Management style and vulnerability to BPD partners

[Tired_Dad]

This is a topic that I have had on my mind for some time recently and was looking to see if anyone else working in a management or leadership role identifies the same as me.

At various training events over the years I have been identified with a "collaborative leading style" as opposed to an "authoritative leading style". Meaning that when I am placed in charge of a group, team or project I attempt to get buy in and feedback from the team to be collaborative through the process for a team victory (or failure). I do not think that anyone succeeds in a vacuum, and that all of us derive our strength from the groups that we belong to.

Now, this has led me recently to start thinking that my own management style in the rest of my life... .Attention to detail, thorough problem solving, using team language, always looking for the opportunity for success has made me particularly vulnerable to my wife's behaviors and has made me into a codependent enabler despite my best efforts not to be.

I always get from her the "save me" followed by "I can do it myself" to "why are you always trying to control me?" and the best I can figure is that I am so driven for success at work and at home that I was the perpetual cheerleader and project motivator. I always try to identify obstacles and get by or around them and find conflict in most forms to be detrimental to attaining goals. (not that I am adverse to conflict, just that it usually makes any project harder)

I see in myself how I have allowed myself through rescuing behavior and a team mentality been walked all over by a woman that can't grasp why anyone does anything kind for or to her and is always wondering "when the other shoe will drop" (even forcing it to drop just to prove her points.

So, this is my intellectual curiosity of the day. Please let me know what you think.

[chillamom]

As an organizational psychologist, I am really intrigued by this question - what a cool study this would be!  I also have a very collaborative style at work, having been trained throughout grad school and such on the wonders of empowerment, and it works VERY well in the team settings I have been in.  However, I have a hunch that a more authoritative (or even authoritarian) style might work better in the case of interpersonal "goal setting" with a pwBPD.  In my own situation, I think I expected and tried for too much buy-in on decisions, and as a result would find myself on the receiving end of perpetual perseveration or outright rage.  If I had been more authoritative, e.g.,  "firm but fair" and IMPOSED ideas instead of asking for cooperation, perhaps it would be been better - I too was walked over and taken advantage of, perhaps partially because of my desire to seek collaboration in all things.  I think collaboration may come across as too wishy-washy for a person who is used to seeing everything as a power struggle - he would often make it very clear that his goal in every case was to "dominate and control".  And boy, eventually I sure let him, much to my own detriment.

[GaGrl]

Fascinting. I work in HR talent development and OD, lots of leadership development and executive coaching.

The Thomas-Kilman assessment and conflict style will tell you where you stand re: work style, negotiation and conflict. The five styles are avoiding, accommodating, competing, compromising and collaborating. I fall between collaboration and compromise.

My DH is a collaborator (trained as an Army infantry officer in the servant leader mode), but I swear his 30 year marriage to an uNPD/BPD turned him into an avoider or accommodator at home.

[Cat Familiar]

I don't currently work in a management role, but I did own a business for about 15 years and had employees. I never had an authoritarian style of leadership and as a result some employees took advantage and ultimately I had to fire them. Other employees were a dream team and it was really a pleasure working with them.

With my BPDh, I try and find consensus which sometimes is ridiculous, since often he doesn't know what he wants. I think he'd prefer that I made the choice. Other times when I have a strong opinion about something he might consider me "domineering" if my opinion doesn't line up with his.

Lots of times I'm very flexible because I'm OK with a variety of strategies. I see that as a strength, while I think it annoys the heck out of him because he doesn't have something solid to push back against, either to feel secure or to rebel against.

I'm past the point of trying to collaborate with him on projects around the property anymore because I have a lot of construction, agriculture and animal experience and he's led a rather indoor lifestyle as an attorney. So instead of doing things as a "team" which I had hoped we'd be, now I just do things my way and if he wants to participate, then great! Typically he doesn't.

The trouble is that sometimes it elicits his shame because he knows I can see his helplessness (and even more so his laziness) and then he's likely to say something like, "You just wish you had a cowboy for a husband." Yeah, maybe so at times, but I wish he'd just try.

[Tired_Dad]

Gagrl,

You mentioned some things that have hit home as there is some correlation to my situation as I am an Army officer myself (was active, currently ARNG) and have brought forward servant leadership in the civilian management roles that I have been involved with to great success in some very difficult situations.

Where I see myself failing with it is the move to a type of hybrid accommodating style when faced with a high-conflict team member (or spouse). Where in my civilian or military experience I could counsel and or fire a high conflict disruptive person with little or no impact to myself and only benefit to the team as a whole, in a marriage you can't just "fire" a spouse. In a divorce they will get to exercise more of their high-conflict behavior, and I feel that my instinct will be to try to find an equitable solution to all parties and she will be trying to win... .even if she doesn't know what she want's to win. (Always reminds me of the cartoon when the dog finally catches the car it was chasing.)

I am meeting with a lawyer on Monday to lay the groundwork for a separation and expected eventual divorce. My spouse has become erratic and I see almost all of my skills and management training have no effect as she seems to be actively/instinctively countering all of them... .even when I try to do opposite of my training and instincts to switch it up she is right on me with a counter.

I would be interested to hear more of the perspective from your DH in his process (call it an AAR) to see if I could learn something from his experience and use it to avoid some potential pitfalls as I move forward.

 

[formflier]

I'm an ESTJ.

Also couple shore commands in the Navy and a few CEO type jobs after the Navy.

I like team building.  While I never shy away from being authoritarian when I need to be, I do always reflect on those times and wonder how I could have avoided assuming that role.

Department head meetings consisted of me "guiding discussions" and looking for people to "own" an issue, vice me giving direction on what to do.  I provided broad outlines and sometimes very specific end states... .and I expected them to fill in the blanks of how to get from here to there.

Team building in the civilian world is very different, although many ex military types really enjoyed my coaching style there were a bunch of "pure civilians" that didn't.

OK... .full disclosure... .I was an executive in a large government organizations (local government) and i reported directed to elected boards.  One of their taskers for me was to "get their money's worth" from employees that hadn't had much direction for a long time.  It's understandable that they didn't "want" to be coached.

 Anyway... .I also identify with "servant leader".  I like to "empower" my people to be their best.

So... how does that relate to BPD.  Well... .you have to imagine that someone on your team is going to be very inconsistent... .what works to motivate one day would seem to enrage the next.

One of my funnyisms (FF word) that I would use with people that screwed up in my organizations was that it was my job to "map out" a "pathway to redemption" for them... .it was there job to "walk it"... or not.

I would respect whatever choice they made.

That same mindset can be helpful as a hubby of a pwBPD... .or wife for that matter.

I'm in a very traditional... conservative Baptist relationship... .where (notionally)... .I'm the leader and my wife (obeys)... ... ..

Uhh... .all the guys that know me on here are having a good laugh right now.

Anyway... .my wife really does obey me... .up  until she doesn't... .and it's all my fault. 

Back to the big picture of team building.  Stay away from cheerleading... .focus more on validating and "believing in their ability to solve their own problems".

Somedays they will be a plus... other days... .flunk.

Don't get drawn into the drama.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

@Tired_DadI always get from her the "save me" followed by "I can do it myself" to "why are you always trying to control me?" and the best I can figure is that I am so driven for success at work and at home that I was the perpetual cheerleader and project motivator. I always try to identify obstacles and get by or around them and find conflict in most forms to be detrimental to attaining goals. (not that I am adverse to conflict, just that it usually makes any project harder)

I feel that my instinct will be to try to find an equitable solution to all parties and she will be trying to win... .even if she doesn't know what she want's to win.


@chillamom I think I expected and tried for too much buy-in on decisions, and as a result would find myself on the receiving end of perpetual perseveration or outright rage.  If I had been more authoritative, e.g.,  "firm but fair" and IMPOSED ideas instead of asking for cooperation, perhaps it would be been better - I too was walked over and taken advantage of, perhaps partially because of my desire to seek collaboration in all things.  I think collaboration may come across as too wishy-washy for a person who is used to seeing everything as a power struggle - he would often make it very clear that his goal in every case was to "dominate and control".

@formflier you have to imagine that someone on your team is going to be very inconsistent... .what works to motivate one day would seem to enrage the next.



I'm an INTJ and logic is the defining strategy in my life. I've tried so hard to "figure out" all these pwBPD in my life: my mother, my ex-husband, my current husband. The end result of all this pondering has been brain fatigue as little about them appears logically motivated, more seemingly random based upon endlessly capricious moods. I've narrowed down some of the triggers and those appear to be linked to a fragile sense of self esteem, bad dreams or biochemical alterations linked to hunger and/or substance use. But other than that, those fleeting moods seem almost entirely arbitrary to an outside observer.

Another difficulty in dealing with them is that they can be having shifting feelings of empowerment to ineptitude. So one day I'm met with a haughty attitude: "How dare you explain this in detail to me--I'm smart and can figure this out for myself." And another day, it's: "Can you help me with this? I don't know how to do it."

They also turn so many things into a battle or competition I didn't know I was having. Even though I'm generally on the same page with my husband about political and social matters, if I delve into an issue in an intellectual discussion, he will often try and turn the conversation into a win/lose format and look to score cheap points or attack my argument for lacking specificity if I'm trying to make a general point.

Often he'll get frustrated with me because I'm open to too many options. For example if I'm OK with cooking dinner at home or going out for dinner at two or more places, it might irritate him if I don't have a solid preference. There are times I have definite opinions about these sorts of matters and other times when any of the choices are fine with me.

On the Meyers Briggs spectrum, one thing that seems consistent with pwBPD is that they rate very high on the emotional end of the Thinking/Feeling spectrum. In my case, apparently opposites attract, but perhaps don't get along easily--unless the Thinker of the pair is willing to cleave to clear boundaries.

[formflier]

My wife is INFP.

[Cat Familiar]

My husband is INFP.

[formflier]

 
Interesting how personality types "match" or come together.

Cat... .you and I have lots of similarities.  Remember... .I'm from the South... where chatting and talking is a big part of life... .and I excel at that.

Usually I'm the one that has to be pulled away from a conversation.  I'm drawn to conversation.

It's rare that I want to be by myself, although as I get older, I do enjoy quiet, restful... reflective time.  Something I've been working on more... .to do that kind of thing, even when I don't think I need to. 

FF

[Cat Familiar]

FF, yeah, I can talk a blue streak too, with people I'm close to. I'm not good at chatting up strangers or engaging in small talk, but I can spend an hour on the phone with a friend and just be getting started. That seems to be the defining characteristic of who I'm friends with--how we talk. Lots of them are very different from me in their lifestyles, politics, beliefs, etc., but we can openly talk and enjoy each other's company.

My husband is quite different. Even when we first got together, conversations were somewhat awkward. It was the tremendous physical attraction that was the glue. Ironic that we have been living celibate lifestyles, on the same property, but in our individual houses--but we share common living areas. I wouldn't have guessed that in a million years since the relationship started so smoking hot.

But I digress, I, too, have to be pulled away from a conversation once I get wound up. It just takes me a while to get comfortable with people I don't know.

[Tired_Dad]

The Thomas-Kilman assessment and conflict style will tell you where you stand re: work style, negotiation and conflict. The five styles are avoiding, accommodating, competing, compromising and collaborating... .

This is an interesting topic and is having a good discussion but I would like to steer the conversation back to management style as quoted above by Gagrl and away from the Meyers-Briggs personality point of view as that gets debated and talked about often in these boards.

I want to see if other people who are successful leaders, managers, mentors, coaches in all other aspects of their life have found that those same principles that lead to success outside of the home may be an Achilles heel to them inside the home and dealing with a pwBPD.

This is part of me developing my plan for my own improvement and trying to find ways in essence to counter myself and my instincts based on a comparison to others experiences as well as mine.

[formflier]

So... that would seem to be the main difference in us... .seeking out unfamiliar to engage in conversation.

I find it fascinating.  For a while I was Uber driver... .mainly for the contact with other people... rather than the money.

They would get in... .we would start talking... .they would get out... .usually saying it was the most entertaining Uber they ever had.

I could tell stories about the people I met Ubering... .

FF

[formflier]

 
Back to management style... thread hijack over!   

I think that my management style lends me to "take people at their word".  That doesn't work with pwBPD.

Realizing that they really mean it when they speak... .and then "poof"... .new emotions... .new promises and it all make sense to them... .and leaves us with our head spinning.

I would shy away from the term Achilles Heel.

I would use the analogy of a person coming onto your team for you to manage that does not use "english as a first language".  Granted... it appears they do, but the longer you work with them you realize their language and culture are substantially different.

They are still on your team... .how to you "lead" or "manage" them... .

Let's add in that they have a learning disability and you do not.  So... it's easier for you to learn their language than they learn yours.

Not fair... but that's the price of making a "reasonable accommodation" at your "workplace".

FF