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Experts share their discoveries [video]
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Could it be BPD
BPDFamily.com Production
Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
What is BPD?
Blasé Aguirre, MD
What BPD recovery looks like
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Author Topic: Grieving the Illusion  (Read 467 times)
Curiously1
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« on: April 25, 2017, 04:40:39 PM »

Been posting videos recently but found they can be good sources to help with dettaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhDGo8xdyoo

I really liked listening to this one. The whole "Teddy" bear concept helps to describe how a PD views and treat others and that a part of us having difficulty in letting go of a failed relationship is how we might have treated the person as our "teddy" as well. Not putting anyone down. This of course does not apply to everyone.

One thing that stood out for me is when the author shared

"The control in you is trying to get them to be better people. The illusion that you have created is that they have all this potential that they're not reaching and if you could just 'be a good wife or girlfriend or husband, be a good boyfriend, if I can just be a good fill in the blank then they will fall back into this illusion that I have of them. It's also very controlling but in a different way.  You shrink yourself, you have something to say but you won't say it because you don't want to rock the boat, because if you rock the boat then they drift further away from this pretend person you have created. You choose not to rock the boat, they stay in the illusion. Saying yes to things that you really mean no to. Why? Because if you say no, you are going to pull them out of their skin and they are going to flip out on you and that is not part of the pretend person that you have made. You go along with plans, ideas and things like that in order to keep this pretend person happy because the last thing you want is for them to actually slip into who they really are, their authentic person. Their authentic person is kind of shi**y but you don't want to believe that so you make up a pretend person that is not kind of shi**y and you interact with that pretend person just as much as they are interacting with the pretend person they want you to be. We are all out here playing make believe with each other.

How to stop making pretend people out of people. Let me know what you think?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 04:53:12 PM »

I am not in a place where I can watch the video. I do want to comment on the analogy about the teddy bear and living with an illusion.

I think that is spot on. Ex isn't my kind of person. I honestly have no idea what I was thinking when we got together 20 years. All I can figure is that I was caught up in some kind of illusion. He said all of the things that I wanted to hear. I thought he and I would make a great team and have a big happy family, blah, blah, blah. I guess it was the delusions of a young 20 something person with dreamy eyes.

It took me a while to wake up and realize that ex and I were both living in some kind of fantasy world. He didn't see me at all. I don't think he even cared to see me. Ultimately, I think the hardest part is grieving the fact that it was all some kind of bull---t because I was young and dumb and naive.
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 06:26:33 PM »

Been posting videos recently but found they can be good sources to help with dettaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhDGo8xdyoo

I really liked listening to this one. The whole "Teddy" bear concept helps to describe how a PD views and treat others and that a part of us having difficulty in letting go of a failed relationship is how we might have treated the person as our "teddy" as well. Not putting anyone down. This of course does not apply to everyone.

One thing that stood out for me is when the author shared

"The control in you is trying to get them to be better people. The illusion that you have created is that they have all this potential that they're not reaching and if you could just 'be a good wife or girlfriend or husband, be a good boyfriend, if I can just be a good fill in the blank then they will fall back into this illusion that I have of them. It's also very controlling but in a different way.  You shrink yourself, you have something to say but you won't say it because you don't want to rock the boat, because if you rock the boat then they drift further away from this pretend person you have created. You choose not to rock the boat, they stay in the illusion. Saying yes to things that you really mean no to. Why? Because if you say no, you are going to pull them out of their skin and they are going to flip out on you and that is not part of the pretend person that you have made. You go along with plans, ideas and things like that in order to keep this pretend person happy because the last thing you want is for them to actually slip into who they really are, their authentic person. Their authentic person is kind of shi**y but you don't want to believe that so you make up a pretend person that is not kind of shi**y and you interact with that pretend person just as much as they are interacting with the pretend person they want you to be. We are all out here playing make believe with each other.

How to stop making pretend people out of people. Let me know what you think?

That all sounds right except for... .
Why was that person so good for the first 4 months?
Was she pretending?
It's all too much to get my head around.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 06:34:06 PM »

Why was that person so good for the first 4 months?
Was she pretending?
It's all too much to get my head around.

They weren't pretending. They really did feel that intensity. And then they didn't. It is like a switch is flipped and they no longer have as much interest. Part of the problem is the fact that things tend to start off with an intensity that is unsustainable. Once ex thought he had me on the hook forever, he was content to back off and let me do all of the work. I was his obsession. Then I wasn't. One day he was professing his love for me and the next day he was off posting online looking for another partner. I stopped trying to wrap my head around it. It hurt and it felt rather demoralizing. He did what he did for his reasons. It no longer matters why he did it. What matters to me now is the fact that it hurt. I don't think there is any reason that he could have that would take away the hurt.
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Curiously1
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 08:12:40 PM »

That all sounds right except for... .
Why was that person so good for the first 4 months?
Was she pretending?
It's all too much to get my head around.

They are not pretending, they're not necessarily 'bad' people but the controlling aspect of PDs and idealising an idea about you from the start that may not even reflect who you really are is what is unhealthy and a part of having BPD.

What vortex confusion mentioned about feeling like they don't really know you or cared to see the real you is what is unsettling to me. I felt the same way. Like my exBPDgf was in some fantasy world and then eventually I got sucked in because I liked how she made me feel. Just personally in my situation, I knew from the start something was off about her idealising me but I continued to break her fantasy image of me overtime... by just being my own person really.


What I found interesting about the video was where she explained when you aren't being the person they wanted you to be at a given time (having independent thoughts of your own etc) then you suddenly shift and step out of the role they had created/idealised you to be for them and inevitably that leads to splitting then devaluation and discarding you because you are teddy and teddy should not step out of line or be anything different than what they had imagined you be for them at the start.


"When teddy acts in a way that they don't imagine teddy should act they become enraged because anything independent of what they say or what they have outlined is viewed as a sign of separation"


The part where you show you are an individual with independent thoughts can trigger BPD like you are being too separate to them and that is hard for them to handle and even their abandonment fears. And of course the first 4 months (honeymoon period), having a PD or not is normally pleasant. Everything feels amazing and everybody is still showing their best sides... and normally on their best behaviour to each other.
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FantasticMsDox

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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 08:42:49 PM »


I'm a little raw myself, to watch the video but the "the control in you is trying to get them to be better people... ." quote was like a punch in the gut.

It took me a while to wake up and realize that ex and I were both living in some kind of fantasy world. He didn't see me at all. I don't think he even cared to see me. Ultimately, I think the hardest part is grieving the fact that it was all some kind of bull---t because I was young and dumb and naive.

^^^^ And this was like an uppercut following the stomach shot. Today was my last (god willing) time talking to my ex. I almost wrote to her: "sorry we're not who we want to be for one another".

I remember being in my relationship and the pressure and anxiety I used to feel in not wanting to "rock the boat". In hindsight, it was almost like clockwork that ex would break up with me every three months. Seeing it coming only amplified the anxiety.

I started to become hyper aware of the "calm before the storm", and it was as if I had to lock myself up and do and try to be things according to their whim at that moment. Anything to keep the storm at bay, to keep this nice weather we're having just a while longer... .

And really anything just to keep the dream alive. But, the storm is the norm I suppose. It's so sad. It really makes my heart heavy; the pain and hurt that is endured (by both parties.though perhaps one more ban the other) is truly baffling to say the least.

I wanted (still do) my ex to be a better person so bad, I saw all the potential in her, in me, in us. I thought my love, loyalty, and willingness to do anything to make it work was enough to make her better, more so, so she would stop doing things to hurt me.

 Now that I'm thinking about it I've summarized my logic throughout my relationship and brief tenures as friends like so:

 "I'll bring out your potential by being your girlfriend, oh that's not doing it for you? Okay, I can try and bring out your potential by being your friend. While hanging on to the illusion of the wonderful life we'll have together... .look at those glimpses. All these terrible feelings are totally going to be worth it, because I'm the one to make you better. You just need to see.  I mean, you've said you love me, you've said in this, you've said I'm that, we've done this, and we've done that." And on and on it goes.


 

I, at the moment don't know how to stop the pretending. I haven't accepted it yet because it's hard, and strangely tragic in a way. I would think that it would start by accepting and seeing them for who they are, and accepting the fact that the person, the dynamic is just... .not good. It's not all pretend, i don't think.

I'd like to believe that the "good" side is just as much part of that person as the "bad", but most of the time the bad outweighs whatever good is there to the point where it can damage you if you continue to chase the good parts.







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heartandwhole
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 06:52:17 AM »

Hi Curiously1,

How to stop making pretend people out of people. Let me know what you think?

I think we could go even deeper and understand that we never truly meet another human, we meet our perception of them.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  But I think I know what you are getting at here, about grieving the illusion.

It was a huge factor in my relationship, and when I saw the fantasy for what it was, my recovery accelerated. I wanted pwBPD to "save" me as much as I wanted to save him. In order to accomplish that, I had to be someone I wasn't. I had to squeeze into a mold that felt safe to him and didn't trigger him so much. I had to tamp down who I was because it didn't fit with what he wanted of me. I couldn't do it for long, and it was more than long enough.

The fact is, I didn't have to do any of those things. So why did I? That is the $60,000 question, in my view. My contortions were my way of trying to control the situation (and him!). If I was the perfect partner, then everything that went wrong would be his fault. If I did everything he wanted, then when things went sideways, I could say that I was the "good" one and he wasn't. I could run away and still believe the illusion that the relationship didn't last because of him.

No, I had to look at myself and not only grieve the fantasy that pwBPD and I had built together, but grieve for the person I thought I was, grieve for the child in me who desperately tried to "control" her environment in order to survive emotionally, grieve for the grown woman who didn't know a better way than to sacrifice her wants and needs in order to "get" and "keep" love.

Tough stuff, but the journey has been a goldmine of learning and growth for me. I'm glad the illusion was shattered, as hard as it is to look life square in the face sometimes.   

heartandwhole

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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 07:59:53 AM »

 Bullet: contents of text or email (click to insert in post) I get that too heartandwhole.

Do we truly meet another person or just the perception of them.

"If I was the perfect partner, then everything that went wrong would be his fault. If I did everything he wanted, then when things went sideways, I could say that I was the "good" one and he wasn't. I could run away and still believe the illusion that the relationship didn't last because of him."

I really like what you shared here.

Striving to be miss perfect and continuing to fight to keep love was like a safety net for me as well. If I did all of these things then I believed I could maintain someones love and devotion for me. I believed that if I just continued to strive to be the best version of myself and prove myself to my partner there would no longer be any reason to leave me for good reason. My ex not approaching things the same way and compromising in the same way looked to me that she did not care to maintain things as much as I did and I felt crazy and frustrated during times I felt I needed her to make things all better for me. Believing I did everything I could and the best I could and how committed I am was a way to maintain the illusion we were a a great match for each other and validate that I was worth loving and keeping and things did not last because she didn't really try her best, I thought.
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 08:30:52 AM »

Hi, Curiously1,

just wanted to first let you know that I have just quoted your post title in my post: thank you, it just sums up so well ... .everything, when the crushing blow of the - realization hits. The realization that the whole thing was soo convincing, yet it was just that: an illusion. It hurts like hell at first, but it does get better and you do emotionally detach. Where once you thought there just would not/could not be life without the "love" of that person, that unique, special bond and energy between you two that no-one quite understood (hm, for a reason) that you might have also been quite proud of (I know I was?). And then you find out you just have to let it all go, or you will be eaten alive. All of your visions of a happy life together one day, when he "comes to his senses a bit". Well, that day just isn't coming. Ever. It's devastating. 
Sadly, I do still live with the father of my child... .because of the child... .But where once he was the sole focus of my life, of all of my activities, now I live my own life, and he lives his own and the drama is over. It is hard to ignore anyone when you live in the same house, esp. BPD/NPD, but once you deshackle emotionally, look the ugly truth in the face, admit to yourself it is what it is and stop exhausting yourself with hopes and... .hoops, it is so much easier. I yet have to make the ultimate step, and with a child involved it is harder, but the clarity about the fact that this person can give you absolutely nothing you need, want or deserve... .never did and never will... .  It's a positive start in the right direction.
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 10:38:46 AM »

It's much easier to look back and question why we tolerate and hold onto pwBPD.  It took over 2 years of therapy until we all knew what we were dealing with.  For a while, we thought it was a mid-life crisis and she would get to the other side some day.  So you hold onto that person you loved who no longer exists.  The real person finally emerges. 

But the illusion was real to you.  And grieving is necessary, because in many ways the non experiences an emotional death of a loved one that is harder to endure and accept than physical death.
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 11:05:03 AM »

Thank you for posting this--- I think it will really help people on this board that are stuck to better understand what they are really struggling with letting go of.

Bunny
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 11:09:55 AM »

Ultimately, I think the hardest part is grieving the fact that it was all some kind of bull---t because I was young and dumb and naive.

You were a loving and trusting person that was taken advantage of.  Don't be so hard on yourself.  If you end up in a similar situation down the road... .just be sure you have learned from your past experience and get out sooner.  That's really the only thing you have power over.  BPD is a very confusing disorder... .and it's hard for many of us to even have known such a thing exists.  I know I didn't.   All I knew is something was wrong with the way he was treating me and I tried to see if we could work it out.  But when it got worse and I became a "bad' person, I just knew the only way to break this perception of me is TO GET AWAY FROM HIM... .because HE is the only one who saw me that way. 

Bunny
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 11:52:22 AM »

its a really great topic about self awareness, and some of the dysfunctional ways we interact with each other, even subconsciously or unconsciously (now hopefully a bit more consciously). i dont think i tried to make my ex a better person so much as the person i wanted her to be, though. i suspect that is part of the reason that i was drawn to a person with a fragile sense of self.

just a word of caution: while the link is essentially a book review, the source of the link herself is (admittedly) pretty far out there. among the opinions espoused in her videos:

"narcissists are demonically possessed"
" i believe theres been an invasion of the body snatchers"
"ive said i believe theyre the walking dead"
"evil idiots"
"i dont think ive ever called them zombies but theyre essentially zombies"
"something else is guiding them and my opinion is that its demonic possession"
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 11:59:33 AM »

Been posting videos recently but found they can be good sources to help with dettaching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhDGo8xdyoo

I really liked listening to this one. The whole "Teddy" bear concept helps to describe how a PD views and treat others and that a part of us having difficulty in letting go of a failed relationship is how we might have treated the person as our "teddy" as well. Not putting anyone down. This of course does not apply to everyone.

One thing that stood out for me is when the author shared

"The control in you is trying to get them to be better people. The illusion that you have created is that they have all this potential that they're not reaching and if you could just 'be a good wife or girlfriend or husband, be a good boyfriend, if I can just be a good fill in the blank then they will fall back into this illusion that I have of them. It's also very controlling but in a different way.  You shrink yourself, you have something to say but you won't say it because you don't want to rock the boat, because if you rock the boat then they drift further away from this pretend person you have created. You choose not to rock the boat, they stay in the illusion. Saying yes to things that you really mean no to. Why? Because if you say no, you are going to pull them out of their skin and they are going to flip out on you and that is not part of the pretend person that you have made. You go along with plans, ideas and things like that in order to keep this pretend person happy because the last thing you want is for them to actually slip into who they really are, their authentic person. Their authentic person is kind of shi**y but you don't want to believe that so you make up a pretend person that is not kind of shi**y and you interact with that pretend person just as much as they are interacting with the pretend person they want you to be. We are all out here playing make believe with each other.

How to stop making pretend people out of people. Let me know what you think?

This one really hit home. I used to think in the beginning in spite of some of her odd behavior she would grow up and into the person that I her saw being. That never happened and I learned that person didn't exist. I went along with her unrealistic plan in theory but when it came to reality I set boundaries. Of course she went ballistic then.
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 01:09:35 PM »

This one really hit home. I used to think in the beginning in spite of some of her odd behavior she would grow up and into the person that I her saw being. That never happened and I learned that person didn't exist. I went along with her unrealistic plan in theory but when it came to reality I set boundaries. Of course she went ballistic then.

Exactly describes my situation as well.
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 01:39:19 PM »

In a bad way... .4 months... .that is almost exactly the same time frame for me when it all started going totally and horribly wrong. 4 months of bliss with someone who seemed to be all of my dreams rolled into one on every single imaginable level. And a year and half of total hell since with someone who has come in and out and in ... .and out... .and out, and in and out, or my life ever since. Currently in my 3rd ST from him although what he doesn't know is that this time, I'm no longer talking to him because of what he's done. Well, he probably does know because the mask got taken off with no room for doubt and he knows that I've truly seen what's underneath. Devastating but this is the best analogy I have.

Maybe 4 months of intensity is about the most they can manage before the wheels start coming off, who knows. If you think of a 'non/non' relationship, even the most head over heels couple will still have a 'honeymoon' period before settling down into something more sustainable and enduring... .real life has to step in at some point. And that's usually after the first few heady months. The difference is that what happened to us is that where WE quite rightly anticipated this growing into something deeper, more long term, a return on the investment of our hearts that we put in... .they had as VOC says, flipped the switch. Not intentionally perhaps but the effect is the same - it was for them like turning out a light.

The only way I am ever able to process any of this is to remind myself that he IS ill, that everything he does is an in the moment decision, and that much of his hurtful behaviour is in fact a defence mechanism. This does NOT take away the hurt, not at all. My heart has been through the grinder countless times this last 1.5 years as he's appeared and disappeared, interspersed with hostile STs. But it's the only way I am able to come to terms with the things he's done.

Talking now at length to others who knew him even better than me, and to my own friends who were around at the time, there is absolutely no doubt in anyone's minds that he was indeed in love with me. I have just found out that he even wrote a lengthy text to a friend to this effect.  The love was real, the intensity was real, the feelings and the things said were real... .at the time. The great sadness for us is, that when that switch was flicked, we did't know and ours was still very much in the 'on' position.

I wish I could tell you something to make it better, but in the absence of that I can at least tell you that you are not alone, and you didn't imagine it all. I know it feels like we've been tricked, but the only comfort we can take is that although in a way we were... .it wasn't done with malice. And knowing that is the only way I cope with all of this.
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Let go of what was
and have faith in what will be.
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 07:41:23 PM »



"narcissists are demonically possessed"
" i believe theres been an invasion of the body snatchers"
"ive said i believe theyre the walking dead"


OnceRemoved, I haven't watched all her videos and just go by the title that I think might be interesting but you are quite right. There's a lot out there and on other channels that take it a step further to demonise people with PD. But with that said I will not excuse that some people just have really dark personalities and I have nothing else to say about it than to run and never look back. For example, someone with more psychopathic traits who gets a kick out of harming others but yes PD alone does not make someone 'evil'... 'evil' be interpreted I suppose in my opinion as actions that cause harm and choosing to harm and but yes try to stay away from describing someone or something as all bad just as much as someone cannot be all good...
I forgot who mentioned it but if someone shows more not so good qualities than good overtime then that at least indicates to you there is a problem and the relationship is overall, unhealthy.

Take what you can get that might be helpful to bettering/understanding yourself rather than focusing on putting down the other person but still be discerning about anything you hear, read whilst some of it may be useful. It might be more difficult for people who are still early in their recovery to not get into this kind of demonising black/white thinking themselves when trying to process the end because we are all in different stages and so many terrible things happened that we need to process so yes I agree, just be careful about the extra bits that some authors or bloggers make that are labelling or sound demonising. It's very easy to start thinking you were a victim. Just my opinion you are not a 'target' or 'victim', you just needed more knowledge about things and have more control over yourself and situations involving you the more you reflect and focus on what you need to do for yourself. But it really does hurt realising what you could have done for yourself or knowing better and just being upset about how you handled yourself because you didn't do so earlier. At least that is how it is for me at times. I think to myself, if only I was the person I am now with better boundaries (I at least hope so ) I wouldn't get into this and be so hurt etc. then feel kind of angry sometimes when reflecting on some parts  of the past.

I think we are fine here at bpdfamily though that we remind each other that they aren't 'evil' and the reasons why about the disorder but yes, it does not make their dysfunctional behaviour any less hurtful or harmful to us. It certainly has and nobody deserves to be abused in any way but we can all recover and better relationships in the future if that's what we want.
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