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Author Topic: How to deal with MIL w/BPD w/covert tactics if husband doesn't SEE himself  (Read 437 times)
TDeer
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« on: January 17, 2018, 07:22:04 AM »

If MIL has BPD and husband assures wife (DIL) that he will defend her if need be, but MIL w/BPD has switched from overt tantrums to covert passive aggressive tactics, what can DIL do? Husband doesn't notice covert passive aggressive tactics, but wife(DIL) does.
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 05:54:52 PM »

Covert passive-aggression is very frustrating.  Many children of parents with BPD spend their childhood (and beyond) justifying specific behaviors and responses of that parent- overt tantrums may be hard to defend but being "stubborn", "jealous" or "dramatic" can be easier to dismiss, especially when the parent has trained them to believe that these are normal personality traits. 

Have you brought any specific incidents of passive-aggression to his attention or is it an observation that he doesn't seem to notice/react to those tactics from his mother?
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 06:08:38 PM »

Covert passive-aggression is very frustrating.  Many children of parents with BPD spend their childhood (and beyond) justifying specific behaviors and responses of that parent- overt tantrums may be hard to defend but being "stubborn", "jealous" or "dramatic" can be easier to dismiss, especially when the parent has trained them to believe that these are normal personality traits. 

Have you brought any specific incidents of passive-aggression to his attention or is it an observation that he doesn't seem to notice/react to those tactics from his mother?


Well, my husband sees the overt bad behavior and knows what to do about it. Ignore or engage, depending on the situation. He tends to ignore the cries for attention or attempts to get something else.

However, when she employs her covert passive aggressive tactics, I usually end up pointing it out to him. He typically doesn’t want to do anything active about those things, even if they really bother me, because he believes that he is giving her the attention/ reaction that she was looking for.

It would be great to train my husband to see the passive aggressive behavior himself instead. How can I do that?
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 06:58:21 PM »


Well, my husband sees the overt bad behavior and knows what to do about it. Ignore or engage, depending on the situation. He tends to ignore the cries for attention or attempts to get something else.

However, when she employs her covert passive aggressive tactics, I usually end up pointing it out to him. He typically doesn’t want to do anything active about those things, even if they really bother me, because he believes that he is giving her the attention/ reaction that she was looking for.

It would be great to train my husband to see the passive aggressive behavior himself instead. How can I do that?
 

I don't think there is a simple solution. 

From my experience, confronting a BPD parent on their poor behavior rarely (if ever) results in a positive resolution or recognition of their wrongs.  Because of this, many of us with BPD parents tend to take the path of least resistance- it may not be the best option but it can be the least emotionally draining.  It's a pick your battles mentality and since we are sometimes more resilient to passive-aggressive attacks, ignoring them results in the least amount of stress.  Alternatively, pointing out passive-aggressive behavior to a BPD can lead to explosive fights, denial, the silent treatment, etc... .meaning, more stress. 

It sounds like he may be beyond walking on eggshells though- you say that he doesn't want to reward her bad behavior by giving her the response/fight she's looking for.  If that is the case, it is probably a healthy response.

Is her negative attention typically directed at you?  If so, what have you done to stand up for yourself and how has your MIL responded?  I don't want to read in between the lines too much here but is your goal for him to recognize her covert attacks directed at you and then intervene on your behalf? 

 


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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 07:24:14 PM »

A Message from MIL. Normally my wife will not show me these messages, probably because i get upset and we argue.  These messages are always conditional.

"Hi (duaghter name), we may come to visit you next week to see you all. I totally understand it wont be comfortable for Sun in law, but its not for us either. We will get a motel and not bother you at all as long as its OK for us to see the girls. I hope this is ok x x x x"

I was very hesitant as the last time they visited the MIL made it hard for everyone and I'm her main target. Her sole purpose is to see the kids and will do anything to draw them in. We disagree on how she uses the grandchildren. Here is a toy, give me kiss. Come to the motel, I've sweets or something special for you. Kids will go crazy if we would say no, and then we say no to MIL and she storms out without saying good buy. In the early days I'd no support at all.

We decided not to let her come, but then my wife started to feel guilty. As much as don't like her visit, I can't force my wife not to let her mom come. Probably one of the first times we did not end up in a big fight, but I did pick my words very carefully. I brought up the "not bother you" bit of the message and that stopped the guilt in her and she could see the wrongness in the message.

She phoned her mom and said we're too busy and they can't come and visit. I also felt guilty that my wife made the call, but too much has gone down.

This has been going on for over 7 years, but least I'm getting more support form my wife now, but her mother still sucks her in with Money, presents, lies, how she suffers from husband's dementia(he can still drive).

What I'm working towards, is planting the seeds of what is wrong without rocking the boat. By the time I've mentioned the abuse a few times, it seems easier to talk about it.

I'm very sure if I had to pick the whole message I would've hit a reaction and my wife would not have seen what's wrong with it.

I fully understand and I hope what I do is right.
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 08:15:44 PM »

Is her negative attention typically directed at you?  If so, what have you done to stand up for yourself and how has your MIL responded?  I don't want to read in between the lines too much here but is your goal for him to recognize her covert attacks directed at you and then intervene on your behalf? 
(quoted)


I don’t stand up for myself with her anymore overtly. I choose to think through what I want and do it regardless of what she does. At least I try. I’ve also greatly limited my contact with her.

When I stood up for myself in an assertive, but not aggressive manner, it did lead to major stress all around. She tried to turn my husband against me. I had to set him straight.

I can see how being assertive can lead to chaos and stress and that may not be the right call, depending on what we want.

He insists that I need to trust him to deal with her and that he “will protect me”. He protects me from her overt behavior, but doesn’t often recognize the passive aggressive behavior.

I would like to see my husband start to recognize and maybe even point out these behaviors that MIL does himself. Then I don’t have to be the bad guy by noticing and bringing it up. That would really help. It can be very isolating the see the behaviors for what they are, but not be believed right away because he’s so used to ignoring everything.

He did say that sometimes he makes a random comment to her that is in response to something passive aggressive she did. Like, if she gave a passive aggressive gift with a “message” then he says how happy he is with the gift, etc. He says she is usually unsure of how to react and I’d like to see him do that more often, but it may lead to many more fights, which may not be worth it.

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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 07:47:22 AM »

Hi TDeer-

It is difficult to see the dysfunction in your spouse's family when they don't see it themselves. This is because even a dysfunctional family is all the child knows growing up. It is the child's "normal".

The dysfunction in my FOO is so overt there is no denying it isn't normal. In my H's family, it is not as severe but what is there is covert, and not as obvious. When we married, I knew my FOO wasn't normal but his looked completely normal to me. He also feels he had a normal childhood.

We had marital issues and at first, I assumed it had to be me, after all, I had the dysfunctional upbringing. Then I read a marriage book that made an interesting statement- we "match" our partners in some way and we tend to play out our own FOO issues in our marriages.

Well that was interesting. How could his FOO "match " mine in some ways- if not obviously, but emotionally. I could get no information from him- he didn't see any issues, but they became visible over time- as people grew up, had families and the dysfunction became more apparent. As children we are not as aware as we are as adults.

I am grateful that he let me deal with my own family. It was very difficult to break old patterns. Although it seemed obvious from the outside that I should stand up to my BPD mother and co-dependent father- and I eventually did- the cost of that was high. The drama ( Karpman)  triangle was at play. When I stood up to mother, she went into victim mode. In her world, you are either on her side or not her side. My father was put in a position to choose- her or me. He chose her. I was basically disowned. She painted me black to her FOO and they stopped speaking to me. When one member rocks the boat in a dysfunctional family there can be two choices- the member is pressured to return to the patterns, or is possibly cast out.

If your H is going to stand up to his mother, he needs to be emotionally ready for it. When you step in to encourage him to do or see what he isn't ready to see, there becomes a potential triangle- you, MIL, him. It is hard to see but do you see a role in this? I used to appeal to my father to stand up to my mother, but in a way, I was stepping on to the triangle as rescuer, inciting mom to be victim and dad to rescue her.

It was tough to see my H fall into his family patterns and assume it was normal. I wanted him to look at them- so he could work on our own marital issues but that usually backfired as he felt I was criticizing his family. I would even explain that my own family was way more dysfunctional than his, so my aim was not to be critical but to help us. He only saw it when he was ready to.

Not to point fingers,  but even if his mother is way more dysfunctional than yours, and his family appears worse, looking at your FOO and what may match his in some ways may be clues to some issues the two of you are dealing with. I know that the most effective way for me was to look at mine.



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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 09:16:57 AM »

Hi!
I want to first welcome you and I hope you find this place as helpful as I have.  I can very much relate to your feelings.  My H comes from a very dysfunctional family: we suspect that his bio sis (SIL 1) and half sis (SIL 2) and his mom have traits of BPD.  I came into the family and while we were dating things were okay.  SIL 1 was incarcerated and SIL 2 clung to me.  Phone calls, visits to my apartment, the whole works which my H (boyfriend at the time) felt was good for her.  She seemed to look up to me.  She presented as innocent and damaged from her father being missing in her life and my H took her into his place and literally took care of her... .bills, phones, furniture, bedding, clothes, food, etc. 
Then we got engaged, SIL 1 was released, and all hell broke loose.  SIL 1 did not really ever warm up to me as she presented as a very tough girl who had been through A LOT (lost her two children, extensive drug use, etc).  She found herself a boyfriend and seemed content, but a lot of the stories she would tell did not make much sense to me.  She talked of delusions of getting her kids back, having more children, etc.  She then would have major health scares like brain tumors, cancer scares, etc. 
SIL 2 started doing the exact same thing, only it was when she was with us.  We took her to the ER several times, got phone calls in the middle of night from her sobbing that her boyfriend hit her and the police were there. 
My husband didn't see it at all.  AT ALL.  To me, these were extreme cries for attention.  He "abandoned" SIL 2 and SIL 1 felt her father "abandoned" her.
We have had so many arguments about his sisters.  I felt like every time he just let their behavior go he was showing them that it does not matter and that they can treat me however they want to.  After about the 20th time of me getting upset, after me talking with his father and stepmother (his stepmom has also been the target of their rage), after me showing them literature about BPD, FINALLY I feel like he has my back.  My H's stepmother has been a source of great comfort for me and I am really not sure that my husband would believe me if she wasn't there saying "THEY DID WHAT?"  He has gotten so used to looking at behaviors and then seeing tears and saying "it's ok"
I can attest to how many times it is easier to just not say anything because of the storm that comes if you stand up to them and he gets the storm, not me.  We are currently NC with either of his sisters.  We see them at events, but I don't say much past hello.  My husband and I both don't want to be on NC, but we have no choice.  If you have a conversation with them, it is like nothing ever happened.  It is truly the hardest situation I have ever been in and would do ANYTHING to make it better.  I can't change them though and I can only do what is best for my mental health and for my relationship. 
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 06:10:12 PM »



I am grateful that he let me deal with my own family. It was very difficult to break old patterns. Although it seemed obvious from the outside that I should stand up to my BPD mother and co-dependent father- and I eventually did- the cost of that was high. The drama ( Karpman)  triangle was at play. When I stood up to mother, she went into victim mode. In her world, you are either on her side or not her side.

If your H is going to stand up to his mother, he needs to be emotionally ready for it. When you step in to encourage him to do or see what he isn't ready to see, there becomes a potential triangle- you, MIL, him. It is hard to see but do you see a role in this?
.

Not to point fingers,  but even if his mother is way more dysfunctional than yours, and his family appears worse, looking at your FOO and what may match his in some ways may be clues to some issues the two of you are dealing with. I know that the most effective way for me was to look at mine.




Are you suggesting that I am stepping into the Karpman drama triangle when MIL does something and I want my husband to respond?

We have established that I shouldn’t engage her directly... .but I guess that your conclusion is, is that nothing is better than stirring up more drama. I’ve read that doing nothing is often what breaks the triangle, because the BPD will continue to switch roles to keep drama going.

So, even if I’m reality my husband and I are victims to MIL and her petty passive aggressive actions, we step out of the triangle by doing nothing.

What if I go to lower contact and/or no contact? Is that still just stepping further out of the triangle?

Am I supposed to just do any say nothing? Not even mention when MIL is passive aggressive and mean? I’m kind of afraid that you may be right if that’s so... .

What’s the name of book that you mentioned?
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2018, 07:04:58 PM »

It's hard to see when one is stepping on the triangle but I think a clue is to look at our own feelings and actions. I can tell emotionally- it's being wound up, reactive - but the opposite is not being passive or complacent but taking action calmly for boundariesand self focus and finding yourself not bothered by her antics as much. It's hard to explain but one day when my mother said something mean to me- it didn't really bother me where once it would have. I might have taken it personally and felt hurt but this time I though " well that's a crazy thing to say" and that was all. My lack of response disempowered her. But it wasn't passively accepting being insulted.

Where you get in the triangle is when you try to get your H to stand up to her. If she pushes his buttons - this is between her and him. If she pushes yours - it's between you and her. Involving a third person to defend you or you defend him becomes a triangle.

The book is Passionate Marriage and some of the content is as steamy as the title. However in between the lines ( or sheets ) is some interesting marriage advice. I had read it and then a marriage counselor recommended it to us. My H had no interest in reading marriage books but this one got his attention. Maybe that's the best part- people will read it!

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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2018, 10:51:38 AM »

it didn't really bother me where once it would have. I might have taken it personally and felt hurt but this time I though " well that's a crazy thing to say" and that was all. My lack of response disempowered her. But it wasn't passively accepting being insulted.

Where you get in the triangle is when you try to get your H to stand up to her. If she pushes his buttons - this is between her and him. If she pushes yours - it's between you and her. Involving a third person to defend you or you defend him becomes a triangle.




So, you just eventually end up not caring that someone is saying / doing passive aggressive / mean things to you? That seems a bit too "zen" for me. How did you get to that place in your life / head / spirit? We are humans and meant to have emotion and feelings and thoughts. We are not meant to be robots.

When someone has done a lot of mean things, intentionally or otherwise, you just dismiss it and move on? It seems wise, but also unwise. It seems like you're just going to allow someone to continue to



For the idea of trying to get my husband to stick up for me, I'm not sure what else to do. If I confront her directly then she vilifies me and creates more drama.

If I do nothing, then I feel like a doormat.

If my husband does something, then it's a drama triangle... .

That brings me back to no contact.

When my husband has intervened in the past, then he actually seems to have stopped the triangle from progressing further. Then it's just between him and her.

Since I can't confront her openly and directly as I should be able to, then what? If I'm supposed to handle her myself instead (which goes against every psychologist's advice I've ever talked to) then how do I do that?

It just seems like we're going in a circle. Don't do anything because pw/BPD will create more drama. Don't stick up for yourself because that's more drama. If you do nothing it could also, at least for the short term, allow more drama because the pw/BPD sees you as an easy target. But if you have someone else step in, then it's a drama triangle. But if you do it yourself, then there's all sorts of drama and chaos.

I guess there's just no contact then. Woo hoo.
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2018, 03:40:01 PM »

It isn't the same as being a doormat, passive, or zenning out. It is being less emotionally invested in what she says or does- I can't really control it anyway. I just don't want to spend time upset about the ramblings of a person with a mental disorder. I get that she, like your MIL, is manipulative and likes to stir up drama. The less I am tempted to participate in the drama, the less she can manipulate me. The emotional "hook" is getting you, or me, upset. Then we are in it. It isn't that I don't ever get upset. It is that when I do, I think to myself- is this drama bait? if so, I don't want to bite it. Other times, it is about boundaries. If she starts an uncomfortable conversation, I try to change the subject, excuse myself or reply with boring answers- uh huh, ok, or nothing.

NC is one option, but if your H is not on board with this, it will be difficult to maintain. What I do is LC- limited contact and not just time spent but limited emotional connection too. We may have a conversation about the weather, or a movie, but not a personal one. You can also let your H visit on his own sometimes. I do that. I don't think my H enjoys being around my mother. He comes sometimes, other times, not. Same with his family.

I think there are two issues going on here. One is your MIL, and the other is your H's inability to see the craziness in his family and perhaps his less than willingness to defend you. You can confront her if you want to. The only problem is that this may not get you the results you want. I have confronted mine. Sometimes I wanted to and d*m the consequences. Her response is usually to project it back so it usually comes back at me, then gets her going to seek revenge. I don't feel I need to defend myself against her though- her main power is to stir up drama and I don't really want a part of that.

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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2018, 06:25:39 PM »

So, does it take active practice? I thought today that there’s something weird that happened at our wedding that I haven’t been able to explain. It was extremely goofy and strange. I thought it may have been one of my husband’s guy friends, which would make me laugh... .

But then I thought maybe it was my MIL. Oh well, free money. Oh well, free funny story. Oh well, goofy... .and what crazy person would do that? And she thought it would make us mad and not just laugh?

I dunno... .practice?
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2018, 06:12:45 AM »

How much of an impact does MIL have in your one on one relationship with your H and your daily lives. We live several hours drive from both of our families- which limits the visits- we can't see them a few times a week. When we do- it is often family occasions, holidays, and for short periods of time, so they are not involved on a daily or even weekly basis. If your MIL is around the corner and in your world constantly, it would be more of a challenge to have boundaries about your own life with your H.

But this is what it takes- a boundary not on her, but around you, your marriage and any children. The marriage is between you and him, not you, him, and MIL. Yes, marriage includes extended family and you can have them in your lives, but your basic relationship is with him. Part of this is to take the focus off what she is doing and turn that onto you, and your marriage.  If your anger at her is in your thoughts, then you are bringing her into your lives more than she probably deserves to be.

We don't have to speak our boundaries all the time. Several of mine were actions. One was that my mother was not alone with my children. She always visited with my father. He was her enabler, but he was also great with the kids. She was invested in being a grandma and so behaved with them. It was as they got older that she began to enlist them as her emotional caretakers and then, I became concerned- but they had good boundaries too and it felt creepy to them. I began to discuss mental health issues with them- in a non critical way and they were able to understand that my mother has a disorder - as best they could. This was important to me- I was not told this and as a teen, began to hate her. I think I would have felt more compassion if I knew it was a disorder ( she is still responsible for her actions). One thing she tried to do was to get a child one on one with her, not to be doing something illicit, but to "tell them secrets" about me. I knew at this time she was trying to do the triangle thing and have them bond with her against me. I don't think they would do this, but they had boundaries at this point and felt uncomfortable when she tried this. Then the way I kept the "don't be alone with my mother" was to have them stick together when visiting and not go off with her one one one. She knows better than to act up with people watching her- it is one on one where she feels the liberty to be manipulative. I also avoided visiting her one on one and have brought family with me, but now I can see her one on one without it bothering me too much. But I also don't see her frequently or have long visits.

Of course- it is my mother, not my MIL. I have no control over how my H handles his family. There was dysfunction in the family but it was different. His mother does not behave like mine does. But there was a common thread- his family patterns impacted our marriage and mine did too. I could only work on mine- and me.

If I could sum this up in one piece of advice, I'd say- look in the mirror. That is pretty tough. When I found that something or someone really got me angry, it was a clue to something about me- I may not know why, but it could have been a childhood thing, a FOO pattern, my own boundaries. What are your unspoken family rules? Once we were late getting to my in laws house- the kids were out of sorts, and my H got really angry- out of proportion to what was happening. It was all kinds of things- one he was the golden child and not expected to be anything less than perfect- and we were late. His father would likely be critical of him for that, not think he was a good parent and all this garbage that was making meaning out of a simple issue- the kids were out of sorts and we were late. None of this had anything to do with the facts. But the feelings were there. What kind of meaning are you making out of MIL's behavior?

What idea of how things should be are you bringing into your marriage? Both people bring this sense of how things should be to a marriage- no matter what FOO they came from. Our parents were the role models for this. But we can also be opposite them and get it wrong. I didn't want to be like my mother, but I was co-dependent. Your H may not want to act like his father- but not know how to act differently. Or, like my H- he thought the model of a man was his father- and his father was a good man in many ways but also critical of any small slight- and my H brought that into marriage.

The more you can bring emotionally healthy behaviors into your marriage, the more your MIL will appear disordered.

Practice? Yes, but for me, also counseling and 12 step co-dependency groups. I did a lot of work and more personal work than my H- because as far as he was concerned there was nothing wrong with his FOO, but the personal work I did benefited me with all my relationships. I don't know what your path will be,  but it does help to work on your own reactions to MIL and also keep her influence to a minimum if you can.

It is also not linear but a work in progress. Can my mother still push my buttons? Sometimes,  but less often. Do I have no issues in my marriage. No, but less often or handled better. Do I backtrack? Yes -but it is a work in progress and there is progress.





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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2018, 08:19:39 AM »

Think of what irks you when your H doesn't see it and doesn't stand up for you. You feel he should see it and that he should stand up for you.

The issues in my H's FOO were more around co-dependency, looking good on the outside while hiding things, covert and passive aggressive manipulation. But his parents were overall good parents and his mother was very caring ( and co-dependent ). This was a contrast to my mother who is not a caring mother.

The ringleader in his FOO is his sister, who has manipulated members of the family. She doesn't have BPD, she is just a manipulative person and while I think my H should not let her do this, he does. On one hand, it isn't often, and also he doesn't want to make waves in his FOO.

It would not have irked me to see him comply with his sister if her were not so oppositional with me. I think this was displaced powerless. He didn't want to rock the boat in his FOO, and his father, the tough man of the house- was a bit scary. So instead of asserting himself with his FOO- he took on the tough man of the house- critical persona with me- while being (IMHO overly) compliant with his FOO. Now that irked me.

My part was to not put up with the way he was treating me. I was prone to enabling because of the fear based way I was raised. That was what I had to work on. It also took some grace and compassion. My father didn't stand up to my mother either, but he lived with her 24/7 and I didn't. That had to be tough. So would dealing with the wrath of my FIL for rocking the family boat. It would have been my father, and my H, to pay the price of dealing with it.

I also paid a high price for standing up to my mother, but to me, the cost of appeasing her was higher. This was not an easy thing to do. It disrupted my relationship with my father and my mother's FOO does not speak to me. One one hand, I could say who needs these relatives who would do that, but it includes cousins I grew up with and who I miss. You may want your H to stand up for you, but it is him who will then have to deal with the reaction, possibly being disowned and cut off from family. If you think your MIL is behaving badly when everyone is WOE - just imagine how she is if someone does not. Focusing on building your bond with your H is good insulation from his FOO drama.

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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2018, 08:44:55 PM »

I discussed the idea that there’s something wrong with me or that I need to work on within myself with my husband. He also didn’t think that made sense in terms of whether my MIL bothers me or not.

I think that sounds like you’re telling someone that there’s a bully and that you shouldn’t care that they’re bullying you. Or that my parents screwed up so that means my MIL bothers me. Again, doesn’t hold water. I’ve been down that route before with a job where there was a hard core bully and the psychologist I was seeing told me about solar flares and their impact on empathetic people as well as the fact that due to my parents’ mistakes is why the bully at the job was bothering me... .

If someone is a bully, they’re just a bully. It’s not because of my parents. It’s not my fault someone else is choosing to hurt others or that they hurt me sometimes.

I am still very curious as to how it worked out with your FIL. You chose to start standing up to him... .then what?

My husband and I also have an understanding that we can disagree on things as well. That I deal with my family and he deals with his. That said, I don’t always love that as I’d prefer to just tell his mother what I want to, but his protection goes to help me calm down and decide eventually whether it made sense to open fire (metaphorically) on her or not... .so I might hate it each time at first, but through this BPD board conversation, it’s helping me look at some things again from a perspective of “wow, that thing she did really is just downright nuts”. That is finally helping somewhat.

So, yes, I did marry my husband because he will go “toe to toe” with me when needed, but he also will works toward reasonable and peaceful decisions too. I don’t always love it when he won’t step into action when I want him to, but I suppose it’s a good balance and we help each other when we each have our hot headed moments. Or longer periods of time... .

I guess I am starting to see sometimes where MIL has done things that were hurtful, but I can see now just how odd they were from a more “wise mind” type of perspective. It’s not normal or practical to do a lot of the things she’s done.

So, my husband tries not to see the passive aggressive behavior, but maybe he just learned not to see it. I’d still like him to see it himself so that he could say it when he sees it and then I wouldn’t have to feel like the bad guy. I guess I just have to say oh well or push through and explain it to him anyway because there doesn’t seem to be any other answers.
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TDeer
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2018, 11:21:44 AM »

I did want to add, that I didn’t intend any disrespect or anything. I’m very sorry if anything communicated disrespect or came off that way.
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2018, 12:39:29 PM »

Hi Tdeer,

It sounds like you have a real job on your hands managing this situation. I wish you all the best in managing your MIL. 

Family dynamics can be challenging at the best of times. Add BPD and there is scope for all sorts of drama. I have a few reference points from my limited experience which I would like to share. You're not alone and it's OK to battle with this.

Whilst still married to my ex, I was very involved in trying to manage her BPD mom and dysfunctional N dad, as well as the wider family. I sat with my therapist one day explaning all that i was doing. She listened carefully, let me finish and eventually said "Arent you exhausted? I think you're too involved with this. Why are you doing it?"

She helped me see the rescuer role I was playing in the drama triangle. And the key from then on when i was triggered, was to ask myself the question. "From which role will I respond? Victim, Rescuer, Persecutor or Healthy adult"

It became much easier to walk away when I needed to, defend a boundary when I needed to or just play "grey rock" when I needed to. They were conscious responses from as healthy a place as possible. Did I still make mistakes? Of course. But overall I removed myself from the drama because I chose not to participate.

Handling bullies is an artform on its own but by far the best strategy for dealing with much of the scapegoating and manipulation is to build up our own self esteem. It's very difficult for someone to take advantage if we have a strong and resilient self esteem.

The games people play become amusing instead of hurtful over time because we are comfortable within ourselves, needing less and less external validation as we embark on healthy self love and respect
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Notwendy
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 01:18:12 PM »

T Deer- I think the message was lost. If someone is a bully, they are a bully. One can deal with a bully. It becomes an issue when that bully is related to your H, and you are married to your H, and he is not willing to disconnect or take on that bully. Yes, you can take on the bully, and you can even cut off contact with the bully- but you still have your marriage and how do you manage that.

The bully in my FOO is my mother.  If we were not related, I would not have contact with that woman and if she did act cruelly to me, I would take up for myself. So what is the problem- well she was connected to my father, my siblings and to not ever see her again might also mean not seeing them. To defend myself and put her in her place had consequences to relationships with other family members.

My aim was to take on the task of minimizing her impact on me without breaking contact with my father. That was an option but I didn't choose it.

My H is not going to disconnect with his FOO and I choose to stay married.

So what do I do- the one thing I can control is my own responses. That doesn't mean allowing the bully to hurt me, but whether I like it or not the bully is going to do whatever the bully wants and I can not control her. I also can't control whether my H sees his FOO like I see them and I don't know how to advise someone to get their H to "see " things their way too. The honest truth is that we can't control other people.


I don't think there is anything particularly "wrong " with me even though I did grow up with some dysfunction and so did my H but we are not unstable people. However, I am willing to look at my own relationship skills and see where there is improvement. I do know from dealing with a BPD parent and family dysfunction for a long time that willingness to look in the mirror can be more effective than the I am right, she is wrong perspective.
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 01:53:32 PM »

T Deer- I think the message was lost. If someone is a bully, they are a bully. One can deal with a bully. It becomes an issue when that bully is related to your H, and you are married to your H, and he is not willing to disconnect or take on that bully. Yes, you can take on the bully, and you can even cut off contact with the bully- but you still have your marriage and how do you manage that.

The bully in my FOO is my mother.  If we were not related, I would not have contact with that woman and if she did act cruelly to me, I would take up for myself. So what is the problem- well she was connected to my father, my siblings and to not ever see her again might also mean not seeing them. To defend myself and put her in her place had consequences to relationships with other family members.

My aim was to take on the task of minimizing her impact on me without breaking contact with my father. That was an option but I didn't choose it.

My H is not going to disconnect with his FOO and I choose to stay married.

So what do I do- the one thing I can control is my own responses. That doesn't mean allowing the bully to hurt me, but whether I like it or not the bully is going to do whatever the bully wants and I can not control her. I also can't control whether my H sees his FOO like I see them and I don't know how to advise someone to get their H to "see " things their way too. The honest truth is that we can't control other people.


I don't think there is anything particularly "wrong " with me even though I did grow up with some dysfunction and so did my H but we are not unstable people. However, I am willing to look at my own relationship skills and see where there is improvement. I do know from dealing with a BPD parent and family dysfunction for a long time that willingness to look in the mirror can be more effective than the I am right, she is wrong perspective.


You hit all of the nails on the head. You’re 100% right. Like I said, I apologize if anything came off disrespectful to someone trying to help me out.

I understand now. That was a wonderful explanation in a way that I needed to hear it.

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Notwendy
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2018, 03:51:39 PM »

It's OK, I understand your frustration. I loved my father ( he is deceased now) and he was connected to my mother, who is really difficult. I assume you and your H will have a long happy marriage and as long as he is connected to his mother, that connection will be there. So it's a bit like making lemonade out of really sour lemons. But I hope your fortress against her will be being happy yourself, and  a really happy marriage and life together with your H.

Other posters here have gone NC with the pwBPD and hopefully will share their perspective.
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