Guilt

[Sadly]

Can anyone relate to this? When my ex had done something wrong, something he felt guilty about, he would become horrible to me. Nasty, short tempered , argumentative, provocative, spoiling for a fight? He could be like this for days, interspaced with clearly trying to make an effort to be nice but as soon as he'd had a drink, nasty again. I would try so hard to be reasonable, make allowances, and then I would finally snap, lose my temper, argue back and suddenly it was all my fault. I am an intelligent enough person, can recognise the guilt thing a person with BPD may feel when they have done something behind your back but I just want to know, if its not just me I guess?

[Sadly]

Clearly just me then

[JWebb88]

Can anyone relate to this? When my ex had done something wrong, something he felt guilty about, he would become horrible to me. Nasty, short tempered , argumentative, provocative, spoiling for a fight? He could be like this for days, interspaced with clearly trying to make an effort to be nice but as soon as he'd had a drink, nasty again. I would try so hard to be reasonable, make allowances, and then I would finally snap, lose my temper, argue back and suddenly it was all my fault. I am an intelligent enough person, can recognise the guilt thing a person with BPD may feel when they have done something behind your back but I just want to know, if its not just me I guess?

Not just you. My ex would do this as well. While in the relationship I thought it was simply him upset that I had to leave him for two weeks at a time (we were LDR). For BPD sufferers any sort of absence is perceived as a slight or being abandoned. He would be awful usually the middle of the first week I was home. Later, I have since realized that, yes, it was an abandonment issue as much as it was a guilt issue. I have recently discovered he had been cheating while I was away. Picking fights with me would make him feel better about his deceptive behavior. Basically, he was justifying mistreating me by finding minuscule faults with me that he could exploit and focus on.

Now, I don't know what your ex BPD partner felt guilty about, however, I think he had the same sort of mentality as my ex. Whatever wrong he had committed towards you was something he could not face. Why not? Because doing so would mean facing that vacant part of himself he wished to avoid. Since my breakup I have learned that BPDs cannot face their shortcomings. Any sort of acknowledgement of wrongdoing forces them to take a good hard look at themselves, which would inevitably cause a mental breakdown. A BPDs fear of abandonment (being unlovable and monstrous) is so strong that they will do everything in their power to justify their selfish actions. Doing anything else breaks the illusion that they are well adjusted, caring and compassionate.

In essence, a BPD transfers their feelings of self loathing onto their significant others. Someone has to be the villain, right? It's a process many psychologists refer to as devaluing. They are essentially taking us off the initial pedestal they put us on in order to subjugate, control and manipulate any situation. For example, mine devalued me whenever I was physically removed from him. He also continued devaluing me (raging and picking cruel fights) to ease his conscience about any transgressions he may be committing. This cycle of abuse returned to the idolization phase only when I gave my ex something that he wanted, such as visiting. Afterwards he would be the perfect boyfriend again, well, until the next time he emotionally fell apart.

My point is, this kind of behavior happens to most people in BPD relationships. Sometimes the episodes of raging will be explosive or passive-aggressive, depending on the type of person with BPD. Mine was a combination of both. He was also narcissistic which didn't help matters either. Narcissists in themselves can never own poor behavior simply due the fact that they feel superior to those around them. They have a lack of empathy. All in all, loving someone with these kinds of disorders isn't easy nor is it emotionally healthy for the nonBPD. We become the punching bags; we become yesterdays news. I'm sorry you had to go through this kind of volatile relationship as well. Just know, you're not alone.   

[Sadly]

Thank you JWebb, yes that's exactly it. I think I knew all this, I have been here before but I just needed to see it confirmed and your words were written beautifully and clearly. I struggle daily with so much, I am a terrible mess and don't appear to have moved on since the last time I was here in April I think. I am in a deep dark lonely place of sadness and loneliness. Very unstable and lost again. I used to have moments of strength when I was here but I don't seem to be able to sustain them. Thank you for replying and your help.

[Enabler]

You are definitely not alone. About a month ago my mother made a comment which started me thinking... ."it's nothing to do with you". A Friend with BPD also confirmed that these incidence are nothing to do with you. As a Non I think we instinctively assume that someone has thought rationally about the reasons why they are angry or upset with us, we self reflect and in my case find the smallest thing that we've done wrong and feel guilt and shame for that thing. There's a subtlety about how conversations evolve with my uBPDw where I think I ultimately provide her with the reason to justify her bad mood. She's scanning for it, will pick around and push doors and buttons till she finds an avenue where I become defensive... .BINGO! I have recently unburdened myself of 20yrs of guilt and shame I have wrongly accumulated from my wife and boy does it feel good. She doesn't have to know, she doesn't have to accept it back, I don't even have to have a conversation with her, I just dropped it. Reading a book called "Toxic Parents" helped. Although I cannot relate to any of the stories, my experience has gone on for 20yrs starting from when I was 18 so in many respects my burden of guilt and shame feels a part of me. It had to go, it did not belong to me.

[foggydew]

Maybe this kind of behaviour is not even a BPD thing. Both my husbands used to do it, and my BPD friend does it too. There is even somewhere a short story (can't remember the author) about a man who lent a friend money, and who recieved constant aggression in return, though he did not ask for the money back.  Feeling guilty causes unpleasant feelings and actions. Drink is particular dangerous in this respect - I have sat through so many tirades, even from my mother when I was a teenager. I was better at ignoring it then, I merely didn't listen, and read a book at the same time.
Sadly, I recognise that place you are in. I was there for such a long time - and then suddenly, I found the mists were clearing. Travelling alone helped a lot, walking alone; and now I have found I have stopped chasing that elusive thing - close friendship. I am alone a lot, but I no longer feel incomplete or lost.
I still have the feeling sometimes that it is 'to do with me' when a friend or relative doesn't call back. Or when BPD friend avoids me for a while. So I don't call often and don't reach out so much - I had the feeling I was a nuisance. Even on here, if no-one answered, that was a trigger... .
It does disappear with time, this awful connection. Sometimes I think it is due to chemistry in the brain, because it is in no way influenced by will.
Good that you posted. Hope you feel much better soon.

[Sadly]

Thank you all, I just can't string words together right now but thank you all

[Enabler]

Foggydew, you're not wrong with regards to many of these behaviors not necessarily being just a BPD thing, I think that's the point about 90% of the BPD behaviors, they are not unseen in non's. I know during the last year I have experienced extreme paranoia, abandonment fears, blame shifting, anger and even a bit of dissociation... .but this is because my uBPDw was having an affair, accusing me of verbal and mental abuse of her and the kids, told me she wanted a divorce and there was nothing i could do or say to rationalize the situation. I've lost 2 stone in weight, had to google "why does my bottom vibrate" (Answer: Extreme levels of cortisone makes your upper legs and buttocks prime for fight or flight) and am still no closer to turning the family fun bus around from it's path towards the cliff.

My point is that on the whole all the behaviours are normal responses to stress, fear, guilt and shame but they're just on crack. I don't think anyone likes the feeling of guilt or shame, that's why we avoid doing things that we might feel guilty about or ashamed of ourselves... .we learn to avoid them. It takes a fair amount of maturity to be able to self reflect and say "I messed up", "it was all me". Non's return to baseline quicker and tend to have a lower baseline meaning we emotionally dysregulate less frequently and for less time, we spend less time in the Red Zone and are thus able to avoid the blackout periods where we act uncontrollably... .you know... .you have an argument > Get drunk > grab an extra large Domino's on the way home and destroy all the dieting work you'd done for the last 2 weeks > feel guilt and shame that you've let yourself down... .the likely personal response will be to blame your partner for the argument and the resulting greedfest.

If the behaviors and reactions were so individual to BPD sufferers then there wouldn't be so many people on these boards who've been in 15+yr relationships who've spent 14.5+yrs scratching their heads not quite being able to put their finger on it. It's also the same reason why friends and acquaintances don't see it and find it impossible to comprehend.  

[JWebb88]

Thank you JWebb, yes that's exactly it. I think I knew all this, I have been here before but I just needed to see it confirmed and your words were written beautifully and clearly. I struggle daily with so much, I am a terrible mess and don't appear to have moved on since the last time I was here in April I think. I am in a deep dark lonely place of sadness and loneliness. Very unstable and lost again. I used to have moments of strength when I was here but I don't seem to be able to sustain them. Thank you for replying and your help.

You're more than welcome. I hope you find peace soon.

[Starfire]

It took me a while to figure it out, but my ex would actually accuse me of the thing he had done that he felt guilty about.  It was part of his defense mechanism.  He felt shame for the behavior, and punishing me was his way of relieving himself of the shame.  It was bizarre.

[MsFixer]

Good lord, yes. My husband used to rage and verbally abuse me all the time but it’s dwindled now that he’s medicated to the teeth. Now he only picks fights with me when he’s cheated or about to cheat. He doesn’t know I’m onto him (trying to get out of here!)

[dazedandconfuzed]

Can anyone relate to this? When my ex had done something wrong, something he felt guilty about, he would become horrible to me. Nasty, short tempered , argumentative, provocative, spoiling for a fight? He could be like this for days, interspaced with clearly trying to make an effort to be nice but as soon as he'd had a drink, nasty again. I would try so hard to be reasonable, make allowances, and then I would finally snap, lose my temper, argue back and suddenly it was all my fault. I am an intelligent enough person, can recognise the guilt thing a person with BPD may feel when they have done something behind your back but I just want to know, if its not just me I guess?

Wow this. 1000x's this. You want to know the easiest way I knew she was lying to me - she would get angry and accuse me of doing something. Oddly enough it would be whatever she was doing at that moment. It was almost a flawless tell. Took me a while to catch onto that.

One good example: she lies to me and spends the night with someone (I find out the next morning when I stop by to pick her up for brunch and she's not there - oh I left early - but her mom was like oh I thought she stayed with you last night - she didn't realize we talked that morning). So I handle arrangements for her brother's birthday party which we had planned to do but she apparently didn't do anything - so there I am getting cake, supplies, presents, etc.  She finally comes back late, can't look at me and is screaming at me about literally everything. I finally tell her we have to put us on the backburner and give her brother a good birthday - the silent treatment then ensues.

The only thing her brother wanted to do for his birthday was pizza and movies (he's a quiet kid and just wanted some time to share what he's interested in instead of being a tag along to the rest) and all she could do the entire day was scream about how worthless it all was, and how all he did was waste his life. And how horrible I am for sitting and watching his movie choice with him while eating pizza and how I should be forcing him to do something productive. She spent most of the night alone in her room then coming out to yell at everyone some more. Eventually everyone got so sick of her that the little party disbanded and I went home. The next day she's like I should apologize to him for ruining his birthday - that never happened.

We eventually did cake maybe 3 days later before the cake went bad. Good cake, I chose well - this coming from someone who isn't the biggest cake fan. I'll go back there next time I need a cake - especially because they hooked me up on very short notice.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Sadly

This link to a discussion on Projection may also help with further insights into your question.  In essence, when a person is unable to tolerate the feeling of guilt, then it is projected onto another, ultimately casting that guilt upon the other and ridding them of the feelings.  There are lots of points and examples in this thread.  I hope it is helpful.

Love and light x

[Enabler]

The difficulty I find with projection is that it takes a certain amount of personal confidence, bordering on arrogance to actually pull the BS card on it. I have thought for many years that I have been taking the guilt and shame for things unnecessarily but since there's an incling of truth in most of the things my wife projects on to me I tend t fly off on wild goose chases trying to work out what I've done wrong and trying to make a mends. Like you say, it's crazy-making and one lives in a permanent state of anxiety believing one is the cause of the marital discourse. It's taken a pretty ballsy move on my part to return 20yrs of guilt back to it's rightful owner. Deflection is another great weapon... .good example was, last year at the beginning of our marriage breakdown i pull her up on her texting another man constantly, 5 minutes later I'm being accused of mentally and verbally abusing her for 16yrs... .That sent me in a tail spin where instinctively I thought there was a grain of truth in the accusation. 12m later she still believes it and is now looking to get a divorce, whilst still communicating with the OM constantly!1

[Sadly]

I did quite a long reply and thank you's but I don't know where it went, was sure pressed post, too tired now but thanks anyway. x

[lovenature]

Pure projection.

You will always experience this unless he commits to YEARS of therapy and you commit to years more of sacrificing your needs in the relationship, even then there is no guarantee it will be healthy enough to be considered worthwhile.