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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: He says that I have to fix all that I have done to him or he can’t come home.  (Read 1026 times)
5xFive
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« on: April 04, 2018, 09:59:57 AM »

My uBPDh has been dysregulating big time the last few days. Yesterday he told me that I need to figure out how to fill the void inside of him or he can’t come home. He even paid $150 that we do not have for divorce papers online. He did come home. When he got home, I was laying down with our 16mo old to help her fall asleep. He starts raging about how I’ve ruined his life. Then s7 comes running in the room (away from dad- to hide) and lays in the bed with us. H comes in and screams that he wants a divorce and full custody. Poor s7 quietly asks me what is custody. H screams at him that the kids are going to come live with him full time bc he can’t trust me to mother them. I tell husband that I will talk to him but not in front of the kids and not while he’s yelling that s7 is just a CHILD and shouldn’t have to hear this. H screams then he is leaving. S7 is sobbing now and asks me if he doesn’t have a dad anymore. I told him that he will always have a dad and he says he doesn’t want to live away from me. I tried to validate his fears the best I could but argh I’m so mad!
Then today h starts in how he is going to kill himself, he has made a video for the kids. We have been through this before. I have called the police twice on him. The first time they took him to the hospital and released him bc he was under stress. The second time he raged at me that I should have known he wasn’t serious and so I asked the cops to leave. It was a huge hassle but they did. I was warned though that if I ever call again, they will take him or they will take me. So I tell h that I am going to call and he immediately drops into how I’m going to ruin his life. I tell him that I’m trying to save his life and after much back and forth he says again that he’s not going to kill himself and I should know him better.
Then the anger comes back. And again I have been given the ultimatum that I have to FIX all that I have done to him over the last 17yrs or he can’t come home. He NEEDS something from me but he doesn’t know what it is. He needs me to figure it out and he’s not coming home until I do.
Can you please help me work through this? What is the best response to keep from making things worse? Thank you.
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2018, 12:07:00 PM »

My uBPDh has been dysregulating big time the last few days. Yesterday he told me that I need to figure out how to fill the void inside of him or he can’t come home. He even paid $150 that we do not have for divorce papers online. He did come home. When he got home, I was laying down with our 16mo old to help her fall asleep. He starts raging about how I’ve ruined his life. Then s7 comes running in the room (away from dad- to hide) and lays in the bed with us. H comes in and screams that he wants a divorce and full custody. Poor s7 quietly asks me what is custody. H screams at him that the kids are going to come live with him full time bc he can’t trust me to mother them. I tell husband that I will talk to him but not in front of the kids and not while he’s yelling that s7 is just a CHILD and shouldn’t have to hear this. H screams then he is leaving. S7 is sobbing now and asks me if he doesn’t have a dad anymore. I told him that he will always have a dad and he says he doesn’t want to live away from me. I tried to validate his fears the best I could but argh I’m so mad!
Then today h starts in how he is going to kill himself, he has made a video for the kids. We have been through this before. I have called the police twice on him. The first time they took him to the hospital and released him bc he was under stress. The second time he raged at me that I should have known he wasn’t serious and so I asked the cops to leave. It was a huge hassle but they did. I was warned though that if I ever call again, they will take him or they will take me. So I tell h that I am going to call and he immediately drops into how I’m going to ruin his life. I tell him that I’m trying to save his life and after much back and forth he says again that he’s not going to kill himself and I should know him better.
Then the anger comes back. And again I have been given the ultimatum that I have to FIX all that I have done to him over the last 17yrs or he can’t come home. He NEEDS something from me but he doesn’t know what it is. He needs me to figure it out and he’s not coming home until I do.
Can you please help me work through this? What is the best response to keep from making things worse? Thank you.

Hello 5xFive,

First off, I am VERY sorry that you are dealing with such outrageous behaviors at this moment, I can completely relate, and concur with what you are now experiencing.

So what to do?... .immediate action?

*Try to deescalate things, can you leave with your children for a while, is there somewhere safe you can go?
-Friends?
-Family?
-Neighbors?

*You know that there is no discussion and or reasonable communications possible in the midst of such dysregulations, best to either leave or go underground, ie’ "bunker-down".
-Is there any credible threat of physical violence towards yourself, or your children?
-Is your h/BPD capable of self-harm (credible threat)?

*Do you have access to a vehicle?

*Do you have a cell, and charger that you can leave with if you need to go?

*I keep a "bail-out" bag ready for myself and my son need be.
-Clothes.
-Toiletries.
-Even food & cash.

*Extra spare key outside so that h/BPD cannot “lock you and the kids out”.

*Know exactly where your car keys are, and cell phone in case you have to flee in a big hurry, you will know when its time to gather them up close by, don’t get caught short between him and the door, and your kids… be prepared, be aware, and think in advance.

*Cash, or a credit card that h/BPD cannot sabotage, ie’ render useless so that you can get away safe to a hotel or fiends home need be.

*Neighbors, are there any you may depend on if things get really bad and you have to flee / leave very quickly, a safe haven.

*Police, if h/BPD really tries a suicidal gesture, a credible one, a self-destructive one, do call the cops, in some cases he will be put into a mental facility until he is stable enough to release, in my home state , they call this "Baker Acting" someone.
[To Baker Act someone means that you initiate the process for an involuntary and emergency psychiatric examination of a person with a mental illness at a Florida hospital or crisis unit. This refers to a specific Florida law and it only applies to proceedings within the state of Florida. Other states have their own rules and proceedings concerning involuntary psychiatric care.]

*Communications:
-Family, will they support you, help you.
-Therapist, do you have one, or perhaps a Pastor.
-Close friends; trust worthy?   

*My best advice is to not engage him when he is raging like that, and in front of the minor children is NOT right, and very bad behavior, they WILL remember this, and not a good situation at all.

*Income/career, is h/BPD the only income, or do you work as well, assets, income, security of the home and finances?… and who controls the bank accounts?

*If it were me, I would absolutely ignore all the blather that he is spouting, it’s all junk talk, total BS... .ignore it, unless he makes a clear and credible threat of violence towards you, the kids, or himself.

*If he does make a credible threat, ACT accordingly!

*Dominance, I may try to establish some strong expeditionary/expedient boundaries... .assert your adult position, communicate in so many words, and do not JADE, or validate, a straight up verbal declaration:

"I am NOT going to put up with this nonsense ANY longer, you will NOT speak in this manner or tone to me any longer, you WILL speak to me with respect, and you WILL control your temper in the presence of our children, do YOU understand."

“YOU will get control of your temper, and you WILL act like a responsible adult”

“I will no longer allow you to make direct threats towards me, either you get control of yourself, or I will, do YOU understand”

Repeat this as necessary, and affirm it as necessary.

Establish dominance, and positional power, if at all possible.

There are social services available in most communities, for young mothers with children who are abuse victims, and I do classify what I am reading above as abuse.

I see the triggers there for escalation of his actions beyond verbal, so please be careful 5xFive,

I think you are indeed dealing with a grown adult child here, he is certainly not acting like any semblance of a mature adult father or else husband.

Stay calm, and protect yourself, and try to come up with a necessary contingency plan to protect yourself, and you're children, as your h/BPD doesn't not seem to have any control over his behaviors, please know and realize this, and act accordingly.

Please keep us posted, and hang in there, but be mindful and absolutely aware of what is going on, and be careful, .

Red5
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2018, 12:19:25 PM »


Did you call?

It would seem that he is at the point to let professionals deal with his threats of suicide?  Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2018, 12:48:35 PM »

Thank you for your reply Red5

*Try to deescalate things, can you leave with your children for a while, is there somewhere safe you can go?
-Friends?
-Family?
-Neighbors?

I have friends, and my mom is nearby. But the few times I have reached out, I have not be met with support, rather criticism for staying in such a marriage. Since I cannot answer the question why I stay, it is easier for me to not reach out to others.

-Is there any credible threat of physical violence towards yourself, or your children?
-Is your h/BPD capable of self-harm (credible threat)?
The most violence I have ever witnessed in the last 18yr from my husband is destruction of property. The walls and doors mostly. I made him take responsibility for the walls and since he repaired them, he has not put any more holes in them. The doors are another story. There is not a single door in our home that is not broken. I am waiting for him to replace those. In the meantime we live with holey doors and a blanket covering the jamb from the kitchen to the garage. When he is in a rage, the closest electronic device is often obliterated. Phones - he has had to replace so many phones that the ATT insurance dropped us. He now does not have a personal phone - just his work phone. A TV once, recently his wireless keyboard, remotes, x-box controllers, if it is nearby and smallish, he will throw it or slam it on the floor until it is in pieces.

*Do you have access to a vehicle?

*Do you have a cell, and charger that you can leave with if you need to go?

*I keep a "bail-out" bag ready for myself and my son need be.
-Clothes.
-Toiletries.
-Even food & cash.

*Extra spare key outside so that h/BPD cannot “lock you and the kids out”.

*Know exactly where your car keys are, and cell phone in case you have to flee in a big hurry, you will know when its time to gather them up close by, don’t get caught short between him and the door, and your kids … be prepared, be aware, and think in advance.

*Cash, or a credit card that h/BPD cannot sabotage, ie’ render useless so that you can get away safe to a hotel or fiends home need be.

*Neighbors, are there any you may depend on if things get really bad and you have to flee / leave very quickly, a safe haven.

*Police, if h/BPD really tries a suicidal gesture, a credible one, a self-destructive one, do call the cops, in some cases he will be put into a mental facility until he is stable enough to release, in my home state , they call this "Baker Acting" someone.
[To Baker Act someone means that you initiate the process for an involuntary and emergency psychiatric examination of a person with a mental illness at a Florida hospital or crisis unit. This refers to a specific Florida law and it only applies to proceedings within the state of Florida. Other states have their own rules and proceedings concerning involuntary psychiatric care.]

*Communications:
-Family, will they support you, help you.
-Therapist, do you have one, or perhaps a Pastor.
-Close friends; trust worthy?   

*My best advice is to not engage him when he is raging like that, and in front of the minor children is NOT right, and very bad behavior, they WILL remember this, and not a good situation at all.
I have only ever loaded the kids up once to leave. He was so loud and scary that I put them in the car. We were all in our pajamas. I did wish I had a "go" bag at that time and thought to myself I should pack one. I did not have a plan to go anywhere, I just needed to get away from him. We left for about 30 mins and did end up going back. He had calmed down by the time we got back.

I have my own car and because my cell case is my wallet, as long as I have my phone, I have access to my debit card and ID. I have my own credit card, though at this point it is at the max. I have never felt that I needed to spend the night elsewhere and again - see above. But if I did, I am confident that even with the judgement, doors would be opened to me and the kids.

I too am in Florida and tried to have him Baker Acted. In Illinois, it is called a 5150 hold. He was put on a 5150 when he was a teen - 72 hours for observation. I attempted the Baker Act here. The police took him to the hospital and released him the same day. We have since moved from a condo to a house and when I called the second time, the SAME police officer arrived and he recognized me! :-O

H talked himself out of that one too but bc police recognized me, he threatened what I said before. Next time it is him or me... .


*Income/career, is h/BPD the only income, or do you work as well, assets, income, security of the home and finances? … and who controls the bank accounts?

Nope. I work too. I work from home make about the same amount that he makes monthly. He wouldn't know how to pay a bill or log into the bank account if a magical fairy came down and told him she would give him a trillion dollars if he logged into his bank so she could deposit it.
The other day, he spent that money and then called me to ask how to log into the bank to cancel it. I had to explain that that isn't how it works... .

I see the triggers there for escalation of his actions beyond verbal, so please be careful 5xFive,

I think you are indeed dealing with a grown adult child here, he is certainly not acting like any semblance of a mature adult father or else husband.

Stay calm, and protect yourself, and try to come up with a necessary contingency plan to protect yourself, and you're children, as your h/BPD doesn't not seem to have any control over his behaviors, please know and realize this, and act accordingly.
Thank you, I will. I think the biggest issue I am having is that I feel BAD for him. I can tell he is suffering from depression and he is counting on me to figure out how to make him feel better! Codependency jumps into the mix and I WANT to fix him. I know I can't but I can't figure out how to respond to: "figure out how to give me what I need or I am leaving".
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2018, 12:51:48 PM »

Did you call?

It would seem that he is at the point to let professionals deal with his threats of suicide?  Thoughts?

FF

I did not call. He got so scared that I was going to. He said I would ruin his life if I called 911 - he said that he isn't going to kill himself. I should know him well enough to know that he is in pain and is just saying that bc he wants to end the pain. This has happened every time he threatens. I do not believe that he would ever do it at this point, based on prior events. Boy would I be surprised and grieved if I am wrong one of these times.
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5xFive
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2018, 01:01:35 PM »

His dysregulation pattern is:
Frustration -  with EVERYTHING. grows and grows
Anger - raging out on me for being a horrible person - hating me
Depression - threats of suicide that he does not follow through with
Despondency (not sure this precisely names it) - hating himself, giving up, not participating, withdrawing completely from the family and any attempt at communication

then he starts to cycle up. It usually takes 2.5-3 days. The rages are getting worse. And the impulsive behavior - paying for divorce papers, withdrawing cash from the atm, etc. He has no idea what is in the bank or what it is for so he just spends what he wants when he wants and damn the consequences. But ONLY in the Anger phase. In the Despondency phase, he won't even buy himself lunch. He acts like a young child in this phase. And normally, he talks to me about what he wants to spend and we discuss it.

The last few rages have been the same though - fix me, I am suffering. You made me suffer so it is your job to make me feel better... .
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2018, 03:33:14 PM »

Hi 5xFive

You have received a lot of good advice about keeping safe, I don't know how it works where you live but the Police may be able to list your address as 'vulnerable' for a quick response just in case things deteriorate. If the rages are getting worse you need to be prepared, its a small step from smashing doors or tv's to something worse.

"Fix Me" - well you can't because you are not the cause of it, look after yourself and hard as it is he has to figure things out for himself has he ever had any help from professionals beyond the brief hospital visits?

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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2018, 04:26:36 PM »

Ortac77,
He has not had help as an adult at ALL. When he was put on a hold as a teen, he was in the hospital for 72 hours. Prior to that, his parents took him to therapy but this was the 80s and the dawn of ADD. Plus anytime someone had a problem the answer was: there’s a prescription for that! He was put on ADHD drugs when he was FOUR. I mean what? By 7 he was misdiagnosed as bipolar (he’s definitely BPD although not diagnosed; I’m sure he’s not bipolar) and by 9, he was taking lithium which is ridiculous. They made it hard for him to focus in school and so he started selling his pills in early high school instead of taking them. He got in trouble and his parents were idiots and signed him out of school at 16. As soon as he was signed out, he hit the road and lived with the hippie underground traveling around the country and doing acid. As if he himself were Ken Kesey. He has since blamed every single problem he has had with the regulation of his emotions on his childhood therapists and his inability to develop his brain properly, due to the meds. Until the last 5 years or so. Now he’s moved past that and anything and everything that goes wrong is my fault. But he has said more times than I can possibly count that he will never EVER go to therapy again... .it’s sad. I think therapy is amazingly helpful and I would love to see him get help. But I don’t see that wall coming down.
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2018, 06:11:56 AM »

Hi 5xFive

I get the compassion you are showing for how he was treated when younger, It does sound like his experiences were horrendous and an understandable fear of therapy.

The problem as I have experienced with my pwBPD is that they look to their relationship partner to save them, but because of nature of the illness they cannot do relationships very well and whilst love and compassion are commendable the can do little to help somebody dealing with deep and distressing internal conflict. In fact what I found was that in trying to help I was probably making things worse for both of us because however much I might want to 'rescue' I could not and ended up damaging myself in the attempt.

This is why dealing with this illness is so tough as attested by so many on these boards.

In peace
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2018, 06:30:06 AM »

Dear @fiveby5,
I’m so sorry your husband is in the midst of dysregulating episode. When the emotions fly high, the tension builds, its very frightening and real experience for any person, let alone a mother trying to protect her children. It’s important to reign in your own emotions and feelings, in case of BPD you can’t fight fire with fire. Anything you say or do has to be precisely measured and thought through before executing. I agree with other members regarding setting firm boundaries and letting your BPDh face the consequences of his actions and impulsivity. I also encourage you to hear what he isn’t saying explicitly. Did anything change in your interaction recently? Did you step away or distance yourself in any way?
Sounds like you were extremely successful at regulating his emotions. He learnt to rely on you, as external force of calming him down. Now that you have other “distractions” your children, he is fighting for your attention and involvement in his mood regulations.
I’m making a wild guess here, please forgive me for being presumptuous, but I imagine when he dysregulates in front of the children, you immediately react to soothe him so he doesn’t frighten them. I say that because I leave it. My uBPDh is using my now teenagers as bargaining chips in his attempts to illicit a reaction. It still works, because I obviously love them and want to protect them from any long term psychological damage. One of the therapist that I saw caught me off guard, I want to share her simple wisdom with you: “ his intimidation tactics work because you are afraid of loosing him. If you take away the fear of divorce and abandonment, he has no power over you. You have to walk your worst case scenario, detach from your emotions”.
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2018, 08:47:46 AM »

“ his intimidation tactics work because you are afraid of loosing him. If you take away the fear of divorce and abandonment, he has no power over you. You have to walk your worst case scenario, detach from your emotions”.

I had to comment on this because it is almost exactly what my Therapist said to me, it took a while to grasp it but there is a truth there and it is only now that I don't fear the end of my relationship that I feel free to make my own choices in life
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2018, 09:11:21 AM »

ortac77 writes:
The problem as I have experienced with my pwBPD is that they look to their relationship partner to save them, but because of nature of the illness they cannot do relationships very well and whilst love and compassion are commendable they can do little to help somebody dealing with deep and distressing internal conflict. In fact what I found was that in trying to help I was probably making things worse for both of us because however much I might want to 'rescue' I could not and ended up damaging myself in the attempt…


Snowglobe writes:
One of the therapist that I saw caught me off guard, I want to share her simple wisdom with you: “ his intimidation tactics work because you are afraid of losing him. If you take away the fear of divorce and abandonment, he has no power over you. You have to walk your worst case scenario, detach from your emotions…


BINGO !

For me… “fearing the end of my relationship” meant severe codependency, which can be a very self destructive "configuration" if this continues unabated, .I am no longer codependent now in my current marriage relationship, as I learnt this life lesson the hard way in my first marriage.

Red5
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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2018, 11:59:05 AM »

I agree with all of you.
I’ve been trying to say it to him in a way that he understands but all that come see out is: how can you expect me to know what you need if YOU don’t even know what you need?
Not the best response and it escalates the rage. He has come home each day but today he came home for lunch and packed a bag. Said that until I make a gesture he is not coming home. I said I’m happy to make a gesture if he tells me what he needs. He tells me to figure it out. And the frustrating circle continues. Argh!
I finally told him I guess I’ll see him when I see him. Again, terrible response but I’m so frustrated right now.
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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2018, 01:06:23 PM »


I finally told him I guess I’ll see him when I see him. Again, terrible response but I’m so frustrated right now.

No... .I disagree... .I think you basically had it right.  In fact... .I would ask him more questions... .in an incredulous way.

So... .you are not able to do stuff on your own... .and I am somehow responsible for your feelings and decisions?

When he says yes... .

Then say that you have decided his best way forward is for care from a psych team... .and it's time to get in the car to go. 

Of course... he'll remember he can be in charge of himself then.

I think you doing anything he suggests along those lines (making a gesture) would be validating the invalid.

FF
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« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2018, 02:27:37 PM »

Ah FF. Thank you so much. I too think it is invalid and it’s nice to be validated.  

I “made the mistake” (not sure it was a mistake per say) of telling him that I am not responsible for his feelings as he is not responsible for mine about 10years ago. He STILL brings it up when he dysregulates. How we are married and therefore responsible for each other and how the other feels. And how I hurt him so much and we should just divorce if that’s how I feel. I wasn’t able to explain it in a way that made sense to him so I gave up and now I just stay silent when he brings it up. He deeply believes that we are responsible for each other’s feelings and decisions. So much so that he thinks I need psychiatric care for the disorder that he says I have... .it’s hard to stay rational myself in the face of such surety and I question everything.
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« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2018, 02:54:40 PM »

 
So... in general.  When they bring up whackoland beliefs... .if you can be quizzical yet interested... .and keep asking them questions, it will likely work out better.

Especially if you can find places to pivot and ask about feelings... .once you have a clear validation target... .that's where you will likely "make some money".

FF
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2018, 12:56:26 PM »

I’m not sure if it is ok to share this, but I saw this video on Facebook a couple of weeks ago:
https://youtu.be/dMZ2aNnJdx8

It really encompasses what I was trying to say to h about responsibility for each other’s emotions etc. I did not share it with him when I saw it. I didn’t think he would be open to receiving it. In fact he mentioned again last night how hurt he still is by my comment 10years ago about not being responsible for his feelings.  So I enjoyed it and let it validate MY feelings like: YEA that’s what I’m saying!

Today, my h sent it to me. He said he wants to be more reflective and he came across the video and it makes a lot of sense to him. WOW!

I wanted to share with you all.  
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2018, 03:49:56 AM »

Hello 5xFive,

It's been a while.  How are you doing?

WW
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2018, 10:45:43 AM »

Hi WW
Thanks for checking in. We had a decent week, no arguing. Our 13yr anniversary (first in 3yr without him screaming at me). But today we’re back at it. Same thing. Fix my life. You broke it, you should fix it. I was looking back at some journals I have and on our anniversary last year, he gave me until midnight to find an answer and fix the problem. So a year later, I’m still getting the same ultimatum. That was interesting to me. I would like to find an answer for him. I would like for him to have the life that he wants. I saw a meme that says to live the life you don’t need to take a vacation from. Does anyone really have that? Idk. I don’t. I don’t blame HIM though. My life would have been very different if I hadn’t met him. I know this to be true. Not just the arguing and the screaming etc. but I would have gone in a completely different direction. But that’s not what happened. I did meet him. And this is my life. I wish he felt the same way.
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« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2018, 11:16:56 AM »

We had a decent week, no arguing. Our 13yr anniversary (first in 3yr without him screaming at me). But today we’re back at it.

Same thing. Fix my life. You broke it, you should fix it. I was looking back at some journals I have and on our anniversary last year, he gave me until midnight to find an answer and fix the problem. So a year later, I’m still getting the same ultimatum.

Good Morning 5xFive,

Sounds like a broken record doesn't it... .

Well actually, if my u/BPD wife thought I had a record (journal), she would have broken it (smashed it) long ago anyways... .ha ha ha (LoL) !

So there you go, .a little humor is always a good thing eh'

Sending good Karma your way !

Best Regards, Red5

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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 09:26:09 AM »

This sounds very much like what I'm dealing with. I don't have any answers or suggestions, but I want you to know you are not alone.  My husband has been telling me he's called his lawyer and our marriage is over.  He's claiming that I have ruined his credit (we have no credit together and dont even have a joint bank account, but because I owe him a few hundred bucks he is claiming that the recent drop in his credit score is my fault and it will take him five years to recover from this). He is destroying many of my things because he said he feels like i like my things more than him. yesterday he ripped pages from two books I've had since I was a child that I hvae a lot of sentimental attachment to. It's so hard. I dont know if we are going to recover, but he's not making it easier.

He does see a therapist, b ut he's been seeing her for two years and she hasn't suggested that he may have BPD and hasn't really made any progress with him. I think it's time he finds a new therapist, but he doens't listen when I suggest this.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 11:46:32 PM »

5xFive,

Good to hear from you!  It sounds like your home business is doing well?  And the walls got fixed!

WW
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2018, 06:42:35 PM »

WW,

Lol. Yes. The walls are fixed. Still patched, not painted but that’s just bc I’m too busy to do it and it’s not something he will do.
Business is good. In fact I’m crazy busy. I’m an independent contractor for a company and they LOVE me and keep giving me more work. I’m going to have to start turning down work soon which is crazy to me, considering how low my ego was just 6 months ago when I was fired. The days where I get 250 texts and I feel bullied into calling him over 100 times still happen. And it still affects my work. But now I can just take that day off and make it up over the next couple of days. As long as I make it to meetings and hit deadlines, I’m good.
The next project is the doors in the house. Only one door has not been ruined by rages and that is the front door. The door from the kitchen to the garage is missing, ripped off it’s hinges as if he were the hulk. Every other door has either been slammed so hard that the frame has split or they have holes in them. Every. Other. Door. He told me this past weekend that he thinks it contributes to his depression and he would like to start replacing them. We shall see.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2018, 11:50:07 PM »

That's pretty fantastic about the business!  I expected a small business start up to go slowly.  It looks like you targeted your business perfectly and picked something you're doing well at!  That's pretty awesome after the setback.

250 texts I understand.  That's a lot.  But I can see how it is technically possible.  How do you call him 100 times?  What does one of those days look like?  How frequent are they?  Is it working for you, or is that something you'd target to improve?  Please accept my apologies, I escaped from the "Bettering" board.  Uh oh, I'd better get going, I hear them coming to drag me back... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

WW
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2018, 04:11:06 PM »

Lol WW.
Most of those texts are not from me. I counted one day bc I was curious and he sent me 72 texts before I responded. 72! And they are horrible. But the rule is I am not allowed to reply to texts, I have to call. Receiving texts gives him anxiety... .
So a lot of those texts are him telling me how bad I am for not calling. So I call. And inevitably break another rule or promise and he hangs up and the texts start again. So a lot of the calls are me being ignored. Shut down from communication.
Yes. I would very much like to improve this pattern.
Re: the work, I found a company that offers the same service I was trying to start. I’m working for them as an independent contractor and I’m doing well. They keep giving me more work. It’s nice. I keep taking it in to try to catch up from everything we fell behind on when I wasn’t working. But I think I finally hit my max and will have to start turning things down now. I’m hoping to pay our last overdue bill at the end of May.
Thanks for checking in!
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WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2018, 05:19:50 PM »


Why not follow your own rules?  If texts give him anxiety... .let him know that texts do the same for you.

He respects you... .you respect him.

Listen:  Has following the "rules" got him to a better place?    So... why keep doing it?

FF
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2018, 02:31:45 AM »

Hello 5xFive,

Yes, I remember this texting/calling issue in another one of your threads.  His rule is that you can't text him.  Was there also a work rule or some restriction on him placing outgoing calls?

You need to break the pattern in a way that enforces boundaries, but leaves an opening for him to communicate appropriately and feel loved.  You may have to put up with extinction bursts and threats, but you are going to need to hold firm because being inconsistent makes things even worse.

Getting this whole thing worked out may end up having more than one boundary and more than one consequence.  You absolutely can do this!  For example, him hanging up on you is disrespectful, ineffective, and tremendously invalidating to you.  Fruitless calls affect his work and yours.  When he hangs up on you, what's the timeline of what happens after that?  How soon do the texts start?  How soon after a hangup do you typically call back?

After a hangup, pick a period of time to not even look at your phone.  Make sure you don't even know the texts are coming in.  Get some work done.  I set a timer for this.  Then, pick up your phone.  Don't even read his texts.  Text him (I know this is against the rules, I'll get to that), and say, "I need a minute to calm down so I can listen to you better, I'll give you a call in X minutes."  Gradually stretch the time intervals so you have more of a break after a hangup, which means you'll get less in a day and they will eventually go away.

On the texting thing, a boundary is how we control our own behavior.  It'd work better if he is triggered for him to turn off his buzzer so he's not triggered.  If he needs to get work texts, then why isn't he triggered by them? If his texting rules are reasonable, great, respect them.  If not, you could say that you are observing your boundary by not following unreasonable rules.

If you want to keep life simple and not fight the text battle right now, then when you are face to face, say you really want to support him, but when he hangs up on you, you're finding it upsets you so much that when you call him back you're just not a good enough listener, so tomorrow, if he hangs up, you're going to wait an hour to call back.  Then you'll be able to be totally there for him the way you want to be.  No discussion, no justifying, change the subject, point out something shiny, shout "squirrel" in the living room , whatever is the lowest conflict way you can effectively move on.  Then the next day, do what you said you were going to do.  Every time.  Anticipate the blowback and escalation you will get from him (including the variety of scary threats he has made in the past) and figure out your reactions (or nonreactions) to them beforehand, so you don't have to decide on the fly and risk blowing your boundaries.

When the timer is running, don't look at the timer.  Get some work done.  Enjoy your freedom!

You absolutely can do this!

WW
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2018, 02:27:35 PM »

FF,
Has following the rules gotten us to a better place? I don’t know! I’ve never managed to follow them! This is one of his biggest complaints in fact. That I am a hypocrite and a promise breaker. I’ll be honest. I get confused and text back without thinking or interrupt when he’s talking and these are the promises I’m breaking. He’s right about that.
Texting is not a problem when things are calm. In fact, he agrees its easier to shoot him a text. I tried never texting and he said I was being extreme. It’s ok to text. Just not once he says no more texting. Lol.

WW,
Typically he hangs up and IMMEDIATELY starts texting me about how ignorant I am, etc. I like your idea of telling him that I’m going to wait some time to call him back, but I will definitely need to turn my phone on dnd because his texts give me anxiety too.
His reason for being allowed to text me is something like this: he sacrificed his life to live the life I wanted. He should get something in return. Even if it’s as little as he can text me all he wants but I can’t text back.
I have given myself a time limit before on calling him back. Maybe it is an extinction burst but he gets so mad. Says I’m leaving him alone when he’s at his lowest and that I’m never there for him. That’s my trigger. I work really hard to be there for him. I hate it when he says that.  But when I respond I AM there for him, he wants examples and proof. And I don’t know of any. So then I just agree that I’m not there for him and it validates that feeling for both of us. I think it damages our marriage. But I honestly can’t think of any proof, so... .
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formflier
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WWW
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2018, 10:15:43 AM »

  I tried never texting and he said I was being extreme. It’s ok to text. Just not once he says no more texting.

This is where you can agree with him.

No texting is extreme.  And that you hope he understands how confusing the texting and calling rules have gotten for you.  And that you will trust him to sort out his feelings about this.

So... let him know that you are up for kind respectful conversations... .and you will skip the other stuff, because it doesn't work for you anymore.


FF
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2018, 02:53:40 PM »

5xFive, one of the most useful things I learned about boundaries was that I didn't need to get my pwBPD to agree to them.  I was like, "Really?  Wow, that changes everything."  Once I realized it, I laughed at myself for being so absurd to think I could get agreement on boundaries.  It is always preferable to be able to discuss boundaries openly with a partner, but is not always possible.  In those cases, we may need work boundaries more like we do with our kids.  We think about them carefully, enforce them with love and no drama, and it works.

If he hangs up on you, then starts texting awful things to you, and you are supposed to miraculously be there for him without having any feelings of your own, that's not reasonable.  When our pwBPD is at the center of our universe, it's super tough to avoid getting sucked into their disordered perspective.  But on the flip side, we are not going to be able to convince them that our view is reasonable.  That's JADE.  You said how badly it goes when he asks you to explain yourself.  It's a trap.  It will never go well.  Have you ever been able to dodge giving an explanation to "prove" your commitment to him?  :)o you have any successful strategies, or are you stuck on that one?

Back to boundaries, you can go slow on this.  Just be consistent.  For example, you could start with only 20 minutes away from the phone.  Explain that that is what you need to do to remain calm and be there for him.  Then make sure your phone doesn't buzz or beep for those whole 20 minutes.  Set a timer, take a break.  If it doesn't break the pattern, you may have to gradually keep lengthening the time.  You can increase the time as slowly as you want.  You can do each break time for a day or a week before increasing.
Do what works for you.  The critical part is to be consistent and not backtrack.  Validate successes using thanks, compliments, or whatever approach works with him.

What do you say?  Ready to give it a whirl?

WW
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5xFive
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2018, 04:15:02 PM »

So I did try this today. He sent me a voice memo. Didn’t call, but he’s driving so he can’t text. He refuses to call. So the voice memo went something like: you know how much pain I’m in and you choose TODAY to try to regulate me? Well fine, you’ve pushed me into someone else’s arms because you choose not to be there for me.
And this triggered me. I was calm all day. Upset, didn’t get much work done, but calm. Until this. And then I saw my vision blurring on the edges and I felt my heart speed up and felt my breath get short.
Then he texted me that by forcing him to life this life, I took away his chance to become the person he was meant to be. That’s some powerful sh$&t right there! It sucks that he feels that way. Why do I want to be married to someone who believes ive done that to them? I don’t want that responsibility!
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WWW
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2018, 05:16:30 PM »

 
So... .listen... .  

This is hard stuff... .

Your husband spews a bunch of bellicose nonsense... . 

Well... .I would be faithful to you... but you made me hop in someone else's arms... .
 

I would have keep my pants zipped up... .but YOU MADE ME... .unzip... and place it in the care of another woman... .

I mean... if it was up to me... I'd be a good guy... .but my actions are not up to me... .they are up to YOU.

Why on earth would you listen to such nonsense in the first place?  And then let such nonsense "trigger" you and ruin your day.

   

Sadly... .we understand that the reasons we buy into such bellicose nonsense is/can be different for each of us.  That is a bit of a separate journey to figure out why... .which will help us step away from this silly kind of relationship stuff.

Please take special care today to care for yourself... be extra kind to yourself.   Try to figure out what you can do in the short run to step away from this stuff he is spewing.  Give yourself space and kindness... .even if he won't

Once you realize and start living your life in such a way where he doesn't get a vote to deny yourself space from toxic stuff... .and he doesn't get a vote to deny yourself kindness... .I suspect he will start making changes... vice give you up

   

FF
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2018, 05:43:47 PM »

Hi,

I second what ff.  says.

He is wise, smart, and on point.  What more can I say.

This community shows up huge.

j
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2018, 10:12:37 PM »

5xFive,

Sorry to be slow here.  And I'm so sorry for what you had to listen to.  I understand that, even though we know in our head that what they are saying is ridiculous, it still hits us in the gut, makes our head spin, and makes our vision blur at the edges.  Doesn't matter how smart we are.  We have feelings.

You started in the middle of the story.  He was complaining that you tried to regulate him.  Tell us how it went down from the start.

We've got confidence in you!

WW
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2018, 07:56:52 PM »

5xFive,

How are you doing these days?

WW
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