Brainstorming about beagles

[BeagleGirl]

Quick summary of the situation:
I moved out of the family home 4.5 months ago, into an apartment too small to accommodate keeping my two sons, much less our 3 beagles.  Now I'm ready for more permanent separation arrangements so I can spend more quality time with my sons.  I asked BPDh a couple months ago if he was willing to nest (no) or find a place for himself where he could have 50% physical custody of the boys (with dogs moving back and forth with the boys) vs. stay in the family home and have me find more suitable long term housing for myself.  He chose the option of finding a place for himself.  He chose to look for housing.  He found a place, but this week informed me that he can't have the dogs there.

My two issues with this are:
1)  This means that the boys (especially S14) won't have the comfort of our family pets living with him 50% of the time.
2)  I travel for work with 6-10 overnights/month.  I'm arranging my schedule so that I do all my travel during two weeks out of the month so that I can have S14 for two consecutive weeks/month.  That wasn't an issue if the dogs were going to BPDh's with S14, but now means I need to make arrangements for their care while I'm gone.   They are beagles and have a tendency to break out of the yard and go in search of their humans if left alone for extended periods of time (more than one overnight). 

So here are the areas that I would love some sanity check/advice on.

BPDh is offering to have S14 come over multiple times a day when I am gone to give meds and feed/water the dogs.  I don't want this responsibility thrown on S14 (he'd have to get up ~45 minutes earlier to have BPDh drive him to and from house each morning and work his evening schedule around taking care of the dogs) and it still doesn't solve the problem of the dogs being left unsupervised night after night.  I also don't like the idea of the additional contact with BPDh that would be required to coordinate this care.  Does this sound sane/reasonable?

The latest exchange was:
BeagleGirl:  "Are you still planning to rent the house from {church member}?
BPDh: "Yes, but if you have another idea, I'm open to it." 
BeagleGirl: "This is your decision.  I'm not responsible for coming up with other options for you." 
BPDh:  "Will you tell me what your plans are for the dogs?"
BeagleGirl:  "They will be taken care of.  The details are not settled yet, bur are my responsibility."Could I have handled this conversation better/differently?

I am currently considering two options.  The "easiest" but more expensive option is to find a place to board the dogs when I travel.  This would restrict S14's access to the dogs to the times when I am home, as it's not really practical for him to visit the dogs at a kennel.  The other option is to find someone who can live in our home and care for the dogs when I'm away.  Our house has a basement that could be converted into an apartment fairly easily and I have thought of renting it out to a student, with care of the dogs when I'm away being part of the rental agreement.  While this would be a less costly option and might allow S14 to visit the dogs from time to time, finding a trustworthy renter is a whole other ball of wax to deal with, and I don't think it's wise to take that on right now.

A third option, which I don't think falls within my boundaries, is to ask BPDh to find a place to live that would accommodate him keeping the dogs when he has S14.  The reason I feel like this is outside my boundaries is that I am trying not to step in and "fix" things for him.  I'm trying to give him the opportunity to make decisions on his own and live with the consequences.  If he were to come to me and say "I found a place that allows the dogs.  It's $x/month more than the place I originally selected.  Would you be agreeable to paying me $x to care for the dogs so that I could apply that money to renting this other place?" I would consider that progress and would most likely agree.  I think he feels like I'm being uncooperative, but I feel like I'm just trying to hold firm on the boundary of not solving problems for him.  Thoughts?  Any other creative ideas on what to do with the dogs when I travel?

Thanks,
BeagleGirl

[formflier]

OK... .can we be even more big picture?

Can the kids and dogs stay in the house... .and the adults do the moving around?

That way the adult places to stay only need to be like your apartment now.

If this were divorce... .if this were no further therapy... .I might feel differently.  But perhaps this is a good next step that stabilizes what you both seem to find important, kids and dogs.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

FF,
You always have great questions that make me search my heart.  Thank you.

So the "kids stay, parent's rotate" idea is called "nesting".  I proposed it to BPDh a while back.  He was not okay with maintaining three residences (family home and residence for each of us) and I was not okay with the constant presence he would have in my life if we had a shared second residence that we traded time in.  The exposure would be doubled because he has tools for his business that he wants constant access to and they would need to be stored at one place or the other, so he would be coming to the family residence or the shared residence regularly, depending on where he stored the tools.

Now that I'm thinking about it again, I am realizing that there are two reasons I am opposed to the idea and both hinge on my stubbornness.  I will take some time to pray and consider again, as well as discuss it with T on Monday.  Basically it boils down to these two things being more important to me than my kids, and I have to say that I don't like that idea.

1)  I value my privacy and ability to not have BPDh able to focus on where I am and what I'm doing.  This is something that I should be able to either set and maintain boundaries around or let go of in the interest of doing what is best for our kids.

2)  I value the opportunity for BPDh to demonstrate his ability to make choices that are in the best interest of our kids and our marriage without constant "help" from me. 

I think this comes into play in two ways.  First, I want to see the ability to formulate a plan, understand the objections, and come up with compromises or alternative plans.  That's what it would take to establish a nesting plan.  I know not everyone is gifted in this area, but I can testify that BPDh is excellent with this when it's something he wants.  If he's not able/willing to do that work up front and come up with a nesting plan, I have serious doubts that he will respect any plan I come up with when it goes against his desires.  I've got numerous examples of plans I've come up with, asked for his input/objects, worked to come to an agreement on and then watched him act as if the agreement never existed.

Having separate homes means that I'm not faced with the constant covert attempts to get me to take care of him and take over his responsibilities.  It's easier for me to allow the natural consequences to occur and not be constantly on alert for evidence that "nothing's changed" if I don't have to constantly inhabit the same spaces. 

That said, I'm basically saying that it's more important to me to have BPDh do things that I see as "taking responsibility" than my children's comfort.  I don't like that.  But I also don't like the idea of going back to the role of "mother" to him, and I feel like that's what I would be doing if I take charge and tell him "don't worry about getting a place that is suitable.  I'll continue maintaining a life where you don't have to make responsible decisions.  I'll continue facing the consequences of the messes you create."

Small example - He leaves two rotting apples on the kitchen counter for over two weeks.  He bought the apples.  He didn't use the apples.  He obviously saw the rotting occuring (he kept the counter otherwise tidy with the apples clearly visible).  He waited two weeks before throwing them away.  I could swear that he was testing my resolve to not throw away the rotting apples.  My resolve was maintained because I didn't have to look at the apples every day. 

I obviously need to keep pondering this one.

[GaGrl]

I can see how nesting might work for a family at a certain time and in a certain place.

I could not deal with the continued refreshment, especially if there were shared living quarters.

Methinks you need a different solution.

[DaddyBear77]

BeagleGirl,

My general thought on this is, rather than call upon S14 to do the checks on the dogs, and as a slightly less expensive option (maybe?) than a kennel, could you find a service / trusted 3rd party to check on the beagles while you're away?

S14 would have better access, and could take on duties that fit his schedule. There would be a trusted, contracted resourse to provide reliable care should S14 do what S14s do (forget, get busy, etc).

Don't know if that's an option where you are, but my general take is that if you're going be the "owner" of the beagles then even if you need to take them to a kennel, that's probably the better thing to do than to rely on BPDh (who seems to care but might not be reliable) or S14 (who loves them I'm sure, but is a teenager with his own life).

[formflier]

Do you need your own residence?  You travel anyway.  My guess is that you have lots of points and it seems like a good job with decent income... .so... pamper yourself instead of uBPDh.

For the few nights a month you are in town and need a place... .get a nice hotel... .get room service... go to the spa... .organize your meetings so you can sleep in.

Best of all... .let hotel staff clean it all up when you leave.

uBPDh can get a place for just him and since it is him and no kids... .there is no reason for your involvement.  He can have all the rotten fruit he wants...

If the dogs are at family home... .teen should do it.  If they are not there, I think it would be a special teen that could manage all that.  I wouldn't try it.

You can have a place in the home for privacy as can your hubby.

Let him get a storage for tools.  I have two trailers that I keep parked in a storage lot.  For some jobs I hook up and tow... .for other jobs I just grab some tools.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

I've had a night to "sleep on it", and I think I can see my way to a nesting arrangement. 

Now my hang up is whether/when I bring it up to BPDh.  I really want him to make an attempt to offer up solutions rather than wait for me to do so.  To me, this is an opportunity to demonstrate the change that I, our therapist, and our pastor have been asking of him.  Here's the challenge - how far do I go towards inviting that discussion?  I can see how he may feel like I "shut him down", where I feel like I am refusing the responsibility for solving his problems but leaving the door open for discussion.  For example, the part I left out from yesterday's exchange about the dogs was:

BeagleGirl:  "Are you still planning to rent the house from {church member}?
BPDh tries calling.  BeagleGirl doesn't want a rushed conversation and rejects call.
BPDh:  "Can we talk about it?"
BeagleGirl:  "If this is not a yes or no answer the we need to set a time and place to discuss."
BPDh: "Yes, but if you have another idea, I'm open to it."
BeagleGirl: "This is your decision.  I'm not responsible for coming up with other options for you." 

My perspective:  I offered a conversation about the situation.  He didn't take the opportunity to set up a time and place to have the conversation and made it clear that he was looking to me to "drive" the conversation.  I handed the responsibility for coming up with options back to him.  He didn't request further discussion.

BPDh perspective (assumed):  I asked a question he thought needed some discussion.  He tried to call but I rejected his call.  When he expresses willingness to consider other options I coldly tell him it's up to him to figure his stuff out.  I am not willing to dialogue about anything or even tell him what my plans are.  He gives up.  I have all the power and he's the victim.

Do I invite a discussion again?  Do I "lead" him to the nesting option?  That feels like a dance on top of my boundary line of not solving his problems for him. 

Do I give him the month we have before S14 and S18 would be scheduled to go live in his house to broach the subject and come to this option?  I don't like this, because we need to let the boys know about the new living arrangements soon (he's supposed to take possession of the rental house as early as July 1st and I will be moving out of my apartment on June 30th).  But I feel like this would give him time to take a positive step.  Even if he doesn't request a discussion/take me up on the offer of a discussion, we do have another mediation appointment next week where he could potentially bring it up. 

What I suspect will happen instead, whether I give him time or not, is that I will propose the nesting arrangement with all the details thought out.  I will lose a little more respect for him and a little more hope that things will every change (not that I have much of either left).  He will feel like I am making a step toward the marriage (fixing things for him, agreeing to live in the same house, even if it's not at the same time) and the boundary pushing will ramp up.  But I will have done what is right for my boys.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

BeagleGirl,

Relationship change takes time.  You know the husband you want and you know the husband you have.

Today... for this situation, realize you are dealing with the husband that you have... .today.        

This discussion is about your family and you kids, don't make it about something else... .like changing relationship dynamics.  Keep those conversations separate.

It would appear that you have been the defacto leader in this marriage, likely for the entire marriage.  Correct?

Leadership takes time to develop, it will take your hubby a while.  In the military, we are always developing our subordinates.  We give them room, time and the opportunity to fail... .we mentor them through that failure and a more seasoned leader emerges.

We also have the judgment/wisdom to realize when a situation or decision is not appropriate for a subordinate.   We still take the time to teach/mentor those subordinates, but it is clear who is in the lead.

BeagleGirl,

The stability of your family, to include those Beagles, is at stake.  This is not the time to step away from leadership.  It's obvious your hubby is not ready, this is not a place to allow him room to fail.

Reach out to him... .invite him for coffee... .Be up front that you have other ideas you wish to share and listen to his thoughts on those ideas.

We can work on the rest of the conversation prep later.

FF

[formflier]

BPDh perspective (assumed):  I asked a question he thought needed some discussion.  He tried to call but I rejected his call.  When he expresses willingness to consider other options I coldly tell him it's up to him to figure his stuff out.  I am not willing to dialogue about anything or even tell him what my plans are.  He gives up.  I have all the power and he's the victim.
 

This was handled poorly on your part.  Not horribly... .but... .  It's completely understandable why you handled it this way.

"Hey... .I wasn't able to give enough time to our conversation about housing options yesterday.  Please accept my apologies for being short with you.  Can we meet for coffee, I've got some ideas to share."

FF

[Skip]

In this split, who's dogs are these? Yours? His? Kids? Not clear?

[BeagleGirl]

Pre-separation the dogs were:

Financially: Mine.  I pay for everything related to them.

Physical care:  shared between all family members.  I tend to do the majority of the brushing/cleaning up after and walking.  I give meds when home.  Everyone checks (though boys need prompting) and refills food/water as needed.  One dog sleeps with S14, one with me, the other on the landing where she can monitor all rooms.

Emotionally/"pack order":  Mine.  I'm the "pack leader".

Post-separation the primary change has been that more of the physical/emotional ownership has shifted to S14.  This is desirable but temporary in my mind.  In 4 years S14 will be headed to college and the dogs would then be "mine".  I don't see BPDh fighting for them, though I don't doubt that he would miss them.

[Skip]

Is it accurate to say that they are your dogs and you are the responsible owner... .and other family members enjoy and love them.

[Grey Kitty]

From what you say of BPDh, assuming he does indeed move out of the jointly owned house, he will leave the beagles as your responsibility to deal with. Believe it and take responsibility.

My suggestion would be to arrange a kennel or professional dog-sitter for your first trip or two, as that is an easy thing to get out of... .if you get a live-in housemate/dog-sitter, that arrangement is more permanent/has more consequences. So allow yourself a bit of time to come to a "new normal" living in the house with BPDh living away before you commit.

You can figure out how S14 and S18 are dealing with it after you try it.