How much is my fault?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Please don't misunderstand - I know that the verbal abuse is not excusable and responsibility for that is his whether he accepts it or not.

Sometimes I wonder though how much higher functioning my pwBPD would be if he wasn't trying to be in an intimate relationship with me. Would he be able to cope better in the world generally? Would he be more likely to hold down a job? Be a more patient parent? Be less likely to have road rage? Be happier in general?

It's easy for me to see how the stress of this relationship has impacted the other parts of my life and I wonder if the same is true for him to that sort of borderline extreme. And honestly if that's the case, isn't it more humane for me  to walk away?

Lots if things swirling around in my mind tonight. Any thoughts on this one?

[Lalathegreat]

Please don't misunderstand - I know that the verbal abuse is not excusable and responsibility for that is his whether he accepts it or not.

Sometimes I wonder though how much higher functioning my pwBPD would be if he wasn't trying to be in an intimate relationship with me. Would he be able to cope better in the world generally? Would he be more likely to hold down a job? Be a more patient parent? Be less likely to have road rage? Be happier in general?

It's easy for me to see how the stress of this relationship has impacted the other parts of my life and I wonder if the same is true for him to that sort of borderline extreme. And honestly if that's the case, isn't it more humane for me  to walk away?

Lots if things swirling around in my mind tonight. Any thoughts on this one?

[DaddyBear77]

I've thought about this question a lot.

Yes, without the stress of a relationship, a pwBPD may be able to regulate more easily. But often, the fear of abandonment will keep them searching frantically until they're back in yours or another relationship. And no matter what, the PD doesn't go away on its own, as you probably realize by now.

More importantly, consider: why you're asking the question in the first place?

[BeagleGirl]

I'm inclined to agree with Daddybear. What I've read about BPD seems to indicate that, if not with you, a BPD would be facing similar relationship stresses with someone else. In fact, I think my willingness to compensate for my husband's BPD has provided a much less stressful and more stable life for him.  What it's done to me isn't pretty, and I think Daddybear's question about why you are asking yourself if he would be better off without you is more important at this time.

[Skip]

Good questions and responses.

I think we know that the best situation for this disorder is a person who is trying to recover (self aware) and a strong family support systems that provides structure, strength, and benevolence.

I reached that state. Things were calm. She felt good. In moments of candor, there was heartfelt thanks and appreciation. No trauma. No hurt feelings.

At the same time, there was no richness there for me. The better I got at handling things, the dryer the relationship became for me. We weren't married. In one incident of push (push vs pull), I didn't take the initiative to fix things - I just let the relationship softly drift away.

So, my general perspective would be that if you have kids and family to try and reach steady state - it's very possible - and if that becomes fulfilling (we have members that have reached fulfillment) then stay.

The irony is that we are often attracted to these relationships because of the passion and, in the end, that passion has to be tempered for the relationship to survive.

[Duped 1]

Great points Skip. Somehow I became addicted to the intensity. When it was good it was wonderful. When it was bad it was unbearable. No one has ever been so incredibly hurtful to me before. I would often say: "people don't talk to people like that and my worst enemy wouldn't say such nasty things".

[ortac77]

I have wondered a lot about this lately, there is no doubt in my opinion that the attraction between sufferer and non is initially mutual. In my case I can see now that I had the desire to rescue and an insane belief (ego driven) that everything would be fine because my steadying influence would supply the stability that my partner lacked.

I am sure my partner saw me as being able to supply all of his needs but of course I could not fill the bottomless pit and in the process I created a bottomless pit for myself.

Its like the 'rock bottom' of alcoholism, I always thought because my partner was ill that I could stop him sinking into the mire, but that was delusional - in fact if he has a rock bottom I have to let him reach it, otherwise he will never recover. My fear has always been his suicide attempts but in fact I am beginning to realise that I cannot rescue him from those either, even questioning whether I morally have a right to?

All I do now is that this illness has taken a terrible toll on me and a once calm and fairly stable character (me) has found myself fearful, angry, despairing, isolated and depressed (my rock-bottom). I am now working on all of those and I believe my own efforts at recovering are what drive my pwBPD to ever more attempts to ensnare me back in his world of insanity.

[Lalathegreat]

Truth bomb ortac - I am just beginning to see how my need to rescue set me up to attract this type of partner and relationship, and how constantly saving him from the consequences of his actions is actually preventing him from getting the help he needs.

And meanwhile I'm drowning.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts! I agree - I need to reflect in why this has been in the forefront of my thoughts lately.

[allienoah]

Hey lala,
It's probably in the forefront because you love him yet you also recognize his limitations. It's a daily conflict for me in this horrible process of "deciding". I have great times with my bf, and I know that all it takes is one statement by me (or situation) that he doesn't particularly like or agree with and it's off to the races we go. It is actually a push/pull that goes on inside of me. I have found though that the stronger I get-not allowing every horrible thing out of his mouth to get to me- the more I am pulling away very slowly. He has upped the love-bombing and I now recognize it for what it is. He truly does love me-as he is capable of loving.

[DearHusband]

I have found though that the stronger I get-not allowing every horrible thing out of his mouth to get to me- the more I am pulling away very slowly.

This statement is a key one for me. I'm running the gauntlet every night and can shrug things off like never before. But, while I find that life is more tolerable, we are kinda just roommates. There is no connection.

[Lalathegreat]

YEEEEEEEEES Dear Husband and Allienoah - I have noticed that as well.  When he begins to unravel I find that I am getting much better at knowing these horrible things he's saying are part of the fiction created by his disorder - not anything that is actually true. This has made it much easier to manage my own emotions during the hard times. On the flip side of the coin, there is absolutely no part of me that still trusts him with the important parts of myself and as a result of this pulling back, I have created a distance that makes it impossible to connect in a real and genuine way. This distance is what pwBPD brings up in almost every argument. Oh the irony - he claims to not want space and distance in our relationship, and yet as he is ripping me up for creating this, I become LESS able to give him what he thinks he wants. (Of course I have my doubts as I'm pretty sure that if I was able to look past the abuse and smother him with "closeness" it would trigger his fear of encroachment and create conflict that way.) And around and around and around we go... .

It's like learning the choreography for the world's most challenging dance.

[Grey Kitty]

I don't think anything good will come from trying to find the right balance of "fault" to assign to each partner in a dysfunctional relationship.

And clearly identifying your partner's abusive behavior then finding ways to protect yourself from it is completely the right thing to do. And you kinda need to get past that one before you can look deeper at it... .

Next, I'd look at it this way--you have dysfunctional patterns with your partner--ones where neither of you is taking a healthy role. Time to stop those too.

I have found though that the stronger I get-not allowing every horrible thing out of his mouth to get to me- the more I am pulling away very slowly.

I think when you cut out the dysfunctional patterns you participate in, and stop tolerating abuse, that removes a huge chunk of what your relationship USED to be, and it is a vacuum of sorts.

Perhaps your partner will grow and find ways to fill it with healthier, more loving and supportive times with you. Perhaps not yet. Perhaps never.

If you are having success at removing the unhealthy patterns and parts, I'd suggest you allow a little time to see if good things fill in that space, or if it continues to feel empty.

[believer55]

Just another SO nodding her head in agreement here.

I have tried validating etc but of late I no longer entertain the streams of abuse and accusations that come my way. Now I know there is no validation to his snide comments about me and I brush them off I too no longer believe the good things he says about me too. I feel like it is all manipulation to get me to respond to him in a certain way. This has lead to me pulling away and as you have all commented this is the worst nightmare for him (but all my fault at the same time). I am making special notice not to JADE and just keep answers to him very short and specific. It is not going well and I am feeling the drain.

I am proud of myself that I am no longer tolerating the abuse, however it may be at the cost of the relationship.

[ortac77]

I agree that it is not about finding a balance of fault, although I have found it useful to look at my part and come to realise that I will never get my needs net by my r/s.

I have managed to largely detach from the abusive comments over the past few months and I think Grey Kitty you are right because it leaves a kind of vacuum.

My partner has only recently started DBT, I do commend him for sticking with it so far although its early days. At the same time if I am honest with myself my patience has kind of run out.

I am taking a big step back and detaching, practising mindfulness and working with a therapist myself I am learning that I am actually OK and 'Fault' is not really the issue nor helpful. I am also seeing that it is my responsibility to meet my needs and have been repairing old friendships that had got abandoned along the way.

When I entered this r/s I can see that I had been 'looking for my needs to be met in all the wrong places' - so instead I spent years trying to fill the needs of another, classic rescue. That (seemed to) work for a while but in reality drained me and isolated me and made me put up with things that were not OK.

I must meet my needs, if as a result the r/s ends so be it. Yesterday I told him to leave after various threats of suicide or self harm (pity me, pity me) - He of course came back later (unharmed) and wanted to act as if nothing had happened. I knew it was manipulative and (to myself) called it for what it was.

What happens now we shall see, I can only do what is right for me but I have a feeling that really there is no r/s anymore merely two people living (for now) under the same roof.

[formflier]

  will never get my needs net by my r/s.

Likely not a good idea to put such a strain on a r/s to get "all" your needs met there.  Best to spread that out over several r/s. 

It is wise to look at your r/s and see what needs (wants) it does meet.  Then use that to decide on the future of the r/s.

FF

[HopefulDad]

Please don't misunderstand - I know that the verbal abuse is not excusable and responsibility for that is his whether he accepts it or not.

Sometimes I wonder though how much higher functioning my pwBPD would be if he wasn't trying to be in an intimate relationship with me. Would he be able to cope better in the world generally? Would he be more likely to hold down a job? Be a more patient parent? Be less likely to have road rage? Be happier in general?

It's easy for me to see how the stress of this relationship has impacted the other parts of my life and I wonder if the same is true for him to that sort of borderline extreme. And honestly if that's the case, isn't it more humane for me  to walk away?

Lots if things swirling around in my mind tonight. Any thoughts on this one?

If you walked away, I'd bet $ that he starts lashing out at the kids more.  Or has even more road rage.  Has even more trouble holding down a job.

In the mind of a pwBPD, it is always someone else's fault.  You remove yourself from being the bulls-eye of his discontent, he'll find alternate targets.