Bracing myself for an impact

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Not completely, but it’s not the same level of infatuation and instant intimacy. He also gets tired of “friendship” rather quickly. He seldomly reciprocated to any invites coming from male friends, unless it’s his foo, or he was antsy that day.

To be clear... .is this his description of his thought process and how he views male and female attention?

Or is is your opinion based on your knowledge of him?

Again for clarity... .does he reciprocate invites from females friends and not male friends?  (that line peeked my interest... .and seems very relevant)

FF

[formflier]

Not completely, but it’s not the same level of infatuation and instant intimacy. He also gets tired of “friendship” rather quickly. He seldomly reciprocated to any invites coming from male friends, unless it’s his foo, or he was antsy that day.

To be clear... .is this his description of his thought process and how he views male and female attention?

Or is is your opinion based on your knowledge of him?

Again for clarity... .does he reciprocate invites from females friends and not male friends?  (that line peeked my interest... .and seems very relevant)

FF

[snowglobe]

To be clear... .is this his description of his thought process and how he views male and female attention?

Or is is your opinion based on your knowledge of him?

Again for clarity... .does he reciprocate invites from females friends and not male friends?  (that line peeked my interest... .and seems very relevant)

FF

He doesn’t respond to male attention in the same way he does to female, from my observation. He entered into manic state, I posted another topic, @formflier, if you can, please advise.

[formflier]

I will check out the other topic. 

Does he accept female invites in a different way that may invites? 

Or... .do females not invio him out for things?

FF

[snowglobe]

I will check out the other topic. 

Does he accept female invites in a different way that may invites? 

Or... .do females not invio him out for things?

FF

He doesn’t have females in his life other then our mutual friends, so there aren’t too many invites coming his way. Regarding male interaction, as well as female, as long as the other party is validating and constantly praising and fostering him, he maintains the relationships. Once the other party is having a difference in political option for instance, or doubts his exaggerated and inflated ego or achievements, they are immediately discarded and labeled and stupid, incompetent and ignorant.

[formflier]

Snowglobe,

Good job working through a number of detailed questions that were likely unpleasant to work through...  

I'm going to reflect on the posts tonight... .and try to put together some thoughts for you to discuss with your T.  We do want to be careful and upfront since there is apparently a fairly new T situation... .that there are not competing advice sources... or that what you get from bpdfamily and your T are working at odds.

A good T and a forum like this should "compliment" each other... .

So...

Can you briefly describe what you T has said you guys will be working on or what areas she wants to understand better?

Can you describe some of the things that your husband does well... .things that you appreciate about him?

Hang in there... .stay big picture... .as you have said... the tools are working... time is getting close to dig into issues (without conflict) and see where you and the relationship can go!

FF

[snowglobe]

To clearify,
I’m working with T alone, uBPDh claims that I’m the one with a problem and should deal with it. He knows he has issues but doesn’t believe he needs help or intervention. Furthermore, him admitting to his symptoms indirectly means he will be “watched” and is risking to “loose his guns and ammo”, which is equivalent to loosing his testicles in his mind. By the way I was describing my situation, the T believes that my uBPDh is beyond any hope of recovery and she wants to focus on getting me “mentally fit”, aka working on codependentcy, self esteem, anxiety and fear. Yesterday, while concluding our session, she said similar to Margalis Fjelstad. I’m dealing with npd as well as npd. I’m extremly successful at surviving in difficult circumstances, but my uBPDh will never change or get better. This prognosis made me very anxious and depressed, to be honest. If there isn’t any hope, why keep on trying?. That’s why I’m turning here for advice and guidance. I hope it’s only one persons opinion.

[formflier]

 I’m extremly successful at surviving in difficult circumstances, but my uBPDh will never change or get better. This prognosis made me very anxious and depressed, to be honest.  

Are you sure you heard this correctly?  The part about him never changing or getting better.


Has your T examined, tested or even spent time with your hubby?

So... .the purpose of me going to T is to (please fill in the blank?

What has the T said about what you two will be working on?

other 2 questions are still hanging out there as well. (what has T said you will be working on?... .what does your hubby do well and that you appreciate him for?)

FF

[snowglobe]

Are you sure you heard this correctly?  The part about him never changing or getting better.


Has your T examined, tested or even spent time with your hubby?

So... .the purpose of me going to T is to (please fill in the blank?

What has the T said about what you two will be working on?

other 2 questions are still hanging out there as well. (what has T said you will be working on?... .what does your hubby do well and that you appreciate him for?)

FF

She hasn’t met him, nor did she test him. Based on the dynamics I described she “suspects” not only BPD but npd. From her 20+ practice as a psychotherapist she has never seen a miraculous recovery, when pressed by me in her prognosis. Years of work, investment and a desire are fundamental in his recovery and healing himself and helping us to function as a unit.
The purpose of me seeking help is that I’m exhibiting symptoms of anxiety and depression. They are caused by socioeconomic factors, my son’s disability and my uBPDh’s mental illness. She doesn’t recommend me leaving these relationships for now. She is cautiously trying to explain that living this way is detrimental to my self esteem and personal development. It’s very early in the treatment plan, we tackle one issue per session. She is working on my unresolved dynamics that caused me to adapt caregiver’s role as a surviving mechanism. She also says that once I start detaching from these relationships and heal within, new possibilities will open. Something that I’m fearful of and adamant about not going through ( I read separation and divorce) otherwise she sees no role or involvement working with the current situation. I’m not sure if I will stick with T long term, I kind of want to wait and see. Unfortunately, the BPD stigma is living to its reputation.

To answer your question- she is working on my dynamics and schema learnt from foo, self esteem that came from care taking, codependency, fear of unknown, inflexible and fearful pattern of thinking

[snowglobe]

What I like about him- honest recap:
Today I struggle to see beyond my children’s livelihood depending on him.
On the good days he was a good lover, good listener, problem solver, very handsome and intelligent man, his actions always spoke volume. No price was too high when it came to his children’s well being. His can be generous and kind, on occasion. He has a wicked sense of humour and infectious excitement about life. On the “up” days I can’t believe I hit this Jackpot. He is also a good provider, I have been finically taker care of for the past 11 years. I genuinely love him, and still hold some hope for our future. Thank you, FormFlier for reminding me of that 

[formflier]

She hasn’t met him, nor did she test him. Based on the dynamics I described she “suspects” not only BPD but npd. From her 20+ practice as a psychotherapist she has never seen a miraculous recovery, when pressed by me in her prognosis. Years of work, investment and a desire are fundamental in his recovery and healing himself and helping us to function as a unit.
 

OK... .that's about what I thought.

She is talking in general terms.

However... .I would encourage you to clarify this at the top of the next appointment.

Here is the thing... .if she really is making a professional judgment that it is hopeless... he won't ever get better... .you need to understand that.  (I really don't believe she intends you to understand that message)

I believe that when pressed by you... .she indicated and you heard that this is a big challenge (which it is).

I would also encourage you two to discuss appropriateness of making further judgments or speculation about people not involved in therapy with her.  (for clarity... .I give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't intend to do this... .I believe the intended to give you a broad overview of what you are up against)

Said another way... .I doubt she ever intended for you to say to others "my therapist's professional judgment is my husband is unable to or will never change"

It is likely a good place in therapy to discuss what she said/intended and what you heard and how you are using what you heard.

In other words... .I would doubt this communication style/choice is unique to this one conversation... .but something that could be addressed by learning new skills in therapy.

   

FF

[formflier]

What I like about him- honest recap:
Today I struggle to see beyond my children’s livelihood depending on him.
On the good days he was a good lover, good listener, problem solver, very handsome and intelligent man, his actions always spoke volume. No price was too high when it came to his children’s well being. His can be generous and kind, on occasion. He has a wicked sense of humour and infectious excitement about life. On the “up” days I can’t believe I hit this Jackpot. He is also a good provider, I have been finically taker care of for the past 11 years. I genuinely love him, and still hold some hope for our future. Thank you, FormFlier for reminding me of that 

I would encourage you to print this and take this with you to therapy.

I'll also make some further comments... .likely tomorrow after I reflect on all this a while.

I commend you for taking the step to work with a therapist.  My current T relationship is over two years old now and my life and relationships are so much better.  In my case, my wife spent enough joint and individual time with my psychologist that the P was able to understand "how my wife works"... and advise me about specifics.

   

FF

[snowglobe]

I would encourage you to print this and take this with you to therapy.

I'll also make some further comments... .likely tomorrow after I reflect on all this a while.

I commend you for taking the step to work with a therapist.  My current T relationship is over two years old now and my life and relationships are so much better.  In my case, my wife spent enough joint and individual time with my psychologist that the P was able to understand "how my wife works"... and advise me about specifics.

   

FF

She cautions and discourages me from talking about “him”, as she is working on my unresolved issues. Yet, I can’t stop talking about our relationships, dynamics and struggles, it’s on the forefront of my mind. To be specific- you gave me a specific communication tool, walk away when you are being ranted on, set boundaries, initiate contact in non confrontational manner. Clear simple comprehensive. Most importantly, it works, from Early December to now its leaps and bounds on how far he’s gone in verbal association. I need more practical tools for bettering, improving and healing.

[formflier]

She cautions and discourages me from talking about “him”, as she is working on my unresolved issues. Yet, I can’t stop talking about our relationships, dynamics and struggles, it’s on the forefront of my mind. To be specific- you gave me a specific communication tool, walk away when you are being ranted on, set boundaries, initiate contact in non confrontational manner. Clear simple comprehensive. Most importantly, it works, from Early December to now its leaps and bounds on how far he’s gone in verbal association. I need more practical tools for bettering, improving and healing.

How many sessions have you had so far?

Do you like your T... feel like it's a good fit? 

Is this your first time ever working with a T?

So... .I think you are in a good place.  You are hungry for more... .you've tried some tools and (as predicted)... .they worked.

Did you ask your hubby's permission?  Did you need his cooperation?

It's important you realize that... and are clear... .crystal clear about the above two questions.  Please answer them directly in your response to this post.

I get it you want more of that.  My guess is you T will help you roll play some... .will give you more tools.  Hmm... how do I say this.  That's the "easy" part of therapy... .or I should say "easier"

What's the hard part?

For instance... "When presented with a situation, why do I NOT choose the most parsimonious explanation, especially if it has to do with motivations of someone else"

To figure that out... .there will be lots of layers... .lots of sorting out what is a fact... .and what is an interpretation... and why did I "interpret" something a certain way.


FF

[snowglobe]

How many sessions have you had so far?

Do you like your T... feel like it's a good fit? 

Is this your first time ever working with a T?

So... .I think you are in a good place.  You are hungry for more... .you've tried some tools and (as predicted)... .they worked.

Did you ask your hubby's permission?  Did you need his cooperation?

It's important you realize that... and are clear... .crystal clear about the above two questions.  Please answer them directly in your response to this post.

I get it you want more of that.  My guess is you T will help you roll play some... .will give you more tools.  Hmm... how do I say this.  That's the "easy" part of therapy... .or I should say "easier"

What's the hard part?

For instance... "When presented with a situation, why do I NOT choose the most parsimonious explanation, especially if it has to do with motivations of someone else"

To figure that out... .there will be lots of layers... .lots of sorting out what is a fact... .and what is an interpretation... and why did I "interpret" something a certain way.


FF

I’ve completed 3 weeks, twice a week an hour sessions. My initial consult was 2 hrs, during which the T told me that because she is working with me alone, she wants to solemnly focus on My issues (fair enough).
I am not sure if she is helpful. Yes, I like her, but her no nonsense approach, about me not being able to change the situation throws me off balance. If he is npd and BPD, as she suspects, there isn’t anything that I can do, I’m only wasting my time being with him. He is a mentally ill person, I have my own psychological issues stemming from being raised by BPD, in her opinion it’s like two addicts that are being together. Isn’t a good idea. On several occasions she voiced her concern for mine and my children’s safety with my uBPDh obsession with guns and zombies. Hits close to home, as he is refusing any kind of evaluation in fear of loosing his “toys” (why that is? I’m also registered user, and have no issue being assessed, I know I have no desire to hurt or kill anyone, what does he have to worry about?)
My husband doesn’t know that I work with a T, in my previous attempts to seek help, he cut my financial allowance, making it impossible to finance therapy, called me crazy, insulted daily, called me a traitor for sharing our struggles. Nor do I seek his permission, I know that this adaptation of his thinking is driving me insane.

[formflier]

 about me not being able to change the situation throws me off balance.

 If he is npd and BPD, as she suspects, there isn’t anything that I can do, I’m only wasting my time being with him.

 

I'm going to be frank.  I don't think she intended you to understand this as her message to you.

You have already seen that there is a lot that YOU can do... without your hubby's permission... to change the situation a great deal.  Right?

Yet... .there are limits... .you get to control you... .you don't get to control him.

You need guidance understanding those limits.  I think that is her point (but please clarify with her)

Again... .there are things you can do that will get results... .you have already seen that.  Right?

FF

[snowglobe]

I'm going to be frank.  I don't think she intended you to understand this as her message to you.

You have already seen that there is a lot that YOU can do... without your hubby's permission... to change the situation a great deal.  Right?

Yet... .there are limits... .you get to control you... .you don't get to control him.

You need guidance understanding those limits.  I think that is her point (but please clarify with her)

Again... .there are things you can do that will get results... .you have already seen that.  Right?

FF

I have seen the change and I do hold out hope for our future. @formflier, this crisis caught me off guard, I didnt even realize I’m in a midst of the eye of the storm till I received the feedback from you and other members here. What I thought, wasn’t accurate reflection of my own participation in this predicament. It happened, in part because of my own defiance and inability to accept his point of view. Yes, it’s bewildering, yet I don’t go about changing other people’s opinions, other then him. I want to quick fix and guarantee that this “crazy” will be over at some point. Yet, the work is all mine, and I don’t understand why I need to work on me, to change him. Some of the work is too painful to revisit, yet it’s the very base of the issues that I add the fuel to. He married me, all the while knowing everything, it was me insisting on having a second religious ceremony inside of his church. It’s my own disappointment with religion and faith not protecting our sacred marriage that I have to deal with.

[formflier]

  It’s my own disappointment with religion and faith not protecting our sacred marriage that I have to deal with.

I'm asking you to take a lot to T... .your T has probably explained that only so many things can "be on the plate" at one time.

So... .discuss and trust her to guide you... to help determine what issues can be put on hold while other issues are "dealt with". 

Especially if you think something should be dealt with right now... .and she is advising to wait... ask questions to understand why... .but... .I would trust her judgment as she helps guide you.

Ok... .whose responsibility is it to protect your marriage? 

I notice that you use the word "sacred"... .to describe your marriage... .yet profess to be agnostic.

Please... .don't hear judgment... .don't hear right or wrong from me.  Please do here that those concepts are unusual to be paired together.

I will be judgmental and say that it may be a while before you get to that in T... .that's likely several layers down as things get "peeled back"

Listen... .religion... .belief... .those are core things for any person.  So... .how we express those things to the world "says" stuff to the rest of the world about our core beliefs.

I'm not interested in changing you or putting you in some sort of mold.  I AM interested in that you understand your core belief(s) and that you understand how you will put those into action... or inaction.

There are many things I do and don't do in my life because of what I believe.  There have been times when I have acted against those beliefs and/or figured it wouldn't matter in this instance (for some reason)... .by and large I ended up very confused, feeling icky, mad, disappointed, hurt... .etc etc.

FF

[babyducks]

Snowglobe,

It takes a while to establish trust and build a relationship with a therapist.   a lot longer than three visits.   give it time.

she is working on my dynamics and schema learnt from foo, self esteem that came from care taking, codependency, fear of unknown, inflexible and fearful pattern of thinking

I think it's a very good idea to focus on you, to turn your creative energies into understanding you.  I would support and encourage you to continue looking at some of the things that were raised here.    For those of us who experienced trauma in our early lives, we tend to have a different reaction to trauma as adults.   Could that be tied into the fearful pattern of thinking?

She cautions and discourages me from talking about “him”, as she is working on my unresolved issues. Yet, I can’t stop talking about our relationships, dynamics and struggles, it’s on the forefront of my mind. To be specific- you gave me a specific communication tool, walk away when you are being ranted on, set boundaries, initiate contact in non confrontational manner. Clear simple comprehensive. Most importantly, it works, from Early December to now its leaps and bounds on how far he’s gone in verbal association. I need more practical tools for bettering, improving and healing.

Again I think this is a good approach, and while it may appear confusing I believe there is good reason she cautions you from talking about him and redirects you into your own issues.    As hard as it is to accept there is no quick fix and the no guarentee that the crazy may be over at some point.    The place to find long and lasting progress is within ourselves.

'ducks

[Cat Familiar]

Snowglobe,

I want to echo babyducks' message about taking time to trust and build a relationship with one's therapist. Also I agree with formflier that your T is probably speaking in generalities about BPD and NPD.

That said, personality disorders are unlikely to ever go away totally, but through working on ourselves, we can successfully and more likely, happily, manage living with someone with a PD.

Everyone brings baggage to a relationship and there's always "stuff" to deal with after the glow of the "honeymoon phase" has worn off. We've read these fairytale endings of "Happily Ever After" and then we're disappointed when we don't find this in our lives, but it's an ideal, not a certainty, and even if partners don't have PDs, there's still issues to deal with.

So much of your story resonates with me: I shared a business with my ex-husband; I had to keep a close eye on him or he'd take up with the nearest woman (It sounds like you're worried about that, but that you haven't experienced it so far with your husband); my ex was verbally abusive and criticized my appearance, my weight (even though I never was overweight)--he thought he should have someone who looked like a 14 year old runway model; my current husband can so easily be manipulated through praise and is quite undiscerning about others' motivations if they tell him how wonderful, smart, talented he is.

As you know, it's no picnic living with someone with a PD. However, other people have different burdens, such as living with someone with an autoimmune disease, limited mobility, etc. In those cases, there are "adaptive devices" or treatments that the healthy partner needs to assist with. BPD and NPD present the same situation. We need to adapt our communication to our loved ones in such a way that they feel understood and nurtured.

Accepting this was really frustrating and difficult for me. Why can't I just speak my mind and say what I need to say, like I was communicating with a "normal person"? It took a long time for me to get over the anger and resentment about this, particularly since I had so much baggage from living with BPD individuals since birth.

But when I did, much like how you've discovered that there's less conflict in trying new ways, suddenly my life became so much simpler. In some ways, it's less "intimate" than it was, but I was comparing how it was at the idealization stage in the beginning, when he was mirroring me and basically I fell in love with "me" looking back at myself.

Now I don't "set him off" nearly as much as I once did and when he starts dysregulating, I can "reel him in" and quiet him down. I'm not a parent, but I imagine the strategy isn't too different from dealing with an upset toddler. In my case, I do the same thing with my horses.

Anyway, I hope you give therapy time to help. Yes, it's "unfair" that you are working on your issues when his issues impact you and the children, but you are the only one you have full control over, so it makes sense that being able to change your behavior will change the dynamic in your relationship.

   
Cat

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe,

I want to echo babyducks' message about taking time to trust and build a relationship with one's therapist. Also I agree with formflier that your T is probably speaking in generalities about BPD and NPD.

That said, personality disorders are unlikely to ever go away totally, but through working on ourselves, we can successfully and more likely, happily, manage living with someone with a PD.

Everyone brings baggage to a relationship and there's always "stuff" to deal with after the glow of the "honeymoon phase" has worn off. We've read these fairytale endings of "Happily Ever After" and then we're disappointed when we don't find this in our lives, but it's an ideal, not a certainty, and even if partners don't have PDs, there's still issues to deal with.

So much of your story resonates with me: I shared a business with my ex-husband; I had to keep a close eye on him or he'd take up with the nearest woman (It sounds like you're worried about that, but that you haven't experienced it so far with your husband); my ex was verbally abusive and criticized my appearance, my weight (even though I never was overweight)--he thought he should have someone who looked like a 14 year old runway model; my current husband can so easily be manipulated through praise and is quite undiscerning about others' motivations if they tell him how wonderful, smart, talented he is.

As you know, it's no picnic living with someone with a PD. However, other people have different burdens, such as living with someone with an autoimmune disease, limited mobility, etc. In those cases, there are "adaptive devices" or treatments that the healthy partner needs to assist with. BPD and NPD present the same situation. We need to adapt our communication to our loved ones in such a way that they feel understood and nurtured.

Accepting this was really frustrating and difficult for me. Why can't I just speak my mind and say what I need to say, like I was communicating with a "normal person"? It took a long time for me to get over the anger and resentment about this, particularly since I had so much baggage from living with BPD individuals since birth.

But when I did, much like how you've discovered that there's less conflict in trying new ways, suddenly my life became so much simpler. In some ways, it's less "intimate" than it was, but I was comparing how it was at the idealization stage in the beginning, when he was mirroring me and basically I fell in love with "me" looking back at myself.

Now I don't "set him off" nearly as much as I once did and when he starts dysregulating, I can "reel him in" and quiet him down. I'm not a parent, but I imagine the strategy isn't too different from dealing with an upset toddler. In my case, I do the same thing with my horses.

Anyway, I hope you give therapy time to help. Yes, it's "unfair" that you are working on your issues when his issues impact you and the children, but you are the only one you have full control over, so it makes sense that being able to change your behavior will change the dynamic in your relationship.

   
Cat

@Catfamiliar,
Thank you for sharing your experience living with someone who has both, BPD and np, what I see in people in plain sight takes years and unfortunate exploitation of him to see it, it’s a long process of me sitting there and watching him soak all the attention and praise only to be taken advantage of. Even then, disappointed he doesn’t admit that he was wrong.
With limited access to funds and resources I wish I could spend more time working on our issues. Instead all I can manage is seek help for myself. I couldn’t take another morning full of misery and hurt feelings, so I forced myself to run some errands with my d14

[babyducks]

I couldn’t take another morning full of misery and hurt feelings, so I forced myself to run some errands with my d14

 

Good decision Snowglobe.     Every time you detach a little tiny bit from the hurt feelings, you make room for other feelings to come in.

[snowglobe]

It was an interesting experience which I’m not able to interpret, so if you have any ideas, please, throw them my way. While running the errands, I realized that the fact that we have missed a house party/bday celebration that our mutual acquaintance through on Saturday, didn’t look good on me. We’ve missed it because he 1.wanted to go to church, 2. Finds them dull and uninteresting (there is no drama there, nor much flattery). I bought her a gift card and swang by her house to drop it off. The whole thing took maybe 40-50 min, during which my d14 chose to stay in the car waiting for me. When I came back she told me that grandma (no surprise there, my mom is noisy) and dad! Called and wanted to know where we were. She told the truth. As I started to drive home uBPDh called d14’s cell asking where we are, she repeated and said we were going home. He sounded annoyed, asked why I wasted 2 hrs there (his time always runs at the speed of Light), to which I gave him the time and the way my events unfolded. He replied “I don’t believe you l” and hung up before we could interject. With a puzzled look on her face, d14 asked me “how come dad always calls you annoyed when/if you are out and starts repremending you. It’s as if he thinks your life is so exciting”. When I later came home, and started to repeat my story, he said “I know how long and where you stayed”, he tracks my where abouts on phone finder that shares the location on all our phones. It’s a trust and security level for him, it doesn’t annoy me anymore, nor do I pay much attention. If he needs to check my boring life in order to reassure himself that I’m not cheating (that is what underlying fear I believe is), or just see that I’m running between grocery store and kids extracurricular, so be it. It’s also very clear to me that any time spent away from him, is the time he considers waisted and wants to “punish me” for that. This thought bothers me. If he wants exclusive rights on my time and attention, he ought to be nice to me.
@babyducks and @formflier, if you looked at a bigger picture, how can I use this knowledge for behaviour modification?

[formflier]

 
@babyducks and @formflier, if you looked at a bigger picture, how can I use this knowledge for behaviour modification?

Ugg... .

"Oh my goodness... .I don't consider my time a waste.  I busy at the moment, perhaps we can talk more later."  (nothing further... .while you are with your daughter)

I would find a friend or someone that understands your phone and (at some point) take back your privacy.  This was a big deal in my r/s (my wife access to my personal and professional communications)... .so I would suggest you discuss this with your T before taking action.

Once you take it back... .don't cave in.  So it's important you are ready.

Last:  You felt the need to justify yourself to your hubby because?  (explain the timeline)

Note:  This kind of thing can be handled positively and proactively (sometimes) as you leave or before you leave.  Too soothe their abandonment fears.

FF

[snowglobe]

Ugg... .

"Oh my goodness... .I don't consider my time a waste.  I busy at the moment, perhaps we can talk more later."  (nothing further... .while you are with your daughter)

I would find a friend or someone that understands your phone and (at some point) take back your privacy.  This was a big deal in my r/s (my wife access to my personal and professional communications)... .so I would suggest you discuss this with your T before taking action.

Once you take it back... .don't cave in.  So it's important you are ready.

Last:  You felt the need to justify yourself to your hubby because?  (explain the timeline)

Note:  This kind of thing can be handled positively and proactively (sometimes) as you leave or before you leave.  Too soothe their abandonment fears.

FF

I felt that I needed to justify my whereabouts because our relationships are in a very bad place emotionally and factually. I don’t want to Aggravate his fears furthermore, so he doesn’t come swinging at me with the full force that he is capable of. For now it’s a steady 5 out of 10 rejection mostly, some belittling and banal disregard for my feelings. If I leave and go somewhere, such as a friend, my elderly grandma, shopping mall, pretty much anywhere it creates abandonment and resentment, because it the “time you could have spent with me” he creates an emotionally toxic environment not just for me, but also for the children. 

[formflier]

I felt that I needed to justify my whereabouts because our relationships are in a very bad place emotionally and factually. I don’t want to Aggravate his fears furthermore, so he doesn’t come swinging at me with the full force that he is capable of.  

What do we teach about JADE?

What do we teach about making decisions out of fear?

The real focus should be answering his "bellicose" statement (although honestly it wasn't that bad... comparatively) that you were wasting your time.  

Listen... there was nothing wrong with what you were doing, yet that is what YOU kept the focus on.  There WAS something wrong with his insults, yet those were "passed over" or not dealt with in any way.

Back up... .look at big picture.

He insults you and you justify yourself and try to "prove" that you shouldn't have been insulted.

I suspect that pattern has been there for a while.

Wouldn't it be healthier for you and a better expression of your values... ."I can't continue a conversation while insults are between us.  Perhaps we can talk kindly after I get home."

And think about the lessons you would have "taught" your daughter had she heard that from you!

FF

[snowglobe]

@formflier, what do we teach about making decisions out of fear?
90% of my decisions are fast and out of fear.

[formflier]

@formflier, what do we teach about making decisions out of fear?
90% of my decisions are fast and out of fear.

Anytime you are making decisions out of FOG  "Fear Obligation Guilt" it is very likely that decision is not helping or making healthier a relationship.

When you see things on this board about "getting out of the FOG"... that is what is being talked about.

Making decisions so something "won't" happen is usually not helpful, because you are usually trying to control someone else.  Making a decision about what you will do is usually helpful, especially if you "think it through" and make a decision based on your values (not your fears)... .and you have the resolve to let the rest of the world "deal with your decisions".

   

FF

[Enabler]

Small interlude - - - - the iphone app he most likely uses to track you is 'Find IPhone' (looks like a radar, green circle white background. All you have to do is go into the app and click sign out in the top right. I wouldn't recommend signing in and out of this, but sign out and leave it at that. Or, better still get your own Itunes account. 'Find Iphone' is perfect for just that and enables you to wipe/disable your phone remotely if lost.

My guess is you already know this and don't do it out of fear of his reaction though.

[snowglobe]

Small interlude - - - - the iphone app he most likely uses to track you is 'Find IPhone' (looks like a radar, green circle white background. All you have to do is go into the app and click sign out in the top right. I wouldn't recommend signing in and out of this, but sign out and leave it at that. Or, better still get your own Itunes account. 'Find Iphone' is perfect for just that and enables you to wipe/disable your phone remotely if lost.

My guess is you already know this and don't do it out of fear of his reaction though.
Absolutely correct, I know that gps is in maps, phone finder and car app, if one fails, he has other two to assist him. In truth, if a person is going to these lengths to know my whereabouts all times, I can see the proportion of his anxiety and fear. It doesn’t actually stop me from going wherever I need to go, so in terms of it being an issue- sure it’s not healthy. We have so many greater problems to deal with, that my tracking is a small particle comparing to the rest of the mess. Using humour, I will never go missing or risk of being kidnaped, Big brother is constantly watching. I’m rereading “stop the bleeding part”, seems that “I’ll deal with this later” backfired and I have a full blown out episode on my hands. I also lacked the internal motivation to be the one to stop the bleeding, instead waiting for him to snap out of it. Big mistake

[formflier]

Lean on your T to figure out the best time to have the GPS discussion.

I am much more interested in him stopping insulting you... .than I am stopping him from "watching" you drive around town.

So... .perhaps something to work with T on is some roleplay on offering a compromise.

Trust him to take it or not. 

"You know babe... .I feel hurt when you watch me drive around town... .yet still insult me and accuse me.  I want you to feel confident our relationship and I want to free from the effects of insults and accusations.  I hope we can come together and figure out a way to do this that works for both of us."

FF