Trust (and the art of "letting go")

[halcyon]

First, I apologize if a similar thread has already been started elsewhere.  I looked for awhile and didn't see any that popped out at me... .Plus, my situation may be unique(?)  Not really sure.  That's why I'm here.  I really wish there were a support group for partners in my area, but alas there is not (yet).

When I first found this site, I posted an introduction because I didn't really know what to say, but wanted to at least put myself out there... .

But, after further reflection, it didn't take me long to realize that my biggest issue is trust.  I wonder if anyone here can say the same or feels the same?

I will try to give you all a little backstory without being too longwinded... .

We know now that my partner began dissociating as early as 4 or 5 years old.  (Not to repeat myself from my introduction post, but neither she or I knew any of this when we began dating two years ago).  When we first started dating, I DID notice that she had sudden changes in character, and I also did notice that the changes were pretty "full" (meaning, her entire "self" seemed to change).  But none of the changes were destructive/negative until 2 or 3 months into dating, which is when my chaos started.

I should also note here that- when we first began dating- she would tell me about her past, but it always seemed disjointed.  (as in, she'd had way too many jobs; way too many relationships- some with the same people but multiple times.)  And, to add to that, I kept finding strange things online that she'd clearly posted herself but had no memory of posting (and were also "out of character" ... .

But, to get back to my original point... .

When her character changes began being destructive and negative in nature, she definitely showed traits that are usually associated with having Anti-Social Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Histronic Personality Disorder.  She stole valuable property, cheated on me, spread lies about me, and verbally abused me (and then remembered none of the behavior later, or even to this day).

This obviously made it very difficult to try and re-start the relationship just over a year ago, when she first came back from disappearing for a month.  But she'd spent a week in in-patient care, and she seemed totally re-committed to treatment, so I agreed... .but only after talking to HER therapist first (for a myriad of reasons, the most obvious being so we could be pro-active with her treatment).

Her therapist theorized that, BECAUSE she'd started dissociating at such an early age, and because she was also Borderline, her "fragments" (that's what they call "personalities" these days, in terms of Dissociative Disorder) had developed personality disorders OF THEIR VERY OWN.

It's been over a year, and that still trips me out, so I just have to sit and ingest that idea sometimes... .

Therefore, anytime she dissociated and became a particular fragment that had Anti-Personality Disorder, that fragment would behave in destructive ways... .but when she "came back" and was her "core self" again, she would not remember the behavior, nor would she show any traits like that.  Because, at her core, she herself did NOT have that disorder- only her fragment has it.

But as long as she does not dissociate, she will never show any bad behaviors like that.  She will still throw "temper tantrums" sometimes, but they do NOT last long, and she quickly apologizes (and then goes overboard by beating herself up for an entire day or week). 

So, the trick of course is to keep herself from dissociating.  And she's done remarkable at it for over a FULL year.  Her therapist says it is most likely the LONGEST she's ever gone in her entire life without dissociating.  Her therapist also says (as does my own therapist) that she is very unlikely to dissociate as long as she keeps her Borderline Disorder under control, by using all the tools she's learned in treatment (she's taking a very intense DBT class, as well as weekly therapy).  And both of our therapists agreed we were ready to get engaged, which we did (as I said in my intro) about a month ago).

And here's the rub: Now the problem we seem to be facing is not on her end at all, it is on MY end.

She's doing GREAT- I am still having issues with trust.  And it is starting to infect our relationship in a negative way (not to mention infecting me personally).

For example:  When we first got back together, I had a deadbolt on my bedroom door.  I would not give her a key to it for a year, but part of our engagement agreement was for her to get a key.  Well, she got my ring and we got engaged, but then it took me 6 more weeks to get the key.  She accused me of dragging my feet, and she was right.  I was.  (I DID get the key though, as of a couple days ago).

But it doesn't stop there.  I remembered this morning that, when we first got back together, I set up a secret facebook profile so I could check up on her and make sure she wasn't cheating again.  I guess on the one hand, you could say it shows that my trust has grown at least a LITTLE, since I forgot I'd even created it.  But, once I remembered, I also realized I'd never told a soul about it.  I hadn't told my partner, I hadn't told my therapist... .I hadn't even told my own Mother (whom I tell everything to!)  And it scared me to come to that realization, which is when I came directly HERE to write this post!

I HAVE spoken to my therapist about my trust issue, and we did talk about the key I kept dragging my feet on.  And we agreed I need to learn to "let go".  Because, honestly, carrying around this burden is killing me.  When my partner doesn't text me back right away, I have panic attacks, because I'm that afraid of her cheating again, or spreading lies about me again.  And when she finally does text me back, it's always ALWAYS because she got too busy at work to pick up her phone.  It is a legitimate reason every time!  So I am only worrying myself over nothing but my own fear!

So I wonder if anyone else has shared my experience... .  I feel like she's doing her part, but I am failing to mine.  I just don't know how to "let go" and trust her!  Even though logic tells me- she's doing just fine!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi there,
Trust is something that once broken it is not easily restored.  Of course you want to trust your fiance, but your fear is normal and understandable. If you want to get over it, you have to acknowledge it is there and why.
Maybe you can talk to her, telling her that you are struggling with trust issues even as you want to trust her and you feel you should be able to do that. But you can't just force yourself to not feel the fear.
I'm very pragmatic. I think : my fear is not going to prevent anything bad to happen, it's only going to make me suffer.  So I try to let it go. If something happens I'll deal with it when I get there.

So trusting is something you do for yourself, not for her. You can choose to trust because your life is going to be a better one.  It's kind of looking the other way. But beats living in constant watch and suspicion.

Good luck.

[waverider]

trust is hard with pwBPD. Acceptance often does not mean trusting but accepting that you cant completely trust and therefore you accept that things will go bad, and that you wont be able to predict or avoid it. That is how you can reduce the fear.

It is almost akin to a phobia about never been caught outdoors without a raincoat in case one day it may rain and you will get wet.

It is an anxiety issue, taken to extreme it is the foundation of OCD. It can create dysfunction in your life,

Letting it go is not the right word for it but rather learning to accept it.

Anxiety over a potential issue can be far more destructive than the issue itself.

My wife is a compulsive lier and distorter

[allienoah]

Trust is a very difficult thing for me-trust that my bfwBPD won't become unhinged over a minor issue, trust that he won't blow everything out of proportion, trust that he won't rage at me, trust that he will act rationally, trust that he won't make everything about him, trust that he will control himself-I don't trust that any of that will occur. Unfortunately that situation has led to HIM not trusting ME. The reason for this is that I continually dance around "hot topics" to avoid his reactions. I delay giving him information to put off the certain eruption. I avoid discussing anything about anyone I am friends with that he doesn't "approve" of. I have made promises and commitments to him in the thick of an episode just to quiet and calm him. Then I can't follow through and I am a "liar". It frustrates me to no end that I have been behaving like this and I have begun to believe I am NOT trustworthy. That has become my Achilles heel as I always liked to hold myself higher than that. I am aware that by my doing all this, I actually was being manipulative in my own way. That greatly disappoints me as I had always tried to have the attitude of "live and let live".

[waverider]

Trust is a very difficult thing for me-trust that my bfwBPD won't become unhinged over a minor issue, trust that he won't blow everything out of proportion, trust that he won't rage at me, trust that he will act rationally, trust that he won't make everything about him, trust that he will control himself-I don't trust that any of that will occur. Unfortunately that situation has led to HIM not trusting ME. The reason for this is that I continually dance around "hot topics" to avoid his reactions. I delay giving him information to put off the certain eruption. I avoid discussing anything about anyone I am friends with that he doesn't "approve" of. I have made promises and commitments to him in the thick of an episode just to quiet and calm him. Then I can't follow through and I am a "liar". It frustrates me to no end that I have been behaving like this and I have begun to believe I am NOT trustworthy. That has become my Achilles heel as I always liked to hold myself higher than that. I am aware that by my doing all this, I actually was being manipulative in my own way. That greatly disappoints me as I had always tried to have the attitude of "live and let live".

Walking on eggshells makes us act insincere and suspicious. It brings in "grey" avoidant behaviour. pwBPD think in black and white and even if you state no when they want to hear yes, they blow up, but get over it, as that is their normal.

It is us who fear these blow ups, not them.

This is why it is important to state you reality then learn the skills of not allowing it to escalate. pwBPD ultimately will not respect appeasers, we wont respect ourselves either. Often you will hear pwBPD admit they need someone to say "no".

[halcyon]

pwBPD ultimately will not respect appeasers

I can agree with that one.  If I apologize for something that wasn't my fault, she gets upset.  It took me a long time to understand why, but I'm starting to get it.  I think it makes her feel like I'm talking down to her; like I'm talking to a child instead of an adult.  And I can see how any appeasement could be taken that way. 

I totally get where someone was coming from when they said "letting go" wasn't exactly the correct term.  I think the reason I am using it is because my partner tends to "stomp off" when none of her DBT tools are working.  And, in those moments, she rarely has the clarity of mind to tell me where she is going or when she plans on returning.  Well that really freaks me out, because she HAS self-harmed in the past, including a few suicide attempts... .AND she has Dissociative Disorder.  So I worry she will either self-harm or dissociate in that state of mind. 

The thing I keep failing to see is this:  It's not HER that I need to trust, it's ME!  I am not responsible for her behavior; only my own.  And I can't control her behavior; only my own.  What I've got to learn to trust is that I am going to be just fine no matter how off track she gets.  No matter how deeply she goes down the rabbit hole- I've got to know that I will stay ON track myself.  As long as I don't get on the rollercoaster with her, I will be okay.

What's really interesting to me (the more I educate myself on how to be a good partner to her), is that the tools I'm learning are going to help me in EVERY relationship I have- not just the one I have with her!  They are even helping the relationship I have with myself, in terms of showing me just how strong I can be!  Ha, I had no idea! 

Thank you all for your comments.  I'm so so glad I found this site, and I plan on utilizing it a lot!

[waverider]

What's really interesting to me (the more I educate myself on how to be a good partner to her), is that the tools I'm learning are going to help me in EVERY relationship I have- not just the one I have with her!  They are even helping the relationship I have with myself, in terms of showing me just how strong I can be!  Ha, I had no idea! 

This is a very common "light bulb" moment. From here you can start to thrive rather than survive, as you are doing these things to improve you rather than just to weather a storm. You will find your ability to listen to, and read, everyone better. You will as a result experience people reacting to you better. Your confidence will build.


Ultimately you cant stop someone destroying their life, but you can prevent your actions from contributing to an environment that creates a perceived reason to.

[Gaslit John]

Being married to my uBPDw for 23 yrs I can certainly empathize.  This is one of the hardest concepts to balance myself. 
How do you continue living with a person that you don't trust not to hurt you?  I do not trust my wife in many ways.  I struggle with not allowing myself to become too close to her because I am certain she will hurt me and if I'm close it hurts much more.  I know she lies; about money, who she's with, where she is, and many other things.  How do we find balance?  I have trouble because I become distant and often feel that I don't really love my wife like I used to.  She can be and often is the meanest person I have ever met by a long shot yet I continue to try because I understand she is disordered and also hurting.  This is my biggest struggle.  I am not sure if I find comfort knowing there are so many other people also living this nightmare.  I can't help but wonder what is wrong with me/us for putting up with this.  Why do we all stay and give so much of ourselves?

[waverider]

  I can't help but wonder what is wrong with me/us for putting up with this.  Why do we all stay and give so much of ourselves?

This what this board is about, working out the answer to this question so that we become more empowered about or decisions. To do nothing is ok as long as it is based on an educated choice.

[babyoctopus]

"I can't help but wonder what is wrong with me/us for putting up with this.  Why do we all stay and give so much of ourselves?"

Dear Lord, if someone could answer that question and "cure" us nons, we could live in peace, finally!

WHY do we walk on eggshells, prevent provoking their anger, not enage in "hot" topics? All I wanted was PEACE, just peace.

It's NOT love, for me anyway, I fell out of love yrs ago and STILL couldn't leave.

What we do, to ourselves, its a sickness, IMHO.

Finally divorcing after 23 years. Scared but happy, hopeful.

[halcyon]

I can't help but wonder what is wrong with me/us for putting up with this.  Why do we all stay and give so much of ourselves?

Personally, I don't feel like I'm "putting up" with anything at this point.  But I can see how others would feel that way, because I know I felt that way before she fully committed to treatment.  In fact, when we first reunited, there was a lot of resentment to work out before we could effectively move forward. 

But I don't feel like I'm putting up with anything anymore, because there are boundaries in place to protect me from that.  If things get too heated, I can ask for a "time-out", so we can both cool down and use logic before we speak again. 

We also signed a "non-marital relationship agreement" before we moved in together.  That protects me in other ways, some of which are financial or legal or both.  But I guess some of you need to keep in mind: this was NOT my first rodeo.  We were together almost a year before she fully committed to treatment, and we went through a lot of trial and error to get where we are today.

Walking on eggshells is a tough one.  I still find myself doing it sometimes, but we have steps in place to ease that too.  One tool we've been using lately that's really helping is to just sit down every single day for ONE hour and just talk.  NO t.v.; no phones.  We have a stone we pass back and forth.  When you are holding the stone, it's your turn to speak, and the other person isn't allowed to speak until the stone is passed.  We both work, so a lot gets stored up during the day that we're not even aware of until we sit down to do this exercise. 

Another thing that really helps me is remembering the "drama triangle".  (Have any of you heard of that?)  My therapist sent me a link about it once, and I'd be happy to post that link if anyone wants it... .(I am so unsure of the rules here, I'm not sure if they allow links?)

Basically, the "drama triangle" shows how bad communication begins and keeps cycling.  In MY relationship, I tend to jump into the "rescuer" role, and my partner tends to jump into the "victim" role.  But there is a third component (thus the triangle) called the "persecutor" role.  The rescuer is constantly trying to "fix" whatever problem they perceive is happening; the victim is feeling helpless (and possibly blaming everyone else for what they perceive is happening); and the "persecutor" is punishing whomever they feel is to blame.

And, to flip this around and see the HEALTHY way to communicate:  If you feel yourself becoming the "rescuer", try and step back and be a "coach" instead.  (Sometimes the term "cheerleader" is also used).  That way, instead of trying to "fix" the problem all by yourself, you are giving BOTH yourself and your partner the opportunity to work together as a team.  And, sometimes a coach doesn't do anything at all- they just LISTEN.  If you start to feel like you're slipping into the "victim" role, try and step back and be a "student" instead.  Instead of feeling helpless and blaming others, look for ways to help yourself; learn new tools to help yourself the next time; let people support you (without being crutches).  And, finally, if you feel like you're stepping into that "persecutor" role, step back and try to be a "self-advocate".  Instead of demanding something be done (or worse yet, punishing someone because it didn't get done), try and voice your concerns calmly and with compassion.  This doesn't mean "giving in", by the way.  A self-advocate can still set and maintain their boundaries while being compassionate at the same time.  For instance, if I know we need a "time-out", my inner self-advocate will voice that need.

And you know what really blows my mind?  You can do all this every day in your own head all by yourself.  So often, I find myself thinking silently, "I didn't get enough done today.  I should have studied harder.  I should have been more understanding when she blew up this morning... ." etc, and so forth.  That is me stepping into the "persecutor" role all on my own and punishing myself!  And it can work in a myriad of ways in that manner... .  all on your own, you can find yourself stepping onto that triangle and jumping back and forth between "roles" in your head, and no one is even there to join you!  We all do it every single day (no shame!  It's called being human!).

But with borderlines, I personally feel that being aware of this triangle is even more helpful.  We can't ever control where their emotions take them, but we CAN control where we allow ours to take us.  We don't have to step on the triangle with them. 

Sorry if I rambled on and on... .I feel like this is the FIRST time in 2 years I've been able to talk about these things with people who really understand what I'm going through.  It's been difficult with my friends... .as soon as I utter the word "borderline", I notice the glaze in their eyes.  It's not their fault- they just don't know anything about it except what I've told them! 

[waverider]

Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle

[waverider]

 

Sorry if I rambled on and on... .I feel like this is the FIRST time in 2 years I've been able to talk about these things with people who really understand what I'm going through.  It's been difficult with my friends... .as soon as I utter the word "borderline", I notice the glaze in their eyes.  It's not their fault- they just don't know anything about it except what I've told them! 

Unless you live with it consuming your life you will never really "get it" even the medical professionals only have an overview of it.