Lying about Marriage...BPD

[Struggler123]

Long story short so I fell for a girl with BPD, we were on and off for two years. I was so confused by her behavior and the breaking up all the time, I told her lets be friends and work our way up. Eventually we did, to the point where it was in between dating and the next step. She was keen on getting married and I wasn't ready. Then suddenly, after she tried a lot to somehow get me to marry her she one day just told me she was getting an arrange marriage and shes really happy with the guy. Now she still contacts me, and today was the day she didn't contact me, after our 1 hour phone call yesterday, where I told her that I don't want to feel like this anymore and I'm happy you are with this guy, but I can't be friends with you while I still have these feelings. She said that she was going to break things off with him and that I am the one for her, but I was the one that put her in this situation and shes doing it because of cultural issues. After that, I just told her I wanted to be alone for some time, and she said so you dont want to be friends, and it hurt that I was saying that, but I said yes I just want to be alone, and she said take care of yourself, I love you. I'm just conflicted because I know I wasn't ready for marriage, but I somehow feel responsible for pushing her away. I just wish things wouldn't have been on just her terms, she said I showed her no commitment. Thoughts? What should I do? I'm learning the whole art of No Contact, but its hard.

[Mutt]

Hi Struggler123,

No Contact is not one size fits all everyone’s situation is different. If it’s an arranged marriage I’d tell her to talk to her parents if she feels like you’re the one for her then she needs to fight for you, you can’t do that for her. Aside from all of that what’s really important is what you want. Do you want to be in a r/s with her?

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler123,

No Contact is not one size fits all everyone’s situation is different. If it’s an arranged marriage I’d tell her to talk to her parents if she feels like you’re the one for her then she needs to fight for you, you can’t do that for her. Aside from all of that what’s really important is what you want. Do you want to be in a r/s with her?

The problem is that, she was so pushy about the whole marriage thing that she wanted me to make a move asap, and it was almost like an ultimatium kind of scenario like if you don't do it I will get married to someone else. She said that I wasn't fighting for her and that I should have put a ring on it or some sort of commitment, and its my fault. Honestly, all I wanted was to take it slow, because I am confused, i'm not ready for marriage, but I would like to give us a chance if she was more patient, but she said she waited long enough for me.

[formflier]

  but I would like to give us a chance if she was more patient, but she said she waited long enough for me.

There are times to take people at their word... .and respect their values... and respect yours as well.

Marriage is a big deal... .if people that like each other have such different ideas about marriage... .

Then perhaps both can acknowledge that they like each other... .but "big picture" values are just different and not compatible with marriage.

No judgement that either party is bad... .you can both be disappointed.

Now... let's bring in the "BPD element" to this.  Most likely, when she realizes the threat isn't working... .she will calm and you guys can work on your relationship... .

Relationship by ultimatum is rarely a good thing...

FF

[Struggler123]

My ex BPD was very keen on marriage, and she kept pushing for it. I wouldn't budge, and eventually this let to the downfall of our relationship. A few days after, she said she was getting an arrange marriage and she was very happy with the guy, she would tell me about her outfit and how its 2 months from now e.tc. I eventually got mad, and I was like I don't even want to be friends with you don't contact me. I know I shouldn't care, but is this some twisted way to get me back? Or it could be possible that she really is getting married, but she still wants me around to satisfy the needs that he can't.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Struggler123,

I'm sorry to hear of your pain and confusion over this woman.     When you think of being in the r/s as it was, with her pressuring you to marry, how do you feel physically?  If you find that you feel uncomfortable, this is your body's way of telling you that something isn't right.  What I hear here is that she is pushing for something that doesn't fit with what you want and it is quite possible, in my experience, that she is fabricating this arranged marriage to scare you into fighting for her and changing your mind.  Whilst it is also possible that she is in fact in that situation, she still appears to be applying pressure to you to move your boundary with regards to the pace of your r/s.  This behaviour is all about her needs, and does not consider yours as she is likely feeling vulnerable and unable to see beyond her own wishes right now.   

A BPD sufferer fears abandonment and can be very fast moving in a r/s to push it to a place where they perceive they will feel secure.  That can be living together, marriage, having a child, financial commitments together.  The reality is that regardless of any of these things, the BPD symptoms will continue to play out through the cycles of idealisation and devaluation, so even if you were to marry her, the behaviours you've experienced would only shift to something else. 

I'd encourage you to think carefully about remaining steadfast in your wishes, as only through demonstrating healthy boundaries and considering your own well being would you ever be in a position to maintain any sort of r/s with her.  As formflier says, r/s by ultimatum is never a good thing. 

Now seems like a good time to take stock and think about what you can be doing for your own life at this moment to benefit yourself.  Taking a step back and allowing yourself some space to gain perspective and work on yourself will be a positive thing whether she comes back to you or not.  How long since your last conversation with her?

Love and light x   

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler123,

I'm sorry to hear of your pain and confusion over this woman.     When you think of being in the r/s as it was, with her pressuring you to marry, how do you feel physically?  If you find that you feel uncomfortable, this is your body's way of telling you that something isn't right.  What I hear here is that she is pushing for something that doesn't fit with what you want and it is quite possible, in my experience, that she is fabricating this arranged marriage to scare you into fighting for her and changing your mind.  Whilst it is also possible that she is in fact in that situation, she still appears to be applying pressure to you to move your boundary with regards to the pace of your r/s.  This behaviour is all about her needs, and does not consider yours as she is likely feeling vulnerable and unable to see beyond her own wishes right now.   

A BPD sufferer fears abandonment and can be very fast moving in a r/s to push it to a place where they perceive they will feel secure.  That can be living together, marriage, having a child, financial commitments together.  The reality is that regardless of any of these things, the BPD symptoms will continue to play out through the cycles of idealisation and devaluation, so even if you were to marry her, the behaviours you've experienced would only shift to something else. 

I'd encourage you to think carefully about remaining steadfast in your wishes, as only through demonstrating healthy boundaries and considering your own well being would you ever be in a position to maintain any sort of r/s with her.  As formflier says, r/s by ultimatum is never a good thing. 

Now seems like a good time to take stock and think about what you can be doing for your own life at this moment to benefit yourself.  Taking a step back and allowing yourself some space to gain perspective and work on yourself will be a positive thing whether she comes back to you or not.  How long since your last conversation with her?

Love and light x   

Thank you so much, honestly that was the best advice that anyone could give me. For the first time, I felt like I was doing something wrong, since I am not a bad person, but I felt like everytime I couldn't fulfill her needs that I became the bad person. Last conversation with her was yesterday, I told her to let me go and to block me, and she was like okay i love you and ill do this for you, but as long as you don't block me, and she blocked me. So I think its pretty much over at this point.

[formflier]

 Last conversation with her was yesterday, I told her to let me go and to block me, and she was like okay i love you and ill do this for you, but as long as you don't block me, and she blocked me. So I think its pretty much over at this point.

Hey struggler123,

The ultimatums that you are getting from you pwBPD are no good... .it seems you are gaining an understanding of that.

I would hope you can think about your communication style and choices around this.  

I suggest it would be better for you to communicate how you feel about the ultimatums and whether or not things "work for you and your values"... .

Perhaps offer what you are willing to do (think about the concept of building bridges towards someone).

Basically stating what you are able to offer and do in a relationship.  Solve your own part of the relationship.

I would generally stay away from solving the relationship problems or issues of others.  I often say "let them connect the dots"... .rather than YOU connect them for them.

So... specifically... .anything coming out of your mouth saying block me... don't block me... .or otherwise trying to control another person, is likely not a productive avenue.

It leads to things and thinking of "well... .I told them to do xyz... and they didn't... .so that means abc... .and I don't like abc... .so that means I will tell them to do efg... ."

fast forward...

"oh... .they did e and f... .but skipped G... which means (you get the picture)

when in reality... .they did what they did... .because that's what they do... .not because of what you "told them" to do... .or that they wanted to send you a secret message that "my actions mean abc... ."

Can you see that... ?

What if

"I'm hurt and confused by what I just heard from you.  :)id I hear abc right?" (lets assume they say yeah!)

"listen... .this is new to me... .I"m going to take some time and think this through.  Can we talk Monday night?"

So... .you have clarity about what they "mean" or "have said"... .and now you are deliberate about taking time to think about what YOU want to do.

Thoughts?

I say all this because... ."it's rarely really over" with a pwBPD.  I want you to be ready for "next time".  

Please don't hear me saying you should accept a recycle... .should one be offered... .but I want to equip you to think that through... when the opportunity comes, because my money bet is that it will come again at some point.

Thoughts?

FF

[Struggler123]

Hey struggler123,

The ultimatums that you are getting from you pwBPD are no good... .it seems you are gaining an understanding of that.

I would hope you can think about your communication style and choices around this.  

I suggest it would be better for you to communicate how you feel about the ultimatums and whether or not things "work for you and your values"... .

Perhaps offer what you are willing to do (think about the concept of building bridges towards someone).

Basically stating what you are able to offer and do in a relationship.  Solve your own part of the relationship.

I would generally stay away from solving the relationship problems or issues of others.  I often say "let them connect the dots"... .rather than YOU connect them for them.

So... specifically... .anything coming out of your mouth saying block me... don't block me... .or otherwise trying to control another person, is likely not a productive avenue.

It leads to things and thinking of "well... .I told them to do xyz... and they didn't... .so that means abc... .and I don't like abc... .so that means I will tell them to do efg... ."

fast forward...

"oh... .they did e and f... .but skipped G... which means (you get the picture)

when in reality... .they did what they did... .because that's what they do... .not because of what you "told them" to do... .or that they wanted to send you a secret message that "my actions mean abc... ."

Can you see that... ?

What if

"I'm hurt and confused by what I just heard from you.  :)id I hear abc right?" (lets assume they say yeah!)

"listen... .this is new to me... .I"m going to take some time and think this through.  Can we talk Monday night?"

So... .you have clarity about what they "mean" or "have said"... .and now you are deliberate about taking time to think about what YOU want to do.

Thoughts?

I say all this because... ."it's rarely really over" with a pwBPD.  I want you to be ready for "next time".  

Please don't hear me saying you should accept a recycle... .should one be offered... .but I want to equip you to think that through... when the opportunity comes, because my money bet is that it will come again at some point.

Thoughts?

FF

I like the way you spelt that out for me, the truth is that in order for me to be good in any relationship whether its a BPD one or a non-BPD one is to make myself better, its the part of accepting that it had nothing to do with me and that I could not control the outcome regardless of whether I had married her or not, because ultimately she would have never been 100% content with me until and unless she was ready to accept that there are somethings that she has to change about herself as well, and i cant do that for her. Another thing is that it was my first real relationship, and when you look at it from the outside, theres a different perspective. I found this forum, and I really thought that it could help me, figure things out. I was just having a hard time accepting that the same person that cried over me, said i love you every day to me, and came to see me everyday would actually put so many ultimatiums on me, when I honestly did give her everything I could. It was only when I couldn't provide her needs anymore that I started backing up. Any more tips, in case theres a recycle or she tries to come back?

[formflier]

https://www.gottman.com/

Lots of good stuff on there. 

Much better to control yourself... communicate your feelings and values... .

That tends to draw people in... vice push them away.

Telling people what to do (trying to control them) tends to drive most people away.

gottman is not specific to BPD... .although I have a hard time thinking of things you would learn there that would NOT be helpful in a BPD recycle.

FF

[Struggler123]

https://www.gottman.com/

Lots of good stuff on there.  

Much better to control yourself... communicate your feelings and values... .

That tends to draw people in... vice push them away.

Telling people what to do (trying to control them) tends to drive most people away.

gottman is not specific to BPD... .although I have a hard time thinking of things you would learn there that would NOT be helpful in a BPD recycle.

FF

Thank you so much for that resource I'll be sure to check it out. I honestly never gave my ex any ultimatiums, I was always trying to keep her happy, but sometimes I feel like you have to portray what you believe in. I can't believe she told me that I needed to get help because I said that I want to be alone. Even with me telling her to block me, I only did that because I felt like it would give her closure that I wasn't the one that abandoned her or anything like that. Sometimes I try to figure out how I became so invovled... .and had I married her would it really be this dramatic everyday... .Thoughts?

[formflier]

Thank you so much for that resource I'll be sure to check it out. I honestly never gave my ex any ultimatiums, I was always trying to keep her happy, but sometimes I feel like you have to portray what you believe in. I can't believe she told me that I needed to get help because I said that I want to be alone. Even with me telling her to block me, I only did that because I felt like it would give her closure that I wasn't the one that abandoned her or anything like that. Sometimes I try to figure out how I became so invovled... .and had I married her would it really be this dramatic everyday... .Thoughts?

Spending time figuring out how you became so involved will pay you lots of dividends.  I'm not so interested in exactly what you decide or conclude... .but that you are deliberate about being reflective.

Why was I attracted to her?  Why did I?

Here is a big one... .  Why I am in charge of her "closure"?

Does she have a closure disablity?  Is she unable? 

I'm obviously an advocate for a world in which Struggler123 works through his closure.  Does things because it will "give him closure".  And struggler123 trusts others to look out for their own best interests.

Hey man... .if this was your first big relationship (did I get that right)... .dude... welcome to the world of relationships.  Kaboom... .baptism by fire.

I would encourage you to find other relationships... let the develop.  Perhaps some stay platonic... perhaps some develop into something more.

FF

[Struggler123]

Spending time figuring out how you became so involved will pay you lots of dividends.  I'm not so interested in exactly what you decide or conclude... .but that you are deliberate about being reflective.

Why was I attracted to her?  Why did I?

Here is a big one... .  Why I am in charge of her "closure"?

Does she have a closure disablity?  Is she unable? 

I'm obviously an advocate for a world in which Struggler123 works through his closure.  Does things because it will "give him closure".  And struggler123 trusts others to look out for their own best interests.

Hey man... .if this was your first big relationship (did I get that right)... .dude... welcome to the world of relationships.  Kaboom... .baptism by fire.

I would encourage you to find other relationships... let the develop.  Perhaps some stay platonic... perhaps some develop into something more.

FF

That hit home for me, I think I needed a reality check, the only persons closure I should be worried about is myself. If I can't make myself happy, then I can't make anyone else happy. Sometimes its just hard to embrace the realities of BPD, because when its good its great but when its bad, you begin to question your sanity. I was so caught up in playing detective, because I actually felt like I was being replaced with this new guy (Real or fake) and the truth is I need to understand my own self-worth. And if she thinks that I can be friends with her and be okay with the hurt, its wrong, because I need time to heal myself and as long as shes in the picture I won't be able to, and thats reality. Thoughts?

[formflier]

A few comments, some of this is "life point of view things", not really aimed at BPD.  Perhaps said another way, many relationship skills that would work fine for "non disordered relationships" are not the best, but work out ok because two NON disordered people will work through booboos in a reasonable fashion.  Many of the skills we learn "because of" a BPD relationship will help all our relationships.

  If I can't make myself happy, then I can't make anyone else happy.

This would seem to be a harmless thought, because in most cases it means that you will be kind to someone and they will appreciate it... and they are "happy".

In disordered relationships a pwBPD can sometimes be referred to as a "black hole".  They will consume whatever is dumped in there... .and not appreciate it.  Then a "non" thinks "well... .I did all this to make them happy and they are not... .so maybe it's me

In other words you start thinking you are the "broken one" because someone else isn't happy that "you tried to make happy"

Reflect on that for a bit... .read it again.

Then... .

How is it a good idea to value our "victory" or "self worth" or anything really... based on another persons emotional state.

And... isn't it ok for people to feel differently.

So... .as long as you have been kind, compassionate, empathetic... .gave selflessly of your time... etc etc YOU should be pleased with yourself.  If someone else is NOT pleased... .let them be ok with that... let you be ok with that.  Move on with your life.

Sometimes its just hard to embrace the realities of BPD, because when its good its great but when its bad, you begin to question your sanity.

The good part and the bad parts are both so extreme... .

I would resist thinking that you want to "keep the good" and "get rid of the bad".  Neither are "normal".

I was so caught up in playing detective, because I actually felt like I was being replaced with this new guy (Real or fake) and the truth is I need to understand my own self-worth.

And... .perhaps you were being replaced.   You can be disappointed and sad.

Perhaps you were being manipulated  but not replaced.  Same thing... .express your disappointment and move on.

And if she thinks that I can be friends with her and be okay with the hurt, its wrong, because I need time to heal myself and as long as shes in the picture I won't be able to, and thats reality. Thoughts?

I would stay away from right and wrong.  I would even stay away from "that is wrong for me".

Try this on...

"Let's be friends... ."

you

"Given the threats between us, that just doesn't work for me"

It's succinct.  You state your values and someone your reasons.  You don't blame anyone.  

If she wants to believe you threatened yourself... .someone else threatened you... .that's her business.

You have stated loud and clear what doesn't work... .and are showing her and the world you will take action... .because YOUR VALUES MATTER.

I say it often "let her connect the dots... ."

FF

[Struggler123]

A few comments, some of this is "life point of view things", not really aimed at BPD.  Perhaps said another way, many relationship skills that would work fine for "non disordered relationships" are not the best, but work out ok because two NON disordered people will work through booboos in a reasonable fashion.  Many of the skills we learn "because of" a BPD relationship will help all our relationships.

This would seem to be a harmless thought, because in most cases it means that you will be kind to someone and they will appreciate it... and they are "happy".

In disordered relationships a pwBPD can sometimes be referred to as a "black hole".  They will consume whatever is dumped in there... .and not appreciate it.  Then a "non" thinks "well... .I did all this to make them happy and they are not... .so maybe it's me

In other words you start thinking you are the "broken one" because someone else isn't happy that "you tried to make happy"

Reflect on that for a bit... .read it again.

Then... .

How is it a good idea to value our "victory" or "self worth" or anything really... based on another persons emotional state.

And... isn't it ok for people to feel differently.

So... .as long as you have been kind, compassionate, empathetic... .gave selflessly of your time... etc etc YOU should be pleased with yourself.  If someone else is NOT pleased... .let them be ok with that... let you be ok with that.  Move on with your life.



The good part and the bad parts are both so extreme... .

I would resist thinking that you want to "keep the good" and "get rid of the bad".  Neither are "normal".


And... .perhaps you were being replaced.   You can be disappointed and sad.

Perhaps you were being manipulated  but not replaced.  Same thing... .express your disappointment and move on.


I would stay away from right and wrong.  I would even stay away from "that is wrong for me".

Try this on...

"Let's be friends... ."

you

"Given the threats between us, that just doesn't work for me"

It's succinct.  You state your values and someone your reasons.  You don't blame anyone.  

If she wants to believe you threatened yourself... .someone else threatened you... .that's her business.

You have stated loud and clear what doesn't work... .and are showing her and the world you will take action... .because YOUR VALUES MATTER.

I say it often "let her connect the dots... ."

FF

I never thought about anything this way, I felt like my thinking had always been clouded. Today day 2 of no contact, and im slowly pulling myself out of the emptyness. I'd be lying if I said I still didn't care about her, but I care about myself and my values more.  As for trying to understand more about myself, I realized that I am a people pleaser. It's a quality trait in me, and I'm working on making myself better as a whole as well. Like you said she should be the one connecting the dots, I did all I could and I'm content with myself. The worst part is that, she told me if I was to ask her to marry me she would drop the other guy instantly, and then I thought to myself, morally would I ever be wanted to be treated this way... and that was actually the moment where I wanted to move on. Thoughts? I don't know about you guys but these replies made me feel better, simply because you guys understand how different a BPD relationship is as compared to a normal one.

[formflier]

  The worst part is that, she told me if I was to ask her to marry me she would drop the other guy instantly, and then I thought to myself, morally would I ever be wanted to be treated this way... and that was actually the moment where I wanted to move on. 

Pure BPD manipulation.

How can being in a relationship with a person like this improve your life?

FF

[Struggler123]

Pure BPD manipulation.

How can being in a relationship with a person like this improve your life?

FF

That's what hurt me the most, that she was willing to do everything and anything she needed to get what she wants. I remember the time she told me she got into a car accident because of me and her car looked like nothing happened. In no way, would I want her to get hurt, but the lying to get love and affection is just wrong. I also realized that prior to this she never said I should seek help from a therapist e.tc. but the second I said I want my space and want to be alone, she told me that i'm acting crazy, and I should seek help because of the way im behaving and isolating everyone out of my life, and that its wrong. If you don't mind me asking, how are you so experienced in the whole BPD thing, I tried talking to my friends about it and they told me it was just normal relationship behavoir, and girls do this when they can't explain their feelings, but I knew something was wrong, and thats when I found this board.

[formflier]

. If you don't mind me asking, how are you so experienced in the whole BPD thing, I tried talking to my friends about it and they told me it was just normal relationship behavoir, and girls do this when they can't explain their feelings, but I knew something was wrong, and thats when I found this board.

First of all... ."some" of this stuff is present in all of us and in "normal" relationships.  The thing is... ."normal" people "nons" if you will, will have a bad day... .say crazy a$$ stuff... .get a good nights sleep... feel bad about it... and apologize.  

Right?  

The "problem" with BPDish behavior (and personality disorders in general) is that they truly believe they are normal and normal is crazy (ok... that's not a clinical explanation... but you get the gist of it)

OK... me... how did I get here?

Let's see how i do at being succinct... . 


I had about 16 years of "normal" marriage, although military deployments/lifestyle likely masked some level of dysfunction.  A natural disaster (flood) forced our family from the farm we were living on and we were displaced for about 6 months.

That even kicked off a "mental reaction" in me (some ptsd and heavy focus on "reality"... .basically I went in one direction.

In my wife "paranoia" showed up.  Knowing what  I know now... .I invalidated her bigtime.  She would believe I had other families, kids, wives, whores, secret bank accounts... .etc etc and I would "prove" myself innocent... .thinking that would "make her happy".  

"No Mrs FF... .he wasn't banging the redhead in that hotel this weekend.  As you can see from the physical evidence, he was out of the country and it was physically impossible for what you "know" happened... to have happened."

I mean... .you would think it's a good thing to prove fidelity... right?  Wrong!  She "felt" like it was true... .so I dealt with "facts" and that invalidated her "feelings"

So... .a couple years of crazy went on.  :)ude... .I mean... .crazy.  Multiple therapists... accusations... just crazy.

Finally... .a relatively new therapist called her out on something minor.  My wife said I was monologging and wouldn't let her speak in session.  The MC corrected and stated that I had spoken for 30 seconds before Mrs FF interrupted me... .before that Mrs FF spoke for 5 minutes without ceasing.

Now... .get this (this is a no sh$tter)  

My wife jumped out of her seat and went dancing/prancing around the room... .wagging her finger at the therapist.  Claiming the therapist was on my side... .didn't know what she was doing... .blah blah blah.

Then... my wife flings open the door (think really dramatic)... .shakes her head... wags finger some more and says she is never coming back... .slams door.

Room is quiet for a while.

I finally said something like... "So... what do you think I'm dealing with... .?"

She gave me the SWOE (stop walking on eggshells) book and my eyes were opened.  I quickly found this website.

Some more therapy... .some wisdom... and few years... .and poof.  FF is here today.

(the years of details I left out are interesting... .but I could go on forever)

Now... with invalidation gone... paranoia is pretty much gone.  

I don't do conflict anymore.  On the  rare occasions my wife gets cranked up... .I disengage within a minute or two.  

She is much more stable now... .has retreated into Christian zealotry... .where she has the power to figure out who is Christian and who is not.  From time to time she believes me to not be... .

She came to the realization that I was not Jesus and therefor she didn't have to obey me... .(a few years ago I would have challenged her... .tried to figure it out)  

I don't exactly remember my response... .but it was something like... ."Ohh... .well... .hmmm... .interesting"

Probably followed by the sound of the door as I left the room.

I'm going to say that 80% of my life is kinda normal now.  15% is weird if you payed attention and 5% (the your not Jesus stuff) is in the "dude... that's off the chart... ." area.

Thoughts?

FF

[Struggler123]

First of all... ."some" of this stuff is present in all of us and in "normal" relationships.  The thing is... ."normal" people "nons" if you will, will have a bad day... .say crazy a$$ stuff... .get a good nights sleep... feel bad about it... and apologize.  

Right?  

The "problem" with BPDish behavior (and personality disorders in general) is that they truly believe they are normal and normal is crazy (ok... that's not a clinical explanation... but you get the gist of it)

OK... me... how did I get here?

Let's see how i do at being succinct... . 


I had about 16 years of "normal" marriage, although military deployments/lifestyle likely masked some level of dysfunction.  A natural disaster (flood) forced our family from the farm we were living on and we were displaced for about 6 months.

That even kicked off a "mental reaction" in me (some ptsd and heavy focus on "reality"... .basically I went in one direction.

In my wife "paranoia" showed up.  Knowing what  I know now... .I invalidated her bigtime.  She would believe I had other families, kids, wives, whores, secret bank accounts... .etc etc and I would "prove" myself innocent... .thinking that would "make her happy".  

"No Mrs FF... .he wasn't banging the redhead in that hotel this weekend.  As you can see from the physical evidence, he was out of the country and it was physically impossible for what you "know" happened... to have happened."

I mean... .you would think it's a good thing to prove fidelity... right?  Wrong!  She "felt" like it was true... .so I dealt with "facts" and that invalidated her "feelings"

So... .a couple years of crazy went on.  :)ude... .I mean... .crazy.  Multiple therapists... accusations... just crazy.

Finally... .a relatively new therapist called her out on something minor.  My wife said I was monologging and wouldn't let her speak in session.  The MC corrected and stated that I had spoken for 30 seconds before Mrs FF interrupted me... .before that Mrs FF spoke for 5 minutes without ceasing.

Now... .get this (this is a no sh$tter)  

My wife jumped out of her seat and went dancing/prancing around the room... .wagging her finger at the therapist.  Claiming the therapist was on my side... .didn't know what she was doing... .blah blah blah.

Then... my wife flings open the door (think really dramatic)... .shakes her head... wags finger some more and says she is never coming back... .slams door.

Room is quiet for a while.

I finally said something like... "So... what do you think I'm dealing with... .?"

She gave me the SWOE (stop walking on eggshells) book and my eyes were opened.  I quickly found this website.

Some more therapy... .some wisdom... and few years... .and poof.  FF is here today.

(the years of details I left out are interesting... .but I could go on forever)

Now... with invalidation gone... paranoia is pretty much gone.  

I don't do conflict anymore.  On the  rare occasions my wife gets cranked up... .I disengage within a minute or two.  

She is much more stable now... .has retreated into Christian zealotry... .where she has the power to figure out who is Christian and who is not.  From time to time she believes me to not be... .

She came to the realization that I was not Jesus and therefor she didn't have to obey me... .(a few years ago I would have challenged her... .tried to figure it out)  

I don't exactly remember my response... .but it was something like... ."Ohh... .well... .hmmm... .interesting"

Probably followed by the sound of the door as I left the room.

I'm going to say that 80% of my life is kinda normal now.  15% is weird if you payed attention and 5% (the your not Jesus stuff) is in the "dude... that's off the chart... ." area.

Thoughts?

FF

I am really sorry you to face such a tough time. I can't even imagine how that must have made you feel. Not comparing situations, but I was lucky enough to leave when I was, and I suppose that this was a blessing in disguise even though I didn't want it to be true. I was so caught up in thinking I could make her better not realizing I was losing myself into it. I remember when I told her I couldn't marry her because I needed to focus on my career, she was like okay make some sort of commitment with me, a promise ring, something. And I told her that its wrong for me to lie to you and tell you that im ready, but I'm not so what the promise ring means to you, it wont mean the same thing to me and she was like so you cant even do this for me. I remember she brought everything I gave her and returned to me, and I felt so bad because I was like I would never do that to you, and then the next day she wanted all the stuff back, it was like a different person. The tactics just kept going and going, and now the latest one with the arranged marriage.  The truth is when we set boundaries we are considered the enemy, and when they set boundaries we are just suppose to accept it in stone. Sometimes I wonder, if I had married her, what was I going to do? Especially considering how divorce is shunned upon in particular cultures such as mine.

[Harley Quinn]

You've had some good advice here and mentioned you realised you're a people pleaser.  This is a category many of us fall into here, and a lot of us would describe ourselves as fixers, caretakers, white knights, or Codependent.  It's something a lot of nons have in common.  

Coming to this realisation allows you to be aware of your tendencies and to be deliberate about the approach you take going forward.  :)oes this apply in all your relationships with family, friends, peers?  What impact does it have on you?  The link I've given you above is to an excellent workshop which could be very helpful for you to read as you think about what happens from here for you.  

Love and light x

[formflier]

  but I was lucky enough to leave when I was, and I suppose that this was a blessing in disguise even though I didn't want it to be true. 

Please believe this... .

You are lucky... .

I have 8 children (7 were here before BPD showed up)... the other one came when I  thought things were "fixed" (I didn't know about the cyclical nature of this).

I have done a lot to stabilize my home... .once kids get in the mix it's a really tough call.

You dodged a bullet.  Trust me.

FF

[Struggler123]

Please believe this... .

You are lucky... .

I have 8 children (7 were here before BPD showed up)... the other one came when I  thought things were "fixed" (I didn't know about the cyclical nature of this).

I have done a lot to stabilize my home... .once kids get in the mix it's a really tough call.

You dodged a bullet.  Trust me.

FF

I’m so sorry to hear that, your kids are lucky they have such a strong person in their life. Knowing my nature, I would’ve been a wreck. The weird part was she used to initially tell me she didnt want to get married and have kids. And I remember telling her that being married and having kids is a blessing if theres a strong connection between you guys. And then as time went on, she became obsessed about marrying me because you know I was the one and thats why we dated in the first place. There were even threats, blocking me, but I never let it get to me. But then I cracked, when she said she was marrying this new guy and she goes you werent gonna ask me to marry you until i hit menopause and initially it was a joke until she said it like 3-4x and in my head im like your marrying someone else, and your telling me these things. Its all a jumble. Thoughts?

[Struggler123]

Just an update,

She sent me a snap and she posted on instagram, a picture saying, "blessed so its been confirmed and there was a ring emoji." At, which point a part of me snapped and here I was thinking that I should keep my promises, but i'm human. I deleted her everywhere, snapchat, instagram, facebook. I really did care, but I've never felt better. I let her control me for too long, and i'm glad I was able to survive the fire, with just a couple of burns. I know most of you would say, that my behavoir may have been childish, but I put my soul to make things work, but it was never enough, and the truth is it will never be enough. Maybe someday, I too can have a healthy relationship.

[formflier]

     


Do some things this coming week to be extra kind to yourself... .because you deserve it.

  I deleted her everywhere, snapchat, instagram, facebook. I really did care, but I've never felt better.

Take some time to reflect on this over the next few weeks... .find resolve.  Resolve to stay the course and hold fast to your decision.

FF

[Struggler123]

   


Do some things this coming week to be extra kind to yourself... .because you deserve it.

Take some time to reflect on this over the next few weeks... .find resolve.  Resolve to stay the course and hold fast to your decision.

FF

It's funny because right after I did that, she tried calling me and I deleted her from my contacts too, I think its time for me to focus on how I feel rather than her. She wanted marriage, she can have it. I couldn't have done it without your help. Now I hope I can use that anger to stay away and move on, bit by bit, making myself whole again.

[GD39]

I know most of you would say, that my behavoir may have been childish, but I put my soul to make things work, but it was never enough, and the truth is it will never be enough.

I dont think anyone would think that. Most of us, if not all, have been there. It is never enough, and in the meantime you get hurt over and over. It is more on us. I think I am getting to your point as well. Hopefully is soon, because my heart breaks every single time, and I am tired of feeling this way.

[Struggler123]

I dont think anyone would think that. Most of us, if not all, have been there. It is never enough, and in the meantime you get hurt over and over. It is more on us. I think I am getting to your point as well. Hopefully is soon, because my heart breaks every single time, and I am tired of feeling this way.

I was never big on social media, but I was tired and exhausted, the next thing to be posted would have been a picture of her and the guy, and the truth is I'm just not interested. I'm not jealous, because I know by the time she has time to recollect, ill be long gone.  I'm really sorry about what your going through. But trust me, whenever we feel like giving up, hope whispers one more time so believe in yourself. I trusted my gut, and it may not have gotten me the girl, but i'm one step closer to getting my dignity and identity back.

[Struggler123]

Another update, it seems when she realized I was slipping away, she decided to call me 4x and leave me messages, saying to speak to her for 5 minutes... when clearly theres nothing left to talk about.

[formflier]

Another update, it seems when she realized I was slipping away, she decided to call me 4x and leave me messages, saying to speak to her for 5 minutes... when clearly theres nothing left to talk about.

Yep... .

I would expect her to "up her game more"... .to try to get you to do your "normal" response and respond or come back to her.

Let her do what works for her.

Let you do what works for you.

FF

[Struggler123]

Yep... .

I would expect her to "up her game more"... .to try to get you to do your "normal" response and respond or come back to her.

Let her do what works for her.

Let you do what works for you.

FF

I apologize for the rant, but today has been a hard day for me. I'm in the process of studying for my boards, and every day I waste I feel guilty for. I sometimes wish I didn't see that instagram or snapchat post, because it kept replaying in my head. I really do want to believe the things she says, but I know for a fact if I was to tell her I'm moving on and heres my girlfriend Exhibit A. She would flip, and say "how could you let go of us." I mean I knew breakups are tough, been through casual ones but even then, I never keep contact with my ex's even if they try to reconnect. I feel like every person in our life serves a lesson or a purpose, and the minute we turn back, it stops us from moving forward. At times I blame myself, thinking that my life would be better if she was still with me, but then I remember all the times she got mad at me, the ultimatums. Sometimes, I blame myself for being such an introvert. Thoughts?