Attended GriefShare on Sunday

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

i lost my dad about three months ago, december tenth. obviously, its been tough going for my mom and me.

we had talked about attending GriefShare for a while, then we got word recently that it was starting up at my old church, and we committed to going.

i was of the mind that i really dont want to talk, share, and grieve in front of strangers. i was relieved, and intrigued to learn that not only is sharing not required, but its only a piece of the program. there is a workbook, there are videos. one thing i always liked about bpdfamily is the lessons. the Detaching lessons are a great roadmap for grieving and detaching from the loss of a relationship, theyre informative and engaging, you can do them privately or with feedback. i worked through them some years after my relationship, and still found them transforming.

im not sure how much grieving ive done over the past three months. certainly i did for the first month, and especially the first week. i think that mainly what ive done is adjust to the shock and the loss, which isnt nothing.

GriefShare, and other grief support groups encourage you to wait a couple of months to join, after some of the early rawness and the brain fog has passed. i can see why. i remember being at my dads service, held nearly a month after his passing, and thinking all of this was way too real, and way too final. scary, devastating, and trying to suppress that feeling. i dont think i really had that feeling this sunday, although it occurs to me now: ive joined some club for people grieving the loss of a loved one. a club that, while it helps to feel less alone, is not one i ever wanted any part of.

GriefShare is a christian based program, although you do not have to be religious in order to attend or benefit from the program. i think that this will be especially good for me. ive felt very distant from God, which i know is not uncommon. i know that he needs to be central in this process, wants to be, and wants for me to lean on him. the program speaks to all of this.

i was pleasantly surprised with the program itself. the videos are full of experts, and theres a great deal of psychology involved. the first session video was a lot about introducing the program, and a whole lot of validating and normalizing grief. its funny; bpdfamily taught me a lot of this too, that virtually everything about grief is "normal" or at least "common", that it isnt "going crazy", that we shouldnt judge any of it, and i chuckled when one of the hosts said "you may already know this, and be thinking "i know its normal, how does that help me?"". it does, though. we all still put that pressure on ourselves, put on our face for the outside world, tend to feel like we should be further along. it was especially relieving and validating to hear from people that, on some days, struggle to even function, as i have. the world continues to turn as normal, which is surreal for the grieving, and the video spoke to that as well.

it opened a lot up, too, which is scary, but i know that its necessary. im very prone to tearing up when i read or witness or hear something that strikes me as profound, and it happened several times during the video, or basically any time i open the book.

its not something i like doing around people. i dont know of many who do. the video spoke to this as well. we are afraid to make other people uncomfortable with our grief; i know i am. the video spoke to the benefits of doing this. it gives you a lot of psychological space. it lets people know where you are, and how to help, if they are so inclined. and it opens up your relationship with God, and helps you to lean on him. i think that was an important takeaway for me.

im kind of an awkward fit for the group itself. most of them are more than twice my age, and im easily the youngest. the hosts are a little old fashioned. the male host said hes embarrassed to admit that as a man, he cries. im thinking "its 2018, we have mostly established that it is safe for men to cry", though i understand thats not necessarily the case. the hostess talked about how the pain never goes away, which i think is not only untrue (i understand we will always miss our loved ones) but not an advisable thing to say to the grieving, who need hope. during the break (the meetings are two hours long) i got cornered by a lady who wanted to talk to me. i did well (as an introvert this scenario is like a nightmare), a small victory. it was humbling, not minimizing, to listen to the struggles of others. most were more recent losses than mine, and widows. the woman sitting next to me recently lost her thirteen year old daughter to pneumonia, and she is alone.

thats one of my struggles since this occurred. there is so much pain in the world. there always has been, but now im far more aware of it. i have lost some sense of optimism when it comes to "the world being a better place". if you ask me right now, the world is largely only going to get worse; there are things we can do to lighten someones burden, there are micro changes that we can make, we can help others and we should, but i think the trajectory is bad.

another thing that i struggle with is what i perceive to be some differences (not worse or better, just different) between grieving the death of a loved one and the loss of a relationship. when my ex broke up with me, somewhere inside i was full of hope. i knew one day the pain would be gone, and all that i had to show for it would be a better me, a better life; the rewards, the lessons, the fruits of my labor. it seems to me, at least right now, that grieving the death of a loved one is about learning to live with and cope with the loss, not necessarily this transformation that makes you a better, stronger version of yourself. thats depressing to me, and im interested in the thoughts of others on this.

i think the program will help, and im looking forward to the next session, which is a couple of weeks away due to easter.

im interested to hear if you have attended GriefShare, or similar programs, and what your experience was like. i am also interested to hear from those that have been on the journey of grieving the death of a loved one, your thoughts on it all, how you coped, the actions you took.

thanks for listening.

[once removed]

i lost my dad about three months ago, december tenth. obviously, its been tough going for my mom and me.

we had talked about attending GriefShare for a while, then we got word recently that it was starting up at my old church, and we committed to going.

i was of the mind that i really dont want to talk, share, and grieve in front of strangers. i was relieved, and intrigued to learn that not only is sharing not required, but its only a piece of the program. there is a workbook, there are videos. one thing i always liked about bpdfamily is the lessons. the Detaching lessons are a great roadmap for grieving and detaching from the loss of a relationship, theyre informative and engaging, you can do them privately or with feedback. i worked through them some years after my relationship, and still found them transforming.

im not sure how much grieving ive done over the past three months. certainly i did for the first month, and especially the first week. i think that mainly what ive done is adjust to the shock and the loss, which isnt nothing.

GriefShare, and other grief support groups encourage you to wait a couple of months to join, after some of the early rawness and the brain fog has passed. i can see why. i remember being at my dads service, held nearly a month after his passing, and thinking all of this was way too real, and way too final. scary, devastating, and trying to suppress that feeling. i dont think i really had that feeling this sunday, although it occurs to me now: ive joined some club for people grieving the loss of a loved one. a club that, while it helps to feel less alone, is not one i ever wanted any part of.

GriefShare is a christian based program, although you do not have to be religious in order to attend or benefit from the program. i think that this will be especially good for me. ive felt very distant from God, which i know is not uncommon. i know that he needs to be central in this process, wants to be, and wants for me to lean on him. the program speaks to all of this.

i was pleasantly surprised with the program itself. the videos are full of experts, and theres a great deal of psychology involved. the first session video was a lot about introducing the program, and a whole lot of validating and normalizing grief. its funny; bpdfamily taught me a lot of this too, that virtually everything about grief is "normal" or at least "common", that it isnt "going crazy", that we shouldnt judge any of it, and i chuckled when one of the hosts said "you may already know this, and be thinking "i know its normal, how does that help me?"". it does, though. we all still put that pressure on ourselves, put on our face for the outside world, tend to feel like we should be further along. it was especially relieving and validating to hear from people that, on some days, struggle to even function, as i have. the world continues to turn as normal, which is surreal for the grieving, and the video spoke to that as well.

it opened a lot up, too, which is scary, but i know that its necessary. im very prone to tearing up when i read or witness or hear something that strikes me as profound, and it happened several times during the video, or basically any time i open the book.

its not something i like doing around people. i dont know of many who do. the video spoke to this as well. we are afraid to make other people uncomfortable with our grief; i know i am. the video spoke to the benefits of doing this. it gives you a lot of psychological space. it lets people know where you are, and how to help, if they are so inclined. and it opens up your relationship with God, and helps you to lean on him. i think that was an important takeaway for me.

im kind of an awkward fit for the group itself. most of them are more than twice my age, and im easily the youngest. the hosts are a little old fashioned. the male host said hes embarrassed to admit that as a man, he cries. im thinking "its 2018, we have mostly established that it is safe for men to cry", though i understand thats not necessarily the case. the hostess talked about how the pain never goes away, which i think is not only untrue (i understand we will always miss our loved ones) but not an advisable thing to say to the grieving, who need hope. during the break (the meetings are two hours long) i got cornered by a lady who wanted to talk to me. i did well (as an introvert this scenario is like a nightmare), a small victory. it was humbling, not minimizing, to listen to the struggles of others. most were more recent losses than mine, and widows. the woman sitting next to me recently lost her thirteen year old daughter to pneumonia, and she is alone.

thats one of my struggles since this occurred. there is so much pain in the world. there always has been, but now im far more aware of it. i have lost some sense of optimism when it comes to "the world being a better place". if you ask me right now, the world is largely only going to get worse; there are things we can do to lighten someones burden, there are micro changes that we can make, we can help others and we should, but i think the trajectory is bad.

another thing that i struggle with is what i perceive to be some differences (not worse or better, just different) between grieving the death of a loved one and the loss of a relationship. when my ex broke up with me, somewhere inside i was full of hope. i knew one day the pain would be gone, and all that i had to show for it would be a better me, a better life; the rewards, the lessons, the fruits of my labor. it seems to me, at least right now, that grieving the death of a loved one is about learning to live with and cope with the loss, not necessarily this transformation that makes you a better, stronger version of yourself. thats depressing to me, and im interested in the thoughts of others on this.

i think the program will help, and im looking forward to the next session, which is a couple of weeks away due to easter.

im interested to hear if you have attended GriefShare, or similar programs, and what your experience was like. i am also interested to hear from those that have been on the journey of grieving the death of a loved one, your thoughts on it all, how you coped, the actions you took.

thanks for listening.

[Mutt]

Im sorry for your loss Once Removed. Griefshare sounds interesting. I somewhat agree with the statement that you never stop grieving that person it just becomes easier to cope with. I lost my mom to cancer when I was 8, she wasn’t a part of my life for long but she made the biggest impression. My dad wasn’t a good example, although he did provide. I guess what im trying to say is I draw inspiration from her especially when things are difficult.

[heartandwhole]

Thank you for sharing this once removed. I’m glad that you went the meeting and felt it had benefit. It sounds like a very helpful program.

I lost my father right before the breakup with pwBPD. I’m not sure if I grieved for him, as the breakup shattered me so soon after. My father and I had a rather distant relationship, although we loved each other dearly. Then, my relationship with my brother crashed and burned (my father’s death contributed to the breakdown). Then a close friend and I had a spat and she cut me off completely.  

So, the losses are so mixed up in there. Again, I’m not sure if I have truly grieved my father’s passing. I know I have struggled with guilt at not being there for him in his last days. I wish I had had a GriefShare in my area. I didn’t look for one, but probably should have.

My mother is getting up there in age, and I often think about how I’ll handle that loss, as we are very close, and always have been. A colleague recently told me that there is no way to prepare for that kind of loss, and I believe her.

My colleague’s comment, and your post, have given me some relief, as I feel confirmed in my thinking that it IS normal to have trouble functioning after such a big loss.

Thanks for letting me share.

heartandwhole

[gotbushels]

Hi once removed   

I join the others in giving you some support. 

... ."i know its normal, how does that help me?"". it does, though.

Yes, I do think there's a kind of curative and calming effect when we know there are others sharing the experience with us. I think there's some kind of loneliness when we lose someone we love. Perhaps it's that each relationship with the departed is unique. When I lost someone close to me, I thought of the unique conversations we had and I wouldn't be able to have those with her anymore. My thinking went--because only the two of us shared those and when I focused on those conversations--noticed the irreplaceability--then thought I was the one left alive, then I felt like I was alone.

While my experiences with her are unique, the feelings are shared by others and their own unique experiences of losing someone. So I won't feel so alone. I guess after some time we might feel that while we don't share life with the one that's passed away, we do share life still with many others. I think that's how we might find some comfort.

I hope things develop peacefully for you these next few months.

[valet]

Hey once, I'm sorry about your dad.

I lost my dad a little over 4 years ago. We weren't very close, but it hurt in its own way. And in some ways I think it was a catalyst for relationship dysfunction when I was with my pwBPD as well, which made things harder.

I like the idea of the grief share. I think it's something we don't do enough where I'm from, so I say keep going if you're getting something out of it.

Over the years I've learned not to feel too shy about expressing feelings or sadness. I'd say that talking isn't my best mode of expression though, and tend to release my emotions a bit more through music and writing.

It's interesting that you separate the loss of a relationship and the loss of a loved one. I can see how that might be an obvious way to think, but I'm not convinced it works like that, at least for me. Grief is grief. We have to be present for it no matter the cause, or it's not going to get better. I say this because I think losing my dad did cause me to change for the better, just like the loss of any relationship I've had. There were things to learn about the importance of the moment; about appreciating things for the good in them. All of those things have helped me to define who I want to be by some measure. Sure, it still hurts every now and again. But I can't say that it's bad to be reminded, and I take that at face value and try to live how I want to rather than how others might want me to.

[Insom]

Thanks for this, once removed.  As someone who struggled to get back into therapy after a not-great experience many years ago, it's helpful for me to hear about your good experience even though you had reservations.  This sounds like a great group despite the awkward fit.  I bet they're glad to have you join them.

I'm sorry about your dad.  How are you feeling today? 

[Turkish]

the hosts are a little old fashioned. the male host said hes embarrassed to admit that as a man, he cries. im thinking "its 2018, we have mostly established that it is safe for men to cry"

Lol.  I'm one of those guys who had to be dragged kicking, screaming (and crying) into the 21st century.  

I get the introvert thing... .but I'm glad that you went and shared here.  It sounds like a great program. No man (or woman) is an island,  you know, even if we feel that way sometimes... ;^)

[once removed]

thanks to all who responded, and those that shared their experiences 

I get the introvert thing

one thing i absolutely dread, hate, is when youre doing the small talk thing, maintaining eye contact, and both parties run out of anything to say. while maintaining eye contact. but each time one of us found something to turn to, and gracefully exited, so the experience was more akin to making a friend. ... .seemed so much easier in elementary school.

i wont completely rule out sharing at all (the sharing is pertinent to the video and the workbook, not so much a "hey everybody, heres what im going through" if i think it can benefit someone. i was kind of relieved though that it seems like very few in the group are into sharing, at least for now, so thats even less pressure.

How are you feeling today? 

thanks for asking Insom. im okay (really). today, im in a pretty good humor. as i mentioned, the experience did kind of bring things back to the surface. ive had a few quiet, reflective, if sad moments and ive not pushed them aside. ive noticed that ive been praying about it, and for others, spontaneously, whereas i had felt very apathetic about prayer.

i happened to see a movie about a guy going through a spiritual journey the night before griefshare. coupled with griefshare itself, ive been reminded of gods approachability, and the fact that he wants us to pour our heart out to him. im trying. im praying about the distance.

i have things to look forward to upcoming. seeing an old friend tomorrow. rehearsing with my bandmates/best friends the next day. theres been very little of that over these few months, and i feel its what i need most: normalcy and human connection. and apparently i was incorrect, griefshare is meeting this sunday and im kind of looking forward to it.

Over the years I've learned not to feel too shy about expressing feelings or sadness. I'd say that talking isn't my best mode of expression though, and tend to release my emotions a bit more through music and writing.

i feel similarly. i am shy about it when it comes to strangers. i can talk to my friends. id truly rather not, id prefer to just enjoy their company. what would we say? "this really sucks." "yeah, it does really suck." i tend to put it into writing and music as well, although i havent, as of yet.

I can see how that might be an obvious way to think, but I'm not convinced it works like that, at least for me. Grief is grief. We have to be present for it no matter the cause, or it's not going to get better. I say this because I think losing my dad did cause me to change for the better, just like the loss of any relationship I've had. There were things to learn about the importance of the moment; about appreciating things for the good in them.

well, first, i admit i am new to this, and my views are subject to change. certainly, i have embraced the changes you describe. i am more keenly aware of the pain of others, and more conscious to do what i can to lift the burden, as people have done for me, and i am more intent on making the little time i have with others on this earth count. thats significant.

i also strongly agree that we must be present with our grief, which i will touch more on below. i guess the difference that i see is that you "get over" an ex. im so far removed from any pain from that experience. im no longer adjusting to or coping with the loss, i have nothing but positive takeaways. i dont mean that i wont heal, or necessarily benefit, i just dont see how it can be as rosy when it comes to the death of a loved one.

My thinking went--because only the two of us shared those and when I focused on those conversations--noticed the irreplaceability--then thought I was the one left alive, then I felt like I was alone.

losing that kind of connection is very hard gb   . i find that i have largely not experienced this, and i dont know why. i have not, specifically, felt a lot of just "missing" my dad. there has been plenty of "oh my god, my dad is gone." there has been a decent amount of "my dad will never be a grandpa. he will never be at my wedding, or meet my wife." but that feels like more sadness on his behalf because i know how much he would have loved those things and im sad that he died relatively early, and never got to experience them or the "highlight of his twilight".

i have consciously noticed moments where something will happen, and he would be the first i would want to talk to about it with. its not particularly painful. i have thought about memories. they dont particularly pain me. its a more generalized "the world would be back to normal again if my dad were back." than feelings of personal loss, and again, im not quite sure why. my mother experiences it, the absence, the memories, the associations, the flashbacks, nearly every waking moment. im not sure whether its a level of denial, the normal flow of grief (perhaps its ahead of me), or it just is, and isnt good or bad.

my dad had a stroke about a year before his death. it wiped him out. you couldnt talk to him about mutual interests anymore. this gregarious, extroverts extrovert was suddenly very quiet. his short term memory, which was bad before i was born, deteriorated significantly. my mom has suggested that both of us did part of our grieving that year. im not sure thats it either.

So, the losses are so mixed up in there. Again, I’m not sure if I have truly grieved my father’s passing. I know I have struggled with guilt at not being there for him in his last days.

ive struggled with this myself. i did my share of avoiding. some of it, i think, was adjusting. for example, i feel i could have talked to my dad a lot more; the reality of how hed changed was so scary. on the other hand, i really couldnt, and i needed to accept that. what i wish i had done was just give him more company. but, i dont know of anyone who has lost a loved one that didnt experience regret(s).

My mother is getting up there in age, and I often think about how I’ll handle that loss, as we are very close, and always have been. A colleague recently told me that there is no way to prepare for that kind of loss, and I believe her.

i believe her too. im sure each of us, if we had a say, would have our preferences. to me, ideally, our loved ones go at peace, free of pain, in their beds, surrounded by loved ones, after everyone has had their say, and our loved ones are even able to speak to and ease our pain. rarely does it work out that way, and i dont think even that really "prepares" anyone. what we can do is make the time with our loved ones count, and we can truly carry them with us.

My colleague’s comment, and your post, have given me some relief, as I feel confirmed in my thinking that it IS normal to have trouble functioning after such a big loss.

i think its very normal, some are just better at hiding it than others, and some really need and lean into a sense of routine and normalcy. in some cases its depression, which is both normal, and makes functioning very difficult. in some cases its just a complete loss of energy. our bodies go through so much in grief. in some cases both. but it being normal doesnt necessarily take that pressure off of us, that the world puts on us, or that we put on ourselves.

Thanks for letting me share.

im glad you did 

I somewhat agree with the statement that you never stop grieving that person it just becomes easier to cope with.

i agree with that. her wording was a bit different, and more hopeless, i just dont remember what she said. someone a couple months ago came up to my mom and said "you know, it never gets better.". i think thats not a good thing to say, and i dont think its true.

I guess what im trying to say is I draw inspiration from her especially when things are difficult.

this not only touches me, but i think its so important. in the early days, i had spells of determination to live that way, to honor him, make him proud, to remind myself that hes cheering for me, and it all went out the window pretty quickly. i hope to get back there.

picking up on being present with our grief, i believe that there is peace, joy, and healing, even if there is also longing and sadness for the absence (im not sure wed be honoring our loved ones if there wasnt).

i believe we have to actually engage (not necessarily "indulge" our grief in order to get there. if you sit in a room for six months, the pain from any loss will tend to lessen and become less significant (which is why i think statements like "it never gets better" are simply untrue). but that isnt the same thing as healing.

ive grieved before; the loss of friends and romances. pets (who are members of the family to me). two of my grandparents. though i dont have a lot of experience with the death of someone close to me, much less a parent. with the exception of my ex, i think thats mostly the equivalent of what ive done, "sit in a room until the pain lessens", and i think its mostly what ive done in this case, so far.

i believe there is healing. i dont have any idea what it looks like. i intend to try and find out.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi OR,

I just want to thank you for posting about this and sharing your thoughts with us.  I'm so sorry that you find yourself part of that club you never wanted to have to join.   

Much of what you write resonates with me and I'm glad we can take this journey with you.  It speaks to me when you talk of how you coped with grief in the past, as I too feel as though I have sat in a room until the pain became less and am very interested to hear what you discover in what sounds like an excellent group.  It's so wonderful to hear that there is support like this out there and available to all to access.  I expect many of us will be glued to your thread as this is something that affects all of us and I'm thankful that you are letting us into your world in this way.

Love and light x 

[gotbushels]

one thing i absolutely dread ... .while maintaining eye contact.

 I get the awkward thing. I tried to be mindful but it was still super awkward. I guess I was supposed to RAIN the awkward. Or something. It was a workday and it felt like I was "supposed" to be working. I guess that's the situation causing the "slowdown" of one's life--which I think the mourning part is "supposed" to do. A bit of peace is always a welcome thing anyway. Curious--why were you supposed to maintain eye contact?

i find that i have largely not experienced this, and i dont know why. ... .

 reading this makes me sad.  I want to share that I think sometimes missing comes later. For example, when that person I spoke about died, I still miss her on and off and it's already been a few years. It comes and goes--I don't feel the same depth of sadness anymore. At one time I started to question if I had short-circuited the grieving out of fear of numbing-off sadness--but subsequently I've bawled my eyes out on a few occasions--mostly in private--so it gave me assurance that I didn't "mess up" the grieving process.   

i have consciously noticed moments ... .its not particularly painful.

Yes I think I get this. When I lost an acquaintance, I didn't expect myself to undergo as much pain as the nuclear family. I know it's kinda "duh", but remembering that helped me let go of what I was "supposed" to be doing.

... .memories. they dont particularly pain me. ... .and isnt good or bad.

Yes, I think it's neither good or bad. When I was reading this, I remembered that passage from Khalil Gibran:

And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

I imagine if the oak was removed, the cypress whom it overlapped leaves with would 'feel' the loss of the object more than the seedlings of the trees. So then it indeed just is that the seedling's feelings are of course different from the cypress. 

i happened to see a movie ... .im praying about the distance.

What do you mean?

[Turkish]

“…all mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated; God employs several translators; some pieces are translated by age, some by sickness, some by war, some by justice; but God’s hand is in every translation, and his hand shall bind up all our scattered leaves again for that library where every book shall lie open to one another.” - John Donne

[heartandwhole]

“…all mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated; God employs several translators; some pieces are translated by age, some by sickness, some by war, some by justice; but God’s hand is in every translation, and his hand shall bind up all our scattered leaves again for that library where every book shall lie open to one another.” - John Donne

What a beautiful quote, Turkish. Lovely metaphor.

[valet]

i also strongly agree that we must be present with our grief, which i will touch more on below. i guess the difference that i see is that you "get over" an ex. im so far removed from any pain from that experience. im no longer adjusting to or coping with the loss, i have nothing but positive takeaways. i dont mean that i wont heal, or necessarily benefit, i just dont see how it can be as rosy when it comes to the death of a loved one.

That makes total sense. I think we're comparing apples to oranges here. I feel the way you feel about your ex about my dad. I got over it. I don't look back on it negatively.

The relationship that I had with my ex still doesn't feel like that. I'm still going through the grief cycles of it. I am mostly through it, but to say that it doesn't still bother me every once and while would be a lie. Still, I know that everything is going to be alright, and I mostly feel positive about it.

I think you know where you are as far as grieving this loss goes. It does change you, for sure. And it takes some time to adjust to those changes. I mean, when I really think about it I wonder... .what does it really even mean 'to get over' something? I don't know. I guess it's just learning that it doesn't hold us back, and knowing that at some deep level that the sun always rises, etc.