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Author Topic: I made a big mistake. I am not sure where to go from here.  (Read 526 times)
DaddyBear77
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« on: November 19, 2017, 07:29:00 PM »

Things with my wife have escalated over the past several weeks and months. I’ve written about this before. I feel like I am losing my mind.

Tonight, we went out for dinner and while we were at dinner, my wife sounded pretty excited about her school. She was telling me about the novels she read and I was listening and very excited that she was sharing. She rarely does.

Things took a dark turn when she abruptly stopped and said “You’re probably mocking me for being so excited about this. I forgot. You disdain everything I enjoy. You mock my work and you want me to fail. I got excited and forgot who I was talking to. We have nothing in common. I have no idea why were even together.”

We drove the short drive home and when we got here, she sent D4 upstairs and, in the kitchen, told me she thinks we need to either divorce or have an open marriage. The way she put it is we would live separate lives under the same roof. I told her I had no interest in doing either. I’d like to learn more about the things she’s interested in and I’d like to work things out. She started to mock me, telling me I’m just lying and I’ve said this all before. It was intense.

I turned around to go into the family room. No one was in the room. I was angry. There was an empty water bottle by the door - the kind that goes on a water cooler. I kicked it. Too hard. It flew into the family room and knocked a procelain doll off the mantle. It was a hand painted doll that I had just made last weekend  for my wife together with my daughter  at one of those paint your own pottery places.

My wife changed. I had triggered some very horrible memories from her childhood. She screamed at me to get out. I had to leave immediately. This went on for several minutes. I took her seriously. I started to pack a bag. She said she didn’t want me to go. She said I needed help. I am an abusive husband she says. I am a horrible abuser and must get help or else she’s filing for divorce tomorrow.

I said I would get help. We discussed for a few more minutes while she had my daughter and our dog closed in the bathroom behind her. She was standing guard by the door to make sure I didn’t get to them.

After a few more minutes I told her I needed to go to the bathroom. And here I am. Writing this. I have no idea what to do. I am going to go try and figure this out. Any suggestions or insight would be really appreciated. This is the most intense situation I’ve been in. I should never have kicked that bottle. I made a terrible mistake.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 07:44:47 PM »

DB-

So you are listening to your wife when she then gets angry and says she wants either a divorce or open marriage and you kick a water bottle which knocks over a doll?


And YOU have done something so terrible that this justifies what she said?

DB- That's pretty shocking news and you reacted. The water bottle isn't valuable - the doll can be replaced on another outing with your D. And your wife just proposed an open marriage and is blaming that desire to break her marriage vows on you.

I'm not the morality police here but unless I missed something I didn't see any "thou shalt not kick water bottles" in the 10 Commandments but there is something about sex with others outside marriage. Two people can have an agreement to do that but I think you married with this idea of monogamy in mind?

You may have kicked a water bottle but I think your wife has been thinking about something bigger than that.

I don't know you and I could be all wrong here but the open marriage proposal would make me think... .
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 07:53:25 PM »

DB - be careful about leaving. In some states a legal case can be made for "abandonment ". She wants an open marriage? Don't agree to this . Let her be the one who commits adultery if she wants to do that. I'm not a lawyer but should she divorce you - adultery on her part could be in your favor legally.

IMHO - if she wants to leave - don't give her something to build a legal case on you.

You may want to post on the legal board for advice. This does not mean you are choosing to end the relationship but you can learn about your rights if she pursues the open marriage idea.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 09:31:27 PM »

DB - Hang in there! I have been in the same situation spread out over different times and will share some experience:

Divorce / open marriage: I have received the same proposition probably over 100 times, along with a thousand threats of paperwork, her moving out, me needing to move out, I will never see the kids again, etc, and not one threat has ever been close to fulfilled. My take is that our wives are cannot face an emotionally-intense situation + their own dysregulation and seek the quickest exit. They mean it - for the few minutes of five hours they are out of sorts, but they are very unlikely to follow through since they need us more than we them.

I have two suggestions from my own recent experience of this kind of situation:

1) try to focus on the emotion she's having rather than her action plan, recognize what she's feeling, e.g. "If you're proposing a divorce or open marriage, you must feel very disrespected or unloved. I love you and don't want you to feel this way." Try genuine empathy with the real emotion beneath the dramatic overreaction. With my wife, it doesn't resolve anything immediately and she often rejects the sentiment, but I believe it leads to a quicker calming down on her part later.
 
2) if she keeps insisting on divorce / open marriage, then tell her its her life and she can make her own decisions, but she would be responsible for all of the details, e.g. paperwork, kids, she has to find housing and move out, etc. Don't decide anything while she is dysregulating! It is unlikely she plans to follow through.    


Kick the water bottle
For me it was an electric fan / family heirloom. You didn't do anything wrong. It's overwhelming. I lost it yesterday after she locked me and my small children out and I had to argue with her over the phone while trying to keep both of them from jumping down the stairwell. Then she called me out of control and said to the kids ":)ad's scary, isn't he?" When I feel overwhelmed with pain now I try to go the bathroom and cry or silent scream to let the pain out, otherwise I will explode in front of them.

So don't worry about the bottle. Worry about self-soothing and getting yourself in a healthy frame of mind to face her and the kids. Above all we have to try not to let them see us like this even if mom has no issue showing them, often intentionally.

  
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pearlsw
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 09:39:55 PM »

Hi DB, Sorry things got out of hand. A week or two ago I didn't have it in me to follow any of the communication strategies and found myself at my wit's end. But I got myself back to clear, careful thinking as soon as I could... .and you will too. The barrage of negativity when you are genuinely trying to make an effort can be too much at times. Like RolandofEid says, remember to listen past the insults for the feelings. You can speak to the feelings. And just keep a "no breakups" while dysregulating policy - that will keep you grounded through the storm that's hitting you now. Is the "open marriage" idea one she brings up often? Is there more behind this? My h tends to look for someone else while dysregulating, but then it appears it is all b.s. when he is "back." Is she setting you up for something she has in mind, or is she deliberately provoking you? Is it possible all this b.s. is her actually trying to evoke you showing emotions towards her? My h feels his emotions so strongly I am sure at times he just wants me to reflect strong emotions back towards him to match how he feels.    
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 11:42:21 PM »

Thanks everyone. This was really intense tonight, but the storm has passed for now.

Yes, the open marriage proposal is a big  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) - my wife is gearing up for, or already participating in, and affair. I don’t suspect it’s gotten very far if she is having one, but tonight’s far from the first night she’s brought it up. In fact, during some recent intense fights she has stated that she will, mater of factly, find another lover to satisfy her needs.

What bothers me most about all this is that I lost my cool completely. I’ve NEVER kicked something like that. And the fact that it ricocheted and broke something is beside the point. The anger and resentment I’m building up is massive. THATS what I need to get help with. And so tomorrow I’m going to give some therapists a call and see what I can do. This has all gone too far.

I can’t tell you how much these replies helped Center me again. Thank you so much.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 11:51:18 PM »

Hi DB - very glad to here you've made the move to start taking care of yourself. And its reassuring for me to see so many of us are on the same journey. I think you made exactly the right call.

A few weeks ago, I nearly lost it when my son wouldn't leave the playground and pulled him by the arm... .way too hard. That was the wake up call that the problem wasn't just my wife's BPD but equally how I reacted to her and people like her in my life, storing up anger and letting it out on those who didn't deserve it. The next morning I went to the hospital for an emergency therapy session that saved me, and have since begun private therapy during my lunch hour over Skype.

In a way, I'm grateful for the discovery of my wife's BPD because it's finally thrown light on my own problems and what I can do to fix them. I believe if I take care of my side it will incite my wife to take some measures on her end. In the end, we can only control ourselves.
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pearlsw
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 11:52:13 PM »

Hi DB,

I was here with ya! I was imagining breathing slow and running through all the thoughts I could pull up in my head that I use to calm myself. "It's going to be okay. This will pass. Focus on my breathing. Stay calm. It's going to be okay." etc. and sending you those thoughts! Smiling (click to insert in post)

I have a backlog of resentment too. I get it. When alone I let myself say all those thoughts in my head and just let them out and release them that way, little by little.

She may be saying such things to help her justify whatever she may be already doing or contemplating doing. How do you feel about this piece of things? What would you say to her about it if you could?

Short of therapy, in the meantime, one big shortcut to do-it-yourself stuff that helps with anger is mediation. I took it up myself years ago when I had a partner who was really hard for me to get along with... .He brought a lot of stress into our lives and I just had had enough. He was gonna do his stuff, but I had to stop being so angry in response - it was too much stress on my heart to get angry and try to reason with him. I did it a zen center, but you can do searches on it and just do it on your own at home. I liked doing it as part of a community because it helps you feel supported and uplifted to sit with others who are meditating.  
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 04:34:05 AM »

DB- I was also thinking this could be your chance to get help since she mentioned "you" have a problem. In the past though- she has successfully thwarted your efforts to get help for yourself.

I agree with Roland that the threats are often just that- threats- except from your past posts I think I recall your wife has acted on the affair and so I take the "open marriage" as a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post).

I also agree with Roland that if she wants a divorce- she can act on it. You don't have to do it for her ( unless you wanted to do it). However, with the escalation of her behaviors and your level of frustration, I think it is wise to not inadvertently do something to make a case against you- like DV or abandonment ( if you were to agree to leave). States have different laws about these things in addition to some states have adultery laws. I am not a lawyer, but I have watched some of my couple friends get divorced for various reasons and have heard about these kinds of laws. Consulting a lawyer would help you know your state laws and your rights better- should she pursue this idea.

I haven't dealt with the open marriage idea, but from reading the posts about this on the board, the idea seems to be "Ok for me ( the person who proposes it) to have an affair but not for you" even if they do propose it as open for both. What your wife is proposing is that the two of you continue to live together with you providing support for her while she has a boyfriend too. I don't know if she will have an affair or not. I agree with Roland that all talk and no action is just a part of the dysregulation. What she does is not something you can control, but your part is to decide what your boundaries are about this if she were to act on it.

I also agree that working on our own reactivity is a great step - regardless of the state of the relationship.



 

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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 07:37:52 AM »

Wow, I've so been in this situation. I can find it difficult to control my own anger and frustration, especially after over a decade with a partner suffering from untreated BPD. You are not abusive for kicking the bottle. I have kicked and thrown things out of frustration (never to hurt my partner), and my SO reacted a similar way - very badly, freaking out saying I was being scary and abusive. We as partner's do need to attend therapy and work on our reactions, but at the same time our partners experienced quite dramatic reactions to this perceived threat, probably because of their BPD. I think in this situation, both parties need to separate for a short amount of time to take a breather (as you rightly have done) and then discuss calmly and quietly why it happened and how to resolve it for the future. I think my temper can be shorter than it should be when my partner is having a bit of an episode and it's something I've agreed to work on asap. I'd love to hear how others have learned to manage this.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 06:42:00 PM »

While I agree that it is important to not fly off the handle when angry, to put this in context:

It was just a few weeks ago that DB bought his wife a big ring, despite the fact that there were financial stresses, and took a nice romantic vacation where they renewed their vows.

Now, basically right after this, in the middle of a calm discussion ( not an argument) she gets angry and proposes the idea that she would like to sleep with someone else. Whether or not she actually does want to or would do it, it still is very hurtful to hear this.

I'd be willing to bet those renewed vows didn't include a husband and a boyfriend.  

I think this is something that would understandably upset someone to the point where they would be frustrated enough to kick something, and the choice of a water bottle is better than causing harm or significant property damage.
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DaddyBear77
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 07:14:06 PM »

pearlsw - your positive thoughts are no doubt reaching me across the ether of cyberspace. Thank you 

GreyCloudCat - welcome to the boards. Thank you so much for posting here. I know you’ll find so many similar stories. As I find my center again I owe a lot to everyone here.

RolandOfEd - another amazing similarity. Every time I post, someone else describes how they’ve been in a eerily similar spot. Thank you for sharing.

Notwendy - thank you. You’re touching on something I often ignore - this is NOT just an isolated incident. Keeping a log, taking note, whatever it takes to remember this is a pattern and isn’t just going to go away, that can  be a powerful reminder for anyone in a similar situation. It certainly is for me.


Before I bought an expensive diamond ring, it was an expensive pair of earrings. Before that it was a 2 week trip to Asia. And before that, trips to Aruba and the west coast. A new wedding band. And that’s just financial stuff.

Taking a big step back, though, it’s not even about all the stuff. It’s just stuff. I’m always going to have some sort of gainful employment. Eventually I’ll pay off the debts and get back to even.

What REALLY matters is allocation of resources.

I’m coming home from work right now in a suit I bought 10 years ago. It’s 2 sizes too small. My shoes are just as old, and they haven’t been polished, ever. My car has needed an oil change for 3 months now. The tires are nearly bald. Meanwhile, my wife has had over $1000 in hair treatments in the past 2 weeks. She freaked out as I was leaving for work this morning because the preschool said we were behind on payments. We weren’t, but my wife’s primary concern was that she wouldn’t get the money i had promised to put in her personal savings.

These are some of the reason I found it necessary to kick a bottle. I still shouldn’t have done it. But it’s not like I was just unhappy with the way she spoke to me last night or something.
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 07:58:25 PM »

DB- that's how I grew up- with the resources allocated to my mother. It's one reason I noticed your early posts.

It's not an issue to buy expensive items if these things are affordable- and both spouses enjoy nice things without it being a financial strain on the family. But that isn't the case in yours and it wasn't in mine.

I hope that by noticing the pattern you can see that expensive purchases and self deprivation are not lasting solutions.
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 11:35:34 PM »

DB- I'm with everyone else on this one. You kicking the water bottle was pretty understandable. I'm glad you are using it for good by getting yourself some therapy. I highly doubt any decent therapist will fault you for it either, and you'll have some IRL support and help in dealing with your wife and the anger you understandably have.

My first impression was that your wife was pulling the old "watch, I know he'll cheat on me" trick. My husband has told me to go find another man a thousand times. But if you already suspect she's cheating or on the verge, that is a whole 'nother game.

I'm so sorry this is happening. You've been good to her. You've made so many sacrifices for her. I wish I could slap some sense into her for you, figuratively speaking.

I haven't read all of your other posts, just a few of the latest ones, but have you tried putting limits on her spending? I imagine it wouldn't go over well. I cannot grasp the selfishness of our spouses. I splurge on myself every once in a while. Last week I bought 3 new shirts ($40) and a new rug for the back door ($16!) That was a crazy spending week for me! Smiling (click to insert in post) I can't fathom $1000 in hair treatments.

I hope this doesn't come across snarky, and I'm not suggesting you do this, but isn't it tempting to let the affair man start footing the bills for this stuff? I can't imagine she will find another man who would tolerate her behavior and finance her lifestyle while being treated like you have been. I'm not saying do it, but think about your values. Making my values the basis of my decision making and boundaries has helped me begin regaining a sense of control and peace. Just a beginning, but I think it will only get better over time.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 05:39:50 AM »

I know this is the improving board, but I think one has to be clear about what is "improvement". Some kind of improvement can risk the relationship. I think it would help to be clear about what is improvement and it could be different for different people.

One of the goals is to reduce conflict by reducing our own contribution to the dysfunction. This is where skills like validation and not JADEing come in.

But other goals, such as boundaries on spending are not going to initially reduce conflict. There is an extinction burst. Things may actually get worse before they get better. This is tough, because giving in with escalated behaviors reinforces them. These behaviors can be pretty bad. ( I saw BPD mom trash the house, threaten to leave, etc)

Boundaries may even threaten the relationship. Saying no to expensive hair treatments, jewelry might result in DB's wife looking for someone else to finance them. This may not appear to be improving the relationship- but really- everyone has choices and values and if having an affair is something someone wants to choose then there isn't much control anyone else has about that. She also could choose the marriage and accept the boundaries. However, one doesn't know this until attempting the boundary and it is scary to face the unknown.

I think we make these choices frequently- is this worth causing a scene about, or is it better to just give in and keep the peace. The problem with keeping the peace is that it doesn't lead to change- the same dynamics prevail. Sometimes it can be tough to withstand the emotional storm that follows "saying no" but IMHO I think it takes being able to do this if there is a chance of change. The scary part is not knowing what that change will lead to.
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Graceinaction

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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 10:48:41 AM »

Notwendy, you said that in a much better way than I did! I agree completely, and improving the marriage isn't simply learning how to communicate so we can keep conflict down. It is also learning to communicate and even know what our own needs are so we don't become and stay bitter and resentful. What's the point of "improving" if we are having our values trampled and our needs ignored. Granted, in these relationships especially we have to meet most of our own needs, but boundaries are important just to allow us to do that sometimes.

It's a fine line, and very hard to figure out. DB, you can figure all of that out for yourself, and maybe the spending is something you're willing to tolerate. Notwendy, thank you for stating it so well.
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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 11:13:05 AM »

I don't know the story well but... .and this going to sound very weird... .I had a similar conversation with my uBPDw OM (emotional affair/spiritual journey companion/major freakin detraction) a few weekends ago. His STBXW has been constantly demanding stuff off him for years and years and is never satisfied. I couldn't decide whether or not the stuff demands were about wanting to test him or in effect his love for her Stuff =  Love, whether this was just a way she learnt to get attention when she was younger Demanding Stuff = Attention, whether stuff was something she thought was the key to her happiness Stuff = The Key to My Happiness... .ultimately though it was never really about the stuff and it was an insatiable appetite. My feeling in this instance was that it was probably a combination of all of them. She had a neglectful childhood where she had to fight for attention. This is just a continuation of the childhood narrative but with bigger price tags. I don't have any solutions to this and I dare say all will be painful unless she is prepared to address the root cause of the demands for stuff.

The problem with hitting/kicking/breaking things is that anyone who's read anything on abusive people they say that hitting/kicking/breaking things is a red flag for abusive people. I too have hit/kicked and broker inanimate objects out of absolute frustration of my perceived helplessness. Unfortunately those intent on proving abusive behavior rarely keep reading about anger to understand that it is a perfectly acceptable human emotion that SHOULD be expressed when required, and one of the suggested outlets is to hit/kick/ break an inanimate object to relieve the tension... .
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 11:24:18 AM »

It was just a few weeks ago that DB bought his wife a big ring, despite the fact that there were financial stresses, and took a nice romantic vacation where they renewed their vows.

Before I bought an expensive diamond ring, it was an expensive pair of earrings. Before that it was a 2 week trip to Asia. And before that, trips to Aruba and the west coast. A new wedding band.

I’m coming home from work right now in a suit I bought 10 years ago. It’s 2 sizes too small. My shoes are just as old, and they haven’t been polished, ever. My car has needed an oil change for 3 months now. The tires are nearly bald. Meanwhile, my wife has had over $1000 in hair treatments in the past 2 weeks. She freaked out as I was leaving for work this morning because the preschool said we were behind on payments. We weren’t, but my wife’s primary concern was that she wouldn’t get the money i had promised to put in her personal savings.

My question is... .is giving her all of these things making her happy? Is it changing anything?  Why do you see her needs as more important than your own? Is putting this financial stress on your family to try and satisfy what sounds to me like a bottomless pit of need (for things) worth it?  I can totally see why you were frustrated enough to kick the water bottle you are giving... .giving... .giving... .but what are you receiving?

Panda39
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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 12:18:54 PM »

Excerpt
I agree completely, and improving the marriage isn't simply learning how to communicate so we can keep conflict down. It is also learning to communicate and even know what our own needs are so we don't become and stay bitter and resentful

Resentment = the death of any relationship.  You can deal with anger, sadness, and a gamut of other emotions, but not resentment. 

DB does a lot for his wife.  He deprives himself to try to "keep her happy".  Sadly, she does not actually know how to BE happy.  She is a mess inside and blames him and her lack of the newest toy, the newest trip for her sadness, not her messed up internal emotions. 

I went into debt at times rather than tell H "No, we can't afford that."  The fight that would follow was usually about me being selfish or mis spending money, and never about his desires at the time outweighing our income.  He has much improved. 

But I had to allow myself the accept that people can only really be happy - if they learn to let themselves be happy.  I can't MAKE H happy.  I can try to be pleasant and try to do things I think he enjoys.  But much like leading a horse to water, he has to choose to drink that happiness.  DB rightly does not want to jump right into that fight, but it needs to happen, I think, at some point.  The gifting-to-happiness is untenable AND not working for anyone in this household.

I agree about seeking legal advice, just as a precautionary measure.  Learn if leaving to cool of IS abandonment in your state.  I am also not going to get onto a guy for kicking an inanimate object while alone in a room.  When I was 15 I was given a ":)ammit Doll" I was supposed to, well, beat my anger out on.  Since I had been an abused child, I could not hit a doll (In 5th grade I threw a doll in anger.  I stopped, horrified that I had just done to my "baby" what my dad had done to me not long before - picked me up by my hair and tossed me.  I determined that I needed to never do that again.)  Getting rage, frustration, and resentment out via physical means is fine as long as it can be controlled and the person is not blind to what is happening. 

DB - I'd recommend spending some money on a gym membership instead of hair treatments and getting some kick boxing in or physically wear yourself out as you can, to help with a release of some of these emotions.  It's also good for your serotonin release and will lower blood pressure and blood sugar, keeping you more in control of your body chemistry, and therefore your emotions.  In college, I liked to go rollerblading (yeah, I'm old) when depressed or feeling trapped in my dorm room.  I never took up jogging, but it's a good thing I hear except for your knees.  Anyway, find a safe, controlled, physical outlet, and go to town. 

Also, yes, if she wants a divorce, she has to do the legwork.  You don't want one, so it's not your responsibility to do anything (other than protecting yourself and your custody rights).  Talk to a lawyer as you can to make sure you are in good standing should she try to paint you as a violent monster.  Sadly, the woman will get a more lenient hearing than you, so the burden of proof is on you in this.

And yes, the "open marriage" talk is a red flag.  H has threatened more times than I can count to find "what he needs where he can get it" if I am being "frigid" or "making him upset".  He's not doing this as often, but it's happened.

I see it as one of two things - she IS entertaining it in her dysregulated mind.  She is looking for that elusive happiness you refuse to give her, and often the idea is it can just be found somewhere else, but I'd really hate to give up my cushy benefits here, so let have that cake and eat it, too.

Also, she knew it would hurt you.  pwBPD like to make us hurt to the level they re hurting.  It could possibly have been a simple "I feel uncomfortable, let me make HIM uncomfortable" reactions.  She sounds like she was in a good place, and could not process it, got scared, and so she lashed out.  Like rubbing a cat's belly, even if it's purring, even if it rolled over so you'd pet the belly, it WILL claw you at some point.  So, she clawed you by saying, yeah - all those things you've done?  Screw them I want a boyfriend - how do you feel now?  You feel as upset as I am?  Good!  Where's my unmitigated permanent happiness already? 

One last thing, since I have learned more and more how much his health affects his emotions - how old is your W?  Is she at an age where she amy feel  like she ahs wrinkels, like she is no longer a "hot commodity", or maybe even be having hormonal issues?  Sadly, I may as well have BPD every 28 days for how rational I can be on my period.  If she is out of wack, this could be part of the cause for the escaltion.  BPD is the cause, but the LEVEL of her dysregulation can be affected by underlying issues of health.  I have a friend with a silent tumor in her head, every now and then it can make her hormones go off, cause fibroaids and / or uncontrollable rage/crying.  So just consider it if you can, log things, check against her cycle, medications, and if she might be pre-menopausal. 
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 02:49:13 PM »

Excerpt
Also, she knew it would hurt you.  pwBPD like to make us hurt to the level they re hurting.  It could possibly have been a simple "I feel uncomfortable, let me make HIM uncomfortable" reactions.

This, and have you ever considered those divorce / open relationship threats as a test, to see your reaction ? Ever thought about the possibility that she brings it up and keeps pushing and pushing, to see just how much you love her ? Maybe her thinking goes in the line of 'Let's see, maybe if I insist long enough, he will give in ... .and then, I have proof he doesn't love me, and we can as well go through with it !'

Personally I would stick to a 'no, I don't want a divorce, and I don't want an open relationship. And now I don't want to talk about it anymore'. Don't elaborate on it. If she insists, keep repeating 'no, I don't want it, and I will never want it'.

The others are right about it not being you who has to take action concerning the divorce. I think that if I were you, I wouldn't even tell her that 'If you want a divorce, you have to take the necessary steps yourself'. I would just sweep the divorce idea off the table.

What do you think ?
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 02:33:18 PM »

  DB, I'm glad you've calmed down a bit after that incident. And I hope you realize that even though both you did something that upset your wife and she did something to upset you, they aren't equivalent. Kicking an empty bottle, even with the result of breaking something isn't on the same scale as threatening to divorce.

But other goals, such as boundaries on spending are not going to initially reduce conflict.

You can't avoid all conflicts.

And you know that she will threaten divorce to get you to back down in a conflict. She might even follow through on it; you don't know that for sure. But what I hope you are realizing is that some things are too important to you for you to give in on.

(Digression: I'm a supporter of open relationships when they can work. I don't believe you are interested in one with your wife, so I'll skip the hijack telling you some reasons one with your wife isn't likely to work... .)
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« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 02:52:51 PM »

Daddy Bear, I am so sorry this is happening with your W.

You are a very loving H and your wife seems to need validation. As you said, something in her childhood was triggered and she is dysregulating.

As with most people with PDs, she claims you are the problem.  Your kicking the bottle is understandable.  It's not like you put a hole in the wall with a punch, or shook a fist at your wife.  It is very common for pwBPD to project onto others, and her saying you are abusive is an example of this.  As a man, though, you must be very carefully with what she might allege to law enforcement.  It's easy for her to claim you were "violent" over the water bottle.

I feel for your frustration, anger and disappointment.

You seem kind and generous to your wife in your gifting her with nice tokens of love.  

Do not enable her in agreeing to an "open marriage" as this is yet another means of the push/pull dynamic of BPD.  She wants you to sanction her "pulling" away from her.  :)on't let her do it.  My uBPD/uNPD H is always making threat of divorce when he is unhappy with me or projecting something onto me from work or his family (or even his uNPD exW who had an affair and left him.)

Apply some boundaries.

I am glad you are seeking counseling as a marriage to a pwBPD to crazymaking in and of itself.  I know you are going through a very difficult time.

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« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2017, 08:05:22 AM »

DB, brother!

I'm so sorry about your pain, you don't deserve any of that. We keep taking and understanding, and working to be better... .and we are then mocked, ridiculed, not believed, and accused of doing the opposite of what we give our life to do. You could roast a turkey with the heat of our frustration!

I once threw my own laptop to the floor in frustration. Thank God it did not break, but my Gf said we needed to break up if she triggers that anger in me.

We do everyday an impossible task. It's like we walk all day, until our feet bleed, and at the end of the day we look back and we are further from the goal line than yesterday. We've moved backwards! That's how it feels when they judge our "work".

That's why it is important to keep track of the facts of what we do, that we know, and that we have support from other people who ground us and give us perspective.

We live with people that get small triggers (even imaginary ones) and show a lot of anger, and we take big triggers and we try to answer in a constructive way. There is a lot of justifiable anger that gets ignored, dodged or bottled up, so we are able to do that.

You just showed your frustration, you let her see it. We tend to label what's gonna come back to bite us in the behind, as mistakes. As you see, not many call that a mistake, it is more than understandable. None of us want to "lose it", but you were just human. We can't be Superman all the time.

Hang in there, man. I hope things get better. 
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