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Author Topic: I hit my BPD waif...more than once...  (Read 2082 times)
IsThisThingOn
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« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2017, 06:18:39 PM »

Skips recommendation included paying in advance for her to find an appropriate time to gather her belongings. I can see how paying for X amount of storage time can reinforce feelings of "I've already done so much. Why should I do more" -- I think it's important to try and refocus that. You care about her and seem to want the relationship to continue. With that being said, paying for X amount of time falls in line with that.

The choice to help her financially and otherwise was your own. No one can force those decisions on you. Her past, from what you've shared, is also littered with trauma and abuse. It may be safe to say that has taken its toll on her.

You chose to support her and help get her away from a negative environment/circumstances. She accepted your help and support. In a sense, that is relinquishing control to you. I feel you're aware of how without you her financial stability is, well... unstable. Aware of how she did need the home you provided. So on so forth. I say this strictly based on the multiple mentions of how she has no money and no stability elsewhere.

What's been made clear is: whether that is true or not she made the choice to leave and deal with whatever that came with. Money or no money. Intense family dynamic or not. Etc.

Here's a potential choice you can make: let her and give her her control of how or when things happen from here on out.
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« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2017, 07:01:47 PM »

Staff only

FYI, you've posted your ex's real name several times, and the board moderators have edited it out. We ask that you not use any real names or identifying info. Here's the relevant section of the guidelines. Thanks!

Excerpt
1.15 Confidentiality: Members shall not post information that directly or indirectly discloses the identify ofthemselves, their family members, friends or relationship partners with BPD. This includes (but is not limited to) direct information such as real names, addresses, business/home/cell phone numbers, e-mail addresses, etc., as well as, indirect information such as pet names, churches, etc.

Members having off-board information about another member shall not disclose it. Off-board is defined as anything not posted by the member, themselves, publicly, on the bpdfamily.com registering user names or avatars that they use elsewhere.

If such information is posted, the offending posts may be removed or edited without notice.
https://bpdfamily.com/guidelines#confidentiality
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« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2017, 08:34:35 PM »

she comes from a long ancestral lineage of pseudo con men, failed sociopaths and other unsuccessful, uneducated deviants. Actually most of them should be put away in the interest of public hygiene given what I know. This is each male in her family tree, excluding none

With all due respect, and I mean this not as an insult; but, rather as food for thought: Why be another one of those men?

Returning the stuff is a very valid point - maybe I haven't explored the idea of "being the bigger man"... .since I felt being the bigger man was saying come and get it if you want it, bring whoever with you. Police, whoever.

How is this being the bigger man? I am not seeing that. Can you please explain it?

I just know the act won't be interpreted how everyone here's is saying - you merely have to spend 10 seconds in that world to figure this out

And, again, with all due respect, you cannot be certain that we have not "been in that world." I'm willing to bet that some of our stories would shock you if you knew more about where we have come from and what we have experienced. To be sure, we come from a wide variety of backgrounds with completely different histories. We all share a common bond though; we've all been through some horrific experiences. Sure they are to varying degrees, but to each of us, we've either been or had someone in our respective lives who have "been in that world."

Storage is aggressive. Here's the key, pick up your sh*t or they charge you.

I can spin this a different way that conflicts with what you want... .

Keeping her stuff and not putting it in storage for her to retrieve is showing her that she can continue to use you. She could be laughing with those that you mentioned in the quote above because she has you storing her things free of charge. Just some food for thought.

2. Opting to give her the choice on how she retrieves her things is what I have suggested

What choice is she being given? No matter what you decide to do, her only choice is the one that you force onto her or replace what she can of what she left. That isn't much of a choice is it? Sorry, that spin just doesn't work from a rational perspective. Isn't something rational what you wanted?

3. I understand each man is responsible for his actions and that pinning it on childhood is pathetic

Acknowledging that our past and history teaches us is not pinning anything anywhere. It's a mature, rational, and intelligent understanding of who and what we are. I will also say that it is just the opposite of pathetic. When I was homeless, not caring whether I lived or died, and would rather stab someone as to talk to them, ignoring my history and teachings... .that's when I was pathetic. Facing what I have experienced is and choosing to grow beyond that... .that's what took strength, courage, and conviction.

Anyway, it's clear that you've made your decision about her things... .you are going to teach her a lesson. Got it. So, back to what I asked you in my original post here: How can we best support you?
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« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2017, 11:36:16 PM »

This is what I said in my last email about the stuff - and this is how I'm playing it

"I'm unsure how to take some of the recent gestures you've made ... .but I'm keeping hope in my head that things could still work out because of them... .

You blocked me on Whatsapp, I don't understand why you blocked me on Whatsapp but not on Instagram or blocked my phone number ? Would you block me everywhere if you wanted to cut me completely out ? I'm unsure what to do, if anything, about your belongings or if you would like them back; I know not everything is vital to you, but your passport and many pictures of you as a child which have to mean something to you, your cards, and then there's all of our stuff that we shared as a couple, it has not been easy going through that stuff. That's not considering all of your toiletries, shoes and other gadgets. "


She can answer that - before October 1st,... .then I'll reconsider sending it myself without prompt
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2017, 02:23:47 AM »

paul84,

that letter reads like a grievance list. "your stuff is kind of in the way (it hasnt been easy going through it) what do you want me to do with it, and by the way, whats up with your social media".

this is a bigger situation than the fact that she hasnt blocked you on one social media site, whereas twice she has told you not to contact her and told you shes in a "safe place". she is afraid. she is on the run. your communications to her basically tell her that this is all an inconvenience to you and that expectations are on her to clear the air. its the gist of your responses to advice given here. your focus is on tangential stuff.

if you want to save this, its going to require a radical perspective and approach change, but in the mean time, when every move counts double, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

are you ready to make this kind of change?
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2017, 02:58:50 AM »

paul84,

that letter reads like a grievance list. "your stuff is kind of in the way (it hasnt been easy going through it) what do you want me to do with it, and by the way, whats up with your social media".

this is a bigger situation than the fact that she hasnt blocked you on one social media site, whereas twice she has told you not to contact her and told you shes in a "safe place". she is afraid. she is on the run. your communications to her basically tell her that this is all an inconvenience to you and that expectations are on her to clear the air. its the gist of your responses to advice given here. your focus is on tangential stuff.

if you want to save this, its going to require a radical perspective and approach change, but in the mean time, when every move counts double, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

are you ready to make this kind of change?


WHAT AM I ATTEMPTING TO DO HERE BESIDES CLEAR THE AIR ?

Her stuff is in the way, she has blocked me places and not others, what's the matter with deleting me altogether except for the fact she knows I'll cling to hope, and I will, until October 1st when I'll play the field again... .to be sure... .she left me feeling humiliated and Ina state of nonexistence ... .I'm a good man, I'm not a nice guy or a pushover... .big difference ... .I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror after how IVE been treated by her and succumbing to some of the suggestions

she will explain herself to me as an adult before ever she'll bat an eyelid in this apartment again, that is a fact, F... A.C.T., fact. Like I will do with her if she ever gives me the oppportunity

I feel I'm being vilified here

Explain to me the ideal way of handling it and I'll review the option - because I am lost at sea... .

To me - this is THE way to handle it given how I've been treated in all this ... .

I'm not losing sight of my feelings altogether - even if hers are my priority

To me what I've written to her confirms my stance we are both to blame but let's make amends at fifty fifty

I will walk away from the negotiation table INDEFINITELY if those needs are not met
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2017, 03:36:37 AM »


WHAT AM I ATTEMPTING TO DO HERE BESIDES CLEAR THE AIR ?

the air is sufficiently clear. she left in emergency fashion and she said, twice, please dont contact me again.

paul84, reread your post and ask yourself what any of it has to do with why she left. ask yourself what any of it has to do with a proactive plan to revive the relationship. your plan so far and in the future is to air your grievances. if your priority is saving the relationship, your actions should show it, and this strategy has a seriously low success rate.

i read some good advice here once. a member asked another "do you want to be right, or do you want to save your relationship?". it changed that members life, not to mention their approach, and most of all, their relationship. what do you think?
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2017, 03:48:37 AM »

the air is sufficiently clear. she left in emergency fashion and she said, twice, please dont contact me again.

paul84, reread your post and ask yourself what any of it has to do with why she left. ask yourself what any of it has to do with a proactive plan to revive the relationship. your plan so far and in the future is to air your grievances. if your priority is saving the relationship, your actions should show it, and this strategy has a seriously low success rate.

i read some good advice here once. a member asked another "do you want to be right, or do you want to save your relationship?". it changed that members life, not to mention their approach, and most of all, their relationship. what do you think?


No directions - just vague add water and stir advice... .

I'm in meetings all day - I'll address this later... .


Also - she left with a sadistic grin on her face that day, she was not terrified, she was not in the middle of world war 3, just simply downed tools, looked me in the eye, smiled and left, which is hand and glove how she was abandoned by her own parents, in a feeble minded attempt at recreating some lame "abandonment trauma" which I'm already bored to tears of... .it's not sadness, it's can this sh*t get any weirder


She'll own her mistakes - or she will and die in that tomb
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I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2017, 05:28:24 AM »

Excerpt
Explain to me the ideal way of handling it and I'll review the option - because I am lost at sea... .

Hi Paul84,

This may help you somewhat to spot the shore I hope.

I hear a lot of anger in your posts towards your ex and I think it's fair to say that your anger has got you into a fine mess in the relationship.  Would you agree?

If you're attending anger management, what kind of feedback have you received and how long is it anticipated that you'll attend for?  I would strongly suggest that you stay the distance with this and take on board what is being delivered as it applies to you.  

As someone who has been on the receiving end of domestic abuse, I can tell you that whatever words you use right now to attempt to make amends and clear the air, they will not be well received.  Why you ask?  

When you hit her for the very first time, I assume you felt deep regret and apologised.  Right?  Presumably promised that it will never happen again?  Told her that you loved her and made excuses for your behaviour no doubt.  What happened after that?  You hit her again.  Then apologised?  And so on.  There comes a point that any woman will reach where the realisation dawns that words like these cannot be relied upon.

My message here (or direction as you interestingly choose to call it) is to quit contacting her.  She has asked that you don't and it would be a good idea to respect that.  If what she needs is space and time away from you to get her head together and work on herself I'd advise you to use the time (as has already been suggested here by IsThisThingOn) to do the same thing yourself.  Because Paul84, actions speak louder than words.  

If you really wish to save the relationship OR get involved in another woman's life (you also mention playing the field after October 1st) I think it's important you recognise in fairness to these women that a significant change is required on your part.  The violence is a maladaptive coping mechanism and one that needs attention.

Where I am in the world there are perpetrator programmes for domestic abusers, which can be voluntarily entered for men who are ready and willing to make the changes that are necessary in their mindset to stop being violent towards people close to them.  Take a look online and see what you can find in your area.  Something like this, with your actual commitment, speaks volumes.  With the right help, you can potentially tackle some of the childhood issues that you speak of head on and choose to no longer allow these to control the direction your life goes in.  If you wish to win her back, I can think of no better way than taking a long hard look at yourself and putting the work in.  

Posting here and admitting what you have done has taken courage.  I respect that.  However, words are easy.  Feigning remorse is very simple to an abuser.  The difference between a man who is going to re offend and one who isn't is the level of truth he's willing to tell himself in private and the effort he is prepared to put into changing.  

Direction:  Stop placing blame.  (Whatever wrongs she may have done in the r/s, nobody is responsible for your actions but yourself and it is those actions that are the issue here which have caused her to leave)
Direction:  Rise above your anger and do the right thing about her belongings.  

Finally, here's an article about what it takes to be in a BPD relationship.  Ask yourself if you can see yourself committing to this for your ex.  What work would you need to put in to be in a position to really offer her what she needs?  This is something else you could be looking at if you're really serious about wanting to save the relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship  
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« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2017, 06:02:03 AM »

Just to shift gears for a moment... .

There are many members here that have been ghosted. It "messes with your head". I can think of a few who have struggled for years to absorb the blow. They can't see past it. Its hard. It blows a hole in your psyche the size of a football. You are flooded with rejection/abandonment trauma. You might flip between anger and deep hurt and self-doubt and outrage and indignation and then back again. One of the worst things about ghosting is that you can't process it early one. It can take months. You try but you mind runs wild because it i so sudden and so empty and there are so things you weren't told, pieces that don't fit together.

Our "Saving Board" is a bit of an intervention board. One of the first things we often have to do is to tell members to stop doing what they are doing. Why? Because often they are doing things o make matter worse. A common statement is "you can't make things better until you stop making them worse". This is hard advice for anyone to take - especially when they are in a state of anxiety. It takes a leap of faith that the people who are advising you have no agenda other that to help. Most see that. When its pointed out that what they are doing isn't working, they take pause. They see that it is true.

Part of that helping is often to shout "stop" a lot louder than we say "we're sorry you've been wounded". That part usually comes after we get past "stop".

So, I do want to say that we all know you are hurting. Some of us know it from first hand experience. Some of us know it from watching others go through the gut wrenching experience of someone ghosting. Ghosting is an awful thing to do to someone. Studies show that it is happening in society in increasing numbers. It's a clearly a negative social trend and one that leaves behind a lot of collateral damage - bitterness.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I want you to know that a lot of people have come together to donate time and pay the bills for this place to be here to help you get through what you are going through.

We're here for you.  Hopefully, some day, you will be here for someone else.  Hense, the name bpdfamily.
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IsThisThingOn
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« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2017, 11:51:51 AM »

Hi Paul,

It’s a new day here with the bpdfamily and I’d like to second what Skip said in saying I’m sorry you’re going through this situation. When we’re hurting it is sometimes hard to pause long enough to find the clear direction or truly hear the advice we so desperately seek. Again, as Skip mentioned, sometimes (often times in my own personal experience) it is helpful to have someone remind you to “Stop. Pause. Review. Refocus”

It is my hope that you can look at this brand new day as a brand new 24 hours worth of opportunities to do just that: Stop. Pause. Review. Refocus.

I see that you are seeking advice you feel you have yet to receive. Your thread has received a great deal of attention from many seeking to offer their advice based on their own experiences as well as what they’ve learned through their journey. I thought maybe putting it all into one place would help you to revisit and grant you the opportunity to decide how you’d like to embrace it:

Flourdust
Excerpt
It sounds like your ex has left you, and she's been clear so far that she wants you to keep your distance. You should respect that.

Steelwork
Excerpt
I get a sense that you haven't found your situation reflected in the hundreds of posts you have read. I remember feeling that way, too. There's an article on here somewhere with a statement to the effect of "Your relationship was special, but it wasn't THAT special." Very true, I've found, in my case.
I won't state the obvious about hitting people (especially intimates). I would however point out that the violence in your past relationship with this person is a major reason not to press for unwanted contact.

Meili
Excerpt
Trying to rationalize emotional situations is frustrating at worst and futile at best. I know that it's hard, but you'll serve yourself greatest if you try to stop. The axiom "It is what it is" is a great thing to remember.

It looks like you are trying to apply your logic to an illogical situation. That just won't work.

OK, you acknowledge that enough time has not passed to effectively change. That's a good realization. You have the time to focus on yourself and figure yourself out. It's a very worthwhile endeavor.

SIDE NOTE: Meili makes a great point here that many others have made as well and will continue to make, I assure you. Self care, self love, self awareness. Being able to figure yourself out first and foremost gives you clarity and insight you may not have previously possessed. Furthermore, it allows you to grow as a person… which could never be a bad thing.

Excerpt
I'm willing to bet that some of our stories would shock you if you knew more about where we have come from and what we have experienced. To be sure, we come from a wide variety of backgrounds with completely different histories. We all share a common bond though; we've all been through some horrific experiences. Sure they are to varying degrees, but to each of us, we've either been or had someone in our respective lives who have "been in that world."

SIDE NOTE: I see the message here as “We all suffer similar wounds. Our experiences vary but the core is the same” – This truly is a wonderful community full of supportive individuals all willing to lend a hand. Sometimes tender sometimes more ‘Firm but Fair’

Skip
Excerpt
I would nicely pack these things, label the boxes, and put them in a storage unit near to where she lives or works and send her the combination to the lock. Pay the rent for sixty days. Send her a card that says, I know you will need these things so I put them in storage so that you can have access to them at your convenience. Please feel free to change the lock. The contract is paid though __ /__ / __

This is the high road. She will appreciate it.

Excerpt
She left in a way to obviate any discussion on the matter. Her messages to you are clear. At least for now, she wants you to leave her alone for as long as she wants to be left alone, maybe forever. There is no ambiguity here. No indication of a game.

Excerpt
Alternatively, you could pack it up in really nice containers that she will like and keep... .

What are your alternatives? Sit and wait while she will gets another passport. This only works in your favor if your move quickly and before you get a demand letter, a police visit, or a lawsuit served.

What are your alternative positive actions?

SIDE NOTE: Have you taken the time for yourself to ponder this question? Have you come up with any other positive actions you could potentially follow through with? If so, can you share those?

Once removed
Excerpt
you are speculating as to why she didnt block you on instagram. this situation is not dire because either of you have been reading the other well. it got me, many of us tripped up, confused, and working against ourselves.

Excerpt
if you want her back, you need a plan that is solutions oriented. powerful demonstrations like the suggestion to put her advice in storage, and with great care. you may be right that her resolve is not at 100%, though it is likely those around her are going to be pushing it there.

Excerpt
dont construe the fact that she hasnt claimed her belongings as "leaving a door open" - do have an approach that she hasnt claimed her belongings, and that gives you an opportunity to make a powerful demonstration of amends.

Excerpt
the air is sufficiently clear. she left in emergency fashion and she said, twice, please dont contact me again.

Excerpt
i read some good advice here once. a member asked another "do you want to be right, or do you want to save your relationship?". it changed that members life, not to mention their approach, and most of all, their relationship. what do you think?

SIDE NOTE: I myself found I had to overcome my desire to “be right” … I had to learn there is no right or wrong, there are feelings and emotions on both ends. Hers and yours. Both equally important.  With that being said, I also had to learn the only feelings/emotions I could control are my own. With that, my responses and reactions. It was difficult, I am still learning. Accepting I needed to in the first place was step number 1 for me.

Excerpt
this is a bigger situation than the fact that she hasnt blocked you on one social media site, whereas twice she has told you not to contact her and told you shes in a "safe place". she is afraid. she is on the run. your communications to her basically tell her that this is all an inconvenience to you and that expectations are on her to clear the air. its the gist of your responses to advice given here. your focus is on tangential stuff.

if you want to save this, its going to require a radical perspective and approach change, but in the mean time, when every move counts double, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

are you ready to make this kind of change?

SIDE NOTE: Have you pondered this question? What does that change look like from your perspective? How will it positively impact your circumstance?

Harley Quinn
Excerpt
She has a right to decide without your influence what she does from this point, so this may be your ONLY opportunity to do the right thing by her and show her that you are capable of that.

Excerpt

Direction:  Stop placing blame.  (Whatever wrongs she may have done in the r/s, nobody is responsible for your actions but yourself and it is those actions that are the issue here which have caused her to leave)

Direction:  Rise above your anger and do the right thing about her belongings. 

It’s clear that you are angry, upset, seeking answers, etc.  I hope you can find some of those answers within the invaluable advice provided to you here as well as all the snippets sprinkled throughout the entire thread. My hope is you can see that sometimes “It takes a village” and from the looks of it, the whole bpdfamily Village has come out to offer you advice and show that we are in fact all here for each other.  Use this new day to your advantage. Try something new… even if you’re unsure whether or not it will do any good in bringing your situation a little bit closer to a positive outcome, whatever that outcome may be.

Take the time to take care of yourself. Focus on your own personal growth. How can your circumstances benefit you positively? What can it all teach you? What is something you can do Today for your own self-care?  Furthermore, how can we best support you in that?

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« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2017, 02:04:10 PM »

I'm not taking any of this advice - it's just weakling sh*t... .Roland park ladies tea

BALLS is what's needed here - she'll come crawling back eventually

Anyway thanks for your time, guys

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« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2017, 10:19:24 AM »

How is it going? Any updates?
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« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 08:33:37 AM »

How is it going? Any updates?

What's up, Skip,... .I had this thread bookmarked, and I've stumbled across it today and wanted to apologise to people for being a bit abrasive, I know folks were attempting to give me advice and I became fairly sardonic towards the end. So - I'm sorry about that.

My update,... .

It's been 2 months and contact has been as follows:

September 17th of September I Private messaged her on Instagram with a blunt "what's the story with your stuff,... .to which she responded "you can throw it out",... .I matched the puerile nature of the response with one of my own saying "done. Take my name and picture off your profile",... .she complied and changed the picture of us to one of her alone, and removed the "Paul ❤️" part of the profile biography,... .I proceeded to block her and instantly regretted my decision,... .I then unblocked her, 3 hours later... .

A day later - somewhat remorseful for how short I had been with her I wrote an email, the contents of which amounted to several paragraphs but can be summarised as "I'm sorry for blocking you, I regret it and it's not very becoming for someone my age, I have since followed you back again; I've decided not to throw out your stuff, there is stuff here with clear sentimental value and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I threw it out, in a spiteful fashion" ... .I am well aware that if she was Physically standing in front of me she would not be asking me to throw out these items,... .and so the stuff is still in my apartment 2 months later,... .this email was ignored and she didn't follow me back on Instagram (for those unfamiliar with Instagram, once a person is blocked, they disappear from BOTH people's friend list)

Fast forward to 29th of September where I liked a photograohy picture she took on her profile, then invited her to a formal event via email (email at this point was the only line of communication I had left with her),... .I was direct and unemotional with the invite, using a cheerful, outgoing approach because I felt that since a month or so had passed that maybe the anger or the hate or fear or whatever she was feeling towards me had subsided somewhat,... .

This email was ignored, too

HOWEVER,... .

To my surprise SHE requested ME on instrgam that same night (29th September)... .obviously I was delighted, so I private messaged her an hour later saying "thanks for the add" ... .she ignored it... .the following day I decided to ask her if she wanted to attend the event with me ... .she ignored that message too... .

And that's where we are as of today,... .I have been no contact since September 29th as I truly felt this was DONE and DONE,... .I'm not without questions, though... .

Is she merely seeking attention ? Is she getting something from seeing me behave "desperately" (although I don't derive desperation from my recent DM's), is all form of contact from me meant to strengthen her and her self-esteem while making me appear weak ? Does ignoring me make her feel strong, give her an ego boost ? Does she want to control me by holding me hostage to silent treatment while at the same time being able to blame me for it ? If I get angry with her, she will be able to demonstrate with proof what her life was like living with "such a monster", if I get sad/introspective, she can paint me as weak and her as strong; Thereby reversing the effects of how she felt when I attacked her.

All of these statements and questions are relevant even in the circumstance that she has a new boyfriend even, or that she has moved on. The questions still apply. If she has a new boyfriend why would she go out of her way to court attention from me ? She would be so caught up in her new bliss that I would/should be an afterthought. If she hated me and cared very little, why would she request my friendship on Instagram ? Certainly she was cold enough to reject my earlier emails which admittedly were tinged with desperation and pleas, and certainly more dramatic than the liking of a simple picture, she certainly would have the capacity, in my opinion, to see that I had liked her picture and ignored that, too. Without question.


So my question is what's the outlook here, guys... .again I have been in touch in almost 4 weeks in any shape or form,... .

All I really have is friend request to go on,... .
Still want her back obviously, reached out to my dad and he said these things can take months
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« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 08:49:42 AM »

So, to summarize: she asked you to leave her alone, she's ignored all of your communications, and she added you on Instagram. The simplest and cleanest explanation is that she wants you to leave her alone but she is mildly curious, so she added you.

You're generating a lot of scenarios out of this ... .as you said, you seem pretty obsessed. What steps can you take to get yourself to a more balanced place? Take a look at the toolbar on the right side of this page -- the first tool is called Wisemind, and it's about balancing your emotional reactions with thoughtful reasoning and self-control. What do you think?
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« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2017, 08:52:06 AM »

hi Paul,

People with this mental illness desire closeness and fear it.  both with incredibly intensity.   part of the illness is a fear of engulfment,  which is hard to comprehend when you first learn of it.   basically since pwBPD don't have a strong well defined sense of self they fear if they are with you they will disappear into you.  the other half of the equation is a desperate need for love and attachment.    managing those contradictory fears is what creates the push/pull I love you - go away,   I hate you don't leave me dynamic that we are all so familiar with.

in the word of social media, blocking/unblocking is a way to manage those fears.    that could be one of the things going on.   there may be others.


Excerpt
because I felt that since a month or so had passed that maybe the anger or the hate or fear or whatever she was feeling towards me had subsided somewhat,... .

pwBPD have harmfully intense emotions that flip from all one, to completely the other.   It's called splitting.   there is no really good way to figure out how long splitting takes but it is  recognized that returning to emotional baseline, takes longer for a pwBPD.

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« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2017, 09:24:14 AM »

Her walking out most likely meant one of two things:

She is done -or-
She wanted to send a strong message for you to change.


Does that sound reasonable?
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« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2017, 09:34:43 AM »

hi Paul,

People with this mental illness desire closeness and fear it.  both with incredibly intensity.   part of the illness is a fear of engulfment,  which is hard to comprehend when you first learn of it.   basically since pwBPD don't have a strong well defined sense of self they fear if they are with you they will disappear into you.  the other half of the equation is a desperate need for love and attachment.    managing those contradictory fears is what creates the push/pull I love you - go away,   I hate you don't leave me dynamic that we are all so familiar with.

in the word of social media, blocking/unblocking is a way to manage those fears.    that could be one of the things going on.   there may be others.


pwBPD have harmfully intense emotions that flip from all one, to completely the other.   It's called splitting.   there is no really good way to figure out how long splitting takes but it is  recognized that returning to emotional baseline, takes longer for a pwBPD.

'ducks




Yeah I hear you, ive read a lot into the condition, I know all this splitting and. Intense emotions stuff


Still the bottom line to me is that if she wanted me GONE as these guys are saying, she wouldn't need to check up on me or want to

"Mild curiosity" doesn't really cut it - not if she wanted me out of her life


I mean what the heck else was I gonna do , of course I was going to message her when I saw she had added me on Instagram. She had to have known that. I had not heard from her in over a month and change at that point ,... .it's puerile to assume differently

But like I said I've left it go and it's going on a month with NC, what will be will be I guess

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« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2017, 09:39:46 AM »

Her walking out most likely meant one of two things:

She is done -or-
She wanted to send a strong message for you to change.


Does that sound reasonable?


Yeah - but it still doesn't hold her to account for her actions in adding me back to her social media

Why would you even want to be near me after what I did ? Much less check up on me ?

She still cares, obviously

nobody is going to convince me that if someone truly was FINISHED with emphasis on FINISHED, that they'd still need to check up on me like she is obviously attempting to do,... .I'll see how it plays out, but I haven't went back on my word, I haven't sent one message to her since August that is smothered in emotion and love and etc,... .I know that'll only make me look pathetic, so essentially I'm still waiting it out, but I have no intention of letting those signals such as "requesting me on Instagram" pass by unnoticed ... .that to me was a statement on her behalf and I followed up on it, like ny concerned/sane person who cares about her would do
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« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2017, 09:51:13 AM »

OK, so let's go with "she wanted to send a strong message for you to change".

This is consistent with the leaving your photo on her profile. This is consistent with her having "I love   ". This is even consistent with leaving her stuff behind. This would also explain the Instragam access - a breadcrumb left in the trail she ran away on... .

Does this seem to be a possible explanation?
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« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2017, 09:57:44 AM »

Excerpt
Yeah - but it still doesn't hold her to account for her actions in adding me back to her social media
Believe what you like... .
Of course... .
However, I could certainly see a scenario, where I am done with a guy, do not want them in my life, but also want to keep them on social media.  I cannot guess what she is thinking.  However, if I felt someone was unsafe for me, I may want to keep tabs on them in order to feel safe.  I may want to keep them on social media to be i formed of update like if they move towns, have a new love interest, and maybe to generally look for patterns on where their focus is cause it could help me feel a bit more aware of things generally.

Not saying this is the scenario you have.  Just saying, I can see One scenario where I would want to be aware of someone’s happenings even tho I am not looking for a relationship with them.  I am sure there are various other possibilities as well, so not really sure how soeculating can help.

Personally... .I had a positive relationship with my ex’s lawyer.  We actually bonded over some parenting stuff, got along great, we even hung out a time or two.  After my break up, she made a FB request to me that I accepted.  I kinda was excited to have her back in my life as a friend.  I assumed she would want to meet up, kinda touch bases, catch up on one another’s life.  I found it odd... .she made a friend request, but then never followed through to respond to any of my attempts for further contact.  Now, maybe she simply doesn’t use FB messanger or such. (Neither do I really) Yet, it really began to bother me.  After a year of being my friend, she made no efforts to interact.  Imo, this was suspicious.  I started thinking maybe she was keeping tabs on me to incriminate me in case something went doen between ex and I.  My ex, falsely accused me of being abusive... .even our MC attempted to reunite us and change his perspective on this, to no avail.  He was feeling violent and triggered, projecting it.  Anywhoo... .  it bugged me lots, after noticing a year of silence on the lawyers part... .why did she bother to friend me?  Neither of us actually post updates or famiky stuff... .so there was no reason or benefit to the friending.  I ended up unfriending her.  It unerved me thinking that ex was possibly using her to keep tabs on me, maybe report to him my whereabouts, if I move, or post anything incriminating.  I mean, I really do not know... .just... .way I saw it... .there was no other “good” reason for her to friend me but never connect.

So kindly... .
Maybe distancing is a safest course for you?  Idk, just sayin.
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« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2017, 10:42:14 AM »

Paul, you also have to take into account that this is likely a one sided situation for her... .let me explain. She's unlikely to be acutely aware that her actions to emotionally hurt you were hurtful... .as far as she was concerned she was just behaving in a manner that was absolutely necessary for the situation in hand and the emotions she was experiencing. What she is aware of is your physical and verbal response, that she is HIGHLY sensitive to. She's likely thinking "why on earth is the man I love hitting me, I haven't done anything to deserve this, I love him and he's supposed to love me". So, she is likely to have taken advice on fleeing a domestic violent man... .which you are... .the advice would likely to be to have an escape plan, run for the hills and don't look back. She is scared sh!tless of you. She will probably be advised not to come and get her things from you. HOWEVER, she also has strong feelings for you and may have even felt like she deserved the hitting, she may well be able to rationalise it and be having some inner torment with regards to reaching out to you "he wasn't so bad, he loved me". This is unlikely to be any different from any domestic violence victim... .some might even describe it as Stockholm syndrome.

If she came back to you... .couple of months down the line after you're all relaxed and happy again, she revs you up, like properly revs you up, accuses you of having an affair, says you're horrible to her... .all the bad things that hurt your ego... .will you slap her?

Don't ask for her back until you know for sure the answer to that is absolutely no, I will do XYZ instead.
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« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2017, 10:43:03 AM »

OK, so let's go with "she wanted to send a strong message for you to change".

This is consistent with the leaving your photo on her profile. This is consistent with her having "I love   ". This is even consistent with leaving her stuff behind. This would also explain the Instragam access - a breadcrumb left in the trail she ran away on... .

Does this seem to be a possible explanation?


Nah she took the picture and the message down per my request - otherwise it would still be there. plus - she told me to throw out her stuff, I didn't concede to that demand because I'm not going to dump her valuables into the street on a whim. She's prone to depressive episodes and has no money to have it collected - with that in mind I decided to hang onto the stuff. Lol she called my bluff in other words, I was trying to use her stuff as a way to lure her back eventually but she laid waste to that idea. Still - it's not right given I know she collects and hangs onto every little thing, there's no way she'd agree to having her stuff tossed in any other circumstance but to call my bluff and because she's depressed and privately she knows I'm not that heartless despite how "macho" I might come across,... .she knew I wouldn't throw it out


But from me to you - I'm tapped out at this point and I'm not making contact with her again until she does it first. Again it's going on a month of this silliness and life moves forward eventually,... .and to add - I have no made but three attempts since August to contact her, and one of those attempts was because she friended me on Instagram

I look at most breakups and I've had a pretty skewed vision of how quickly things reconcile, for me up until now, for instance, I was prepared to say 1 month was a lifetime to get ones mind in a place to reconcile. However - I'm fastly learning that it's more like 4-6 months before any success can really be made especially in circumstances like mine

With that in mind, I have to keep NC going


I like your breadcrumb and trail analogy - I mean - no matter which way you look at it, keeping that line of communication open sends a message, and it's not mere curiosity since I don't even post pictures or use the account , with my profession I don't use social media. So again - how I interpret it; is that she's saying "one step at a time" but we're "on the road to reconciliation" ... .it's just going to be at a snails pace,... .she either wants to be friends or wants to get back with me, otherwise there is no explanation in the world for wanting to re-add me on social media almost a month after I blocked her,... .especially when I don't use Instagram (this removes the prying eyes situation and how my life is going)
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« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2017, 10:51:28 AM »

Believe what you like... .
Of course... .
However, I could certainly see a scenario, where I am done with a guy, do not want them in my life, but also want to keep them on social media.  I cannot guess what she is thinking.  However, if I felt someone was unsafe for me, I may want to keep tabs on them in order to feel safe.  I may want to keep them on social media to be i formed of update like if they move towns, have a new love interest, and maybe to generally look for patterns on where their focus is cause it could help me feel a bit more aware of things generally.

Not saying this is the scenario you have.  Just saying, I can see One scenario where I would want to be aware of someone’s happenings even tho I am not looking for a relationship with them.  I am sure there are various other possibilities as well, so not really sure how soeculating can help.

Personally... .I had a positive relationship with my ex’s lawyer.  We actually bonded over some parenting stuff, got along great, we even hung out a time or two.  After my break up, she made a FB request to me that I accepted.  I kinda was excited to have her back in my life as a friend.  I assumed she would want to meet up, kinda touch bases, catch up on one another’s life.  I found it odd... .she made a friend request, but then never followed through to respond to any of my attempts for further contact.  Now, maybe she simply doesn’t use FB messanger or such. (Neither do I really) Yet, it really began to bother me.  After a year of being my friend, she made no efforts to interact.  Imo, this was suspicious.  I started thinking maybe she was keeping tabs on me to incriminate me in case something went doen between ex and I.  My ex, falsely accused me of being abusive... .even our MC attempted to reunite us and change his perspective on this, to no avail.  He was feeling violent and triggered, projecting it.  Anywhoo... .  it bugged me lots, after noticing a year of silence on the lawyers part... .why did she bother to friend me?  Neither of us actually post updates or famiky stuff... .so there was no reason or benefit to the friending.  I ended up unfriending her.  It unerved me thinking that ex was possibly using her to keep tabs on me, maybe report to him my whereabouts, if I move, or post anything incriminating.  I mean, I really do not know... .just... .way I saw it... .there was no other “good” reason for her to friend me but never connect.

So kindly... .
Maybe distancing is a safest course for you?  Idk, just sayin.


Sounds a bit like how my situation could turn out in the future - except there are some differences. Her family is extremely antisocial and have multiple documents supporting this online. Whereas my family are educated and upstanding people in the community. None of us have ever been in trouble with the law.

My thinking is - if she was using social media as a means to keep safe, she'd do anything but open herself up to the potential for me to start threatening her - in fact - if she was doing it for that reason it would be to lay a trap and incriminate me, but I'm not stupid, none of my communication has been remotely threatening or abusive. You make a good point about knowing my whereabouts - but I don't use the app at all, not even one picture or post on my account and it's been that way for years. I only use the Instagram to follow photography accounts. None of my friends know I use it. Only her, exclusively. She is the only person on earth basically, that knows my account.

Your ex sounds a lot sneaker than mine, also. My ex was not nearly as assertive as that. She is more anxious and awkward when out in those kinds of situations than fuelled on by a desire to inflict damage. She's a classic rage turned inwards type, it rarely ever spills outwardly
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2017, 11:19:43 AM »


Paul, you also have to take into account that this is likely a one sided situation for her... .let me explain. She's unlikely to be acutely aware that her actions to emotionally hurt you were hurtful... .as far as she was concerned she was just behaving in a manner that was absolutely necessary for the situation in hand and the emotions she was experiencing. What she is aware of is your physical and verbal response, that she is HIGHLY sensitive to. She's likely thinking "why on earth is the man I love hitting me, I haven't done anything to deserve this, I love him and he's supposed to love me". So, she is likely to have taken advice on fleeing a domestic violent man... .which you are... .the advice would likely to be to have an escape plan, run for the hills and don't look back. She is scared sh!tless of you. She will probably be advised not to come and get her things from you. HOWEVER, she also has strong feelings for you and may have even felt like she deserved the hitting, she may well be able to rationalise it and be having some inner torment with regards to reaching out to you "he wasn't so bad, he loved me". This is unlikely to be any different from any domestic violence victim... .some might even describe it as Stockholm syndrome.

If she came back to you... .couple of months down the line after you're all relaxed and happy again, she revs you up, like properly revs you up, accuses you of having an affair, says you're horrible to her... .all the bad things that hurt your ego... .will you slap her?

Don't ask for her back until you know for sure the answer to that is absolutely no, I will do XYZ instead.


Its hard having to sit here and read this stuff being said about me - but I can't argue with any of your post as far as my identity in this relationship being that of a domestic abuser and that the person I love is sacred, hard to say the least. But I can't look at it any other way than logically and pragmatically - and you're right. She is scared, I am a domestic abuser who has hit a woman, and why else would she want anything to do with me unless for retribution. It all makes perfect sense.

What also makes sense - and this is where it's murky - is yoir comment about Stockholm syndrome, and how this is similar to a lot of domestic violence situations. Again - I don't really want to be with someone who afraid of me and who feels like they deserve to be slapped - I mean - retrospectively I don't know what got into me, but the murky thing about the quiet BPD waof is the subtle ways she used to provoke me, and I'm a person who is EXTREMELY conscious of everything that goes on around me - I have had this nervous sensitivity thing to my environment since a child - and not a lot escapes me - I'm also a lot smarter than my ex girlfriend and when she tried to pull the wool over my eyes I put my foot down, period. There was none of this second guessing my sanity stuff that she was trying to pull off. Taking her cues from her parents who would always be convincing her that the other one was "mad". No such issue with me. I am straightlaced in all my dealings. Reality and logic are king.  If something is bothering me - I communicated it for hours with her, but I came to find out she was using all this communication as ammunition to rile me up when she was feeling disagreeable - and instead of expressing it she would go to these underhanded tactics


None of it was lost on me and I wasn't having it under my roof

For a year or two I put up with it but eventually I snapped because I was being taken for a fool, and that combined with mocking smiles while she was doing this stuff deliberately to defy issues I thought we'd put to bed and it just got to this point. And it's even harder for me because of how my personality is structured , these were vulnerabilities of mine that i trusted her with. And vulnerable is not how I present to the world. Just all seemed like a huge joke to her. Worse was trying to get her to care. She feigned empathy in the most thinly veiled manner possible. It was more insulting when she tried to care than when she didn't care at all.

You're right in the sense that she may feel she deserved it but I dont feel any better about that than she does. trust me.

All of this I am learning about with her condition. This is how she inwardly rages. She's not the type to make accusatory remarks like you suggested (affairs or laying blame) it's much more passive-aggressively subtle - like singing songs with lyrics that are aimed at something dear to me, or deliberately not doing a task she has committed herself to doing on my behalf - and I'm not in the house yelling at her like some kind of drill sargeant - this is all politely asked for and agreed to ahead of time. It's stuff like that and then when things don't go my way in the world, it appears she takes pleasure or relishes it and that she sees it as some form of inadequacy instead of consoling me about it. That stuff kills me. Worse still is that I feel embarrassed as hell having to ask for that stuff from a woman. So for her to understand this and to keep up with it and not explain why just eroded my patience down to nothing


Maybe we aren't meant to be under that dysfunctional dynamic but I'm not perfect either

If she was to come back I'd certainly look at therapy and anger management - and she would definitely be advised by me to look into this DBT stuff im reading about
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2017, 12:35:50 PM »

Nah she took the picture and the message down per my request... .

You are misunderstanding what I wrote.  

1. She left to send you a message about changing they way treat her (most likely dominate her). The fact that she didn't erase you (my point earlier) supports that. The reason a women walks out like that is because a man isn't listening.

2. By holding her stuff to "lure her back" and going NC, you sent her a message that you aren't interested in what is upsetting her, you are trying to "dominate" her back. She realized how bad things are and didn't play.

3. When you sent the September text, is was more of the same. Power and domination. Or to use your words "balls". She further realized how that you weren't interested in hearing her are and didn't play.

4. When you sent a conciliatory note... .she gave you a tiny nod of validation (the tiniest possible). She hasn't closed the door.

You can run a relationship this way. Being dominate and aggressive with a weak person, is a type of coupling. You can cycle through battles like this and prevail a number of times. Typically it comes to one battle too many and the women walks for good. I've read the story here, 1,000s of times.

Sending her her stuff in a caring way and then reaching out to hear her (rather than go somewhere) would have been a constructive play.

Holding her personal items hostage. Having a temper exchange via email. Being contrite. Bouncing to NC. It's a pattern she knows - and doesn't like.

But most importantly, this is only advice. It's your ballgame. You don't need to hear members here either.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

You call the plays. You win or lose the game.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2017, 01:05:15 PM »

So - if all that is true (I'm not saying it is),... .what's the next step,... .

I mean sh*t, the only thing I have is this Instagram thing,... .

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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2017, 01:42:40 PM »

So - if all that is true (I'm not saying it is),... .what's the next step,... .

Decide if that narrative seems real and if your can commit to listening to her and changing your "it takes big balls" approach to love.

We can give you tactics to temporarily "lure her back" (we gave you one with the returning her stuff in really nice containers), but what the above narrative suggests is that significant change in your mindset is necessary to actually improve your relationship.

I don't sense that you are up for that, though. Your words suggest that being true to your dominant style is more important than this relationship.

Dominance and strength aren't the same thing. Most likely she is attracted to one and repelled by the other.
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« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2017, 02:47:57 PM »

Hi Paul

Excerpt
Worse still is that I feel embarrassed as hell having to ask for that stuff from a woman.

Could you elaborate on this a little?  I'm intrigued.  Would you feel less embarrassed asking someone who wasn't a woman?  What was it you asked her to do for you?

Going back to your confusion around Stockholm Syndrome.  I was physically abused by my ex partner and despite that and the fear it created within me - which led to my self preservation steps much like your ex - I still had love for him.  It hurt like hell to leave him and I did still care about his well being.  I hoped he could find it in him to change.  Not for me, for our relationship, but for himself and his future happiness.  Unless he takes the steps to address his own issues he will hurt others and will never find a lasting relationship with someone as every woman will eventually leave him as I did.  I can see why she might want to keep a link open.  Even if she still loves you however, it does not guarantee a way back.  Not without serious work, self reflection and commitment on your part to lasting change.  Before she will even think of going near you, I'd suspect.  Perhaps she is hoping to hear something from you that shows you are taking real tangible steps to own what you've done and ensure it can never happen again.

I'm not saying this is necessarily your next step, as there are (as Skip has advised) other small steps you can take to pave the way for better communication and to show her you care, but at some point you need to get real with yourself about the abuse, face your demons and then get real with her about it - if she gives you that chance.   

Love and light x
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« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2017, 02:57:23 PM »

So nothing then ... .


I guess I'll see you guys again For an update in a Couple of months

Be well
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