I Am Feeling Better - Now It's Time To Take Action

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm feeling better today, and I've got more of a grip than I did when I started my last thread. So thank you to everyone who responded to that.

I've decided I'm not going to let things go on like they have been anymore. We had another blow up at 4am this morning and then again a couple hours ago. This morning she insisted that I was living a secret life, and then this afternoon the most hurtful part was when she told me I was physically disgusting. She went through nearly every body part and told me how gross it was, then she told me how horrible my clothing is. Then it was my office. Then it was how I kept the landscaping that was horrible.

And then I realized, wow, this person is out of control. I can't let this go on.

I haven't figured out which tools are most important to refocus on first, or which boundaries are the most important. But I've given myself until the end of the weekend to pick some and start making it happen. I can't survive much longer like this.

This will be huge. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm also scared sh!#less. But it's worth it to be done with this once and for all.

[DaddyBear77]

I'm feeling better today, and I've got more of a grip than I did when I started my last thread. So thank you to everyone who responded to that.

I've decided I'm not going to let things go on like they have been anymore. We had another blow up at 4am this morning and then again a couple hours ago. This morning she insisted that I was living a secret life, and then this afternoon the most hurtful part was when she told me I was physically disgusting. She went through nearly every body part and told me how gross it was, then she told me how horrible my clothing is. Then it was my office. Then it was how I kept the landscaping that was horrible.

And then I realized, wow, this person is out of control. I can't let this go on.

I haven't figured out which tools are most important to refocus on first, or which boundaries are the most important. But I've given myself until the end of the weekend to pick some and start making it happen. I can't survive much longer like this.

This will be huge. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm also scared sh!#less. But it's worth it to be done with this once and for all.

[formflier]

I am glad you are feeling better.  Remember... whatever you decide... .stay consistent.

Don't turn back when she freaks.

How long did you listen to her "horribleize" you?

[DaddyBear77]

I'm still listening to her as we speak.

We took D4 to the amusement park. She hasn't let up in the past hour and a half.

So, obviously, this is something that needs to be addressed.

[teapay]

Daddy,

I hope you are fully willing to end this r/s and let the chips fall where they may.  I'm not saying end it.  I'm saying being fully okay with that happening, because that will empower you establish and enforce boundaries and do alot of other things that would protect you and your kid.  In the end, we tolerate what we tolerate.  Those boundaries may improve the rs or may blow it up, but either way your life will improve in the long run and so will your kid.  Hope your at that point.  If you do decide on taking more action make sure you are documentin everthing and use whatever leverage you have.

[formflier]

Help me understand how you decide to continue listening... .

Ask her to pause the conversation till later so you can focus on D4.  See what happens

FF

[DaddyBear77]

Help me understand how you decide to continue listening... .

Ask her to pause the conversation till later so you can focus on D4.  See what happens

On the way home tonight from the amusement park - DB and DBwife in front seat, D4 in the back seat:

DBwife: "I am so insulted that you think I'm stupid. You don't even realize that I'm way smarter than you'll ever be"
DB waits a minute
DBwife: "And now I'm even MORE pissed that you would ignore me"
DB: "I'm not comfortable discussing this until D4 is home and in bed"
DBwife, clearly getting more agitated: "Oh, he!$ no! You will NOT ignore me!"
DB ignores the bait - a minute or two passes
DBwife, in a false calm voice: "I want you to sleep downstairs tonight"
D4, from back seat: "NO! I do NOT want daddy to sleep downstairs! I need him UPstairs to help me go to the potty!"
DB, actually calm: "I will discuss this further with you when D4 is in bed"
DBwife, outwardly angry now: "I am 110% serious - if you continue to ignore me and refuse to have this discussion by the time we get to the next intersection, I am leaving you"
D4, very upset: "NO! DO NOT LEAVE DADDY AT THE NEXT INTERSECTION! THAT IS NOT OK!"
DBwife, to D4: "This is a grownup conversation. Please try and be calm"
D4: "I will NOT be calm! Do not leave daddy!"
We're approaching intersection. I pull over. I walk to the other side of the car, open DBwife's door, and calmly, quietly, as privately as I can, briefly discuss the issue of me thinking she's stupid and her being smarter. Which is the most insane conversation ever. But 1 minute later, DBwife calms down, D4 calms down, and 20 minutes later were home.

THATS why I stay and take it.

[BeagleGirl]

DB,
I'm so glad you are feeling better.  Having watched your journey, I know what a huge step it is to say "enough" and decide to take action.  I also know that you are in a much better position to choose and consistently apply the tools most suitable to where you are right now.

As has been suggested, coming to a place where you are willing to end the relationship if certain things happen/continue makes a huge difference in your ability to effect change.  If you are always willing to "cave" if the relationship is in danger, pwBPD will start to use that as leverage to get you to back down.

One thing that has been important for me to understand about my separation is that my willingness to leave doesn't equate to my desire to leave.  One is based on choice and the other on feelings.  My therapist has done a really good job of helping me to recognize that the times when I feel desperate to end things is probably the worst time to actually end things, and the times when I feel desperate to stop feeling guilty and lonely is not the time to take steps to reconcile.  Removing the urgency and time table frees me to make better decisions.

Lots of strong, difficult emotions will come, but they will also eventually go.  The truth doesn't change.  If I give myself time to accept and work through the emotions rather than allowing them to drive my actions, I will be better off.  Your posts the past two days had shown that you are understanding that.  You have my prayers and best wishes.

[BeagleGirl]

DBwife: "I am so insulted that you think I'm stupid. You don't even realize that I'm way smarter than you'll ever be"
DB waits a minute
DBwife: "And now I'm even MORE pissed that you would ignore me"
DB: "I'm not comfortable discussing this until D4 is home and in bed"
DBwife, clearly getting more agitated: "Oh, he!$ no! You will NOT ignore me!"
DB ignores the bait - a minute or two passes
DBwife, in a false calm voice: "I want you to sleep downstairs tonight"
D4, from back seat: "NO! I do NOT want daddy to sleep downstairs! I need him UPstairs to help me go to the potty!"
DB, actually calm: "I will discuss this further with you when D4 is in bed"
DBwife, outwardly angry now: "I am 110% serious - if you continue to ignore me and refuse to have this discussion by the time we get to the next intersection, I am leaving you"
D4, very upset: "NO! DO NOT LEAVE DADDY AT THE NEXT INTERSECTION! THAT IS NOT OK!"
DBwife, to D4: "This is a grownup conversation. Please try and be calm"
D4: "I will NOT be calm! Do not leave daddy!"
We're approaching intersection. I pull over. I walk to the other side of the car, open DBwife's door, and calmly, quietly, as privately as I can, briefly discuss the issue of me thinking she's stupid and her being smarter. Which is the most insane conversation ever. But 1 minute later, DBwife calms down, D4 calms down, and 20 minutes later were home.

DB,
When you've had a moment to cool down and re-read the above exchange, I think it might help for you to highlight the boundary that you set and the point at which you allowed DBwife to get you to remove said boundary.  Then think about what tool she used to get you to do so.  How do you make your boundary resistant to that tool in the future?
BG

[DaddyBear77]

Thank you BeagleGirl. I am actually in a very calm place right now and I know exactly where I caved. I made a conscious decision to cave in tonight, actually. I also get exactly how this has reinforced DBwife's actions over the years.

I've had various bad habits over the years, but this one in particular took firm hold about 4 years ago this week. Fear of exposing D4 to our conflict has kept me engaged in ever-increasing harmful verbal assaults. We had a thread on this topic earlier, and I think it was GK that made the point at the time that leaving needs to take priority over staying for verbal abuse, in all circumstances where D4 is not in physical danger.

I think this is the boundary I need desperately. This has been said to me before. I'm listening. Thank you everyone.

PS: I had a very rare confirmation this morning that DBWife knows exactly what she's doing. We were arguing quietly but I wasn't responding the way she wanted me to. So she said "if you don't start responding the way I need you to, I will get loud." So she gets it. And now I know she gets it.

[Notwendy]

Although we are different families and I am not a child, I try to share my memories to give that perspective.

I recall being about 9 or 10, watching my parents argue like this, and my mother's rages. They were not always in front of me, but I could hear them. I can't even recall how many times I heard the ":)" word and it was mostly from my mother threatening to leave. One time she did take off for a couple of days. I don't recall my father doing that often, maybe a couple of times, but it was several times I heard our mother say this.

Then it involved us. We were told if we didn't do this or that, mom would leave.

This was really scary. Like your daughter, these kinds of discussions were terrifying.

You stated your wife was out of control- and from my perspective- saying these things in front of a 4 year old is not appropriate, and not good for her.  I agree with GK that stopping the conversation - by leaving the discussion if necessary is important. How do you do that in a car? I think I would pull over and refuse to drive till she stops- and if it escalates, well at least you are not on the road. It's hard to protect the child from that kind of a scene but at least it is out of danger of driving under this kind of stress.

As we got older, our response to these threats changed. They weren't so scary. At one point, I just wished they would just do it and stop the bickering.

On another thread- someone posted to be absolutely sure in your decision to leave if you choose to do that. He stated he was not telling you to leave, but if you did, to be sure. I get that because this kind of thing tends to cycle- the feeling to end the relationship - and then the "well it isn't so bad".  So, if you do choose to take that kind of action, I agree it is good to be certain.

Boundaries are meaningless unless you enforce them. So attempts to leave ( on either of your parts) without actions tend to just be meaningless too. For any boundary to have any meaning- it has to be acted on. In fact, actions can be better than words.

It is good you pulled over when this happened in the car. It's stressful to be driving like this.

[formflier]

DB,

Perhaps you could immediately that is honest... and authentic.

"Ouch!"... ."That hurts... !" 

"Can we pause this conversation until we are alone?"

It sounds like you have an authentic value (which I agree with)... .that you don't have these conversations around your child.  I think you can find strength to take action based on that value.

Can you pull into a McDonalds and take the child to a playland?  Basically... .you don't control your wife.  She may or may not make a public azz of herself.  You do control yourself... .

Protect your child... .not your wife.


Do you have any idea what got her going on this train of thought?

FF

[Notwendy]

I really like the idea of pulling off to a fast food place with a playland and not having this discussion in front of your child. If your wife yells and screams in a restaurant, that's on her. At least your daughter isn't sitting in the car listening to her threats and you are not at the wheel feeling stressed.

[BeagleGirl]

DB,
Car situations are probably the most difficult.  It will be a really long time before I ride anywhere with BPDh.  If I do, I will be very aware of where Uber has coverage. 

These situations are even more difficult for you because you are trying to protect D4, so options are more limited.  That said, here are a couple of ideas I had on holding this type of boundary.

"I will not discuss this in front of D4".  - I would be inclined to get D4 some ear muff type headphones and a video she likes for the car ride so that DBwife's words are less audible to her and just remain silent and unresponsive until you are within the "talking boundary space".  NO response, not even reassurance of D4 if she gets looped into the conversation.  I know that's really hard, especially when the topic/tactic changes, but eventually DBwife may get the message that nothing she does is going to get the boundary to change and start to respect it.  It would make for a hellish ride, but not that much more than you already faced.  That hellish ride would then be grounds for setting the boundary of "we don't drive places with D4 together" so that D4 is not subjected to DBwife's disregulation in an environment that can't be escaped from.  I think that situation would also be a good time to discretely start recording the tirade your wife is willing to subject you and your daughter to.

Alternatively, you can take the steps to remove yourself from the car and conversation.  This isn't always feasible, and will be inconvenient and expensive.  What would have happened if you had pulled over and, instead of talking DBwife down, handed her the keys, given D4 a kiss on the forehead and said "I'm going to get a different ride and will meet you at home."  Then you call a cab or Uber and meet them at home.

The idea is that DBwife will go to extreme measures to violate your boundaries and you may need to go to extreme measures to hold them firm.   Either she starts respecting the boundary or the boundary gets tighter and/or consequences get larger. 

What do you think?

[formflier]

Just so you know... .I've done the playland thing.

Looking back... .I waited way too long.  I was in dense traffic in a very busy city.  All kids where in the van with us... .we were coming back from a wonderful vacation. 

I hadn't yet found this site or read SWOE.

So... .I keep trying to talk her out of talking to me while I was driving.  It enraged her that I couldn't drive, talk and listen... .and know what she meant.

I snapped... .made a big speech to everyone about how unsafe it was... .and I went and sat in McDs.  Wife came in about 10 minutes later.  I didn't leave until I got a promise from her that she would hush.

Remember... "pre-tools FF"... .

It worked... .she blathered a bit about how unreasonable I was... .but by and large... .we finished the trip intact.

In my relationship headphones and ear muffs were enraging.  There is something about them "seeing" you defy them that adds fuel. 

My guess is that she wants D4 to "know" how bad daddy is.


FF

[Notwendy]

My father did all the driving and my mother is not an experienced driver. While I like the idea of  handing mom the keys and getting a ride, being in the car with upset mother is not the safest. Another option is to call a cab and put her in it, and drive you and D4 home.

Now, as adults, her children are in the position of driving our mother.when we visit and go somewhere. It is really nerve wracking when she goes off on the car. It seems the captive audience is an opportunity. She has screamed insults while we are driving. Fortunately she doesn't do this with the kids in the car. I have held a strict boundary on that but that is much easier to do as she is not the parent.

[flourdust]

I reached the point where I made the decision that I would not be in a car with my BPDw again. It was HER choice to fight, threaten, and verbally abuse me in the car, in front of our daughter, so it was MY boundary to not let that situation happen. Of course, this upset her and made travel more challenging. She blamed me, but SHE could have fixed the problem by stopping her poor behavior. She created the problem; I left it to her to fix it. Think about that.

[Radcliff]

Hello DB,

I read your thread from a couple of days ago, as well as this one.  So many of the things you've said hit spot on with what I've experienced.  You're the first person I've heard describe a spouse cataloging all of the parts of his body that are disgusting to her.  That happens to me!  Who would have thunk that crazy thing would happen to two people?

I also have experienced drama in front of a small child, drama in the car, and in particular work going to hell in a hand basket at the same time the relationship reaches a new level of hell.  I just about came unglued.  This may sound trivial, but do you have a regular exercise habit?  That can help me stay evened out when things are rough.

These two threads contain some really great advice.  Several people have spoken about not being afraid of the relationship ending.  I wholeheartedlly agree.  When I finally got to the point where I realized I couldn't control what she did and resigned myself to the fact that she might actually file for divorce, realizing that I could handle it if it came, it was a game changer for me and I was finally able to start having some success at setting boundaries.  Before that I caved every time.  I tell her that I want our relationship to work, but she is independent and free to do what she decides.  My wife also has a pattern of nuclear threats that are not followed through on, as a method for her to feel in control.  Once I realized how unlikely she was to follow through, it helped me

Even if your current plan is to work hard to keep things together, it might be good to start documenting any clearly inappropriate behavior (physical abuse of you, including sleep deprivation, interference with you while at work, any drama or triangulation around your child or anything that affects her, etc., as well as your involvement in child rearing (meal prep, reading to her, setting up play dates, doing to doctor's appointments, etc.).  Seeing things written down will help you keep grounded and keep from minimizing it, and seeing the care you are providing for your daughter could be hugely validating for you.  If worst came to worst and she filed, you will want this documentation when it comes time to figure out custody and you want to maximize parenting time.  Details, recorded regularly, over a long period of time, can be very credible.  I also found that reading what had happened later helped strengthen my resolve to set and keep boundaries.  Knowing I am prepared for the worst also helps me stay more calm and effective when the s*#t hits the fan.

[takingandsending]

If worst came to worst and she filed, you will want this documentation when it comes time to figure out custody and you want to maximize parenting time.  :)etails, recorded regularly, over a long period of time, can be very credible.  I also found that reading what had happened later helped strengthen my resolve to set and keep boundaries.  Knowing I am prepared for the worst also helps me stay more calm and effective when the s*#t hits the fan.

YES to this!   Right on the money. I have been questioned for every aspect of child care since my separation, and I soo wish I had this journal. I keep it now, though. Turns out, I am not a bad parent at all.

DBear - I have had those same drives with kids in backseat and uBPDxw raging in full blown dysregulation. I ended up doing what flourdust did - stopped driving anywhere with her and the kids together. I drove them and met her, or she drove them and I met them. I didn't announce this change. I just started doing it, because it is one of the least manageable no-win situations, and my wife knew it.

I also completely get why you are staying in the relationship out of rational, understandable concern for your daughter. That will change as she gets even just a little older. I stayed for the same reasons with my sons, but for me, at some point, even using boundaries regularly, even short circuiting the dysregulations in intensity and duration, my xw was still draining my resources to be there for my sons, to give to them without worrying about eggshells. In the end, the very people that kept me in the abuse were the cause for me leaving the abuse. So, when you start settling things down with clear, consistent boundaries (my first and strongest boundary was civil, respectful speech - sound familiar?), stay open to what is going on inside of you, where you are at from 1-10 on resources. It may change the way you feel about what will be best for your D4. And I get how hard it is to even think about that right now. When a health care professional once asked me what it would look like if I left, I broke down in tears ... .literally sobbing. I was carrying a ton of fear and weight for keeping my kids safe.

What you are going through is so hard, and I am truly sorry. But I know that things can and will get better. You and your D4 deserve a healthy, happy you. It is possible. Keep working on the boundaries ... .and you did a good job in the car. Eventually, rather than no comment, you may consider offering a validation. "You are definitely not stupid. I can see why you'd be upset if you believe that's how I feel." My xw hated my validations, but they really did disarm her from escalating.

[Grey Kitty]

Fear of exposing D4 to our conflict has kept me engaged in ever-increasing harmful verbal assaults.

No need to be afraid of that now.

IT IS TOO LATE.

Re-read what D4 said in the dialog. She's already fully triangulated into your fight with your wife. She's already sticking herself into the middle of the toxic conflict between the two of you. As far as I'm concerned, she's already full in the thick of things she needs to get therapy for.

So... .if what you are walking on eggshells to prevent has been happening for a while, is happening today, and is going to continue happening, if not getting worse in the future... .what do you have to be afraid of now?

Can we help you make a plan--can we help you figure out a way to deal with it better at the time it is happening?

Suggestion #1: Never get in a car with her, and NEVER, NEVER get in a car with her driving, and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER get in a car with her AND D4 and her driving. Doesn't matter how unreasonable you sound, or what you have to do to avoid it, just refuse to do these things ever again.

Being trapped like that with D4 involved is just too toxic and damaging to risk one more time.

[Harri]

Hi DBear.  What a horrid situation for you and your daughter.  I was torn between cheering and crying after reading Grey Kittys post... .he nailed it.  Your daughter is already involved and has been for a while I think.  If a child can verbalize things like she did, it would indicate that she has been seeing, hearing and feeling all of these things for a long time now.  Infants and small children can sense tension, anxiety, stress depression etc.  They sense it, feel it and will assume they are the cause and often do their best to resolve the issues for you causing themselves more stress and more anxiety.

I know your hands are full and you are in a tough position.  I do not want to make things harder for you but I also do not want you to make your decision to stay based on faulty thinking.  You can not shield and protect a child from the tension, stress, sadness, anxiety etc.  A parents mental and emotional state will affect the kid and it often happens from the very beginning... .not when they get older.  By the time they start showing signs in their behavior or talking about it like your daughter did, it is too late, they have been affected.

Never leave your child alone while your wife is dysregulating or raging.  Your presence is not causing it (no matter what she may say or how it may feel to you) so leaving will not solve the issue.

Keep working on things here DBear.  You are making progress on seeing through the fog and are doing so much better with things.  Keep at it.   

[Grey Kitty]

Oh yeah, DB, sorry if I jumped too hard on you here--I replied to the first part of this without really letting your last part register... .and wanted to say:

   Good job pulling over, stepping out, and opening her door. Really good work.

You were able to address her directly, taking D4 out of the conflict, and without (further) traumatizing D4.

I'm also really glad you were the driver, so you could pull over and stop, getting yourself out of the situation of being trapped in a fight in a car you couldn't leave.

[DaddyBear77]

GK, Harri, thank you both for pointing out the truth here. I wish I could say I didn't know that already about exposing D4, about it being too late.

I saw some stuff this past week that convinced me I'm never going to get through to my wife. There really isn't going to be a day when she suddenly sees things from a rational, well considered, logical point of view. She'll always see my parents as a threat. She'll always think I didn't spend enough or do enough. She'll never look at D4 and really feel the kind of motherly empathy I wished that D4 (and myself) could have had.

 I don't know why that hasn't sunk in over all these years. Even as I write it now I still hope and wish that maybe I'm wrong to say "always" or "never." But maybe the point is that the longer I wait for "someday" to come, the more damage I'll do to D4 and the more of life I'll miss.

[formflier]

Correct... .there won't be a day it happens.

It will be a slow process.  She didn't get this way overnight... .and she won't get better overnight.

There may be a limit to how much better she gets.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Regarding D4, it is too late to prevent exposure. That said, what she's being exposed to can (and likely will!) get worse, and more and prolonged exposure will be harder on her and take longer to recover from.

So you still have very good reason to act now!

And regarding your other comment, consider what you can and can't accomplish with your wife.

As you said, you won't convince her that "you are right" when it comes to things like money, your parents, raging, etc.

You absolutely CAN convince her that you are going to stand firm, and she's not going to win on some of these things.

What you don't know is whether she what she will do about this. Well, you can be certain it will start with an extinction burst, at least, but things will stabilize. She *might* come to accept that she wants to stay with you even though you are standing firm "against" her. Or she might choose to leave/divorce/etc. If you stand firm, she will have to make that choice.

And if you don't think you can stay with her and stand firm, I'd recommend you make your plans for divorce and fighting for custody. It *IS* really hard to do, especially with D4 held hostage so often. If you don't have it in you to stand firm, know yourself, admit it, and act accordingly. It may be the best you can do.

[DaddyBear77]

I'm feeling an incredible sense of guilt tonight. I've gone backwards and lost all the progress I was making. Ill post more about this later, but it's bad.

GK, to your points:

So you still have very good reason to act now!

Yes. Absolutely. I get this. The sooner I act the sooner I can help D4 recover.

If you don't have it in you to stand firm, know yourself, admit it, and act accordingly. It may be the best you can do.

I would hate myself if the answer was "I don't have it it me." What am I going to do? Abandon my daughter? F that. If I don't have it in me currently, I'll GET it in me, one way or another. Failure is not an option.

[Notwendy]

The back and forth you describe are part of the relationship dynamics.

It may not be clear what your part in this is, but I think trying to find this out may help you understand your part better.

Learning in this is also a back and forth process. The two of you have been engaged in a familiar pattern. It is possible for you to change your part in this, but also know that if you backslide- as you describe- it can be part of the learning process.

Guilt, going backwards- self shame- may be a reflection of some conflict you experienced in your FOO that you could be acting out in this relationship.

There really is no backwards. The process of change isn't necessarily linear. Before, you may have been in this pattern without being aware of it. You are aware of it now.

You mention abandoning your D. There are more ways to abandon her than to actually do that. One way is to abandon yourself. If you abandon you- you aren't really there for her, even if you are there physically. Yes, it is better to meet her basic physical needs- shelter, clothing, than to not be there. But if you abandon yourself- you are not really present for you or her.

One concern I have in your situation is that you feel you are not able to make an appt for therapy, get help for your own emotional needs. Self care is crucial. What steps can you take to do this? Even if it means making an appt she doesn't know about ( go during work hours). It really isn't anyone else's business if you need to consult someone for mental health.

[Radcliff]

Hi DB,

Our situations have many similarities, though you have become aware of BPD much earlier in your child's life, which is good.

W.r.t. going to therapy, I found a therapist near work who did DBT -- I found her on the Beharioraltech Web site, not because I wanted to do DBT but because I wanted someone who could handle what I was experiencing.  I am very glad I went to her. I did not tell my wife.

You've talked about the negatives with your wife.  Do you see positives in her as a parent?  If so, what kind of good things do you see?  My wife can be a terrific parent, which makes it very complicated to understand when she is not.  Can your wife have a positive role in D4's life, or not so much?  What percentage of the time would you say she is a good and effective parent?  When she is alone with D4, do you have an idea of how things go?

[DaddyBear77]

I really appreciate everyone's concern here.

One concern I have in your situation is that you feel you are not able to make an appt for therapy, get help for your own emotional needs. Self care is crucial.

I agree completely. Other than a few brief periods, I've seen a therapist weekly for the past 10 years or so. It's true that recently my wife has "banned" therapy, but she doesn't REALLY get the say so. As an immediate stop gap, I've engaged an online therapy company. I'm hopeful it will get me over this hump.

Hi DB,

Our situations have many similarities

I am very sorry to hear that Wentworth :/

You've talked about the negatives with your wife.  Do you see positives in her as a parent?

I am sorry I've only spoken about the negatives. In reality, she's a very functional parent, and there are a lot of things my wife does that make me happy she's D4's mom. For example, she can actually be WAY more patient than I am. She is an expert at boundaries and I can tell they are really helpful to D4. My wife is very functional and in fact many of the worst BP traits have faded. My biggest concern is the arguing / raging, which I'm worried will carry over to D4 as she gets more challenging (it's not currently). I'm also worried about a lot of the NPD-like traits and how they'll affect D4.

[Grey Kitty]

I would hate myself if the answer was "I don't have it it me." What am I going to do? Abandon my daughter? F that. If I don't have it in me currently, I'll GET it in me, one way or another. Failure is not an option.

Err... .I guess I wasn't as clear as I intended to be: What I was trying to say about "having it in yourself" was this:

If you don't have it in yourself to stand firm against your wife while living with her and married, then you may have to end your marriage to save yourself and D4. Even if you end up with split custody, perhaps less than you wanted.

Abandoning your daughter is the last thing I'd suggest.

[Notwendy]

Although you are concerned about the effect of the conflict, and your wife's behavior on D4, what may motivate you to take steps to take care of yourself is the effect of your behavior on D4.

Kids pick up a lot by what we do- they watch us, we are their role models, for better or not so good. I speak as to not blame my parents- they are humans like all of us with good traits and not so good ones. I didn't get all good or all bad examples from either of them.

However, I had two examples of how to relate to people: my mother and father. My mother was out of control- I witnessed the raging and screaming. Kids don't understand the whole picture. They have magical thinking and also black and white thinking- a part of their maturity levels. So, I saw my mother as bad, my father as good. I saw him as a victim of my mother and didn't understand his part in this. He became the role model for me in relationships.

This was a set up for accepting being treated poorly in relationships. I have had to work on my own co-dependency and self worth. I am not speaking about this with intention to blame. I think my parents did the best they could with a difficult situation and I can speak of many good things I learned from them as well( an appreciation for education and the arts to name a couple ) .One thing that motivated me to work on this, besides my own benefit was because- I didn't want to role model this for my own children. I wanted them to have healthy self esteem and happy relationships. It was as essential to parenting as keeping them fed, educated and other things I did for them.

For changes to happen, I had to face my own fears. I was not allowed to stand up for myself in my FOO. I had to accept the fact that if I made changes, my H may not like them. I had to not be more concerned about him than about me. I had to believe that what I was doing was benefiting all of the family. Being co-dependent with another person isn't good for them- it is appeasing them, controlling their feelings and keeping them from learning to manage them. It is being inauthentic to them. It causes us to feel resentful towards them. How is this a good thing for them?

It teaches our children that to be in a relationship, we need to ignore our own needs and allow people to treat us poorly. How is this good for them?

I try to give you a large perspective because while D4 is only 4, she will grow up. She will start dating. Now imagine she has a partner who is  speaking to her the way your wife speaks to you and her thinking "this is love". The way to help her know that this isn't the kind of relationship you think is OK for her is to take care of yourself now and get whatever support you need to take steps towards emotionally healthy ways to relate to yourself and your wife.

They say on an airplane- put your oxygen mask on first-