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Author Topic: A little story for those who are stuck undecided, like myself  (Read 1198 times)
SamwizeGamgee
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« on: December 06, 2017, 09:12:48 AM »

Greetings, I hope everyone is doing well enough.  I feel I best belong to the category of stuck - if not also undecided whether to stay or leave a relationship with my uBPDw.  We have kids, so there's not and easy answer to leave. Furthermore, since I've been doing work on myself for a few years, things have gotten measurable better at home. Nevertheless, I have an unmistakable deeper feeling that says to leave to save myself.  

To make matters worse, and more confusing, my wife is now into her charming mode, where she can simultaneously justify her past psychotic episodes (not in those words at all however), and say that she forgives me for the past.  And, she has decided to go back to when she was doing so many nice things for me.  Some would call it [insert name of vacuum manufacturer here], but to me, it has a more self-righteous / guilt inflicting tone in my life.

I came up with this story.

Imagine that you had a daughter.  She’s grown, and lives a successful life.  She reports that she’s still married, even though things aren’t the best.  In all, she’s got a good car, decent and clean house and clothes, the food is alright, the bills are paid.  Her financial future is secure. She’s got insurance, cell phone, internet, good healthcare and benefits – most of it just by way of her marriage.  She’s been on vacations, has time with the kids, things are stable in a good neighborhood.   And she’s been married for a while.  Her husband still wants to stay married.  Things are pretty good for him too.  The only little problem is that in the past, he hit her and broke her cheekbone, and throws her to the floor on occasion.  

What would you do?  

So often we look at a long marriage as an accomplishment.  As though we should honor and salute those who stay married.  But I think that’s not always the best assumption.

While I see myself as partly the victim in reality, I changed the generation and gender of the victim for this story.  I think it's hard to mentally register men being victims, especially of verbal and emotional abuse.  It's a little difficult to rate emotional abuse in anyone, really.  But, if abuse is abuse, how and why do we stay?

Just an open hypothetical question to consider for those who are still with a BPD partner and undecided.  
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 11:35:08 AM »

Excerpt
I think it's hard to mentally register men being victims, especially of verbal and emotional abuse.  It's a little difficult to rate emotional abuse in anyone, really.  But, if abuse is abuse, how and why do we stay?

Hey Sam, Right, abuse against men is largely under the radar.  Consider all the recent reports of sexual abuse in the media.  I find it interesting that not one man has come forward to report abuse by a woman.  It's sort of a taboo subject, isn't it?  Yet I'm sure it happens every day.  There's a lot of support out there for victims of domestic violence, but it's almost exclusively directed towards women.

In your story, you explicitly refer to physical abuse.  Perhaps you have been the object of physical abuse at some point in your life?  No doubt you have also been the object of verbal and emotional abuse, as you explain above.

Yes, abuse is abuse, and it's unacceptable.  It destroys one's self-confidence and self-esteem, and leads to helplessness and depression, which you more or less describe.  No wonder you can relate to those on Death Row, because in a sense you're already in prison, aren't you?

What can we do to help bring clarity to your situation?  What baby steps can you take today to get back on your true path before it's too late?

LuckyJim

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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 12:03:12 PM »

What if the husband in the story is mentally ill, and his illness causes the abuse, but only on occasion? Is it an act of compassion for the daughter to stay with him to try to help?

What if the husband doesn't want to stay married, at least not when he's in abusive illness mode? Is it a no-brainer then?

It is difficult, as a man, to admit to yourself that you're being abused, much less admit it to someone else.

I hate that everyone else outside my situation seems to have such clarity on it and it still seems so unclear to me. My therapist spent months working to get me to admit I'd been abused. Now he's busy trying to get me to admit my goal shouldn't be reconciliation, but rather divorce. All of my friends who know the situation seem to think divorce is the right path as well. And I at least already have realized that if that is the path I end up on, *I* will be fine. (That took a while too.) But I really resent the incredible disruption divorce will represent, for everyone. If only all that effort could go into improved mental health, the world would be a much better place.
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 01:56:08 PM »


The only little problem is that in the past, he hit her and broke her cheekbone, and throws her to the floor on occasion.  

What would you do?  


@Sam,

I had (have) a short metal list in my head, as to; do I stay or go, and as I remember, #2 on that list is physical violence, and or the direct and credible threat thereof, .not to even mention the carrying out of such behaviors on a semi regular basis during dysregulative behaviors... .and to have this type of behavior happen often (ie' sustained)... .that's a big NOGO for me... .I would not put up with that period.

No matter how "nice" things are (materialistically), .if my mate (u/BPDw) wants to whoop up on me from time to time, then I am out of there. v/r Red5

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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 02:24:51 PM »

Totally relate.

1. If physical abuse were to occur, I would count my blessings and get out. It would be the excuse I needed.
2. If she decided she would leave, I would count my blessings and move on. It would be the excuse I needed.

But... .

Physical abuse has not occurred, only emotional/verbal. She has said she will stay even if I am despicable. It's up to me to leave. "Then she can trash me." So, I remain stuck searching for clarity. Too good to leave. Not good enough to stay.

This week was interesting though. After telling me she wanted out but would not leave, I set up a conversation with her about separating for a while so that we could get our heads on straight. I researched and found a temporary apartment. When the time came for the conversation, she said she didn't want me to leave (although she didn't want me to stay either.) She's been relatively calm since then. And I am letting the opportunity slip away... .again.

DH


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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 03:08:27 PM »

Physical abuse is where I personally draw the line.  Emotional rants and rages, for me, are workable, but once punch has been thrown, it would spell the end of the relationship.

For nasty words said in anger, there can be hope for a relationship, IMO.  Physical injury means an important boundary has been crossed.

That said, everyone has what is negotiable and non-negotiable.

One person's final straw is not another's.

Abuse is abuse.  Although we hear more about women being victims of domestic violence (hey, men are stronger and bigger, and are more prone to violence), men are certainly targets of such abuse.
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 03:28:47 PM »

I "wish" I was the victim of physical abuse.  It's tangible.  You can take pictures, pictures that show up in police reports.  You can articulate it easily.  I only wish.  The disadvantage to getting physically abused is that, for me, it might trigger a physical retaliation.  I can't imagine that would end well for anyone.

Instead I've got the years of treatment by a reality-twisting, emotionally abusive waif uBPD.  

What if the husband in the story is mentally ill, and his illness causes the abuse, but only on occasion? Is it an act of compassion for the daughter to stay with him to try to help?

I don't believe so presently.  I used to think of BPD as an illness, and generally we try to stick with our mate through illnesses.  However, I can't stand the idea of the hypothetical daughter in the example staying in a relationship that is "only occasionally" abusive.  Therefore, I should love myself to hold the same standard.  :)on't let myself get abused.  But again, there's that guy-code that says just tough it out.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) LJ - thanks for keeping an eye out for me.  I really can't recall any incident of physical abuse, short of the yelling, angry bewildering stares, and so forth.  

I'm looking at myself also trying to perceive if I'm depressed.  But, I fell pretty god about myself and everything outside of my marriage (and now my D16).  I have gone deep into radical acceptance.  I think that has let me stay even at the point that I'm pretty happy on death row.  

I believe everyone who is reasonable - but not quite inside my head (family, lawyers, accountants) - would probably advise me to just stay married.  Funny enough, my wife told me last night that she certainly doesn't want a divorce.  However, I had previously set an appointment with a divorce lawyer for next week.  Everyone will think I'm crazy.  Except me, and a few people who are in the know. It sounds like the opposite of the "everyone but me" clarity described by barnowl.
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 03:57:02 PM »

Excerpt
Everyone will think I'm crazy.  Except me, and a few people who are in the know. It sounds like the opposite of the "everyone but me" clarity described by barnowl.

Hey Sam, I think we can all agree that no one on the outside has any conception of what it's like, behind closed doors, on the inside of a BPD r/s.  It's just so far out of the realm of what others have experienced.  To me, it's irrelevant that others might think you crazy for leaving or that reasonable people might advise you to stay, because they don't know what it's really like.  You're the Captain of your Ship, not them, and you have to call the shots for your own life.

Is there a chance that you could take a break and spend a few days apart from your pwBPD?  I know you have kids which makes it complicated to get away.  Maybe you have a close friend or family member who would be open to a visit?  Sometimes, a change of scene can bring about a change in perspective.

LJ
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 03:58:36 PM »

I "wish" I was the victim of physical abuse.  It's tangible.  You can take pictures, pictures that show up in police reports.  You can articulate it easily.  I only wish.  

Hi, Samwise!  By the way - love your screenname!  Having had the dubious "honor" of experiencing both physical and emotional abuse, I can say that I sadly agree with your assessment.  When I was being hit or pushed or whatever else, it was easy to say that my abuser was wrong.  My current emotional abuse is far more destructive because I have most often ended up feeling like there was something wrong with me.  And no one sees it, other than seeing a deterioration of confidence and sparkle.  

At the end of the day, whether you stay or you choose to follow through with the divorce, the only person whose opinion counts is you. No one else has to do the heavy lifting either way.

I hope whatever decision you make brings you peace.
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 05:05:23 PM »

I’m at the same spot. Stuck. I’ve had both the physical and the emotional abuse.
Her verbal thrashing’s I think I’m pretty sure I suffer from ptsd from. Bad. Horrible.

I finally had enough after she started to bring up 17 years of dirty laundry in front of D10. She told me she’d stop if I finally would leave. So I did.

The last 2 days have been probably the darkest of my life. Her extinction burst was horrific. Today was recycling attempt and frankly she admitted to just about everything and seems genuinely sorry. Yet here I am with a choice. Move back in tonight, or go back to my parents house and it’s over.

Like you Sam, I have just about everything anyone could want, yet I feel dead. Dead inside from all the hurt. I look at her and know I still love her, but there is something so strong in my soul that says “save yourself”.  It’s just so hard.

I’m going to try and stay strong and make the jump tonight. Good luck to you.
-Oz
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 05:59:03 PM »

It's clear what you would say to your daughter in the scenario, as our situations might be clear to anyone on the outside of it. Doesn't make it easier though!

Even the physical abuse can be a slippery slope, as strange as it sounds. It's easy to make that the line in the sand, but what will you do when it happens? Yes she threw something at me, but it was a plastic bottle so it really wasn't going to hurt me that much right? She hit me but maybe I'm just over-imagining how hard it was, because it didn't leave a mark. I don't do this anymore, but I did when it first started happening.

Her verbal assaults are so much worse and actually stick in my mind much more. The things she said are what I make myself remember as I move forward.

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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 08:45:58 PM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Ozmatoz - I should be heading to bed now, but I had to log back in just to say I hear you. We have walked some of the same roads it sounds like.  IT's story for another day, but my wife was still bringing up things she says I did with a former girlfriend and uses it against me.  This was from two years BEFORE I met my wife. I'm condemned all the same.
Good luck.  Be safe above all.

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) all - thanks for the encouragement.  I think the fog is finally lifting.  I am learning to listen to my inner voice.
I'm also thinking previously forbidden thoughts. I'm thinking about what I could do during, and post-divorce.  I'm getting a heady kind of sense of readiness.
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 09:44:25 PM »

The weaponized stories from way in the past... .boy does that ring a bell. My wife has several favorites from the 1990s that "prove" my "inferiority". To think that for 20 years I imagined that I could somehow atone for them.

Sam, I am right there with you buddy. A few weeks ago it was inconceivable that I would ever agree to divorce without a massive fight and breakdown. And I'm still scared of the damage it will do and the difficulties it will present. But I have to force myself to consider that it may be the only option left.

lpheal's post struck a chord too. "Oh she just broke my glasses, they can be repaired, I'm not even bleeding and no one will notice that tiny bruise." In what world is that acceptable? Worse yet, recently when my therapist asked about abuse I'd completely forgotten about the glasses-breaking incident... .which happened not once, but twice. Only later did I recall it.

And my wife just came in and interrupted my writing this reply... .and I got the full third degree about it and a lovely long discussion ensued about it. She is really hating my new approach (understandably, she's had 20 years of me constantly rescuing her, it's a pretty bitter pill to swallow when I suddenly stop). Even got the "worthless" feelings and everything, but very carefully couched to implicate me ("you make me feel worthless".
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 10:24:12 PM »

Hi SamwizeGamgee,

I find myself in almost the exact same situation you are in. I feel stuck. There is no physical abuse but over 20 years of mental and emotional abuse. She was just diagnosed about 6 months ago which really connected the dots for all these years. I’d never heard of BPD. Since the diagnosis I feel a since of obligation to help her. My therapist is explaining to me that I can’t help her, only she can help herself. But it’s a struggle I still have. I’ve often wished she would cross that line to physical abuse. Then I feel like I’d have the excuse I need. Or if she would cheat. Either of those and I feel like the decision would be easy. Without either of those it’s hard. She too will kick into charming mode and it makes me feel guilty for even thinking about leaving. Then she will lash out again. It’s an endless cycle. I still don’t have the answers but this board is helpful to me to just read stories that sounds just like mine. Sometimes it’s just nice to know you’re not the only one.
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 01:19:07 AM »

Hmm, I’m interested to see how you would feel if you altered your story slightly. How would you advise this daughter if she had all the things you describe, but instead of being physically abusive, her husband rages, accuses, manipulates, argues, splits black, and engages in multiple hour circular conversations that are driving her to the brink of her very sanity?

I agree that the lines become much clearer where physical abuse is concerned, but as most of you guys know, I experienced the emotional smorgasbord in addition to the physical assault and quite frankly I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the emotional abuse is going to be much harder to recover from.

I suppose one could argue that the tools can provide a kind of armor that can make things somewhat more tolerable, but I’m not certain that I could look into the eyes of one of my children and advise them to settle for “I’m not getting any emotional satisfaction here (and am probably suffering a tremendous amount emotionally to boot) but at least my bills are paid.”

It’s interesting to frame the question that way. I know for myself I have a much harder time tolerating BS on behalf of my children than I do for myself. Just another thing to bring up in therapy I suppose!

Lala
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 05:37:21 AM »

What would you do?   

Hi SamwizeGamgee,

I would make sure that she understood that abuse, verbal, emotional, physical, whatever type of abuse, does not stay static.

The people who specialize and are most knowledgeable in abuse situations will tell you that once that line has been crossed, once the inhibition has been broken, once the sense of restraint has been broken by the abuser it will break again, easier, quicker and likely with more intensity.

We have all read and heard the news stories about victims who have been killed by their abusers.    And we wonder how could it have gotten that bad.   The answer is most often that there has been a long drawn out downward spiral,  a history of slowly escalating abuse.   The abuser is more emboldened, the abuse has become normalized, and like Lala said the victim weakens and begins to identify with the abuser.

So, in your story if last time he hit her and broke her cheekbone,  the next time will likely be worse.

  But, if abuse is abuse, how and why do we stay? 

The experts tell us it's very hard to leave an abusive relationship because of the imbalance of power and control in the relationship.   Usually, at some level the victim believes the abuse is 'normal', there is low self esteem, and embarrassment and shame, there is denial.    Those might be subconscious feelings, not well articulated but they are there.

The statistic is "on average, a woman will leave an abusive relationship seven times before she leaves for good."


that's from this link:

www.thehotline.org/2013/06/10/50-obstacles-to-leaving-1-10/

'ducks
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 07:58:16 AM »

Hey Sam, I think we can all agree that no one on the outside has any conception of what it's like, behind closed doors, on the inside of a BPD r/s.  It's just so far out of the realm of what others have experienced.  To me, it's irrelevant that others might think you crazy for leaving or that reasonable people might advise you to stay, because they don't know what it's really like.  You're the Captain of your Ship, not them, and you have to call the shots for your own life.

LJ

This ^^

And to take it one step further, attempts to explain the dynamics often just make you look like the crazy one.  Because what you describe is from another world/planet.

I think you have to get your own sense of self back, and self confidence.  Which means taking care of yourself and maintaining a strong support network.  Then make your own decisions, based on the knowledge of your own reality.

As for emotional vs physical abuse - both are destructive.  And with either, you really have to ask yourself, WHY?  (it will continue until the abused draws the line to stop it.  No sooner, no later)
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 08:18:53 AM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Babyducks - I was using a female victim and physical abuse in my example since those are the most readily available examples to the common person.  A male being emotionally abused by a woman in a long term marriage is one of those things that I am going to put in the category of "unless you know you don't know."  A wife verbally and emotionally abusing her husband still makes into the comedy section of popular media.
I was thinking about your comment that it gets worse once some lines are crossed.  It made me think now, whether I have emotionally died in the abuse already. 

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Yeeter - you called it.  Back a while ago when I was really hurting, and looking for lawyers, friends, etc. I finally got to the point in my mind that I figured I might as well say I'm wanting a divorce because my wife doesn't like meatloaf.  Fortunately, I have decided that this point forward I'll just sum it up to "irreconcilable differences."

But so true - I'm learning the only voice that matters is mine.  And in this matter, the only feelings I can count are my own.  It sounds horribly selfish still.  But, when I'm healthy, I'm a good person - and therefore not a selfish thing to think. 
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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 08:24:50 AM »

Addendum to Babyducks.  If I recall correctly, in his book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" Dr. Robert Glover estimates a "nice guy" leaves a bad partner nine times before is sticks.
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2017, 10:49:51 AM »

Dr. Robert Glover estimates a "nice guy" leaves a bad partner nine times before is sticks.

The way I view this is that I'm trying to gather as much knowledge and advice as I can, so the first time is the only time. That is your best chance to get it right, when it's on your terms. It seems to me like you are doing the same thing by being so methodical in your thinking.

I love the Shawshank Redemption, and I've really started using the visual of slowly chipping away at the wall and moving the pebbles into the courtyard. That's what all of the reading and mental preparation feels like to me.

"Get busy living, or get busy dying."

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SamwizeGamgee
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2017, 10:59:20 AM »

Great motivation.  Get busy living or get busy dying. 
No matter when or if we go, I have decided it has to be on my terms, my decision, and my time.  Waiting for her to divorce me, or get abducted by aliens, or the kids to finally get older and move out, is not the way I want it to go. Although a hard choice now, I want to own it. It will be better in the long run.
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2017, 11:12:09 AM »

Great motivation.  Get busy living or get busy dying. 
No matter when or if we go, I have decided it has to be on my terms, my decision, and my time.  Waiting for her to divorce me, or get abducted by aliens, or the kids to finally get older and move out, is not the way I want it to go. Although a hard choice now, I want to own it. It will be better in the long run.

@Sam, .I heard these lyrics in a song this morning on the radio... .I will share... .

"What has happened to it all? Crazy, some´d say, Where is the life that I recognize? Gone away, .But I won´t cry for yesterday, There´s an ordinary world, Somehow I have to find, And as I try to make my way, To the ordinary world, I will learn to survive!

v/r Red5
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2017, 03:45:18 PM »

Life is crazy... .i am of the belief that it takes us where we need to be.

But I agree that taking back your life, i.e. taking back your ship, is of utmost importance. I agree that each person is different and each person has their own breaking points. I’m not sure that we know what they are before we discover them after having experienced them.

I’m almost 2m and 110kg. My much smaller BPDw has given me innumerable physical encounters, 3 black eyes, broken cell phones, broken computers, broken everything! Every time I said never again, I will leave. Every time I would find a reason to not to: I don’t want to call the police and make a scene in front of our children and our small town, I don’t want her to go to jail, I can find a way to make it better... .

The fact is that, unfortunately, for some reason, all of this was necessary for me to wake up, understand myself, my issues, and become stronger. Everyone’s breaking point is different, mine was the umpteenth time of watching my children suffer and it finally clicking in my head that I needed to make a move or else they will continue to suffer. Without retaking control of my ship then I will never be able to be the father I want to be or demonstrate to them the correct model they need to be strong and hopefully avoid the relationship I got myself into.

I’ve recently been reminded many times by how short life really is... .how do we want to live the rest of our limited time we have here? I, for one, want to be happy and enjoy every minute. No regrets, no hard feelings... .it is all part of the process. We must speak from the heart and have faith in what we feel.

LAT
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2017, 10:33:14 PM »

To obtain your freedom, when you finally get to this phase, I think it’s necessary to embrace the “I’m OK with everyone thinking I’m an a*hole” step.

I discovered that my ex was trashtalking me all over town, when I was in a woman’s group and another member put two and two together.

She had gotten to know me from our group, then suddenly realized that I was that “evil woman” that had been described to her by my ex and his new girlfriend. She looked at me and said, “I’m going to have to reconsider everything I’ve heard about you.”

Some months later she told me that he was trashtalking his girlfriend, her friend.

So, yes, this happens and there’s nothing you can do about it, other than accept that your pwBPD will have quite an interesting narrative to share with others.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2017, 08:29:11 AM »

I'm there.  I have started to look at life with these ideas:
If I'm always feeling my feelings, and can talk about me and my feelings - I can never be wrong again! (Liberating me from the mind-reading, projection and blame)
If I can get along well with everyone at work (even difficult personalities), work with others at church and social situations, get praised often for my work with kids and others, and I have virtually no unsolvable problems and huge relationship problems with anyone other than my wife (and now D16 who is following mom) - then I'm probably not to blame for the chaos at home.

As I think I'm moving towards divorce, aside from saying it's due to "differences," I expect to keep calm with the idea that in five years time, we'll see who's crazy.  
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« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2017, 09:52:31 AM »

Hey Sam, sounds like you are starting to be enlightened a bit and more in tune with your true self.  I can see it because it is exactly where I'm at.

I have wonderful relationships at work, my team would run through a brick wall for me, my boss gives me the hardest assignments because he trusts me.  My family is loving and caring.  Friendships (aside from the ones she's pushed me away from) are always uplifting and fun.

Its like I'm two different people.  In home/ out of home.  D16 sees it and I think its why she has chosen me to be the one that takes her to all the conventions and late night movies, or dessert runs.  She likes the out of home dad.  You say that D16 is starting to follow in your wife's footsteps, any chance you can get out more and show her the "out of home" dad?  You might be able to break through showing her the opposite of chaos.  If nothing else, time with the kids is always precious.

I hit my limit this week and finally moved temporarily to my parents second home (they're barely there) to get out of the conflict.  It was a tough decision and I went back and forth a bunch during the week, but last night I stuck to it.  Will again tonight and have an overnight with the girls there this coming Saturday.  D16 gets it that space is required right now to stop the bleeding.  D10 doesn't understand and unfortunately is blaming herself so I will say it hasn't been a picnic.

Of course this has set off all the BPD crazy making conflicting statements/threats/behavior that I'll probably post elsewhere.

My point is that this stage of waking up is so liberating.  Do what you can to hang onto this.  I was here before and allowed my wife to FOG me back into submission and its taken 6 months to get back here.  6 months of time I can't get back to work on myself and work on my relationship with the kids.  Not again. 

Even the few days I've been out have been wonderful.  Heck I even enjoyed grocery shopping to fill the house with food for the family.  We are getting a 2nd xmas tree this weekend for my temporary dwellings and I can't wait to have MY time with them.

Sorry for the long winded answer of "don't give up" you are approaching a line that needs to be crossed in order to save yourself.  Its tough but I'm along this journey with you.

-Oz
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Torched
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« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2017, 08:45:17 PM »

I have been spending all my time on the coparenting after divorce board and just slipped in here (no reason to be here really, but this caught my eye).

Let me just say that I was “you all” for a long time after coming to the realization that I had to take my life into my own hands or die a miserable husk of what I could have been.  Everything was the same.  17 years of uBPD waif abuse.  I was a strong, successful and capable man publically.  Not so at home behind closed doors.  Abused.

Let me tell you something.  If you all wait too long, two things will happen.  You will either live with regret or you will eventually do something drastic to end the relationship.  And that drastic thing could be something outside of your character.  For me it was an emotional affair that led to a physical affair.  Two things way outside my character that I regret.  I made her the victim, permanently, after eating her crap without fail for 17 years.

All this said... .no matter what... .the other side of BPD life is AWESOME.  It is awesome to be loved by someone healthy, to give all that love you are capable of and get healthy respect and love back.  To be the person you always could be, unrestricted, without FOG.

Good luck to all of you.
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« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 07:57:31 AM »

Thanks for the words Torched. I think all of us who have woken up to the abuse behind closed doors need to hear from folks who have successfully made it to the other side.

I hear you in dying with guilt or doing something drastic to get out of the r/s.

I’m 17 years into mine too. How long have you been out? 
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« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2017, 09:01:23 AM »

Divorced one year ago in January.  This decision was excruciating like everyone here.  Divorce is indeed horrible.  My kids suffered a while as well.  I’m not sure I would have divorced until the kids were grown had I sensed that they were not old enough/strong enough to handle it.  They are doing well though, and I work hard to keep them healthy and content.

It was the right decision for me though.  I had lost all respect for her when I first went to counseling alone six years ago and came to the clear realization that I was being horribly abused.  Then came the physical problems (bad case of atrial fibrillation at age 39, even though I’m very fit).  I realized I couldn’t do it anymore.  Took me five years to make the decision even when I knew it was over for me.
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« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2017, 09:38:38 AM »

Torched, wow... .this is almost exactly what happened to me, right down to the 17 years:
Excerpt
you will eventually do something drastic to end the relationship.  And that drastic thing could be something outside of your character.  For me it was an emotional affair that led to a physical affair.  Two things way outside my character that I regret.  I made her the victim, permanently, after eating her crap without fail for 17 years.

In my case it wasn't an emotional affair, just, uh, random hookups (with, uh, other men so bonus points) and to say that's way out of my character is a massive understatement. What's interesting to me in my case is my wife had an emotional and physical affair during the same time and I'm really starting to feel like she is possibly experiencing a form of manipulation and "abuse" from me as well. It's not angry rages (I only get angry at her for being angry at me ) but somehow the things I do must feel to her almost like the mirror image of what she does to me. I don't know if that makes me less hopeful (now we have two crazy people who can't see their ailments) or more hopeful (if I can change myself not to do things to manipulate her, will her symptoms dissipate?).

IDK, this is hard. Basically my wife has come to the conclusion she's being horribly abused and it's over for her. And my therapist seems to be pointing me in the same direction. I suppose it's possible we are just both horribly abusing each other and being apart is the best thing for both of us. I had identified a good couples therapist I thought could help us, but he required us both to commit to the same goal of staying together and my wife wouldn't (and still won't) do that.
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