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Author Topic: In a slump  (Read 1057 times)
Woolspinner2000
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« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2018, 09:32:54 PM »

Excerpt
Thank you for continuing to share your journey, as it inspires me to remember to listen to my "little heart," who can be so quiet that she is easy to ignore in favor of more pressing matters (ha!).

  Too punny heartandwhole! Thank you to each of you for cheering me on in my journey.   Speck and Harri, the frog is sitting beside me on my desk as I type. How odd the connection to being 15 when I had the other frog and now with this new frog, but this stage of my life seems here to stay so my 15 year old can become integrated with the rest of my little Woolites (as Turkish sometimes calls themSmiling (click to insert in post)

I shall share a story from last week that has stirred up my 15 year old quite a bit.

About two weeks ago someone backed into our vehicle and barely scraped the bumper. They left contact information, and I assumed DH would follow up on it. He was quite occupied for about a week and a half, so I finally called early last week and started the ball rolling. It was a pretty simple task, and I gave contact information for both my DH and myself and set up the repair date. Right when I got home from work, I saw the information on the kitchen table for the insurance, and I told him I'd just called that afternoon to get things going. That was the beginning of the falling apart.

He told me he already knew that I called (I wondered how he knew? His tone of voice was quite unhappy). Apparently he had decided to call too, about the same time as I did, and since I already called, "a female" as he informed me, the insurance company would not speak to him about it at all. That was so strange to me because it matters zero to me who does what, just get the job done. Those  of you who know my story know that I've struggled in a marriage where as a female I am seen as 'less than' by my DH who has N traits-so familiar since I had an uBPDm who was N as well. He started telling me all about how women are favored over men, all things I've heard over and over continually during the more than 30 years we've been married. I've grown beyond weary of being the object of his dislike of women. I saw his behavior as unreasonable and totally inappropriate, and as in recent days when the nature of my 15 year old is beginning to come out, I spoke up. I told him that I didn't want to hear anymore of his comments, and when he said he wasn't mad at me but at the laws, then I told him to stop taking it out on me as if he was mad at me, and I walked away. (And I'm not trying to get anyone to triangulate with me btw!)

Here's where the heart of the matter comes in. I felt as if I was appropriately stepping up for myself (a rare occurrence), yet the struggle within me began almost immediately after. Was it okay that I was angry? What was mine to own and what was not? Back and forth, a teeter totter of emotions. I felt so awful for being angry, then sometimes a bit glad. At no point in time was I allowed to be angry while growing up in my FOO, and my 15 year old is well aware of that fact and tired of being overlooked and abused. She is ready to speak up and act on it. At the same time, just the merest expression of anger with DH reminded her that she 'would get into trouble.' The expectation was there, strongly so. In my marriage, DH doesn't allow me to be angry either, especially at him. This is an impossible place to be. If I listen my 15 year old and begin to stand up for myself, then what?

I spoke with my T about what happened, and he was celebrating that I spoke up, of all things! But that made me cry because in my mind he can't be celebrating something that has always gotten me in trouble. My feelings say that even my T will be mad at me in a week or two, but the facts know that he will not.  This learning to trust someone that what they say is true... .darn it can be hard! My 15 year old told me that being angry not only gets you in trouble, it causes people to turn away and abandon you. They'll reject me and my behavior because I dare to protect myself. That's getting to the heart of the matter. Do I want to risk being abandoned, especially by those I care about? Will my safe friends give up on me too and reject me if I express anger?

But are these thoughts, beliefs and feelings of my 15 year old grounded in truth? It is what she believes and what she learned to be true, but does that make it true? In The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships I see that my beliefs are NOT based in healthiness; they're very un-healthy beliefs. There is this current painful time of challenging what I thought was true and the need to replace it with actual truth. Many sighs. It is the process of growth and healing. No wonder my brain gets tired.

 

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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2018, 12:18:58 PM »


But are these thoughts, beliefs and feelings of my 15 year old grounded in truth? It is what she believes and what she learned to be true, but does that make it true? In The Characteristics of Healthy Relationships I see that my beliefs are NOT based in healthiness; they're very un-healthy beliefs. There is this current painful time of challenging what I thought was true and the need to replace it with actual truth. Many sighs. It is the process of growth and healing. No wonder my brain gets tired.

Wools, I think this questioning of longstanding beliefs is a good move. In my experience, it can bring a lot of freedom to realize that the beliefs we’ve carried with us our whole lives, upon deep questioning, are clearly not true. Then, as feelings and thoughts come up, as they always do, they just aren’t as “sticky.” We can allow them to move through us and move along.

I heard something from Buddhist teacher and psychologist Tara Brach that really resonated with me: these (often painful) core beliefs about ourselves are real, but not true.

Thank you for sharing. I hope you’ll continue, as your journey helps me grow and learn, too.  

heartandwhole

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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2018, 12:54:17 PM »

Hi Wools.  What are you afraid of if you do speak up like this with your husband?  I mean stuff now, not memories from the past. 
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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2018, 08:43:01 PM »

What a beautiful recent sharing, Wools. It's so hard to reconcile and relinquish ancient things, ideas, beliefs, memories, actions, and thoughts without a struggle. And, it's very difficult to integrate them into who we are now. I understand.

There is this current painful time of challenging what I thought was true and the need to replace it with actual truth.

On my own journey, I, too, have had to let go of FoO stuff, and when I have, I've pictured myself standing next to a rollicking stream with a rainbow trout (or salmon) in my hands. The fish represents the old "stuff" that I wish to give away. I see myself bend down and release the fish into the water, watching it swim upstream to struggle on its own without me. When its finally out of sight, I turn my back on it and give myself permission to walk away.

I find that using this imagery exercise helps when I need to let go of something (or someone).

Pat your little frog for me.  


-Speck
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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2018, 09:23:56 PM »

Hey Harri,

What are you afraid of if you do speak up like this with your husband?

This is a great question.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I wrestled with it last year when DH moved a large amount of money without informing me or discussing it with me. It was a deliberate deception on his part (which he admitted) because he didn't want to face my anger. I began to ask what was it about me in the present that enabled him or had him thinking this was okay to deceive me and not include me in this decision? Yes it was a choice on his part, but what were my contributions or lack of them?

In reality I rarely get angry or express it. As I thought deeper about why I don't express my anger, it goes to the fact that I am afraid. Follow me here as I link one thing to the next. I'm afraid of causing someone else to be angry if I speak up in disagreement or anger. That then will lead to extreme anger and disapproval coming from others which in the end leads to me being hit and punished. This has nothing to do with reality (in my marriage or otherwise). My fear is based on those examples from my past. However, it was a big discovery to realize that the fear is deep seated within me from all of my growing up years. Definitely until I left home at 18, it was something I witnessed between my parents and sometimes I experienced it as well. My imprinting of anger is such that what I witnessed will be a part of me or happen to me if I am angry or cause others to be angry.

That being said, I am sticking my toe into the water and allowing a bit of anger to come out in the past couple of months. It's a new experience as you read in my previous post. It's going to take some time. Thank you for asking.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
... .these (often painful) core beliefs about ourselves are real, but not true. 

This is awesome heartandwhole. I love the statement because it is validating as well as factual. Thank you.

Speck, this image is so full of color and life.
 
Excerpt
On my own journey, I, too, have had to let go of FoO stuff, and when I have, I've pictured myself standing next to a rollicking stream with a rainbow trout (or salmon) in my hands. The fish represents the old "stuff" that I wish to give away. I see myself bend down and release the fish into the water, watching it swim upstream to struggle on its own without me. When its finally out of sight, I turn my back on it and give myself permission to walk away. 

Thank you for sharing it. As hard as this present struggle is, because I've gone through other ages of my Little Wools, I have the confidence that I'll come through this one as well. It's a necessary part of healing. Finding my voice, discovering who I am, such things are miracles of healing.

 
Wools
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« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2018, 07:52:56 PM »

I learned something new last week. I've been wondering what to do with these new experiences I've had with my 15 year old self, such as the warm electric blanket and when someone doesn't get mad at me for expressing anger but instead celebrates it. I had two very different reactions to these two examples.

1. Re. the electric blanket: there was nothing for me to compare it with. Whenever I looked in my memory bank to find something similar, there was nothing. So strange.
2. Re. when someone doesn't get mad at me for expressing anger: I was very distressed because the foundations of all I've ever known say that the other person will be angry back. 

Here's what I learned. The reason why I'm not able to find something to compare either of these situations to is because there is nothing in my hippocampus (the hippocampus is the part of the brain responsible for memories) that has stored a memory about these things. When my brain looks for a memory response to anger, it only sees angry responses. It cannot understand someone being glad for my expression of anger because such a thing has never existed in my life (in my memory). Our bodies want to return to homeostasis, to our norm. These are new memories I am making now, having no connection to my past.

It is startling when I bump into something for which I have no foundational memory. Even if the memories from my past are not good, they still have been what I know and have navigated by. I guess it's okay when I'm startled by these new things, and they need not cause me panic or anxiety. Rather a healthy response would be to see that there's no comparison and that I'm making new memories. A good example would be when we go on a vacation, we often see new sites and visit new places. We take pictures to remember the trip, and in our memory we now have those pleasant pictures of something new. I don't need to fear the new. It's pretty amazing to realize that I'm finally bringing new and positive memories into my brain!

 
Wools
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« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2018, 09:54:09 PM »

Hello, there!

I don't need to fear the new.

Oh, Wools, this is such a remarkable epiphany! Self-discovery is such a worthwhile investment.

I have a similar story of self-discovery: I basically raised myself, graduated high school early, and sent myself to college as soon as I could. To get through it all, I was a bundle of raw resolve and ALL seriousness. Yes, I was Mr. Nerd Bucket.

A few years after graduating college, I went on a biking trip/tour out West. The landscape was something I'd never seen before, four shades of brown everywhere, and the sky so enormous. One night, sitting around the campfire, someone from our group said something funny, and I laughed. At first, I did not recognize that sound as coming from me, as I'd never heard it before. Not in that exact way... .no, this sound was absolutely joyful. Then, I started laughing uncontrollably, and everyone else sitting around the campfire started laughing because I was so tickled. This went on for five solid minutes. No alcohol was involved.

In short, experiencing pure JOY for the first time in my life at age 23 changed me in ways that, now, it's hard to even imagine the alternative. After that particular epiphany, I grew a sense of humor, and I've been laughing ever since.

It's pretty amazing to realize that I'm finally bringing new and positive memories into my brain!

I am so glad for this. Keep reaching for the moon, Wools. Even halfway there would net you some pretty awesome memories!  


-Speck
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2018, 10:40:34 PM »

Hi Wools.  What a great thing to realize.  I am celebrating along with you and Speck!  I can relate to new feelings and experiences.  Add me to the list of people who are happy that you are allowing yourself to feel and *and* express it!  *wild but happy applause*

I understand how expressing anger was associated with so many bad memories and became something you feared.  

Excerpt
It's pretty amazing to realize that I'm finally bringing new and positive memories into my brain!
Yep.  Amazing.

  Here's to celebrating new connections!  celebrate4
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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2018, 01:15:34 PM »

I admire you for all the hard emotional work you have done to get to a place where you can feel joy and make happy memories. It takes tremendous courage to look at all the painful memories, because as one memory gets resolved, a new one pops up, and we often ask ourselves why keep looking at all the pain, if we just keep uncovering more of it. The moment when we can finally enjoy life, and the pain is more manageable is when we can really respect ourselves for having the courage to face whatever comes our way, including discovering what is most meaningful and brings the most joy to our lives.
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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2018, 11:56:48 AM »

I've been thinking about your latest post Wools and it really resonates.  Okay, so it was a bit of a delayed resonance but all the same!
Excerpt
Rather a healthy response would be to see that there's no comparison and that I'm making new memories.
Yes.  Realizing there is no comparison and not going to fright, flight, freeze or fawn mode.  Simply recognizing you are in brand new territory.

Yeah, I know I am just repeating what you said.  But I really get it now.

Thanks 
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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2018, 08:22:26 PM »

This was a bumpy week for me, but before I get into that, a couple of things.

Speck, this is great:
Excerpt
... .and I laughed. At first, I did not recognize that sound as coming from me, as I'd never heard it before. Not in that exact way... .no, this sound was absolutely joyful. Then, I started laughing uncontrollably, and everyone else sitting around the campfire started laughing because I was so tickled.

Laughter can be so healing.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) When I began working at the small physician's office almost 6 years ago, I hardly ever laughed. My coworkers made it a regular part of each and every day, eventually drawing me in. I learned to laugh at them and at myself. Now I enjoy laughter and it is a part of my life. It's awesome! 

My dear Harri, thank you for cheering me on!  Smiling (click to insert in post) This is it, you've got it.
Excerpt
Realizing there is no comparison and not going to fright, flight, freeze or fawn mode.  Simply recognizing you are in brand new territory.
But I really get it now.

zachira, this is a good observation.
Excerpt
The moment when we can finally enjoy life, and the pain is more manageable is when we can really respect ourselves for having the courage to face whatever comes our way, including discovering what is most meaningful and brings the most joy to our lives.
There is a gradual dawning that comes with this, finding that suddenly the lightness within me isn't vanishing but it's sticking around for more than a minute or two. With it comes joy.

There were a few days last week that were kind of crazy with my 15 year old self. I don't know exactly why, but she became very triggered, almost a subconscious thing, but as I listened to my body, I knew it was some sort of an emotional flashback. In the past I typically look back over what took place in the past hour or two, then the past 24 hours, etc. trying to isolate and understand what was it that triggered me. This time was different however, because not only was I not able to isolate what it was, I also needed to skip that step and just comfort her with words of kindness and reassure her of my standing by her. A fleeting thought passed through my head as I was getting ready for work that morning: "this is just what it was like before I left for school when I was 15 years old," then the thought was gone.

The main difference was that I found it much more necessary to take care of her, reminding her that we were not a small child anymore and that we were not helpless. I used my 13 Steps to Emotional Flashback Management list by Pete Walker to help me slow down and relax those flight responses that had kicked into gear. I never did figure it out, but I certainly got practice in caring for her. There was another day or two after that when she was so easily triggered, up and down we went emotionally for several days. I had to step away from reading or writing because we just had to let those volatile emotions settle and then look to any facts later. All of this brought up some new memories of that house I lived in too. While the memories were not traumatic, they were a part of the whole environment which was traumatic, so they were still tough.

What was all that about? I don't know, nor do I need to know. There was some satisfaction in knowing that I recognized what to do, and I had to just get through it and keep going. I pulled out the 'tools' in my tool chest that I've learned and I needed to use them. This was one of those "I need to roll up my sleeves and hang on until I get through it" few days. I learned from it, a lot, that we'll get through this time of learning to integrate my 15 year old and all of who she is into the rest of my ego states (inner kids). What a wild ride it is to be getting better acquainted with all my little Wools.  Being cool (click to insert in post)

 
Wools 


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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2018, 07:00:17 PM »

I am so happy that you were able to figure out what to do and that you allowed yourself to feel. 

When you say your 15 year old is triggered, what do you mean?  Do you feel anger?  Fear?  Or is it something else?  I'm just trying to get a better picture of what is going on for you.  I am also curious as to how you would know if it is your 15 year old self who is angry vs. your present day 36 year old self   No worries if you would rather not answer. 

 
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« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2018, 07:31:39 PM »

Hi Harri

When you say your 15 year old is triggered, what do you mean?  Do you feel anger?  Fear?  Or is it something else?

Thank you for asking the questions you have. I imagine you're not the only one wondering. Let me first go with some quotes from Pete Walker to tackle this.

Excerpt
Emotional flashbacks are sudden and often prolonged regressions ('amygdala hijackings' to the frightening circumstances of childhood. They are typically experienced as intense and confusing episodes of fear and/or despair - or as sorrowful and/or enraged reactions to this fear and despair... .Because most emotional flashbacks do not have a visual or memory component to them, the triggered individual rarely realizes that she is re-experiencing a traumatic time from childhood... .

When I am triggered, I am saying that I've been thrown into an emotional flashback of some sort. I know it because of listening to my body's reaction. Usually for me it is a quite literal and very intense feeling of fear, freezing or fawning; for others it may include fight too. If I first freeze, fawn, or experience fear, sometimes it is after the fact that I recognize I have reacted exactly as I was trained to do when I was a child. For example, if as an adult someone approaches me and begins to accuse me or question me about something I have done or they think I've done, I will begin to freeze and have intense fear. Subconsciously I react and do not recognize quickly that this is parallel to what my uBPDm said/did to me when I was little, and my natural response was to freeze, fawn and fear. Often my breathing will become shallow, and I feel panic overtake me.  I feel a desperate need to get away, but I also want to fix it, whatever 'it' might be, no matter how I feel emotionally. I will sacrifice my well being in order to please her [others] before I ever manage to take care of my own emotions and tremendous fear.

Excerpt
I am also curious as to how you would know if it is your 15 year old self who is angry vs. your present day 36 year old self.

Actually she is 29 so don't make me too old!  Smiling (click to insert in post) Well, sort of 29ishBeing cool (click to insert in post)
Another good question. Perhaps others wonder how I'd even know it is my 'inner' child in the first place? When the concept of my inner children was introduced to me by my T, I thought he was absolutely crazy! Seriously! How strange could that be? He asked me to tell him what I'd be doing if I were 5 or so years old, where would I like to go and play?  For me it was instant recognition that I'd be out in the hay barn playing. Then he asked me to imagine that at my present age I go and sit near her and talk with her and introduce myself. He wanted me to think about how she would react, my younger one and what would she say and what would she do if I spoke to her? It was the strangest thing to imagine myself doing this exercise, but somehow suddenly I was back in time, feeling hesitant to talk with someone, and afraid to trust, and I began to recognize that I had felt that way as a child. The more I watched this little one and talked to her, the more I began to learn about myself.

Another example is that I remembered hiding under my bed from my uBPDm when she was in the angry mode. That's a pretty clear memory. So then I imagined crawling under the bed with her to keep her company, ever so quietly, to help her not be so afraid when mom came looking. I'd imagine holding my breath with her so that we'd be quiet as could be and not be discovered, literally for our safety, and I began to feel what she felt in those moments. That's how I began to become acquainted with her.

While in this most recent 'trigger' of feelings of panic and extreme anxiety, I knew it was my 15 year old because I felt smaller and younger and... .well... .I don't know how else to put what I knew instinctively into words. If I was given the option of holding a teddy bear or a sand bag/bean bag frog at that moment, I know I would've reached for the frog and tossed him into my lunch bag as I quickly headed out the door. I didn't feel present and 29. The panic had to do with my past. Guess that's the best explanation I can give you.

Here is a last section of thoughts from Pete Walker again. Much to ponder!
Excerpt
As clients begin to derive benefit from responding more functionally to being triggered, there are more opportunities to work with their active flashbacks in session. In fact, it often seems that their unconscious desire for mastery 'schedules' their flashbacks to occur just prior to or during sessions. In helping them to achieve some mastery, my most ubiquitous intervention is helping them to deconstruct the outmoded alarmist tendencies of the inner critic. This is essential, as Donald Kalshed explicates throughout The Inner World of Trauma, because the inner critic grows rampantly in traumatized children and because the inner critic is the primary initiator of most flashbacks. The psychodynamics of this is that continuous abuse and neglect force the child's inner critic [superego] to overdevelop hypervigilance and perfectionism - hypervigilance to recognize and defend against danger, and perfectionism to try to win approval and safe attachment. Unfortunately, safety and attachment are rarely or never experienced. Hypervigilance progressively devolves into intense performance anxiety and perfectionism festers into a virulent inner voice that increasingly manifests self-hate, self-disgust and self-abandonment at every imperfection. Eventually the child grows up, but she is so dominated by feelings of danger, shame and abandonment, that she is unaware that adulthood now offers many new resources for achieving internal and external safety. She is stuck seeing the present as rife with danger as the past.

 
Wools
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« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2018, 06:34:31 PM »

Hi Wools.  I am sorry I got your age wrong.  Ooops.

thanks for answering my questions so thoroughly.  It is fascinating to get a glimpse into how your flashbacks present.  I have done inner child work in the past (long ago) but it was a bit different than you describe.  It has been a while since little Harri has been around too.  Mostly it is just me in the present day trying to stay connected to my feelings and present in the moment.

Emotional flashbacks are so tricky too.  Working them requires that we are really present and in tune with our bodies, or at least that is the way it is for me.  A lot of times now mine are accompanied by a visual image or auditory signal which makes it easier for me to say "I am triggered" though there can be a slight delay in onset after the emotional flashback starts. 

Excerpt
I feel a desperate need to get away, but I also want to fix it, whatever 'it' might be, no matter how I feel emotionally. I will sacrifice my well being in order to please her [others] before I ever manage to take care of my own emotions and tremendous fear.
Oh yes!  For me this urge to fix it is not just a need to please but to control.  It is weird.  When i was a kid who knew nothing I was able to handle things and my mom did look to me to fix things that adults would have a hard time fixing... .but according to her, I did fix them.  Ridiculous I now know.  I learned by fixing I could control things and make things better for everyone.  Or at least it worked that way when I was very young or when she had me painted white. 

Okay, so is it correct for me to conclude that you have learned to ask yourself what you feel like doing and then to look for clues about what age you are?  Like the frog being a teen item vs something you had as a wee one?  Very interesting!
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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2018, 08:22:16 PM »

Excerpt
  Okay, so is it correct for me to conclude that you have learned to ask yourself what you feel like doing and then to look for clues about what age you are?  Like the frog being a teen item vs something you had as a wee one? 

Yes!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) You've got it. Or I may look to see what I'm doing (in my head I search to find where I feel like I am, such as hiding under the bed from uBPDm as I mentioned in the previous post). It's often so surprising to me where I find myself flashing back to or the memories that then crop up. Those clues tell me about the age of my inner ones at that moment, and I try to take care of their needs that weren't met before.

You know that you are 29 too don't you?  Smiling (click to insert in post) Forever 29 as they say. Thank you for your post Harri.

 
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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

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Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



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