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Author Topic: How do you fight off becoming resentful  (Read 563 times)
Hmcbart
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Relationship status: Married for 17 years and together for 19.
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« on: May 10, 2017, 10:01:54 AM »

I haven't posted much in a while. I'm struggling lately with resentment.  We are in MC and have been for 5 months now.  Things seemed to be getting better but then they slide backward.  The biggest issue I have is the lack of sex in my marriage.  We've been married almost 20 years.  It was good at the start but it fell off about 14 years ago.  It went from weekly to monthly to quarterly to twice a year maybe.  I understand that it will never be as often as I would like (1-3 a week) but would love 3-4 times per month. 

That said, the problem I'm starting to realize is that it may be me.  I can do great for a couple of weeks and then when nothing happens and all she has are excuses why she can't I get upset.  I don't usually get mean or nasty but my words are always used as an excuse later. They don't have to be mean or angry words but when she needs an excuse she twists them around to say they were mean and hurtful. 

I have been through this so many times over the years.  The humiliating ways she has turned me down have caused a lot of damage to my self esteem.  Even now when she says she wants to be more sexual and is attracted to me that way, she still finds a reason not to.  Each time she gives me false promises I grow more and more resentful.  My therapist has told me that I need to try and get over the past otherwise I will not be able to move forward and I will be stalking our MC. 

So my question is how?  How do you move forward when the words you hear from your SO are exactly what you need to hear but their actions are the complete opposite.  It's not even just the sex with my wife.  She offered to cook something for me that I had been asking for.  Then she always had a reason not to do it.  It was even mentioned in our MC.  The therapist thought it was great that she had offered to do this and said we were making progress.  A month and half went by and still no dinner.  I pointed it out in our last MC and told her that I believe she has great intentions but no follow through.  If I were to do this she would be extremely upset.  I told her the she judges herself by her intentions but she judges me by my actions.  With every day that has past since that day (2 weeks), she still has nothing but excuses and it's the same with sex.  I tried to compromise as we were suppose to do.  I asked for 3-4 times per month.  She wanted once per month or so.  She even said she could do once a week and wanted to do it.  It's has happened 3 times this year.  I keep getting to in MC that this is a giant improvement and I should focus on that instead of the fact that she hasn't lived up to what she has said or promised.  Even those 3 times only came a few days after an argument where I was upset that she was still just making excuses. 

Sorry for the long post.  I guess my question is how? For those of you who have been able to move forward from the hurtful things in the past.  How have you been able to do it? Were you able to do it when your SO was still repeating the same old patterns as before or did they finally change their behaviors to allow you to move forward?

For me with every positive I move forward and then this one issue comes up again every month and my resentment grows and I slide right back.  I want to move forward, I just don't know how to let go of all the hurt when it still feels like nothing has changed.  She has been less criticizing and her silent treatment and anger has gone away tremendously. But this one issue that is so important to me just keeps getting ignored and meets with words but no actions. 
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 02:16:26 PM »

When I first read this topic, I was reminded that feeling resentment is often an indication that you are accepting bad or abusive behavior from her, and need to enforce better boundaries to protect yourself.

I do believe that this is true, but it isn't very workable in your case--you see, you can protect yourself from things she is doing to you by enforcing boundaries, but you really cannot protect yourself from things she's withholding from you that way.

You cannot use boundary enforcement to force her to do something she is unwilling to do. Whether that is sex, or cooking a meal for you, or talking to you (aka ending the silent treatment)

... .and when it comes to sex, I have to recommend radical acceptance. It has been 14 years. She isn't both willing and able to have as much sex as you want. I'd be inclined to believe her when she says she wants to be more sexual. But after this long, I wouldn't believe that she is really going to accomplish it.

Bluntly, being sexually compatible is a very important part of a relationship, and hugely differing levels of libido isn't compatible. I'd like to add that the partner who wants/needs less sex isn't wrong, neither is the partner who wants/needs more sex. Try to avoid making either of you better or worse than the other, and try to look at it as a difference where you need to find a workable compromise.

And I see three paths which you can choose between:

1. You are frustrated and resentful, and (most likely) end up with continued and perhaps worsening conflict.
2. You find other ways of getting your sexual needs met that don't involve her. (There are a variety of possibilities; would you like to consider any? I don't want to completely derail the topic if you aren't looking in this direction.)
3. You end the marriage over this.

(In theory, your wife could find more interest in sex, and some of your actions might help her in this direction... .but I'm leaving this out, because you have no control over whether this happens or not!)
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 04:13:43 PM »

Thanks for the reply.  I have come to the conclusion that I'm not going to leave.  As much as I've probably threatened it, I am not going to do it.  So that's out of the equation unless she decides to leave.  As far as differing libidos, yes this is true. I feel like I am compromising asking for 3-4 times per month when it was 1-2 times per year.  She has even said she would be ok with once a week but always comes up with a reason why it can't happen.  So I'm pretty much resigned to handling things myself so to speak.  I'm never going to cheat because I refuse to break that vow.  I am trying to accept that what she says and what she does are never going to come close to matching up. 

The question I'm dealing with is how to be ok with it.  How do you use radical acceptance and not let the resentment build?  I'm sure that's more of an oxymoron as having radical acceptance means not being resentful of what happens.  But how have you or anyone else been able to accept it without becoming resentful? 
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Happy outside

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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 04:42:15 PM »

It was good for me to see this topic from a mans perspective. This is one of our biggest issues and it helps me to see what it is like for my spouse.

I too resent my husband for the way he has treated me, making intimacy extremely difficult for me.

But maybe after reading this, I will try to not reject him as often as I was.

It's worth a try and that's all I can do; is try.
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 05:28:53 PM »

I'm sorry you're going through this--it must be so tough.  Sex is a basic human need for most of us, so don't feel bad for needing it (though I agree with the other poster that your wife isn't "wrong" for not needing it as much either). 

My husband and I don't have a mismatch in libido, so I can't say I know what this is like for you. But as a woman, I can tell you that I always want sex more often when I feel close to my husband emotionally--so hopefully as you start to work through some of this stuff in marriage counseling, the sex stuff will also improve. You say you've had sex a few times in the past year. Can you think back to the conditions surrounding those 3 times? Were you feeling especially close at those times, or did she just "give in" to avoid an argument? If the former were true, maybe doing something special and romantic for your wife might set the mood. If you were to do this, I wouldn't go into it with any expectations other than doing something nice for the person you love and having a romantic evening. Even if you just ended up making out a bit, that would be nice and might be a bit of progress.

Maybe try communicating to your wife that you'd like to just be closer to her, even if it doesn't end in sex. I had a good friend who went five years without having sex with her husband. She told me that after a while, no-sex just became the norm in their relationship, and the longer they went without it the harder it was to get back into regular sex. They were finally able to do so with the help of a counselor, but it took work. She told me that one way they worked on this issue was to start flirting with each other, playfully and with no expectation, regularly. They also made a point of having a date night once a week (you could do once every two weeks if your wife would prefer). Again, no expectation of sex and they would agree ahead of time that if they didn't have sex it was totally okay, that this was just a time for them to be together and have a fun night out. They made a point of holding hands, kissing, hugging, etc. just to sort of put the whole idea of physical contact back on the table. And after a while, it worked. Low pressure, focus on spending time with each other and being a little more physically demonstrative.

The other thing I'd suggest would be talking to your wife about getting checked out by her gyno. It might be that she's experiencing some hormonal changes (how old is she?), or that she's on some medication that lowers her libido. The one time in my life when I lost my sex drive was when I was taking one particular medication--once I stopped the medication I got it back immediately. Her doctor might be able to suggest something to increase her drive. And if everything checks out normal, you'll at least know that her issue is probably emotional or psychological, and that will give you some answers and hopefully guide you toward a solution.

I assume you've discussed the sex issue with the MC?

I wish you all the luck!  I know this is tough.
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 05:31:55 PM »

Oh, also--she might try taking a combination of Maca root and Dong Quai, if she's open to taking herbal supplements. They are good for reproductive health and some women have described this combination as "girl Viagra."   Being cool (click to insert in post)
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 05:32:18 PM »

I'm wondering if there is such a thing as radical forgiveness.

Happy:  I can understand why a woman can reject her husband on this issue. Sometimes it just has to wait until both parties are comfortable with everything.  

For me the constant rejection lead to a big hit to my self esteem.  It's not that I feel like "I am man and I have to do this because that's what men do".  I need it to feel they connection because she would push me away so often and deny all affection and intimacy.  The 1-2 times per year were the only times I could get that close.  The rejections remained constant and after years of it it was more humialting than anything else.  How could I not even be able to get a date with my own wife. How can she say one thing but never have the actions to follow.  I turned all of this inward.  Instead of getting mad at her I started getting mad at myself.  I don't know what goes through a persons mind with BPD but I think some of the things I've told nysejf over the years comes close.  
 

Most days now I think I'm the one with the personality disorder.  I would love to be able to turn off some of the things I remember and feel.  To be able to block out the bad the way she seems to be able to do.  But I'm stuck with them in my head constantly trying to get out and remind me that I'm a horrible person and to wreck any self esteem I rebuild.  Sorry I got lost there.  That's what I want to try and remove... .the resentment.  I can forgive her but I'm not sure I can forgive myself for allowing it to happen.  How do you forgive yourself?
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 05:50:09 PM »

Helena, thanks for the reply.  It's is a big topic in therapy.  I wish there was a way to duplicate the events that lead up to it happening but it doesn't seem possible.  After lengthy discussions about what helps her be in the mood I'm at a loss.  She said that the closeness and affection help along with communication and everything else.  She then turns around and says that just because we have these things still doesn't mean she will be in the mood for sex.  She said that she needs all if that but still may not be in the mood.  In therapy and in private  she will say she feels more attracted to me now and she's in the mood more often but there is not much follow through. The last few times it felt more like she was checking the box and giving in because I was upset. 

It gets more fun from there.  If I do anything special for her she will assume it's because I want to have sex.  Bring her flowers it's because I want to have sex.  Ask her to dinner it's only for that reason.  Spend time with her it's for that reason.  She blames me and says that I'm the one who made her think this way but I have never stipulated sex as a justification for anything I do for her.  I am a gift giver and frequently give her gifts.  Nothing expensive but just little things.  But because I bought her flowers one day after we did have sex she says I only bring her flowers if I want to have sex or if we did.  It doesn't matter that the sex happens once or twice a year and I bring home flowers at least once a month or more.  It's now associated with sex and a negative. 

She has gone to her gyno and they tell her she's normal (42yo).  She's in anti depressants and the only one that doesn't lower libido doesn't seem to work.  But she still claims to be in the mood several times a month now, she just doesn't seem to want to get past the affection stage and go any further. 

I'm at the point of accepting that it may never change.  I just need to learn to accept it.  That's the most difficult thing in the world for me, I don't want to give up.  If I could give up then I would have probably left a long time ago. 
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mssalty
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 06:22:20 PM »

Honestly, it's hard for me, because I feel like there is always a score in our relationship, I'm always on the losing side, and the rules are against me.   

Today I asked my SO to do something.  They got very upset.  I asked them to do it anyway.  It was a very simple request, and one that, had I refused, I would have been grilled until I did it.  Later I asked them about the request and if anything had come of it, and they bit my head off.   

My SO often tells me I'm too short and mean with them.  I feel guilty and question my own actions.   

But I'm slowly realizing that it's not really me.  Like anyone else, I have good days and bad days, and unlike many others, my SO (and I would argue many with BPD), has no real grasp of the emotions of others.  Yes, they can pick up when something is wrong, but they have no idea how to process that information.  If you're angry or frustrated, it's with them (even if it's not) and damn it, it better stop. 

It feels isolating, and it makes me resentful.  But I'm trying not to be. 
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 06:55:33 PM »

So I'm pretty much resigned to handling things myself so to speak.  I'm never going to cheat because I refuse to break that vow.

You can "take things into your own hands". It isn't the same, but it is more than nothing. (Perhaps porn or other aids will help?)

Cheating is something you say you won't do.

She could release you from the vow, giving you permission to have sex with somebody else, although I don't think this is very likely... .and even discussing that possibility is likely to set her off.

This is a difficult situation, without BPD. Unfortunately, BPD makes it so much worse. Among other things, the intimacy of sex is probably really hard for her to handle, and she copes by blaming you for all of it and projecting it all on you ("You make everything about sex... ." etc.)

And I don't know that radical acceptance of a life with sex a few times a year is going to prevent resentment. Honestly, I think I would be resentful in your shoes.
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HelenaHandbasket
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 12:04:15 AM »

Hmc, bless your heart.  I can't even imagine how much harder this situation would be with a borderline partner. As Grey Kitty said, it's tough enough without BPD in the mix.

This is a little awkward to say, but hey, this forum's anonymous so here goes. I apologize in advance if this is too graphic for this forum (I'm new here). But I wonder if it would help at all for you guys to explore other types of sexual contact (other than p-in-v sex).  I have a medical condition that makes it really painful for me to be penetrated, so my husband and I had to get creative, and in the 15 years we've been married we've only had p-in-v sex about a dozen times.  But we have a VERY active and happy sex life.  We do a lot of oral and manual stuff, and our personal favorite, frottage (basically, this is naked and lubed-up "dry" humping). I wonder if incorporating something like this--just touching each other with your hands, or oral sex, might make your partner feel less pressured.  You could make it clear to her ahead of time that you don't expect this to end in intercourse. Could lower the pressure a bit.

BUT. I know all this is much easier said than done, and it sounds like there is a lot of emotional baggage involved in your situation, which is of course going to make it more difficult to find a solution. Add BPD and it's even more difficult.  I sincerely hope you and your wife can work this out, and I wish you peace.  Hang in there.
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lenfan
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2017, 09:43:31 AM »

Wow, I have been looking at these post a while and was working up the nerve to make my first post, but your situation is so similar to mine I have to take the plunge. I share your situation and feelings.  There is an older thread on the site called “No More Sex.” I was thinking of posting there and you may want to take a look, but it seems no one there had any answers.  I don’t have much to offer you other than letting you know you’re not alone. This is my first post, so please forgive the length.  Here is my situation.
   After 22 years of marriage in a relationship that began over 25 years ago, I am just now discovering that I have been coping with someone who at the least has strong borderline traits; high functioning, primarily hermit type. I am in a confused state alternating between a sense of disbelief; saying “Naaa… this can’t be happening, I must be exaggerating things” to more often nodding my head, saying  “Oh my God, this is a text book case. How could I have missed it?” Then, back to “Naaa . . .she’s a good  person, it must be me." I think this is because my wife is so high functioning.  The little I knew about BPD before I started researching this was of the more dramatic “low functioning” type.
  She is very attractive and looks 20 years younger than her age. She is a respected and loved teacher; successful, intelligent, athletic, artistic  and charming. She as ALL of the positive characteristics listed in WOE. We still have good times, shared interests and happy memories.  The problem is she also has most all of the behaviors of the high functioning BPD, hermit in described in WOE,  with  a lot of mini Jeckyl and Hyde moments, where Hyde comes out mostly just  for me. Constant nagging, eye-rolls, sighs, criticism, complaints and put downs - - --any of them alone might not seem like a big deal but the constant barrage is like death by 10,000 paper cuts. There are abrupt mood swings, blaming, circular arguments, idealization and devaluation (she even does it with brand name products), excessive worrying, overprotective parenting, and controlling behavior. She proudly claims an inability to trust. She can be nasty and angry about a little thing, as if it was the most important thing in the world, say some cutting put down, and 5 minutes later act like everything is fine and joke around. She cannot let go of past grievances (some admittedly legitimate), and sulks.  Like others I have read here, I can been blamed for something she dreamed.  She is constantly cleaning and tidying, and can’t stand anything out of place.    I copied and pasted this from another thread. This describes her to a T:
"The Hermit is "a perfectionist, a worrier, and . . . an insomniac. . . Hermit mothers suffer from persistent fantasies of harm coming to themselves or others, and tend to attribute hostile intentions to others."
   She deprives me of sex (effectively a sexless marriage for many years now), in hurtful ways. She acts angry when I bring up the topic and says I am badgering her even if I haven’t mentioned it in weeks;  but she  calls me “gay” if I speak well of male friends .  I keep nodding my head when I read these posts. She has not done any of the extreme things like distortion campaigns or self- harm, but now that I am understanding  that this is probably a real personality disorder,  I worry that she could be triggered in a worse direction. We have one teenage child, who is very bright but has anxiety and social phobia. After taking a high school psychology course, and never having discussed it with me before, she stated out of the blue one day “I wonder if Mum has BPD.” I have gone out of my way to avoid conflict for her sake.
   Looking back, this seems like a classic case of Hermit/ Huntsman with a few of the other traits thrown in.   I was very inexperienced, insecure, eager- to- please and play the role of a hero when we met.  I was very vulnerable to idealization from a beautiful accomplished woman who seemed to think I could do no wrong, even when I told her all my faults in plain English. She quickly won over all my family and friends. Now I see that there were some small early warning signs that I dismissed at the time and ignored as we got deeper into the relationship. I was just starting my career and my father had passed away not too long before she started putting the pressure on to get married. From what I have read, I was a perfect target for a BPD. Depending on how you want to spin it, the marriage can be seen as limping on dysfunctionaly for two decades, or an enduring testament to our commitment to stay together despite obstacles.  Her own parents have had a 50 plus year marriage of constant bickering.  It is a safe bet that her entire immediate family, parents and sibs----all fun, attractive and charming on the surface--- have strong BPD traits. The in-laws who have married into the family often act as an informal support group, comparing similar behaviors.( My sister-in-law once said that my wife’s family “All treat their spouses like sh**.”)  Remarkably, they seem to see these traits in each other, but not in themselves.
   I am very discouraged and often miserable. There is some relief with a better understanding of what this is and knowing that there is some support out there, and that she is not as nearly as bad as many of the stories I am reading about.  But, letting go of the delusion that I can really fix this, and accepting that the best I can hope for is to manage it, is hard. 
  The sexual deprivation is the most difficult thing to deal  with lately.  It’s frustrating, and very damaging to my self-esteem. Before understanding I am probably dealing with BPD, I tried approaching the subject with upfront rational discussion; tenderness and affection; flattery; bribery;  losing weight/ getting fit (not that I was ever really out of shape as she said);  begging;  bargaining; ignoring her; guilt; and doing all I can to please her. Nothing worked and it is like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. I have not tried an ultimatum or trying to make her jealous.  I know those would only create conflict.  The only thing that got some concession was getting so angry that I stormed off, and another occasion where I was so despondent that I was reduced to tears, which was quite humiliating. After something like that, we’ll have a long discussion about having some regularity, but there’s always some excuse or she’s obviously in a bad mood,  and the next thing you know, weeks  and then several  months go by and we are back to square 1 again, and it’s like she doesn’t remember we had the discussion before. She hates therapists and made it clear that would never go to one, or a marriage counselor.   One of her typical responses to my protests or suggestions that things are not right on her end is “You just don’t understand women.”
The WOE tools have been working pretty well, at least they have been effective in keeping things from escalating, and that also suggests to me that I really am dealing with something on the BPD spectrum. Dealing with all of this is exhausting. It takes time from my business, which adds to financial pressure, which puts more strain on the marriage. I have been resentful towards her too, but some of that has gone away with accepting that she did not choose this. On the other hand, sometimes now I start seeing her as collection of symptoms more than a person, which makes me feel guilty and sad. I’m reaching out anonymously because I know she’d blow up if she ever saw this. I feel deceitful posting this because we value honesty, but the fact that my first impulse is to hide this, tells me I’m not wrong in my assessment of what I’m dealing with.  Any suggestions for another newbie here? Has anyone been able to resurrect their sex lives with a BPD spouse? How?  My own T suggested a very gradual patient approach by reintroducing small gestures of physical closeness short of sex, and moving forward from there (like helenahandbasket suggested), but it is easier said than done there has been little progress.  None of Grey Kitty’s 3 paths look very appealing and I am pretty much stuck at trying to minimize path 1 with mindfulness and “handling things on my own” as far as path 2 goes. Like you, hcmbart, cheating and divorce are not options I want to consider.    There must be some other paths we are overlooking? Any advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated.

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Hmcbart
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Relationship status: Married for 17 years and together for 19.
Posts: 486



« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 10:42:25 AM »

Helena:  thank you for the advice.  I wish I could say that I will try them to see if it works, but unfortunately I already have tried different options.  Oral is a no go area as she has never done it and refuses to even talk about it.  Other options were also tossed out because "if we are going to do that then we may as well have regular intercourse".  That was followed up with how she's just not in the mood.  Sadly because it happens so infrequently I rarely get to finish myself. I believe it's because I'm now used to doing it myself.  Of course when I say this to her she gets defensive and tells me that hearing this is a turn off and doesn't help her to be in the mood more often.  Our MC also suggested the non-sexual intimacy to help get her in the mood.  It only succeeds in her telling me later that she was in the mood but didn't act on it.  I have trouble trying to initiate anything out if fear she will turn me down yet again.  So it's trial and error but mostly error. 

Lenfan:  I feel for you. I'm glad you were able to find this place.  Like you I never caught on to what was happening until it was too late.  We've been together for 22 years and I was so blind that I missed all the signs until about 3 years ago.  I was looking for ways to change me to be better so maybe she would be happy and stumbled onto this website.  It's been an eye opener but some days I wish I'd never learned any of it.  Ignorance truly is bliss. 

Reading your post it sounds like we are the same people.  My wife comes from a home of multiple divorces.  Both parent have been through 3 spouses.  She has a twin sister and from what I have been hearing from others in the family she is the same and her husband is dealing with it also.  I'm just more vocal these days no longer afraid to talk about it. 

I laughed out loud at  your comment about her getting mad at you because of something she dreamed.  I have had that happen a few times.  The first time I was laughing so hard because it was comical.  The silent treatment lasted 3 weeks after that.  It happened again just last month.  No matter how much you tell them it was just a dream it doesn't matter.  I told her I had a dream i was in a nuclear war and flying a world war 2 FU Corsair fighter plane but I don't think it's really going to happen.  That didn't go over well.

I've used the Charlie Brown analogy so many times.  It is perfectly fitting to the situation. When it comes to sex,  I've tried everything I can think of, everything my therapist can think of, everything two marriage counselors can think of, and half of what I've read on the internet.  Bargaining, bribing, flirting, you and it I've tried it. These things are the reasons she now says all I care about is sex. I get told I'm nagging if I ask more than one or two times.  I've threatened, I've cried, I've begged (very emasculating by the way), I've jumped through every hoop she has put out for me, all to no avail. After finally realizing that none of her excuses made sense, my self esteem took a major hit.  I've had no real evidence of her cheating so I can't use that.  I give up and then I find the courage to go on again.  I used to only cycle through giving up 1-2 times a year but now it's 1-2 times a week.  I always find a way to get through it and move forward again. 

My oldest son is 14 and he has taken the most damage I think.  Before I finally grew a pair and out my foot down she would rage at him for little things.  She would treat him the way she had treated me.  After a voicemail about 4 years ago where she was calling me because she was upset at him not understanding his homework, she was telling into the phone and saying he was so f-ing stupid. I could hear him crying in the background and our younger son (4yrs she difference) also crying because he was scared to death.  I put a stop to it and told her it will never happen again. I didn't even have to spell out what I would do at that point. She knew by the tone in my voice.  She went to therapy and "discovered" that she was angry at me and taking it out on our son. She never hit him but the verbal abuse was more damaging I think.  She would constantly run him down saying he was fat.  Our youngest learned from all of this and now I'm concerned he is going to end up with an eating disorder because he has made several comments about being fat.  I'm ranting now, sorry for getting side tracked.

I'm still trying to find the magic formula to resurrect my wed kife with her.  So far things have technically improved as it's been 3 times this year. Granted 2 of these happened after I got tired of hearing her excuses why she couldn't after promising she would.  At this point I'm looking for any forward progress to help me believe and trust her words.  I take it day by day and don't expect anything. I found that when I get my hopes up and expect her to do what she says the resentment grows exponentially.  Sadly the lack of hope is easier to deal with. 

I've come to the conclusion that if you want to truly break a man down and destroy him, give him hope and then take it away over and over.  Repeat this enough and he will have nothing left. 
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 10:45:20 AM »

Ok, I apologize for the novel I just wrote.  I'm thinking of making it into a movie, kind of like Batman but with a twist. Should get PG-13 rating because there won't be a sex scene.   
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 10:48:35 AM »

oh what a tough topic.  I have the opposite problem, which may provide a different perspective... .My dBPDh wants sex all.the.time.  We have had more fights than I can count on this subject.  Since he is very mean and cruel in arguments I have become a different person when it comes to sex now... .and it is a sad, emotionless, paranoid, unattached event.  An event that I make sure happens EVERY DAY in order to avoid being called names like "cold" and "frigid" or threats to get his needs met elsewhere.  Which he has done anyway. This adds another aspect - thinking I really suck at performing, and there are way too many things going on in my head to even think of enjoying sex for myself.  It is degrading.  And on top of this he is angry because he doesn't want sex to be a chore or duty that I perform.  Since all hope of actually desiring sex and having my own needs met, I now must become an actress and pretend I enjoy each day's encounter.  I'm actually afraid to lay my head on my pillow until his needs have been met, lest I fall asleep before hand and give more fuel to his ever-burning fire.  And yet during other moments he is all "I don't want us to be this way", and all kinds of nice lovey talk that is so contradictory to what he says when we argue that now I just nod and agree numbly.  This has seriously messed with my head and as a result I feel nothing as far as sex is concerned.  Oh what I would give to feel some real passion and desire again... . 

I guess what I'm getting at is perhaps your SO has had some sort of bad experience(s) in regard to sex that has her head messed up?  OR, may she is the one breaking her vows?  Or maybe it is her way of having control.  Who really knows with a BPD... .   
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2017, 11:28:05 AM »

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this "Y".  I don't believe anyone should ever feel the way you have been made to feel.  I will admit that I have asked and even threatened to have my needs met elsewhere.  I did it more to try and get my point across that 1-2 times a year wasn't acceptable.  After begging and jumping through all her hoops I was out of ideas.  This turned out to be a major mistake because everything I said was twisted around later and used to justify why she was not in the mood.  She has told me that I make her feel the way you just said you feel.  But I have never been mean and cruel about any of it.  Of course it doesn't matter how nicely I say I want it to happen more often it gets twisted to say I was being mean and cruel. 

As far as some bad experience, if there was she'd never said anything to me or the therapist.  I've had 3 therapist in the last 4 years and everyone have asked that same question when this topic was brought up.  If she's is or has broken our vows I have never had any real proof of it. There was a time when I thought that but I couldn't really prove it and the guy I suspected died a few years ago so I can't ask him or I would.  I do believe it's more about control.  She knows I won't leave for anything other than cheating, that's my line that should never be crossed.  Especially after  what she's put me through and still haven't cheated, that would be the end.  I think it's more of sexual anorexia or something along those lines but after bringing it up she only turned it around and said the symptoms sounded liked me. 

Last year she found some of my books about BPD on the iPad.  She read some of it and after I had told her I needed to talk to her she brought it up.  I was ready to walk out that day.  She said she read it and felt that she does have this.  I thought it was a pivotal moment and we would finally be able to work on the real issues we've been dealing with for so long.  I offered to help and be understanding while she worked through it.  Here it is almost a year later and the subject has never been brought up again.  She is sticking to the diagnosis of depression for her feelings and actions.  She's been on multiple different medications and different dosages.  Of course all if these have loss of libido as a side effect.  The only real upside is that she has stopped with the rages and extreme anger so there is that.  The only time she really gets mad now is when the subject of sex comes up.  That's still a topic that we can't seem to discuss.  Even in MC it gets heated.  She will say how much she enjoys it when it happens and wants it to be more often then it gets push aside and treated like it's not important. 

I do feel for you in your situation.  I don't think anyone should take something as sacred and beautiful as this and twist it and make it bad. 
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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2017, 01:02:55 PM »

Hmc, I'm so sorry you're going through this. And I'm sure I'm not really helping with all the advice--it's one of my issues that I try to be a problem solver and I often give people advice they've already tried (I'm SURE my brother, whose wife is borderline, would agree with this!), which I'm sure can be frustrating to hear. 

You asked about how to avoid feeling resentful.  I don't know if it's possible under these circumstances, but maybe it will help to know that you're not alone, that you didn't do anything to deserve this situation and what you're feeling is human and understandable.

I do think you may need to really think hard (huh--as if you haven't already, I know) about what you're getting out of this relationship.  Are you trying to be a rescuer?  Are you getting your human needs met?  Remember they don't hand out medals for putting up with this stuff.  I know whereof I speak.  Right now I have an awesome husband and an awesome marriage, but years ago I was in an abusive relationship with a guy who I now suspect was an actual, real-life sociopath.  I stayed because I thought I loved him, because I wanted to "save" him, because he'd been through HORRIBLE things in his past and I felt like his problems weren't really his fault, because I didn't want to give up on him like everybody else in his life had, etc.  All I got out of that in the end was pain, and self-esteem problems that took over a decade to sort out.  I know this stuff is hard to hear, and that might not be anything like what's going on with you and your wife.  I just want you to be sure you're living the life you want to live--as far as we know, we only get one.     Hang in there man.  You seem like a good guy.
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2017, 01:07:20 PM »

Ythisroad, I was really troubled reading your post.  This sounds like an absolutely soul-crushing situation for you!  I know it's much easier said than done, because you'd have to deal with fallout, but I really think you need to set some boundaries here.  This really sounds like almost abusive behavior on your SO's part.  Does he know you feel this way?
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2017, 01:23:14 PM »



Thank you for your kind words Hmc - it does help being able to talk about it I guess... . at least I know I'm not entirely crazy Smiling (click to insert in post)

yes, Helena - this is what the fights are always about.  Same old fights after 30 years... .it feels to me like he believes all the porn he's watched is how all women feel about sex.  We should like it and want it all day every day in all positions and contortions.  For many years I thought something was wrong with me.  I'm a little better now, there was a period he was going to prison and I re-found myself - which has added to our struggle.  But in the end his intensity of anger and explosiveness wins.  And then the next day everything is fine.

But this isn't my post and I wasn't trying to make it about me... .Smiling (click to insert in post)

I do know that when my dBPDh was first diagnosed he was prescribed Zoloft, which took away his libido - he hated that so badly he refused to take it.  (was a nice break for me, but also screwed with my head knowing his normal appetite and now his frustration).  I felt like our family had a more peaceful time while he was taking the med, so was disappointed when he stopped.  I wish he would have returned to the doc who prescribed it and asked about alternatives or dosages.  I'm reading the book "Get Me Out of Here" the story of Rachel Reiland's recovery from BPD and she talks about the many times she had to have her meds adjusted before they found the right combination and dosages that worked.  Unfortunately my dBPDh was only seeing that doc because he signed himself up for out-patient drug treatment hoping to get a job back.  Therefore he is no longer getting care.  Any chance you have some input with your SO's doc?  
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2017, 01:37:16 PM »

Helena: thanks for any and all advice.  I may have tried most things but I know I haven't tried everything.  With enough people there is bound to be something new to learn about.

"y"- feel free to post anything you need to.  I have hijacked my share of threads and I don't mind if you take over mine.  Talking about it does help.  Hearing we are not alone helps, especially when struggling to get out of the FOG. 
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« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »

Oral is a no go area as she has never done it and refuses to even talk about it.  Other options were also tossed out because "if we are going to do that then we may as well have regular intercourse".

When you say oral is a no go area, I would expect (from the rest of your story) that this would apply to her giving you oral sex. What about you giving her oral sex?

Have you offered? Has she ever asked or expressed interest?

If she's rejected this before, or hasn't ever considered it, never mind... .I doubt it will change anything. If you've never thought about it, start thinking about it!

... .but my assessment is that this isn't about physical sex acts for her. It is about the intimacy and connection she would feel if the two of you had sex. She's not willing and capable, and it is about mental illness and inability to be emotionally vulnerable, instead of anything about the physical aspects of sex.

... .Y, you are on the other side of this same problem--your partner isn't capable of being emotionally present and connected with you with sex. But instead of having both sex and connection withheld from you, you are having the connection withheld and being pressured to have sex and feeling used.

Ugh. My heart goes out to both of you.
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2017, 06:54:02 PM »

Grey:  in the past she enjoyed receiving oral even though she would never return the favor. She always said she enjoyed it and never said anything negative about it.  Somewhere along the way, about 4-5 years ago she flipped and said she didn't enjoy it and never has.  I was puzzled but she was adiment that she had never liked it and had told me this before.  I'm pretty good a remembering things and I'm positive that conversation never happened. 

Not sure if I'm restating something with this next part.  A few weeks ago we had a discussion that wasn't an argument about sex.  I was explaining what it means to me and the emotional connection that I get even without the actual physical finally. She told me that if she didn't finish then she doesn't have that emotional connection.  She then clarified to say if both of us don't finish she doesn't have the emotional connection and has trouble being in the mood for weeks after.  I think the clarification was due to my inability to finish each time but I'm pretty good at making sure she does. So that adds a new twist of pressure for me. If I can't finish for what ever reason then she will use that as a reason why she can't or won't do it again for a while.  It's been 4-6 weeks this year but I'm sure that's going to get stretched longer.  My words are always her next excuse.

She has just started taking a new depression medicine this week. So she takes one in the AM and one at night.  The new one has put her to sleep quite literally. She has been in bed for the last 72 hours other than maybe 3-4 hours Monday and about 1 hour yesterday.  I'm getting a bit worried about that. 
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2017, 12:23:11 AM »

What you've said pretty much confirms that her actions are consistently working to avoid sex... .and to direct the blame for it onto you and away from her.

She may not realize she's doing it, she probably doesn't understand why she's doing it.

But she's not going to change it. Not without major improvements throughout your relationship with her.

Honestly, if you cannot work on the r/s, using the best tools here, despite your resentment about this (admittedly horrible!) treatment of you regarding sex, I'm really skeptical that you can make this work. Or make it work any better than it is now, anyways.
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 11:44:09 AM »

Thanks for the reply hcmbart. I ‘m just going to throw out a few random bullet points on some thoughts I have had since reading these posts because I am at work and don’t have time to compose  a good narrative. Doing this from home is not an option.
*Your comment about the destructive power of hopes being dashed was moving. I don’t think the best course of action is to give up hoping or trying, but maybe to keep the hopes and efforts measured. Like the expression goes, prepare for the worst but hope for the best.
*The flip side to “Ignorance is bliss” is “knowledge is power.”  This all wasn’t something we could have figured out 20 odd years ago when our relationships began because there wasn’t much info out there, the science was new, the books weren’t written and the internet was just getting started. The positive spin we can put on this is that it‘s something of an accomplishment to have held together as well as we have despite stumbling in the dark. I feel better after learning about this. Not great, but better.
*Same goes for how you have done your best to protect your kids.
* Some of the resentment  I am trying to let go of deals with how my daughter and I are seeing therapists and working hard to overcome our anxieties; while my upwBPD spouse doesn’t think she has any problem and refuses to consider therapy for herself.  Arrghh!
* Back when I thought this was “just” a libido issue, I got a book at the library by a woman who said in the title about how she liked chocolate better than sex.  I think she is divorced now, but she made a pretty strong case that he male libido is just  a gazillion times stronger than the female libido, and how our culture (men and women) should not make women feel bad about it. I tried taking that into account, but the BPD just adds a whole new, larger and difficult dimension. I think power and fear of intimacy account for more than gender  biology for all the posters here. I agree with Grey that Y’s situation is a flip side of ours. Emotionally painful either way. 
*I mentioned how my wife looks 20 years younger than her age. I looked young for my age once but now look older than my age. I swear this is taking a toll on me. I kind of resent that too, but am trying to let that go.
*Speaking of resentment,  I feel resentment every time I see one of those Cialis ads with beautifully aging couples walking hand in hand on the beach and dancing in the kitchen. . . Yeah,  Right.    As a joke with maybe a molecule of seriousness, I shot my wife a “come hither”  look, like the guy on TV, during one of those ads when we were watching a show we like.  She rolled her eyes and groaned. We both laughed.  Humor is good. It was a nice moment in an odd way.  I wonder if I could have used that as an opening to have a discussion, but I didn’t want to wreck the tranquility.
* I’m on your pace at about 3X’s a year on average. 2 to 3 reliable times a month would make me happy  too.   Our last encounter was on my birthday in January. She seemed to be into it and having a good time. I thought we were on our way to righting the course, but nope.
* I have some resentment in that some total strangers in cyberspace get exactly how bad I feel in a matter of minutes, while my life partner is completely clueless, even though I have told her in plain English. Arrggh
*The worst “technique” I used to try to get her interested again was to ignore her, make no overtures, and wait for her to make a move, in a kind of reverse psychology theory. (I noticed she had a contrarian streak once when, after years of nagging me about my diet, she offhandedly started buying me candy when I gave up chocolate for lent. Unfortunately, the trait  didn’t  carry over to a more useful subject matter. )  She didn’t seem to even notice and it just made the routine of no sex more normal.  My advice, for what it is worth to anyone out there, is to always keep the issue on the table, diplomatically.
* In other respects, the detach, validate and wait- and –it- will- blow over approach has worked well in dealing with the BPD traits.  No JADE, no escalation. It works. But, getting a proactive effort on her part eludes me.
* My wife can be flirtatious and playful by text but it never goes anywhere in person (I once sent her a text with the same kind of language she had recently used in one of her texts, and she replied to stop sending her “dirty” texts. Go figure.)
*I’m not giving up on the relationship or on having some reasonable semblance of a sex life. I’m going to
give it another go this weekend. Wish me luck.
*I won’t be able to go on this site over the weekend. In the future, I’ll monitor this thread and also post if I learn anything that can help the cause.
* This went longer than I planned, but it has helped me. Thank you for making the initial post and getting it started.
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« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 01:08:03 PM »

The part about total strangers in cyberspace getting it but her being clueless is sadly true. 

I have also tried the ignore it to see how long it takes her to realize I stopped "nagging" her about it.  I even told a friend that I was cutting her off from sex, it was comical just to say it.  It lasted 6 months before she said anything at all.  What she did say surprised even me.  She accused me of cheating on her and said she had spoken to a friend and lawyer who told her it sounded like I was planing to leave her.  I was completely confused by it all.  I told her that I had decided 6 months ago not to bring up sex at all to see how long it took you to say something or offer to be with me. Instead of thinking "hey, I better start trying to be with my husband because he may be giving up completely" you go with saying I'm cheating on you?  Really?  If I was going to cheat I would have started the first couple of years you started withholding sex and affection.  It's been easily 12 years now and I still haven't cheated!

She apologized and told me how she was going to change and she understands and blah blah blah.  Then she never brought it up again.  I still didn't ask for sex and she still didn't bring it up either for another 2 months. 

When my therapist asked me how many times a week I would like it to happen, after I stopped laughing 10 minutes later, I said weekly? I don't look at it in terms of weekly or monthly anymore.  I told her that when I had a vasectomy done about 8 years ago, the doctor told me we needed to have sex 30-40 times with protection and then come back to be tested to make sure the procedure worked.  At the rate I'm going my appointment is set for June 22, 2032, give it take a year. 

My therapist asked me to try but with discernment.  Instead of giving 100% and placing total trust in her words, give 90% but with caution to avoid letting myself get hurt.  Pretty much what you're saying "hope for the best but prepare for the worst."

Grey Kitty:  I agree completely about the her blaming me for her lack of actions. That's been a common practice for years.  I called her out on this a few years ago.  After her raging at me for about an hour she relented. I was calm throughout the entire exchange, almost Zen like.  I was at peace when I brought it up and remained there through out.  That doesn't happen often but it was nice to hold my emotions in check during the exchange.  After she was done she finally admitted to blaming me for it all and for the hoops she's made me jump through.  She said she was sorry and was never going to do that to me again.  I was at peace and even believed her because the admission was a break through for us. Fast forward about 36 hours and she was already doing it again.  When I told her what she was doing and how she had just admitted to doing it a day and a half ago, her reply was priceless. She said that she didn't admit to doing that. She said that in the distant past she had but not in many years, I must have misunderstood her when we were talking before.  Classic crazy making behavior. 

So yes, it's not likely to ever change.  She makes occasional progress only to slip back again. Fortunately for her and unfortunately for me, I don't like to quit anything. I'd be the last guy on board the Titanic, steadily throwing water overboard with a pail refusing to give up hope.  So yes, I have my own disorders to deal with.  We make a great pair, she won't try and I won't quit.
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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2017, 02:03:28 PM »

Sadly, when it comes to things like withholding sex, you (as a decent person) cannot and would not do anything to force her. Ultimately, there isn't much you can do to change that dynamic. In your shoes, I'd give up on having a satisfactory sex life with her, or even a significant one.

Grey Kitty:  I agree completely about the her blaming me for her lack of actions. That's been a common practice for years.  I called her out on this a few years ago.  After her raging at me for about an hour she relented.

This, however, is something you CAN change, and trust me, if you manage to change it, life will be much better for you, and paradoxically, could well improve for your wife as well. (eventually)

Stop letting her blame you.

Stop letting her rage at you.

OK, you can't really stop her from doing either thing, but you can remove yourself from her presence immediately.

Yes, she will resist. She will accuse you/blame you/etc., saying that you are making things worse by trying to leave. She will probably follow you around the house, perhaps follow you out the door if you leave.

Don't try to convince her of anything, other than one very simple thing: Let your actions show her that you will not stay present for this kind of verbal abuse, rage, attack, blaming, etc. Do it consistently.

Have you tried this before? Have you tried but gotten beaten down and failed?
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« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2017, 03:11:27 PM »

I have actually gotten really good at removing myself from the really bad situations. I started doing it several years ago.  It does cause her abandonment fears to kick in even though I tell her I'm just leaving until things calm down a bit.

Her rages have gotten a lot better.   As far as blaming me for her not doing what she says she will do.  That's a work in progress.  I let her know everytime she does it.  She doesn't agree that she's doing it but I don't accept blame unless I'm truly at fault for something.  If she twists my words around to blame me later I let her know what was actually said.  I started keeping very detailed notes a few years ago because I wouldn't remember what I was being accused of and just assumed I said what every it was.  That doesn't happen very often now, I always make sure to see if I'm guilty before accepting responsibility. 
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2017, 04:57:55 PM »

As far as blaming me for her not doing what she says she will do.  That's a work in progress.  I let her know everytime she does it.  She doesn't agree that she's doing it... .

Yes, that is a work in progress. Letting her blame you for things you didn't do, etc. is another form of verbal abuse... .and letting her know/calling her on it isn't usually the best approach.

You see, she really believes/feels that way when she does it, so if you try to contradict her / prove her wrong (because she is wrong, afterall!), you are invalidating her... .and the general result of that is that she gets more upset, and she doesn't back down or change her mind, at least that's what I'd bet.

Better is to state your position that you don't agree, ONCE and only once, and then enforce the boundary that you will not be discussing this with her anymore. And get away from her like you would if she was raging, assuming she doesn't willingly drop the issue.

Like the raging, blaming you is an unhealthy coping mechanism for her. While it does help her manage some of her emotions, it isn't in a healthy way for her. And the impact on you is completely bad. You may *think* you can avoid being damaged by this stuff, but it really does add up, and really does have an impact on you. So removing yourself is the best thing you can do for either of you.
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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2017, 08:23:27 PM »

Seriously guys, Maca root and Dong Quai. It's a potent combination for boosting the female libido. They are also good for reproductive health, so there are other benefits too.  You can get both from Amazon or any decent health food or vitamin store. If the antidepressants are a factor here, which seems very likely, this might go a long way toward remedying the situation.  It won't solve the emotional/relationship problems, but if her sex drive gets a boost then she might be more willing to make fixing your sex life a priority. 
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 07:34:47 AM »

HLHNDBSKT: I'm on board with the natural supplements but how do I tactfully bring up the subject with my uBPDw and not trigger the whole underlying argument again? I could buy some and leave it around the house for her to "discover"?   Sounds kinds of silly and passive/aggressive to do that but being direct usually gets a direct negative response. Ideas?
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Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

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Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



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