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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
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Setting Boundaries
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Author Topic: My story - can anyone offer any hope?  (Read 683 times)
Whototurnto?

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« on: February 06, 2018, 05:20:40 AM »

I have been reading posts on this board for a while hoping to find some positive outcomes for parents whose child suffers with BPD. So far I have not seen many happy endings for families.

Our story is one that started more than 10 years ago, although we only became aware of real problems with our high functioning daughter 8 and a half years ago, in the summer of 2009. Early that summer my husband and I were becoming increasingly worried about our daughter, who I will call Laura as I don’t want to give her real name, about her fragile mental health. Laura is very close to my sister and she would phone my sister every night, using the telephone in our bedroom as she did not have a mobile phone. We could tell that she was upset every night when she came off the phone, we would ask what the matter was but she wouldn’t say. She would also do things like shut down the websites she was looking at when we entered the room. Around this time there was a lot of publicity in South Wales about more than a dozen teenagers who had committed suicide, and the common denominator was they had all either been looking at or had posted their intentions on social media. We were very worried so one day I logged onto my daughters email account; I knew the password as we had set it up together. What I saw shook me to the core. At this time Laura was 16 and a half, she had just sat her GCSE’s. There were 100’s of emails between Laura and my sister, and between Laura and her counsellor at school. I didn’t read all of them as there were too many but the ones I read told a story of a 16 year girl who was being treated for psychosis by a mental health team as she was hearing voices in her head; she was telling her counsellor how much she hated her parents as we abused her, physically and mentally. And in writing I saw the counsellor tell my beloved daughter “Your parents have obviously never loved you”. This woman had never met us. The emails between my sister and Laura were of plans to move Laura out of the family home to live with her. I was absolutely shell shocked. I had no idea of any of this. I didn’t know what to do. I felt justified in reading her emails as I was so worried about her, but telling my husband what I had found out meant that I would have to own up about how I found out. When I told him he agreed with me that our daughter’s well being was the most important thing. Laura had gone away with my sister for a couple of days so we were unable to speak to her straight away so we made an emergency appointment with the psychosis team that was treating Laura. At the appointment we told the two people we saw that we didn’t expect them to tell us anything but we wanted them to hear what we had found out and to tell us what we should do. They said we should tell Laura what we had found out and how we had found out, and also they told us they were going to contact her school (a private school she moved to in Year 9 as she was being bullied at the local state school) and inform the Head Master of the totally unprofessional conduct of the school counsellor.

My husband and I went to see Laura and my sister the day they came back from their break. When I told them both what we had read they both went absolutely ballistic at us, shouting and crying, telling us we were wrong to do it, it was none of our business. The hate and vitriol was so upsetting. We had never seen our daughter like it. They practically threw us out of the house. We tried calling and writing to Laura but she ignored us. We had one terrible phone call from my sister where she told us that because of our abuse of our daughter, mentally and emotionally, Laura was in crisis. How could my sister think we had done anything? She had seen us at least twice a week for years, she came on holiday with us 5 times, and she was around every weekend for a meal or day out. If she had thought we were bad parents why hadn’t she ever said anything? It was about 4 weeks before we had any contact with Laura, and then it was very strained. The summer was coming to an end and she was due back at school for A Levels. It was much more convenient for her and my sister if she moved back home for school as she could catch the bus to school from our house, otherwise my sister had to drive her, and as she worked this wasn’t an option. So Laura moved back in September, staying Sunday to Thursday nights and then was at my sister’s place for the weekends and holidays. In late January 2010 my sister phoned about 10.30pm and told us that Laura was in hospital as she had gone to the school nurse with a detailed suicide plan. She told us they were keeping her in, she hadn’t actually carried out the plan at all, but they wanted to assess her. We saw her the next day and she talked to us like we were nothing to her. She wouldn’t allow us to sit close to her bed. She didn’t want anything from us. Laura was in for a few days and during that time we saw two mental health professionals. One of these was a locum doctor from London. He was the first one who told us in his opinion Laura was suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder. He told us it would be a very long time before she got better and she would not acknowledge that she had BPD.

When Laura was discharged from hospital she went to live with my sister full time, she never lived at home again. She was admitted to a mental health facility in the next county where we were told she was lucky to have a bed as there were only two available for the whole of Devon and Cornwall. She discharged herself after a few days, and then kicked up a fuss with CAMHS until they readmitted her. She stayed on and off from February until May. She dropped out of her private school as she said the bullying she was suffering there had contributed to her depression. She was accepted to the local college for A levels but dropped out after a couple of days as she hated it. She asked us to send her back to private school. We didn’t think this was the right thing to do because of the bullying there, and we knew the problems it had caused her. We told her we would like to meet with her to discuss it but my sister emailed me to say we must send her there without meeting her as we could not put any kind of strings attached to it, we should do it as we were her parents and it should be unconditional. We decided that as Laura did not want to have anything to do with us, while she was treating us so badly, and as she said all her problems stemmed from school in the first place we could not pay for her to go. My sister contacted the school and they agreed to let her pay but insisted that we were party to all letters and to everything concerning Laura while at school.  But she was only there half a term and her attendance was sporadic, so she dropped out again. Then she decided she wanted to go back a third time and the school would not take her back. She phoned us, shouting and crying, saying we had to beg with the school. I did phone the Head Teacher but he was certain that they were not going to take Laura back as not only was she accusing a couple of girls of bullying her, she was also refusing to be taught by a certain teacher as she said she was belittling her in lessons, and she was taking up all of the time of the school nurse by always being in her office. The school counsellor had been sacked by the school after they read the emails.

After that the contact with Laura was less and less until non existent. She told us she did not want us to phone her, or to call on her, or to write to her. We wrote Christmas and birthday cards still, we sent presents for both via my parents who saw my sister. We have a son who is 7 years older than Laura and she didn’t make any effort to keep in touch with him, although he was glad of this he told us as he didn’t agree with what she was doing and saying on any level. He also hates my sister for what she had done.
Since October 2010 Laura saw us Christmas 2010, then once in January 2011 she came over for a family dinner as our son was visiting with his partner and small son, who Laura had only seen twice since he was born 6 months before. Then the next time we saw her was in August 2013 at our son’s wedding. He didn’t want to invite Laura or my sister but we asked him to do it for us. On the day they turned up to the wedding and made it extremely uncomfortable for us. My sister was acting like a carer for Laura, getting her food and drinks, staying by her side in case anyone spoke to her. Laura showed for the ceremony then retired to her room after the reception, was absent for the photos, then made an appearance for the evening party. At this party she asked to speak to my husband outside. He was outside with her for about 5 minutes and then came in and said to me that Laura had asked to speak to me and to just try and remain calm. I went outside to Laura and my sister. They had chosen to have the conversation with me right next to a group of people sitting down. She declined my request to speak somewhere more private. She wanted me to apologise to her for how she had been treated, for what we had done. I said we still didn’t know what it was we had done, if it was looking at the emails then we had apologised again and again, but she said there were other things and we knew what they were. I said we really didn’t know, why didn’t she tell us? She said she would write to us detailing them. We never received any such letter. I got upset at how she was talking to me, it was our son’s wedding and guests were listening. I felt she had ruined the day, I felt drained. My husband told me he had the same treatment. The next day we were ignored at breakfast. That was the last time we saw Laura in person. Since then she has done a degree, she got a first class with honours. We watched her ceremony online when it was streamed live, we felt very proud of her but quite sad at the same time. This was in July 2017. Laura is now doing her Masters degree. I know she stays at university some of the time and can only hope as she grows apart from my sister and meets more people she may alter her thinking about us and her childhood.

I know I have typed a lot of stuff here but it isn’t even a fraction of what has happened to us. We truly believe Laura has BPD but my sister does not believe it, she is still saying it is her childhood that has caused this, our emotional abuse, our invalidating her feelings, our neglect of our daughter. Laura is living with someone who is enabling her. I have even gone as far as to think my sister groomed her, not in a sexual way but for her own purposes as my sister has never had a relationship or children.  Our daughter was cherished, loved, spoilt, beautiful, kind, the most lovely girl in all the world. What happened? Until I found these forums I was thinking we were alone in our experience. I now know we are not. But I really was hoping to read something to give me hope for the future. Or is this it for us?
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
Devastated Mom

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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 07:46:33 AM »

Hello Whototurnto

I am also new to this group. Having found it, while desperately searching the internet for answers. I can relate to so much of your story. I felt like I could have written a lot of it myself. My daughter is presently living with my Mom, who also enables her. I wish I had some answers for you, but I don't.  I too have been reading the board looking for anything positive, for some type of hope for the future, but haven't found it yet.

My husband and I  have also been falsely accused of abuse. So I know the pain and anguish you feel about that. I'm not sure how to ever rectify that- How can you change someones perception of something that didn't happen, yet they feel it did? I have so many questions that I feel will never be answered and that makes me incredibly sad.

I am just trying to carry on the best I can, come to terms with things as they are and hope that things will change someday. I've beat myself up for so long (an continue to do so), but then I bring myself back to reality knowing that I've done everything I can to help her. Try to keep telling yourself that you've done the best you can, that's the only thing I have right now. And keep posting on this board because everyone here is extremely kind, supportive and caring. It's a relief to see that we are not alone, whereas I felt so alone before.

I hope you find peace, I feel your pain and understand the devastation... .as my name on here implies.

~ Devastated Mom
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Whototurnto?

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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 08:31:47 AM »

Hello Devastated Mom, and thank you for your reply. I totally feel and agree with all that you said. How do we change someone's perception of things that happened, or they think happened? I am coming to the conclusion that we won't ever do. Our daughter was 17 when she last lived at home, she is 25 now. So much time has gone by. How old is your daughter? Does your mom believe her stories of abuse?
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Devastated Mom

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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 09:03:03 AM »

Whototurnto

My daughter just turned 18 in December. For some reason things are worse than they've ever been. While my mom doesn't necessarily "believe" the stories of abuse, she is very sympathetic to my daughters feelings that she was abused. My Mom has always "felt sorry" for her because her biological father (my ex husband) was emotionally and physically abusive, although I left him when my daughter was 4 and her sister was 2. Although, never diagnosed, I believe he is also BPD. I remarried when D18 was 7. Her stepfather has never been anything but loving and supportive of her, but she never accepted him fully. Her biological father always put things in her head to never accept her step father.  My mother always had a soft spot for my daughter since she always had a hard time with the situation as a whole. While I understand that, my daughter was offered everything we could give in terms of love, support, protection, with no help from her biological father. But in her mind, she sees it completely differently.  Again, not sure how I can change that perception. I've read the books, I've tried the validation, but nothing seems to change. She will be "nice" to me when she's getting what she wants from me (like a prom dress, etc) but the minute things don't go her way, I'm the most horrible person in the universe and accusations fly all over the place. I'm at a complete loss.
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starkdragon76

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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2018, 11:58:28 AM »

  Wheretoturn

Wow! I truly feel for your situation, I really do. If I can, I'd like to offer you some introspection into the mind of a BPD. That entire philosophy, "I think, therefore I am"-it is so invariably true to those of us that suffer from BPD. My daughter was a lot like your daughter throughout her teen years. It was highly stressed and extremely difficult to navigate through. I believe wholeheartedly that for her (my daughter), she really believed all that was inside her head. The big question you have to ask yourself is, "What do I want from this relationship?" And after you ask that question, you have to be brutally honest with yourself in both the answer and as well as what transpired throughout her childhood. Understand that in her mind, what happened to her was REAL and for HER obviously devastating. Just validate her feelings. You don't have to agree to what she is saying happened, but by validating her feelings and saying to her things like, "That must have felt extremely lonely to have to go through that alone." or "I'm so sorry if that is how things looked and appeared to you." You don't have to really accept or place blame anywhere at this time or moment. What's important is if you want to begin to repair this fractured relationship, the first step is just validating that she was hurting. The why and what transpired can come later, when the two of you are better at communicating effectively between one another. It's not easy living with BPD and we who have accepted that as our diagnosis realize how damaging our behaviors and actions can be to those that are close to us. Yet, the one thing that everyone has to remember is that at our very core, we are all humans. We all require the basic needs met to feel content and the most important of those needs after food and shelter is the feeling of being loved and accepted by the family we were born into.
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Yepanotherone
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2018, 10:48:47 PM »

First of all , can I just say “ wow” then “wow” again ! At the risk of sounding horribly judgemental, I’m spitting knives when reading about your sister in particular. What a huge betrayal ! It sounds like you trusted her and invited her  into your lives , including her in your family life and for her to do what she has done is completely outrageous and I can only imagine how hurt you must feel . It’s kike a double whammy to be “ painted black “ by your DD and also betrayed by your sister . I personally agree that it sounds like your sister was grooming your DD , validating the invalid constantly , taking full advantage of your DD ‘s vulnerability, feeding the BPD disorder and I’m sorry to say this but I think it sounds like your sister was envious of what you had and went out of her way to take something from you . I hope I don’t offend you with these words but I’m honestly outraged that your sister has behaved in this way . It’s just so wrong in so many ways . She has probably exacerbated all the symptoms that your DD presented with , feeding her false memories and delusions .
And as for the school counselor ! I’m glad she got fired . What a disgrace !

I just want to reassure you that from my point of view , you reading those emails was NOT wrong ! You were worried for your DD and any parent worth their salt is going to go look for information . Regardless of whether it’s an “invasion of privacy “ or not .  My first indication that my DD was very unwell was police turning up at our door for a wellness check after my DD called them out herself , saying she was worried she was going to hurt herself. We also learned a few hours after that , that she had apparently attempted an overdose while in middle school . It was a bolt out of the blue . She then shortly after that , took an overdose again . It was then that I decided to break into her phone to try and find out exactly what was going on in my DD ‘s life that she wasn’t sharing with me and what would lead her to wanting to end her life . I had absolutely no idea she was having difficulties ( this was all pre diagnosis) and you had better believe that after that first overdose attempt , I monitored her every move online with whatever tools I had to hand including figuring out her passwords and fitting her computer with tracking software ( the latter I did after finding out she was doing drugs ) . My DD found out that I could access her messages and she was understandably furious . She even had her therapist at the time tell her that she ( the therapist ) didn’t agree with me breaking into her phone and I was really annoyed with that therapist . My DD tries to kill her self ? You bet I’m going to be on constant radar and trying to understand and anticipate her next move !
I make no apologies for it and I’d do exactly the same thing again under those circumstances. You did what most parents will do so don’t beat yourself up about it .

I feel your DD has you and her dad painted black right now ... .and the auntie is painted white . That might change in time . I can’t begin to feel your hurt about the false allegations of abuse as thankfully that’s one thing my DD hasn’t done . What I will say is that there is probably very little you can say or do to change her mind about her past until she has stopped painting you black . And that will just take time . I’d suggest maybe just sending  her a heartfelt message that you love her with all your heart , you always have , always will , you are so sorry that she has felt so much sadness in her life , that you’re her Mum and Dad and always will be , and you’ll be there for her when she’s ready to move forward with trying to heal your relationship .I’d also say that you will never abandon her but you need to live your life too and are trying to move forward from your own feelings of hurt and mistrust , so to this end , you won’t be forcing her into communicating with you again ,but if she wants to reach out , you’ll be there .

Just my tuppence worth . I don’t believe in fully pandering to my DD ‘s  disorder and she need to understand I will have my limits to how much I can take . It’s may be worthwhile letting your DD  know you have limits to what you can take and she can’t walk all over you .
Huat is a regular here and offers excellent advice . One of the things that Huat often says is “ don’t allow yourself to be her victim “ . It feeds the disorder .
I find this advice really resonated with me and I make sure I’m no longer my DD’s punchbag .  I’m there for her , but I’m not going to take all her crap she flings !
My experience is that my DD seems to respect me a whole lot more when I’m not being overly fluffy with her . She’s seen me respond in anger and she’s seen me respond in tears so many times . Neither works well !
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Whototurnto?

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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 05:20:42 AM »

First of all , can I just say “ wow” then “wow” again ! At the risk of sounding horribly judgemental, I’m spitting knives when reading about your sister in particular. What a huge betrayal ! It sounds like you trusted her and invited her  into your lives , including her in your family life and for her to do what she has done is completely outrageous and I can only imagine how hurt you must feel . It’s kike a double whammy to be “ painted black “ by your DD and also betrayed by your sister . I personally agree that it sounds like your sister was grooming your DD , validating the invalid constantly , taking full advantage of your DD ‘s vulnerability, feeding the BPD disorder and I’m sorry to say this but I think it sounds like your sister was envious of what you had and went out of her way to take something from you . I hope I don’t offend you with these words but I’m honestly outraged that your sister has behaved in this way . It’s just so wrong in so many ways . She has probably exacerbated all the symptoms that your DD presented with , feeding her false memories and delusions .
And as for the school counselor ! I’m glad she got fired . What a disgrace !

I just want to reassure you that from my point of view , you reading those emails was NOT wrong ! You were worried for your DD and any parent worth their salt is going to go look for information . Regardless of whether it’s an “invasion of privacy “ or not .  My first indication that my DD was very unwell was police turning up at our door for a wellness check after my DD called them out herself , saying she was worried she was going to hurt herself. We also learned a few hours after that , that she had apparently attempted an overdose while in middle school . It was a bolt out of the blue . She then shortly after that , took an overdose again . It was then that I decided to break into her phone to try and find out exactly what was going on in my DD ‘s life that she wasn’t sharing with me and what would lead her to wanting to end her life . I had absolutely no idea she was having difficulties ( this was all pre diagnosis) and you had better believe that after that first overdose attempt , I monitored her every move online with whatever tools I had to hand including figuring out her passwords and fitting her computer with tracking software ( the latter I did after finding out she was doing drugs ) . My DD found out that I could access her messages and she was understandably furious . She even had her therapist at the time tell her that she ( the therapist ) didn’t agree with me breaking into her phone and I was really annoyed with that therapist . My DD tries to kill her self ? You bet I’m going to be on constant radar and trying to understand and anticipate her next move !
I make no apologies for it and I’d do exactly the same thing again under those circumstances. You did what most parents will do so don’t beat yourself up about it .

I feel your DD has you and her dad painted black right now ... .and the auntie is painted white . That might change in time . I can’t begin to feel your hurt about the false allegations of abuse as thankfully that’s one thing my DD hasn’t done . What I will say is that there is probably very little you can say or do to change her mind about her past until she has stopped painting you black . And that will just take time . I’d suggest maybe just sending  her a heartfelt message that you love her with all your heart , you always have , always will , you are so sorry that she has felt so much sadness in her life , that you’re her Mum and Dad and always will be , and you’ll be there for her when she’s ready to move forward with trying to heal your relationship .I’d also say that you will never abandon her but you need to live your life too and are trying to move forward from your own feelings of hurt and mistrust , so to this end , you won’t be forcing her into communicating with you again ,but if she wants to reach out , you’ll be there .

Just my tuppence worth . I don’t believe in fully pandering to my DD ‘s  disorder and she need to understand I will have my limits to how much I can take . It’s may be worthwhile letting your DD  know you have limits to what you can take and she can’t walk all over you .
Huat is a regular here and offers excellent advice . One of the things that Huat often says is “ don’t allow yourself to be her victim “ . It feeds the disorder .
I find this advice really resonated with me and I make sure I’m no longer my DD’s punchbag .  I’m there for her , but I’m not going to take all her crap she flings !
My experience is that my DD seems to respect me a whole lot more when I’m not being overly fluffy with her . She’s seen me respond in anger and she’s seen me respond in tears so many times . Neither works well !

Dear Yepanotherone

I think your reply was intended for my post - "My story - can anyone offer any hope". Can I just say Thank You for your kind words, and I agree with everything you have said. It has been a relief to know it's not just us that can see what has been going on. Your story sounds very similar, and I've read others on here that also resonate with me. I agree about not pandering to the BPD. In the past we have told DD when we thought she was being unfair but it didn't go down well. Once she asked us to look after her gerbils while she was away and to keep us out of her bedroom she put them in her brother's bedroom (he was away at the time at Uni), but didn't leave enough food so we had to go into her bedroom to fetch the food. When she got home she realised we had done this and went crazy. We told her then she was out of order, didn't make any difference as she thought we disobeyed her, so did my sister. We were not allowed into her bedroom because of her OCD (she had to clean anything we touched) BUT we were allowed to make her food, cut up her sandwich, wash and iron her clothes... .
Sorry, I was off at a tangent, this is how it gets. We all have so many stories we could tell! The last contact we had with DD was in October 2015 when she emailed me requesting we stop sending her presents and cards as she couldn't open them because of her OCD. I asked my sister via email if it was just our cards and presents and she said yes it was. I then sent my sister a letter saying how upset we were, how our DD was no better after 5 years of living away from us, how we still believed she had BPD and was she getting the right treatment. What I received back was an 11 page document of bile, telling me how awful a parent I was, I was cruel as a child, how we had failed as parents, it went on and on. It was truly shocking. I severed all contact with my sister after that letter and we have not heard from DD since either. We didn't send DD any cards or presents in 2015, but we did send her birthday and christmas cards from 2016 onwards. We don't expect she opens them but we need to do it. When her grandmother died last year I sent DD a letter with a cheque for the money she had been left (£100). I wrote on the letter which was inside another envelope "Cheque enclosed". It has never been cashed.
I do want to write to DD but she won't open the letter. I will try though, it's all we can do.
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Whototurnto?

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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 05:31:02 AM »

Dear Devastated Mom

I can relate exactly to what you say. When our DD was at home she was just like your daughter. Your mother has not helped, but you know that. What puzzles me is how these people who know us so well can believe what they hear, it doesn't make sense. And even by being sympathetic is must validate the events in a BPD's mind. It seems there is no easy answer and it is a long road ahead.
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Whototurnto?

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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 05:42:45 AM »

 Wheretoturn

Wow! I truly feel for your situation, I really do. If I can, I'd like to offer you some introspection into the mind of a BPD. That entire philosophy, "I think, therefore I am"-it is so invariably true to those of us that suffer from BPD. My daughter was a lot like your daughter throughout her teen years. It was highly stressed and extremely difficult to navigate through. I believe wholeheartedly that for her (my daughter), she really believed all that was inside her head. The big question you have to ask yourself is, "What do I want from this relationship?" And after you ask that question, you have to be brutally honest with yourself in both the answer and as well as what transpired throughout her childhood. Understand that in her mind, what happened to her was REAL and for HER obviously devastating. Just validate her feelings. You don't have to agree to what she is saying happened, but by validating her feelings and saying to her things like, "That must have felt extremely lonely to have to go through that alone." or "I'm so sorry if that is how things looked and appeared to you." You don't have to really accept or place blame anywhere at this time or moment. What's important is if you want to begin to repair this fractured relationship, the first step is just validating that she was hurting. The why and what transpired can come later, when the two of you are better at communicating effectively between one another. It's not easy living with BPD and we who have accepted that as our diagnosis realize how damaging our behaviors and actions can be to those that are close to us. Yet, the one thing that everyone has to remember is that at our very core, we are all humans. We all require the basic needs met to feel content and the most important of those needs after food and shelter is the feeling of being loved and accepted by the family we were born into.

Hello Starkdragon76

Thank you for your reply. It was a very thoughtful answer. I agree with what you said. About 4 years ago my sister contacted us and said she didn't think DD would be able to forgive us or move on until we apologised, and did it sincerely. Alarm bells rang with me, and I think that was when I found this forum, and my research led my to think that apologising for things we did not do would only validate that we did do them in DD's mind. So our 3 page letter to DD apologised profusely for how she was feeling, for what she had been through, I think we said something very close to what you said about being sorry if that's how things seemed to you. We told her over and over we loved her more than anything, she was our darling daughter. We had no reply other than an email from my sister saying that we hadn't apologised in her opinion. All the contact has been through my sister's email account, even when it purports to come from DD so we can't be sure who is writing the email. We would love to have a relationship with our daughter on any level, we have told her she can just call, drop by, whatever and we will ask no questions, we would just love to see her. In our case I really think it's my sister who has complicated things and made it harder for us all.
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 07:20:27 AM »

Hi Whototurnto,

I have 3 young daughters and couldn't imagine the personal turmoil you are going through it being so mentally and physically rejected by one of your babies. It must be heartbreaking for you. I would imagine your experience is all the more heinous because you cannot apply a rational cause to why your daughter is making these allegations.

As Starkdragon76 said, to your daughter these feelings are very real and as such, the emotional expression of them when she is relaying them to others is VERY REAL. Your sister for example and the counselor at her private are naively believing the outward emotional expression of her feelings (which to her are facts) and discounting other conflicting information such as their personal experience. I have personal experience of this in an adult situation where multiple friends have readily believed my undiagnosed BPD wife's claims of abuse without any evidence whatsoever, only her emotional expression as proof that her allegations MUST be true. These people are not aware that they are validating the invalid which in effect reinforces the FACTS (feeling = facts) in the pwBPD's imagination that their delusional thoughts are real and you had abused them.

- What was you relationship with you sister like before this? What is going on with her which makes her feel that she is better placed to care and understand your daughter than you... .her parents?
- Has your daughter ever been detailed about what "the abuse" was? Does she ever refer to specific events? pwBPD are not keen on facts because facts can be validated and tested vs reality. For example, my wife accuses me of being abusive because I got angry with her, the fact that I was angry because she was having an affair and I was begging her to stop was irrelevant to her, as far as she was concerned it was abusive of me to be angry and more importantly it was abusive that I pointed out her SHAME and GUILT that she was having an affair. I hurt her emotionally by telling her she was wrong to have an affair. The intensity with which she feels intimate emotions is off the charts and VERY REAL to her.

Raising a child/teenager is very challenging, the emotional extremes are vast and you didn't know there were different rules of engagement. Ironically I see my wife who knows the pain of invalidation invalidating my D9 and wince when I see the reactions. My wife has confronted her own mother about abuse she felt she received when she was a teenager and her mother said "I have no idea what you're talking about". This is partly how BPD goes from one generation to the next to the next. Each individual in the chain believes they have treated the next person in a totally fair way, each being utterly oblivious to their own behaviour having a direct impact on the next in the same why the previous had on them. I am not suggesting you are oblivious to your own abusive behaviour but it maybe that you are not aware of how your normal behaviour had a different impact on your daughter due to the way she received criticism or discipline.

You have taken great steps in building the bridge towards her with truth and validation. You have accepted she feels what she feels and that she can't change that. Those who validate the invalid are more comforting to her at the moment as they agree with her internal narrative. They make her feel whole rather than wrong and broken.

FWIW I too checked my wife's emails and whatsaps, she found out and now uses that as a cornerstone of my abuse of her. My motives where to find out what was going on and stop the madness, she did not see it that way and filed a police report.
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 07:59:54 AM »

Hi Enabler
Thank you for your reply which I found very helpful. I am sorry you have been through it with your wife, it is truly an awful thing to experience.

You asked what my relationship was like with my sister. I am older than her by 2 years, I married young (20 years old), she has never married or had a serious relationship. She lives about 12 miles away and so she used to visit us about twice a week, always a meal on the weekend, always spent Xmas and birthdays at ours. She used to come to us the vast majority of the time as we have 2 children. She started doing this when DD was about 5 as that's when she moved nearer us. The relationship was always good, we had a lot in common, we watched the same programmes. She came on holiday with us to the USA 5 times. She always thought she was a bit better than me as she went to university but I went straight to work from school and married young. My husband was a police officer and I worked either in finance or a school. But looking back she always thought she knew what was best for our daughter.
As for the abuse we have been told this: We smacked her once. Rather my husband smacked her once when she was about 10. I was there and it was a quick loss of temper during a really long heated argument, he smacked her leg, he regretted it immediately, apologised profusely.  DD was shocked at the time, no marks were left, no bruising or broken skin, it really was a quick smack. My sister and DD have turned this into physical abuse during her childhood.
My husband called DD a drama queen once when after an argument DD ran upstairs and started to climb out of the second floor window to jump. He ran after her and pulled her back in saying ":)on't be such a drama queen". She was about 14, and again I was there.
We have been told we abused her when we took the lock of the bathroom door at home. The reason we did this was because DD was taking long, long showers and spending hours in the bathroom. We had a son who either went to school or worked and needed to get his toothbrush, etc, and with no lock on the door he could walk in and pick it up. The shower she was in was enclosed with a thick shower curtain so he wouldn't have seen anything, and he is not the type of boy who would look. But not being able to get into the bathroom caused so many arguments, and we had two children to keep the peace with. The lock came off probably when DD was about 11/12.  When she was about 14 she went to the doctors and then was under the local mental health service. Although she would not tell us what was being said or what was happening we had a phone call from one of them saying just as a precaution we should remove anything sharp from the bathrooms and to not let DD spend too long in there without checking, so we never felt we should replace the lock. But taking the lock of the door has been sited as being a major abuse. I know it's different but growing up my family did not have any locks on the bathroom or toilet doors, I was just used to that and it was never a problem. We did it for no other reason than to try to make it a little easier for our son.
We have asked her time and time again to tell us what we did that was wrong and those are the things she has said, she has also said there were lots more and despite us asking her to tell us, or write them down and post to us, she hasn't done so. My sister also quotes just these things.
I know she interpreted things differently now, but at the time we did not know. She would think we were shouting at each other when we had any kind of discussion, even if we were laughing during the discussion. But she could watch the Simpsons or Friends and pick up on all the hidden meanings, double entendre's etc. It didn't make sense.
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2018, 11:39:10 AM »

It’s not uncommon for those without kids to look upon those with kids and think “owwwwww I could do a much better job than they could”, I know, I did it to my eldest sister when she first had kids and I didn’t. I know that my sister in law also believes she could be a better parent than myself and my wife, she arrives once a month, showers the kids with gifts and then takes them shopping. She’s not involved in the day to day running of their lives and she is also not someone the kids would feel comfortable unleashing their usual hell fire on. It’s different but she doesn’t see it. Now, that all said it does not explain why your sister is not trying to side with you and get you and your daughter closer rather than farther apart. This has been going on for many years now, was there ever a time when your sister tried to push your daughter towards you rather than away?  That said, I can see in my SIL regarding some of the things she says that actually that could happen. In her mind she cares more about the kids than we do, she sees us as dysfunctional and abusive and will gladly make the throwaway condiscending comment of “well we just want what’s best for the children and I don’t know how they live in this situation”. That’s a small step away from “I don’t know how they live like that, I will rescue them, make myself feel a lot better about the fact that I don’t have my own children because I’m afraid of childbirth, and I will save them from you”.

Emotional memory has little in the way of time stamps. A significant trauma experienced many many years before can be felt exactly the same as though it were yesterday even though it may have been 15-20 years ago. Although events such as the smacking or the window incident may well have been cause and effect, well justofed and notaliciously intended, if your daughter has BPD she may not see them that way. Her allergy to guilt and shame may twist situations from my dad smacked me because we were having an argument, I was extremely rude and probably deserved it, to, I did nothing and dad just slapped me. Because of her inability to cope with the negative feelings of guilt and shame she projects them away onto you. Rather than her being bad and broken, you are bad and abusive. Hence the evidence is flaky and she will not want to discuss details.

Have you read the 20 rules of BPD? I found them very insightful in empathising with my wife and how she processes situational information.
www.anythingtostopthepain.com/20-rules-for-understanding-BPD/

I don’t have the answers with regards to getting your daughter to love and trust you again, however I do know that it requires the following:
Unconditional love
Boundaries as to what you allow her to stick on you
No guilting
No shaming
Do not JADE with her, it’s better to say nothing than argue, she knows what she knows, you telling her otherwise just invalidates her.
Validating the valid
Avoid attacking your sister, it’s pointless and counterproductive
Pull when she pushes, push a little with love  when she pushes

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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2018, 12:17:59 PM »

Hi Whototturnto

Please do forgive my last post. It was brought to my attention that I broke the guidelines with giving introspection into a BPD mind. I understand that we all are different and I totally regret that I may have not been as supportive to your situation as I probably could have.

You are right, you shouldn't apologize for things you didn't do. I didn't mean to come off in that manner and if the message you garnered was to apologize for things you didn't do, that definitely was not my intentions.

It does sound as though your DD has an extreme form of BD or possibly another personality disorder clustered in with BPD. I am truly sorry for what you are experiencing and to think how there are folks who seem to just join in on the pain is mindblowing. It reminds me of growing up with my older sister. It seemed she had this ability to pull people into the bullying. At home, both my parents and other siblings would seem to enjoy joining in on the fun of bullying me. A perfect example happened not too long ago. I was on Facebook and trying to just communicate with my family. My brother had recently shaved his beard this past November and posted a picture on FB. My sister then commented on how he looked, which was a cute little "joke". I decided to join in on the fun and commented something in the effect "Because the world revolves around Jane's (Not her real name) opinions." She came back at me with a really angry reply and began really putting me down. I had to tell her that it was all fun and joking but she wouldn't let go and kept coming back with thses incidious replies. Then my siblings, my brother included, knowing what they were doing, just fueled her more. I ended up saying something like, I'm out because I'm tired of you all trying to shame me for a damn joke! Going through that one experience, it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. First, I seen how it wasn't just my sister who would bully me, but my entire family! I'm not talking about extreme, in your face bullying either. I'm talking about small, little things like being mocked or made fun of because whatever I did to try and end it, I would either be spanked (for taking up for myself and being the one caught) or told how much of a baby I was being because I was crying. Really, crying was the only tool I had to protect myself because I was so afraid of getting spanked for utilizing other tactics. So, that one exchange sort of was my awareness crisis (i forget the terminology used, forgive me) into seeing that it wasn't just ONE person, but in many aspects, my entire family. Yet, I was accurate in my thoughts that it all originated with my sister, she just had that knack of pulling others in to join her in her bullying ways. It seems that's exactly what's happened between your DD and sister. I'm so sorry for that and you have my upmost sympathy. To me, it just seems your sister is on cloud 9 because she thinks that she is the only one that can "soothe" your DD. That's got to be incredibly hurtful for you to have to experience. I hope that you can find some way to reach your DD and find some resolution to the painful past both seemed to have experienced. My heart goes out to you indeed.
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 08:57:00 AM »

 Hi! Whototurnto

I have been reading a great book to help take my mind off things.  Today I was reading a sentence as follows:

"having a child is like deciding to have your heart go walking around outside your body.  The thought of something happening to your child is unimaginable to any parent"

I hear your pain, not just because it's so hard to understand how she can hurt you for such perceived slights when all you have done is loved her, but to have the issue exacerbated by your sister must be excruciating.  One cannot rationalize the irrational.

I can relate to some degree as my DD27 has cut me and my GD1 out of her life some three weeks ago (for the 2nd time in two months), following 12 months of doing nothing but helping her adjust to motherhood following a broken relationship during pregnancy (the two words - calm down - when in full blown rage triggered it).  She has gone to live with her father and I know he will "validate the invalid".  While she is there,  I'm not willing to engage with her, even just to let her know I love her as I know she is still angry and hurt, and collectively I will be ripped to shreds, and I'm not ready for another kick to the stomach.  I don't feel ready to validate anything while I feel stripped so bare... .I need to recover first and place myself in a position of least exposure and damage. 

A lovely quote by Henri Nouwen
"To console does not mean to take away the pain but rather to be there and say 'you are not alone, I am with you'.  Together we can carry the burden.  Don't be afraid I am here'. 

I am new here too but wanting to reach out to definitely let you know you are not alone as others are also reaching out to me and it really helps.  Hang in there :-)
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 04:40:44 AM »

Hi Whototturnto

Please do forgive my last post. It was brought to my attention that I broke the guidelines with giving introspection into a BPD mind. I understand that we all are different and I totally regret that I may have not been as supportive to your situation as I probably could have.

You are right, you shouldn't apologize for things you didn't do. I didn't mean to come off in that manner and if the message you garnered was to apologize for things you didn't do, that definitely was not my intentions.

It does sound as though your DD has an extreme form of BD or possibly another personality disorder clustered in with BPD. I am truly sorry for what you are experiencing and to think how there are folks who seem to just join in on the pain is mindblowing. It reminds me of growing up with my older sister. It seemed she had this ability to pull people into the bullying. At home, both my parents and other siblings would seem to enjoy joining in on the fun of bullying me. A perfect example happened not too long ago. I was on Facebook and trying to just communicate with my family. My brother had recently shaved his beard this past November and posted a picture on FB. My sister then commented on how he looked, which was a cute little "joke". I decided to join in on the fun and commented something in the effect "Because the world revolves around Jane's (Not her real name) opinions." She came back at me with a really angry reply and began really putting me down. I had to tell her that it was all fun and joking but she wouldn't let go and kept coming back with thses incidious replies. Then my siblings, my brother included, knowing what they were doing, just fueled her more. I ended up saying something like, I'm out because I'm tired of you all trying to shame me for a damn joke! Going through that one experience, it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. First, I seen how it wasn't just my sister who would bully me, but my entire family! I'm not talking about extreme, in your face bullying either. I'm talking about small, little things like being mocked or made fun of because whatever I did to try and end it, I would either be spanked (for taking up for myself and being the one caught) or told how much of a baby I was being because I was crying. Really, crying was the only tool I had to protect myself because I was so afraid of getting spanked for utilizing other tactics. So, that one exchange sort of was my awareness crisis (i forget the terminology used, forgive me) into seeing that it wasn't just ONE person, but in many aspects, my entire family. Yet, I was accurate in my thoughts that it all originated with my sister, she just had that knack of pulling others in to join her in her bullying ways. It seems that's exactly what's happened between your DD and sister. I'm so sorry for that and you have my upmost sympathy. To me, it just seems your sister is on cloud 9 because she thinks that she is the only one that can "soothe" your DD. That's got to be incredibly hurtful for you to have to experience. I hope that you can find some way to reach your DD and find some resolution to the painful past both seemed to have experienced. My heart goes out to you indeed.

Hi Starkdragon
Please don't apologise. I hadn't thought for one minute about breaking guidelines, I'm new here and just grateful to talk to people in a similar situation, and for the chance to vent! I certainly didn't think you were saying I should apologise either, I was just writing about being asked once before and the outcome. All that you tell me, and everyone else on this thread is very important to me as it is support, even though we don't know each other I don't feel so alone. My husband is a great support but he has gone through exactly the same as me, and we have talked about it with each other until we've worn the topic out! He hurts badly, we talk about DD on a daily basis with each other, sometimes it's because a small thing has reminded us of her, other times in a more upset way and it brings us down. I'm sure we're all doing this in our lives.
I'm sorry for your experience on FB. Sometimes you cannot do right for doing wrong! When I read about your family mocking you I remembered that my sister used to mock me when we were younger, she mocked what I wore, mocked my hair, and chance she got. I had forgotten that.
Anyway, I wish you a good day, and a good weekend.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 04:45:48 AM »

Hi! Whototurnto

I have been reading a great book to help take my mind off things.  Today I was reading a sentence as follows:

"having a child is like deciding to have your heart go walking around outside your body.  The thought of something happening to your child is unimaginable to any parent"

I hear your pain, not just because it's so hard to understand how she can hurt you for such perceived slights when all you have done is loved her, but to have the issue exacerbated by your sister must be excruciating.  One cannot rationalize the irrational.

I can relate to some degree as my DD27 has cut me and my GD1 out of her life some three weeks ago (for the 2nd time in two months), following 12 months of doing nothing but helping her adjust to motherhood following a broken relationship during pregnancy (the two words - calm down - when in full blown rage triggered it).  She has gone to live with her father and I know he will "validate the invalid".  While she is there,  I'm not willing to engage with her, even just to let her know I love her as I know she is still angry and hurt, and collectively I will be ripped to shreds, and I'm not ready for another kick to the stomach.  I don't feel ready to validate anything while I feel stripped so bare... .I need to recover first and place myself in a position of least exposure and damage. 

A lovely quote by Henri Nouwen
"To console does not mean to take away the pain but rather to be there and say 'you are not alone, I am with you'.  Together we can carry the burden.  Don't be afraid I am here'. 

I am new here too but wanting to reach out to definitely let you know you are not alone as others are also reaching out to me and it really helps.  Hang in there :-)

Hi Merlot
Thank you for your kind words. I am sorry to hear about your situation. Having a granddaughter as well who you are cut off from doubles then pain, I really hope she comes good soon for you. It's been therapeutic to hear others stories in a way as it helps to know it's not us, BPD is responsible for what our children are going through. I don't know about you but I am fed up with hearing that parents MUST have been awful for a child to develop BPD. I really don't think that is the case at all when I read these posts on here.
I am hanging in there, sometimes it feels like I'm hanging by a thread, but I'm still here. And you know some lovely quotes!
Have a good weekend.
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 07:44:22 PM »

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I wish I could offer hope, but I've just started this journey myself. My daughter has been accusing us of a horrible upbringing, and since we set boundaries (after giving her nearly 45K), is telling all our friends and neighbors that we are horrible people that don't care if her and the grandkids end up on the street.  I know and feel your pain. I've decided that there is nothing I can say or do to change her feelings about things, and our good friends won't buy into the crap being said. Just focus on yourselves for now and make sure that everything is good between you and your home. Everything else will work itself out over time.
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 06:26:20 AM »

 Hi Whototurn to

I was was just wondering how you are doing?  Your story really struck a chord with me and I feel so sad for what you are going through, in particular as your heart sill aches months and months after last contact.  Has there been any opportunities to make contact with her?

Hope you and your husband are well. Merlot :-)
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 10:42:16 AM »

Hello!
My heart goes out to you as the circumstances are no where near anything you can control. How frustrating and terrifying. I read your post and felt as if I were in some sort of nightmare. Wow!
Sadly, this a somewhat common story that I have heard by several people. It begins with a loving aunt and a school social worker. I wish there was something you could do to reconnect with your daughter. I can't imagine the pain you have been through.
My thoughts are with you. Hang in there and mourn, mourn mourn. This is such a tremendous loss.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 09:18:03 AM »

Hi Whototurn to

I was was just wondering how you are doing?  Your story really struck a chord with me and I feel so sad for what you are going through, in particular as your heart sill aches months and months after last contact.  Has there been any opportunities to make contact with her?

Hope you and your husband are well. Merlot :-)

Hi Merlot
How kind of you to think of me. Nothing has changed I'm sorry to say. I've just had my 55th Birthday and no card or message. I don't expect it anymore. We last sent DD a card for christmas. We know she won't open it so it makes it hard to make contact. She does open the cards her brother sends, and she sends one back to him. She writes such lovely things to her brother, wishes him and his children well. She doesn't ever ask to meet with him or see her nephews though.  Her brother hasn't seen her since his wedding in August 2013, this was the last time we saw her as well. He is not good at keeping in touch as he doesn't believe any of her stories, or my sister, and knows what devastation she has caused. We also rang my sister's house to speak to DD to wish her happy christmas like we do each year, and as always we got the answer machine so we left a message. And nothing.
We know where she lives while with my sister, but not the address where she is while at university. The reason we don't go around and knock on her door is because she told us many times in the early days not to contact her, to call or visit. We think her home with my sister is somewhere she at least feels safe, and we don't want her to worry that we may call round at anytime. Her threats of suicide have made us very aware of upsetting her, so this is something we think is better if we don't do. Lots of friends have asked why we don't just go round there. It would not do any good, we can't risk pushing her or making her more ill than she is.
Do you have any news on your DD and GD?
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 09:26:41 AM »

Hello!
My heart goes out to you as the circumstances are no where near anything you can control. How frustrating and terrifying. I read your post and felt as if I were in some sort of nightmare. Wow!
Sadly, this a somewhat common story that I have heard by several people. It begins with a loving aunt and a school social worker. I wish there was something you could do to reconnect with your daughter. I can't imagine the pain you have been through.
My thoughts are with you. Hang in there and mourn, mourn mourn. This is such a tremendous loss.


Hi Daisy123.
Thank you for your kind words. You are right, so many people have been through situations like ours. Thanks to this website and forum I am finding out so much. In a way it helps as it reinforces it to me that we are not to blame, but the stories can be so upsetting as well. I do say it is almost worse than bereavement as we cannot move on, we 'grieve' every so often, then it gets a bit better, then something crops us and we go through the grieving process again. Our problem has always been with the school counsellor and my sister. Without these two I think our DD would have stayed and we would not be in the situation we are now. She would still have BPD but we could have helped her and the family would not be split. My sister still insists that DD does not have BPD so we can only think she is not getting the right kind of treatment or therapy. My sister says DD has PTSD, but she won't tell us why other than say how she has reacted to her upbringing. Our daughter was doted on, loved and cherished, had everything she wanted, went on holiday to Disneyworld 5 times with us and my sister came with us. We moved her to private school when she said the bullying was bad at the local state school. She loved private school at first but then that became a huge problem to her. I could go on and on! I started to write a book about our experience but have stopped for a while as it was getting me very depressed to read and remember what had happened to us all. But I will pick it up again someday.
Anyway, how are you getting on?
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 06:33:28 PM »

hi whototurnto

I can only imagine how difficult this is for you.  Hard also that your she hasn't seen your son... .they really do push those away that are closest to them.  Luckily my DD is in touch with my youngest daughter in our home state now.  She has been babysitting periodically and sending me pictures of my GD as I've still not heard from her, so I'm very grateful for that.

It is good for her to know that you care though by sending her cards etc, although she doesn't show it, I'm sure it means a lot to her. 

I'm just about ready to try that for myself the first time.

Btw, I'm reading Shari Manning's book "Learning to love someone with BPD".  It's been very helpful. 

Hang in there, we are all in the same boat and it helps to talk to other people :-)
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« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2018, 06:51:21 AM »

 

Hi whototurnto

I just wanted to check in with you and see how you're doing.   I continue to be very moved by your story and I hope there has been some small positive steps for you, even if it is a better level of acceptance or other positive things happening in your life.

Merlot
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« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2018, 09:40:36 AM »

Hi Merlot

You are so kind to remember me. I haven't been on the boards for a week or so as I found reading all the posts upsetting, so many people are going through so much pain. I have re-read your post on the board, and there are lots of things that ring so true in how your DD behaves, that matches my DD. Your daughter wanting the apology - ours went through a phase of doing that. We apologised so many times, in letters, in phone calls, in cards. It was never good enough as according to DD the apology wasn't genuine. My sister wrote to me a few years ago and said in her opinion we needed to apologise and mean it otherwise we would never have a relationship with DD. My sister said we should apologise for things even if we hadn't done anything. We wrote a beautiful 3 page letter to DD, we apologised for reading her emails, how she was feeling, we said sorry over and over. We had no reply from DD, but my sister emailed me and said it wasn't good enough. At that moment I knew nothing would be good enough if that letter wasn't.
I'm sorry to go off at a tangent there. For us nothing has changed. I did find a new photo of DD on the internet recently, she's not on FB but every now and then I search her friends photos and found her in one. She was smiling, looked happy and healthy. That's all we can hope for.
I am not working at the moment and so have been writing the story of what happened. I have been going through all emails from 2009 when we first found out, and I am sad to see how much my sister and I did together, how much we laughed at silly emails, at programmes we watched. We holidayed together, she was at our house 3 times a week at least. Now I don't ever want anything to do with her again. All contact has been severed because of what she's done to the family. I've lost my daughter and my sister.
As you say to me Merlot, keep strong. You never know when things may change for us. I hope it's not too far in the future. As I get older I worry about how little time is left.

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« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 05:56:21 PM »

Hi whototutnto?

I just want to say how sorry I am to hear what you are going through, I hadn’t read your story before and I have to say, what a truly heartbreaking story it is. Even through all the heartache your love for your daughter comes shining through.

I can understand how you have been feeling, finding it difficult after reading so many distressing stories. I also felt like that when I first joined, sometimes I felt that I just didn’t belong here. But I kept coming back, and I am so glad that I did. The enormous support I received from fellow members pulled me through, it helped me live from day to day and it taught me that life can go on. It’s a different life though, not the one that I had envisioned and it is getting easier. Not all the posts here are upsetting, some are quite uplifting and offer hope. Have you read some of these posts? This is one by wendydarling posts.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=322370.0

This one is by Yepanotherone

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=317714.0

You write about all the apologies to your daughter not being good enough, I too apologised to my uBPD son. Again and again and again. I apologised for things I’d said or done and I apologised for things that I hadn’t said or done. Sometimes he accepted the apology and sometimes he didn’t, but even when he did accept an apology it wouldn’t be too long before it was forgotten and everything would just kick off yet again. So I do understand how this all makes you feel.

You say that you are writing the story of what happened, how are you finding that? Are you finding it beneficial?

I too wonder sometimes about the future and how much time I might have left as I grow older. That in itself can be extremely upsetting so I try now to not worry about it. Some things you just can’t change, all you can do is accept them.

I’m sending you a big hug from me x.   
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If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading ~ Lao Tzu
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2018, 03:27:25 AM »

Hi whototurnto

I’m joining this party a little late.

It’s heartbreaking to read this thread and I’m so very sorry to learn about your situation. I’m not going to go into a long response about how you must be feeling. I really do understand how dwelling on the past can be therapeutic but also emotionally draining and, as you’ve mentioned it’s affected you recently,  Let’s just say, you’ve had a tough tough time and miss your daughter greatly.

Excerpt
My husband is a great support but he has gone through exactly the same as me, and we have talked about it with each other until we've worn the topic out! He hurts badly, we talk about DD on a daily basis with each other, sometimes it's because a small thing has reminded us of her, other times in a more upset way and it brings us down. I'm sure we're all doing this in our lives.

I found that my husband and I were at different stages in the process. I was doing the reading, learning and trying out new skills - I moved forwards. He remained in a state of pain and resentment for longer than me bevause I set myself in a healing path first. I’d falter, perhaps reacting to my son27 or maybe even reacting to my husbands state of mind/mood. We definitely fed off each other at times. I started to identify this, say to him “I’m sorry you’re feeling xxxx but I can’t listen as I don’t want to join you in that”.  We both got better acknowledging our own emotions and consciously didn’t talk about our son27 as much.

We both felt we’d done everything possible and it was time to get on with our lives. Detachment is a long long journey. It couldn’t fully happen until we’d completely accepted our own situation and of course our son’s too.

His life wasn’t wasn’t ever going to be the one we’d hoped for.

Our life wasn’t going to be the one we’d wanted either.

Life’s just not fair. We had a choice. Spend the rest of our lives feeling sorry about that OR find a way to be happy.

Can it actually be possible to find happiness when life hasn’t turned out like we wanted?

Yes.

Our lives turned around when I started to look outside instead of inwards. I chose to go back to college at 51. I got to working on better communication skills on the forum and armed myself up with a toolkit to help me interact with others. Our lives have transformed and we are better because of it.

For what it’s worth my son27 didn’t start to mature until 25, he’s a late starter. He had a lot of bad memories like your daughter but I’ve got to say I didn’t have a character like your sister in my situation!

Only time will tell what happens with your daughter, hopefully as she emotionally develops she can see another perspective. In the meantime, you’ve got the opportunity to develop yourselves and improve the relationships you do have in preparation for a possible day in the future when she reaches out to you.

Hugs

LP

Ps.  You ever heard of the Karpman triangle? . Boy oh boy, I flitted around that for years!  Any thoughts?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle
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     I did my best. He told me I wasn’t good enough. White
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2018, 04:30:02 AM »

Hi Merlot
I have been writing the story of what happened. I have been going through all emails from 2009 when we first found out, and I am sad to see how much my sister and I did together, how much we laughed at silly emails, at programmes we watched. We holidayed together, she was at our house 3 times a week at least.

Hi whototurnto

Given that we have both been cut off from our daughters, we unfortunately travel a similar path. It must be so difficult to come to terms with the role your sister plays in enabling the situation  , however I'm really glad to hear your daughter appears happy and well from pictures, that must be comforting for you 

I'm trying to reflect fondly about all the wonderful times my DD27 and I spent together as these will always sustain me into the future irrespective of what happens with the uncertainty of BPD.

I have just ordered a book called "Help and Healing for Mothers of Estranged Adult Children" Sheri McGregor.  I'm looking forward to reading this as I'm very challenged by how I should move forward with my grief.

So glad you keep coming here and sharing.

Merlot
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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2018, 05:30:59 AM »

Hi whototurnto

I also meant to add, that I think it's wonderful that you are writing your story.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  I hope that is really healing for you.  

Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards
Merlot

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Whototurnto?

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« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2018, 11:32:07 AM »

Hi

Thank you Lollypop for your words. I was particularly moved by this:

 "His life wasn’t wasn’t ever going to be the one we’d hoped for.

Our life wasn’t going to be the one we’d wanted either.

Life’s just not fair. We had a choice. Spend the rest of our lives feeling sorry about that OR find a way to be happy.

Can it actually be possible to find happiness when life hasn’t turned out like we wanted?

Yes."

I understand and agree completely. Your words really struck a chord with me. And the Karpman triangle! I had not heard of it until recently on these boards, but Wow it describes us exactly!

And Feeling Better - thank you for your kind words and wisdom. I am reading the posts a little at a time. I can't believe how many people are affected by BPD, it's truly heartbreaking.

Hello again Merlot. Thank you for your words. Let me know how you find the book, if it's helpful at all. I find writing the story cathartic in some ways, upsetting in others. I tend to do a bit at a time, flitting all over the place as I remember things. I've done 80 pages so far, mostly the period 2009 to 2010... .As I read all emails again I can't believe we lived through some of the stuff. I'll let you know if I ever finish the tome!

Have a good weekend everyone! x
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