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Author Topic: Changing times and parallels  (Read 926 times)
Harri
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« on: April 26, 2017, 06:41:06 PM »

So I've been in therapy for almost 10 months now and I found out that my T, who I really like, will be moving on in June.  It is not a surprise but I had been hoping that I would be able to keep him.  He is an intern and his specialty is neuropsychology.  I consider myself very lucky that he put such effort and care into his counseling rotation given that it is not his primary interest or even close to it.  I am sad, but determined not to shut him out now in anticipation of his leaving in June.  I can see how in the past when I have become attached to someone and they would move on simply due to life circumstances how I would gradually withdraw so that it would not hurt so bad when it was time to say goodbye.  I am going to try like hell not to do that.  I do hate it when people leave though.  It hurts.  But, I can see how withdrawing would just make it hurt more and would taint the very positive therapeutic relationship we do have.  I find myself feeling very protective of him and so very proud of him though I would never say so.  It seems a bit condescending and that is the very last thing I want to express to him... .but I am so very proud and happy for him.

We both grew a lot together over the last 10 months.  I certainly have not made it easy for him, though I was not difficult on purpose.  Yesterday I asked him who was going to roll their eyes at him after he left.  He smiled.  I have a feeling he is going to manage just fine with that, though I will miss it.  There was an easy going banter in our sessions... .well, only for a second or two.  He keeps me focused on me which drives me crazy.  I call it the Harri hour and find it amusing that the hour is actually not an hour but 50 minutes instead.  It seems fitting (though I am well aware this is not unique in therapy).  I have tried and will continue to try to get him to talk about himself... .he avoids and deflects my probing questions.  Apparently *he* is allowed to do that.  I ask questions like "How are you?" and "How was your week?"  But no, he won't allow even that.  He answers "fine" and puts it right back on me.  Grrrr... .  10 months later and I still find it awkward.  Sometimes I go to my session and I have nothing in mind to talk about.  I try, but sometimes I am blank.  We always find something even though he has refused my suggestion that we play 20 questions on a couple of occasions to get things rolling.  Yeah,  he is a serious guy.  Okay,  I feel better getting that out here.  I'll be fine.

Yesterday, we put a couple of pieces together.  I have posted before about being 'special' and how liberating it is to realize i am no different than anyone else and have the same inherent value other people have.  The grief I feel at realizing just how badly my sense of self was hijacked by my mothers illness and gaslighting and projections has been so prominent lately.  Pieces are falling into place and the puzzle is becoming less puzzled. 

Two weeks ago (I missed last week due to illness) I talked about how I feel badly for people who have bad things happen to them but that my heart aches equally and sometimes even more when I think of the damage and pain the perpetrator must have experienced to do such terrible things to another human being.  I wonder what torture they must have experienced to be so damaged.  Yesterday my T said he was thinking about it and thinks that I am moving to a place of having empathy for myself and acceptance that the things that have happened to me have been pretty bad.  I am not there if that is truly where I am headed (and I think I have to agree with him though I am not certain) but certain memories have been prominent over the last two weeks.  I have been remembering how my mother used to talk badly about me to my friends and tell them I was not to be trusted, was dangerous and not a good friend.  things like that.  She would say this while I was right there but she would also say things when I wasn't there.  Humiliating stuff and my friends would later tell me all about it and laugh at me.  For some reason the neighborhood kids would hang at my house... .they liked her and she was always comparing me to them.  She would say it was her duty to protect them from me and warn them.  So anyway, it is not just the memories of these frequent conversations that have been happening but I have had all the feelings flooding in as well.  The ache.  How my stomach would drop to my feet and the intense anger and betrayal I would feel.  I can remember getting angry on a couple of occasions and yelling at her but she would just sit there and ask me what I expected her to do.  she had to warn others and let them know about me.  I can still feel the tight ache in the back of my throat and how I would hold my breath and hang my head, my face awash in shame.

They were all lies.  I did not deserve any of that.  I was no worse than any other kid and certainly was not dangerous to anyone.  So now I spend time with little Harri and hold her and promise her that those words were lies.  I tell her she was born born good and is sweet and caring and so very generous.  Silly and fun and precious and yes, she made some mistakes but that is how we all learn and those mistakes don't make her bad.  I tell her that her mother lied to her and was wrong.  she was sick and while that does not excuse anything it does explain how she could say those things.  I explain they are the things our mother saw in her own self but could not deal with or bear to look at because she was too sick.

I can feel little Harri and even angry teenage Harri stopping to listen and letting the words enter into their hearts.  I am not sure what else to say but I think for now it is sufficient.  The barriers are cracking and becoming easier to get through and while it is sad and there is lots of pain we are filled with hope and I can feel a lightness in us all.

I can see things more clearly and draw parallels from other situations now.  Yesterday I talked with my T about a little girl I worked with a few years back.  In the work I did, I saw a lot of kids.  This one little girl was about 3 and cute as heck.  She was blond with blue eyes and a mischievous grin that just drew me in.  Her mother and grandmother came to the session and were talking about her as if she were not even there.  They called her the devil and said she was possessed.  I looked at this little person with her hair in spikey pigtails on the top of her head and her little hands fidgeting and that smile... .and I ached for her.  When I said that I did not believe that
they assured me that it was true and proceeded to tell me how she had killed one the the three week old kittens they had.  According to them, she threw it out the window.  It turns out she thought they could fly and wanted to see it fly.  At the time I was frozen and unable to say anything other than tell the little girl not to believe them when they called her the devil and that she was good and precious.  I was so angry and so full of emotion at the time.  I wanted to kick them out but I could not and I was afraid to push them too far and make things worse for the little girl... .and I was too confused to really see the problem.  Now though, I can get angry and ask why on earth a 3 year old was allowed access to such small kittens, unsupervised and in a room on the second floor with a window with no safety features.  I can clearly see the negligence and the abuse and mind game.

The g-ma and the mother told the story as if it were entertainment and with such conviction that she was possessed... .it was just so damn funny to them.  A f-ing joke.  That little kid sat there and heard every word and saw their expressions and heard their laughter.  When I looked at her she grinned this devilish little grin that was adorable, but it cuts me deep to remember that.  I wonder how often they still tell that story.  They were warning me about her and letting their incompetence and neglect and bad parenting define that little girl.

It hurts to remember.  I can understand though how I was still caught up in the only thing I knew---> dysfunction.  I would respond quite differently today because I have healed a lot and can see past the dysfunction far better than I ever had.  I can even remember this story and while I feel very sad I can recognize that I was caught up in the generational dysfunction of my own FOO as I watched it being played out right in front of me.  I can give myself a bit of grace and not flog myself for freezing.
I can only hope that my words to the little girl planted a seed of doubt in her mind that everything her g-ma and mom said about her were not true and did not define her. 

It is stories like the above that I find so difficult and make me want to scream when I hear or read about how parents are good parents and love their kids and would never harm them.  This g-ma and mom 'loved' this little girl and I would bet that family and friends would say they were very good with her.  That little girl was attached to them big time too.  But they were clueless and very abusive in the worst possible way.  In ways that mess with your head and change your reality.  How many other people were like me or even less aware?  I hate to say this, but I think a lot of people would miss it.  How do you fight against this stuff?  How to educate people who have their own FOO issues that blind them and prevent them from seeing stuff like this?  Or is this me projecting my anger at my own situation and how I was so abandoned and marginalized by the other people in my life?  I can't tell from here.

I see so much of me in that little kid and her situation.  I hope she gets out and gets help.
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2017, 01:29:34 AM »

Harri,

Glad to see you back 

First,  your T... .it sounds like you two bonded, and it's sad to hear him go,  but it also sounds like he learned a lot from you.  Given your time together,  you each take something positive with you from each other.   

Regarding the little girl... .that sounds hard to deal with.  D5 just turned 5 on Monday.  A year ago,  she dropped our chihuahua,  Lily, on the cement. I think poor lily had a concussion by the way she reacted. I was pissed. I was right there.  I was more pissed when D was laughing at Lily having convulsions on the ground. Thankfully the dog recovered. I didn't want to think my daughter The Bad Seed. I forbade her from holding the dog for a long time time.  Was she going to light me and D6 on fire as we slept? Probably not,  even so,  in keep the lighter out of reach 

I'd be proud that you correctly identified the dynamic, what was going on. Patent fail not kid fail. 
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 01:54:25 PM »

Hi Turkish!   <--- right back atcha!  It is good to be back though I feel limited in my ability to help others (I feel too needy and don't know quite how to deal with that without withdrawing).  I did notice the change in your position here.  I am hoping that means more self-care time for you.

Remembering that story with the kid at work always gets me.  I am sure I am projecting quite a bit of my own situation on her but I don't really care.  The situation really illustrates, to me, the complexity of generational 'soft' abuse and how so many of us are blind to it because of our own FOO issues.

As for Lily and D5 well, I am quite sure you are not going to trot out that story as a means for introducing your kid to others, but on the *way off* chance you do, stop it... .now!   

Poor Lily though.  I imagine that D5 thought she was being silly and did not realize it was a seizure.  What do you think?  I think lessons like that (ie don't drop the dog) are more of a vertical line rather than on a learning curve... .for both you and D5.  I think it was smart to restrict her from picking up the dog. 
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 05:05:07 PM »

Hi Harri

I feel too needy and don't know quite how to deal with that without withdrawing.

What do you exactly mean when you say you feel too needy? Do you mean that you feel like you mostly need some help for your own issues right now?

Why do you think withdrawing is your reaction to this specific feeling?

"Cultivate safe relationships and seek support. Take time alone when you need it, but don't let shame isolate you. Feeling shame doesn't mean you are shameful. Educate your intimates about flashbacks and ask them to help you talk and feel your way through them." -- Pete Walker

Smiling (click to insert in post)

PS. Yep, there is that parrot asking questions again! I'm taking it easy this time though, just a few questions to start things off. More will follow though! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 07:18:18 PM »

Hi Kwamina!  Thanks for the reply and the question!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

What do I mean by feeling too needy?  I mean that I feel that I am so focused on me and the changes that are taking place and I have little to offer to offset what I take from the boards.  There is too much me time, never mind that it happens on my threads, it is still not comfortable.  Probably because I am feeling very vulnerable and have been for a while.  Barriers are coming down and I feel sorta naked.   I am more easily hurt, saddened and it is harder to mask my emotions.  At the same time, I feel lighter and happier.  I feel like I got some of my twinkle back so I am not complaining.  It is just taking me a bit longer than I expected to get comfortable in my new and improved life preserver.

Why do I withdraw?  Well, aside from what I wrote above, I still feel like I have to pay.  Logically I know that no one here can make me pay dearly for anything but the emotional reaction is still there to an extent.  I do not know how to simply accept help or anything for that matter.  I know not to do what I used to do so I flounder not knowing what to do.  Make sense?

That Pete Walker guy sure is wise.  Thanks for that quote.  Shame is a tough one. I am doing better with it but it still gets me.  Thanks for listening and supporting me Kwamina.  Most of all, thanks for seeing me and still sticking around.   
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 11:47:25 PM »

Maybe I missed it... .but what do you mean by you have to pay? Whom,  and for what?

Work and kids,  I can't be on here enough to coordinate and pay attention to be full mod.  I'm going into work tomorrow to finish a report to meet end of the month numbers (I refuse to requisition a laptop to work from home. Though my job is 85% hands on lab work as opposed to computer/office stuff,  maybe self care is keeping work at work and home at home?). I don't want to hijack your thread,  though, so enough of that. 

Any thoughts on a new T, or are you taking a pause?
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 12:43:02 PM »

I don't want to hijack your thread,  though, so enough of that.  

Too late! Already happened Smiling (click to insert in post)

Probably because I am feeling very vulnerable and have been for a while.

Healing requires us to allow ourselves to be vulnerable so this can be a very good sign, even though it might not necessarily always feel that way.

I feel like I got some of my twinkle back so I am not complaining.

That makes me smile Smiling (click to insert in post) Have you ever seen a parrot smile? It's a sight to behold!

I do not know how to simply accept help or anything for that matter.  I know not to do what I used to do so I flounder not knowing what to do.  Make sense?

Perhaps it could help to just write down all the alternative responses that you can think of to what you would have done in the past. Maybe seeing this written down in front of you can help you forge a new path forward.

The Board Parrot (back in the days also known as Captain Red Beak and Big Blue Bird)
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 02:17:26 PM »

Hi.  Turkish, I think that keeping work out of the home is an example of self-care so I am cheering you on.  I also understand the need to pull back a bit here and I am glad you are doing so.  Another example of self care.  Any plans to meet up with your buddies in the mountains?  BTW, if I ask a question and you answer it, it is not hijacking, so pay no attention to the Board Parrot!  I think he is trying to pull your leg.  Anyway,  I am always glad to hear how you are doing.   

Hello Kwamina.  Glad I made you smile!  I had never seen a parrot smile before, but it sure is good to see your pearly whites!  haha   

So I wrote down a list of alternative behaviors.  I crossed several off the list as they would be unproductive and represent a step backwards.   What I am left with is just being authentic while practicing acceptance and tapping into the healing and tools I have learned between therapy and here.  It seems like a good time to show off my skillz.

I relaxed on my couch Wednesday night and tapped into my feelings.  I cried quite a bit.  I think for a lot of things.  I am encouraged that it did not take long to get to the feelings and that they are still easy to tap into even today.  I find it even more encouraging that I have not wished I could dissociate!  LOL  Evidence of progress shows up in even the smallest of things.

So I think I have two weeks left with my T and then i will switch to a new one.  It is the psychologist who supervised him so she knows my story.  I have mixed feelings other than the obvious and expected anxiety.  For one thing, I am not thrilled that the new T is a female.  My present T was the first male T I have had and it was much more comfortable to talk with him given my primary abuser was my mother.  Certain topics are hard to discuss and while I am almost certain I will not run into the whole all-Mothers-are-meant-to-be-honored BS, I can't help drawing back a bit, at least in my mind.

The other thing that really bothers me is that she knows my history.  Which is ridiculous because one of the things I was upset about when I was told my T would be moving on is that I would have to re-tell my story... .and here I am feeling awkward that she already knows it.  Sheesh!  I am setting up a catch 22 for the lady and me.       Grrrr... .  It makes no sense but I still feel the way I feel... .dammit.

I have resisted asking details about the whole supervision process too.  I did not want to know if sessions were recorded and listened to later or what.  He took no notes in session.  So yeah... .none of this is important but I do wonder and I am definitely getting caught up in my anxiety with this.  <sighs>  Time to go take some of this through with myself.

Thanks. 
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 03:08:46 PM »

Hi Harri!   

I am sorry about the loss of your T-you have done so well with him. I can't quite imagine the anxiety you must feel but am glad that you are letting yourself feel. Do you still have that feeling wheel we talked about so long ago? I found when I had to change jobs last fall that so many of the things I had already worked through got rather triggered once again, mostly due to my inner kids emotions going all over the place, so don't be surprised if something like that happens with you too. It takes time to adjust. My T had told me to allow 8 weeks to adjust to my new job. He was right.

Excerpt
"Cultivate safe relationships and seek support. Take time alone when you need it, but don't let shame isolate you. Feeling shame doesn't mean you are shameful. Educate your intimates about flashbacks and ask them to help you talk and feel your way through them." -- Pete Walker

I too appreciate this quote from our Board Parrot. It is good. I'm not sure the 'whys' as to the isolation factor happening, but it happens with me as well. I imagine it is the programming from our past that brings this about. It can be hard to reach out, but once we do, there is a lot of help and support and the learning that we are not alone. Perhaps that is the greatest help, knowing I am not alone. How about for you?

Excerpt
Healing requires us to allow ourselves to be vulnerable so this can be a very good sign, even though it might not necessarily always feel that way.

This too is so very good. Thanks Kwamina!

 
Wools
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 12:30:19 AM »

Harri,

Not exactly the same situation,  but maybe a parallel, when I was choosing a couples' counselor, my instinct was to choose a woman. I always related to women better (I can't count how many women told me like this over the years,  older women). I was raised by a single mother who never had boyfriends.  Effectively, I never had a father.  I probably have resentments regarding that. 

My ex gave me the choice to choose which T from the small office just based upon reading their bios online.  I chose one of the males (the other 3 were females). I thought about what I'd learned in at-risk youth mentoring,  "you don't know what you don't know." I also thought that at this point in my life I'd try something different.  I'd throw myself to the Wolves,  so to speak, and see what happened. 

It was one of the best things I ever did.  I received support and no shortage of sage advice which I'd been lacking my whole life,  from an avatar of a need I didn't know I had,  if that makes sense. 
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 05:19:22 PM »

Hi Wools!  I do have the feeling wheel and still refer to it and of course I think of my favorite llama when I do!  (Llamas, and parrots and wolves Oh My!)  Thanks for the warning that this will take time.  I guess I should be prepared for a possible increase in flashbacks and nightmares, though I am hoping it won't happen.  I am not looking forward to the switch though I know it is necessary and even good for me. 

I do find it rewarding after I reach out... .it is remembering to do so, feeling worthy of help and being open to receiving it that is most difficult.  By the time I remember or think to reach out here, I am frequently already spiraling (as you have seen here all too often!).  So right now, I am sitting here, thinking, feeling and typing and crying too.  I am so grateful that I have this place and you all to call on for help.  Other than my T, this is it for me which makes it all the more precious.

Turkish, there is enough similarity that your choosing a male T does fit my situation.  I am trying to look at the switch to a female counselor as a good thing and occasionally feel excitement about it.  I am trying not to make a value judgement about how it will be or her... .but I can't deny the hesitation and anxiety about it.

Last Tuesday, in T, we talked about this, or more accurately my anxieties about switching and also my sadness about 'losing' my T.  He too thinks me talking with a female will be good for me.  Maybe I am ready for it.  Okay, strike that.  I am ready for it.  I have to be. 

I am not sure how to work through this part:  I told my T my story because I wanted to.  Granted, he had the general outline from my intake session but I did not talk about the mother daughter incest and the mind games until I was ready.  Even then, it was after I had unintentionally tested him in a way to see if he could handle it all without giving me the poor you, or I am so sorry for you crap or even to cry.  This lady already knows it all and not because I chose to tell her.  Am I supposed to just jump in?  As much as I want this to work, I do not see that happening and as much as I do not want to 'test' her, it happened with my present T without me really being aware of it.

(I am processing and working through as I am typing this so that is why it may seem do disjointed and rambly.)

With my T, I never had to make things be okay for him.  I did not have to cater to his emotions or worry if he was going to take my crap home with him.  In the past with other, female T's, I did not have that freedom.  They would cry or deny that mothers could sexually abuse or they bought into the myth of motherhood as if pushing a baby out somehow makes a woman have more value. 

This is tapping into how all powerful my mother was.  How she would put herself on a pedestal and totally emasculate my father and brother through humiliation or annihilating rage... .and how she actually got away with it.  My father went to his grave crying about what a saint my mother was and my brother thinks he was treated just fine while growing up.

Yeah, this is going to be interesting to say the least.  I briefly dissociated about 3 times and had several moments of panic while typing this reply.   

I did find out that my T is leaving at the end of June so I have 4 more sessions with him (yay!).  The new T will come to a session maybe next week or the week after to introduce herself.  Waiting for this is making me more anxious. 

I keep thinking about a lady I worked with several years ago.  I am in a profession where it can be difficult to be female especially in certain work settings.  Well, this lady used to get frustrated and threaten to strap a dildo to her forehead as if to say "yeah, I got one of those too.  Big Deal". 

So I keep picturing some faceless woman with a dildo on her forehead as I sit in therapy.  True.  Story.  I am quite certain it will not help but I can't get that image out of my head. 

Crud.
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 11:32:39 PM »

Quote from: Harri
They would cry or deny that mothers could sexually abuse or they bought into the myth of motherhood as if pushing a baby out somehow makes a woman have more value. 

I can't believe I'm asking you this again,  but they actually said that to you?   rhetorical.  I believe you. 

I don't suppose I have to say "switch therapists" if you get more of that invalidation.
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2017, 04:59:06 PM »

Nope, no need to tell me to switch.    I keep reminding myself of what my T said:  She has been supervising him so essentially he has been using her therapy techniques. 

But yeah, there are so many deniers out there.  It is not just that mother daughter incest and violent female perpetrators are supposedly rare and therapists may not have run into that before.  It is more, IMO, because of the denial in therapists and, more generally,  society who have such  distorted beliefs about women and the concept of mother.  Especially in today's society.  I am all for empowering women but not at the expense of men.  We won't ever get equal rights for all people by hanging onto myths while denying and distorting truth to maintain such myths.

Off soap box... .for now.
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2017, 04:43:00 PM »

Hi Harri

How have you been?

Did you already have that introduction with your new T?

The Board Parrot
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 12:49:00 PM »

Hi Kwamina.     Good to see you and thank you for checking in on me.  It feels good.

I have not yet met the new T.  That happens tomorrow.  apparently I am really bad at figuring dates and counting weeks in my head.  My last session with current T is the 20th.  Not sure why the meeting did not occur earlier as stated and I had no desire to ask or press the issue. 

I am still concerned that I am going to put up barriers with this new T so I have been practicing in my head and out loud (!) having conversations with myself using the tools I have learned and the understanding I have gained to help me.  I think a lot of it will come down to the choice of allowing my mother to stay in my head by feeding my defenses and fears or choosing something different.

That seems like such a simple choice on the surface, choose one or the other, but it is so much more complicated and layered.   I am still letting my mother control me in so many ways that are subtle and automatic so that even when I do choose something different, the same automatic responses occur.  That danged hamster wheel of self-defeating behaviors!  The moments when I realize this are punctuated with stunned silences, deep hurt, near paralyzing regret and more than a few profanities.   Son-of-a-b*tch! 

At this point one of the most prominent thoughts in my head is for me to work through this out of sheer spite.  Yep.  I think spite can be a wonderful motivator.  One that says "Oh hell no, I am not going to let you do that to me any more" and "I'll show you, I will do this".  Channel all my anger into action via spite. 

We'll see how it works.

I will be updating after I have the meeting with the new T.

Thanks again Board Parrot.
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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2017, 03:50:05 PM »

So I met my soon to be new T today.  Two more weeks of my usual and then the switch.

She knocked on the door in between her patients.  My current T (I'll call him TR) stepped out and talked with her and then came back in alone, sat down and asked if I was willing to meet her mid session.  I paused a second and then said 'Let's get it done'.

First impression:  I did not expect her (I'll call her TL) to look like Mother Goose.  A tiny thing, older, kinda delicate, though she had a strong firm grip when we shook hands.  When she sat in the chair her feet did not even touch the floor.  I felt a bit like Gigantor next to her.  Her dangling/swinging feet added to that feeling.

The meeting was awkward for me which I guess is expected.  During the meeting I was okay except for one point when I went to ask a question and then promptly forgot what it was.  I remembered tho, asked it and then the meeting ended.  Was I okay after the meeting?  Not so much.

After, I chatted a bit about my first impressions but then I started getting warm and the tears just started pouring out.  Quiet tears.  I've been hoping I would cry like that and get it all out in one shot rather than in the short bouts that have been usual of late.   It is so annoying.  Kinda like drizzle... .I would much rather have a heavy rain.  Hurry up already!

At some point I said 'I want to leave now, I want to go home.'  So I'm still trying to run.  I have wanted to walk out/run many many times during sessions, but I never said it out loud until this morning.  I stayed though.  We talked.

I am sad to see TR go, but told him today that I want him to leave and live his life and to just keep shining... .but I am a bit angry too.  He made me like him (the nerve!). 

I am scared because we have opened several cans of worms and now all these worms are loose and are having an f-in  party.  And I am left to deal with them myself while trying to be open to a new T who in a lot of ways looks a bit like my mother did. 

In a lot of ways my mother got worse with age, around the age TL looks.  My mother raged less but her behaviors and methods of expressing displeasure, hurt, anger became far more cunning and manipulative and cold.  More measured and deliberate.  I still see her as a small hurt child, but not ever a vulnerable one.  She was too broken to ever be vulnerable.

So how not to project all that on TL?  I don't know, but I know I need help.  Therapy right now is even more critical given the partying worms that have been set free.
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2017, 04:00:25 PM »

Hello Harri 

Excerpt
So how not to project all that on TL?  I don't know, but I know I need help.  Therapy right now is even more critical given the partying worms that have been set free.

How about being frank with her and asking her this question directly ?   Something tells me that therapists are schooled to deal with projection. So she might be able to guide you through this.

I also wanted to tell you that I think you are very brave ! Thumbs up !
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2017, 03:39:40 PM »

Hi Fie.  I am happy to see you!  You too have a knack for talking me down from a place of worry, confusion and fear.

I read your reply last night and I had to laugh at myself.  D'oh, of course I should just talk with her directly and I will.  And yes, I forgot they are trained in dealing with transference.  Thanks Fie.

My lesson here?  I now have people I can rely on to help me.  I don't have to do this alone (and yes, I am including people on this site).  Actually, there is no choice other than to trust myself and others to look out for me.  I can't do this alone.  That means I have to give up on trying to control things to settle my fears. 

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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2017, 04:06:08 PM »

Fie has given you some great advice Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

He made me like him (the nerve!).

How dare he, the nerve indeed! Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am scared because we have opened several cans of worms and now all these worms are loose and are having an f-in  party.
... .
Therapy right now is even more critical given the partying worms that have been set free.

What do you consider the biggest or toughest worms that have been let loose?

Actually, there is no choice other than to trust myself and others to look out for me.  I can't do this alone.  That means I have to give up on trying to control things to settle my fears. 

How does it make you feel realizing that you can't do this alone?

I do think this is significant progress that you are able to recognize that you need help with this and are willing to accept the help from others. Also scary I can imagine, yet also an opportunity to develop trust and apply everything you've learned so far.

PS. Some birds eat worms, I don't however, otherwise I could have helped you directly with that problem
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 04:03:14 PM »

Hi Kwamina!  That made me laugh!  What have you got against eating worms?  Seriously though, you *are* helping me with the tricky little guys.

What are the biggest worms that are loose?  In no particular order, here goes.
 
~ the mother daughter incest
~ the false beliefs I have about the world
~ who am I?
~emotions that feel foreign and wrong in their newness... .or maybe they are not really new but look and feel different without the veil of so many defenses. 

The Master two headed worm?  Hope.  Hope both pulls me toward and pushes me away from a healthier way of being me (whoever that is) and interact with a world that no longer looks familiar. 

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« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2017, 12:16:23 AM »

Would you really lose the "who am I?" Or push through it and claim who you are despite past?

When I shared what my mom's dad did to her, my uBPDx said,  "do you want our son to have that last name?" She didn't know the half of it either.  

I considered it for a moment, but then thought, "screw that guy who dropped dead of a heart attack in 1958 while living with prostitutes and raping my 14 year old mother." (What an SOB... .if only I could invent a time machine... .)

Tough my previous adoption surname of Duncan  (Highlander!) is easier on the ears, my name is who I am. I claim it. So what if it came from an evil,  abusive, child rapist bastid? I define ME not him,  not even my mother.  Nor do your mother and father define who you are.  Taking ownership of our own lives and identities is a struggle,  but it's not insurmountable.
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 08:20:08 PM »

Hi Turkish.  I had to think about your question "Would you really lose the "who am I?".  I realize now, thanks to your question, that I still have remnants of thinking (hoping?) that I could become the person I would have been if only... .  It was a hidden hope, sneaky and paralyzing in its unrelenting pressure to fix *this* (with this being me) as if the past never happened.  My never ending quest to be 'normal'.   Heh, I thought i had accepted that I can't deny my past and I have accepted it to an extent.  But there is that darned false hope popping up again.  Thanks for challenging me on that. 

What you said about your last name is quite freeing.  Reading what you wrote I felt both proud and defiant at the same time and want to get in your time machine right along side you.  You are right, we define who we are.  I can feel myself standing a bit taller inside of myself (if that makes sense) and the burden of shame that I still carry is a bit lighter.  Thank you.

So tonight I am nervous.  I am to see my T for the last time tomorrow.  Last week was supposed to be my last session but I messed up.  See, the week prior I had the mother of all panic attacks right in his office.  I was sick anyway and in a lot of pain but was determined to go.  Well, by the time I got there, my heart rate was pretty high and I was drenched in sweat, shaking, had horrible pains, the whole bit.  I've been bad before but never like that and never with an audience!  I think I scared my poor T.  Oh yeah, I threw up a couple of times in the restroom prior to the appointment (zwow!).  I was a mess.  It was made worse because I felt so damn bad for my T and had no real idea what was going on.  The pain was to the point where I usually have to go to the hospital.  Something kept telling me to stay with it though.  I did not want to leave because I did not want my T thinking I was running from saying goodbye.  So anyway, in between him stepping out to 'give me space' ( I think he was texting his supervisor... .so f-in embarrassing) while hanging right outside the door, he and I were able to work through it.  The pain reduced to a more tolerable level and I felt comfortable putting the waste basket down after about 40 minutes. 

So last week, I woke up at 3:30am the morning of my 'final' appointment in total panic.  Did a repeat performance of the week before only in the safety and comfort of my own home.  It lasted much longer and I ended up having to cancel the appointment.  I was too bad to drive.

So there i am, panicking, beating myself up, very upset that my brain and my body are failing me and so frustrated with the whole thing.  I had no idea I was so anxious about him leaving and switching t's.  I mean I knew I was anxious but not to that extent and certainly not to the point of putting on a freakin' show about it... .twice even.  Ack!  I am sure I will be laughing about this someday... .well, i do laugh about it but it is more of the horrified kind of laughter at this point!

So anyway, my T called and said he would see me tomorrow as he had paperwork to do in the office. 

Third times a charm?

Earlier today I was all anxious.  So I kept telling myself that it was okay, feel your feelings Harri, it is normal, it is temporary but you can't stuff your feelings... .blah blah blah.  You know, all that crap that T's tell you to say to yourself. 

Well, I decided they're all crazy.  Those things only made my anxiety worse so I changed it up.  I told myself you've got this Harri... .pull yerself up by yer bootstraps and belly up to the bar... .suck it up!... .get over it cuz if you keep this up it will happen a third time you dope... .you will do this... .Go Harri!

Now all I have to do is get the butterflies out of my stomach. 

Seriously though... .what the heck is going on with me?  I have made so much progress and yet my anxiety about switching T's has gotten so much worse.  Is it self-sabotage?  I really want to end my relationship with my T on a high note.  I want to prove to myself and to him that I can do this without getting all weird.  I see it as a way to demonstrate the hard work we have both put into this.  I have been feeling my feelings about the change and not running from them.  We have been working on this for a long long time.  Am I putting too much pressure on myself and trying to do this perfectly?  I keep looking within to see if I am struggling with feelings of abandonment but there is nothing there... .no reaction, no pushing the thoughts away which would signal to me there is some truth there.  I really am confident that I will eventually get comfortable with my new T.  It will take time but I am okay with that.  I am not looking forward to dealing with the projection that I know will come up, but I am confident that I will work through that as well.

I want this to make sense.

Just babbling and putting things down so I can look at them again later.



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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 02:37:20 AM »

Hi Harri

Thanks for the update! I am sorry to hear you had these unsettling experiences though

I was sick anyway and in a lot of pain but was determined to go.
... .

The pain was to the point where I usually have to go to the hospital.

Looking at the quotes above, I guess we could say there were mitigating circumstances then. The change that's about to happen, you switching T's, is already quite significant and being sick and dealing with pain on top of that, only made this even more difficult for you. It can be very difficult to remain in Wise Mind all the time: "Emotion Mind can be aggravated by: Illness, Lack Of Sleep, Tiredness... .Environmental stress and threats"

Seriously though... .what the heck is going on with me?  I have made so much progress and yet my anxiety about switching T's has gotten so much worse.  Is it self-sabotage?  I really want to end my relationship with my T on a high note.  I want to prove to myself and to him that I can do this without getting all weird.  I see it as a way to demonstrate the hard work we have both put into this.  I have been feeling my feelings about the change and not running from them.  We have been working on this for a long long time.  Am I putting too much pressure on myself and trying to do this perfectly?  I keep looking within to see if I am struggling with feelings of abandonment but there is nothing there... .no reaction, no pushing the thoughts away which would signal to me there is some truth there.

Even if there are no feelings of abandonment there, this change is still quite significant. Not only because you will be getting a new T who in some ways physically resembles your mother, but I think also because your current T really 'got it', really 'got you' and was able to do some great work with you. I can see how transitioning into a new phase with a new T is a big deal then, because what you have now with your current T has proven to be invaluable and something that you've really benefited from. With your current T you've embarked on a great new journey of healing, which by itself can already be quite overwhelming and now as you are well on your way, your travel companion and guide will be replaced by someone else which indeed is quite significant.

I think all the tools and lessons are particularly important when we are dealing with challenging or new situations (new T) or situations in which we might feel we've let ourselves down or ar moving backwards (panic attack etc.). The tools and lessons can not only help us be more prepared so we can prevent certain things from happening, but they can also help us bounce back better when they do happen. The measure of your growth and healing for me is not if you manage to remain stable most/all of the time, but more how you respond and move forward when faced with your own intense emotional responses. This might also be an opportunity for you to practice some self-compassion, to once again quote our old friend Pete Walker: "I commit to myself. I am on my side. I am a good enough person. I refuse to trash myself. I turn shame back into blame and disgust, and externalize it to anyone who shames my normal feelings and foibles. As long as I am not hurting anyone, I refuse to be shamed for normal emotional responses like anger, sadness, fear and depression. I especially refuse to attack myself for how hard it is to completely eliminate the self-hate habit."

Take care

The Board Parrot
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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 06:28:34 PM »

Hello Kwamina.  Thank you for hearing me and understanding.  Most of all, thank you for not minimizing what is going on right now.  This is big no matter how much I try to deny that and it hurts and I am so sad.  Your post and the quotes gave me something to hang onto yesterday when I needed a lifeline so very badly.   

Yesterday was hard.  I know he was my therapist but it feels like I lost a friend.  I've never really had one before.  The session was almost exactly like all the others.  Fortunately I just had relatively mild anxiety.  I kept telling myself to suck it up and get over it damn it because we had both worked way too hard for me to wimp out at the last session.  It worked.  Whew.  I'm going to miss the verbal sparring we would get into.  I am going to miss his all too rare smile and those damn eyes of his that were so accepting. 

I did not have, and still don't have the words to express my thanks.  Over the last two months as we have been preparing for end T, I have pretty much told him everything I wanted to say to him.  I did not want to keep repeating myself to him so mostly I just said thank you.  It seemed so inadequate and i told him that too.  How do you thank someone who worked so hard with you and never once backed away?  How do you thank someone for breaking you and then helping you build a band new sturdy foundation upon which to build?  i told him I have yet to realize the full benefits of our work together but any further progress I make will be built upon the work he did with me. 

He is a damn good guy.  I said thank you, see ya (haha) and walked away.

I had my first session with the new T about 45 minutes later. I like her office.  The building is a restored mill so there are huge windows and she has one wall that is all brick.  Yep, the proverbial brick wall.  She sits right in front of it and I figure I can choose between banging my will against hers or simply bang my head against the brick wall.  That made me laugh.  I still think she looks like Mother Goose but she has an edge to her that I like.  She gets sarcasm and even used it a bit with me so she scored some points there. 

She told me that my 'old' T (OT) was not stuck with me and was not forced to work with me like I have thought all along.  I always felt bad for him and wished that he had someone with easier stuff to work with like a fear of barnyard animals or something like that.  According to 'new T (NT), that is far from what happened.  He signed up for it, it was not a requirement for his rotation... .he actually wanted to work with me.  He wanted to work with someone who really needed help and who would do the hard work.  Typing that makes me cry all over again.  I've been so lucky in my life, but this?  A few people had their hand in getting me help.  That goes beyond just luck.  People do care and maybe, just maybe, I don't scare people and maybe, just maybe, they can see value in me.

I've still been struggling with a reason to keep fighting through all this crap (though I am much better than I was before).  I am getting closer to finding that reason from within me, but in the meantime, how can I give up on me if other people haven't? 
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 09:52:53 PM »

Hi Harri!

I've wanted to post a response to you for quite some time and my life has been taking more of me than I wish, so I have been negligent in doing so. Tonight though I have the energy and want to pass along a big smile  Smiling (click to insert in post) and a hug for you  , commending you on your bravery and courage! How tough this step, and you've taken step one, the switching to another T. I have seen through these past months how much you've grown and flowered (or at least put your umbrella out!). As I watch and see this, reading your words, you've still got a lot of pluck left in you! Thank goodness, because this world and our site need far more 'Harri's' who are real and raw and truthful in their vulnerability and openness, thus helping us all to grow.

I think that God must have a sense of humor someplace because I have 2 or 3 women friends who just happen to be my uBPDm's age, yet strangely they've become my very good supporting friends. What is that all about? They are definitely NOT my mom, thank goodness, and they don't try to fit into a parent role, yet somewhere deep inside me they have touched my soul on a level which I notice. They are friends, not a parent, yet there are needs which they have met, and I see it and take note of the age and wonder. I hope for you that there will be no comparison at all to your mom but something different and good, like what I've experienced and struggle to place into words.

My T has been so valuable and kind to me, and I could not imagine having to change from him to someone else, like you've had to do. To have finally, for the first time in my life, reached out (metaphorically speaking) to take the hand of trust extended gently and kindly to me still causes me to tear up. I had never learned to even approach trust until I began working with him. He challenged my beliefs and who I thought I was, walking alongside of me as I fell apart and began to unravel all the false beliefs I had. Then he helped me to see who I really am and who I was made to be, and is still helping me through that whole process. Somehow you and I have both made it, and we can celebrate together. 

You are loved! 
Wools

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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2017, 11:23:25 PM »

Excerpt
People do care and maybe, just maybe, I don't scare people and maybe, just maybe, they can see value in me.

You definitely have value Harri  Smiling (click to insert in post)

As for those who are scared? Too bad for them. They're missing out!

I'm 6'2", close to 300 lbs I misplaced the treadmill, and shave my head.  Today at work, I passed someone in the cafeteria I haven't previously seen.  She did a double-take. I smiled.  She looked away and rushed on.  Her loss.  Last night in Walmart,  a little kid ahead of me kept smiling at me.  I wanted to be scary to him,  but he was with his dad.  Little kids tend to be like that with me.  Decades later,  it's hard to reconcile since I was bullied starting in kindergarten until I was about a junior in high school and had started growing into the strapping wolf you see before you.  So what is it?

I think innocent eyes, at least the smart ones,  see things others don't.  They see past facades,  both those others see,  but perhaps more importantly,  the facades we construct around ourselves in order to protect ourselves.  Some people,  more than we think,  have The Vision.  I wish that they didn't,  because it makes me uncomfortable,  like that little kid in Walmart.  Like those that wished me a happy Father's day (whatever... .I'm just doing my job).

Our parents never had The Vision, seeing us as real people; instead,  seeing is as attachments to complete them,  or abusing us like your mother did to you while your father lacked the strength to protect you. 

Even after all of these years,  the things you carry haunt you.  However,  there are those in the world world who have The Vision(tm) who are more than eager to step up to the plate and see the Little Harri inside, see her value,  and join with you on the journey of healing.   
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2017, 03:00:16 PM »

Hi Wools!  I hope every thing is okay in your world.  I think of you often and you are in my prayers.  Thanks for the support and understanding.  Thank you too for you kind words about me.      Smiling (click to insert in post)  It means a lot to me.

Yes, I agree God has a sense of humor!  I swear I can hear gentle loving laughter in the background sometimes when I can shut out the loud voices in my head and focus on the quiet ones.  I am so glad you have people in your life who are able to meet some of your needs.  I think tho that it is even better that you are in a place where you can recognize that and accept it.  I hope to get to a place where I can simply accept, rather than wrestle and fight it first and then reluctantly move into acceptance. 

Much love right back to you Wools!

Turkish, thank you for your kindness as well.  It means a lot to me to hear that you think I have value. 

I haven't ever met you in real life but I can't imagine not being able to see the friendly and accepting side of you no matter how tall you may be or how tough you try to make yourself look.  Definitely her loss.  I have no trouble at all imagining little kids seeing the real you and liking you. 

I like The Vision(tm) explanation.  It is remarkable to me that people can see through my facade and that some can even see without the veil of their own projections and biases.  It is even more remarkable to me to feel myself allowing the part of me that so desperately wants to believe there is a light in me and that there is value taking a few more tentative steps towards acceptance of that.

Thank you for being part of my journey.

I have some new info from my new T to share.  I think I will start a new thread about that tho this one can certainly continue.

Thanks again my friends.
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