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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
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Author Topic: I'm in the midst of an affair  (Read 592 times)
OverThinker

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« on: February 21, 2018, 08:37:08 AM »

I'm not sure where to begin. I'm in the midst of an off and on 1 and a half year affair with a woman I believe has BPD. My wife of 25 years discovered the affair about 3 months in. We are separated but not legally. I feel like I'm circling in the toilet bowl. I've been visiting this site for a little over a year and think it's time to start talking it out. I'll explain more later when i can pull myself a bit more together.
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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

heartandwhole
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 11:45:08 AM »



Hi OverThinker,

Welcome to the community. I’m glad you decided to post, because engaging with members about your specific situation will bring a lot more support to you than just reading. 

What is the most difficult part of this situation at the moment?

This is a safe place to talk and work through your feelings. We’re here for you. 

heartandwhole
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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
OverThinker

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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 06:25:27 PM »

Hi H&W, Thank you for your reply. I think the most difficult part is me vacillating between wanting to stay in the relationship with my uBPDgf or let go of it. We've had another break up but they never seem to be real break ups. No matter who breaks up with who we always get back together.

This time I've been NC for 5 days. She said she was going to block me this time but i don't know if she has. The longest NC we've had was 3 weeks and that was almost a year ago. I broke NC back then but since then there have been very few break ups and never really more than a couple days. I'm not even sure i'd call them break ups... .more like time outs and we never went NC. At times we have gone months without many issues and have really enjoyed our time together. It felt like we were getting closer.

In the past two months though things have become bumpy gain and I've come to the realization I can't fix her and in fact may be making things worse as we grow closer. I know she loves me but i swear it makes her crazier. I thought i could get her into therapy with enough love, patience and support but I know now i'm just kidding myself. She knows she has issues and has been to a counselor or two but doesn't think they are helpful.

I'm realizing I need to fix myself first and foremost and that there is no guarantee that it will help with this relationship. I'm certain i have codependency issues and am beginning to understand my role in enabling her behavior. I've read about detaching with love which is something i've been doing with her all along without knowing it.

We'd get back together every time. I miss her and love her like crazy but have become aware of how enmeshed we have become and just how unhealthy that is. Anyway... .this time once again she told me she was done with me and to not bother her anymore (something she has often said) So, i told her that I just want to say goodbye without anger and that i wished things could have been different for us. I told her I wished i knew how to love her better and apologized for letting her down and said that I would miss her and cherish our memories. I also told her that I had been thinking for a while that i did't know how to stay with her or how to let go of her and that i was sure this is best for both of us.

She replied with "as you wish" Which to me almost sounds like a contradiction to her being done with me. It almost sounds like door is still open to go back. I just don't know if i can stay on this roller coaster anymore. I want to keep my distance for now while i look into my codependency issues. I'm going  to go to a codependency anonymous meeting next week to see if i can get some insight and or some help... .I still feel like there is hope for us but that is my nature... .Hopelessly hopeful. So that is kind of the big picture. Sorry for rambling on
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heartandwhole
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 06:36:09 AM »

I want to keep my distance for now while i look into my codependency issues. I'm going  to go to a codependency anonymous meeting next week to see if i can get some insight and or some help... .

I think this is a good plan, OT.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  A little time and space can really help. When we are in it, often we can't see with as much clarity as when we take a step back and get objective input from others.

As a caretaker-personality myself, the biggest challenge for me has been turning toward myself when so automatically I reach out to "help" others. I've been learning that this "help" is often more about how I cope with my own feelings than I realized.

Not to negate the real desire to be of assistance, but I've seen that the first thing I need to do when the urge to fix/help comes up is to get with my feelings and take a moment to feel and be present with myself. I fail often.  Smiling (click to insert in post) But I'm working on it.

Does that resonate with you? Anyone else?

heartandwhole
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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
OverThinker

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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 08:25:50 AM »

Thank you for your input H&W. What you say does resonate with me. I fail at this too. Even when i see red flags i often dismiss them. I think i do it because i see them as cry's for help which really pulls on my heartstrings and i get to feeling i can help in some way. Then i tell myself i think i can help without getting attached. Oh how i have failed at this. I get to feeling selfish if i resist the urge to help. How messed up is that? I've done this in most all of my previous serious relationships. I know it has something to do with my need to be needed. I just don't seem to be able to stop myself even if the voice in my head says hey wait a minute here this could be a problem. The other voice in my head says you can handle this but proceed with caution. I am slowly becoming aware this is a form of coping with my own feelings. It has been a subconscious kind of thing i guess. I'm in my upper 50's and i'm disappointed in myself for not having figured this out earlier in life. I could have saved myself and others a lot of pain if i'd only became aware of this sooner. I also find it difficult to accept help from others for myself because i don't feel i need it or sometimes feel i'm just not worthy of it. Why are my eyes welling up as i write this?
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 02:05:03 PM »

No matter who breaks up with who we always get back together.

There is a finite number of recycles in for a litium battery and a relationship... .20% of our members did 20 before the clock ran out.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=120215.0

Be careful. My impression is that every recycle is a chipping a way at the core of the relationship until it finally collapses. When breaking up is normalized we get lulled into thinking it is harmless... .its really a slow growing relationship cancer.

The biggest problem is that breaking up/making up is not a healthy way to resolve conflict. There are no rules. Often, we are caught off guard with a third person enters the scene.

What are you broken up over?  Is there a running conflict issue in the relationship?

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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 03:03:18 PM »

Hi OverThinker 

Fellow codependent person here. I really get what you’re going through. It’s really hard when you start to look inside yourself. How often do you start that process, only to have your mind wonder somewhere else, to something or someone external?

Why are my eyes welling up as i write this?

I have wondered that exact question many times. A therapist once shared with me his theory. When we express all that love and compassion for someone else, sometimes what we’re really hoping is that we’ll finally get the same love and compassion in return. We’re trying to obtain something we’re, a) lacking from our past, b) unable to obtain inside our relationship, but most importantly, c) we’re unable or unwilling to give love and compassion to ourselves. When none of that happens, we can’t help but be sad and hurt and feel a longing for it. So it becomes this simultaneous expression of love and hurt.

This is just my interpretation and I’m still trying to work on it myself. My hope for you is that you can continue to explore this and maybe share any insights you find?
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OverThinker

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 05:05:52 PM »

Hi Skip, Thank for your input. I think the number of break ups must be 10+/- a few. This time it is more of a boundary issue for me. For her it's the fact i ignored a text from her. We hadn't been in contact for few days anyway due to an argument a few days earlier. I was also visiting friends when she texted. They encouraged me to not get into with her. I knew if i replied we'd get into another argument so i just decided to deal with it the next day. Big mistake as i'm sure it triggered her rage and caused her to start accusing me of things i'm not doing and a whole host of random nonsensical complaints. Not uncommon with her.  We've had a couple of these type of break ups where we will actually debate who broke up with who. I see a counselor and he has encouraged me for some time to set boundaries with her. It's taken me a while to get off the launch pad with that because i think i knew she'd cross them and that would be the end of us. A bit of a FOG situation for me i guess. I just need to finally take a stand and stick up for myself. I cannot believe how difficult it is especially when she comes back lobbing love bombs. I always get stuck thinking this time will be different. I'm just exhausted from it all.
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 05:23:25 PM »

I see a counselor and he has encouraged me for some time to set boundaries with her. It's taken me a while to get off the launch pad with that because i think i knew she'd cross them and that would be the end of us.

Why don't you guys just buy cattle prod and give each other a zap.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

We need to help you rein this in to some degree of normalcy.

So what was  the boundary issue she violated? What was in the text that was better left unanswered?

Let's get down to the meat of it.

Seriously. Folks here can help. There are thing that you can do short of blowing up the relationship.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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OverThinker

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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 05:31:51 PM »

Hi OverThinker 

Fellow codependent person here. I really get what you’re going through. It’s really hard when you start to look inside yourself. How often do you start that process, only to have your mind wonder somewhere else, to something or someone external?

I have wondered that exact question many times. A therapist once shared with me his theory. When we express all that love and compassion for someone else, sometimes what we’re really hoping is that we’ll finally get the same love and compassion in return. We’re trying to obtain something we’re, a) lacking from our past, b) unable to obtain inside our relationship, but most importantly, c) we’re unable or unwilling to give love and compassion to ourselves. When none of that happens, we can’t help but be sad and hurt and feel a longing for it. So it becomes this simultaneous expression of love and hurt.

Hi DaddyBear, Thank you for your reply. I think you nailed it here. I'm going need a tissue. Kind of a painful realization.
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OverThinker

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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 05:40:20 PM »


So what was  the boundary issue she violated? What was in the text that was better left unanswered?

The boundary was she started badmouthing my relationship with my daughter a women she has never met and had no relevance to the conversation at hand.

We were in kind of a breakup mode so i was returning some of her things. The text was her letting me know she got them.
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 05:59:42 PM »

What does she say about your daughter? What's driving it?
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OverThinker

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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 06:42:37 PM »

What does she say about your daughter? What's driving it?

Oh boy there has been so much she has said. I had a family function to go last Saturday night and she had given me a cat carrier to give to my mother. I had to pick up my daughter on the way to this function and we had dinner along the way. She asked if i had given the carrier to my mother. I had put in my car but forgot to give it to my mother... .no big deal right? Wrong. She starts by saying my forgetting was due to me being in such a hurry to get to my daughter and to go out for our secret dinner. She knew i was taking my daughter to dinner beforehand so obviously not a secret. She then proceeds to accuse me of talking about her behind her back with my daughter. Which was not the case. Although my daughter is supportive of me despite my infidelity she prefers not to discuss my gf at all. so we don't. She then proceeds to say my relationship with my daughter is creepy and calls her my secret wife and whatever secret we discussed she didn't want to know. This is right after asking me what we talked about about her... .Totally off the wall stuff. I told her we talked about my daughters future after she graduates from college among other things. She responds by saying i should do my friends and family a favor and stay away from her. Then goes on to tell me i'm a great guy and that i deserve better and hopes that i find it... .followed by i can't wait for you to leave me alone and that she is done dealing with my freak show. Ends the conversation with "enjoy the rest of your days" I have no idea as to what drives this and this wasn't the first time she carried on like this about my relationship with my daughter. I don't know if it's jealousy or an attempt to isolate me from my daughter.
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 09:13:23 PM »

Just guessing here... .

Does you girlfriend have insecure attachment issues? Does she see your daughter as a threat because daughters generally are supportive of the bio-parents. Does she have vulnerability issues - rather than say that she is insecure and worried - she lashes out instead?

Could this be part of what is going on?
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OverThinker

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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2018, 04:22:23 AM »

Just guessing here... .

Does you girlfriend have insecure attachment issues? Does she see your daughter as a threat because daughters generally are supportive of the bio-parents. Does she have vulnerability issues - rather than say that she is insecure and worried - she lashes out instead?

Could this be part of what is going on?

Hi Skip, I think that is part of what is going on. She sees herself as not good enough and constantly fears being replaced. She comes across as a confident person, maybe even over confident and happy but i believe inside she is still a terrified little girl.
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2018, 04:41:41 AM »

Hi Overthinker,

This is a bit of a tough situation for you. Am I right in believing that you feel that you have sacrificed your 25yr relationship with your wife for this woman, and now that you've exited/been forced out of that situation for what you thought could be a committed relationship this person is being unreliable and very push/pull.

Could you tell me a bit about the marriage you have left/has left you? Did you hope for some level of consistency from the new partner and would you have fought for your marriage more had you have known the outcome of this R/S?

pwBPD can feel threatened by many things and people... .your mother, sister, work, daughters, anything which means you are not 110% focused on their wants (which they can translate to needs due to their emotional intensity). You not being 110% focused on them leaves for the possibility of you being distracted and maybe abandoning them. Maybe she see's how you were unfaithful in your 25yr marriage and see's "you have it in you" to be distracted by another. pwBPD often come across as scared little children when you scratch beneath the thin veneer of tough guy exterior.
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OverThinker

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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2018, 07:51:13 AM »

Hi Overthinker,

Could you tell me a bit about the marriage you have left/has left you? Did you hope for some level of consistency from the new partner and would you have fought for your marriage more had you have known the outcome of this R/S?

 Maybe she see's how you were unfaithful in your 25yr marriage and see's "you have it in you" to be distracted by another. pwBPD often come across as scared little children when you scratch beneath the thin veneer of tough guy exterior.
Hi Enabler, Thank you for your input. I guess you could say my marriage had deteriorated for years despite years of couples therapy with several counselors. I just came to feel unloved, unappreciated and increasingly alone while at home. I was desperate for her attention but just wasn't getting it no matter how i tried to convey that to her. I stayed for my kids for the most part.  I never cheated on her or anyone else in my life until this relationship and i only did so because i thought i had found true love. I never thought i was even capable of cheating. When i met my gf and we became friends and got to know each other i could feel an attraction I had never felt before. It was such an intense connection. I fell in love with her long before the relationship became physical which, was a first for me. Before becoming intimate with her i discussed with her my concern for trust issues she might have with me going forward since we both could see the relationship was likely to become physical. It seemed at the time she was comfortable with that concern and was willing to trust me. We had even talked about postponing any physical involvement until after i left my wife. In hindsight I'm not sure it would have made any difference if i had left my wife first. I just don't know. Having this affair was extremely stressful in the beginning. I felt a lot of guilt and was ashamed of myself. I'm certainly not proud of this flaw in my character. Somehow i was able to justify cheating due to my intense feelings for this other woman. I thought i had found my soulmate and that true love would overcome all obstacles. In some way i still feel that way and understand there would be huge obstacles to overcome if this relationship is to continue. So, to answer your question about fighting for my marriage had i known the outcome of the r/s with my gf i would say no. I felt my marriage was basically over and that it was never going to change and that there just wasn't anything left to fight for. And yes i think you are right my gf likely feels like i may have it in me to become distracted by another despite having discussed that concern before becoming intimate with her. I'm certain i will never cheat again on anyone. The pain and destruction i have caused eats at me and i'll have to live with that the rest of my life. I know now no matter what relationship i end up in the future this affair will always be a concern for whomever i become involved with and forming another relationship is going to be difficult, if not impossible. At some point during the affair i discovered the Infidelity Recovery Institute website and answered the affair type questions. The result was i was having a split self affair.
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2018, 08:12:55 AM »

Enabler is right on track.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

One problem we have when we leave a marriage through infidelity is that we don't do divorce recovery. And important part of divorce recovery is understanding that our wife didn't fail us, but that both partners failed the marriage. Its important to see our side so that we don't carry it forward into another relationship. Factor to consider. Not a judgment.

Here is a possible scenario. Your partner, right now, is showing her fears of her own vulnerability - messy - but thats what it is. You are responding by raising those fears. The tension get so high, neither of you have the skills to repair, so you break up. Everyone eventually returns to baseline and you get back together - and the problem gets kicked underground where it feasters and grows quietly and out of sight. It will eventually grow to be too big to resolve and the relationship will end.

This happens in many relationships. When on person has traits of BPD, there is an added degree of difficulty because "talking it out" is not always of viable tool - the pwBPD deals more in emotion than logic.

Does this seem possible.
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OverThinker

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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2018, 09:31:20 AM »

Enabler is right on track.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

One problem we have when we leave a marriage through infidelity is that we don't do divorce recovery. And important part of divorce recovery is understanding that our wife didn't fail us, but that both partners failed the marriage. Its important to see our side so that we don't carry it forward into another relationship. Factor to consider. Not a judgment.
Hi Skip. I understand what you're saying here. I'm definitely trying to understand my role and want to learn from my mistakes. It's so hard sometimes to see one's own short comings. Your understanding here is much appreciated.

Enabler is right on track.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Here is a possible scenario. Your partner, right now, is showing her fears of her own vulnerability - messy - but thats what it is. You are responding by raising those fears. The tension get so high, neither of you have the skills to repair, so you break up. Everyone eventually returns to baseline and you get back together - and the problem gets kicked underground where it feasters and grows quietly and out of sight. It will eventually grow to be too big to resolve and the relationship will end.

This happens in many relationships. When on person has traits of BPD, there is an added degree of difficulty because "talking it out" is not always of viable tool - the pwBPD deals more in emotion than logic.

Does this seem possible.
I think you're spot on here. after every break up and reunion we rarely if ever discuss what went wrong or how to move forward. She seems far more interested in talking about anything other than relationship improvement. I will sit there and try to listen to whatever topic she feels like discussing. Sometimes i'm able to concentrate on what is being said but more often than not i'm drifting off thinking about ways to steer the conversation towards discussing our relationship. She can tell if i'm not fully engaged with what she is talking about and will say that i'm not listening which is true to an extent. I'm actually listening but not actively and not really absorbing much of it. It's really not lack of interest on my part. I think it's more me just being anxious and overly eager to discuss "us" instead of whatever it is she is currently talking about. I often wonder when she gets into the talk about everything under the sun but "us" mode that it's some kind of an unconscious avoidance strategy on her part. Idk... .I can only imagine the pain and sadness she feels within herself.
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2018, 09:48:23 AM »

At times she can be pretty abusive in her communications with me. I came across this article in the link below yesterday and can see how it applies to our situation. I'm not a lonely child though, as in, I do have siblings yet i see myself as the "lonely" one in this article. Through all of the research and gathering of information i've done i've noticed there seems to be two schools of thought with regard to relationships with pw traits of BPD. One side is run away or give up. The other being to love them harder. I tend to lean toward the later. Probably to my own detriment.

https://www.dailystrength.org/group/physical-emotional-abuse/discussion/lonly-child
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2018, 10:01:24 AM »

Overthinker,

Could you tell me a bit about the status of your uBPD GF. I ask because I'm wondering whether or not from what you said about discussing 'the relationship' it might not necessarily be what she gets from you... .let me explain. pwBPD need validation, they live in a mentally chaotic world where their opinions and views can be a little up and down based on their emotions at the time... ."I love you, you're the best thing that's ever happened to me"... ."I've never loved you, you're nothing to me". In the throws of a new relationship, experience is not on our side, everything is new and everything is very confusing, so our own ability to map the confusion is limited and we allow a lot of things to slide past us we might be more in-tune with later in a mature agape relationship. Your GF, (and this is a hunch) is coming out of a relationship as well (I might be projecting my own experience here) and wants/NEEDS validation from you. That is what you provide. You validate the valid and the invalid. Before I make more assumptions here please tell me more about where she's at and where she's come from.

What are your feelings about you old relationship? Do you feel that now you have tasted the new level of emotional intimacy of this relationship you can't go back?
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2018, 10:04:59 AM »

The lonely child schema is often associated with NPD leanings. People with NPD and BPD traits coming together is very common and this is one of the drivers.

This is a quick test that would build on what you are saying:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=202548.0

Through all of the research and gathering of information i've done i've noticed there seems to be two schools of thought with regard to relationships with pw traits of BPD. One side is run away or give up. The other being to love them harder. I tend to lean toward the later.

This is a choice we often face in life. I read recently that in the single world, 50% of people being diagnosed with cancer lose their partner... .

I'm not sure what "loving harder" means. Being stronger and more emotionally intelligent comes to mind as the alternative. That can settle things down. When they are, you will have a much better sense if this is a long term relationship for you.
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« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2018, 12:44:56 PM »

Hi Enabler, Thank you for your reply.



Could you tell me a bit about the status of your uBPD GF.

Your GF, (and this is a hunch) is coming out of a relationship as well (I might be projecting my own experience here) and wants/NEEDS validation from you. That is what you provide. You validate the valid and the invalid. Before I make more assumptions here please tell me more about where she's at and where she's come from.

What are your feelings about you old relationship? Do you feel that now you have tasted the new level of emotional intimacy of this relationship you can't go back?

Your hunch is correct. She was in the process of ending a relationship when we met. Odd as this may sound we often discussed the issues we each were having in each of our relationships. She spoke both highly of him and poorly of him. Same as i did about my wife. She ended it with him 2 or 3 months before we got involved. He ended up going on smear campaign against her and stalked her. She had to get a restraining order on him. Turns out he has a fairly lengthy criminal past that i was able to confirm.

As for my feelings for the relationship with my wife i do think the taste of the level of emotional intimacy i experienced with my affair partner was so high that going back would be next to impossible for me. The thought of reconnecting with my wife has crossed my mind a few times during the course of all this. Last years holiday season was a little difficult for me. I began to feel like i was missing her and all the things we had together but i think it was more a kind of nostalgic longing. I clearly have a lot to figure out and or fix about myself before considering any relationship with anyone going forward.
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« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2018, 12:52:05 PM »


I'm not sure what "loving harder" means. Being stronger and more emotionally intelligent comes to mind as the alternative. That can settle things down. When they are, you will have a much better sense if this is a long term relationship for you.

Skip, what i mean about loving them harder i guess is being stronger for them by giving them more patience, understanding, empathy, validation, love and support than what might be considered normal. I no doubt need to work on my own emotional intelligence.
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« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2018, 12:54:51 PM »

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I will say this... .I use those skills in my current relationships with a healthy person... .they are powerful.
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2018, 09:59:09 AM »

She spoke both highly of him and poorly of him. Same as i did about my wife. She ended it with him 2 or 3 months before we got involved. He ended up going on smear campaign against her and stalked her. She had to get a restraining order on him.

Morning Overthinker,

I hope you've had a great weekend of thinking, I certainly have. Have you read the article below. I think it's very interesting and may make you think about the evolution of your new relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

The early stages of a relationship with a person with BPD traits often evolves in a topsie-turvie manner where trust is implicit from the outset which is often on shaky foundations. The relationship then seeks to validate that trust, test that trust and prove that trust fallible as the relationship matures. As we eluded to in previous posts this trust is always going to have it's challenges owing to the lack of distinction between the ending of your old relationships and the beginning of this relationship.

Many people on the boards here struggle to rationalize the end of their short/medium/long term relationships with their pwBPD traits. pwBPD are prone to "painting black" and discarding their old partners.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the article, there are many more similar articles on the website for you to cogitate.

It is important to be mentally clear whether the new relationship is a mirage that will turn into more desert or an actual oasis for you.
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2018, 11:26:47 AM »

Hi Overthinker.

I write in solidarity, I don't really have any advice, but my situation is almost verbatim like yours.  You can look through my past posts.

I'm wondering -- was she married to this prior guy?  What has her relationship history been like?  Was that a red flag you chose to ignore.

The thing is -- they start out idolizing you, and after being invisible to my wife for years it was completely intoxicating.  But then once she had me completely hooked, I was walking on eggshells.  Getting raged at for all kinds of minor things.  Constantly disappointing her.  Sound familiar?  I wouldn't read more into the fight about your daughter's text than one of those BPD things.  You can't always make sense of the rages. You know what --- shouldn't have to!  That's called gaslighting in my book.

You can't fix other people.  Sorry.  Unless they want to fix themselves.  Mine also didn't believe in therapists.  You gonna drown with her?  Cause that's how it will end.

For your daughter, for your friends, for yourself -- take some time out.  It will be incredibly painful, but the right thing  to do I think.

I wish you luck. 
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2018, 12:06:10 PM »

Staff only
Please do not urge participants to exit their relationship on the Bettering/Saving board. Members post here to find solutions to difficult problems. Please allow them the opportunity.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56303.0
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2018, 12:11:53 PM »

As for my feelings for the relationship with my wife i do think the taste of the level of emotional intimacy i experienced with my affair

Hi Overthinker. Well done for reaching out.  

I noticed that one of the things you appreciated in your affair was the emotional intimacy.  

Have you thought about some of the other things you might want on your list of how you want to be loved? It might help you as you plot your way forward.

I'm still discovering what emotional intimacy looks like as well.

How do view it? What does it look like for you?
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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2018, 01:44:39 PM »

Hi Overthinker. Well done for reaching out. 
Have you thought about some of the other things you might want on your list of how you want to be loved? It might help you as you plot your way forward.
I'm still discovering what emotional intimacy looks like as well.
How do view it? What does it look like for you?

Hi Moselle, Thank you for your reply.
I haven't really thought much about what other things i need in order to feel loved other than being "one" with that person yet be independent as well which i guess is called interdependence. I also think that each partner can bring aspects of themselves into the relationship that the other partner can learn to appreciate and maybe even emulate. Embracing one an others differences so to speak. So i guess that is how i would view emotional intimacy for the most part. A physical connection is also important. I think sex is better and more intimate when one feels more emotionally connected to ones partner. Early on it felt like we had that. Of course that was before the affair was discovered. At that stage she kind of had to accept me having to be with my family and friends. It didn't seem to bother her and she was happy to hear about the things we did as a family and even liked to see whatever pictures had been taken. Seems surreal in hindsight.
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2018, 02:16:13 PM »

Morning Overthinker,
I hope you've had a great weekend of thinking, I certainly have. Have you read the article below. I think it's very interesting and may make you think about the evolution of your new relationship.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the article, there are many more similar articles on the website for you to cogitate.

Hi Enabler, thank you for your post. I had a fairly decent weekend thanks for asking. Glad you enjoyed yours. My sleep was somewhat restless but overall not a bad weekend. I have read the article you linked but read it fast. So much of it appears to describe what I've experienced. I'm having trouble with the tone of it though. Some of it seems, I don't know... .kind of mean. I'm going read it again when I have the time to really digest it and comment more afterwards.

I do appreciate your help and input as well as everyone else's in this forum. Truly a remarkable group of people here.
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2018, 01:20:21 AM »

Hey overthinker,

I don’t disagree with your point about that article, it is written in such a way that doesn’t promote a sense of compassion. I understand how and why it is written in this way, there are many different individual experiences people have with their pwBPD, some mildly confusing and others downright terrorising and life threatening. The article might appeal more to the person who feels embittered towards their pwBPD, struggling to understand how and why their relationship evolved in such a confusing manner. I don’t think it’s an unfair description of my experience for example.

This is just one of many articles you will find and I hope you get the chance to explore more of them in your search for understanding and rationalisation. BPD is a spectrum disorder therefore there is a full range of experiences, some people may not experience suicide attempts or self harm, but they will have their property destroyed and physically assaulted, others will have constant divorce threats. It really depends on how the pwBPD “chooses” to cope with the intense feelings they have.

We’re all here to help you on your journey whether that’s with you pwBPD or returning to your wife in hope of reconciliation.
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2018, 09:59:41 AM »

Hi snwo, I appreciate your input

Hi Overthinker.
I'm wondering -- was she married to this prior guy?  What has her relationship history been like?  Was that a red flag you chose to ignore.

The thing is -- they start out idolizing you, and after being invisible to my wife for years it was completely intoxicating.  But then once she had me completely hooked, I was walking on eggshells.

For your daughter, for your friends, for yourself -- take some time out.  It will be incredibly painful, but the right thing  to do I think.

No she was not married to him. She is divorced and has been for 10-12 years i think and has a teenage son from that marriage. I do not know what, if any, relationships she had during those 10-12 years. She would talk about some of the relationships prior to being married. The red flags were with regards to all her past relationships where she indicated she was either abused physically or cheated on. It just seemed that all her relationship failures were never her fault. Another red flag was she feels everyone (friends, family, acquaintances and so forth) is out to get her or take advantage of her in some way.

Yes, I can completely related to everything in your second paragraph from being invisible to my wife to the idealization to her intoxicating attention to walking on eggshells.

I plan to, and am, taking some time for myself. Not for my daughter or my friends sake but for my own. I know I need to step back and reevaluate all of this. It's something I planned on doing and my counselor suggested it as well. He recommended 4 weeks of no contact and to try to get her to seek counseling or come to terms with regard to her hypervigilant  and suspicious nature during this break. We broke up before I could discuss it with her. I will try to stay NC for the duration. If she reaches out in the meantime I don't know what I'll do. I will probably reply with something like I need more time and leave it at that and just wait and see how it plays out.

I assume you had an affair too? Did you reconcile with your wife?
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2018, 09:06:56 AM »

Hi Overthinker,

That sounds like a good plan.  I know if my ex had agreed to therapy, and admitted that  anything at all was ever her fault, the relationship might have had a chance.  But it's now solidly over.  You can't fix people who do not admit to themselves that they are broken.

Yes, mine was an affair too.  I am in the process of divorce.  My wife and I are on friendly terms, she doesn't want the divorce, for religious and other reasons.  But how do you go back?  In my case, I've told her for years I needed more, and she pretty much ignored me.  And if you force someone to love you because you want/need love -- what good is that?

I wish you the best.  I look forward to hearing how things work out.
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