Knowing what to do doesn't make it any easier

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey everyone - it's been a few days. I've been lurking and replying to a few posts but mostly I've been focused on self care. That starts with self awareness I think, and I've really started to uncover depression and self esteem as major issues I need to handle first and foremost.

I have been avoiding the big issues with uBPDw - finances and family of origin. It hasn't been easy at all. A LOT of deflection, redirection, hugs and snuggles whenever possible. Her anxiety is REALLY bad right now.

I have settled back a little after last week. I know I'm wrong and causing harm. And as I said in the title, I know what I have to do now. I have to. No other choice. But it doesn't make it easy at all. In fact, it's really hard. And the only people I have in my life to turn to are here. So I'm really grateful for that. My family of origin has been pretty distant, which is both surprising and not surprising.  They seemed really supportive a month or two ago, and I know they love me. But is also NOT surprising both because of the situation (they fee hurt, I would assume) and also, let's face it, I had issues from my childhood with them and it's part of why I'm here in the first place.

Anyway, not much to say right now except that it's going slow as I focus on me. Things will pick up soon and I'll keep posting.

Thanks again for listening.

DB

[DaddyBear77]

Hey everyone - it's been a few days. I've been lurking and replying to a few posts but mostly I've been focused on self care. That starts with self awareness I think, and I've really started to uncover depression and self esteem as major issues I need to handle first and foremost.

I have been avoiding the big issues with uBPDw - finances and family of origin. It hasn't been easy at all. A LOT of deflection, redirection, hugs and snuggles whenever possible. Her anxiety is REALLY bad right now.

I have settled back a little after last week. I know I'm wrong and causing harm. And as I said in the title, I know what I have to do now. I have to. No other choice. But it doesn't make it easy at all. In fact, it's really hard. And the only people I have in my life to turn to are here. So I'm really grateful for that. My family of origin has been pretty distant, which is both surprising and not surprising.  They seemed really supportive a month or two ago, and I know they love me. But is also NOT surprising both because of the situation (they fee hurt, I would assume) and also, let's face it, I had issues from my childhood with them and it's part of why I'm here in the first place.

Anyway, not much to say right now except that it's going slow as I focus on me. Things will pick up soon and I'll keep posting.

Thanks again for listening.

DB

[Grey Kitty]

  That's a mouthful, isn't it!

Please understand that there isn't anything wrong with you or abnormal about you that simply knowing what you 'need' to do isn't enough to make it easy or even enough to make it feel possible.

  Being honest with yourself (and with us) is a great step.

  Taking care of yourself first is another great step!

I have been avoiding the big issues with uBPDw - finances and family of origin.

I've kinda coached you NOT to lead in with them anyhow.

Boundary zero is not letting yourself get sucked into circular arguments, appeasing needy clingyness, and being kept awake at night.

Start there, and build your strength and practice doing that around smaller issues.

If you can't do that, the big issues will turn into one of those... .and you will lose to the verbal/emotional abuse/manipulation, and cave, or at least promise to buy something that you can't/won't to get out of it anyhow.

[DaddyBear77]

Being honest with yourself (and with us) is a great step.

1. I am still promising her the ring and NC with FoO
2. Part of me believes I can do those things and not face dire consequences. I believe I may be delusional.
3. I believe a better life for myself lies beyond this wall of lies
4. I have no idea what life will look like for uBPDw after the walls come down.
5. I have no idea what life will look like for D3 after the walls come down.

[BeagleGirl]

DB,
First of all, it's an honor to be part of your support team.  I hope you know that I'm proud of how far you've already come.

I totally agree with GK.  You have "an elephant to eat" and it has to happen one bite at a time.  

One suggestion I have that might help you keep from feeling like you are sliding further down the slippery slope of lies is to come up with a truthful statement you can make in place of the lies.

When asked something that you can't answer without triggering/"hurting" her:

Possible "Long version" - I know it's very hard for you to feel uncertain about xyz.  It's something that is on my mind as well, but I'm not ready to talk about it right now.  I'm asking you to trust me to deal with that question in due time.  For now, I'd like to focus on abc.

Yes, this could be viewed as a deflection, but it's also a statement of truth.  BPDw will not be particularly happy with it, but it will do no harm to her.  

Possible reactions and counter reactions -
Reaction: BPDw won't drop subject.  Keeps bring it up.
Counter Reaction:  :)B sounds like a broken record, but sticks to the truthful script.  At some point, DB may need to say "I will not discuss this subject now.  If you aren't willing to talk about something else, then I need to end this conversation" and be willing to leave the room/house as necessary.

Reaction:  BPDw latches onto the request to trust you and responds "I DON'T trust you" or "Why should I trust you?".
Counter Reaction:  "I'm sorry you feel that way.  I know that I have not been true to my word in the past.  One of the reasons I am not able to discuss this topic right now is that I want to be certain that I am able to be able handle it in a trustworthy manner.  Your ability to trust me is very important to me."

Reaction:  BPDw starts pulling out every topic you DON'T want to address in an attempt to give on SOMETHING.
Counter Reaction:  "It seems like there are a lot of unresolved issues that you want to hear from me on.  I understand that this is very frustrating for you.  I'm going to continue to ask you to trust me.  I'd like to write them down so that we both know the questions that are still hanging out there.  It might help me if I understand your prioritization of them so that I can focus on the ones that are most important to you first."  

DO NOT get locked into a due date on anything unless YOU are ready to tackle that topic within a given time frame.

I think that buying yourself time without perpetuating/adding to lies is a good goal for right now.  It's a BIG goal, but should also start building strength for tackling some of your other goals.

What do you think?

BG

[Lucky Jim]

Hey DB77,  Your forthrightness about points 1-5 is a step in the right direction, as GK notes.  Maybe you could look at your list as if it's not you, but a trusted advisor, who is reviewing the points.  What might that advisor say to you?  What would you like to see happen?  What are your gut feelings?  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, DB,  I'm going to respond to the points you raised in the same order:

1.  I am uncertain why you think giving your wife a material present -- a ring -- is the answer to your problems.  The sad reality is that her well of neediness will not be full for long no matter what you give her.  The concept of NC with your FOO, in my view, is self-defeating, because you need their support now more than over.  Plus, isolation leads to desperation.

2.  To think that you can continue on a downward spiral without facing negative consequences may be unrealistic.  Time to perceive the reality of your situation before you have a crash landing, which is what I did.  It's not fun, believe me.

3.  I concur.  Greater happiness awaits, but first you have to tear down the wall of lies, which is not serving you well.

4.  Suggest you focus on your life post-teardown, rather than that of your uBPDw.  She is an adult who is responsible for her own life.

5.  Children are resilient and doing what is right for you will ultimately be the right thing for D3, in my view.

Hang in there,
LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

1. I am still promising her the ring and NC with FoO
2. Part of me believes I can do those things and not face dire consequences. I believe I may be delusional.

Regarding #2, when you say "do these things", which do you mean?

Buying the ring and going NC with your FOO?

Lying to your wife about buying the ring and going NC with your FOO?

[DaddyBear77]

Regarding #2, when you say "do these things", which do you mean?

Buying the ring and going NC with your FOO?

Lying to your wife about buying the ring and going NC with your FOO?

The first one: I falsely believe I can buy the ring and go NC without dire consequences. At some point in the next few months, it is likely I'll have enough cash temporarily on hand - I get paid in "bursts" depending on sales for a given month. This is precisely the reason I've been able to make all my past stupid decisions. It's delusional thinking but I find it worth admitting here, so at least I can see my own delusional destructive thoughts written out in black and white.

[DaddyBear77]

Tomorrow is a payday.

I know that I'm going to give in the same way I always do - when the money hits I'm going to go right along with her demands.

I can't keep avoiding this. The problem only gets worse.

[BeagleGirl]

Daddybear,
Sometimes you do have to pick your battles, and I don't think that buying the ring is necessarily an absolute evil.  What I do think would be harmful is to buy the ring and give it to her with resentment in your heart. 

If you are going to buy the ring, I suggest waiting until you have made peace with the decision. 

If you didn't spend the money on the ring, what would you do with it?  What is the "opportunity cost" of buying the ring?  List these out and recognize that you value the (probably temporary) peace that giving your wife the ring "purchases" more than those things.  Grieve the loss of those things or figure out ways to still have them, though they will be deferred. 

What is the purpose of giving the ring to your wife?  What will that ring remind you of every time you see it on her finger?  Can you get to a place where you can see it as something that you would not have chosen to purchase on your own, but you DID CHOOSE to purchase out of a desire for what is best for yourself, your wife, and the future of your relationship?  Can you see it as the fulfillment of a promise that you made for reasons you are not proud of, but will be proud of fulfilling because you are now going to live a life of integrity?  Can it be a reminder that you don't want to make promises you can't or shouldn't keep because you are committed to being a man of your word regardless of the cost?  Or will it constantly be reminding you of an internal script that says "I'm too weak to stand up to my wife and am willing to sacrifice what is right for what is comfortable."

I'll tell you the story of two rings that my husband gave to me and why I do not wear either of them.

Ring 1 - purchased after I came home from a 3 day business trip to find a truck parked in our driveway.  We had an agreement that purchases over $x would not be made without consulting one another, and this doubly applied to vehicle purchases because of the history of conflict over unwise vehicle purchases.  Not only did BPDh break that agreement, he didn't have the balls to even text me to forewarn me that he had done it.  He just waited for me to find it in the driveway.  He had no clue why I was so upset.  My reaction inspired 2 days of ST on his part where I'm frantically trying to figure out how to repair our relationship and he is working up the courage to ask me for $ so he can get his own place because he doesn't feel like he will ever live up to my standards for a loving husband (that's what he said when he finally broke ST).  I convinced him that we could get through this and started my normal "fixing".  He decided that I "deserved" something of value since he got to keep his truck.  He took me to buy a ring.  Neither the truck nor the ring were planned purchases, so I found something inexpensive (ended up being about 10% of the cost of the used truck) that I liked.  I know the idea was that the ring would communicate that he DID care about me and wanted me to have nice things.  Instead it was a constant reminder of the incident that led to the purchase and, eventually, the lack of change in the way BPDh treated me and our relationship.  I wore it for a while, but less and less frequently, and eventually gave it to his mom.

Ring 2 - Purchased for me to symbolize our reconciliation after my affair.  It is, by far, the most expensive thing I own.  It's beautiful.  It was purchased with money I earned while BPDh's job was "homeschooling" our son (which consisted of very little schooling of our son and a lot of selfish and destructive behavior).  That idea didn't dawn on me until almost 2 years later.  I don't know if I would have started to feel that way if BPDh hadn't refused the offer to put our son in school and find a job or had actually started homeschooling him rather than continuing with the selfish and destructive behavior.  I'll never know.  Now I can't look at the ring without thinking about how little he had to sacrifice to put a pretty ring on my finger and get me to continue acting as wife and "marriage keeper" while he continued to act in his own best interests.  It now sits in a jewelry box in the house that I pay the mortgage for while he tries to figure out if he can afford to move out.  I don't know if I'll ever wear that ring again. 

Your wife may not attach as much meaning to the ring you buy as I did, but I suspect that you will.  I suspect that seeing it on your wife's hand will hold meaning.  My question to you is - What will that meaning be? 

Again, I want to encourage you to not look at purchasing the ring for your wife as an absolute evil.  I think it could be an act of love for yourself and your wife IF you are able to get to that point.  The main "evil" would be to buy the ring out of motives you are ashamed of.
           
BeagleGirl

[DaddyBear77]

BeagleGirl - great perspective and I really appreciate you sharing your stories.

The truth is, every 6 months to a year, I make another major irresponsible purchase. Each purchase has beautiful symbolism and/or important meaning for us, and I do believe she attaches that meaning to it as well. So in that regard I'm always willing to "go the extra mile" to make these things happen. But every time, I either take out net new credit, or I refuse to pay back any of the credit I've already taken out. This comes across, too, and I totally agree with you - it takes away some of the meaning when I have to struggle to make ends meet even harder, and she knows I'm feeling some level of resentment associated with the object.

I can say that I'd love to get the ring, and I believe fully in the symbolism. I know that I really, honestly don't see the ring itself as being evil. Quite the opposite! But the only way to get the ring right now is to refuse to pay the demands of creditors, utility companies, preschool, you name it. No one else gets the money we owe them in favor of this very important and symbolic ring.

That's part of the reason this is so complicated - if you ignore the financial tradeoffs and think only about the importance and symbolism of the ring itself, you really DO start to wonder, "hum, well, maybe it's not such a bad idea after all"

But as I and others have said repeatedly for 6 months now, SOMEONE has to keep the financial tradeoffs in mind. If I don't, I've got a long line of creditors who will try to remind me multiple times a day.

Two years ago we crossed the threshold of barely making ends meet to being in the hole by huge margins each month.

Just to give you another sense of how bad things are:
 - I've let my regular mail sit on a shelf for over 6 months without opening it. 90% of it is a credit card or other bill that I know I have no ability to pay, so I just avoid it.
 - A year ago, I turned off the ringers on all my home phones and every day, 3 or 4 creditors leave voicemails. 8-9 people call every day.
 - As for my cell phone, I've been brave enough a couple of times to pick up the phone and tell them they don't have permission to call. For the rest, I've gotten really good as using the "block call" and the "do not disturb" features. I just checked, and I have about 55 unread voicemails.


I'm writing these things out, again, so I can see them in black and white.

But I can tell you this - I really don't think it would be a good idea to buy that ring right now.

[formflier]

Is there a baby step that can be taken?

Open a separate account... .many banks let you "nickname" an account.

Name that account... ."The .ring (name) deserves"

Deposit a decent chunk in there.  

Then... ."I'm sure you would agree this is an important step.  It's important to me to get this right."

Then... .press on with things.

Next month... .put some more in it.

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

  I really don't think it would be a good idea to buy that ring right now.

Please stick with your judgment.  You are not saying no... .that is very different than "right now".

Also understand this is bigger than the ring.  You get to decide for you.  She gets to decide for her.

FF

[DaddyBear77]

So the past 36 hours have been good in that I was able to catch up on most outstanding bills, while ignoring the credit card debt, and now I have a week or so breathing room.

On Monday I'm getting some additional cash and right now, the expectation is that I'm going to put most of it aside toward the ring. I reluctantly agreed but this is more of the same bad behavior on my part. Putting this money anywhere but toward the mortgage and a few remaining bills will leave me scrambling and probably failing to make the July 1st payment.

I keep wishing uBPDw would get this, but I know she can't.

So sometime this weekend, I have to somehow convey to her that the money she hoped would all go to the ring is really going to go to the mortgage. She'll tell me that I can't make unilateral decisions with our money, and that I'm going back on my promises, and that she was right to doubt me, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Some of it will be true - I did promise her something and now I'm taking it away. But I also promised her I'd protect our house and our family. She'll tell me I only want to destroy the family and destroy our marriage by not committing to getting her a new engagement ring. This will be false.

I don't know how I'll sort through the true bits and the false bits. I don't know how exactly I'll respond, although I know the end state is that the mortgage will be paid and the ring will not be funded yet. I am completely alone on this - no one will be in the room with me while this is going on. I will try and hold on to the years and years of therapeutic and supportive advice I've gotten and imagine that others are cheering me on, holding my hand, and that I won't really be alone, even if this whole scene ends in coldness and separation from uBPDw.

So here I go. Wish me luck.

[formflier]

Hey... sit the money aside for the ring in a separate account.  When it comes time to make the mortgage, see where the money is that you need and make the payment.

Or... .ask her.  Or "inform her".

You get to have it both ways... you are setting money aside, and then when reality comes, you both are in the same reality.  Any money left over rolls forward in the right account.

The critical thing is that you do not actually spend the money on a ring, until it's truly available.

This let's her see and experience reality.  Let her deal with it... .no rescuing

FF   

[GaGrl]

It sounds as if you have reached a point where new according u nth are not possibly blue, unless an existing institution allows you to open an ancillary account.  Most financial institutions will run a credit check before opening a new account. Check into this.

My stepdaughter is in your situation. She is considering opening an account separate from her SO due to his mismanagement of joint funds. His alcohol and weed expenditure each month far exceeds his contribution to the joint account.

My take on this is that you have commitments to multiple entities that, when fulfilled, allow you to hold your head high. Can you rank those commitments?

[BeagleGirl]

I will try and hold on to the years and years of therapeutic and supportive advice I've gotten and imagine that others are cheering me on, holding my hand, and that I won't really be alone, even if this whole scene ends in coldness and separation from uBPDw.

So here I go. Wish me luck.

We ARE here with you, holding your hand and wishing you luck. The "luck" component only comes in play with BPDw's response. Your part is all skill, no luck required.

One question-How do you feel about paying the mortgage first, then telling BPDw?  It may seem underhanded, but I look at it as protection from the (remote) possibility that you will return to the old pattern of giving in. You are choosing to do two right things, pay the mortgage and be honest with BPDw about the ring not being prioritized over mortgage and debt payments. The order in which you do them seems a bit less important than doing them both.

A comment on the "unilateral decisions" idea-What you are doing may feel "unilateral" to BPDw, but I believe you said she has agreed with your financial priorization when stated in general terms. It's only when there is a specific "low priority" item in question that she rescinds that agreement. She may never understand that, and I don't suggest trying to explain (JADE) it to her, but hold on to that knowledge for your own sanity. I'm also thinking that "unilateral" decisions for the common good are better than multilateral decisions that benefit one at the expense of others. If you were making a decision to spend the money on a new watch for yourself rather than a ring for her THAT would be more inline with my definition of a unilateral decision.

Wishing you strength and clarity.
BG

*Edited to say that I am TOTALLY picturing Spock's unilateral decision to sacrifice himself to save the crew of the Enterprise in Star Trek II. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
Live long and prosper.
BG

[DaddyBear77]

I am TOTALLY picturing Spock's unilateral decision to sacrifice himself to save the crew of the Enterprise in Star Trek II. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
Live long and prosper.

Wow you knew exactly what to say! Not to discount the hundreds of other incredibly helpful posts or anything, but a Star Trek quote was all I needed

Seriously, though, I've thought about just paying it and I may still do that. I haven't figured out exactly what I'm going to say and do but I know that the consequences are foreclosure. I gotta stop ignoring the serious stuff and just look this BPD / NPD in the face and say "NO!"

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmm... .boundary enforcement... .

"I love you too much to lose the house we live in to foreclosure, so I paid the mortgage, and there isn't money left for the ring this month."

If she doesn't get it, perhaps add: "Would you rather have a new ring while you, I, and D3 live out of our car(s)?"

And then refuse to participate in  any more discussion about the topic.

[DaddyBear77]

This morning I woke up and simply said "I can't give you any money toward the ring today. I need that money to pay for our mortgage."

She asked me what changed, because she thought I told her it would be ok. I said, "I am not going to put our house in jeopardy, and I'm going to make sure there's enough money for all the bills."

She said, "You just don't ever want to get me that ring! You're always going to come up with some excuse to NOT get me the ring because you just don't want me to have it."

I repeated: "I am not going to give you money today toward it. I didn't say I wasn't going to get it. I am simply saying I have other priorities."

She continued "... .they're always PLAUSIBLE excuses, you make sure of that. But if you wanted to get me the ring, you just would."

She started screaming, and of course this woke up D3. She ran into the bathroom, I went into D3's room. I picked her up. I held her. She held me back. We started our morning routine and a few minutes later while D3 and I were in the bathroom, wife comes in and says "leave us alone." D3 screams "NO! DADDY DON'T GO!" So I say to wife "I can't leave right now. We're in the middle of things. Can you come back in a few minutes?" Wife reaches down and grabs D3. D3 turns into a noodle, does NOT want to be picked up. Wife struggles some more. Eventually gets D3 in her arms and wife looks at me and says "leave now!" while D3 is holding out her arms saying ":)ON'T GO!" I see the flailing and struggling as a real risk to safety - it's a bathroom. There is hard time, counter tops, toilets, enclosed space. So, I leave. Wife slams door. Both D3 and wife cry for 3 or 4 minutes. Eventually things calm down.

This is the kind of drama I've been trying to avoid for almost 4 years now. But this time, I didn't let it stop me from saving the house. The mortgage is being paid.

But HOLY SH!# what a morning.

[GaGrl]

Aaaannnnddddd... .this is an extinction burst.

[flourdust]

You did great.

You told her the truth.

She had a brief tantrum.

You did not give in to the tantrum.

The tantrum ended.

Your mortgage gets paid.

[DaddyBear77]

Thanks Gagrl and flourdust

The situation isn't over yet. The tantrum was only just the beginning.

What will happen now is that she'll come after me with a flurry of emotional pleas followed by anger and rage then back to tearful emotions. She'll tell me I don't really love her, and other things carefully crafted to push through any boundary I might have. It's not simple, obvious stuff, like, "You won't by the ring so therefore you hate me." It's much more complex, nuanced, subconsciously crafted messaging designed specifically to get me to break me down.

This will go on for hours or days. The usual path is that I'll stick around, expose myself to the messaging, and eventually it'll wear me down.

This time, I'm desperate to try ANYTHING else. Something new. Novel. Different. But most importantly, effective at getting the bills paid and ME out of the depths of depression and anxiety.

[flourdust]

Different strategies, same tantrum. D3 probably has a lot of ways to try to wear you down to get ice cream. Do you always give in? You can be the grown-up here. She won't like it, and she'll be manipulative and hurtful. But you have to do the grown-up thing. No dessert (ring) before dinner (mortgage).

[formflier]

First of all... .good job!  You have turned the corner and are going down a different road.  She will try to turn you around.  She will try different "tactics"... .don't fall for them... .keep your "strategy" big picture... stay on the same road.

Stay away from "explaining" your decision.  If there is an account where you can show "progress"... that will help. 

Turn the tables... .let her explain it to you... .with facts and figures. 

"Babe... .you are important to me, I was able to set aside xx that you can see in our account.  I'm interested in your thoughts on where can can find more "in the budget".

Keep coming back to that phrase... "in the budget".  Ask her to show you... .not "tell" you...

Remember STOP

Sorry you feel that way.

That's your opinion

Ohh

Perhaps you are right.

I don't like the last one... .but it's a way to respond to silliness.


Last:  The child thing concerns me.  Do you have a recorder app on your phone?  Is your phone private?

Adults "grabbing" or "taking" a child like that is no good. 

What are your thoughts on what to do next time?  There will be a next time.

Good job changing direction.   

FF

[GaGrl]

Could your boundary be around not listening or discussing anything related to spending "outside the budget"?   The thing is, you and only you will know when she is weaseling her way into that discussion, so you and only you would have to walk away as soon as she goes there.

[flourdust]

"Babe... .you are important to me, I was able to set aside xx that you can see in our account.  I'm interested in your thoughts on where can can find more "in the budget"

My understanding is that their family finances are in such dire straits that there is no money to layaway for luxuries. It's questionable if they can be saved from bankruptcy.

[DaddyBear77]

My understanding is that their family finances are in such dire straits that there is no money to layaway for luxuries. It's questionable if they can be saved from bankruptcy.

You are correct flourdust. As I type this, I am still not sure we'll be able to afford our mortgage.

This current cycle has been repeated many many times, with most cycles lasting about 12 to 18 months. There's a demand - something that cannot be lived without. Then, I resist - too much debt, other priorities. She applies pressure - you are being unfair, she says, I've waited years and years for you to show me how much I mean to you. If you really wanted to do this, you would make it happen. She cries, starts to ignore D3, ignores herself, doesn't eat, depressed, it gets worse and worse. Eventually, I give in - you're right, I CAN make this happen. In the past, this has always meant more debt. Another loan, borrow from my parents, borrow from her mother. Now, theres no way to get loans, and the loans we DO have aren't being paid. My salary has dropped. She hasn't worked in almost 5 years. All the savings and 401k that has kept us afloat since she quit and helped us through bad years has all been spent.

Here's the thing - I listened to her tonight, again, explain why the original engagement ring I got her is something she can't stand to look at any more. She says she compromised when she asked for that 16 years ago. I feel for her. I can see that this is really genuinely hard. I'm NOT opposed to buying a new one. I think it would be a great thing. But ONLY under better more affordable circumstances. Doing it now taints the new one as much as the old.

Saving up is certainly the way to go. But right now there's SO MUCH to be paid back and replenished in terms of retirement and savings for college etc. I can't see my way clear to build a ring account with any significant cash until our present and futures are secure.

Does that make sense? Am I missing something?

[byfaith]

I'm desperate to try ANYTHING else. Something new. Novel. Different. But most importantly, effective at getting the bills paid and ME out of the depths of depression and anxiety.

Hi DB,
I feel for you in your situation first of all. My T told me that I needed to save myself. I am assuming that this is eating at your physical and mental wellbeing. We have to look out for ourselves.
I hope you can set your boundaries concerning the ring. I had this picture in my mind. There is my uBPDw and there is this endless hole inside of her and I stand there and toss everything I can think of into the hole, it never fills up. It never will.

I wish I had more advice to offer. You are right it is not easy. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to an abusive person. It has taken every fiber of my being or at least it seems like it. Hang in there. 

BF

 

[Notwendy]

IMHO, material things don't fill that hole, for someone with BPD or anyone else.

Material things do matter. We need homes, food, clothing, cars- and other things for our daily lives. I just spent a fair amount of money getting new sheets, mattress, for one of the beds in the home. Now, we have a nice comfy bed and sleeping on it is wonderful- but it doesn't meet emotional needs in the long run. I like the ring I reset my engagement diamond in- after many years, and it is pretty- but it doesn't make the relationship more or less emotionally gratifying. There is nothing wrong with enjoying material things- if you can afford them.


We live in an area with people of mixed incomes. There are large lovely homes in places, modest apartments in others. The local high school might have BMW's and small economy cars in the parking lots. I like the outdoors so on a weekend, I like the park. Often I have observed many of the more modest income families bringing a picnic lunch and hanging out all day at the park together. The local hot spot high end restaurants are also full on weekends. Is one better than the other? Is one family happier than the other? I could not tell.

It is said " who is happy- he who is content with his lot". If I were honest, I would say I am happier with a new mattress than an uncomfortable one- so I am glad we have the means to get a new one. But emotionally happy? That is different.

Something to consider- is the need of your wife to have that ring that drives you or your need to give it to her? Does this fulfill either of your emotional needs? One way to determine this is- you have done this kind of thing before- how did that work for you? It may have been a drop in the bucket, but it didn't fulfill her need.

A person who is happy eating home made sandwiches in the park will be just as happy at the best restaurant in town. A person who is unhappy probably won't be happy with either.