Looking for guidance on how to handle a problem

[KittyGirl]

Hi all.  I'll be introducing myself shortly as I literally just joined but wanted to get this post up.  My 24 yr old D has BPD.  I am working on setting limits, etc.  Last night she was angry and threw her phone, screen is now shattered.  She demanded I pay for a new $500 phone, and I a) don't have the money for it and b) even if I did I don't believe I should have to pay for it as she was the one who threw it.  She is not working so she has no money; her boyfriend or I pay for pretty much everything including her bills.  She left home last night to go to her boyfriend's place and they are going to store tomorrow.  I'm expecting to get a call or have her come back home demanding the money, and I need to / want to stand my ground and say No.  But I know this will cause an explosion.  Yet I feel she needs to understand there are consequences to her actions.  What is the best way to say No without calling out the border-lion?  Thanks so much for any advice.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Skip]

I suggest that you get on her emotional side of how she really needs a phone and its really unfortunate that it is broken.

When she say she needs money for a phone, you should be short and simple with "It's not my responsibility to pay for things you break in anger".

She will press it.

Tell her you don't anymore to say.

The key thing is to be matter or fact, firm, and do not JADE, and don't give her a third graders speech on "responsibility".

Just no.

[Lollypop]

Welcome Kittygirl

I just wanted to quickly reach out to you.

My adult son returned home at 24 and wouldn’t take responsibility for himself. I know what you mean about dancing around to avoid the conflict. He was anxious, depressed and not functioning. I got to work here on this forum, reading and practising new ways of interacting, better boundaries. I stopped giving him money. It was a challenge but we’ve both learnt that he can do things for himself and problem solve. The only way he learns is through feeling the consequences of his actions. He’s now living independently and we get on a lot better. There’s hope!

You’ve got it tough and I’m glad you’re here. I’d love to know how it goes with the phone drama.

Baby steps. Welcome  

Hugs
LP

[KittyGirl]

Thanks for the quick advice ... I was not asked for the money (a huge surprise)... at least not yet, and I will not be giving any money to her.  I certainly will be doing a ton more reading here, and I am working on allowing her to 'feel the consequences of her actions'.  I am seeing that this will be a multi-prong approach ... I need help as much as she does because all we do is circle around and around.  Hope is all I have right now... that things will get better and that she will become independent and that I can stand firm.

On another note ... the low-grade rage was brought on because her ex-BF called me to ask that I check in on her, that she told him she was cutting (long history of SI), etc.  So I went to check on her.  That was the trigger.  Is it better for me to just leave her be, as I did before (if she SI'd she was responsible for her wound care, and sometimes she would tell me other times would not)  I feel caught between them (he has the hallmarks of narcissistic PD, hence the volatility in their 'relationship' and when things get rough it sometimes ends up with a call to 911.  Not sure if this is that "triangulation" I've been reading about or enmeshment in her life.

Thanks again ...

[JustYouWait]

On another note ... the low-grade rage was brought on because her ex-BF called me to ask that I check in on her, that she told him she was cutting (long history of SI), etc.  So I went to check on her.  That was the trigger.  Is it better for me to just leave her be, as I did before (if she SI'd she was responsible for her wound care, and sometimes she would tell me other times would not)  I feel caught between them (he has the hallmarks of narcissistic PD, hence the volatility in their 'relationship' and when things get rough it sometimes ends up with a call to 911.  Not sure if this is that "triangulation" I've been reading about or enmeshment in her life.

Thanks again ...

Yeah, her ex-boyfriend is either manipulating her through you, or truly cares.  I can't tell you which it is, because one makes him dangerous for someone with BPD, and the other is very much what someone with BPD needs.

Self-injury is the worst part of the disease for me.  The scars, the cuts, the blood, the stitches, the need to do it at all. 

I feel for you, and you're not alone, especially here.

[wendydarling]

Hi KittyGirl

Welcome to the community.

I understand your confusion right, we parents here landed just like you, you are not alone as JYW says  , been there with my own personal situation with 29DD 2015/16.  We work through gently as Lollypop says to get where we need to be  

Can you share your daughter's SI, self harm history, how she's engaged with hospital admissions, any diagnosis, treatment offered so far? I ask this as that is what DBT specialists focus on first from my experience.

WDx

[KittyGirl]

"Can you share your daughter's SI, self harm history, how she's engaged with hospital admissions, any diagnosis, treatment offered so far?"

Sure ... nutshell version. SI started at age 13.  Both her and her older sister (who suffers from depression) SI'd.  Younger D did quantity (easily 100 cuts on each arm, other body parts, but never needed stitches/staples), older D did quality (only a few cuts but always required staples).  Depression and suicide run in my family (my maternal grandfather is closest relative to SU but there have been others, and my mother has suffered from depression most of her life), and alcoholism/depression/suicide on my ex-husband's side.  Her first (and only) hospital stay was in 8th grade, after she had a psychotic break.  She finished 8th grade being tutored at home.  After she got out of the CDU (only one week) her SI escalated.  We started DBT, she was diagnosed as having major depressive disorder.  Meds were a challenge, but finally they got the right mix.  She did get through HS with some challenges, went away to college and graduated.  We worked hard to keep her safe, only once was she taken to ER while in college.  She came home, seemed to be doing ok, then got involved with her now ex-BF (but they are still 'together', and I swear that's when things really got bad.  Last year was the worst year ever with for/for her.  I was thinking this was more than depression, finally I was told by her therapist that she had been re-diagnosed as BPD.  New meds are being tried.  She continues with DBT, did change to a new therapist (same DBT center just a different therapist).  Also sees the psychiatrist there for med management.  I went to one meeting with her, at her request.  It was a bit of a fiasco.  But it showed me that we need a mediator for any kind of serious discussion.  I have asked for family therapy sessions, she is reluctant.  So I'm doing the best I can, hoping she'll finally agree. 

[KittyGirl]

And another night of breaking things ... so what do you all do when someone is breaking stuff that they cannot afford to replace?  Tonight it was our telephone (two handsets for our landline ... I did get one working but the back is missing) and she did tell me that she broke her laptop (this will, I presume, be another issue like her cell phone ... sorry kiddo, you broke it, I am not replacing it). a   She got into another fight with her xBF, and she SI'd and send him a video   I think I really need another therapist, one that specializes in DBT and BPD as my therapist does not, and she's working to help me ... any advice?  I feel so lost ... even after all this time.  It was almost easier when she was a minor. Thank you

[Lollypop]

Hi kitty

I’m not the one to give advice on therapy. My DS27 has had the odd period when he’s tried to seek help but it never worked out and he has a negative view of medical professionals now.

I can say though that his improvements in behaviour came when I started to focus entirely on our relationship rather than the problems. I figured that whatever happened in his life he was going to need somebody he could reach to for emotional support. Our relationship had failed, we were tense and he didn’t feel safe with me because I was negative with him and he felt it was criticism. In fact I was critical of him - this was pre diagnosis.

I got myself a simple plan of three things I wanted to achieve:
1. Improve my relationship with my son
2. Support him to learn financial management skills
3. For him to live independently at some point

These three things helped me stay focussed and not sweat the small stuff.

Treating him as an adult, placing responsibility for himself to him, while I emotionally supported him as he learnt by making his own mistakes. I got myself out of his dramas and started to live my own life, demonstrating self care. I got to be light as a fairy - tons of validation!

The communication skills I learnt here were key. It can be done, it takes time and there are no quick fixes.

You love your daughter very much and it’s fantastic you’re doing your reading and setting some boundaries. She needs you that’s for sure. You’re right - if something’s not working then a change of approach is Needed. The whole bf gf dramas just complicate everything!

What support do you have?
What does your daughter feel about her treatment ?

Hugs

LP

[KittyGirl]

Thanks Lollypop ...

What support do I have?  Well ...
My best friend is 4.5 hrs away, but we talk a lot. 
Another close friend whose daughter was in DBT with us (also BPD) is a good sounding board but lives 2 hrs away.
I have a couple of other friends who I can talk to, but they don't really understand - either they don't have kids, or their kids don't have a mental health issue.
I'm a single/divorced mom (20 years now) and dad has been out of the picture for most of this time (plus he's an alcoholic with more issues than I can shake a stick at and has no relationship with our daughters), so no help there.
I finally got myself into therapy last fall.  Between Mom, Daughter, work, and everything else, I'm overwhelmed.
Books.
And now this forum. 

What does my daughter feel about her treatment?
I know she wanted/needed to change therapists, she recognized it was no longer working, so to me that's a sign she has a good feeling about therapy.  Therapy is helpful, they've recently upped it to 2x/wk.  She will sometimes be a no-show, for whatever reason she decides to not go.  But when she does go, which really is most of the time now, she gets a lot out of it.  She also understands she needs meds but sometimes just decides to stop.  She knows what this does to her, and we've discussed that she cannot do this anymore.  As far as I know she is now being compliant.  But I never know when she decides to stop taking her meds until she's off the rails for no apparent reason, then I find out she off her meds.
So overall, I think she is okay with her treatment.

Thanks ...

[Lollypop]

Hi kitty

Mom, Daughter, work, and everything else, I'm overwhelmed.
Books.
And now this forum. 

Be gentle with yourself. There’s no rush. I remember that feeling myself. It will get better, inch yourself forwards. I’m so glad you’ve got some support in place. My friends just couldn’t get it - it can be lonely. I’m glad you’re here.

All iur situations are unique, take what you want from our stories, try out the bits that feel right for you. One baby step at a time my friend.

LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders