I will not go back unless she comes to me

[sladezy]

Hi, first time posting for me but I have been reading the forums here and some are very relatable. Firstly I should probably clarify my partner or ex partner currently is not formally diagnosed with BPD but I see significant similarities to some of these stories and relatable books I've read in the traits that she is showing and her sister who went through the same childhood is formally diagnosed.

My Ex and I share 2 children and we're together for 3 years and breaks up with me at the same time each year, this time being the longest and most damaging. Our youngest is biologically my child and our eldest is not however her biological father is not around at all and I have been in her life since she was 6 months old.

Our relationship is good and function for the most part and out of the blue she doesn't love me. I beg for awhile then give up and she pulls me back in. First time I stopped over to clean the fish tank and see the oldest daughter and she grabbed me at the door and kissed me and said she was feeling much better after 1 online councilling session because I was releaved the ordeal was over I didn't question it. Things got really good after that and along came baby number 2, about 2/3rds of the way through the pregnancy and the same time of the year again, she doesn't love me it's never going to work, the same words and actions as the time before. We were about the get our own place together at this point aswell. Same thing I begged for awhile gave up though fairly distressed and we weren't talking much if at all by then and her mother rang me because they needed help moving her belongings to her new house, after that she was happy to have me around again and things were good again. I officially moved in there after the birth of our child. Time 3 and the current time I've been kicked out of the house and now being forced into Co parenting because it's never going to work, she's never loved me, I'm emotionally abusive, she's been trapped in the relationship all this time. She's refusing to reconcile despite all my efforts, refusing to admit she needs help and will not speak to me about anything if it is not directly about the children.

The signs she shows during these periods are, passive / aggressive, black and white thinking without listening to reason, she thinks in black n white alot but will usually see sense when presented with the facts, impulsive spending, excessive and constant cleaning of everything in the house, plays the victim, refuses to believe recounts that aren't her own.  :)ismisses anything or has a reason for everything that isn't inline with her story. Terrible short term memory and projecting everything at me.

I've been reading and trying to learn different communication methods to better deal with her regarding the children because at the moment I keep getting baited into arguments. I've been trying to implement no contact for awhile just to let things settle and to deal with my own emotions but she will contact me every day or every second day if I ask for space. Usually about nothing at all or trivial things that aren't overly important. I asked her to send correspondence via email but it doesn't happen.

I genuinely love this women and what her and my family unit to be whole, however unrealistic that seems at the present moment. I will not go back unless she comes to me and makes an effort to help herself as I don't want to sent the back n forth example for our children. For now I have no choice but the respect her wishes and get on with it.

Some support and advice would be awesome would be awesome from the community even if this story is recycled and seemingly common.

Ultimately my goals would be
-Protect my own well-being and provide as much stability for the kids as I can.
-Encourage her to seek help both for herself and for the relationship.
-Reunite my family unit.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi sladezy,

Great that you've decided to post and engage the community here! You are right, many of us have a lot in common, but also important differences as well.

I can relate to the pain of dealing with someone with severe black and white thinking and memory issues - that's for sure! Sometimes I would think we could overcome the problems, others I would just throw my hands up in the air and wonder why I must face such overwhelming challenges in life with almost no support.

You say you want her to make an effort to help herself. Is she open to that? Is she aware of BPD?

Please keep posting and engaging other's on their threads too - there are many others in similar situations and they will be along to support!

take care, pearl.

[sladezy]

Hey pearlsw thanks for getting back to me.

I have expressed my concerns in many ways (some positively and some negativity due to my own frustration). There are a number of responses I recieve for example, I'm making excuses for the relationship breakdown, claims she is fine, even at times outbursts of not having to prove her sanity, while I try to reassure her it is not about a diagnosis or being right or wrong it's about getting help to set a good example for the children. Last time I suggested it I got sworn at repetitively. I guess Ive pressed for too long and she's sick of it now. Once she asked me to present her with examples of my concerns but she had closed off illogical responses and reasons for all of them invalidating everything I'd said. I've backed right off now to hopefully let things cool down and hopefully she will in time cool down or want to reconcile. I don't think I will pursue her again unless she takes that step as much as it hurts to admit I have to respect her decision and feelings as they are.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi sladezy

I'm sorry to hear about your pain and the frustration and worry about your kids. Unfortunately, we are all in the same boat. At least, we get it.

I hear "we are done" more often than "good morning". For me it's every 10-30 days, but we can't live appart unless she gets a job or someone else to selter them. So we avoid each other for a while, and maybe she comes back, or certain closeness is restored. I should think: She doesn't mean it, you'll see in 3 days. But everytime it feels real. 

You case sounds like a much more regular cycle. What would you say triggers this? What happens once a year around that time?

You can't ask her to go to therapy when the disregulation is on.  I hope you have a chance when the reconciliation is in progress. She must be suffering when she pushes you away, it would be good if you get her to talk about that. When she admits to have pain (emotional pain), you can pitch therapy as "you deserve it" instead of "you need it".

You sound like a really nice person. I hope she comes around.

Have you read any books on this?

What do you think it was the key for her to want you back the other 2 times?

[sladezy]

Hey JoeBPD81 thanks for sharing, you situation sounds like a recurring nightmare :s I'm sorry to hear that.

It's hard to say what happens at this time of year, it seems to be around the time her father will visit or she's visits him. He did live on the other side of the country but now lives in another county. Alternate to that I would say a step up or milestone in the relationship, moving in together, having a child and we were about to buy a house this time. It seemed like university breaks were always worse times too and while she was off university with the baby there were no issues.

I've read stop walking on eggshells which was recommended to me by a councillor and lots of websites surrounding the issues and relationships and parenting.

[sladezy]

I'm probably kidding myself saying I won't try contact again if she doesn't come back to me on her own accord but for now I have to stay focused on that idea.

[sladezy]

I'm also getting no support from her family or friends. Some family believe something is wrong but aren't prepared to say / do anything or even acknowledge my real concerns. The grandmother who likely has something going on aswell is more concerned with herself not getting sleepovers with the kids.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

How are you doing? How's the "focus" going? I'm struggling, too, to not reach out at times.

The family and friends thing is tough - it sounds like you've tried to reach out, how did that go? Does she know you're reaching out? You said that some believe something is wrong but aren't prepared to say or do anything. What would you like to see from them?

Good luck with this - we all know it's so hard!

-L

[sladezy]

Hey lighthouse9,

I seem to be moving forward with my life and getting my focus back at work but at the same time there is still a lingering longing for her to contact me and be remorseful.

Some of her family agree something is not right but say I have to except it. None have questioned her motive or suggested other solutions to her to my knowledge and say it's just how it is. Her friends aren't that close to her 1 is newer that our relationship and the other is an old school friend, both say she seems fine.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

I hear you. I'm in a similar place - doing what I need to do but the longing is definitely there. What does moving forward with your life look like? Any hobbies or anything you're looking forward to?

I hate the "it's just how it is" with family. It's been such hard work for me to try to check my enabling tendencies, especially when I know that enabling might be the only way I get to have a relationship with her. If I want to be close, I have to play her game and "expect it" as you put it. I refuse, because I also know that not enabling her is the best thing for both of us - whether together or not. However, nothing is going to change unless other people in her life stop the enabling, too. It's crazy making, as my therapist would say.

What does progress look like for you? Can you make that progress without her family and friends on board?

Good luck,

-L

[anon156]

Hey lighthouse9,

I seem to be moving forward with my life and getting my focus back at work but at the same time there is still a lingering longing for her to contact me and be remorseful.

Some of her family agree something is not right but say I have to except it. None have questioned her motive or suggested other solutions to her to my knowledge and say it's just how it is. Her friends aren't that close to her 1 is newer that our relationship and the other is an old school friend, both say she seems fine.

know how you feel about the longing too, even though me and my partner dont have children i have been though it many times

be strong

[sladezy]

lighthouse9,

Moving forward for me looks like, focusing on my job and the kids and studying in my little free time I have now. I've been reading and walking the dog of an afternoon. I was into mountain bike riding but I have a lower back / leg pain preventing me from doing that lately not that I would have the time anyway.

Progress for the situation for me what be her acknowledging there is an issue and that I am not it and seeking the right types of help to resolve the issues we have. Right now she wont talk to me unless it's about the kids. When she drops the kids off she let's herself in uninvited and usually overstay her minimal welcoming.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

We're in similar places it sounds like. I've been trying to focus more at work and spend less time strategizing how to navigate this situation or learn about BPD/how to support her. I used to mountain bike, too, and would love to get back into it- but alas, similar issue, I have some injuries that will make that tough. I'm getting back into writing music and writing in general. The creative outlets are good distractions and sometimes they even help me take this "thing" I'm in, hold it out in front of me, and look at it from a different angle. I'm still waking up and wondering how the hell things got to this place so quickly. I'm really glad you're finding some of your own moving forward. I keep reminding myself that it's a testament to my own mental health that I can even consider a "forward," no matter how badly I want to sit on the ground and just give in sometimes.

Your notion of progress sounds absolutely rational, and again, I have a similar definition. Are there boundaries that you can put in place that show what you're not willing to negotiate on, like entertaining that you're the issue? I get that will all have a role in relationships, but sometimes when I hear my W talk about me as the issue all I can hear is projection, so then I wonder at a certain point why I even let myself entertain these conversations anymore, especially since I've done enough validation and support. I am lucky that she recently got into DBT and acknowledges an issue, but now she's swinging the other direction - the victim direction. She has big issues according to her now, and she has no control and this is just who she is and I'm just a "person in her life" because she's unable to feel what people are supposed to feel, therefore don't expect anything from her. I'm not sure I would call this progress. Thus, my real task lately has been trying to figure out what kind of progress I could really count on... .and unfortunately I'm banging my head against the wall when I try to include her on any of those versions of progress.

What would happen if you played by her rules to only talk if its just about the kids, and maybe didn't even let her in the house or found ways to minimize the time she spends there?

[JoeBPD81]

How are you both doing today Sladezy and lighthouse9?

I'm glad you found each other, it doesn't happen as often as we'd like, that members that are in a similar place find each other to share their experience and be stronger together.

Thinking you are alone and that no one understands what you are going through is one of the worst parts of this, and loging into bpdfamily helps you realize you are not alone, there are literaly thousands of people in similar places.

Take care and I hope I hear from you.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Joe,

Yes - I'll echo what you said, it's great to find people in a similar place, though I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Without violating patient privacy entirely, my therapist made some remarks yesterday to suggest that my wife might be lying to me about seeing a DBT therapist in the same practice. I wouldn't be surprised, either. The voracity of her lies make it hard to find anything that feels true. I was hopeful, given that she said she was going to this place and recognized the need for DBT. But, it would be 100% possible for her to lie about it and she hasn't given me much to go on, while asking that I respect her privacy and not ask about counseling. If it's true that she's made this up, it just takes the sickness to a whole new level. Lying about an affair is pretty typical affair behavior. Lying about going to DBT because you recognize your borderline traits and want to turn things around - that just feels really sad and hopeless.

So, when people ask me how I'm doing right now, my response is "strapped in, locked and loaded." She leaves soon for a 6 week training and I expect severe dysregulation and no divorce papers before then, aka more uncertainty. So, given that I'm not ready to file for divorce myself yet, I'm strapped in, locked and loaded. Sometimes I feel like all we can do is weather the storm.

If she's lying about counseling, then there is no progress to be had right now. Once she leaves town, I expect to take the head space to figure out my next steps. Until then, I punt. What else (besides full no contact) can you do with a person who can tell you they see all their problems and need help, but then don't follow through? Sometimes no action is the only good action.

How are you Sladezy?

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks for the update, I'm sorry to her she's lying about Therapy, as you said, it is sad. What frustrates me most is the amount of effort that we spend in letting them know we are not enemies. If she has a problem with the therapy, she could tell you, and you would be understanding.

I really get you when you say that you feel that sometimes we can only weather the storm.  I get surprised often, that I think I'm gonna get a lecture for not paying her attention, and when I've been doing my own things, she's much calmer.

6 weeks alone can help you make sense of your own thoughts and desires.

DBT is very hard on them, they 25% love it / 75% hate it. It's about facing their fears. Forcing themselves to learn how to do things they've been avoiding all their life.

Imagine you are terrified of spiders. To get what you want, you need a 10 seconds walk through a street full of spiders. They assure you, they don't bite. To avoid that street, ang get to your goal, you need to do a longer route of 2 hours, with many posibilitis of getting lost in the way and not reaching your goal. All your life you've taken that 2nd route, and you've lost your goal many times. DBT is training to go through the spiders.

After you've gone 100 times and no one bit you, you know you can take that route. But the first 99 times, is still terrifying, and you can't trust the person who is telling you it's OK.

We can understand that. If only they'd tell us, instead of lying (or blaming, or leaving... .).

Can you face this break with a positive spirit? 6 weeks no drama, sound awesome to me.

I hope the sun will come up after this storm. Best of luck.

[lighthouse9]

Thanks Joe! I'm going to split this one off for a thread of my own into the conflicting board, since I'm in much more of a conflicted place right now.

Sladezy, how are you doing? Any progress, or has the definition of progress changed for you at all?

[sladezy]

Hey lighthouse9,

Sorry for the radio silence, if been busy with work and the kids over the last week. Nothing has changed really but I'm just pushing through. I did try to talk to her once but it wasn't at all productive. I've switch back abit from longing to anger or disdain lately so haven't had her on my mind as much but I'm sure that will likely change again before long. How's things going with you.

[sladezy]

Today started by telling me she's filing for child support, even though I have the kids the majority of the time.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi sladezy,

I'm sorry things are going south. We try to do our best, but no one can ask us to be perfect. We fail, we are less than centered and focused and regulated... .So we gather ourselves and we try to do it better the next time. We take in a lot, so getting frustrated and angry is completely understandable.

Having said that, we can't expect others to be the grown up in the relationship, we have to be, if we want to make it work. Not fair, but we can only change ourselves. I'm not saying you have to change somehting in particular. I just want to encourage you to stand up, and keep fighting for what you want. It is a lonely and unfair job, when we don't have support from the person we love. So we have to support ourselves.

Sometimes quaterbacks throw an interception due to bad luck or to a very good defensive play. It's not their fault. It is unfair... .But it is needed for them and the team that they forgive themselves quickly, and also that they take charge of the next play immediately. That's the spirit.

Maybe you need to post in the legal board for some advice about the situation. Is she actually filling something, or is she thinking about doing it?

Good luck, and take care of yourself and the kids.

[sladezy]

Hey JoeBPD81,

Thanks for the words, I follow what you're saying. The more I read the more I see ways to help the situation but ultimately I am only 50% of the equation and I've found nothing to help me deal with the resistance I'm being met with from her. Which in turn leads back to frustration and anger. Her behaviour is getting to the point now where it's actually getting easier to handle getting over her, however still not what I would like ultimately. I dont feel like I have any other choice because it takes two to tango. I'm remaining patient but I don't contact her unless she contacts me (9 times out of 10 anyway) n it usually ends poorly. Communication just doesn't work. I feel like I need her to take a step towards me for a change but either admitting she has a things she needs to work on or that she does want to atleast try to save the relationship and without that I feel like nothing will change.

[JoeBPD81]

Hey JoeBPD81,

Thanks for the words, I follow what you're saying. The more I read the more I see ways to help the situation but ultimately I am only 50% of the equation and I've found nothing to help me deal with the resistance I'm being met with from her. Which in turn leads back to frustration and anger. Her behaviour is getting to the point now where it's actually getting easier to handle getting over her, however still not what I would like ultimately. I dont feel like I have any other choice because it takes two to tango. I'm remaining patient but I don't contact her unless she contacts me (9 times out of 10 anyway) n it usually ends poorly. Communication just doesn't work. I feel like I need her to take a step towards me for a change but either admitting she has a things she needs to work on or that she does want to at least try to save the relationship and without that I feel like nothing will change.

I have those exact thoughts and feelings all the time. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to help (or get close to) someone that is fighting against you. Not only not helping, but fighting your help. We all well know that feeling.

It feels incredibly lonely when you don't have hope that she would take that step, that she just doesn't do that. It really sucks.

And still, if we drop the ball, we lose 50% of our chance to have what we want. Don't we?

You can't fight the frustration and anger by fixing this. You can fight the frustration and anger by attacking the frustration and anger. With things that have nothing to do with her. Wether you go back with her or not, you are stuck with yourself for the rest of your life. So you need to work on yourself, on doing nice things for yourself, on being able to reach a state of mind where you are at your best. You want to fix step 3, but first you need to focus on step 1.

You would agree that your frustration and anger are easier foes than the fixing of your relationship.

This helps me cope, not only with things related to BPD. We always think about happyness in the future: When I get this, if I get that... .Life is today, and we can only be happy in the present, today. But we need to chose to work to be happy in the moment, or the happiest, given the circumstances.

What's keeping me from being OK right now? Stress? Then I do something to tackle that, even one minute of breathing exercises. Worry? Then I'm giving myself permision to distract me for a while... .

We can regulate our emotions, not easy, but we can. It will help us to deal with people that can't.

Look, I'm giving you "tough love", and telling you to take control and do things. But don't take me wrong, I know how hard it is, I'm often drowned in my own problems, and they paralize me, and I don't feel like doing anything, or having any hope. I wish you didn't have to work to get it and you got the affection and companionship we all deserve.

[sladezy]

Hey Joe,

I follow what you are saying and I'm doing all that and seeing slow results. The frustrating part is that doing that doesn't seem to address any real issues, infact it just further distances the issues all together. Your thoughts?

[JoeBPD81]

Hi,
in what way it distances the issues?

There are times when rushing things might help... .But it usually makes things worse. It takes time. And it is confusing because the progress is not lineal, but bumpy. There are moments when we feel we've never been worse, and it is hard to look at the big picture outside that moment.

If and when you know you can do something that it's going to help, go for it! I'm not saying stay away and isolate. I'm saying when you don't know what to do, working on yourself always helps you be ready for your next action.

When we say we can only change ourselves, it doesn't mean that when we change, she's gonna change too, and everything will be OK. It means that we have to accept she might not change at all, or her changes are not predictable to us. She has her own journey. We can work on our 50% and see results in ourselves, or we can build a Tag Majal in the yard and see her ignoring it, and feel frustrated and angry.

When you get frustrated and angry with her, does that help with the issues? More often than not, it makes them worse. So it pays, with time, to be able to remain calm, and focused. For me, arguments that lasted 3 days, when I played my part in the arguing, now are an hour of bad vibe. Maybe I'm 3 hours later still worried and a bit angry thinking in circles... .But when I can think, I know it's much better than those 3-day arguments we used to have. It's better for me, and it's better for her.

I wish I could say, "do this and tomorrow everything will be OK", but this is a marathon, not a sprint.

In the end, even if her path takes her away from you. The work you have done on yourself won't be lost.

For now, you want her back. I want you to be/feel better, so you are ready to fight for her, and the relationship, without falling in the same circles you used to fall in the past. Does it make sense?

How's the situation now?

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

I've been MIA on this thread - apologies - but I wanted to jump in and echo some of what JoeBPD is saying:

When we say we can only change ourselves, it doesn't mean that when we change, she's gonna change too, and everything will be OK. It means that we have to accept she might not change at all, or her changes are not predictable to us. She has her own journey. We can work on our 50% and see results in ourselves, or we can build a Tag Majal in the yard and see her ignoring it, and feel frustrated and angry.

I've been trying to take this kind of advice to heart lately, as brutal as it feels at times, but I'm realizing that the more brutal reality is trying to control any situation with my STBX beyond controlling my own behaviors and reactions. I've been working with a coach that's been helping me to consider the space between stimulus and response to see if I can lengthen it with my STBX. Sometimes, that means physically walking away from a conversation and taking a time out. Sometimes it literally means cueing myself with the word "pause" or "breathe" before responding to something. Mostly though, it's meant spending a lot of time thinking about my values and my character, and what kind of person I want to be in this process. The more I think about those things, the more I can then think about what a person with these kinds of values would do in the kinds of situations I've found myself in lately. What would a loving person do? What would a clear-headed person do? What would a strong person do? A person with integrity? The more I map these things out for myself, the more I can see myself being that person again. Then, it becomes easier to think about that space between stimulus and response.

Remember that people with BPD tend to mirror us - so while we can't expect them to change, we can lead the way to change by going there ourselves, and invite them along without expectation. If they don't follow, then we have to work through the grief, and hey, not for nothing, but at least we CAN work through hard emotions. At least we can hold conflicting, paradoxical emotions within ourselves at the same time without completely losing ourselves. For me, this looks like the following: I love you, I am so sad to see this end, I feel like I would do ANYTHING to rescue us from this - AND I respect you, I respect myself, I will not be a victim to impulsivity, dissociation, avoidance, infidelity, or dishonesty - nor will I give you opportunities to make me a victim.

It sucks to sit with both of those things at once - but boundaries aren't easy (I feel like we don't say that enough). Boundaries always come with the risk that something we want won't want us or be accessible to us once we put the boundaries in place. But, in those moments, we have to remember why they exist.

What are some of the conflicting, paradoxical things you're trying to hold on to at once? Is there any strength you can find in your ability to hold on to both, or any boundaries that can help you either hold on to both or let go of something?

Wishing you all the best, be gentle with yourself,

-L

[sladezy]

Hey guys, thanks for the words. Been really struggling with any kind of response. Just gone blank all over. Don't know what's right n wrong anymore and just blah. Hope drifts further n further all the time.

[JoeBPD81]

How are you holding up today?

I've been feeling low on energy, and posting was a big effort, I know what you mean, and I'm sorry.

We are still here, and we are rooting for you.

[lighthouse9]

Agreed - low energy as well. Definitely cheering you on though and here when you have the energy to post.

[sladezy]

Hi guys,

So much has been going on its probably useless trying to spell it all out in a recount. Everything is an argument because I'm standing my ground when she wants things her way. That makes me an assemble and I'm being difficult. She's filed for child support, has an account on tinder and about 10 new friends on Facebook with single guys posting comments on her Facebook. This could mean she's looking or sleeping around but I can't confirm that. She's not keeping the kids in their routine when she has them (naps etc) and they are always sick or have a runny nose when I get them back. She can't pack their bags for daycare with the things I pack them to go to daycare in, shoes, hats, drink bottles etc. I'm having to rebuy atleast one item a week then the opposite things come back the next week. I ask rather frustrated that she pack the things every week but it doesn't change. It's been happening for 6 weeks. I know sometimes my reactions are still having a negative effect but it's really hate to play it cool when I almost feel compelled to knock her out(I wouldn't act on this and I'm venting but that's what it feels like). Even communication with her mother is starting to breakdown because when I get honest with her she lashes out at me we stupid claims of things I'm not even doing.

I'm finding it hard separating the person from the illness without being invalidating of her feelings. I'm struggling with putting boundaries in place without being an ass for it and my requests to have no contact aren't being respected. I wrote her a message spelling out why I don't want to communicate and how I intend for it to be a permanent thing until such times as she takes responsibly for herself and seeks help. I didn't expect her to reply but instead I was told she doesn't understand and then got attacked for other unrelated things.

Through all this she has remained adiment she no longer wants to work on our relationship because there is nothing there but she agreed in anger numerous times she would do "group therapy" as she calls it with me because she thinks it's what I need to get passed all of this but that in no way means she intends on resolving the issues. I've never acted on booking the therapy since I feel like she will just stonewall or I'll just be paying money to have an argument again. I feel like it will just be another emotionally draining exercise with very little outcome. Do you guys think I should take a chance on this and see what happens but go in there well prepared with things written out so that I don't lose track of the topics. Keeping in mind we did do one couples councilling and she was considering things differently then after one solo session she was closed off again. 

Aside from all this I am doing alot better with pushing on in my own life but I do get very little to no time to myself between work, kids and study until my course is finished hopefully in a few months. There is a constant empty feeling within me because of all this and that makes everything hard. I feel as though at some point if this situation doesn't get better it's going to be the death of me. I'm tied to this women now through our kids and unless I learn to cope it's just going to be one drama after another. Hope you guys are going alright sorry it's been awhile between checking in.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy,

It sounds like she's making your life hell. I'm so sorry. You're absolutely doing the right thing for your kids right now.

Where are you at in terms of your desires for reconciliation? Counseling could help temporarily, but if she's not willing to face her own issues then I'm not very hopeful that couples counseling will do much. My STBX and I did couples counseling, and she lied the whole time (found out later), and then she revealed to me that our couples therapist was "too easy to manipulate." That sure made me feel good about the work we were supposedly doing together. Has she ever expressed any interest in her own counseling?

Have you talked to a lawyer and are you documenting things? It sounds like she wants to fight dirty, and if you haven't already, then it's definitely time to outline your priorities and goals with a lawyer. Are there any ways to take things off your plate? Can you withdraw from a class or anything, or would that make things worse for you?

I'm glad to hear you are standing your ground. Have you tried any of the communication tools or conflict resolution tools on this site? Do they help at all? My STBX calmed down dramatically when I found ways to validate the valid with her, and I could usually get her into a better place to negotiate in order to get some things in writing. I imagine that everything feels invalidating and threatening to her right now, whether that's reality based or not. Is there anything you can do (as much as it sucks) to ease conflict when it arises?

I hear you on the empty feeling. I feel like every morning I wake up and I'm just sucker punched with the reality that nothing is as it was and never will be that way again. I can't open my eyes in the morning without immediately facing this devastating reality and I can't escape it. It's worse now, since I'm spending every moment not at work packing the house and handling logistics related to my pending move. The anger is coming in slowly for me, or at least supreme disappointment. I haven't heard from her since she left town for training for 6 weeks, she didn't say goodbye before she left, and it's clear that she's just cut and run. I'm left packing up a 3 bedroom house by myself for an interstate move that is costing me a ton and she's off starting over with whatever new persona she's decided to mirror this time. It makes me sick to my stomach and I can't wait to wake up somewhere else. The only thing getting me through right now is the reminder that only by going through this will I one day distance myself from it. Only by pushing forward and being brave, even when I feel like the wind has been knocked out of me the second I wake up, will I carve out a new reality.

Keep pushing friend. It absolutely freaking sucks and there are no easy answers or moments. Distract yourself when you can (there's nothing wrong with distraction, I'm learning), and keep showing those kids of yours how much they deserve love in all the ways you can show it. We're all here for you and get it.

-L

[sladezy]

Lighthouse9,

I think I would open to reconcile at any point no matter what happened but it would already take a long time to sort out and continually grows out of reach. I wouldn't say I'm waiting for it by any means. My main desire regarding the situation is learning to manage my interactions with her and turn them positive but it's hard since I've already laid down the ultimate boundary that I will not associate or communicate with her unless she wants to get help. I wish I never moved out when she kicked me out but I know I had to leave.

She's never expressed her own interests in her own therapy. I pleaded for her to get a mental health plan and seek councilling. I had to book the doctors appointment and the councillor. She didn't even know why she was going. After her first 30 Min session she come back saying the councillor suggested we don't continue our relationship. When I requested she see someone else it was my fault for choosing this one. She went to two more sessions but all she told me was once because she was feeling guilty and the other because she was struggling with the kids on the one night a week she actually has them by herself.

I've seen a solicitor but they weren't much help. I don't really know what else to do in that regard just yet. The tools on this site are a good read and I can see small results when I try to implement them but I feel like a one trick pony because then I don't know how else to communicate one one thing might work. Which is exhausting in itself.

Sounds like you're in a rough spot but have ultimately made up your mind one way or another. I hope the future looks bright for you once the dust settles and I believe it will be!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sladezy]

And confirmed she's ___ing atleast one other dude.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry to hear how things are. It sounds really exhausting and difficult to deal with all this.

For what I understand she is in denial of having issues, right? You are at the end of your rope, and you have a ton of responsibility, not only with your life and the kids but with dealing with her influence and actions. I hope things settle down a bit.

I wish I had useful tips, I can only tell you to forgive yourself. You are doing more than humanly posible, so you are bound to not get 100% results, it's just normal. Celebrate every little success and move on from things that can't be. There will always be things that you can't control, in your life, and sadly, in your kids' life too. And we have to live with that. We have to focus in what we do control, and not spend a lot of time thinking about what we can't.

Easier said than done. I know, but I wish you the best of luck.

[sladezy]

I've spent today mostly feeling physically ill and wanting to throw up at the thought of her sleeping with one or more other person and potentially while my kids are in the house on her nights. I'm not so much angry or surprised as I am shocked by the reality of it. I don't know if I can even... .I don't even know. It's a kick in the guts while I'm being kicked in the guts. My fears for what our children will be exposed to are sky rocketing and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. I feel like a fool. How could something that seemed so right to me be so wrong. My entire perception of human interaction has been compromised.

[JoeBPD81]

I feel for you. It is a maddening image, you need to distract yourself from it. And it gets better with time.

I was already living appart when I accidentally read a text from my ex's new lover. It was very graphic, and it made me sick too. Even as I didn't want to go back to my ex, the image was sickening. And it felt like a huge betrayal that she had "moved on" so quickly. The truth is that I was also having sex with a new woman, but it didn't feel like a betrayal or moving on on my part, I still spent whole days crying about my ex, and missing her a lot. We are complicated, we compartmentalize for ourselves, but we feel the other person as a whole.

What I say is: even as I was doing the same, it felt awful to know she was doing it. It took me months to forget the sentence I read, I honestly don't remember it now, but I thought It would haunt me forever. I don't wanna try to remember either.

When I started seeing other people, for a very short time, I thought I could still mend things with my ex. My feelings for my ex were so complicated, and getting affection with another person for some hours was simple. It was a way to stop thinking and suffering for an hour or two. In my head I was another person.

I know nothing I say will make it OK. But try your best to understand that that is not about you. She's not the same person that was with you. 

I'm very sorry you are going through this.

[sladezy]

Hi Joe,

So are you back with your partner after all of that?  Or are you still recovering?  How dis you get through it all at the time?.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm still with the person I started dating after leaving my home.

Time healed the wounds although left some scars. The thing that helped most was to stop wondering why, stop blaming myself or my ex, and accepting it was both and nobody's fault at the same time.

I went to therapy, and the T told me I could still love my ex for a long time, that it was OK. But at the same time I could accept we shouldn't live together anymore.

My current RS is damaged due to starting too soon. But that's another story.

[sladezy]

I've not heard from her now in 2 days since she blew up at me for going to her house to get the last of my things uninvited while she was not home. Usually when she is angry with me she will keep texting until I respond, so this new behaviour is extremely unsettling to me but also good in a way I guess.

I've just received high conflict couples in the mail and I'm hoping to learn more about how to stop making things work and how to communicate better.

I find my mind seeing her sexually with another partner even when I'm not directly thinking about it over the last few days. I know she has the right to do whatever she wants since we aren't together and that it probably means very little to her but it's still a painful reality. I still somehow feel betrayed or cheated on. I think this would be my final straw to moving on more easily but I think deep down in my heart I would always want to patch things up with her. This may change with time I'm sure. I can see all the reasons not to invest myself with her but it doesn't change my devotion and desire to have not only her but my family reunited.

[JoeBPD81]

That's the book I have on my night-stand. I read only half. I love Fruzzetti, if you can check his videos on youtube. But the book made me feel I had a too long or impossible way to go. I think there is a time for each book.

You are going to need time to move on from knowing that. You need a combination of allowing yourself to feel bad, and trying not to feel bad, but not being angry at yourself if you don't succeed.

As I watched the dynamic of my divorce, there were times when I could have tried to get back together, and there were times when it was impossible. There wasn't a breaking point, as in: before it was possible, and now it's not. The moments came and go.

If you want her back, you need to be strong, to be able to use that moment when it arrives. If you are down, and feeling betrayed, and resentful... .Chances are you'll let that moment go, or not even see it, or you would present yourself in a light that might push her away.

While that moment doesn't arrive, you can only work on yourself. The best way you can, mate. I know you are broken, and you're not going to be Superman in a week, but try to colect some of the pieces, so you don't feel as broken, and you gather some strength to pick up the next piece.

Things are tough, and unfair. What small thing can you change for the better? What can you give as a present to yourself?

[sladezy]

I will be seeing my ex today when she drops the kids off, my main goal today is going to be stop making things worse. Not sure what to expect out of our meeting today since I haven't heard from her since our last fight 4 days ago which I didn't engage in over text. Usually she keeps messaging me until I reply but this time she didn't.

Do you guys think it's ever too late to try to reverse a break up? Is it going to be a long process to regain trust if I have spent a few months being invalidating and pushing to stay together?

[JoeBPD81]

Personaly I don't think it's too late.

Look, my GF was abused, and the ex-h is a monster, but having kids in common she's talked about going back to him with some arangement. There's always a chance.

But yes, all the process about regaining trust are slow. And they can't be rushed/pushed. Now you have to regain trust in her too, so when the time is right, you can work together towards that.

You are making progress and you have increased your chances to not make things worse. But I would forgive myself if I slipped into old habits, as I know you are derranged, and emotionally exhausted.

Best of luck on that meeting. Tell us how it goes.

[lighthouse9]

I never think it's too late either -and cautiously, very cautiously dream about this. But, my daydreaming about it also includes a list of my boundaries. Also, even more importantly - how am I going to enforce those boundaries if they are crossed?

The biggest thing for me is not only seeing her get into the right kind of counseling, but being included in that process at some point. I won't take her word for it that everything is all better now. Mind you, she hasn't asked me to come back and shows no signs of reconciliation at this point. She's also made it clear that she doesn't want me to be part of her counseling (if she is really getting it, she's already lied about it once). So, my biggest condition for reconciliation, at the moment, isn't even on the table.

So what's that mean in the mean time? Time to do my work.

We don't have kids, so I'm in a different place. But, it also means that we have less reason to try to work this out and once I move next week, we really have no reason to ever see each other physically again unless one of us speaks up and we both agree to let it happen.

Is it worth it to you to learn some of the tools here and cautiously build that trust back? Only you can answer that.

For me, these tools make me a better communicator in general, so I can at least learn them and not feel like I'm just trying to save a marriage that she's making no effort to save. I have other high conflict people in my life that I'd like to have good relationships with, so these tools are good for me to learn regardless.

The work on myself - to deal with some of the codependency and some of my own mental health challenges, well again, those are things I need to do for myself. Will they make me a more suitable partner for her? Yes, if she gets healthy. And, that's not just saying "I will only come back if she gets healthy." It's also saying that a healthy me and a version of her that's still in denial will not work together. Why? Because I'm not as easy to control. In fact, I can look back on some of our downfall and see how much healthier I was becoming in that time - and how inconvenient that might have been for her. It's harder to project on a healthier person.

Maybe think of it like this - If I'm saving money to buy a house with someone, and that person bails, then I still have money saved and can do something else with that money. My expectations might be shattered and I'll have to grieve that, but at least I have an investment that still has value once I get through the grief.

Wishing you all the best man - and don't get down on yourself for the ruminating thoughts of the affair. I still see them and still fill with rage when I do. When I first found out, I could barely eat and was nauseous 24/7.

The thing that helped me put it in perspective was this: this chump was no different than her razorblade or those drinks she shouldn't have had. He was a coping mechanism for something in her that I didn't create and I couldn't fix. She used to cut to deal with her intense emotions. Now she drinks or limits her food or exercises excessively. More recently, she's used sex. What do these things do? Make her feel like she's in control. Help her relieve the pressure. The sex? It helps her feel validated and wanted.

Does it suck being the person who can't validated her or make her feel wanted for some reason? Absolutely. But when painted black, there's so little I can do about that except focus on myself and create my own validation to escape the projection and abuse.

[sladezy]

The drop of went fine guys, I just looked happy to see the girls and excited for the plans I have with them. She's looked at me very weird as I approached but we just discussed the kids alittle. I requested she bring back my TV remote, my bank card and the blue book for our 1 year old. I got my bank card and an engagement party invitation addressed to both of us for one of my friends. I think I picked up that she lied to me twice but I didn't pick it up at the time only afterwards.

I understand that this kind of interaction is best for the kids and best to not cause continued conflict. But I don't understand how it will increase our chances of reconciliation or build trust. I only see her for 5 minutes a week now. I guess I have a chance to improve things but contacting her either via text or phone briefly through the week etc. Maybe try to invite her on a family outting after a few weeks of no conflict?  Tell her how much fun the kids and I have been having and how we would love for her to join us? Or do you think simply being happy and easy going with her might and that I have no real interest in seeing or doing things with her would have more of an effect? 

I know learning the right communication techniques is only going to better myself in the long run regardless of what happens next. I feel like this being civil co-parenting is what she keeps pushing for. So while I defuse the conflict and get on with it I fear that I may be playing into the drama she wants to create? She may turn around n say it works better this way :s

Joe, have you see evidence of the abuse from your GFs ex husband being a monster? I ask this because I wonder if that's just been fabricated to make him look like a bad person / perhaps he has been painted black?  I think that my partner has done this with me to other people to validate what she is thinking about me.

[sladezy]

I am struggling more so today with my anxiety, I feel as if I am jumping out of my skin and can't think clearly. My own desire for progress is distorting my patience. Our youngest daughter seems to have developed a very strong attachment to me and crys whenever I leave the room. This also makes me feel like ___ that I can't be with her every day.

[Radcliff]

I am struggling more so today with my anxiety, I feel as if I am jumping out of my skin and can't think clearly. My own desire for progress is distorting my patience. Our youngest daughter seems to have developed a very strong attachment to me and crys whenever I leave the room. This also makes me feel like ___ that I can't be with her every day.

sladezy, how are you doing today?

When our kids are upset, it is very tough to deal with.  I'm sorry for not being caught up on your thread, but what intervals are you exchanging the kids on?  What percentage of time do you have her?

W.r.t. your children's mom, neutral to slightly warm interactions are very powerful and the best thing you can do.  Nothing negative, and nothing super warm, gushing, or pursuing.  Sending pictures of the kids having fun could go either way.  She might feel overly excluded, or might appreciate it.  You could try one, and ask her if it was OK.  If she receives it well, it could be good.  Sure, invite her to go with you and the kids somewhere, but do it in a just slightly warm way.  If she feels like you really want it, or it's a power thing, she'll likely say no.  You want to project the idea that if she doesn't go, you're totally OK with that, but if she goes, it's a nice bonus.  Perhaps say that the kids would enjoy it.  At the exchange when you hand the kids back, don't seem to be seeking any warmth from her but give details of the kids time with you in a slightly warm tone.  You are calm, confident, and attractive.  You are not the pursuer.

WW

[sladezy]

sladezy, how are you doing today?

When our kids are upset, it is very tough to deal with.  I'm sorry for not being caught up on your thread, but what intervals are you exchanging the kids on?  What percentage of time do you have her?

W.r.t. your children's mom, neutral to slightly warm interactions are very powerful and the best thing you can do.  Nothing negative, and nothing super warm, gushing, or pursuing.  Sending pictures of the kids having fun could go either way.  She might feel overly excluded, or might appreciate it.  You could try one, and ask her if it was OK.  If she receives it well, it could be good.  Sure, invite her to go with you and the kids somewhere, but do it in a just slightly warm way.  If she feels like you really want it, or it's a power thing, she'll likely say no.  You want to project the idea that if she doesn't go, you're totally OK with that, but if she goes, it's a nice bonus.  Perhaps say that the kids would enjoy it.  At the exchange when you hand the kids back, don't seem to be seeking any warmth from her but give details of the kids time with you in a slightly warm tone.  You are calm, confident, and attractive.  You are not the pursuer.

WW

Hey WW that's all good.

At the moment I have the kids 4 nights a week, Friday afternoon until Tuesday morning when I drop them to daycare and she picks them up. So I only see my ex when she drops them off here on Friday afternoons and in past weeks I'd even avoided that by having somebody else here to recieve the kids. I did have the kids 5 nights a week but she whinged until I gave her an extra day. As soon as she got the extra day she filed for child support. She has them Wednesday Thursday Friday. Wednesday the kids are in daycare, Thursday she drops them at her mums n Fridays she goes with them to her Nan's house. Not really fair on the kids I don't think they are getting given a nap on Thursdays or Fridays. 

Today's been ok. I'm still extremely anxious but I've been to the physio which has relieved some chronic pain I've been carrying. I was really struggling for people to talk to yesterday and the day before.

If I ask her to join us or anything of the sort she's likely to get defensive and assume I'm trying to get back together with her. Which is her road block, she doesn't want to hear or see anything that might even make her consider changing her mind. That's what I've been up against for the last 3 months. Though that might be a chance for me to validate her feelings for a change.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm sorry I've not been here, mate.

I'm on edge myself with her suicide ideation, and talks about leaving me alone, and not being a couple anymore (while we live together and the kids call me dad). I don't know where I stand, and coming here makes the wounds more present. Also, I feel I can't manage my own family situation, so I shouldn't be advicing other people.

Joe, have you see evidence of the abuse from your GFs ex husband being a monster? I ask this because I wonder if that's just been fabricated to make him look like a bad person / perhaps he has been painted black?  I think that my partner has done this with me to other people to validate what she is thinking about me.

I doubt everything, sadly, I don't know how much a grasp on reality she has. She seems very insightful in general, and then there are blind spots where she can't conceive an idea, a fact, or a memory. That makes me asume she is undertanding one thing, until I see the blind spot, and realize she was understanding something else completely.

I've seen evidence enough. From her ex, her mother, sister, father and grandmother. Enough to make what she says believable. I've seen him, I took the kids to his door, I've listen to his conversations on the phone (with permision), I've talked to the lawyer and saw the evidence. I've seen that in 4 years he hasn't called the kids more than 5-6 times in total, and he's seen them once a year because we delivered them to him. In all of the visits he returned them prematurely, and in anger, calling names to the kids in front of the whole neighborhood. Most of the time they spent with him, he was in a bar, getting drunk. I've seen that she talks the best that she can about him in front of the kids. Having in mind that he has the right to see them, and wanting those visits to be as peaceful as possible.

I know some of what she tells me can be misinterpretations. But there are also facts. And he sounds like a total narcisist, and capable of being very agressive. After a Physh evaluation of him and my GF, the court granted full custody to my GF.

She's uncovering old wounds in therapy, and piling on months of unemployment and depression. She is not the person I knew, she's completely broken. I get it that having "a guy" rescuing her is not a solution she can accept. She wants to be the person that can maintain her own kids. And that others (including me) don't have the power to betray her.

She talks great about me to the kids and other people. Her family thinks I'm a saint. The kids' teachers tell me that I'm a great positive influence in their lives. And that's pretty much the extent of our social circle.

I believe her BPD is mild, but her situation, being cornered, and her past, full of trauma, has her in a imposibly high anxiety level. We both believe she's Asperger's, and that makes it very difficult to get regulated by others. Also, she is anorexic, and she's been years under-nurturing her brain. And that must affect her thinking abilities.

Well that's TMI about my gf. I wish I had a great insight about your situation. Thanks a lot, Wentworth. He's a heavy weight and much wiser than I am.

Hang in there, mate. Keep it up, give the kids and yourself your best.

[sladezy]

Joe,

You've helped me greatly since I found this site so don't under-estimate your ability to have a positive effect on people through generosity and just taking the time out to respond. I understand things are shakey in your own situation and you can offer much right now and that's ok, you need to look after yourself first. I really hope things start to settle or progress for you soon. Take it easy and talk soon. Remember we are all here when and if you need us.

[lighthouse9]

Hey Sladezy and Joe - I've been MIA on here but just catching up, and will write more once I have a chance.

Just wanted to say that I'm thinking about both of you and echo something WW said:

"You are calm, confident, and attractive."

Ok - maybe you aren't feeling this way in this exact moment, but when is the last time you felt like any of those things NOT around your wife/gf?  What was it about those situations or about what you brought to those situations that made you feel that way?

This is the bulk of the work I've been doing outside therapy in a coaching program that caters to guys/masculine folks in the process of losing a relationship. It hasn't been easy, but it's been helpful and some nuggets of wisdom sink in from time to time.

And - another thing I'm learning - if I don't feel like those things, could it be that I need to detach a little and find my center before "entering the arena" per se? I know I'm annoying with the weekly self-care thread, but I think of my self-care as a way to heal my wounds, train my body and mind, and get ready for the next time I might be tested. In time, I may not need these "spurts" of self-care and they hopefully just become healthy habits. But for now, think of what the gladiator does when not fighting.

I'm so sorry to hear about the anxiety Sladezy - and I absolutely get the impatience. My logical mind lit up when I started to realize that we were dealing with BPD (and possibly her being bipolar) because I thought "Oh, ok, I can handle this - we just need to do x, y, z and we'll be ok." Easy enough for me to say - but not easy to convince to someone that has spent their whole life thinking they are threatened and that they only have their maladaptive instincts and behavior to keep them safe.

[sladezy]

Thanks lighthouse I've been reading you're post so I know you've been preoccupied appreciate the kind words and wishing you the strength to get through the transition you're taking.

Wentworth, not sure if you'll read this but I decided to send her some photos of the fun I had with the kids on the weekend, explained alittle about what we got up to and how I thought one of the photos was really cute. She responded saying thankyou and that she really appreciated it. I offered to said more if she would like and she said yes but she usually just puts them on Facebook (I have her blocked on Facebook atm I'm not sure if she realises). I just messaged through some more photos and mentioned that we had done other fun stuff I just had not been able to take photos. She responded "understandable"  so maybe she either didn't really want to chat or felt shame by my statement of not being able to take photos. Maybe she was just busy with the kids too. I just left her with that for now. I wanted to tell her abit more about the bond I'm building with the kids and stuff like that n offer her to join us but I thought I'd wait and keep each conversation to one topic n slowly introduce the next one by one. I mean hopefully she will be able to see the bond n stuff in the photos and wished she was there anyway but I have no idea.

I asked her once on the phone recently if she found it hard while the kids weren't with her because I certainly did. She wasn't able to answer me fumbling around it and finally saying well I know the kids are loved when they are not with me.

[JoeBPD81]

I'm glad she responded well to the pics. In my opinion, when there are good vibrations, let them sink a bit, wait until you push it further. Give her the chance to maybe take the next step herself. I mean enjoy the good for half a day, or a day.

[Radcliff]

Sladezy,

Great news about the pics!  I'm so glad she received them well!  As JoeBPD81 said, I'd go easy.  Do the photos at whatever intensity she responded to initially, and just let time do the work, don't ramp it up.  And do it genuinely -- it's a nice thing to do, regardless of whether it makes her get back together with you.  Somehow I think people have a sixth sense for genuineness or whether we want something.  If you get your head into thinking that you're just genuinely doing it to be nice, then you're not expecting something back, and you won't get frustrated if you get nothing back.  Over time, perhaps you'll pick up one or two more of these ways to connect in a non-pursuing way with her.

lighthouse9, I'd love to have a beer with you and hear more about that program!

WW

[sladezy]

Thanks Wentworth, I was doing this briefly in the beginning when I had them 5 days a week n she responded by thanking me than too. Unfortunately she never returned the favour and things got worse between us n it stopped. As you seen from my post there is abit of a game plan to me doing it, maybe not a game plan but an end goal. Not pursuing but trying to guide or draw her back in as her own doing notby applying pressure. Which makes it really hard when I know she likes being courted.

I'm getting more ok with how things are at the moment every day in terms off "this is my life now" but I really feel like my life is on hold, so I guess that means I'm just still waiting. I kinda feel like she won't come back now because she will think doing so is admitting that I was right. I'd really love to hear / read some stories from people who have navigated this wild sea and ultimately went through hell and got the partner back. I know every situation is different and I don't want to give myself false hope but knowing it's possible and different ways that looked like for different people would maybe be inspiring. I'm starting the get headaches daily and I not sure if this is related to my mental health or not. I've had that big ball of nervous energy in my stomach for so long now.

I fear it really isn't going to get between us and our family will not be as I wish it were. All be in stranger things have happened. I feel as if this time she has a friend or two in her ear pushing the validation and stopping any kind of remission or regret she might have towards reuniting. As she has mentioned that getting back with me would be letting her friends down. I know she has considered it and she's even shown signs of it being good again at times (before I moved out of the house) but obviously other people's thoughts and opinions were holding her back.

[sladezy]

I really feel like I need more support than I am getting in life in general. Maybe I'm rushing things in my mind, this is not uncommon for me. It's really hard to just be "ok" with where I am at right now both physically and mentally but I really feel like I can't change that overnight either. She's coming to drop the kids off in an hour so I'll put on my happy face and play the game again followed by the anxiety and fretting about what or who she will be doing later that night or over the weekend. I've been thinking about writing her a letter validating her feelings and setting some facts using SET. what do you guys think about that? Is it even worth I it?  I even though of writing it but not sending it. I know this girl is the one I want to spend the rest of my life with. I know she is self sabotaging herself, acting against hers and the kids best interests. Lacking logic and reasoning but there is not a thing I can do about it. My backs against the wall. I don't believe her when she has told me she doesn't love me we are just too good together when she's not busy running from me. I don't want to control this person but I who love to be able to guide her back to me at her own pace with no further damage being done.

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

I just read through your thread again to see what I could pick up that might be good to cover.  Sorry if I'm rehashing old ground... .

I wrote her a message spelling out why I don't want to communicate and how I intend for it to be a permanent thing until such times as she takes responsibly for herself and seeks help. I didn't expect her to reply but instead I was told she doesn't understand and then got attacked for other unrelated things.

It's been a while since you said this.  With a little more experience, do you see why this might not have been an effective strategy?

my main goal today is going to be stop making things worse.

It's also been a while since you've said this.  How's your progress been on this?

I know learning the right communication techniques is only going to better myself in the long run regardless of what happens next. I feel like this being civil co-parenting is what she keeps pushing for. So while I defuse the conflict and get on with it I fear that I may be playing into the drama she wants to create? She may turn around n say it works better this way :s

Being civil is always best.  The only two alternatives I can see are behaving poorly, or somehow behaving negatively in a way that makes her think that being with you would make her happier than coparenting with you.  I feel silly even typing that!  So... .back to being civil.  It shows you're a good partner.  It's your best option.

I fear it really isn't going to get between us and our family will not be as I wish it were.  

I'm really sorry about this.  I'm facing some of the same fears myself.  It is difficult, to say the least.

I feel as if this time she has a friend or two in her ear pushing the validation and stopping any kind of remission or regret she might have towards reuniting. As she has mentioned that getting back with me would be letting her friends down. I know she has considered it and she's even shown signs of it being good again at times (before I moved out of the house) but obviously other people's thoughts and opinions were holding her back.

I can understand how frustrating this must be!  She gets to pick who she listens to.  Work on your own behaviors and play the long game.  I know you already know this

How's your anxiety doing?  Are you exercising?

Sorry to hear that your support needs to be better.  Can you describe your current sources of support?

On the letter, I'd go for writing but not sending for the moment.  If you'd like, write it, sit on it for a day, and share it with us.

WW

[sladezy]

Hey Wentworth thanks for the wordy response I'll try to answer all.

1. Yeah I definitely see this as a very poor first attempt at me trying to enforce a boundary. It was fairly reflective of where I was at and what I really needed at the time although very poorly structured to try to gain some relief. It failed poorly and things stayed in high tension between us.

2. Today is only the second time I'd seen her since I started doing this. There was no conflict or even any attacks. She seemed low and looked like she hadn't been eating well at all. A few exchanges were made between us but not alot. I guess if anything it was probably a neutral encounter leaning towards poor. The only other contact made was when I sent the photos which you already know about.

3. Acting negative so being with me is better than Co parenting?  Do go on  

4. Sorry you are facing the same things. The pain is shocking. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
 
5. My anxiety is still very high, I'm walking when I can but it's been raining the last few days. I have some good support don't get me wrong I just feel like it isn't right / frequent enough / working like it has in the past. I'm seeing a psychologist, using this forum, using other mental health support services here in Australia such as helplines, using meditation apps, a chat support app with an online councillor, some friends who aren't sick of hearing me go around and around and around.

[JoeBPD81]

Hang in there!

It's hard to believe in being civil, as we see them behaving poorly, and it works for them, they have us chasing them. But Autenticity is important, they behave like that because they are like that, we can't fake being a person that we are not. That usually leads to disaster.

[Radcliff]

sladezy,

Thanks for all the answers, that helps confirm what I was thinking -- in just this one thread you've come a huge distance! Your first approach was controlling, and you have quickly moved away from that.  Your adaptation has been rather fast, so you deserve congratulations on that 

Good for you as well to be sensitive to pick up on her mood and demeanor when you saw her.  You said "neutral to poor" for the interaction.  But how was your demeanor?  Were you able to get a little warmth in?  No worries if not -- those interactions can be fleeting and awkward.  Perhaps give us more detail about how things happened and what was said.

Time may be on your side here.  pwBPD have strong shame responses, so if she perceives that you are upset, or perceives rejection from you, she may withdraw.  If each time she interacts with you, you are just slightly nicer than she expects, over time she might start to feel safe with the idea of getting closer to you.

WW

[sladezy]

sladezy,

Thanks for all the answers, that helps confirm what I was thinking -- in just this one thread you've come a huge distance! Your first approach was controlling, and you have quickly moved away from that.  Your adaptation has been rather fast, so you deserve congratulations on that 

Good for you as well to be sensitive to pick up on her mood and demeanor when you saw her.  You said "neutral to poor" for the interaction.  But how was your demeanor?  Were you able to get a little warmth in?  No worries if not -- those interactions can be fleeting and awkward.  Perhaps give us more detail about how things happened and what was said.

Time may be on your side here.  pwBPD have strong shame responses, so if she perceives that you are upset, or perceives rejection from you, she may withdraw.  If each time she interacts with you, you are just slightly nicer than she expects, over time she might start to feel safe with the idea of getting closer to you.

WW

Wentworth,

Hard for me to remember, I know I was tired from a big week at work and not really psyched up for the arrival. If anything I'd say I probably seemed polite but disinterested at the same time. Nothing was really said so much she hadn't me the bags n some wet sheets she had washed but not had time to dry, explained that she didn't get the shoes I requested because I couldn't find them. I told her how there was some wet clothes in the bag she missed last week that had been sitting there in piss for a week.  That was pretty much it really. I kept trying to draw my attention onto the kids instead asking how they were going and what should we do this weekend etc. She gave me a wave and then the kids a wave and left.

Before the meeting she texted me to try to get me to pick up the kids instead of her dropping them to me cause she was going to be late, she only ended up being 15 minutes late in the end. I just told her dropping them over later will be fine. She's tried a number of times to get me to pick up the kids instead. Not really sure why.    

What do you mean by time may be on my side? I don't understand it. I'm really starting to struggle with the kids on my own. Don't know how long I can keep it up for. They have very much been a driving force that's keeping me going but I'm not sleeping enough as it is.

[Radcliff]

Hard for me to remember, I know I was tired from a big week at work and not really psyched up for the arrival. If anything I'd say I probably seemed polite but disinterested at the same time. Nothing was really said so much she hadn't me the bags n some wet sheets she had washed but not had time to dry, explained that she didn't get the shoes I requested because I couldn't find them.

I've been there.  Sometimes I've got absolutely zero energy with all the stress, and it seems impossible to "clean up" and act bright and shiny for my daughter or others.  But I'm going off of your stated desire to win her back.  If that's what you want, then you need to look at that exchange as a 60-second date.  That means make the time to get home early enough to recharge, do something that relaxes you, dress in a way that you think she'll find attractive, the whole deal.

I told her how there was some wet clothes in the bag she missed last week that had been sitting there in piss for a week.

On a date, you don't talk about piss   Nothing that might make any unhappy feelings cloud your date's impression of you.  I'm not clear on the wet clothes details exactly, but if they were soiled at your place, give them to her clean, or say you're cleaning them and will drop them by her place later.  If she gave them to you soiled, clean them and don't even mention it.  You are the magic stud they put in TV commercials aimed at women your wife's age.

I kept trying to draw my attention onto the kids instead asking how they were going and what should we do this weekend etc. She gave me a wave and then the kids a wave and left.

That's totally natural to focus on the kids.  But next time see if you can give them a quick warm welcome, then carve out some time to make eye contact with your wife, smile, and make the interaction about the two of you, if only for a brief moment.  Basically, you are flirting.  You are Magic Guy, kind to children and animals while at the same time charming and attractive to any woman in your presence

What do you mean by time may be on my side? I don't understand it.

Like with money.  If you make slightly more than you spend, eventually you'll have a lot of money.  If you spend slightly more than you make, eventually you'll be broke.  Think about small deposits in the relationship bank with her over time.  Success is not guaranteed, but slow and steady often wins the race.

I'm really starting to struggle with the kids on my own. Don't know how long I can keep it up for. They have very much been a driving force that's keeping me going but I'm not sleeping enough as it is.

Kids sure are a lot of work.  What are the ages and genders of your kids?  Sounds like they are small.  Sorry, remind us how long you've been solo parenting for part of the week?  Are you fully "trained" on all the kid care mechanics, or still coming up to speed?  Even if you've got the details down, it's still exhausting.  There's nothing quite like brushing a todder's teeth with one hand while holding a screaming baby in the other!  Tell us a little more about the parenting challenges, maybe we can help.

WW

[sladezy]

Hey,

So there has been a development today. She contacted wanting to know what I was doing over the Easter long weekend because she wasn't working. I mentioned a few things and she said she wanted to join because she doesn't get to take the kids to fun things through the week. I'm weary she never suggested anything about seeing or spending time with me, only with the kids. I let her know she was welcome to join us any time she wanted n haven't heard anything since. (which I'm ago with)  this conversation steamed from me sending a couple of photos from the weekend with the kids on a jumping castle.

I see what you're saying about the 60 second date but not sure I understand what kinds of things to say or do when our discussions usually a debriefing about the kids,I feel like personal questions regarding herself won't be as welcome in discussions but I guess I will find out this weekend.

The soiled clothes were left in the bag at the daycare then passed from her to me where I found them n cleaned them. I was only making her awear to check in there incase there's others in future. Still not a great topic to talk about.

I'm not struggling with any specific tasks with the kids just the shear volume of work and attention required to keep them happy while still trying to service my own needs between work n them.if anything I think I'm losing time.

[NGU]

Sladezy:
This thread reached its posting limit and we needed to lock it. Please feel free to continue your conversation in a new thread. We'll be reading.

[UPDATE:  The conversation has been continued on a new thread.]