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Author Topic: Death by instalments  (Read 568 times)
snowglobe
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« on: September 14, 2017, 07:13:19 AM »

In the past 20 years Canadian law Society changed its look on self defence. In the cases of severe abuse, it been recognized that after a prolonged period of abuse and death threats people sometimes snap not during the time when actual abuse takes place. At times there is a delay in reaction time and the victim strikes back at the abuser while they are defenceless. The reason why I bring this up, is that I often feel that my uBPDh is destroying our relationships in the same manner, "by instalments". These episodes leave me confused,'perplexed, depressed, anxious and angry. There isn't any true intimacy in our relationships. How can I be open, vulnerable with someone who leaves to another room to avoid sleeping next to me, who doesn't asknoledge my presence in the room, who doesn't speak to me, and when does looks past or trough me, as if I'm transparent. I feel like I'm standing behind the double mirror, the only reflection he has in front of him is himself. At times like this I'm not effectively parenting, my gastrointestinal issues flare up, I'm left looking for a human connection much the same way a stray dog is looking for a bone. Starting new relationships is frightening although I very much long for it. When I make acquaintances with men majority of them make a pass at me. This aspect puzzled me for a while, as I wasn't looking for a "hook up" only some interaction. One of them explained to me, that I have this "look in my eyes"?. I'm extra careful as to what kind of image I send to the outside world. I take care of my appearance, dress very well, try to interact with people by the book. That is on the surface, on the inside there is a child with a lot of trauma and an overwhelming need to belong... .I can't imagine leaving these relationships, but in case that one of these times he does, what will be left of "me" after these "instalments"?
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       “Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Tattered Heart
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2017, 08:09:27 AM »

Hi Dkandy,

You sound so sad and lonely. I"m sorry that you are going through this. I think the loneliness is one of the hardest aspects of living with someone with BPD.

It sounds like you may be giving your H a lot of control of your emotions. I know that it's hard not to. It's difficult to not feel rejected when he doesn't sleep next to you. It's painful to have him ignore you. I get it. Ultimately though, you are responsible for how you feel. How can you start taking back your emotions from his behavior?

Making new friends can be scary. You don't know if you'll be accepted or if they will like you. But I think having healthy girlfriends is important. Are there any women in your life right now that you could just invite to lunch or coffee? Not to share all the things that are going on in your life. THat comes after you've known them awhile and are comfortable with them. But just go have some "girl time". I'd like to challenge you to make the first step and ask her to hang out.
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Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life Proverbs 13:12

snowglobe
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2017, 08:52:41 AM »

@Tatteredheart, thank you for reading my post. He has a lot of weight when it comes to my self esteem and emotions. We became a couple when I was 17 and he was 27, over 16 years ago... .I was raised by a single BPD/histrionic mother, my parents got divorced when I was 9 yo. My bio dad, narsisictic and self focused checked out from all the drama that had to do with my mother. That unfortunately included me, I was always "stupid like my mother, set in a path of repeating the same cycle of devorcee women that ran on my maternal side". I grew up without a father figure present. So when my uBPDh came into picture, I grabbed on to him for my dear life. I can honestly say that he shaped me in so many ways, most of them amazing things. Recognized my potential and invested emotionally and otherwise into my development. He is simultaneously the only person who can reach through my bulletproof facade without trying. He knows all the weak spots, insecurities and fears. I would greatly apreciate on the advice or a link on how to self soothe in the times of crisis. Even with psych major and a lot of theoretical knowledge I'm lost and hopeless when it comes to our dynamics.
I do have a few girlfriends that I confine in, but it feels like a bandage when I'm trying to push through the freezer zones that he sets out for me. I know the symptoms of depression first hand, yet when he slowly begging to shun me away, I can't help but fall into the rabbit hole. All of the therapists I saw in the past are waiting for some kind of "action" on my part once they establish my husband's "BPD hell". I know their job is to look after my best interests and being with him is like two addicts being in a relationships. The bond is so tight and disfunctional that it leaves both of us chocking for air. I would love to leave somewhere south for a week or so. One time in 16 years, time to be alone, to think and just breathe. But I can't; financially I'm completely dependent on him, can't leave my kids, he isn't able to care for them, and finally my parents who live in with us would get a full view at Dante's 7 circles. I sometimes wonder, if I'm so bad, why doesn't he just leave? And when he tries to leave I cling to his feet and beg him to stay. Not only because of our kids, I beg him to stay for me. The lines are so blurred, loosing him is like watching my dad walking out of my life
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       “Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 03:59:14 PM »

Hello Snowglobe, thank you for explaining more of your background, it helps us to get to know your situation better (I know I've said this before, but with each post it is true).  I am so sorry your heart aches for more human connection.

You really have done your homework on so many fronts.  You know intellectually how your mother and father not being there for you set you up for where you are now, but I understand that intellectual knowledge doesn't always help us!

You mention how much power your husband has over how you feel about yourself.  He is defining your entire reality -- yourself, your finances, your home, etc.  I am not trained in psychology as you are, so I'll say what I'm thinking and rely that you can be a sophisticated consumer and tell me if I'm full of baloney   It seems like your central challenge is building your own sense of confidence -- confidence in your worth as a human being, in your lovability, in your attractiveness along whatever dimensions matter to you, in your identity as an unique individual not defined wholly by an external relationship, etc.

The challenge is to go back and fill in the gaps left by your upbringing, to build yourself brick by brick.  It will take a long time, but I'm also confident that someone with your intelligence, character, and determination can make some good progress without having to wait too long.  Once you build your strength and cannot become so easily devastated by a verbal assault (you don't have to attain invincibility, just get to a better place than you are now), it will be easier to see yourself as someone who has a right to set boundaries and believe that you can be successful.

OK, a couple of coping thoughts.  I think you talked about self soothing, and how not to fall apart when he is raging at you.  Taking a time out is nice, if you can swing it, but it may not be possible. 

One technique I heard about is to imagine a wheel that is rotating and each time it rotates around you see an affirming message printed on it, like "I am a good person," "I am lovable," etc.  This sounds completely hokey, but I've tried it and it is somewhat helpful.

Make sure you take deep full breaths.  I keep catching myself forgetting this, and it helps.  It is so easy to forget to breath, and this builds stress.

You can use imagery to see pictures of a "happy place."  For me, I use my favorite, beautiful travel destination.  This can be a big help, but is a little dangerous, because it can lead to "checking out" which also may be detected by your spouse.  Sometimes it is necessary, though.

The last, and favorite technique of mine when I'm feeling beaten down and am receiving a withering blast of contempt and derision from my wife, is to imagine 4-5 characters from this board standing behind me silently.  Not just one -- a handful of souls a few steps back, arrayed behind me.  My wife cannot see them, but I have people.  So do you.  Do your kids read Harry Potter?  I think this is a little like conjuring a petronus.  High octane magic, suitable for the worst situations.  Try it and let us know if it works Smiling (click to insert in post)

I liked TH's suggestion to spend time with girlfriends.  Yes, they'll be a fraction as powerful as your husband.  Don't expect any one thing to tilt the balance here.  You are weaving a tapestry of your identity, one thread at a time, to make a strong fabric (I've hit my metaphor limit for the day, and will stop, please forgive me   What makes you feel strong and competent?  One thing I've observed is your help for people on these boards through your replies.  You are good at it.   Your link the the Karpman Drama Triangle was very helpful to me.

Does this seem like a good project, to build yourself?  What things can you think of that might be good things to do to start building?
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snowglobe
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 10:33:18 PM »

@Wentworths, I've reread all of my posts and your replies twice. You've accurately hit every point, I'm in awe how insightful you are just by paying attention. I'm very much struggling with my identity, it never had a chance to develop and mature. My mother physically punished me for having "a boyfriend" (read no physical intimacy till marriage
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       “Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 01:17:55 AM »

Phew, I'm glad it rang true.  Anytime I write that long of a post, I worry a bit that I might be going off the rails

No rush, but when you get around to it, I asked a couple of questions that could keep the conversation going.

I admire you for having the courage to talk about all of this stuff.  It is not easy.

Wentworth
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 05:34:49 PM »

Hi Snowglobe, I'm working to make sure I've read everything on this site about boundaries, and in one of the main threads discussing boundaries, I came across the following quote:

How to Develop Boundaries

An important first step in developing healthy value boundaries is to get acquainted with, and take ownership, of your true self.  This is essential before healthy values can be lived.  As adults, we are responsible for the decisions we make in life.  We have freedom to respond, to make choices, and to limit the way others' behavior affects us.  As a "free agent",  we can take responsibility for our freedom by setting boundaries, or borders, between ourselves and those around us.    Some people refuse to set boundaries because they see them as selfish.  Others actually use them to be selfish.  Both are wrong.  Boundaries are about self-control.

It's in this thread, which contains a discussion by many distinguished members about boundaries:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.10

That first sentence made me think about what we were discussing about identity.

There are many insights in that thread.  Another insight is about calculating costs.  What does it cost to enforce the boundary?  What does it cost to not enforce the boundary?  I am coming to think that for me, not having a boundary around receiving ridicule and other disrespectful speech has a cost that I can no longer accept. 
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 06:48:44 AM »

Hi Snowglobe, My heart aches for you! I came into my situation with self-esteem, but whew, it really gets run into the ground at times! I have some time to myself for a few days, but even when we are far away these controlling types seem to find a way to hold their grip and never quite let us feel freedom. Only in my thoughts can I be free and even then... .he tries to crawl inside those too. It is insidious.

I found myself doing exactly what you said the other day, was it just yesterday? Clinging to his leg to get him to stay, in fear of him making more drama and unnecessary problems. Sigh. I will never do that again. That was one time too many for me. I wanted to prevent him from running off and acting crazier. He was completely out of his head and trying to control my computer access. Woke me up out of a sound sleep to do so. He looked like a madman. I tried to resist and when I would not give him what he wanted and he refused to calm down it got really crazy. Eventually he calmed down and then slept the entire day. It is hard to explain concisely, but I made it through another day of hell. Today I feel much better thank goodness. I was so low and depressed yesterday. This man seems determined to break me, but I must not take it personally so help me... .

He is crushing the life out of me with his "love". It really is sad. For him. I know what being in a normal healthy relationship is. He's gotten more than his fair share of chances... .and then I moved into the realization that this is a forever thing, this horrible illness.  He will only drive me further towards being a monk at the rate he is going, but I will be damned if I let him and his illness ruin the cool/nice person I am. Smiling (click to insert in post)  

I am here with you. I am in this situation for now, maybe not forever but for now, and you are not alone. That is all I have to offer. A big smile and a big hug!  
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Walk on a rainbow trail, walk on a trail of song, and all about you will be beauty. There is a way out of every dark mist, over a rainbow trail. - Navajo Song
snowglobe
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »

@Wentworths and @Pearlsw thank you so much for continued support, at this point in my life this is the only place where I can authentically share my daily struggles. Most people, once they know a little more of the setuation tell me to run for the hills and save myself. I've lost a lot of friends, who I'm sure meant well and wanted me to get on with my life and stop saving my uBPDh.
@Wentworths I want to pick your brain a bit. My uBPDh when dispregulated has been leaving our bedroom to sleep on the couch. Needless to say, at first I've been going after him, begging for him to come back, sleepless nights, him rejecting me, getting satisfaction and still not coming back. It's like he is expecting some kind of emotional sacrifice with tears, pleading, offering him my life, love and Immortal soul. Only to reject me and sleep on the uncomfortable couch to be angry and grumpy the next day. The amount of effort on my part during these moments are enormous. It's like I'm proving to him that I'm worthy to be with, courting and saducing him simulateneously. If in the future, I decided to ever, I put that much effort into new relationships, "girlfriend of the year" trophy would be mine for sure. How do I bring him back to our bedroom without him taking a chunk of my flesh?
To @Pearlsw, I'm very greatful for your encouragement, I've been practicing several things lately, perhaps it would help you as well... .
1. Imagining @Bluesbrothers and several other characters here quietly shaking their heads when I'm about to explode and start Jadying. Also telling me" nobody likes doormats". It honestly works, these silent wintensses to our private fights are like the walls that can hear and see everything. Somehow it's helping me to keep accountability for my actions
2. I try to imagine him as a little boy, and imagine the age that his emotional development regressed or became retarded. It's easier to deal with a 6 yo tantruming then a grown a$$ man.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2017, 08:03:14 PM »

Hi Snowglobe, hey, you picked up on something I hadn't mentioned but I do, too -- using images of our board friends to make ourselves accountable.  There have been a few times recently when I'm losing patience with my wife, getting pulled to the "victim" corner of the triangle, or some other "non" failing, and I think about all you guys and ask myself, if I had to tell the full story of what was happening on the board the next day, would I be living up to the best examples set by some of my peers here?

OK, to your question, let me admit up front that I'm not an expert.  And you are pretty sophisticated, so I probably won't tell you anything you couldn't tell me if the roles were reversed! If pwBPD are afraid of abandonment and loss of control, how amazing that payoff must be that you're giving him when he pushes *you* away and you beg him to come back.  Clearly he is in control and clearly you are not going to abandon him.  This seems a little similar to my wife's divorce threats.  For years, I've been terrified of her divorcing me.  A big factor was that as a dad, I was worried about losing my kids.  We all have our reasons to be scared to leave.  The pwBPD can play on these fears to meet their own needs for security.

I have not totally figured out the divorce threats -- it is still a big problem -- but things got better when I came to peace with the fact that I couldn't control her.  Maybe she would divorce me, but probably not.  Recently, when she threatened, following the advice on this board, I said, "I want nothing in the world more than to make things work with you.  I have never wanted a divorce.  But you are strong and I know you can make it without me, and if that is what you want, you are obviously free to do that, and you know who my lawyer is."

Could you use a variant of that, like, "I love you more than ____.  Please do not leave, I want you here beside me more than anything.  If you need to go now, OK, but if you have trouble sleeping on the couch and I find myself waking up to you it would make me so happy."  Pour on the love and validation, but do not chase.  Do not let the threat have power over you.  Does this approach seem worth trying in your situation?  It can be frightening to change strong patterns but I know you can do it!

Wentworth
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snowglobe
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2017, 09:25:05 PM »

@Wentworths, reading your posts is making me feel sane, strangely. I often find myself describing my circumstances only to see a sympathetic nod, but unless you live it day in and day out, you can't relate. All of the therapists that I've tried over the years, close to 10, have been unhelpful in terms of setting the boundaries and/or changing dynamics. I'm not sure if you have a point of reference, but psychology mostly focused on abnormal and clinical and doesn't take into consideration social circumstances such as me being back to school, full financial dependence, child with disability, being accustomed to certain lifestyle not just for me, but for kids mostly. So I completely understand what you mean by not wanting to "loose your kids". For me it's not completely the fear of loosing a physical custody, it's the aftermath and assassination of my character that will likely follow. When you've mentioned that the fear subsided when you came to terms with loosing her, I felt familiar ping. For us it comes in waves and much too familiar cycle, sometimes once a year, sometimes several times a year. He splits on me, I get confused, start trying to patch up the things, bend myself backwards trying to win his affection and love back, he devalues and belittles me, telling me to go "find a boyfriend to take care of me", during these days, sometimes weeks we are not intimate, as he pushes me away. During the second stage I get angry and hurt, so I push back like a snapping turtle. I don't seek his companionship, I don't make eye contact, I carry on for my kids as if he isn't there. It's then he starts threatening me with divorce and I start to crumble. I loose my focus and will to do anything, get depressed and all I want to do is sleep and cry. After a few days we come to stage number three, when I accept that divorce is in the cards for us and start making plans for the future to protect the kids and brace myself for the impact. I start reaching out to people, make plans for employment, prepare the rest of the family for transition. Our fourth and final stage for the past 8 years is him getting high on stimulants and begging me to forgive him. Pleading that I'm a "saint woman", that he really "feels like that at that moment", but he secretly loves me and can't imagine being with anyone else. I listen to his b$&()it, its then I get slightly validated, sadly. But you can imagine, you can't have a heart to heart conversation with someone who is high as a kite. Our lives go back to equilibrium from one week to 3-4 months, and then cycle repeats itself. One of the things that I struggle with and tried to get help from the therapists is that I feel that there is an expiration sticker attached to me. It's only a matter of time when he will move from the threats to taking the action, kind of like a loaded gun analogy. Will he regret loosing me? Most certainly, just like a heavy smoking, or occasional drug use I provide a safe and comfortable environment for him. However I decided for myself that if I had to go through the separation, it would only take place once for the sake of the kids. They deserve to live in a safe and predictable environment.
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 11:46:18 AM »

Hi Snowglobe and Blues Bro and all! Thanks for these posts. I have noticed I am so overwhelmed lately, he's been up and down a lot more and I'm feeling totally worn out... .I notice that this is when my responses are not as disciplined and on mark as I'd like them to be. I think honestly, part of what people with these folks with emotional dysregulation issues are trying to do is get an emotional reaction from us. We are not emotional enough for them so they want to drive us a bit over the edge. They want us to show emotion the way they do. I don't want that. I want to be in control of my emotions so I don't like being baited into this kind of stuff. I am afraid lately about the impact of all this on me so it has been coloring my responses a bit. I have had some hours to myself where I could not be reached - time on a plane - and was able to let my body's own now overly stimulated adrenaline glands and have a much needed rest from all this heightened drama and emotion he brings.

I like this visualization and am going to work on this. I need to give myself clearer ideas of what you would all be saying in my ears to help me when I feel I am facing this stuff alone. I need little mantras and that sense of holding onto something. At times it feels like he's even taking reality from me. I thank you all so much for not letting me be alone in this.

I am so with you Snowglobe, I want to tell people what is going on, but people would just tell me to run and I don't want that. I don't have the energy, after all this, to educate others about it and get them to... .just be supportive and not give me yet another set of problems. I also don't want to sign on for more of life as it is. I do all I can, but... .there are so many limitations. Without a majorly drastic change... .moving countries, being very poor and dependent on others for 6 mo's -1 year or more as I rebuilt my life... .I just can't face it. I am afraid that I would end up extremely depressed. I hate breakups... .which is why it really is a cruel twist of fate that I ended up with a person who threatens them. No one else I knew ever did this. I couldn't even have imagined this level of cruelty and psychological devastation in human interactions.

He is trying to cut down though. But he really does not know how to entirely give up that tool. For the love of all that is sacred in this world, I will never understand for the life of me... .how someone could threaten break ups like this. It really is one of most insane weapons I have ever encountered. So, so damaging. You are right about the loaded gun analogy. This breakup stuff is like having a gun to your head and under those circumstances it is very hard to operate normally in any sense of the word. Sigh. It forces you to live on two tracks... .and you can't live like that. It is like torture, destabilizes reality, feels paralyzing at times. It is such an unbelievable weapon to use on another person. I'd rather lose a limb than hear one more break up threat.

Anyway... .take care, take care!

We are here. We are here. Many hugs!
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Walk on a rainbow trail, walk on a trail of song, and all about you will be beauty. There is a way out of every dark mist, over a rainbow trail. - Navajo Song
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 11:55:17 AM »

Expiration sticker. Yes. I felt like a piece of garbage that gets tossed to the curb and then at some point he comes out, picks it up, polishes it up a bit and brings it back inside and acts like it never happened and doesn't want me to mention it and make him feel bad about it in any way. It is all totally at his whim. I've felt like somone was "playing God" with my life. Turning me off and on like a light switch. Totally dehumanizing. It is not your imagination. This kind of thing is horrible. It is a corner of hell.

Yet, we manage to find a bit of hope and try to find our way out of the dynamic or make it more bearable. We have good days and horrible ones. We have each other!
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Walk on a rainbow trail, walk on a trail of song, and all about you will be beauty. There is a way out of every dark mist, over a rainbow trail. - Navajo Song
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 01:11:03 AM »

Your post is still in my thoughts. Your title ":)eath by Installments" really strikes a cord with me!

You wrote, "These episodes leave me confused,'perplexed, depressed, anxious and angry. There isn't any true intimacy in our relationships. How can I be open, vulnerable with someone who leaves to another room to avoid sleeping next to me, who doesn't aknowledge my presence in the room, who doesn't speak to me, and when does looks past or trough me, as if I'm transparent. I feel like I'm standing behind the double mirror, the only reflection he has in front of him is himself."

I am in the same boat with you so perhaps we can work together to find a way to hold onto our balance in the midst of this stuff. Smiling (click to insert in post) I know that reading here has cut down on my confusion. I see it as an illness and I am even so bold to talk to him about it as such. I know a lot of advice here would say otherwise, but I just make a different choice with this. I try not to overdo it, but I do just label it for what it is. I call it an emotional dysregulation issue. He seems to recognize his emotions are particularly heightened and that this causes problems for him, though at times he tries to say he was never like this before he met me. I don't believe that for a second given other stories I've heard and because this was present in his personality immediately when we met, I just didn't recognize it as such. I don't give him the chance to define reality for me on this. I just don't. I have eyes and ears and I know in my bones this is not "normal."  I just wasn't sure how much I should attribute to different cultures, life stresses that would make it hard for anyone, or an actual mental illness. It is all of these combined.

I am still working a lot with anxiety and anger. My anger is very internalized. I do not express it outwardly very often. I think I need to reinstate meditation practice in my daily life. I have some physical injuries that make it a bit hard, but really, you can just sit in a chair and meditate too so there is a way even with this. I am trying to sort out what is real and not real and then just put it all aside in terms of his attempts to monitor and control my behavior and even thoughts. Focusing on it too much would just cause me more anxiety so I try to let go as much as possible so he cannot have such a grip over me.

As bad as the options are, I do have options in life. They seem insurmountable at times, or not worth the effort... .I don't know how many more times I can reinvent my life without the financial resources to do so, and associated humiliation, and risk of depression/loss of hope, but I am going to take my time and further mentally prepare for this, slowly and step by step. It is hard because I don't feel comfortable writing a journal. If he saw/heard me typing too much he'd find a way to break into my computer again just so he could read it I am sure. Anytime he hears me typing he wants to know what I am writing and I am always walking on eggshells about it. But I have been reading about a jailed writer recently who is not allowed to write and he says that he deals with this by spending a lot of time organizing the thoughts in his head. It gave me some inspiration to keep fighting for my life. I sometimes also talk to myself out loud when I am totally alone (and outside) so I can get some of the things bottled up inside me out a bit.

I know what you mean about this double mirror too. I feel sometimes like I am dealing with the most selfish/self-centered person I've ever met. To deal with this I try to give positive reinforcement when he is kind, generous, helpful, or makes a sacrifice in any way no matter how small.

It is hard. We are basically in an emotional world created by someone else's illness. It is, I tell you, one of the worst things I can imagine experiencing in terms of illnesses. One of my parent's had terminal cancer and I can say that the 7 years of that vs. the 7 years of this... .man, it makes the cancer seem "relatively easy" by comparison. I'd rather relive those 7 tragic years than these 7 years of this illness. That was tragic and sad and I had no support then either, but... .this is a mindf---. It is incredibly hard for me to wrap my mind around someone who "loves me" treating me this way... .to see him turn as much of the good in life into bad. I don't get it. I read and read and read and I get it on paper but it is truly mind-bending stuff when it is actually happening to you. I hold onto reality like a life raft in a giant sea of someone else's unpredictable emotions.

I think the most I may get in life is just feeling good about trying to be the best person I can be under incredibly difficult circumstances. And I don't want to end up hating myself or my life so those are other goals.

I hope you do have a chance to make more outside contacts than I do! I hope that having some human contact can help make a difference for you, bringing some satisfaction and human connection to your life. Smiling (click to insert in post)

Please remember you are not worthless or disposable no matter what he says or does! They are trying to make us feel their emotional pain, but we don't have to take all of it on. I know, it is hard not to be incredibly hurt by all this, we are being hurt. But letting go of it and not being crushed by it requires our active attention. It is a skill we must practice. Depersonalize, depersonalize, depersonalize. I saw a movie yesterday about a woman with Alzheimer's and she is only lucid and her regular self in short episodes. The other main character is trying to talk her back to reality, even though it only lasts for short periods. I feel like I do a lot of this calming and bringing him back to reality - to bring him back towards being the person I fell in love with instead of this "evil monster" I have sometimes have had to deal with. It is hard because both sides seem genuine to me at times, and at others neither side seems real. I feel like I am in a relationship with an illness more than a person sometimes. But he is human and mental illness is just so, so difficult. I can just take it a day or an hour at a time sometimes, ya know? When someone talks to us this way, threatens breakups it is hard to know what life we are living, how to plan or how to exist. So, I feel the pain of your uncertainty and fears acutely. I work with maintaining a strong sense of my own solidity and stability in the midst of this so I have that foundation in life to hold onto, but it is not easy. At times I wonder... .it has destroyed me in ways I am still grappling with but I am always trying to rebuild myself in any small way I can. I agree so much! It is so hard to be open and vulnerable with someone who uses those as tools later to attack us with.

I have had some good times recently, followed by more bad. I can only say it is a process. It will never be solved, and never be easy. It will be extremely hard at times even with the best communication tools and patience.  My life feels fractured and in boxes... .pieces of me are in separate boxes to save and hold onto myself. But at least we understand each other a bit and have this supportive space to reflect back reality to us - to provide the little lifts in life to carry us through our roughest days and challenge us to make changes on our better ones when we are stronger and have more capacity, aren't just fighting for our existence. Take care! Thinking of you and wishing you happiness! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2017, 11:26:42 AM »

Good day to you all,
Many of you have seen my previous posts. I need an advice in my current setuation on how to proceed. Presently, my parents reside with us to provide caregiving to my children. Although they are s9 and d14 aren’t babies anymore, S9 has Autism and requires extra support. They are also buffing away my uBPDh verbal attacks and try to smooth down extraneous stressors so he could “be stable for his family”.

With that said, my dad had to take a month long trip, so it’s just my mom with us. This added extra stress plus new transition for my uBPDh, he has to take out the trash and carepool the kids, something he never normally does. For the most part he is content with my parents living with us, he hates household chores, which has been eliminated from cleaning to minor house fixer piers. My parents also help us coparent and nurture the kids, this leaving more time for nurturing him, which he constantly demands.  

Things were on a shaky ground as soon as my dad left. It all came crushing down yesterday. He was disregulated from the beginning, when I tried to call him at work he ignored my calls. The little voice in my head said that the rejection stage started. He came home visibly irritated and started berating me for my cooking, and snapping here and there. I went upstairs to our bedroom to give myself some space to breathe and come down. He called for me from the first floor, when I came he started telling me “Make sure no one talks to me today and tomorrow f-Ing f... .f... .f... .“ my mom was standing there in the kitchen witnessing him verbally abusing me with no reason for it” she politely asked him to stop doing it in front of her, and instead suggested to take it to our bedroom so she and the kids would be witnessing it”. He replied that he is in his own house, and it’s her problem that due to  her health problems she can’t take to witness her child being yelled at.

He went nc all night occasionally interacting with kids. When I approached him at night, tried to massage him to soothe him and make him feel less threatened, he told me that he wants my parents out. He said he would help them financially, whatever that means to be out ASAP.

2 things now- I’m in university trying to finish my degree, I can’t do it without the help of my parents. He isn’t giving me any money to hire extra help, and he doesn’t want to do anything regarding house and the kids.
Second, I’m in all honesty afraid of him, physically. Over the course of our relationships he physically abused me maybe 10 times. One particular Escaladed from a verbal argument over construction costs, he punched and kicked me with so much anger and aggression I will never forget that.

I need help from you fellow members, how can I divert this catastrophy long enough to get on my two feet?
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2017, 05:10:28 PM »

You're in a tough spot, Snowglobe.

I'm most concerned that you're worried about your physical safety. It's important to put your Safety First. Do you have a safety plan in place? A staff member can help you find a number for someone to talk to about creating a safety plan if you don't already have one.

How is your husband's mood now?

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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2017, 05:33:16 PM »

You're in a tough spot, Snowglobe.

I'm most concerned that you're worried about your physical safety. It's important to put your Safety First. Do you have a safety plan in place? A staff member can help you find a number for someone to talk to about creating a safety plan if you don't already have one.

How is your husband's mood now?

P.F.
I mentioned in my previous posts, I don’t have a safety plan, in fact I have no access to the money, other then what he gives for a monthly expenses and house maintenance. Mostly it’s mw stretching it thin to meet all the needs. I have currently no way of saving, as I’m obtaining my degree and taking care of the kids and the house. He isn’t partaking in any of the family chores or responsibilities other then paying for food, shelter, cars and kids activities. Occasionally, he would go out and purchase something “nice” a luxury purchase to make up for his behaviour. That ship has sunk a long time ago. I wouldn’t even know where to start preparing for the worst. Just like night he was saying “get away from me (when I was trying to placate him) you are lucky I’m not yelling or insulting you, because S9 was co-sleeping upon his request. Otherwise “ I would punch you” . From what I know about psychology, these threats seldomly go away. It appears that he is so disregulated that the only outlet for him is to physically hurt me and then reject me. As I’m typing this, I’m horrified that even after he physically assaults me and verbally harasses me, I crawl to him asking for forgiveness?. For what?. ... .There must be something fundamentally wrong with me for allowing him to do this.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2017, 06:25:18 PM »

Hi Snowglobe, I am so sorry to hear this! This is so worrying! When will your dad be back? Will that make a difference? Is your mom in danger too as you are? Is there a chance for you and your parents to work together on this? 
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2017, 08:14:16 PM »

Hi Snowglobe, I am so sorry to hear this! This is so worrying! When will your dad be back? Will that make a difference? Is your mom in danger too as you are? Is there a chance for you and your parents to work together on this? 
@pearlsw he isn’t physically assaulting me whilst my parents are there. On all of the occasions it occurred, they were away or far out of ears reach. He wouldn’t touch my mom, as he knows she is a big strong woman in the same weight range as him. I’m very petite small built person, imagine 200 pounds against 106?. My dad is coming back on the 20th of October, just a little over 2 weeks. However I don’t know what to expect from my uBPDh on a minute to minute basis, let alone 2 week’s away. Regarding working together, all they can offer me is to help in case of the things getting really intolerable. My mom went through the divorce with my bio dad and knows firsthand what it’s like to rear a child on her own. She is trying to talk me out of it. Then again, I don’t share with her that he physically threatens me... .I feel so lost and pathetic, completely stuck in s victim’s role.
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2017, 08:41:15 PM »

Oh Snowglobe! You aren't pathetic... .just in a tough situation! Do you not confide in your parents because you are afraid of all the consequences that could open up? You say you want to get on your two feet? Do you have a time frame in mind? How far along are you with your degree?  I imagine you are afraid because any change you make will sharply affect your parent's lives and your kid's lives... .but if you are living with fear of physical violence from him and he is doing nothing to change something must be done. I know, easier said than done. Sorry! Um... .Have you ever called a DV shelter or hotline? I worked at a shelter in the past... .admitting women and children in the middle of the night fleeing horrible situations. They try to help you transition to a preferable living situation, provide you the support they can, etc. Can the school you are going to help you in any way, provide any kind of assistance or counseling perhaps? I know it often seems like we are in hopeless situations, but let's keep talking... .May I ask what you are studying? Let's work, at least, on getting your self-esteem back up, okay? Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 09:51:10 PM »

This is a scary situation. I'm just going to throw this out there as an idea, but could your parents get a place to live together with you and the kids? Is that an option?

Emotional/verbal abuse is awful. But you shouldn't be living in fear for your own safety. What do you think would happen if you told your parents?
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2017, 11:03:18 PM »

Hi again, I hope this link to a Psychology Today article titled Getting Out of the Abusive Relationship works: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/getting-back-out-there/201508/getting-out-the-abusive-relationship

I am not trying to push you in any way to get out now. I cannot say what is best.  You have to make your own decisions in the right time/way, but please get lots of support.  There is danger being in this kind of relationship and danger in trying to get out. But I do want to encourage you to do some of the psychological work of envisioning other possibilities and thinking through a safety plan. This article has a link to a YouTube video by the author talking about how she got out. Maybe if you make it a little "homework" assignment to read stories of others who have gotten out you can help rebuild your self-esteem by relating to these authors? They can provide you with some psychological empowerment/inspiration. Take care!  
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 12:50:55 AM »

Just so you know... .DV shelters vary, but from my experience, well... .If you call one they will listen to your situation and assess it and make a decision about how/when to help you. [This is the piece I did on an overnight shift.] People who are in immediate/emergency situations were allowed in straight away... .less urgent (but still serious) situations might be either scheduled the next day for someone to call back or arrive. Sometimes there is no room and no one new can be admitted so you may have to call more than once and wait. For emergencies they might also put you up in a hotel. Once you enter the residence, well, you have a place to live and a support team. The shelter I worked at was large and had bigger rooms for families and smaller rooms for singles. So, in your case I'd have put you in a room with beds for you and the kids with dressers to store any stuff you brought with you.

Just giving you information so you can imagine this. I'm not saying what you should do, just letting you see/begin to visualize an option.

Once you are there, you live there for awhile. The amount of time will vary based upon your situation and if you are able to manage with living in this type of setting. The shelter provided a pantry with lots of food, rooms with t.v's, toys, games, phones, toiletries. These are undisclosed locations/settings so you cannot be tracked there or found. (If you are found there is assistance.) The police know where they are located and come right away... .they might even take you there.

Once you are there they will hook you up with every possible agency that can provide you any kind of assistance - financial, counseling, stuff for your future place to live. They know women fleeing abuse often have no money, no clothes, no place to live, nothing. They work with you to rebuild all that.

You could live there with the kids and still go to school. The shelter might even take just your mom along with you if needed. It's worth asking.

I know this is a lot to take in. Now is the time to gather information and prepare. Call hotlines and talk over your fears. There is no telling when he will resort to violence again, and there is no reason to believe he won't. And there is no reason to live in fear. It's not easy getting there, but there is a better life waiting when/if you feel ready. I know how psychologically difficult it can be to take these steps.  Take care Snowglobe. I don't mean to push you in any way. It is okay to be confused and uncertain. I just want to help you think this through if I can and let you know you are not alone!
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« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 07:12:23 AM »

Thank you all so much for your continuous support and advices regarding my setuation. I willl reply to all of you individually, once I’m a bit more settled. He has put me in an impossible setuation; to leave him alone and not speak or acknowledge him in any way, yet his rage is picking up a tempo. It’s this impossible dance, where he wants/needs for me to come to him/try to placate/please/apologize/show extreme emotions only so he could push me and away and reject me. Did any of you have a similar setuation? After some time passes, while he is intoxicated, for only then he is capable of any display that resembles intimacy. He opens up saying that he wants me to keep on coming back and “make him feel better” what is this? Need for control? Need to inflict the pain? Need to make someone miserable? Where does it stem from? His dad is likely BPD and mom is codependent, is he inacting his childhood through torturing me? Any ideas?
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 07:27:23 AM »

He has put me in an impossible setuation; to leave him alone and not speak or acknowledge him in any way, yet his rage is picking up a tempo. It’s this impossible dance, where he wants/needs for me to come to him/try to placate/please/apologize/show extreme emotions only so he could push me and away and reject me. Did any of you have a similar setuation? After some time passes, while he is intoxicated, for only then he is capable of any display that resembles intimacy. He opens up saying that he wants me to keep on coming back and “make him feel better” what is this? Need for control? Need to inflict the pain? Need to make someone miserable? Where does it stem from? His dad is likely BPD and mom is codependent, is he inacting his childhood through torturing me? Any ideas?

Yes, I think sometimes they want us to FEEL the pain at the level they feel it. They can see we nons don't and this can be upsetting for someone with BPD traits in my experience. I would say that you should review all the communication tools here, it's always good to have these skills, but the violence aspect makes your situation of another kind.

All the studying and use of the tools could work, but only up to a point. If violence is in his "communication" "arsenal" there is a level of danger for you and your family that cannot be swept under the rug. What if your parents/kids came home to seeing you physically abused or already injured? Yes, he is trying to control you and the relationship. There are so many good resources on here... .I think I was reading on another thread from a list of types of abuse. It was very detailed. It was sobering. Maybe a staff member will be able to locate and share it again? (If I find it first then I will share it because it is very thought provoking.) There is a whole thread buried in here somewhere just about DV and women (they have another one just for men), I think Skip or someone posted the links recently, and it is well worth a read.

It seems you are still sorting out what BPD is. There is a lesson on the side on the right that is just "Understanding your partner's behaviors". Maybe worth reading/rereading it? Sorry, don't want to take up more space on this thread - there are so many others here who can help and support. I just happen to be around. I am gone again for a few days. Will check back another time. Wishing you peace!
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2017, 10:08:59 AM »

Both of us are so disregulated, he is withdrawn and quietly raging, and I screwed  up totally just now. I’ve awoken my uBPDh up and started talking about “seeking a treatment for BPD so us as a family unit can get better”, about my observations of how unhappy and miserable he is, and how his gaming addictions are just a temporary numbing plug that only further propels him out of control when he looses.” He was trying to avoid me and the conversation all together, walking to another floor and telling me “I don’t know” when I asked him why he is telling me not to speak to him or not to approach him.
I’m so angry that I went full Jeding Ninja on him sad he stormed out saying he doesn’t want to be at home and it’s easier to live alone.
I just shot myself in the leg so to speak, and instead of taking care of myself and giving him space to self regulate I pushed him even further away. What advice would you give me to fix it?
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2017, 10:25:27 AM »

I have attempted to have the "get treatment" conversation with my H many times. And it failed miserably. I stopped bothering him about it. He has to be the one to decide if he wants treatment and by me pestering him, he just resisted even more. It became a power struggle between what I wanted and what he wanted. And he would not be forced.

I only bring up T when he begins to tell me that he cannot cope with life and is feeling sad and not angry. A couple weeks ago he agreed to start DBT, but we didn't get the appointment made in time and now he has changed his mind. Now I wait until the next time he sees that his need for help is bigger than he can handle. WHen I do bring it up though, it's not after we have had a fight. He sees that as me trying to fix him. It's only when he sees me as an ally.

It's hard for our pwBPD to even admit they need treatment. In their mind if they need treatment that means they are flawed, unworthy, and bad, which produces shame, and their shame causes them to lash out.  If he doesn't see his need then even if you do get him in treatment, it won't last long. My conversations with my H don't begin with looking at him as a problem. They start with concern for his well being. "I hate seeing you so stressed out. I worry about you because I care for you. I want you to be able to enjoy life." I address the feelings of shame and embarssment. "I know that it can feel embarssing to need help. I felt that way the first time I went to T too. But sometimes we do need help. We can't handle the emotions going on inside and that's ok. That's the what T does. They help us learn to cope with the feelings."

I would suggest that you begin getting T for yourself so that you can begin working on you. You have years of hurt, resentment, abuse, fear, guilt, etc built up and just having someone for you could change everything for you.

As for what to do right now, acknowledge your wrong in pressing him. Apologize. Validate. Validate. Validate.
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« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2017, 03:20:45 AM »

Good call, pearlsw, here's the bpdfamily link you mentioned about women and domestic violence:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61403.0

Snowglobe, I am so sorry to hear that things are worsening for you, and that you feel unsafe.  Can you tell us the last time your husband was physically violent?  

A while back, bananas2 introduced me to the U.S. domestic violence hotline Web site.  I've become a big fan, since they have very clear discussions of several important issues.  :)Snowglobe, please take a look at this site.

Here's a link to a discussion of what abuse is.  It talks about how the abuser exerts control on the victim using various means:
www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/abuse-defined/

I found this discussion of why people stay in abusive relationships to be very informative:
www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/why-do-people-stay-in-abusive-relationships/

And I just found this one this evening.  It addresses one question I've been asking lately -- we spend so much time in the "unhealthy" relationship zone with BPD, when does it cross into the "abusive" zone?
www.thehotline.org/healthy-relationships/relationship-spectrum/

Snowglobe, I believe that you don't live in the U.S., but do live in a country that may have similarly well developed child support and domestic laws and support services?  Have you ever talked in person with a domestic violence counselor?  I just found out that our local health system has them, as well as various local independent agencies.  What is the situation in your country?  The key is to start learning and planning now, not in an emergency.  Talking to someone doesn't mean that you're leaving, but it is an important part of self care and starting to build the strength to assert your boundaries on physical safety.

A while back we talked about how it is possible to lose our identity in relationships like this.  Your husband has been violent 10 times.  Perhaps the last time was not recently.  Certainly someone has a husband who has been violent 100 times.  But even a few incidents of violence can be a powerful control measure, and can cast a cloud over everything, because you never no when it might happen again.  Not being able to feel safe, and to control our own physical boundaries, is one of the worst ways to lose ourselves as a person.

Sorry, I'm not trying to get you depressed with all of this, or urge you to drastic action.  But I am hoping that you are willing to start on a path of self-education and self-strengthening that will lead to a plan that leads to changes that allow you to feel safe.  Speaking of education, when do you hope to finish your degree?

Stay well, my friend.

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« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2017, 08:20:04 AM »

Thank you all so very much for taking the time to read and reply to my posts. Even at the darkest hour and in the midst of the storm I can take some time here and gain a perspective, sometimes things look much scarier on the inside, almost hopeless.
@Wentworths, thank you for even merely suggesting to open another posts to get some support. It helped me to obtain valuable resources. Although I’m not in US the laws are very similar. The type of physical abuse has always been suddle. A slap on a shoulder for not driving correctly, pushing me out of his way when super angry, the only time when things got out of control was when he was disregulated and pushed me off of the bed while we were arguing about Reno costs. I slapped him back and the exchange continued into almost combat like setuation. At that moment I thought that I wasn’t gonna be disciplined and retaliated. Big mistake... .I was so shaken and hurt, not only physically, but mostly emotionally. That our marriage has come to this. That was 3 years ago. Regarding the last time he did anything remotely similar, was a slap on my shoulder for suddenly breaking on the yellow light. My driving style is one of the biggest triggers for him. In fact I avoid at all costs to be in a drivers seat when he is in the car. I get criticized, berated, ridiculed for the way I drive. So my tactic is always allowing him to drive when we are together.
I’m on track to finish by the end of the summer, and plan to start looking for a “real job”. The one that will pay my bills at least. By doing that I hope to get a sense of competency, independence and create a reasonable doubt in his mind that I wasn’t going to put up with his behaviour anymore. That in tern will hopefully propel him to seek help.
@pearlsw, thank you so much for your expertise, one of the bravest steps I took in my life, I openly talked about what is happening in my home to my best friend. She asked me what would I like for her to do, we decided that if things were to get out of hand, I would take the kids and stay with her while I sort things out. Going back to the physical altercation incident- I proceeded to our family physician the next day to get medical tests done to make sure that I was ok. I also told him the reason for that. I however was afraid of him involving the agencies, so I said that the punch was “while he was asleep”?.
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       “Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
snowglobe
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1097



« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2017, 08:24:33 AM »

 The doc. gave me requisitions for the Med. Tests, and I went and told my husband that I a.) went to see our doc and told him about what happened, b.) it’s now on the record. He is very respected and prominent figure in the community with a lot to loose. His reputation and mobility is extremely important not only for his ego, but essential for his business. He was fuming for about a month after, but in a way I think, he is now more cautious, knowing that the next step is police and charges being pressed. In my country the law states that once a professional reports dv, it’s mandatory reported, and is out of my hands as the state will press criminal charges. I hold on to it as my insurance.
@tatterred heart,
Thank you so much, after your reply I wrote him a text saying “ I’m really sorry about setting you off this morning. Instead of showing you how much you mean to me, I pushed you further away. You’re right, I don’t know how you feel or what’s best for you. I love you and enjoy when you are home! Please, forgive me“
He replied “I am not offended”
I said “If there is anything I can do to you brighten the mood, please tell me. I’m happiest when I see you enjoying life.”
Him “All good”
Question: did I use SET correctly, or was I prompting him to be victim again?
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       “Aimer, ce n’est pas se regarder l’un l’autre, c’est regarder ensemble dans la même direction.” – Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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