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Author Topic: New to this, feeling guilty  (Read 478 times)
Loveson

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« on: May 04, 2017, 08:39:30 AM »

Hello - my 32 year old son has been acting unstable for a couple of years (calling me crying... .so much crying for a young male adult, arguments with people, breaking up with his girlfriend of 9 years, sleeping with scores of women, job losses, overspending with my credit card and denying anything was wrong, was on tour as a musician for a famous singer who ended up firing him because "he's crazy", super needy emotionally all the time, needing constant reassurance).  I thought it was because he was assaulted and sustained a head injury, but that was 2 years ago. Now I've come to realize he has whatever mental illness his father had... .most likely Borderline, since he researched it and he fits all the criteria.  Psychiatrists have only diagnosed him with depression so far.

Here's the situation now that I feel guilty about.  His brother told me in confidence last week that my son has been struggling with heroin use for about 6 months, and asked me to not say anything because he knew his brother would never talk to him again.

Meanwhile, I've been helping the 32 year old unstable son for months financially due to his job losses, hoping that he would eventually get on his feet.  He had my credit card.  He had used it fairly responsibly lately, always asking first if he had to use it.

Once I found out about the heroin use I knew I had to stop helping financially.  If I had called the unstable son on the phone and said "what's going on, are you using any substances, etc.", he would have told me the truth because he's a super honest person.  BUT he would have talked circles around me and freaked out about taking away financial support.  He does have a new job that he likes, but it's only been 4 months and he only makes $15/hr.  I decided to call him and just tell him I knew about the heroin issue, that I couldn't help him much anymore with money... .I didn't ask him if he was using, didn't say much like he wanted me to, but told him I loved him and I don't judge him for drug use, that it's a coping mechanism for painful feelings and I understand that.  I said if his car broke down I would help, but no cash... .as heroin users need a lot of cash.

For 3 days after I told him, he verbally berated me and by text - that he was clean when I called (his girlfriend attests to that), that he can't trust his brother or me ever again, he was betrayed, that I'm a neurotic mess, an idiot, etc.  Same texts and calls to his brother with the same language.   I didn't back down and told him I couldn't talk to him when he was being abusive.

Then 2 days ago he says he's going to kill himself because he's a burden on me in every way, there's nobody there for him anymore, he has messed up our relationship.  Long story short, he won't answer my calls or texts but his girlfriend says he's alive and going to work.  He had one suicide threat last year, when he called a suicide hotline and they ended up tracing his phone and sending ambulances and paramedics without his consent.  A big mess that I decided to not do again by calling 911.

Since I'm just figuring out that he's either a Borderline, bipolar, or something, I have no idea if I'm doing the right thing.

Thank you for reading this long post!  
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 05:00:43 PM »

Hi Loveson

Welcome to the forum. I'm so very sorry to read your post and very glad you found us.

You've said you suspect BPD. I can say that regardless of any diagnosis that the skills that you can learn here will help you interact better with your son.  I encourage you to learn about BPD (top right hand of this page Start Here). The more I learned about impetuous, erratic and contradictory behaviours by my adult son the better I understood that I needed not to react, stay calm and learn how to more effectively support him.

My BPDs26 is a drug user, various drugs particularly codein, he's settled to MJ and one Valium at night to help him sleep. He's returned home and we're currently enabling his drug use - I'm not sure how I'd feel about heroin and may take another stance. I've focussed on my core relationship because it had broken down, I recognise he's going to need us. I've learnt how to have better boundaries to protect myself and household limits to make things bearable.

I think you've handled your situation extremely well. Dealing with drug abuse and BPD (or undx BPD) is extremely difficult and heart rendering. I'm sorry you're going through this,

This forum has been my life saviour and I know you can find a way forwards for yourself.

Do you have any other support other than your other son?

LP
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Loveson

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 11:17:17 AM »

Thank you so much for your reply.

As far as enabling your son's drug use, in my opinion it's not really a serious situation.  My other son was a heroin addict, and I spent years learning about it and now help other parents with the problem.  Basically you don't have a problem with that, at least.

I guess that's why I came down hard on my 2nd son when I found out about the heroin use.  It's nothing to mess around with, and if we as parents give them help financially it's a recipe for disaster - OD or death sometimes.  I was lucky my first son submitted and went to rehab once I learned to not enable in any way.

What I'm new to with the 2nd son is wrapping my head around his mental illness - I never realized that's what is going on, or he just has gotten worse.  And the suicide threats etc are new - 2 times now, which I'm finding is normal and on the low side.

I so appreciate your writing back.     
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Lollypop
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 04:57:48 AM »

Hi Loveson

I encourage you to read up about BPD, whether or not your son32 is diagnosed or not.  He's clearly struggling with coping with life, resists taking responsibility for himself and his own well-being.  The skills you can learn here will help you more effectively support him.

I passed responsibility over to my BPDs26, it felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders.  He didn't want that responsibility but is slowly learning by making mistakes.  That's how we all learn.  I see that everything that he should be doing for himself, he should do for himself.  I'm trying to walk beside him emotionally supporting him, not financially supporting him.

Have you heard anything from him since your last post?  How is your younger son about the latest events, I hope you both on the same song sheet; I get the feeling you are.

Have you got any support for yourself?

LP

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Loveson

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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 08:10:31 AM »

Lollypop, thank you again for your reply.  I have been reading about BPD, which truthfully is pretty scary stuff! But each person is different so I'm hoping he learns something good from this sad situation.

He has texted me every day, saying "I can't take the guilt.  I've ruined everything.  I hope you can forgive me."  Sometimes he says that and then says "Good bye mom".  He refuses to answer my calls or texts.  I'll talk to his girlfriend tonight to see what is really going on... .I don't know if he's shutting me out and being happy otherwise or what.

Did your son resist and get mad about not helping him financially?  Somehow my son is dependent on the thought that I need to help him if he gets stuck.  It all started when he went on tour with a band that hired him - a great opportunity, but they didn't pay much and he thought they would.  Meanwhile on tour he still had to pay his rent at his house.  Then, he was assaulted and was hit in the head and couldn't work for 3 months. I had to help them then.  He finally found a job... .when that happened I told him I couldn't give him any more money.  He told me last week that's when he started doing heroin (!)... what?  I tell you no and that's what you do?  I can't understand the way he thinks.  Then the place where he worked closed down. There I am paying rent for a couple of months.  4 months ago he found a good job, but they wouldn't let him work 40 hours for the first 3 months... .more $ from me.  Now he's up to 40 hours.  I find out he's using heroin, he's up to 40 hours and his response is to become suicidal when I put my foot down.  I guess this is all normal for a BPD I'm learning.  What I don't want to do is to back down.  I know now to be empathic when he says "I can't do this anymore" rather than trying to change his mind, but he won't call me.  So I'll try to listen more when he makes no sense and says ridiculous stuff like I love his brother more than him etc... .usually I point out the truth first. From what I've read, I need to validate his feelings first and point out the truth later.

I've been leaning on a few people in my life - my husband, a friend, my sister who is a social worker.  I'm also a group leader for an online site dedicated to helping parents of addicts, and those people are incredibly sensitive and supportive.

Thank you so much for your reply.  First learning about what is going on is so scary.  I was about to give up on this site because nobody replied, but you did - thank you.  I guess maybe this is a slower forum?  The one I lead is a lot more active, but either way I'm also grateful for all of the resources on this site that I can learn from.

   
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Lollypop
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 02:49:11 AM »

Hi loveson

I got to back to basics. Everything my adult son should do for himself, he should do for himself. He has to learn and improve his problem solving skills. I try and keep my eye on that line of responsibility and remember where the problem belongs.

Better boundaries and limits are needed to protect ourselves. I kept to one at the beginning: I'm prepared to offer you lodging and food in my home but I will not give you money.

Some on the forum have been in your position and ramped down their financial support. Is that something you think you need to do?

LP
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 07:03:47 AM »

Hi Loveson 

I'm so sorry what you are going through with your son. I recall that feeling reading about BPD, emotional disorder two years ago, it's scary and overwhelming as you say each person is different and that's our challenge to fully understand what it means for our child. I was confused as some of the literature I could not relate to, my 28DD is a 'quiet' pwBPD - she internalises rather than externalises. It became clearer the more I read, I've come a long way, I'm still learning with everyone here, presently I'm reading about 'apparent competence' how our children are competent in one situation and not in another.

Your sons situation "Somehow my son is dependent on the thought that I need to help him if he gets stuck." Our BPDs get stuck and find themselves in situations and environments they can't manage as they don't have the skills, competent in one situation and then not in another, it's confusing.  I learnt the life my DD was leading was unsustainable for many reasons because she had BPD and all the amount of 'propping up', expectations of others, trying to keep her head above water, 'clinging on' to this way of life with her fingertips was just hurting her more and pushed her into medicating with alcohol, suicide attempts and hospitalisation. The cry for help 'I can't do this anymore, the guilt and shame, I've let you down, I want this to end right now, I want to get out of my skin, the pain is unbearable' was the moment I realised this was serious and had no idea how to respond, she was reaching out for me to help, and that required me putting myself in her shoes, seeing from her perspective in order to help her and that requires empathy.  We all consider ourselves compassionate and empathetic - how do we communicate our empathy with our child, initially I felt quite concerned I'd not been empathetic and then realised how can you be empathetic when you don't know what is going on, that's where I stood back and listened. For me it's been the foundation to the tools I'm learning and I regularly watch this which you can access through listen with empathy to the  Bullet: important point (click to insert in post)

https://bpdfamily.org/2015/02/video-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

There is much happening in your sons life and finance is one. 

Perhaps setting time aside to meet with him in a calm space will help him open up what's happening so he can find a way forwards? 

WDx
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Loveson

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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2017, 03:07:18 PM »

Thank you Lollypop and Wendy.

I did tell him 2 weeks ago that I was stopping all financial help. In a "normal" situation with a non-addict the compassionate thing to do I suppose would have been to have gradually reduced the amount of money I was giving him, but I acted fast because I was dealing with his heroin addiction.

There is no easy way to tell a heroin addict that you've cut them off, because they know they'll lose their drug and that they'll get very sick without it.  It's a sad and harsh reality that no amount of cushioning or slow steps or any of that work.  It just keeps the addict using.  I've had years of dealing with that issue, since my older son was also a heroin addict and I also counsel other parent of addicts so know what works and what doesn't. Addiction turns all parenting on its head and it's horrible.

When I told him he screamed at me for 3 days, then relapsed, then became suicidal... .that went on for about a week.  It was horrific and sad.  He refused to answer my calls, only kept saying goodbye through texts.

After that he decided to get off of heroin (last week).  He detoxed alone in his room... another horrible aspect of this addiction.  He wouldn't talk to me - I only knew he was detoxing because his girlfriend told me. 

He called me on Mother's Day - a good sign I guess... .sounded awful, crying.  Had to go.

I told him I'm here for him.  Now I need to put in place the empathy I've read so much about with Borderlines.  It's actually the way I've always dealt with him (my older son tells me I enabled his brother's bad behavior - but I found that if I challenged my Borderline son too much he couldn't take it, so I ended up just emotionally supporting him.  Where it gets really hard is that I also financially enabled him unwittingly... .the old "walking on eggshells" syndrome).

This is so hard... .like walking a tightrope between addiction and mental illness. I'm struggling with guilt for being so hard on him but I know it was the best way in the long run. There's no point to giving an addict an easy way to keep using, because I end up broke and he ends up even more addicted.

I don't know what the future will bring. Usually heroin addicts take years and years to finally quit because it's such a powerful drug... .very hard to stop for any length of time. So it could very well happen that he loses his job  or spends his paycheck on heroin and can't pay his rent. From there he'd have to live in his car and go to food pantries ... .the stuff that happens is not good but they have to hit bottom hard over and over before they will stop.  I don't have any illusions that my son is any different from other addicts. I wish he were.

It's going to be super hard to talk to him, because he's going to keep his victim role and blame me for hurting him so badly.  I will have to have the courage to see that he's just in pain and to not fall apart and cry.  He has a way of making me feel bad about everything and myself the most.

thank you both, am trying to hang in here. 
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 02:35:24 AM »

Hi loveson

Excerpt
He has a way of making me feel bad about everything and myself the most.

You've got a lot going on at the moment and it's certainly traumatic for everybody involved. There's a whole drama going on and, with all that high emotion whirling around, it's easy to wobble. The fact it's heroin he's dealing with makes your decision much easier. You're previous experiences and job role must be very helpful to you, keeping you steady. It must be heart wrenching for you and I'm sorry your having to go through this.

I get confused sometimes. I can make a reasoned rational decision, I'm able to predict my DS response, know I'm doing the right thing but yet I still put that negative feeling/doubt inside.

Did you see I used the word "put"?

I hope you're able to stay out of that FOG, fear obligation and guilt.

Your son is not responsible for how you feel. You are a great mother doing her very best, the right thing, by placing the responsibility where it should lie.

I wonder how the GF is coping with all this. A strong relationship with her will help him. Do they live together?

Do something nice for yourself today if you can. You have a life too.

Hugs

LP
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 11:50:41 AM »

What you just wrote LollyPop was like a breath of fresh air.  Thank you.  I don't need to "put" bad feelings inside of me.

Exactly what you said is what I needed to hear.  I've never heart of FOG, but wow what a good way to become more aware of what is healthy and what is not. I'm going to pass that on the parents of addicts I help.

He has an OK relationship with his GF, and we've been communicating kind of behind his back in an effort to not enable his drug use - I'm very happy about that. It takes a united front to manage an addict.

She's quite co-dependent, but also strong when it comes to drug use or his verbal abuse of her.

Feeling better today, and grateful for your help and concern!   
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 12:41:41 PM »

Hi Loveson

Glad to have helped and it warms my heart. 

We all spend our life in the FOG. Once we can recognise it we can control it better.

Hugs

LP
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 04:58:25 PM »

Hi Loveson

You are doing great   I can understand your confusion v mental health and heroin together is new territory for you.  You are right to start with what you know - and my thoughts are with you and your son at this time, he's doing his very best as you are too.

Day by day, small steps. We are here walking the path with you.

WDx
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 08:02:49 AM »

Can I ask you guys what you would do in this situation?

My son has always been kind of emotionally dependent on me for positive support, I guess because he's in so much pain psychologically.

Now that I've told him I can't give him any more money due to his heroin addiction, he won't talk to me. He did call me on Mother's Day for a second, which was nice, but his texts are short and say things like "don't worry about me. I hope you're well. I know you enjoy being in the dark, and I guess that's how it has to be now".

When I say "I'm here for you, call me anytime I love you", there's no response.

All of this is out of character for him but am guessing he's mad and frustrated that I stopped the financial help... .it feels like manipulation and that he's trying to punish me, but from everything I've read about Borderlines, that's not at all the reality.

I'm trying to find a way, but I also don't want to keep "chasing him down" so to speak.

I just don't know what I'm doing. 

I had to cut his brother off financially also when I found out he was a heroin addict, and none of this happened.

I'm kind of scared, because I've always been so totally emotionally supportive of my Borderline son and now I have to be firm and he doesn't like it, and I would imagine that it's not good for him to lose me emotionally.

Confused 
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Loveson

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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 08:08:04 AM »

And thank you for your responses! You guys are wonderful!   

I see from my last post that I'm in the FOG
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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 06:43:34 AM »

Hi Loveson

I can understand you are confused and don't know what your doing, how he is reacting.

You are close to your son and he's likely feeling guilt and shame after what you've been through with your other son, he's also seen your care for addicts through the great work you do. You've withdrawn financial support, not your emotional support you've told him you are there for him anytime, you love him.

He does not like it as you say, you've set a healthy boundary.

"don't worry about me. I hope you're well. I know you enjoy being in the dark, and I guess that's how it has to be now".

He's keeping in contact, though it's erratic.  I can understand you not wanting to chase him down, when did you last hear from him? Are you able to validate his feelings so he feels understood.? That may help you move forwards?

WDx

 
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 08:44:56 AM »

Thank you for the replies  Smiling (click to insert in post).  You're right, he is sort of keeping in contact.

I'm not able to validate his feelings because he won't talk to me.

I'm going to call him this weekend and just see how it goes - I'm expecting to hear how I don't understand, how I've marginalized him, how he's the black sheep now, etc.  So my job is to listen and validate, not to agree. I think. From what I've read here.

It's so hard to hear the stuff he says sometimes.  Whenever anybody "crosses" him he goes ballistic verbally, and I've crossed him.

I'm kind of scared of him!  Yikes. But it's ok, I'll find a way to listen and be empathetic.

Do your kids say all kinds of stuff?  It's like he knows how to skewer my heart and put it in a fire and watch me suffer. 

Thanks for listening.  It's so wonderful to have people understand what I'm talking about   
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2017, 08:32:31 AM »

Hi Loveson

Yes listen with empathy and validate the valid. My DD 'internalises' rather than 'externalises', so I'm not dealing with the verbal rage you and so many here describe - the advice is don't react, respond with SET. You may find it helpful to practise for example "how I don't understand, how I've marginalized him, how he's the black sheep now". How does your response look like using SET where you are presenting back your truth in a format that he can hear.

I understand when you say are kind of scared of him, his behaviour, the stuff he says does not make sense, that skewer to your heart is the pain he is feeling inside. As you'll have learnt through your drug journey education is key to finding solutions for you, we can't change our children, we can change ourselves, so glad you found us Loveson!

Have you read any books?

I hope he answers your call.

WDx

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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 11:41:03 AM »

Thank you Wendy.

Honestly I feel as though I've been a supportive, nonjudgmental parent for his entire life (with a few slip-ups here and there). I've never been the type to yell at my kids or to tell them they're wrong. I listen and empathize as much as possible.

I guess that's why this situation is so maddening for me. I've done nothing but give, give, give to him in any and all ways.

Now, when I put my foot down, he responds as a child would. Even a child wouldn't cut contact with a person. I just don't understand it.  He refuses to answer my calls, still, weeks later. All because I'm not doing what he wants, which is to get money out of me.

He is 32. I don't want to keep giving him money, nor to have him expect it.

It makes me feel like I'm only significant or important to him to help him financially.

I've read books on Borderline behavior, have watched the videos on this site and read the articles.

It seems as though it's all skewed towards being kind and empathetic to the Borderline, which is fine - but how does that apply to this situation?

I think I just need to leave him alone.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated, and thank you for listening.

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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 11:52:52 AM »

Hi Loveson

I can understand how you feel.  As you say it's a stretch to understand the behaviour, when their feelings don’t fit the facts, they may unconsciously revise the facts to fit their feelings, that maybe where your son is.  He's not giving you much option apart from to leave him be at this time.  I’m sorry I don’t have any answers just hope that he’ll move forwards from where he is.  Are you able to keep informed via his GF? How are you are coping. 

WDx
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