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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: I still love this crack pot. I still care about her. This is my problem, right?  (Read 538 times)
Seenowayout
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« on: January 11, 2018, 04:00:36 PM »

I haven't seen her for nine months.  The relationship ended when my brain took over and saw how bad she was for me, and by extension my family, job and friends.  I saw that I should no longer take the constant scolding, shaming, running away, and damage she was doing to me -- and by extension my family, job and friends.  So I passively aggressively hurt her, by spending time with a girl friend, seeking advice regarding this crazy relationship where everything I did seemed to be wrong.  You see, I wasn't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex, so I lied to her about where I was and what I was doing.  Just a couple of visits and text conversations.  All about my BPD.  No cheating, just someone who was helping me make sense of her behavior.    Anyway, when I came clean, BPD really blew up, hit me, spit in my face, broke every dish and bulb in my house, and flew away never to be seen again.

I mourned huge.  For a long time.  It was devastating.  It's all on here in older posts.  Never been so lost in my whole life.  And then I started healing.  I had a kick ass year with my businesses.  I fell in love again.  I'm in a great relationship.  Friends and family are back.  But BPD is always in my mind.  Always buzzing underneath it all.

There have been little bits of contact.  She texted me the picture of her new bf soon after our break up.   A big ex convict - - as opposite from me as you can get.  She occasionally called me, usually when she was drunk, usually to make me feel bad.

Well last week she called and texted a lot.

Seems she was contemplating breaking up with my replacement.  She said he wants to marry her, but she's not ready to let herself be hurt again, the way I hurt her.  She says she loves him, but he is afraid to be all in again.  After what I did to her.  She's not sure she can rely on another man to not hurt her.

He wants to drive trucks around the country and take her with him.  I said, how can he hurt you if you're with him all the time?  Isn't that what you want?  It's not fair for you to blame me on the demise of this relationship.

Then from another source I find out that actually, the guy's broke.  He's lazy.  He doesn't work.  He couldn't afford to buy her a Christmas present.  They live in the house I helped buy for her, and he sits around and watches TV all day.  She threw him out.  And if she married him her family would freak.  She spent the last 3 days before she called me on a total bender.  I shudder to think with who and what happened.  He can't drive trucks around the country -- it will take him a year to get the paperwork together.  He might get a local trucking job so she stays with him.  And she'll go back to work.  

After I found this out I kept it to myself, but she texts me and tells me she can't text me anymore.  She's going to try to be with him for another month.  See if they can make it work.  Maybe after that then she can text me again she says.  She says I'm so good for always being there for her.  She never loved anyone as much as she loved me she says.

She thought about me every day she says.  The woman who cut me out, left me completely, took up another man, would not return my phone calls, threatened me, -- says she thought about me every day and missed me terribly.  And when I asked her how was I supposed to know that she says -- because you know me.

And now the buzzing in my brain gets louder and louder.

What is this madness?

1.)  Why is she lying to me so blatantly?
2.)  :)oes she believe these lies?
3.)  If she truly loved me, real love, wouldn't she forgive me and try to understand her role.  She never once admitted any of her behavior might have resulted in this.
4.)  I must admit, I was a little manipulative in these recent exchanges , because I was curious.  As long as I was complimentary, she was responsive.  If I was critical at all or asked any kind of sensible questions (why do you blame me for your feelings in this new relationship) -- she got nasty.
5.)  She was still able to press my buttons.  I never get angry, but a few words from her and I went off.

Most of all --

WHY DO I FEEL GUILTY?  WHY IS THIS BUZZING GROWING LOUDER AGAIN?

It is really right out of the BPD playbook.  The shaming, scolding -- and now the recycle.

There's no way i would go back.  She literally grosses me out at this point.  And I have a wonderful woman who genuinely loves me, real love, and who I love back.

But I still love this crack pot too. I still care about her.  I still worry about her.

This is my problem, right?  it's not her, it's me.  It is an addiction.  No contact.  Works.

I don't know if I'm looking for advice or I just needed to get this off my chest.  But I literally feel that madness coming back after talking to her.  

Therapy so far hasn't worked.  One T made me picture throwing her off a cliff and describing her dead body.  That was creepy and totally not me.  The other tells me she's clearly BPD and I need to move on, there's no hope for her.  Both answers are useless to me.

The problem is me.  Why do I feel this need still to rescue her.  To have her approval.  

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Turkish
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 10:45:20 PM »

What do you feel is unresolved that you need to listen to her anymore?

My ex reengaged with me,  after a fashion,  after everything I told her would happen with the guy she left me for happened.  If I were to guess,  she knew I was safe for her,  because she could never tell her family and friends (who encouraged her to leave me).

Part of this might be she still wanting to hurt you given her perceptions.  Part of it might be that you are safe to tell these things to.  What do you think?
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2018, 06:05:58 AM »

Good question Turkish.  Unresolved issues --

1.)  Guilt for ending it the way I did.  She never forgave me for things I never even did, she'll never forgive me for actually lying to her.  And I carry that guilt of not being forgiven, and being blamed for all her present future and past reckless behavior.  As ridiculous as that sounds. How wonderful it would be if she said "in my deepest heart I know I drove you to lying to me, and I wish I had the ability to forgive you, and you are in no way responsible for the mess my life is now". 

2.)  Love.  I want to show her a higher way.  I want to be larger than anything she's known and show her I can still listen to whatever craziness she has to say, take it, and support her.

I've been reading about METTA and loving kindness meditations.  I'm wrestling with the idea of loving myself first.  Here I am trying to fix her still, love her still, carry her cross for her still -- and that buzzing in my head grows because it's too heavy for me to carry, and I'm hurting myself by trying.  But that's how I've always been, starting with my mom when I was very little, taking the blame, trying to be stronger, trying to spread some sunshine.  Hard habits die hard.

If I loved myself first, I would never even have engaged with her in the first place.  It's not that I don't like myself, I just for some reason pay myself last?  That's what Christians do, yeah?

It's all so confusing.
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 06:17:58 AM »

Rereading that it sounds so pathetic.  I'm not a saint.  By any means.  I am a selfish man too.  That's why I'm in this mess.  But I think I'm getting close to the end of this madness.  The answer lies somewhere in that self love.  If I had real love, I would see what she is doing to me, and by extension all of the rest of my people and my work, and I would let it go because the bigger gain is with everyone else.  But to let it go is so hard.  I love her for some insane reason. I feel responsible.
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Jeffree
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 08:13:36 AM »

Seen,

Sorry for the difficulty you're having coming to terms with this scenario and your role in it.

From the sounds of it, this situation with your exBPD is tapping into something deeper within you, perhaps your history with a more significant caregiver from your past.

Is there anyone else you have truly wished to save, but couldn't, and now your BPD is the next best thing to "fix?"

You're not pathetic. It happens. We get flummoxed by someone, and if they are a bad person and tap into some kind of deep unresolved psychological dynamic of ours, we can be powerless against it's charms.

J
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 08:55:53 AM »

J,

As cliche as it sounds, I really see my mom in all this.  I have a big family, I was the oldest.  My mom was abused as a child, and as a young mom she was constantly depressed, slamming doors, scolding, we walked on eggshells, unfaithful to my father, I tried to make her happy ... .

So obvious right?

My wife, who I left for this BPD, even said BPD looked like my mom when she saw a picture of her -- same jewelry, same clothing that was too young for her, same body type ... .  My wife said she remembered I told her I married her because she was no drama, unlike my mother.  My wife never understood why I left her for all this drama.

I never saw any of this what so ever until it ended.  And after I did a lot of soul searching.

My BPD used to say I had Mommy issues when she got mad at me.  But by that she meant that I was an unfaithful person like my mom was.  But mother of ironies, I think my very relationship with her was BECAUSE i still had mommy issues.  I just didn't know it.

But my mom is "ok" now.  There are triggers, like the Holidays, when she does her little power plays.  But she is loving and loyal and I think somewhat regretful of how she behaved earlier, if not in denial.  I never heard an apology.

But I guess it is so deeply ingrained in me.  Incredibly annoying.  

the rumination is maddening.  I get the no contact thing.  it opens up pandoras box all over again.

I'm not that strong.

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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2018, 09:54:08 AM »

Your mom might be OK, but that doesn't mean you do not still suffer from the effects of her parenting from when she wasn't OK.

It's very hard to process the past while moving forward in the present at the same time, but that's how life is.

You're strong. You survived what you did growing up. You'll make it through this, too. Just be gentle to yourself and always do your best.

J
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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 04:53:50 AM »

Dear Seenowayout-

Hi there... .I'm sorry that you're still hurting deeply and suffering from so much confusion.  It may be a good idea for you to re-read your old posts and revisit what you went through in the relationship and break-up with your ex-BPD GF.  I recall how devastating this experience was for you.  On top of your heart loss, you had other relationships to rebuild, along with overseeing your businesses.

I could be completely wrong, but perhaps you didn't fully mourn the loss or truly heal and detach prior to entering your new relationship.  Is it possible that these factors may be contributing to your current level of internal emotional conflict?

Dear Seenowayout-  I really care about your wellbeing.  I don't like to say this, but through this contact with your ex-BPD GF, I feel that you're heightening your pain, opening your wounds, and potentially jeopardizing/sabotaging your new relationship.  This is a slippery slope for you emotionally... .I know you know this; and there is potentially a LOT at stake here.

Please consider stepping back for a bit, taking a breath and perhaps looking at the big picture.  How would this look to your new love if she were to learn about this contact with your ex BPD GF.  Especially the extent of your engagement in the contact.  How would she feel If she were to know that you researched the work prospects of your ex-GF's boyfriend?  This is trust that once broken, you may not be able to EVER recover. 

If your new GF knows that you left your marriage for your exBPD, she may see this as your "pattern", i.e.,  she could believe that you are now preparing to leave HER to return to your BPD.  Your current love obviously knows there was not much time between your BPD break-up and this relationship. 

The potential loss of that trust (not to mention the relationship) would be a steep price to pay; and a price for which you may actually get NOTHING except long-term heartache.  And if you look closely, that heartache could potentially extend to your kids, your friends, your church family and yes, your businesses... .

Sadly, and we all know this, it could be deja vu all over again.  So here it is... .it's not about HER situation, you CANNOT fix that.  It's about yours.  YOUR healing and what you want with your life.

Please please KNOW, I am NOT trying to hurt you.  We just need to be eyes wide open.  True love is not an easy find.  Healthy true love is expressed through kindness.  We CAN choose to detach permanently from what hurts us.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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Skip
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 11:11:19 AM »

I haven't seen her for nine months.  The relationship ended when my brain took over and saw how bad she was for me, and by extension my family, job and friends.  I saw that I should no longer take the constant scolding, shaming, running away, and damage she was doing to me -- and by extension my family, job and friends.  So I passively aggressively hurt her, by spending time with a girl friend, seeking advice regarding this crazy relationship where everything I did seemed to be wrong.  You see, I wasn't allowed to have friends of the opposite sex, so I lied to her about where I was and what I was doing.  Just a couple of visits and text conversations.  All about my BPD.  No cheating... .

Wow. You are in real distress. I hope posting and working with folks can help your through this. You got some really good advice in the posts above.

This probably isn't as complicated as it feels. I sense you in in a depression, and with that comes some distorted thinking. That is generally how depression gets us, we're down, our thinking distorts, the thoughts take us further down. This is what I mean by twisted thinking:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56199.0

I don't what it was about your old life and what it was about this girl (in the beginning), but this transition lite you up and you were willing to pay a huge price for it. Then it got ugly, you were part of that, and you accepted blame for that. In the end, she left for cause. You were spending time with another women behind her back. And all is gone.

There is a lot to unpack here. Unpack what happened to your family. Unpack the roller coaster ride and both your behaviors. Unpack her leaving you because she felt violated.

I don't think you have unpacked it yet, laid it out, stepped back, looked at it. When I read your old posts, I see a lot of depressed thinking / distorted thinking. Recently you suggested that you suffered from Stockholm Syndrome. That would be looking in the wrong direction for sure.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

She thought about me every day she says.  The woman who cut me out, left me completely, took up another man, would not return my phone calls, threatened me, -- says she thought about me every day and missed me terribly.  And when I asked her how was I supposed to know that she says -- because you know me. And now the buzzing in my brain gets louder and louder.

What is this madness?

Seenowayout, one thing I'm sure you found attractive about her is that she expresses (over expresses) her emotions. But it's important to listen to her with this understanding. I

Does she thinks lovingly about your every day and misses you terribly? Probably some truth here and some over expression. How does she feel about the man she is with, if she is on a similar roller coaster as she was with you? 

You know her. Think out all the pieces here. What do you think is going on?

Skip

PS: Here is the depression test - why not test yourself
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772
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Bo123
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 02:20:52 AM »

Therapy and and a Dr visit for meds.  No labeling here, just think it would help 80% of your issues.  Meds are not for life, but short term as your brain chemistry changes. Therapy lets you talk to professionals, while this site is fantastic, it can't beat face-to-face.  This will buy you the time to figure out this mess.  Don't underestimate where all the bad places this could take you, be proactive and stay ahead of the game.  You CAN come out ahead of this but you must act on your own to do it, it will not solve itself.  Good luck my friend and I hope to see a post that you got a T and saw a Dr.  Keep posting.
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 01:30:07 PM »

Thank you Gems, you are totally right -- the contact is no good.  She's contacting me, I'm not contacting her, but I've been receptive to the contact  It was just hard to hear nothing for so long and to have her back talking to me again, even in that small way.  I guess I'm also hoping to alleviate my guilt regarding how it ended, and all the damage done across the board, but that's a ridiculous hope. 

It would absolutely be deja vu all over again. 

I will go back over the detachment information again. 

Skip -- I call it Stockholm syndrome because it got to the point where I was totally captive, couldn't spend time with anyone else, was getting constantly shamed and yet I still loved her.  Of course Stockholm Syndrome is an exaggeration, but the relationship was not normal.  Why did I want to stay part of all that?  Maybe that's what you mean by looking in the wrong direction.

Yeah, I might be depressed.   The depressed and distorted thinking are real!  Throw in some insomnia and here I am.  I have good days and bad -- contact again brought back back days.

Yes, appointments this week, let's see where this goes.

Thanks all for your help

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Seenowayout
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 01:17:53 PM »

Distorted thinking indeed!

10 mg of lexapro for the last few weeks and the cloud has lifted.

Thank you friends!

I am focused again and I survived a final-final chapter that could have been quite messy otherwise.  I'll update for anyone interested another time.  Let's just say more I endured more validation of her BPD traits.

No wonder my serotonin levels were down after all the stress of the past year.  A quick reset -- and I'm back.

Still wounded, still learning, still growing, I'm back.

Thanks again friends. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 11:02:44 AM »

Still wounded, still learning, still growing, I'm back.

Walk with us. Many abandon the path to learning after the pain subsides... .

            often this is too soon.  I know it would have been for me.
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Bo123
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 08:45:23 PM »

Love can last forever, no matter the mess.  Have you talked to you T about co-dependency?  It may be her.  Hope things get better and keep posting.
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Seenowayout
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 08:49:01 AM »

Oh yeah Skip, I'll keep walking the path.  It's fascinating to me.

And yes Bo, it was codependency.  I told my current sane gf the other day that I would pay for my exBPDgf to get therapy, and my current sane gf was a little hurt.  But she genuinely loves me, and after swallowing the hurt she told me that I can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.  She says it's like an alcoholic who doesn't see they need help.  She said I would still be codependently feeding her, I need to let it go.

Love can last forever, no matter the mess.  But I think love means putting your loved one's needs ahead of your own sometimes, which I always did, and she rarely if ever did.  Why did I keep coming back?  Because I could see through her craziness, I knew she loved me, deeply, but I saw that she couldn't get past her own self and her own hurt.  I kept hoping.
 
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 09:48:40 AM »

Seen,

I like what your sane GF had to say. I've seen similar with my STBx. She is a drinker, a pot head, PTSD, and uNPD. Unfortunately for her, she can't give up the bottle or pot. PTSD will always be a BIG struggle for her. And we know how the PD stuff goes.

At a certain point, even though like the proverbial jaded parent of an addict we know there is a sweet person in there somewhere, we have to let go and let them fly on their own, safeguard ourselves against their antics, and hope they eventually get their act together.

I know a couple of people with immense life challenges. One jumped off the GW Bridge last summer despite my best efforts to keep him grounded. One continues to live a very low functioning life with an abusive BF.

If they can't act in their own best interests and don't accept the help we can provide, there's not much we can do for them sweet or not.

J
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