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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: The wheels are coming off in our co-parent arrangement  (Read 905 times)
half-life
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« on: June 09, 2017, 10:50:03 AM »

[Part 1] Three years after our separation, the wheels are now coming off in our co-parent arrangement. When we first separated, we put our children first. We shared the details about the kids and coordinated in our effort. It was one thing that we did well together.

These days, she has turned hostile toward me. She decided that we can only communicate via email and text from now on. This is apparently begin under the pressure of her new beau. I know very little about him. They are still LD but he is due to move here soon. I have no ill feeling toward him. Actually I have thought about introducing myself and make friend. I thought it is better if he is going to play a role in our children's life.

He doesn't seems to share this feeling. STBX first told me drop off the kids at the door instead of coming inside our martial home as I used to do. My presence seems to trigger the beau. (They seems be on video chat all the time). I don't want to make it difficult for her and I don't mind changing this routine. Next she is erasing all traces of us from social media. I don't really care. It was her hostile attitude and her refusal to speak with me regarding the children's matter that is alarming.

One time I called her to ask about some summer camp detail. She told me to text her and then hang up. This would be less of a problem if she is good at communicating essential stuff by text. But it takes hours for her to clarify some trivial question. There are opened ended topic I wanted to discuss. I have no appetite to discuss this via text.

She rationalize this as a reasonable arrangement. I loudly protest she unilaterally cut off communication and demand a talk about our parenting arrangement. She has ignored my repeated request so far.
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half-life
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2017, 10:50:27 AM »

[Part 2] We went to the school to celebrate our son's promotion to middle school. We have been this kind of event a few times before. We always sat together like a family. This time I arrived last. She did not acknowledge me. She and our younger son were sitting at the bench and were eating. There was no space for left for me. She, however, has her handbag on the bench that could have moved to accommodate me. She didn't move and I didn't ask.

Instead I squat down next to my son. I acted my parent duty to attend to him and keep him tidy. It was super uncomfortable to squat down for a long time. It was also not safe as people are moving up and down the aisle behind me. When another parent we know shows up, she readily offer to move her handbag to let her sit down. She declined though.

I was very upset at this. If she don't want to speak to me it is her choice. I just want to sit next to my son. She care nothing about this. I feel resentful as I have been nice to her all the time. And what she did is really mean.

I want to write to her about this and tell her I was really upset. I want her to know she has acted mean. But I was hesitant because I know from experience nothing good would come out of this. She will not see my point but simply feel attacked. It does not matter if the criticism is fair and I phrase it in a well intentioned way.

But I don't want to let it slide. All these years I have avoided confronting her. It is not fair for me either. What do yo think?
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flourdust
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »

Just from what you've described, I don't see anything in what your ex is doing that is unreasonable. Actually, that's the sort of arrangement that I have been trying to enforce with my exBPDw. What you seem to want is a very involved collaborative parenting arrangement, which may work well for some couples that are low-conflict, friendly, and communicate well. But I think that's the exception more than the norm.

It is possible to reasonably coparent with limited communication, strict boundaries around residences, and no enmeshment in each other's lives. It sounds like a big shift to you, and you're reacting to that, but as long as essential information is communicated and parenting time is honored, what's the problem?
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Turkish
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2017, 02:12:31 AM »

Have you actually met him in person yet?
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half-life
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2017, 03:19:11 AM »

It is possible to reasonably coparent with limited communication, strict boundaries around residences, and no enmeshment in each other's lives. It sounds like a big shift to you, and you're reacting to that, but as long as essential information is communicated and parenting time is honored, what's the problem?

Thank you for the perspective.

I know for many people this is the best they can maintain. I can't imagine this is ideal for the children though. My son would play one parent against the other. I might tell my son you lost your game time because you do X improperly. He said I can do whatever I want in mom's place. I'd communicate with her and we both agree we need to be on the same page. Nope, no game time tomorrow whoever you are with because you did something improperly. This is how we were for 2.5 year.

I am open to structure our communication to be more confined and focused. The way it is, she just becomes hostile, difficult and unilaterally shutdown verbal communication. I even afraid to text her because I feel it would provoke her. I remember the days when even the most innocuous comment can incite a big conflict.

Another difficulty for me is she has the kids most of the time. So my access often have to go through her.
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half-life
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 03:21:43 AM »

Have you actually met him in person yet?

Only in one awkward situation. I met her at the kid's activity class. We exchanged words about the kids. Then she pointed to a guy behind me and introduced "this is X". X, who is he? She did not say anything further. I thought this person is some other parent of my son's friend. I took me a while to figure out who he is. I also didn't know they were dating at that time.
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flourdust
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2017, 04:24:06 PM »

My son would play one parent against the other. I might tell my son you lost your game time because you do X improperly. He said I can do whatever I want in mom's place. I'd communicate with her and we both agree we need to be on the same page. Nope, no game time tomorrow whoever you are with because you did something improperly.

Or, you enforce no game time at your place, and your ex does what she wants at her place, and vice versa. You should look up "parallel parenting," which is more effective for high-conflict couples.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2017, 10:16:05 AM »

Hi half-life.

I can understand your disappointment. Sounds like you have had a more involved parenting approach than most of us can manage with our ex BPD partners.

Still, you mention your access goes through your xw. What sort of parent plan do you have? I am concerned that if you have been doing things informally without documentation, you may be kept from your access. For a pwBPD, feelings=facts. If your xw's feelings about you are changing with new BF, you are going to experience her new world view.

What is your current access, and what does your plan state about participation in school or extra-curricular activities?
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Portent
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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 03:48:05 PM »

Here is the thing, you don't know what she is saying to him about you. My expwBPDw did an okay job to paint her ex black to me. She wasn't over the top about it but her lies did an okay job making sure we would never be friends. When she disregulated and her ex and I started working together to get her into therapy she learned her lesson. My replacement is told I beat her and I'm the worst person on the face of the earth. She has moved the man in to her house, in violation of our co-parenting agreement, and refuses to give me his contact information because she absolutely positively doesn't want us talking at all.
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half-life
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 02:08:05 PM »

I known about parallel parenting. It is better than outright fighting but a step down from what we have been doing. My son do not respect my authority. When I enforce game time limit at my place, it engenders his negative view on me. I can see how this could be played against me.

I've about 25% of child time. So the rest of the time when I have to contact the kids I have to go through her. She used to be supportive but now I feel uncomfortable with her frosty attitude. Also we had a traditional division of labor. I work and she do most of the child care. So she is far more involved with schooling than I do.

I have also learn to grow and change my way. I am a empathic and collaborative person. When we do things I always try to find consensus and something that we both like. Not that this has ever worked. She never like the choice nor appreciate my effort.

For example I am working on divorce settlement. I tried to accommodate her and take care of her. Say, does she prefer more cash or more real estate? She never gave me any indication of her preference. All I know is that she is unhappy. Now I think screw it, I come up the proposal on my own. If you don't like it is your responsibility to counter it. I'm done trying to take care of you.



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HopefulDad
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 04:57:52 PM »

Hey half-life, I know it's frustrating.  Most of us have been there.  But I mean this in a nice way: You need to man up and accept some things, like:

- You have zero control over how she will act.  You cannot coerce her into co-parenting your way.  It's "Mom's house, mom's rules.  Dad's house, dad's rules".  The whole parallel parenting thing is an absolute truth.  Treat collaborative co-parenting as a nice surprise should the two of you ever get there, but do not make it a goal as it can only go fulfilled with her cooperation... .again, something you have zero control over.

- You have zero control over how she'll communicate.  Personally, I prefer text/email communication only as it provides a written record of what is agreed upon so she might be doing you an unintentional favor.  Yes, you can get ignored over time-sensitive stuff via text/email, but the same is true if they just let your phone calls go to voice mail.  If you really do need a reply, text her with a "Please reply to the previous text/email I sent ASAP" once.  Do not nag her.

- She's going to pull your strings because she knows you'll react.  She knows the whole denying you a seat with her purse would eat you up, even if you didn't outwardly show it.  Work on yourself to not let it get to you, dismissing such acts as those of a child in an adult body.  I've lost count of similar incidents against me.  I made the decision that either I learn to let it roll off my back or continue to simmer about it.  I decided I didn't want my ex living in my head rent-free.

In the meantime, continue to press through the courts for more custody time.  Be the model dad.  Give reason to the judge to give you more time.
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takingandsending
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 04:59:53 PM »

So, you are seeing your son about every other weekend? Is that what is in a documented parent plan? And what does the "rest of the time" consist of? I am worried for you here because it sounds like you have done all of this through mutual agreement, so now you are going to be subject to the agreement changing, as it is no longer mutual.

Totally understand about offering alternatives and getting no indication back. I think you are definitely best to offer your own proposal and let her be responsible for countering it. But are you running any of this through a lawyer?

Lastly, while parallel parenting is a step down from co parenting, it is a step up from no parenting or parenting with a hostile parent, which is where it sounds like you are heading if you don't start taking steps to prevent it. I wouldn't worry so much about how your sons feel about you because you provide structure or discipline. Eventually, they will get it. There's a person on these boards, david, that expressed that very thing - his sons thought he was bad because he made them do their homework. Eventually, they saw through their mom's attempts to alienate them from their dad and saw he was really helping them. If your parenting consistently reflects care, support and kindness, they will get that, even if it takes them a while - that's my belief.
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 06:15:13 PM »

Here is the thing, you don't know what she is saying to him about you.

Yes!  she is probably creating a situation involving you where he can "rescue" her.  I have to tell my husband all the time to say hello and be cordial to his ex's boyfriend... .just so he doesn't accidentally fall into the storyline she has created.  It's nuts!  but just be you... .do what you do and stand behind it.  Don't try to predict her next move, just do what you think is right. That is the only way you won't have regrets. Definately don't play into the tit for tat game.

we had an open house for my stepdaughter where mom was out of town but encouraged a friend of hers to "go in her place"... .  which was weird to me.  My husband got annoyed about it and I told him... .be you... .say hello, invite her over, include her in the sharing of projects.  We knew she was bringing this friend in to cause conflict and make us pull away and appear distant.  So we did the opposite, we embraced it.  Smiled, communicated and even thanked her for coming.  Kaboom!  just blew up that story line

Don't let their bs change who you are and how you do things... .stay true to yourself and stand proud of who you are.

Bunny
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half-life
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 06:25:22 PM »

Thank you for the perspective. I do need to step up and act independently.

Some more detail about our custody arrangement. I initiated the break up. Initially the split was made at her request. I agreed to it to lessen her pain. Later my older son has a melt down and revolted and refused to stay with me. For a while I have 0% due to him. So 25% time is an improvement for me. These days she seems to be sick and tired of having the kids cling to her much of the time. She is miserable and expecting me to take them 50% of time as I initially wanted. I said totally. We should work with the older son to get the plan back on track. So it the kid's issue not a judge issue.
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