Working Through The Decision Process

[WitzEndWife]

BPD certainly puts the non-BPD partner in a pickle, doesn't it? While exhausted from your home life being a "war zone," for which you're on constant alert, you're supposed to take the time to take care of yourself, AND decide with a clear head whether or not this relationship is worth all of this stress, anxiety, and drama.

That's where I am. I have moments of semi clear-headedness these days, in which I think, "Okay, this is not worth it for me, and I could have a much better life being alone." But then I think, "H is doing therapy, and he seems earnest in wanting to find work. And he seems as though he really does love me. Maybe this can work. Maybe I just need to give this a chance?"

Can I throw a pro/con list up here?

Pros: He can be very loving and supportive when he's not dysregulating, he takes great care of our cars and is very dedicated to doing that, he's very smart and articulate on a wide range of topics, he and I enjoy doing things together (hiking, going to restaurants, going to art shows and museums, going to see music, cycling, etc.). He has a very loving heart and can be very sensitive, he's in therapy and he says he is going to register for real estate classes and get a job. He loves my dog and takes good care of her.

Cons: He's often abusive to me and my family, calling us names, cursing at us, he's often rude to my friends and sometimes to complete strangers (I never know which person I'm taking to meet people, which leaves me hesitant to have him meet anyone), he often has depressive episodes that leave him in bed for days or weeks at a time, he has expensive taste and spends more money on things than he should, he does not work and I'm wondering if he will ever work, he has extremely low self-esteem, when he is depressed, he has poor hygiene (which grosses me out), my family does not like him because of his rudeness and bullying, his politics and values are often different from mine, he believes in conspiracy theories, he's clingy and needy quite often, and he's not reliable for most consistent responsibilities.

It helps in any case to put these out there. Thanks in advance for letting me do that here!

[formflier]

Great job on the list.

FF is going to hand out two homework assignments!     

Take the pro list.  Split that up and for each of the pro items that you have listed, put down how you can show appreciation and encourage him to do more. 

Take the con list.  Split that up and for each of the con items put down some ideas of how YOU can structure boundaries to isolate those "cons" from affecting YOU.

This is about you and YOUR "inputs" to the r/s.

Can you post those answers here?

FF

[formflier]

an additional thought/questions... .for after your homework!     

Do you know any realtors?  Are you familiar with what they do?

Do you believe your husband would be a good one?

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hey WEW,   Let's zero in on what you wrote:

 

He's often abusive to me and my family, calling us names, cursing at us, he's often rude to my friends and sometimes to complete strangers (I never know which person I'm taking to meet people, which leaves me hesitant to have him meet anyone).

That doesn't sound encouraging.  No wonder your family

does not like him because of his rudeness and bullying.

Yet something keeps you in the r/s.  What is it?  Worth thinking about.

LuckyJim

[flourdust]

Just a note to remember that pros and cons do not cancel either other out or have equal weight.

If he's a lovely dinner date three nights/week, that doesn't balance out three nights/week being abusive. Part of your process can be figuring out what things are simply not acceptable, and what things are just not important (on either side of the equation).

[babyoctopus]

Really Look at the list.   Are you putting up with abuse, isolation and neglect to go hiking with and to museums? (I know that's not all of it, but it helps to think)

Deciding to Stay in these relationships is never that simple. A lot of it, for me, is swaying between pitying him and desperately wanting to escape him. I KNOW he will be devastated without me- I do everything. (Caretaker) But then I am just as afraid of him succeeding without me! (Need to be Needed- CoDependent) Its maddening.

I think, for me, I had to boil it down to removing HIM out of the equation and honestly asking myself: Am I willing to live like this? Because its NOT going to get better. Its been 20+ years, its not going to change, so: Can I Live With This for the rest of my life?

Also, I realized I was enabling his horrid behavior by covering it up, trying to control everything, etc. If he WERE to ever want to get better, I was preventing him from waking up, being self-aware of his behavior, enough to get the help he needs.

So there it is. My rationale for leaving, finally. I still struggle with it but reading it, writing it, keeps me on track. Gotta do it. Gotta do it for me and for my kids.

Stay strong.

[WitzEndWife]

I completely agree that abuse is not acceptable, and that I need to make a decision to take care of myself and my family members. It seems pretty simple here, on paper, in black and white, that, of course, I should just leave.

The rages, the name-calling, are not acceptable, in any way. Being abused is not acceptable. However, I do think that everyone has their own breaking point, and I know I'm close, but I haven't yet gotten there. I feel like I will know when that is.

Over the weekend, H again stated that there was "something wrong with him" and he didn't know what that was. He agreed to try DBT, which will likely mean more intensive therapy, and I think that will be REALLY constructive for him. He keeps saying, "What can I do to make you happy?" and I do believe he wants me to be happy, and he doesn't want to be angry and hurtful.

I just have to find ways to set boundaries against the behavior, within the parameters I have, which are that I cannot throw him out (because throwing him out means that we're done and I will never see him again - because, with no job and no friends here, he will have to return to his home country and will never be allowed back here). So, I'm thinking about my boundaries. I also think I need to spend more time away from him, doing things with friends or by myself, in order to allow myself to be more patient and less stressed around him. In addition, I do think that getting out of my parents' house will be an important part of everything, in order to eliminate one of his triggers.

[WitzEndWife]

Really Look at the list.   Are you putting up with abuse, isolation and neglect to go hiking with and to museums? (I know that's not all of it, but it helps to think)

Deciding to Stay in these relationships is never that simple. A lot of it, for me, is swaying between pitying him and desperately wanting to escape him. I KNOW he will be devastated without me- I do everything. (Caretaker) But then I am just as afraid of him succeeding without me! (Need to be Needed- CoDependent) Its maddening.

I think, for me, I had to boil it down to removing HIM out of the equation and honestly asking myself: Am I willing to live like this? Because its NOT going to get better. Its been 20+ years, its not going to change, so: Can I Live With This for the rest of my life?

Also, I realized I was enabling his horrid behavior by covering it up, trying to control everything, etc. If he WERE to ever want to get better, I was preventing him from waking up, being self-aware of his behavior, enough to get the help he needs.

So there it is. My rationale for leaving, finally. I still struggle with it but reading it, writing it, keeps me on track. Gotta do it. Gotta do it for me and for my kids.

Stay strong.

I really do appreciate your response and totally understand the feeling of pitying the person. I do deeply feel sorry for him, while simultaneously feeling anger and hurt. I think I used to be more of a co-dependent person in my early relationships, but now I don't feel like I need to control, so much as I feel deep sadness at the thought of throwing him out. Of course, my situation is unique. If I could throw him out, and he could just go to his mother's home in the same country, I don't think I'd hesitate. However, throwing him out is me saying, "Goodbye forever!" and also leaving him to find a way back to his home country, banning him from ever returning to this country he's grown accustomed to living in, with no money, and no job. I KNOW that's not MY problem, but it feels cruel to do that to someone you love. I would be more than happy to see him successful without me, because it would make me happy if he had finally done something for himself. But I think, he's gone this long without me in life without figuring himself out, that me being in his life and kind of forcing him to look at himself, and to take responsibility for himself, is actually a good thing.

We have only been together for two and a half years, married for one, so it's a completely different situation from being married for 20 and having children. He's already recognizing that something is wrong with him, and he's going to therapy. While he still is struggling with getting a job, he does want to work. I guess that I hope that therapy will help him function, and will help him manage his rage. I suspect that finding a career path will help his self esteem and rage as well. It all feels too early to give up. But maybe I'm too optimistic?

[DaddyBear77]

Pro and Con lists are a great tool. And as FF pointed out, it's what you DO with them that can make a real difference.

Something that really resonated with me recently is our article on The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships

I think it's true for most of us here that we're not in a "healthy" relationship, but as flourdust pointed out, it's not a one-for-one relationship between pros and cons. When the cons violate the necessary components of a healthy relationship, and the "pros" offer little more than some consolation for the loss of those components, that should provide a good compass for you. I'm speaking from personal experience here.

As for the feelings of guilt you're expressing, and the consequences of ending the marriage, I can really relate on this point.

There's a section in Stop Walking on Eggshells that has a great section with some options I didn't think of before reading it:

Beyond Black and White
It is easy to adopt the BP's black-and-white way of thinking and believe you only have two choices-stay or go. But many other options also exist. For example:
- Leaving the situation temporarily whenever the BP violates your limits.
- Taking a temporary break (days, weeks, or months) from the relationship.
- Learning to depersonalize the BP's actions.
- Remaining in the relationship but living apart.
... .

Paul T. Mason;Randi Kreger. Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder (Kindle Locations 2624-2625). Kindle Edition.

The list goes on and I'd suggest (re)reading it if you have a chance.

[WitzEndWife]

There's a section in Stop Walking on Eggshells that has a great section with some options I didn't think of before reading it:
The list goes on and I'd suggest (re)reading it if you have a chance.

Yes, I think those other options are definitely more in line with what might need to happen, which is another reason I think it's time, even if I am financially stretched, to leave my parents' home. At this time, I can't temporarily leave my parents home with him in it, and I cannot throw him out, because he has nowhere to go. If we again have our own home, I will be able to remove myself periodically if need be. I fully agree with that.

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm interjecting a bit off topic, but, I found myself more disturbed with reading Stop Walking on Eggshells.  My first time reading it, I had to stop.  I felt that the last parts of the book were ways to get abuse and accept it better.  Like picking to get hit on the other cheek for a while. I felt like the tools seemed to be ways to last longer, and suffer more in the end. For what it's worth, the gray area solutions (those not black or white) did not seem right. 

I don't think that my opinion at the time was true to the whole book, but I had to stop reading, and came back many months later when I was ready to try again to get something good from the book. 

At the time I was suffering as a victim of 17 years of emotional abuse and manipulation.  It was predominantly of the waif variety, with silent treatment, frigidity, passive aggression, projection, utter inner darkness being the norm.  I didn't recognize it as mental illness or abuse at the time. Although I'm still married to the same woman, I now consider myself a survivor of abuse, and not a victim.  So yes, there are other solutions than staying or going, but I have done so much emotional distancing and isolation from my wife, that I might as well be separated.  Separation is not a gray area that I want to be in for much longer.  I see the "gray area" solutions as necessary short term, but not sustainable. 

Now, as to your list of pros and cons.  Thank you for making your list.  In a like minded thread, I have posted open lists looking for the pros of marriage. (see https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305736.0)  It came down to things like  someone calling 911 in an emergency if I needed, and also caused me to realize I had gained from marriage by being in the "refiners fire" for so long.

I will say though that a relationship decision, is not an economic or even logical one. I looked at my wife's positive qualities as sugar that helps the poison go down.  And, how much poison is enough, and how much sugar does it take?
Incidentally, I think I could not list nearly as many Pros as you have on your list. Though, the Cons in my situation are not as all as drastic either.  We both seem to be held in suspense by a balance of pros and cons.

[WitzEndWife]

I will say though that a relationship decision, is not an economic or even logical one. I looked at my wife's positive qualities as sugar that helps the poison go down.  And, how much poison is enough, and how much sugar does it take?
Incidentally, I think I could not list nearly as many Pros as you have on your list. Though, the Cons in my situation are not as all as drastic either.  We both seem to be held in suspense by a balance of pros and cons.

Really appreciate you sharing that. I think that everyone's situation is different. Some people do well with black and white, while others need grey. Especially with BPD, black and white can be really difficult.

But I agree that everyone has their own amount of sugar vs poison that they can take. There are times when I feel like I downright hate him. I really do hate the Mr. Hyde version of him. The person who is mostly rude and obnoxious, and says snarky things, and flies into rages quickly. I see that guy about 50 percent of the time these days, since we've moved in with my parents. Before this, I saw him about 25 percent of the time.

The other guy can be sometimes a bit too clingy, but is otherwise kind, well-mannered, and interesting. He's also helpful and caring. He's much easier to love, even though he still does not fully take care of himself financially.

But the reality is that both are the same person, and I have to decide whether I want to keep consuming these wafers that are half poison, half sugar, never knowing or having control over which will predominate. This is not easy. 

[formflier]

  He's much easier to love, even though he still does not fully take care of himself financially.

 

Hey... .where are we at on letting him be financially independent?  If I remember right there were a few threads about it... .then it kinda dropped.

Then there were some promises of going to be a realtor.

Do you know people in the industry?  Do you think he would be a good realtor? 

Anyway... the good thing about lists is that you can then see which issues can be solve "only by you" and which ones take your partners participation.

The financial piece can be solved by you... .

FF

[WitzEndWife]

Hey... .where are we at on letting him be financially independent?  If I remember right there were a few threads about it... .then it kinda dropped.

Then there were some promises of going to be a realtor.

Do you know people in the industry?  Do you think he would be a good realtor? 

Anyway... the good thing about lists is that you can then see which issues can be solve "only by you" and which ones take your partners participation.

The financial piece can be solved by you... .

FF

He is enrolling in real estate classes for next week, so that's something.

I think he is a very passionate sales person and he knows a lot about architecture and history, and is a huge advocate for city neighborhoods. However, his lack of patience and lack of social decorum at times is problematic, and also his fear of rejection. So, really, I don't know. He might be great, or he might be terrible at it. I think he won't know until he starts the classes, whether it's something he's willing to do.

[formflier]

I suggest a two track plan.

Track 1.  He takes classes and starts earning income. 

Track 2.  He takes classes and says he is not willing to do the work.  You need to have a firm and healthy response that essentially says if he is not willing to work, you are not willing to financially support him, but you respect his decision and look forward to him respecting yours.  The less drama on your end, the better. 

Will you be able to respect his decision and the consequences of that decision, should he decide "he is not willing?"

FF

[WitzEndWife]

I suggest a two track plan.

Track 1.  He takes classes and starts earning income. 

Track 2.  He takes classes and says he is not willing to do the work.  You need to have a firm and healthy response that essentially says if he is not willing to work, you are not willing to financially support him, but you respect his decision and look forward to him respecting yours.  The less drama on your end, the better. 

Will you be able to respect his decision and the consequences of that decision, should he decide "he is not willing?"

FF

Yes, I would be willing to do that. That is easy and concrete.

[formflier]

This is good.   

As you travel the road towards a healthier you, it is important to make that a one way street... .with as few stops as possible.  Realizing that your partner may want to drive somewhere else... .and may actually do so for a time.

Leave the road to follow you open and trust your partner to control their own vehicle.

FF

[Nordrhein]

Hi, WitzEndWife,

I have just joined here, but your topic resonated with me straight away. As a wife of a man dBPD/NPD, who successfully avoided employment for 5 years out of our nearly 7 together, and only after threat of divorce and several month separation finally started working again... .Sadly, there is an undeniable pattern: most BPDs don't seem to think they should pull their fair share, and they always have some "good" reason for it (the world owes them, in short). This is manipulation, pure and simple. If he can get away with it, why shouldn't he? Not like BPDs have normal levels of empathy or ability to self-reflect to see someone else is doing their share.

It is one thing supporting someone who is genuinely TEMPORARILY down on their luck or where circumstances are beyond their control. As you are yourself aware, you are NOT responsible for another adult's happiness, finances or fate... .

As for the pros and cons lists, and the generally provided advice, unfortunately it boils down to: we can stay with them (BPDs/NPDs), life together is possible if WE employ the "survival" techniques, but then - it is just that. Surviving. Not enjoying life together. Forever observing the "subject" in their mental cage and their behaviour, pre-empting what THEY are (not) going to do next and more than likely manage yet another and yet another crisis. But THEIR crisis. We cannot have crises, we are only there to provide solutions.

I see from your post how hard it is to step away and see the obvious. I didn't see it for 5 years, and I considered myself quite a "reader" of people. The red flags were everywhere around me, but you just get caught up in thinking: naah, that can't be. It cannot be that simple, there is so much more to him. But it IS usually that simple. Sorry.

[SamwizeGamgee]

It's so easy to beat yourself up over "If I knew then what I know now... ." statements.
We can't. We're human, with human hearts.  We got where we are with all the best intentions.
Nordrhein makes a good point.  I felt trapped for a long time because I was not allowed to be human and have a bad moment.   And yet, there's an expectation to prevail, and extreme consequences are there if we don't rise above our partner's abuse.

[WitzEndWife]

So, because of our circumstances, we have to leave my parents' home. This has forced my hand to buy a home, because renting in the areas where we are looking is typically 2x as expensive monthly. This is H's DREAM, to own a home. We found a great, reasonably priced home, and have submitted an offer. However, my condition for this is that he enroll in real estate classes and take the test, as well as HUSTLE driving Uber and writing articles in order to help make up some of the down payment and closing fees.

I told him, "If you want this, you have to work for it. Otherwise, I'll walk away from the deal."

He has insisted that he will hustle. So, we'll see what comes of that.

[formflier]

Has he put it in writing?

How will the home be "titled"?

Have you considered a post-nuptial agreement?

Essentially, you want to protect yourself in the event of his "non-performance" on the deal.

If he will "perform" on the deal, he should have no hesitance to commit himself contractually to that deal, since YOU are contractually committing yourself.

Don't let him FOG you out with all the "trust me" stuff...


FF

[peacemountain]

I told him, "If you want this, you have to work for it. Otherwise, I'll walk away from the deal."

The difficulty here is that once the house is purchased, you have no means by which to enforce the boundary you've created. Once you've signed, he can quit trying because he has the house he wanted and you're left making the mortgage payment. Are you ok with this? What additional avenues do you have to enforce the work boundary after you've signed on the house?

Also, with real estate, he can claim that "the market is bad" as an excuse for not pushing hard on it.

Broken promises are the one thing I can seem to count on with my H. I'd guess the same is true for yours?

[flourdust]

The difficulty here is that once the house is purchased, you have no means by which to enforce the boundary you've created. Once you've signed, he can quit trying because he has the house he wanted and you're left making the mortgage payment.

True, and if you end up splitting, he gets half of the home equity.

I honestly can't recommend that someone on the Conflicted board buy a home with their partner. Yes, renting is more expensive in the short-term, but if your marriage goes south, you will REALLY pay for this decision.

[formflier]

The difficulty here is that once the house is purchased, you have no means by which to enforce the boundary you've created.  

This is why I suggested the post-nuptial.  :)epending on state law, would be an enforceable contract/would define the terms of the separation.

Yes... .ultimately Witz would be stuck with the bill for the mortgage, since you can't make someone pay that doesn't have money.

However, it could potentially clarify that she gets the house with no claim from him AND that she has NO financial responsibility to him.

Worst case... .she is paying for house AND forced to pay for non-working spouse or even worse pay alimony to him.

[SamwizeGamgee]

It sounds like a bid step ahead.  It sounds like your hand is being forced and you must buy or relocate. I think I recognize that the timing is not good. 
I think I hear a lot of optimism from you.  I know that BPD sufferers hear whatever they feel they are hearing, so, ultimatums tend to only work one way (against you).  Think of it as a kid who hears you say, "blah, blah, blah, I'm buying you a house, blah, blah, blah," and that's not far from the truth.   

For a relationship that is heading to the rocks, the last thing you need are yet more entanglements.

[WitzEndWife]

I've read the laws in my state, and contributions to the home are also considered in divorce proceedings. I will be the only one on the loan. I am the only one with paid contributions to the marriage. I also bought him a car, so, within the first year, if I choose to divorce him, he really has little recourse. Now, over time, yes, it becomes more complicated. Furthermore, he cannot afford a lawyer, and I can, so I have yet another advantage.

Finally, I will say that I am highly doubtful that he would come after me and try to take half of the measly equity, and I'm almost certain that we'd be able to settle it, given that I supported him entirely before and during the marriage.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Ok. Just bear in mind that everywhere he signs, will have to be unsigned for a divorce.  If you can handle it on your own (and now it sounds like you can), then it seems like you're living your life. Good job consulting the local laws, at least your eyes are open.
It was just my instinct saying to keep things as uncomplicated as possible.

[flourdust]

I can't speak to your state law. Have you consulted with a lawyer? In my state, home equity is considered marital property (thus divided equally) unless there's evidence that some part of the equity comes from non-marital funds (inheritances or bonds that existed prior to the marriage, for example).

If you've made up your mind, so be it, but are you rationalizing here? Divorce brings out the most aggressive in BPD (and often in nons, too). He could borrow from family to hire an attorney or find one who will work on the contingency of being paid from assets secured during the divorce. Even if he is unrepresented, a judge will veto an obviously uneven settlement in a divorce.

I simply encourage you to consider the full range of scenarios, not the one that is most favorable to you.

[formflier]

This thing sort of happened to me.  We decided to relocate during a "good" period of our r/s.  I thought things were going to continue on a positive, upward trend.

They didn't.

However, I made some specific steps to protect myself and leave myself (or technically my Dad... .who is loyal to me) in control of housing, because I knew there was a chance for weird stuff to come out of BPD land.

In my case the house and mortgage are in my Dad and only my Dads name.  I actually pay the mortgage each month.

About a month after we got here my wife and her family went nuts.  Police involvement they claimed they were going to "take" the house from my Dad... .etc etc.  My Dad was vaguely aware of the r/s difficulties that I've had, but since this involved his asset... .I called him and asked him to come listen.

He did.

The repeated this really weird... whacky theory about how they were in charge of his house and not him... .I kid you not... .

Things calmed and my wife's FOO realized they actually had no power... .some demands were made to sign the house over to them... . I ignored them.  

Hasn't been an issue in over a year.  

There is zero chance I will ever buy another piece of real estate with my wife, without a detailed contract about how that real estate would be managed and disposed of, should our relationship end.

Last:  The story about what they here... ."blah, blah, blah, you get a house, blah blah blah" is right on point.

My wife and I had a couple verbal agreements governing the move... .she doesn't remember any of them.  Strange to say... .I actually believe her.  She said what she thought I needed to hear at the moment... .then... .poof... .it was out of her brain.

FF

[formflier]

Finally, I will say that I am highly doubtful that he would come after me and try to take half of the measly equity, and I'm almost certain that we'd be able to settle it, given that I supported him entirely before and during the marriage.

Put all of your "assumptions" in writing.  Protect yourself. 

Does you state allow post-nups?

FF

[DaddyBear77]

I will be the only one on the loan. I am the only one with paid contributions to the marriage.

When I bought my first marital home with my pwBPD, I was the only one on the loan, but of course she was on the deed. This put me in a considerably WEAKER position, because she had claim to the house and could sell it from underneath me, claim rights to live in it, etc, etc, and I would still be the one "on the hook" for the mortgage. The bank would come after ME (and did, aggressively), and they said ":)addyBear Wife, who? Don't know her. Now pay!"

When we bought our second home, I made sure we were BOTH on the loan. Even though she had zero income and less-than-stellar credit, and we probably paid a little more in interest, at least we both know we're on the hook for the mortgage, and we'll BOTH get the calls and the certified letters and the door knocks next time.

I also bought him a car, so, within the first year, if I choose to divorce him, he really has little recourse.

Are there still payments due on the car? Do you plan on repossessing the car out from underneath him if you get a divorce? Or is that another thing that you'll keep paying for?


Please don't take any of this as a push one way or another - if I were in the same position again, to buy a new house, to sign for a car loan (and I've done both), I'd want to have thought a little more about the "really bad worst case scenarios" and relied a little less on the "I can just take care of it myself worst case and at least she'll have a house and a car"

And let me elaborate on that, too - I REALLY DO want her to have the house, if possible, if we get a divorce! And I am REALLY GLAD I bought her that car 5 years ago because now it's hers and she's all set.

But what lesson does that teach her about responsibility? When she gets things handed to her, it starts to become an expectation. All the "I'll try harder"s in the world don't make up for that implicit lesson that "... .but if I DON'T try harder, you'll still take care of it, so phew!"

[formflier]

Can you tell us more about "having" to leave the home you are at now?

How is it that he will be able to manage his behavior in the new house but not in the current house he is living in?  I understand that could be seen as an impolite question to ask him... .yet it is relevant.

So... .big picture.  Don't be afraid to negotiate and use power that you have to protect yourself.  You have a reason.

Before the house closes, you have something he wants (needs). 

There is nothing wrong with I'll sign over here (purchase and mortgage) if you will sign over here (post-nup or other contract).

Last thought:  Nothing to do with BPD... .buying a house under duress (a reason to move quickly) is something to be careful with.  There are several steps of due diligence in the process.  Know when you can back out of the contract.  Be deliberate about thinking each of those times through.

FF

[WitzEndWife]

I own the car outright, I don't make payments on it. The only thing I make payments on for him is insurance.

[WitzEndWife]

Can you tell us more about "having" to leave the home you are at now?

No ifs, ands or buts about it, my parents cannot live with him anymore, and have asked us to leave. So, it's rent something I cannot afford, or buy a house that I can afford. And I DO want a house. I don't see why I should have to put my needs and desires aside just because I'm afraid of this thing going South.

Last thought:  Nothing to do with BPD... .buying a house under duress (a reason to move quickly) is something to be careful with.  There are several steps of due diligence in the process.  Know when you can back out of the contract.  Be deliberate about thinking each of those times through.

FF

I have a VERY good realtor, so she knows exactly how to navigate the process. She has 27 years in the business.

I really like the house and it's in a hot location, and the price is right. Pending everything working out well with inspections and insurance, we will close and be protected.

Regarding signing a contract with him, I would need a lawyer for that, which I cannot afford on top of the house buying. I'm squeezed as it is right now.

[flourdust]

Yeah, I think we all get that you want a house.

Without legal protection (provided by that attorney you say you can't afford), you're entering into a contract that can blow up in your face, leaving you with no house or being forced to sell this house and give him money from the sale or other, equally unpleasant scenarios that can wreck your financial situation.

A real-estate attorney who can provide contract language that will protect you from these scenarios costs a few hundred dollars. You can't tell me that you can afford to buy a house and not produce, save, or borrow a few hundred bucks for legal coverage! If you are THAT cash-poor, then you can't buy a house, anyway, because random fees and expenses will pop up in the process that will easily exceed that.

[formflier]

  I would need a lawyer for that, which I cannot afford on top of the house buying. I'm squeezed as it is right now.

How much would it cost?

Something to think about... .if you are wanting to buy an asset... .yet don't have money to purchase and protect the asset... .it's something to think about.

I would spend some time on the legal board reading cases where people "thought it would never happen to them" and ask them if they wish they would have protected themselves and avoiding FOG... .when they could.

I also used to think... "yes... .she is messed up, but she would never do xyz... ."  That thinking is gone now... . 

Last thought:  I would bet that you could do a simple post-nup for $300 or less... .  If the intent is to protect yourself from him going back on his word about the house.

FF

[formflier]

A real-estate attorney who can provide contract language that will protect you from these scenarios costs a few hundred dollars. You can't tell me that you can afford to buy a house and not produce, save, or borrow a few hundred bucks for legal coverage! If you are THAT cash-poor, then you can't buy a house, anyway, because random fees and expenses will pop up in the process that will easily exceed that.

I put my post in... without reading down to see Flourdust's post.  

Also... .remember this contract (post nup) does not "require" you to do xyz if your hubby looses a job, it protects you from HAVING to do things that you have never agreed to do and currently you think you never will do (or that your hubby will NEVER do to you).

So... .the reasoning is... that your hubby would be agreeing to do (in writing) what he has said he will do AND he will be agreeing in writing to NOT do what he is saying (and you are saying) he will never do.

It is likely that a pwBPD would try to FOG you by saying you don't trust them... etc etc etc... .don't fall for it.  This is business... pure and simple.  And... .you have relevant history of breaking deals (don't try to prove this to him... perhaps mention it once)  

I can't stress enough... .the order of things matters... .once you get to the point where he has what he wants... .it is likely his motivation level will revert to his past habits, unless something is different.

You control what can be different... .

Once the house is bought... you loose control.

This isn't about being nice... .it's about protecting the financial future of your family.

FF