't broken her vows continuously throughout the marriage. She likes to quote me the "for better or worse" part of the vows but she leaves out to "have and to hold" and to "love and to cherish" I think there was an "obey" in there also  Smiling (click to insert in post)

There is a great song by the Cranberries, "There's no need to argue anymore."  It sounds like a funeral hymn. It's a very clever piece - it drives home the point that once you decide to leave, the best thing you can do is grieve the death of the relationship. Whatever she did, it doesn't matter anymore. It's lifting to let it go.
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2017, 02:16:47 PM »

it must be different in each state. I asked him about me filing he told me we can't since she filed. The clerk has to call him to have him accept service.
If I don't get served by the end of next week 4/28 I will be filing.

This time around (this is my second marriage) I want to deal with it properly. I am going through a grieving process, strange as that may sound. She is funny and witty and has some good attributes but the bad has outweighed to good. There are some people that are going to be exiting my life (her family) that I had become fond of and that hurts really bad.

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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2017, 02:20:44 PM »

it must be different in each state. I asked him about me filing he told me we can't since she filed. The clerk has to call him to have him accept service.
If I don't get served by the end of next week 4/28 I will be filing.

Not to play armchair lawyer, but if the matter has been filed and has a file number, your attorney should be able to file an answer to it and get the process rolling. He should also be able to get someone to give him a copy.
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 02:28:45 PM »

 The clerk has to call him to have him accept service.

Sorry for a bit of a hijack of the main point of this post... .but this service issue seems solvable.

I would think he could stroll into the clerks office.  Have her look up the file and sign off of acceptance of service.  

True... .there could be some nuance from state to state.  I worked in a courthouse next to clerks office for a couple years.  Sometimes service was complicated and other times it was easy.  The basic gist of it is that the court can prove that you "know" about the legal action filed against you.

Your signature in person in the clerks office would seem to be the best there is.  

Since money is an issue, I would think you could do it.  Can you send this to your attorney?

"Can I show up in person in the clerks office and accept service of the divorce filing?"  

also

":)o you have the case number?"

I would think that you show up with your id, the case number, full names of all parties and if there is a filing they should be able to find it.  

Service doesn't mean you agree or disagree with the legal action, it means you are aware.

OK... .I feel better.  Hijack over...   Smiling (click to insert in post)

FF
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2017, 02:44:50 PM »

ok here is what I got from him last week

I sent this email to him
I believe she has 90 days from the date that she filed (jan 31) to have me served. She may be drawing this out. How long do you think I should wait? Maybe I should file instead of her? Would that benefit me in any way?
Her attorney has the papers I called the chancery court today. I know a check was cashed for $75 for a serving fee. Maybe I am being impatient.

his response to me:
Yes she has 90 days. No we aren't in a position to file, she has. No advantage if we could. Yes you are being impatient and wasting money.

yesterday he sent me this: BUMP
In anticipation of you being severed I prepared your Answer and Counter-Complaint yesterday. During the process I reviewed the referenced documents and discovered that your ex-wife’s deed to you was to ( by faiths name), a married man. This language created an estate by the entireties thus providing (by faiths wife) a one half undivided interest in the property. ( by faiths wife) did sign the Trust Deed

to me no biggie, I am ready to move on from this house even if I lose equity. I am going to guess we will go to mediation and then from there let the judge make his decision

this lawyer has been in practice for 40 some years so I am just following his lead
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2017, 03:21:10 PM »



Uh oh... .FF back with another hijack.

Back to the questions I proposed you send.  Seriously... .get those answered.

Sometimes broad questions are good... .I think those are very precise.  Can I stroll in and accept service?

I'll add another one.  "Is there a downside to me doing so... from a legal standpoint?"

Listen... if she want's to stall, she can.  That's a bit of a different matter.

You accepting service just "ticks off" a check block and allows you L to do and file other things. 

FF
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