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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Mental Disorder or on purpose?  (Read 506 times)
AngelBuds
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« on: September 10, 2017, 10:37:16 AM »

I am pretty broken up right now so maybe this question does not make sense.  But, since I lost my husband last year to what looks like BPD, I have tons of questions.

How do you tell if someone Suddenly: has a mental disorder or if that person is just choosing to be an evil *hole?  What's the difference between a mental break down and mental disorder?  What's the difference between 'illness in their head' and 'they know exactly what and why they are saying what they saying'?
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 05:06:46 PM »

I struggle with that as well. Sometimes I think they become blurred.

Has he ever shown signs before?

Ever on any psych meds?

How much research have you done on this site verse his previous behaviors in your relationship?
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AngelBuds
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 10:52:50 PM »

Hi, I have known him 6 years.  Last 11 months he has been acting like he has BPD.  I have been reading up on BPD specifically for a few weeks, hours upon hours a day.  I joined my local NAMI.  I have a lifetime of experience with mental disorders plus studied Psychology.  But I cannot get him to a Dr. for a DX, so I am just going by what I see.  I could use all the help I can get Smiling (click to insert in post)  He is wonderful until he flips for no reason. 

I am 9 wks and 2 days pregnant so I am really considering whether we can make it or what I need to do.  One day he says he will get help, another day he says no.  I basically have to read and do everything for him-so he evens blames me for not getting him into a group *sigh* there is no peer to peer group in our town, I searched.  I gave him free help numbers and he said I insulted him?  Text book BPD, plus add'l personality disorders. 
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2017, 11:42:18 PM »

Hi AB,

I'm glad that you have local support through NAMI, and also through a counselor.  The latter especially will be helpful to keep you safe and hopefully refer you to local recources for DV of needed and also maybe for help with your unborn child.

Being isolated is a tough place to be,  especially if the worst behaviors are behind closed doors. PwBPD  (people with BPD) often suffer from lack of a core sense of Self. If he got value from his work,  it's likely being off work is making this worse.  He's going to lash out at the closest target, you.  Of course it's undeserved. I had sciatica for over a year a decade ago.  The constant pain was no fun (likely another trigger,  even if it has nothing to do with you).

Have you had a chance to look at the lessons on the right sidebar, especially the communication tools in Lesson 2? They can give you tips on how to deal with his conflict behaviors. 
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 03:53:30 PM »

Hello AngelBuds, I've caught up on your other threads, but am posting here because it is the most recent.  Pro-tip -- If you concentrate on just one thread for now, you'll keep all the folks who are keeping up with you and replying in one place.  New people can read your thread to catch up, etc.  The system lets us know when there's a new post on a thread we've been following (you can see this too on the "Show new replies to your posts" link near the top of the page).

You asked what's going on with your husband, and if he's just being a jerk.  It's definitely possible that many things are going on at once, maybe inluding BPD.  :)iagnoses with mental illness can be hard to pin down.  If he is willing to go to therapy, and finds a therapist experienced with personality disorders, a diagnosis can be helpful, but that's a long term prospect.  Many of us find it more immediately helpful to focus on the *behaviors*, the things we can observe.  Seeing and talking about those behaviors helps us get our bearings and figure out how we can work on our own behavior (the only thing we directly control) to make things better.

You asked about things coming up suddenly.  Personality disorders are lifelong patterns, but they definitely can get worse and better, sometimes suddenly worse with stress.  You said that within a short period of time, you became healthy and were no longer dependent on your husband, he lost his job, and you became pregnant.  The big shift was right when you got healthy, which makes sense, I think.  Those three things all happening at once is a huge stress load for anyone, and easily could make BPD symptoms much worse.

It is totally awesome that you are putting in the work to study BPD!  This determination is a huge strength for you.  The information available on the Web can sometimes be good, sometimes not.  There is fantastic information on this site, as Turkish has pointed out.  :)ig in!  Besides the site, have you read any of the books on the topic, such as "Walking on Eggshells?"  Books are a very important part of coming up to speed and help in a different way from the boards and Web reading.  Let us know which ones you've read, and if not, whether you're game to tackle "Eggshells."

I wanted to share with you some of the stages I went through when I first arrived here:

1.  Venting and receiving empathy
2.  Getting facts and getting my bearings ("What the heck is going on?"
3.  Learning and changing some of my behaviors to make things better

I think most of us go through those stages, and in fact I think we go through them again if things go off the rails or we encounter a new problem.  Veteran members definitely hit snags and come to the board with a venting post, then work through #2 and #3.

Let me talk a bit about why #3 is so cool.  As an example, my wife sometimes says awful things to me.  They can be unfair, cutting, and sometimes just plain wrong or untrue.  My natural response for years was to argue and defend myself.  This fed the fire, and things got worse.  I finally figured out that if I avoided arguing or defending myself, listened without reacting, and quickly acknowledged anything she said that was true or acknowledge the part of it (even a small part) that was true, and I also acknowledged her feelings, things didn't blow up so bad.  It was kind of funny actually, the first couple of times I tried it, she expected me to fight back, I didn't, and she was totally confused   Anyway, that change in my behavior helped make life in our home better.  There are many different ways we can improve things with our behavior.

You can ask why the other person shouldn't be taking responsibility, too, and we could all definitely vent a long while on that   I should also say that focusing on our behavior doesn't mean that things are our fault, but our behavior is what we can control and if we want quick results, that's the first place to focus our efforts.  With the baby on the way, I know you want quick results!

What do you think?  Are there strategies that you've already tried to modify how you're approaching things that have given you some payback?  :)oes what I'm saying make sense, or sound wonky?

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AngelBuds
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 08:58:20 AM »

Thank you all so much!  Your words make sense to me, but he doesn't try a bit so I think this marriage will dissolve since I refuse to be abused esp. now that I am pregnant.  This did begin when I became abled body.  This has been very traumatic for me and has destroyed what progress I made on my abusive history.  So, I am back in PTSD, flashing back, and the whole mess.  I am trying to keep me together and get through this pregnancy alone Since he abuse DID NOT change one bit since I was told we are pregnant, it actually gettn worse.  I believed after we were told that he would be himself again and a wonderful Father, I was wrong.  When he is not raging on like a lunatic, he is lucid and loving, says he loves life SO MUCH with me, everything is perfect.  Ya, well, I've been abused verbally, mentally and emotionally so much these last 11 months I am almost done.  I am just waiting to see him take an action, any action.  He has not.  So, as I spend my days reading and researching all things BPD, pregnancy and how to survive incomeless; he is expecting me to be my normal self again and I am not.  I am sick of forgiving him and he just stabs me in the back.  He's already trying to start things with me to which I ignore nowadays, usually walking away stating "I am not doing this today" or "I will not engage, I will not respond."  Because he gets this sick rush out of me reacting.  He is never sorry, I can cry my eyes out flashing back to my childhood (nightmare) and he has no reply, just happy he just exploded all over me and hen crumbling.  Thats why I asked if it's intentional, because he is the most caring person in the world, until he turns then he can care less what he did, me breaking down, he doesnt care.  He never apoligizes, regrets, remorse, nothing... .just wants to abuse me when he feels like it and forget about ti all and get his hugs and kisses the rest of the time.

So, this started when I got to walking and living again, but it continues as I am now pregnant.  I am 10 weeks along.  This has been going on for 11 months.  And like a lost lover, I want to keep forgiving him so it is killing me to seperate myself from him emotionally but I have to, he is out to kill me it seems.  Thats what it feels like, he has never tried or said anything like that---just feels that way.  I really believe he can make it with someone who does not get PTSD from his actions and words when he is, his other self. 

Thank you for helping me understand this site.  I should start new groups when I am not losing it emotionally, so I don't miss or mess up my posts. 

Why I don't think this will last: he is making no efforts AT ALL (even when I basically gift wrap info for him) to address this or to heal.  He just wants it all to go back to the way it was, before this started, and it used to, until I caught on.  Everytime I forgive (and he never asked for forgiveness) he always goes back into his HULK.  So, it is always just a matter or hours or days before he attacks me again.  I am the strong one (I am not putting him down, just how it has been, he could grow into a stronger person one day) and if I am saying I will not and cannot take his abuse anymore that means it's over unless he begins to work on him.  And since all this has been said to him over and over again for 11 months now, and he still refuses to get help, he basically has been shown I will take his abuses; I say I will not, but I stay with him which means I will keep taking it.  I have not left because I loved him so much, and I believed we can make it... .but as I explained to him several times we cannot make it with knives in eachothers backs. 

Before, I would take all the blame when this started.  I said everything was my responsibility and I will try harder.  It continued.  I them started to catch on, this isnt stress, this isnt anything I am doing, this is HIM.  So, I started to fight back, stick up for me---which turned into blood baths of broken hearts and emotions.  So, after those months, I said I am not going to react and started asking for peace when he flipped for no reason.  That angered him more.  So, nowadays, I walk away.  I do not allow him to trap me anymore.  No more car rides, no more allowing him on my side of bed when he can trap me in here.  As soon as I feel his energy shift, a crack in voice, a crazy word or action, I walk away.

I am working on me.  Since beg. of this year I have made it my passion to become a peaceful warrior.  And I do quite well (I am shocked thats why I mention it, I come from violence so dealing with things meant aggression and violence--but today, I am proud)  I am not proud how I allowed him to crush me and push me back into my torturous childhood flashbacks.  But, that is for em to deal with.  I know that.  I never make others deal or live for me.  He tells me I dont sign him up for the proper help so it's my fault he doesn't try, or read, to seek, or even attempt to better himself.  He just goes insane, blames me, gets abusive, then back to normal and wants hugs and support.  Sorry dude, I am licking my own wounds now. 

Its a marriage on the rocks at best and I have been to myself and not engaging him since his last 'melt down'.  I told him last night I am getting my life back together (with or without him.)  I am in NAMI, I have my 1st psyche appt with this stuff on Tues., I read obsessively, PLUS doing all the preggo stuff alone, incomeless,  while trying to support him in getting back to work, as he says he is ready.  So, basically, he is treating me as his Pops treats his Mom: 2nd class citizen there to take abuse and serve.  Then he flips to man I married and rubs my feet and brings me food.  When he is flipping, he is the OPPOSITE of man I married.  For 5 years, he said his blood boils and he is afraid to be like his Father.  So, I would work with him on breathing, meditation, just talk things through, be calm and supportive.  I made him meals, let him sleep, made sure he got his vitamins, love love love.  And he was wonderful, yes, ups and downs, yes, life happened, yes, I almost died and very disabled for 5 years with him (5 years before him, too), yes... .but I felt that because we conquered together we would be: us against the world!  Yes!  And no.  Not even close.

Just now he said my typing was bothering him after I typed 2 words so I went outside.  He followed me there and tried to berate me about leaving before he could finish his sentence.  I think he was done when he said "You're typing is bothering me."  But he felt the need to try and argue with me and said he'll be in guest house.  I said there's nothing to hear when he says he is irritated, so I left to continue what I am doing.  My last words to myself: If nothing changes then nothing changes; and since I refuse to stay in abuse while he does NOTHING, something is going to change and it's not going to end with me taking this abuse again.

Thanks for letting me vent and offering such encouragement.  I feel he needs someone who does not have abuse in their past and can easily handle being abused.  I barely glued my pieces back together, so I am not the one for him and being around someone as he is is NOT good for me on any level.  I used to laugh and smile, I havent done that around him in weeks.  I dont sit here laughing with myself, so ya.  I am keeping busy with my life, I am rebuilding my life and I dont see a place for him and his whatever he is dealing with since he wont get help.  Hurts he wont even try to get help so we can understand and address it, and heal him.  So, he is choosing this outcome.  And ofcourse I sound like I am leaving him or done with it all, I am, but I also have a heart and deep love for the man I married, so I have contacted IHOT.  It's my last ditch effort.  If IHOT cannot reach him, I am not sacrificing myself, my baby or my life for him anymore.

Is any of this logical or has anyone been this close to closing one door to open another life?  The trust is shattered, the romance is shattered, I can't laugh with him or hug him because I am traumatized.  He doesnt even hear my words when I plead with him to stop, he is traumatizing me.  I guess he doesnt understand the word, because he never says he is sorry and never tried to comfort me.  BUT!  If I am upset or hurt by anything outside of us, he is there.  I think he wants me to be disabled again.  That is sick.  My goal in life was to erase the abusers and lifesuckers from my life.  And I did!  It was a feat.  And then, my man turned into what I erased from my life!  I mean, how twisted is that?  You fight the enemy with all your strength and rebuild your life, just to be sleeping with the enemy... .

Any words or support, feedback, or well, just a kind words at this point is greatly appreciated and thank you for reading this. 

Has anyone had to leave a spouse or anyone because of situations like this?  Has anyone stayed?  I know me, and I cannot stay in a relationship like this at all.  I married him because he was the OPPOSITE of this new guy.  I would stay and fight hard all day and every day, if he would try PLUS stop abusing me.  But since he is doing neither I do not see me staying.  I can't, I will end up on the news and I really dont want that.  I told him 6 months ago to stop abusing me, kicking me around and using me as a scapegoat because I do not know what I will do if he continues and no person deserves this.  Its like he doesnt hear me at all.  I know what happens now:  I bite back hard, then remove myself emotionally, physically and verbally from him, continue on to create MY life without him and his abuse while offering him help and salvation.  As I am walking away, I am giving him enough rope to hang himself or to lasso our relationship back together.  I also told him when we found out I am pregnant I will not tolerate his abuses any longer, within 1 week he was yelling at me in the car.  He yelled for an hour at me because I did not fill out HIS paperwork for HUS meeting.  Make sense?  No, I didnt think so.  I am trapped again in car with him and HULK, and he got grabby with me.  Which he says he does not rmbr.  I wonder what he rmbrs?  Cus so far, he is lying, exaggerating, and basically calling into question every bit about his character and his stories.  The amount of abuse and vile things he says and does, I dnt know who he is! 

I think some of my posts were erased, probably because of graphic words (abuse words ppl can get triggered by if they have been abused) or I posted the same thread.  Do they tell you when they erase your posts?  Or did I just lose my other posts?
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AngelBuds
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 11:36:42 AM »

Ya, I am pretty checked out and moving on with my life.  He asked me to help him write a letter to his HR regarding his work injury case (basically, Casinos are independent nations so they are treating him crappy without pay and basically pushing him out for good since he is unable to work).  So, I pull up a blank email and asked what did he want to say... .and he threw up words for about 5 minutes everything that has happened, minute by minute, for past few days---"ok!  What do you want to say?" 

He grumbled crap so I ignored him and began typing.  I summarized what he threw up at me as professional as I could.  I suggested he get a lawyer to write the letter more 'law like'.  He began "You you! You know how to do this!" and I already know where this goes once he goes like that.  "You got what you get, that's it." and returned to my business.  He grumbled, packed up his folder, grumbled more, and left.  Ya, for 11 months now, he's used to manipulating me into being his whippin girl, or reacting to him.  Nope.  Not no more. 

He made his bed, and I am choosing to move on with my life.  If he wants to be apart of it, he already knows what to do.  I am very open and talkative so anything I type here or write in journals has already been said to his face or written to him.  So, he knows exactly why this is happening and exactly how to resolve it.  Just be a human being and bring my Husband back to me.  Thats all.  I have tried to absorb all this to appease him, I refuse to eat * any longer when he wont even address his very sick self.  He doesnt even think he is wrong, or its wrong to abuse me.  It really is a choice of: be abused for rest of life or be a better person in my own life without him.  When people refuse to address what is killing their loved ones, they are choosing to be without their loved ones.
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 03:27:19 PM »

Hi AngelBuds, you have a lot on your plate, and some important decisions ahead.  I'm not familiar with NAMI meetings.  Are you able to discuss any of this and get feedback from others at the meetings?

Whatever you decide, you're on a journey, and he is the father of your child, so you will need to work with and understand him.  Even if you're eyeing the door, the reading and learning you can do on this site can be helpful in preparing for the road ahead.

Have you had a chance to take a look at any of the lessons specific to BPD that are on this site, and think about how applying them might be helpful?  This one might be worth a read:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

Wentworth
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AngelBuds
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 06:01:46 PM »

Thanks and yes, I have read that link here.  I know I am on a journey and I am bending over backwards to make this work but I refuse to keep getting attacked and abused for no reason.  He has a choice to make, get help or get help.  Yup, one choice to make.  I dnt believe in Divorce so this is KILLING me to even have to think in this way.  But my need to survive along with my baby is stronger than allowing this to continue as so.

I got an excerpt from the book: "I am not Sick, I dont need help."  This was put out by a chapter of NAMI.  NAMI is nationwide, it is amazing and you should check it out, it's free, too.  Excerpt: https://www.nami.org/getattachment/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Related-Conditions/Anosognosia/I_am_not_sick_excerpt.pdf

I got the full book for free off archive.org for 14 days (it's a borrow program, FREE)

I am an avid reader and researcher so I got a ton of books and research even more; but I tell you, no amount of brick and mortar education I excelled in, my own research, my own experiences could prepare me for my one and only Angel, my everything, turning into the only thing I am terrified of, frightened of, attacking me for no reason after 5 years together.  I trust very few, and love even less.  And he was my everything, inside and out, from here to eternity, I trusted him and loved him unconditionally.  I was completely blissful when this began, enjoying my new lease on life, I survived what Drs and others said I would die from, and BAM!  As soon as I am feeling sunshine on my face, I was hit by a MAC truck and the license plate read 'Husband'  I seriously am traumatized and need a ton of help for me now to heal my wounds which I am seeking online, researching and investigating, in person therapy plus NAMI support group.  But he, he is not trying, at all.  He wants to act like his sweet self again, until I get comfy and BAM!  Damn, MAC truck!  Humf.  Nope, no more forgiving just to be stabbed again... .or ever again.  I feel like a little worm on a big hook.

In his sick sick mind, he would be happy to kick me around and go back to normal all days, every days.  The problem is I dont allow him to manipulate me or abuse me anymore so it mucks up his whole plan.  Whatever plan makes sense in his head-I am unsure.  I have no clue who that person is.  I am staying to myself and creating my new life.  Whether he chooses to be apart of it is up to him.


 
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 10:20:31 PM »

I think some of my posts were erased, probably because of graphic words (abuse words ppl can get triggered by if they have been abused) or I posted the same thread.  Do they tell you when they erase your posts?  Or did I just lose my other posts?

Hi AngelBuds,

I looked and the only post missing from your history was a duplicate intro post,  one of them was left.  See here for the guideline on duplicate posts: https://bpdfamily.com/guidelines#editing

Automated software edits swear words. Posts aren't removed due to a few swear words,  but members will see this: ___ in the place of most common swear words.

On-board challenges of moderation are disallowed. You're asking a question, however,  and I thought it good to answer you in thread and also for everyone's benefit.   If members have a question or issue regarding moderation (or anything staff can answer), use this link: https://bpdfamily.com/resolve

And it will get prompt attention from Staff to help members out. 

I hope I answered your questions  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2017, 08:14:28 AM »

Yes, good to know and thanks for the links.  I havent been a new kid on the block for quite awhile, I should have read more about using this site.  I read alot of BPD posts and links from leaders Smiling (click to insert in post)

Well, I really do not see a future in this at all.  I have always been starry eyed, positive, always the cheerleader for my Husband if I am not the leader.  I was disabled for so long, I had to allow him to show me how his leader and survival skills are.  And they are not great

While trying to save his job at the Casino (he was injured on the job and they refuse to pay him while out, casinos have their own laws BTW) I suggested he make a time-line to explain his side of the story.  I suggested that because each week he has been out, he has spoken to, called or texted people at his work including HR.  HR is messing him over by sending him all over our county for Drs signatures.  We are an hour away from any hospital plus no income since he was injured.  When he gets the signatures and paperwork, HR tells him to go somewhere else in Co for other paperwork and other Drs who say they cannot help him.  Its a mess.  I said I would help him create a simple, black & white, timeline to show he has done everything right it's HR who is breaking laws.

Instead, he jotted down notes and told me he did his timeline (lie) and then asked me to write a letter to his HR.  I said a lawyer should do this and if you communicate with them, make sure you have a witness or CC a manager on communications.  I have been through lay-offs before for being injured on the job.  I wrote 2 paragraphs because when I asked what do you want to say, he gave me word salad   

Later in the day, he blamed me for HIM typing the wrong email address he copied from his biz card.  So, I went into the email to fix it and not to be nosey, but a couple sentences caught my eyes.  His notes to HR included "When I asked you for help you made me feel stupid." and "I thought Human Resources was suppose to treat employees as human."  This after I explicitly said DO NOT write out of emotion, ever.  They never ever want to read or see your negative emotions.  He told me he didnt.  The lies just never stop nowadays... .maybe I just always trusted him before?

So basically, he is fired.  He just nailed the last nail in his coffin.  This is the job he has taken months off at a time from.  I have never seen anyone take so much time off work, then say he has perfect attendance or his favorite saying was "XYZ is always calling out every week.  The bosses love me, I always talk to bosses, give them ideas... ." and yet you never get a raise or promotion plus always taking off work?  The times he took off work I said to myself "Well, maybe he needs a break to reset, relax, and be better all around once he takes some time off... ."  Nope.  He never got better and actually in Apr I had planned our CA vacation, our 1st vacation EVER in our lives or together, paid for everything ahead of time, made foods for 2 weeks, all he had to do was show up and drive.  He took a month off for that.

He spent the weeks on the road and sightseeing being a total nightmare, attacking me for things like the car charger is not fast enough, nonsense, then flashing to Mr Nice Guy after assaulting me.  This lasted 2 weeks and I was thoroughly traumatized after 2 weeks of being trapped in car and inside homes with him, flipping from the HULK to Mr Nice Guy. 

I am now catching on that all I do since he began this BPD journey, or whatever it is, is make excuses for him.  I called it cheering him on, but if he never makes it---or even gets on the track---I guess I am making excuses.  I really cannot allow this around our baby.  I made a promise to my unborn baby "I will never allow abuse near you." Since abuse is all I know, I am breaking the cycle.  I did real good for myself by ending abusive relationships and meeting M was perfect!  A strong yet caring plus funny soul.  He is now continuing the abuse cycle.  Before we were married I made it crystal clear my life will never be in the abuse and violence it was.  He agreed, he wanted out of the abusive family dynamics too.  And we did good, we kicked the lifesuckers out, stopped taking abuse from parents, and felt good about it all.  Until this new guy shows up 11 months ago. 

My heart is broken, absolutely.  This stranger is no good.  I will actually be sunken down further if I stay with him and my child exposed to ill will, abuse and everything I said I will not allow in my life, esp not in my childs life.  My Angel is gone.  No idea who this stranger is... .
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« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 01:40:38 PM »

Hi Angelbuds.  You are definitely in a difficult situation, and I wish things could be easier for you.  I admire your determination to make the best life possible for your baby.  How can we best support you?

Wentworth
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 07:18:38 PM »

Hi Wentworth, I am still trying to figure out what I want or need.  It's been all about him, so I really don't know.  So far, it seems venting helps (I write in diarys too), understanding and encouragement that this can be healed with real life stories as examples Smiling (click to insert in post) 

I learned today in my NAMI meeting that I may be in a stage of healing called 'resentment' because when we were reading the definitions of the stages of healing, resentment was starring right at me.  I have distanced myself from him so I can heal myself.  I think caregivers fatigue might have set in, so to deal with that.  There are stages of healing and we each experience it differently, at different times, and sometimes back to the beginning. 

I guess I am using support groups as a sounding board.  Let me know I am not the only one, I am not seeing things... .I really did try to convince myself it was all me, I really did want it to be all me, I wanted to be insane and believe all the abuses he was spewing at me.  I know I can handle that, but sadly, I am not the one.  I think it hurts more being on the outside and the receiver of all the aggression... .but who am I to say. 

I guess I am worried that he will try to manage his disorder for a short time, then just slowly stop.  And when people do that sometimes the disorder comes back bigger and badder... .so I am worried even if I change everything about me to speak with him and he finishes treatments, he'll just relapse.  I used to be his #1 fan, but now, I just am being real based on what I have seen and my gut.

Oh, I called IHOT.  They will make physical contact with him and *hopefully* get him to treatment.  This program is designed to reach those suffering with mental disorders and refuse treatments of any kind.  They will also make physical contact with me to counsel me and follow my recovery.  This is all great news as we are rural and there's not a lot of help in the cities, let alone in the countryside.  Plus, I can't get him to any care or hospital myself, so they come here Smiling (click to insert in post)  I seriously need an island, an umbrella and well, that's all.  Just me and the sea, for a week, nothing but sand, sea, island. 
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 02:35:02 AM »

Hi Angelbuds, nice to see your reply Smiling (click to insert in post)

Hi Wentworth, I am still trying to figure out what I want or need.  It's been all about him, so I really don't know.  So far, it seems venting helps (I write in diarys too), understanding and encouragement that this can be healed with real life stories as examples Smiling (click to insert in post) 
Venting and encouragement can be had here!  As far as the stories go, there are no easy answers, but I have found plenty of encouragement here that things can get better.

I learned today in my NAMI meeting that I may be in a stage of healing called 'resentment' because when we were reading the definitions of the stages of healing, resentment was starring right at me.  I have distanced myself from him so I can heal myself.  I think caregivers fatigue might have set in, so to deal with that.  There are stages of healing and we each experience it differently, at different times, and sometimes back to the beginning. 

Interesting!  So tell me more about resentment, and the other stages.  That's not something I'm familiar with.  If I put that in the context of what we do here, I'd say that resentment is when we're focused on how wrong the other person's behavior is, and we're not yet ready to consider our part in things or own what we can do to improve the situation.

I guess I am using support groups as a sounding board.  Let me know I am not the only one, I am not seeing things... .I really did try to convince myself it was all me, I really did want it to be all me, I wanted to be insane and believe all the abuses he was spewing at me.  I know I can handle that, but sadly, I am not the one.  I think it hurts more being on the outside and the receiver of all the aggression... .but who am I to say. 
Yes, I agree!  One of the most important things about this community for me has been as a "reality check" when crazy things are happening and I'm not sure what normal is anymore.

I really did try to convince myself it was all me, I really did want it to be all me, I wanted to be insane and believe all the abuses he was spewing at me.  I know I can handle that, but sadly, I am not the one.

As you know, it's not all you.  Yes, in a weird way, that would have been good news, because you can fix you.  Having it be a whole lotta the other person can feel terrible because we feel powerless.  But there is good news, that by changing some of our behaviors, we can avoid making things worse and in fact can make them better.  You may not yet be in a place where this sounds like something you're ready for yet.  But it's the most important thing I'll say in this long reply.  It may take a little time and a little more venting   I hope you'll stick with us long enough to get to that point, as we would love to help you make things better!

I think it hurts more being on the outside and the receiver of all the aggression... .but who am I to say. 
I think it sucks all around

I guess I am worried that he will try to manage his disorder for a short time, then just slowly stop.  And when people do that sometimes the disorder comes back bigger and badder... .so I am worried even if I change everything about me to speak with him and he finishes treatments, he'll just relapse.  I used to be his #1 fan, but now, I just am being real based on what I have seen and my gut.
You are right.  Nothing I've said about changing our behaviors means that we ought to be trying to be perfect or do all the work to make things better.  I think many of us (me included) have gone through stages were we tried to do that.  Unsuccessfully. 

Have you read this page on "How to Get Someone with BPD into Therapy?"
https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

Oh, I called IHOT.  They will make physical contact with him and *hopefully* get him to treatment.   
Can you tell us a little bit about IHOT?  I am not familiar with the acronym and wasn't able to figure it out

Can you update us on what's going on now?  Is your husband back in the house?

Wentworth
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 02:04:30 PM »

Thanks to all for support 

Wentworth, thanks for the reply.  I like how you break things down 'cus that makes sense in my head.  You have some very good points.  Well, lets see.  He is sleeping inside now (he was sleeping in the car, I dunno why, there's beds around this property).  I am still refusing rides and closed spaces with him but on Tues he HAD to drive me to my Therapist, but now that I have insurance, that is the end of that.  Wait! my car was just put on 'non-op' cus we can't afford it.  Well, so, I guess in 911s I still have to get a ride w him.

He has been on good behavior and I haven't said too much to him.  Just encouragement about his pending legal case, his ill Father and the future.  I am no longer encouraging OUR future, but I am not saying no.  What happens in the next 6 months will say what our paths will be.  I am focusing on me and baby.  I have offered him all the free resources I can find in our county, plus for me too.  So, I am resting knowing I have given him all I can, the rest is up to him. 

I HIGHLY recommend everyone to contact NAMI, visit the website and even join your local NAMI.  It's all free plus you can become a mbr for a donation as it helps with the free programs, etc. 

https://www.nami.org/ 

Even their toll free numbers are so very helpful!  If they dont have an answer, they find it.  Above and beyond caring, and again, free.  There I have been given SO MANY resources for assistance, education, support and even help/support for those suffering with mental illnesses.  I dunno where I would be today without this organization.  I was dialing 911 and mental hospitals crying for help being told NO before I found them.  Within the 1 month since I started my community Family to Family meetings with NAMI I have gotten a small hold of things in my life, which I know will grow into complete hold of my life while I continue to work the program Smiling (click to insert in post)

Not to mention a big binder of: support phone numbers, support groups, apps for victims, addresses, just SO MUCH info I could never find online, and now it's all in one binder for me.  Each week I add a lesson plan to the binder.  I am in their Family to Family Support group, we meet each week, go over lesson plans, discuss, eat snacks, talk to each other, I mean, WOW!  I am the IT girl when it comes to finding info and research, and they are handing me info I did not find online or by calling 911 or even mental hospitals--none of them helped. 

IHOT (In Home Outreach Team) is just awesome so far, I hope they accept us into their (free) program.
 Trained professionals will physically contact your loved one and try to assist them into treatment of some sort.
 It's not aggressive and there is no penalty for not getting help they offer.  It is a community outreach type program.  If accepted, they will also counsel me throughout the process.  https://www.mhsinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MHS-Mental-Health-IHOT-presentation-NEW.pdf

I wish this online PDF had all the definitions I have in my booklet from NAMI Family to Family Support Group. www.csnnc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/NAMI-PredictableStagesOfEmotionalReactions.pdf
So, from my book, and the stage I seem to be moving in and out of is:

"ANGER/GUILT/RESENTMENT is where we blame the victim insisting that the ill person should 'snap out of it.'  or 'get back to work.'  We feel fed up and do not want to handle it; we distance ourselves from the problem.  At the same time, we harbor tremendous guilt, fearing that it is really OUR fault. Then we compensate and get over-involved with the problem. This ambivalence really drains us. We feel rejecting and too solicitous at the same time."

I just may start a whole new thread as I learn more about NAMI.  Just SO MUCH helpful info.  But it all starts with their website.  And even if you cannot get to a meeting, they can offer you 'tele-counseling'.  I am unsure if this is done by county, state or just be in the USA but I got a name and number I am calling later today.  I am still learning about this great ORG.  Also, check out TARA.

www.tara4BPD.org/

I also have a tons of information specific for San Diego County.  So, checking out NAMI is the best thing I have done so far... .so very grateful.  Will post more once I experience more of everything.  I guess I rave about NAMI so much because (I was desperate #1!) usually when I follow up on services, or organizations, or outreach programs: I get the run around, a firm no, or I am not in the right county, or not the right color, or the programs are non-existent, just papers with some info on them (no real help).  So, NAMI has been so refreshing during a dark period where I was giving up and finding NO resources. 

PS: I will be 11 weeks PG Sat.  I am breathing and thinking positive as miscarriage rates are highest until week 12.  While dealing with this mental crisis, my little star isnt putting nothing on hold :-D  And Mommy is trying to protect  :D  *breathing*  Speaking out here is helping me SO MUCH, we both thank everyone here <3
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2017, 02:57:16 PM »

Hello AngelBuds, it was great to see your post!  It seems as if you are getting some good support, and it shows in the positive energy in your post.  Reading it gave me a boost this morning Smiling (click to insert in post)  And the other change I notice is that you are *teaching*!  This is an awesome development.  I am sure that some members lives will be made better because of the NAMI information you've shared!  I'm also pretty excited for you that you're developing an in-person support network -- that is huge.

Thanks for the info on the "resentment" stage.  Where do you think you are now?  What's the next stage?  Your latest post feels like it has much less of that resentment feeling.  Those feelings are painful to carry, so it made me happy again for the positive energy in your post.

Hey, I was wondering, have you and your husband signed up for any new baby parenting classes?  A new baby can be a pretty intimidating thing for a guy.  We may not have seen examples of men caring for babies, and it can sometimes feel like the mom is biologically and socially set up for a strong bond with the baby, and we are on the outside looking in.  Feeling that barrier, we may withdraw, which can make things worse.  A new baby class might help your husband see how he can participate as a parent, and make things a little less mysterious and frightening.  If they teach things about how to handle the baby, what to do when you get frustrated, etc., you can point to what they taught when necessary, rather than him thinking that you're just making it up to be hard on him.

One of the things I decided early on is that since I couldn't breast feed, I was going to have to change as many dirty diapers as I could to stay involved in the care of the baby.  We're not socialized to think this is a guy's task, but dealing with gross stuff is a pretty manly task, and a poopy diaper is something that can be handled with grim determination and twenty or thirty diaper wipes.  My wife thinks I'm overly dramatic about this, and by baby #2, she could change a poopy diaper on the dashboard of the car one-handed (I am not exaggerating).  But men need to feel useful, and if you can avoid letting him know that you can do it one-handed, and tell him how much it would help you if he dealt with the gross stuff, it will help him feel competent and included in the baby's care.  Can you think of other ways to involve him?  Painting a room?  Assembling a crib?  It's easy for anyone to become overwhelmed with the list of things to do before the baby arrives (I think we finished about 10% of our list  but if you can think of a couple of ways to involve him, it could be helpful.

Wentworth
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2017, 09:14:00 PM »

Hey hey Wentworth, thanks for the reply.  I went to another NAMI sponsered community meeting today.  It was actually for people dealing with their own mental disorders.  The flyer was not specific about that part so when I spoke of why I was there, I was a little out of place.  I am dealing with my mental issues yes, but I am seeking help how to HANDLE those with something as serious as BPD.  I ended up talking in past tense of the days when I was severally emotionally disturbed.  I gave pointers, examples, exercises, just healthy things to do that I did for free that released me from my demons.  I learned nothing of being in an intense relationship with another who is ill or how to cope.  But!  2 people referred to what I said while adding their own insights plus the teacher came outside and thanked me for participating, kinda wondering how I knew stuff and I replied "All 1st hand experiences."  Ya, I may not have the greatest back story but it sure does make me one unique person!  Can be colorful :P  And (funny you mention the teacher part) teaching, helping and sharing are my nature.  I believe experience out weighs books---and I am an avid reader, who believes that.  Experience makes great teachers <3

I hear you on making him welcome.  It's complicated to say the least.  He told me how he raised his nieces so once we got the news, I was relieved he would be by my side.  It has been a nightmare.  I cried alone for a week.  Saw he was absent as usual, and began plugging away at getting help anywhere I can for me and my baby.  I dove into trying to help him, me and us.  He continued to rage out at me for nothing.  And, he basically no longer has a camel's back to break at this point, that's how beyond hurt I am, feel betrayed.

The only calm I have had is this last week.  And he spends his days outside, walking the homestead, piddling around.  I am inside doing everything I can online.  I am alone in this.  I see nothing of the person he said he was with his nieces.  He told me he raised and loved and basically was their Father.  Which is another weird thing, for another outrageous story.  Which scorned me a month ago since he was NOTHING close to what he proclaimed he once was.  Basically I said so far the worst thing about being pregnant is him (truth, and this PG has been physically hard for me, 1st time too!) and he should go be with his real family since he was a Father to them.  Ya, I mentioned scorned part right.  He has successfully removed himself from this marriage and life.  His only obsession these days is making money somehow.  So far, nothing.

It is very sickening to see and watch someone you once loved to death act completely opposite of himself.  I say once, because it protects my fragile state and I will never refer to this as someone I currently love.  Is that odd or make sense?

I texted him today, very neutral, I hope he is not blaming baby for my current state around him.  Since he has a way of twisting reality up now, I want him to be crystal that I am the way I am today because of how WE have been the last 11 months.  I did say we.  I said I am working on my healing and moving forward.  'I hope you figure it out.'  He has no concept of cause and effect.  None.  No consciousness of consequences.  The more I express myself, the more I think I answer my own questions of will we make it.  The more I say to him about healing, coping, and trying to suggest he look something up or reach out for help, nothing changes-he just never tries.  Its all my fault.  He just wants it all to be as it was without working on anything.  So basically, he is content abusing me and flashing back to his old self once his rage is over... .and I am suppose to just 'allow it.'  No clue how to make sense of it... .

So while I agree 1001% the Father is to be apart of this, he has removed himself completely as I refuse to be abused.     
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 12:10:58 AM »

The dominant emotional state of The Waif is life's too hard.  Awaiting rescue that never comes,  to The Waif's satisfaction,  fleeing in order to survive feels good.  What's worked in the past works now.

There certainly is a disconnect between how he said he was with his nieces and how he is behaving now.  One of the core feelings of a pwBPD  (person with BPD) is shame. Basically, "I'm a bad person undeserving of love." Others might chime in with other views of shame. 

As a father myself,  I'm trying to put myself in his shoes.  I think his behaviors may telegraph fear of failure as a father ("it's too hard to deal with emotionally so I'll just flee and detach". If this fear is true,  I wonder if there is an opening where you could validate this.  PwBPD feel the same emotions that we do,  yet turned up to 11, and their emotions are often uncontrollable. 
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 06:15:03 PM »

Hi Turkish, that is a keen observation, but I was not pregnant 11 months ago when this started.  I have never been PG nor has he been with a girl PG (except his sister) but he did tell me he has all the experience from being close to PGs when he was younger (he then said it was 1 lady friend of his brothers he spoke to at a party, once I pressed him REAL HARD about these other PGs he knew) and said he raised his nieces.  Ya, fishy story now today when I think back on it.  Actually nothing makes sense anymore, and I have no clue who my Husband is.  Once a person lies to me, I begin to analyze every word they ever said.  But, in mental disorders, I guess we are not suppose to do that... .I dunno... .

I am 11 weeks PG just today and this began 11 months ago.  My observation is once I was able to walk (I was living and no longer dying), he became fearful I would walk away... .BPDs are known for that I am learning.  Its a slow learning process for me, but each day, is a new day.
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