Just when i thought i had seen all sides

[lostandconfused6]

Well here we are again, as much as i didn't think it was possible my BPDbf has surprised me and done something new

We have had a relatively good week, this morning i texted him

Me:good morning i'm headed to work the weather is supposed to get bad today please keep that in mind when planning on what time you asre leaving for my house i love you

Him:whatever i'll kill myself to make sure i'm there at an acceptable time for you

Me: that wasn't necessary to say

Him: Don't text me again for the rest of the day or the weather might just get to bad for me to come  at all tonight... .think about that before you respond not a quip it's a fact

i said nothing for over 2 hours i get a text

Him: i love you please be careful... .*sent a pic of a person at wal mart*

10 mintues goes by i get another text

Himk i tried i hope youre ok

Me: i didn't have my phone with me i was in another office i love you too

Him:i hope the weather gets worse

Me: why would you say that?

Him:i would love to die this evening and don't respond to that i don't want to hear what you have to say about it

Me:why are you being like this today? there is no reason for it and all you've done this morning is be mean to me

Him:i'm not starting that's why i'm preventing you from giving your opinon so don't or i'll stay home... .test me

Me:there is no reason for you to say those things or threaten me please stop i love you

Him: i know exactly what i'm doing shutting you up so you don't piss me off so don't i love you too

Me: you are in a mood already and when we talked the other day you said you wouldn't speak to me like that so please don't it isn't needed

Him: i'm fine i know how to deal with awful people like you don't text me again or i won't be coming tonight... .test me little girl i warn you... .i won't speak to you like this if you shut the f*ck up... .take a hint


and now i'm sitting in my office at working crying and writing this because i don't understand, he has done similar things in the past but it has always been when i have brought up something he doesn't like or a trigger of some sort... .he has never done it just for control (i guess that's what it is) i do cry a lot over things he does to me but in general i have developed a thicker skin and try to tell my self feelings are not facts and i know i'm not to blame... .but this really hurt me... .i can genuinely say i did nothing to deserve this... .why can't he see that talking to me like that isn't how to "deal with me" and it just makes things worse. Does anyone have any ideas on how i can get that across to him? We talked about it a few days ago and he agreed he would take a nicer approach with me but then like clock work he doesn't try it and resorts to manipulating and verbally abusing me... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lady Itone]

Wow. You're not wrong, that is a very abusive and manipulative man. Sorry you had to endure that.

Are you still considering seeing him tonight? Personally, I wouldn't. There needs to be consequences to him being an a-hole.

[CautiousHope]

Hi Lostandconfused, I can certainly understand why you'd be upset, that's a pretty terrible way to be spoken to and I think it's perfectly natural to feel hurt and frustrated. He is being quite mean. I think it's especially difficult to handle when it feels like it has come out of left field, but also I feel it's a good opportunity to remember that we are not to blame for the mood swings that come with BPD. Though we are often the ones to trigger our pwBPD, it's not our "fault," and sometimes we are going to be subjected to mood swings that have nothing to do with us, though they are directed at us as though it is something we've done.

It's so strange to read conversations like this, because it sounds so much like my pwBPD when he is anxious. If you told me that your bf was the same guy, I would believe it, because the tone and choice of words are so similar in a lot of regards. One thing I've learned is that when my pwBPD is acting in this passive-aggressive or sarcastic way, it's because he's scared. For him, using passive aggression or sarcasm to cope with anxiety is easy to fall back on out of habit when he is stressed or feeling nervous or negative in just about any way. Much of the time, it will slowly snowball into an abandonment panic-type meltdown, even over things that have nothing to do with me, because all anxiety translates to that in his mind. Is your s/o under any new outside stress?


I would also like to break down your conversation as if it were me having it with my pwBPD.

Me:good morning i'm headed to work the weather is supposed to get bad today please keep that in mind when planning on what time you asre leaving for my house i love you

Him:whatever i'll kill myself to make sure i'm there at an acceptable time for you

 Personally, I would reply to this with a simple "Hey, you seem stressed, is everything okay?"

Him: Don't text me again for the rest of the day or the weather might just get to bad for me to come  at all tonight... .think about that before you respond not a quip it's a fact

i said nothing for over 2 hours i get a text

Here, I would say "Okay, if you need a little space I can respect that, I'll have my phone by me if you change your mind and would like to talk." and give space. When my pwBPD gets this way, essentially, it feels like he's telling me to buzz off - but what is actually happening is that he knows he's irritated and he doesn't want to lash out. Lashing out or escalating to full blown anger makes him feel ashamed and also it worries him that I will leave him if he behaves badly, which perpetuates the whole cycle. So, he will "warn" me like this and take some space to give himself time to cool down. So, I give it to him, but I also say/do something to reassure him that I will be here when he cools down and also that it is his choice to put the space there -not mine, otherwise it can quickly escalate into him believing that I am abandoning him or that I'm the one who wants space from him. In fact, he will often be the one to tell me to back off or he will initiate space -and then tell me he's doing it because I want space, even though I never say anything like that to him.

Him: i love you please be careful... .*sent a pic of a person at wal mart*

10 mintues goes by i get another text

Himk i tried i hope youre ok

Here, it looks like the abandonment fear is kicking in. He had a mood swing and pulled away, you did not pursue him or respond immediately once his mood had started to shift, so now the panic is starting. In my case, I would believe that the attempt to "make amends" from my pwBPD is and/or was sincere in the moment. He really did want to let the crankiness pass, but with the abandonment anxiety growing, the ability to hold onto that is pretty weak.

Me: i didn't have my phone with me i was in another office i love you too (I would have replied in similar way - but also I would have added that I was looking forward to seeing him later - assuming that's true. Here's why: in my case, I know that my pwBPD would be very anxious that after his grouchy morning, I wouldn't want to see him anymore. Maybe ever. So, adding that little detail can be enough to quiet that anxiety and head us back to base.)

Him:i hope the weather gets worse

Me: why would you say that?

Him:i would love to die this evening and don't respond to that i don't want to hear what you have to say about it


Me:why are you being like this today? there is no reason for it and all you've done this morning is be mean to me

Him:i'm not starting that's why i'm preventing you from giving your opinon so don't or i'll stay home... .test me

Here, I notice he is really getting upset. "I would love to die." That's a pretty powerful statement to make and it says to me he is feeling something in the realm of hopelessness. It's easy to see how the tone of this conversation feels directed at you "I don't want to hear what you have to say" is a harsh and dismissive and hurtful thing to be told. When you read it from the perspective of someone who is feeling hopeless, however, it becomes a bit less of a personal attack and more of a defensive statement. He fears that what you say next will continue to upset him further and he already feels hopeless, so more of the same might be too much to bear in his mind. Unfortunately, that turns out to be the case, as he sinks further into his anger and lashes out inappropriately.


It is such a challenge to deconstruct these conversations in the moment and to look at them from another angle, especially when we ourselves are on the receiving end of abusive or cruel messages with no apparent rhyme or reason. It's certainly unfair to have to put our own feelings aside in a situation where we are being mistreated, but I have found that temporarily suspending my reaction to his passive-aggressiveness has given us room to work through it and come around in a much healthier way and the space between outbursts of this nature seems to grow more every time. I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope that this is helpful in some way, I know it's exhausting to feel like you're under attack for no reason and like you don't know what to say or do next.

[Calmcollected]

This post was really helpful. I’ve been going through the same thing. I’ve slowly been learning how to step back and deconstruct the real meaning behind the words. My best advice and action I’ve been following myself is the knee jerk emotional action to respond immediately. I’ve started typing, then delete it if I’m responding with my own emotions. I take a deep breath and look at his emotions that are behind the words, because the words are not “real” if that makes sense? It’s super easy when texting to use the principles of SET. You can take your time and compose a response that follows those guidelines. Now that I’ve been making a habit of it with text, it’s like a practice run for in person and I find it easier to use in one on one conversation. It has helped decrease these episodes for me as well.

[ClingToHope]

.

It's so strange to read conversations like this, because it sounds so much like my pwBPD when he is anxious. If you told me that your bf was the same guy, I would believe it, because the tone and choice of words are so similar in a lot of regards. One thing I've learned is that when my pwBPD is acting in this passive-aggressive or sarcastic way, it's because he's scared. For him, using passive aggression or sarcasm to cope with anxiety is easy to fall back on out of habit when he is stressed or feeling nervous or negative in just about any way. Much of the time, it will slowly snowball into an abandonment panic-type meltdown, even over things that have nothing to do with me, because all anxiety translates to that in his mind. Is your s/o under any new outside stress

I was thinking the same thing. I could have had these same statements thrown at me from my uBPDh

And I agree it’s coming from anxiety ect and tho you may not have triggered it an outside event may have and of course they direct it to us usually.

Sending strength.
CTH

[lostandconfused6]

Thank you all for your responses... .unfortunately it continued

a couple hours had gone by and i said
ME: the power is out at my work

Him:i'm going to the gym tornadoes and all, but don't worry i'll be over later gotta keep my girl happy

ME: can you please stop i don't understand where this is coming from

Him: well i hope i die on the way to your house you don't care as long as you get what you want no response i don't want to hear what you think like last time you're going to get what you want

Me:that isn;t true never once was i implying you needed to drive in the rain i was saying you may want to consider leaving later you assume the worst and snap at me it will be over by 6 or 7 i wasn;t trying to rush you

Him:shut the ___ up you selfish bitch just don't talk maybe if you're lucky my family will die then all i have is you

Me stop it please

Him: like i said another word and i'm staying home f*ck you i don't like you this is what you deserve

i said nothing then 4 hours later he says

Him the roads in my neighborhood are flooded i might be a little late

Me today scared me i don't understand what happened

Him you should be scared i'm not fighting with you and if you ask me 1 more question about why i did this i am breaking up with you for good

a hour and a half later he called me... .completely normal like nothing ever happened at all... .well i brought it up and he said it's about balance i don't want to be mean to your face so i do it over text... .look how i'm acting now everything is fine... .

excuse me but What the heck... .we had a relatively good evening sat night and day yesterday went to the movies sat night mostly so i could avoid any extra conversation plus it was a comedy he had been wanting to see so i figured it would help with his mood... .i was emotionally drained and couldn't handle anymore fights or verbal abuse that day... .and eventually the truth came out about his reason for snapping at me as soon as he woke up sat morning his parents started with him... .and he didn't want to tell me because i would be "right" again and lord knows that isn't allowed (not sure if any of you follow my other threads but his parents are a HUGE problem)

lady itone... .it's so hard for me to take the little bit of time i get with him away, i fear what will happen if i ever do

cautious hope... .thank you so much for taking the time to do that... .i am saving that break down and reading it over and over and hopefully next time this happens i will be more prepared

loismay: you are very right about SET being easier through text, unfortunately no matter how perfectly i do it at time he still finds a way to take it incorrectly or assume something else

clingtohope... .i actually use my notes app in my phones a lot and write things out but don;t send them... .it helps so much and if i am actually texting him i will type something and retype it 100 times to try to get it as perfect as i can

[isilme]

Lost,

Hi - this is a horrible excahnge.  I've had similar ones myself.  I missed some messages one morning from being away from my desk in a room with no cell signal, and by the time I got back he was fully off the rails, ranting about how I disrespected him by ignoring him, and when I explained I hadn't even known he was messaging me, it was "convenient". 

A few things others may not have mentioned yet, now that you've gotten a little more, let's call it "rational" feedback from him:

1 - my husband freaks out in bad weather.  Especially if one or the other of us is going to be driving.  He will cancel a whole planned weekend over a 30-minute thunderstorm because for him feelings = facts.  It's raining and thundering now, therefore it will ALWAYS be raining and thundering, it will NEVER be safe to drive.  When Harvey was forecast right for us, he was a mess.  Where we live it's a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Storms shift north or south on a dime, and the only direction to actually get clear is west, but traffic, lack of lodging, and gas shortages make evacuating stupid half the time - you're just as likely to get stalled in traffic and run out of gas heading west as you are to take the direct Cat 5 hit.  So we chose to stay.  Fun times. 

2 - It's hard for ANYONE to grow to a point where they can realize Mom and Dad aren't always right.  It's even worse to realize they might actually be hurting you.  And it's even scarier to see they might love you in a weird way and still hurt you because they are broken.  My parents were obviously abusive.  I knew this from a pretty young age, but I still preferred them, the devils I knew, over being honest with teachers when questioned about bruises and crying outbursts in school.  I would have rather lived with the crazy that claimed unconditional love (even though it was a lie) than risk CPS or anything else. 

I was "lucky" in the fact I was forced into independence (even though my parents resented it at the same time, and LIKED me being dependent so they could control me - it was an emotional high for them I think, and both parents expected ME the child to fill the emotional supply gaps left by their disordered spouse).  But, by 15, I was pretty much autonomous, so when I was officially kicked out at 19, I was far better prepared for the world than you BF sounds to be at this time.  I hadn't had a mom taking care of me, even while she lived in the same house, since I was about 5-7 years old. 

It's very scary for him for you to be "right" because it means the very people we are all told love us and are there for us no matter what... .are really not good for him.  They are in the way of him being a man.  Being happy.  Growing up.  He finds comfort in the lie that they are there for him.  Stripping that away is a form of abandonment.

3 - Continuing a conversation - his emotions were a mess.  He needed to make YOU hurt so he could feel better.  You don't need to accept that.  "Weather's going to be bad - stay safe today, see you later if rain allows".

This is less -mom-ish than "good morning i'm headed to work the weather is supposed to get bad today please keep that in mind when planning on what time you asre leaving for my house i love you"

Once the dysregulation is evident, stop engaging.  Stop.  Tell him he is being mean, the conversation is not helping either of you, that you are turning off your phone/ending messaging/taking a break from communications until (give a time) so you can focus on work and staying safe in the bad weather.  If he is still too upset to have a rational conversation you will have to turn the phone back off.  Then do it.  No "I love yous" - this sounds like a lie to him at this time.  He is not feeling loveable and is telling you this.  No JADEing  - any of your attempts to reason with him and keep the conversation going just made it worse.  He was feeding off your emotions, the only way to stop that is to remove your emotions from him for a bit. 

This is very hard to do.  Giving a time is important.  He needs you to tell him when you will re-engage and for you to do it to test the waters to show you are not fully abandoning him, you are just not going to accept abuse via text when he's having a freak-out. This is one of the biggest boundaries.

We all have to work to accept WE cannot "FIX" their emotions.  We are usually (like this case) not even the trigger, we are the target.  He was mad at his parents.  he was mad you were right about his parents.  You send a text sounding like his mom (I totally bet she says you're trying to "replace her", setting yourself up as a prime target for him to vent on.  I do not doubt one bit his mom has PLENTY to say about you, prompting comments like "... .just don't talk maybe if you're lucky my family will die then all i have is you", so anything you say about her, true as it might be, just sounds like more of the same to him. 

Also, just abused on how his mom sounds and having a BPD mom myself, I totally can hear her playing the same game with him, "I hope I die today.  Then you can just go be happy with that little hussy, trying to steal my boy from me.  You don't love me and I'm your mother.  She's using you, she doesn't even love you, no one can love you but your mother... .blah blah blah."  It might be good for you to read "Understanding the Borderline Mother" https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Borderline-Mother-Unpredictable-Relationship-ebook/dp/B00BGMZ9CA.  After you've had some time reading it, you might pass it on to him.  Maybe.  He might just give it to her which it NOT a good idea.  But hwat I get from all of this is you ahve mutiple generations of BPD in one unhealthy house. 

Man, he needs out of her apron strings, and out of her house. 

Texts are kinda dicey with BPD as it is.  I stick to nonemotional texts.  Just facts.  Just "I am leaving at 5:30."  "I am going to the store."  Nothing cutesy, nothing gushy.  These can so easily be misread by a person with different emotional wiring, they are pretty much dangerous to use in my opinion. 

I hope today is shaping up better.

[lostandconfused6]

isilme... .your replies are always so appreciated! me being a mom is 1 of the reasons i am so "momish" its funny because my 10yo son is less work than my BPDbf i am so careful not to be to over baring with my son for the simple fact of what i see the outcomes to be... .i let him make mistakes and let him fix them himself so he is isn't reliant on anyone to do everything for him but he still knows mommy is there for him and i love him very much and we spend plenty of quality time together

with our convos it's like i stop myself then he draws me back in a couple hours later by being nice and then bam dysregulation all over again and i'm caught off guard all over again but it is something i am trying to work on i feel i took small steps this weekend and stopped myself a few times when i wanted to keep going... .baby steps i guess?

it's so hard to just sit back and watch the person you love and care about essentially self destruct and get into a deeper hole because he can't just stand up and cut the cord... .i have been very cautious lately of not bad mouthing his family and not making to many comments about the things they do to him... .i am just validating and tell him i understand why that is frustrating and how it can cause him stress or to be upset. it hurts my heart to see what his family does to him and also i know it hurts him to even realize a little bit that his family is 1 of the biggest things that has hurt him and pretty much held him back all these years... .

he doesn't let me see his phone often but a few times he has his mom has told him "leave her she surely can't stop you" "you don't need to listen to her crazy mouth just come home" he claims she thinks the world of me and knows how amazing i am but i think she says that just enough so he doesn't catch on that she really hates me and when she tells him bad things he will believe them more... .my mother would never tell me to walk out on my BPDbf (unless he was being extremely abusive) she would tell us to seperate to dif parts of the house cool down and figure it out later... .if my son was with a girl for years i would do anything i could to be close to her... .

he is being overly nice today even said he is considering getting on my phone plan    and this weekend he entertained rings and houses again... .i try so hard to just enjoy these good times but unfortunately they have been ripped away from me so often, not just small fights but him actually breaking up with me for a week, right after he says these things... .i am doing my best to not push what he says or get overly excited about it to him or throw it in his face... .so we will see how it goes... .

[Calmcollected]

Isilme,
When you wrote about a BPD mother, it hit home. But in my case it’s his 20 year old daughter and 34 year old son.  She tells him I’m psycho, I’m going to leave him and take everything he has (despite him having nothing to take). I can hear her saying those exact words to him. I’m dealing with multiple BPDs in one family. I refuse to engage anymore and I keep silent about them now. Something I didn’t before. They are constantly trying to get him to break up with me. His 34 year old son told numerous people he broke up his last marriage and two relationships by purposely causing fights between them and he was going to get rid of me too.
It’s exhausting and despite how much I love him, is it worth it to go through this for the rest of our lives. When I first met him, he told me his kids wouldn’t allow him to be happy.

[lostandconfused6]

loismay

somedays my BPDbf sees what his mom really is and other days she is the best thing ever, i'm sure that has a lot to do with BPD, he always says "i know she had good intentions" how in the world can someone intentionally not waking you up for school because they think you don't need to go be good intentions? i just wish he could set some boundary or have some kind of space from her to see "the real world" and that everything she has told him and taught him is BS and had some sort of hidden agenda behind it... .not sure if you had read my previous post but i am kept totally separate from his family, except birthday christmas and mother's day presents which are exchanged from us through him... .she will say hi occasionally when i am on the phone but that's it

[isilme]

Once you look at his mom (and yes, to some extent his dad) you can see how both are detrimental to him, but also you can apply some of the tools to them as well, when encouraging interactions with them.  With a partner with BPD, this is not quite the same in my experience, but as a child of 2 people with BPD, I feel I was more a thing, an object owned by them, there to grant them joy, contentment, whatever they needed at the moment, and to be a whipping girl (literally) for when they were mad, angry, or ashamed. 

This can likely go the other way, from children back towards the parents if the children feel they own the parent in question.  I'd want to ask about any BPD influence in the family, as very rarely does this crop up in a vacuum.  It doesn't mean all children with BPD were abused, or have full on BPD parents, but the nature/nurture relationship has to be considered to understand the "brand" of BPD you are dealing with. 

People who act disordered often learned from at least one person in their life that this sort of behavior works well enough to keep doing it. 

She is likely used to getting pretty unconditional love from her son, while manipulating him to get what she wants.  If he balks, he doesn't love mommy, it must be that mean girlfriend trying to get him to abandon mommy.  So, if he fails school for not making it to class (because he doesn't' know how to use an alarm clock at 35 years old ) then he can't move on in life, he is a perpetual child to fulfill her needs (it sounds like her husband is kinda distant and self-absorbed based on the small amounts he's been mentioned?) and yes, as gross as this is going to sound, he likely acts as an emotional stand-in for his dad if that is the case.  My mom wanted me to be her BFF, my dad confided in me as if I was his wife.  It was a horrible TMI situation to be in as a child.    And I never even had words for it till I found this site. 

I still say read the Borderline mother types, and see which one fits your BF's mom.  It can help you helping him deal with her and maybe unenmesh. 

[Calmcollected]

Isilme,
That’s where we’re at now. I rarely go to his house. He’s afraid of what his son and daughter will say, although I haven’t asked, but from bits and pieces he’s let out, I think the relationship with his son is rocky. They went for a 4 year period and a 1 1/2 year period of not speaking. He’s a terrible person, in trouble with the law and a drug dealer. Two of his children love me, so it shows I’m not the problem. We are about to purchase a place together. I’m finalizing a divorce after 4 years of separation. His is up for sale. I know he hasn’t told them of our plans. He always says “let things settle” I know poop will hit the fan when they find out. Most likely he will wait until it’s happening to tell them. Our relationship has been wonderful since they have been out of our lives. Sad, but true. I tried really hard with both of them, but the look of hate on her face every time she saw me said it all. When she would be coming over, if we were on the couch together, he would jump up and go to another couch or physically push me away. His niece told me how horrible she would be to his girlfriends and it was out of control. When she was a tween, she assaulted one of his girlfriends. I do love this man more than any other I have before. When it’s great, it’s really wonderful and the disregulation has gone down immensely once I figured out what it was. I thought I was just dealing with PTSD from losing two of his kids in a fire. Now that I have found these boards, the difference is noticeable.
His daughter for sure has an extreme case of BPD, rages constantly, drama, cut herself as a teenager, etc etc. Her mother is an alcoholic, pill popper and I suspect from my days working in mental health, a narcissist. She lived with her dad until 18, moved in with her cousin, but the last year moved in with her mother who I suspect of influencing her in her hate of me. I’m in for a terrible time, I know.
I think it’s best for all if we stay separated. I’m guessing with his son it won’t be hard as in his line of work, he could be going away for a long time. I’m dreading the move and explosion, but excited to be together. I know it won’t be easy.

[Radcliff]

Once the dysregulation is evident, stop engaging.  Stop.  Tell him he is being mean, the conversation is not helping either of you, that you are turning off your phone/ending messaging/taking a break from communications until (give a time) so you can focus on work and staying safe in the bad weather.  If he is still too upset to have a rational conversation you will have to turn the phone back off.  Then do it.  No "I love yous" - this sounds like a lie to him at this time.  He is not feeling loveable and is telling you this.  No JADEing  - any of your attempts to reason with him and keep the conversation going just made it worse.  He was feeding off your emotions, the only way to stop that is to remove your emotions from him for a bit. 

This is very hard to do.  Giving a time is important.  He needs you to tell him when you will re-engage and for you to do it to test the waters to show you are not fully abandoning him, you are just not going to accept abuse via text when he's having a freak-out. This is one of the biggest boundaries.

lostandconfused6, there's been a lot of great advice and insight on this thread.  There are so many facets to what goes on in our relationships with our pwBPD.  But when the stuff hits the fan, we need simple tools.  Habits that we can drill into our heads like a baseball pitcher reflexively throwing to first base when he sees the runner start to edge towards second. isilme's advice above is the gold nugget of this thread.  Print it out in secret ink that only you can see and tape it to the back of your phone!  It works.  It will save you so much stress and heartache.

WW

[lostandconfused6]

Isilme,

at first i thought his dad was the biggest issue and over time and the more i researched BPD the more it became painfully clear it was actually his mom... .i don't believe he was ever physically abused, and i think that has more to do with his size than anything if you looked at his parents you would think he was adopted , but i do firmly believe they look at him as an object. Sort of like we made you, now you owe us for the rest of our lives no matter what and we will make you feel like scum and worthless if you don't do what we need and want you too... .

i have seen the way him and his mother speak to each other and it's disturbing she will call him a worthless pathetic ahole and he will call her worse names than he calls me and it will continue for hours... .i hate to say this but his mother reminds me a lot of norma bates in some ways, and she almost comes off as trying to fill all roles in his life mom, friend, and girlfriend but it's all "the best for him"... .i agree with you 100% that he is the stand in for his dad... .his dad is a lazy drug abusing rude self centered unintelligent sad pathetic shell of a "man" and never wants to be near his mom unless she is buying him something or he needs money... .everything is his way or the highway... .broken home is an understatement for what he lives in and it breaks my heart because he does deserve more and deserves a fair shot at getting better and succeeding my biggest fear for him is if he stays to much longer he will be to far gone to help and his life will be wasted


 my friends are so sick of him saying things are "normal" because his parents told him they are that they want to give him a reality check and let him know that nothing he says or does is normal, of course they won't do it out of respect for me but they don't understand how someone can really think the way he does about certain things.

[lostandconfused6]

lostandconfused6, there's been a lot of great advice and insight on this thread.  There are so many facets to what goes on in our relationships with our pwBPD.  But when the stuff hits the fan, we need simple tools.  Habits that we can drill into our heads like a baseball pitcher reflexively throwing to first base when he sees the runner start to edge towards second. isilme's advice above is the gold nugget of this thread.  Print it out in secret ink that only you can see and tape it to the back of your phone!  It works.  It will save you so much stress and heartache.

WW

WW i agree this thread has been super helpful... .he is being overly nice yesterday and today... .i mentioned before i try to enjoy it while it's happening but it's hard for me not to be on ready all the time

i have everything isilme said pasted into notes on my phone

[Tattered Heart]

Looks like everyone chimed in some really great ideas on how to address this situation in the future. It's so hard to get out of responding when things start to spiral down so quickly. Is it possible to either pick up the phone and talk to him when texting seems to not be going well?

I'd like to break down the conversation and do a post-mortem on it. I do this with my conversations with my H so I can see things from his perspective but also so I can see my own blind spots.

Me:good morning i'm headed to work the weather is supposed to get bad today please keep that in mind when planning on what time you asre leaving for my house i love you
Him:whatever i'll kill myself to make sure i'm there at an acceptable time for you

The highlighted part could be seen as condescending. It could come across as controlling and talking down to him, which you can see in his response.

 Me: that wasn't necessary to say

More controlling. He is starting to ramp up. Perhaps a question here could help figure out what is going on. Something like “Sounds like you are upset. I’d like to understand what you are feeling right now. What’s going on?”

Himk i tried i hope youre ok

Me: i didn't have my phone with me i was in another office i love you too

Sounds like he knew he was acting inappropriately and was hoping to get a response from you. When you got back to your phone, could you instead respond to the pic instead of JADEing. “Oh that’s funny! Thanks for sending it to me. (Laugh face)”

Him:i hope the weather gets worse

Me: why would you say that?

It sounds like he is trying to tell you something. Again, a validating question might help. “Why are you hoping it gets worse?”

 Me:why are you being like this today? there is no reason for it and all you've done this morning is be mean to me  

Remember, it’s not about you. It’s about what he is feeling right now. He feels bad so he is unwilling and maybe even unable to think about your feelings. Address his emotions instead. Once he has calmed down then you can have the conversation about him being mean.


Him:i'm not starting that's why i'm preventing you from giving your opinion so don't or i'll stay home... .test me

Me: you are in a mood already and when we talked the other day you said you wouldn't speak to me like that so please don't it isn't needed

This could be seen as attacking, rejecting, and accusatory towards someone with BPD. I get that you are trying to remind him about someone he said the other day, but he is upset and his feelings=reality. Reality does not = what he agreed to the other day.

 Him: i'm fine i know how to deal with awful people like you don't text me again or i won't be coming tonight... .test me little girl i warn you... .i won't speak to you like this if you shut the ___ up... .take a hint

Good job not responding to this. He is starting to escalate and just removing yourself from the conversation was probably best at this point.

a couple hours had gone by and i said

Him: well i hope i die on the way to your house you don't care as long as you get what you want no response i don't want to hear what you think like last time you're going to get what you want

Me:that isn;t true never once was i implying you needed to drive in the rain i was saying you may want to consider leaving later you assume the worst and snap at me it will be over by 6 or 7 i wasn;t trying to rush you

JADEing. Trying to reason with someone being emotional just ends up getting you worked up. Again, validate his emotions before trying to talk reason or truth to him.

Him:shut the ___ up you selfish ___ just don't talk maybe if you're lucky my family will die then all i have is you

Me stop it please

Has asking him to stop in the past ever worked? Or is there something more you can do to remove yourself from having to listen to him talk to you this way?

Now that the fight is over, this would be a good time to use SET to talk about how his behavior affected you.
 

[lostandconfused6]

Thank you for the response tatteredheart! I always like hearing from you on my posts! You, WW, and isilme offer great advice! I also appreciate everyone else that takes the time to give me their point of view, advice, and share their struggles and successes!

It's so easy for me to look at things in retrospect and say what i should have done and realize the mistakes i made... .i am also going to copy and paste your response into the notes in my phone for quick reference when/if this is to happen again

if i try to talk to him on the phone when he is like this it goes south and basically he just says the stuff he's saying in text out loud

we have made small steps the last couple of days in communication... .he is being almost too nice and caring... .but fingers crossed it at least partially lasts... .he actually came to me a few minutes ago and said he would like to get off his adderall, this is a HUGE deal he takes an excessive amount just to function every day and with the bachelors in psych that i have (which isn't even touching the tip of all things psych) i know that stimulants can send someone with any personality  disorder into psychosis this has always been a hot button for him so i never pushed it to much but i am extremely happy that he is wanting to take this step... .fingers crossed again that it sticks and he takes steps to do it... .with everything he has going on and that he is faced with the more stuff he is in control of cutting out the better

[Calmcollected]

I just got the craziest message because he doesn’t like his picture posted on Facebook personally, but is ok business wise. The message I got this morning was “I asked you nicely a few times to stop posting pics of me... .last time and your going to be out of my life    I still can't trust you”
I had posted pictures of a contracting job we were doing and he was in it. I take photo credit for all photos.
Immediate reaction was to type madly away, then deleted and used SET. Diffused his emotions and an hour of craziness  instead of 3 days. Progress.

[Tattered Heart]

It's so easy for me to look at things in retrospect and say what i should have done and realize the mistakes i made... .i am also going to copy and paste your response into the notes in my phone for quick reference when/if this is to happen again

Absolutely understand that. Do you think you could put off the conversation so it doesn't have to happen by phone or text. Maybe say something like "It seems to me that you may be having a hard time today. It's important to me that I am able to listen to you and understand what's going on. Can we talk about this when I get home?"

[lostandconfused6]

We don't live together and i typically only see him 1 day a week for over night visit but i see him for a couple hours here and there during the week sometimes (he will come to my work) so it makes it tough to do that... .and when i say things like what you said i get mocked and told to quit with my psychobabble bull___ or he will say "you're the problem leave me alone" and 9 times out of 10 it won't have anything to do with me ... .using or not using the tools sometimes i get the same results and i;m stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[isilme]

loismay,

Way to go    Stopping our kneejerk reactions can go a long way to improving things.

Lostandconfused,

He's in a place where it HAS to be you causing the problems - please understand just because he throws the blame at you does not mean you have to "catch" it. 

There really seems to be a LOT of things contributing to his erratic behavior right now.  Adderall, his parents, a focus on school with no real end plan of action, a desire to grow up and move out from home but a fear of just that... .he's a mess inside.  And he can't process it like you can.  You are able to go over your feelings, look at them, see what you did and did not do and be pretty honest with yourself.  BPD is a roadblock to all of that, so he WILL dysregulate.  He WILL express these feelings in an unhealthy manner. 

Your biggest task right now is to find what tools work for you to insulate you from absorbing all the negative tossed your way.  It's not yours to accept or absorb.  He's throwing away his emotional trash, and you don't have to clean it up. 

And yes, you don't see him that much, but phone and text conversations are very poor tools for dealing with BPD.  Far too much can be misunderstood.  I'd second what Tattered said, and insist on face to face conversations.  And maybe that will make seeing each other more than a few times a week a priority.  "This is too important to talk about over the phone - let's have a real conversation - can you meet me for dinner?"  And yes, how tattered stated it works for tattered.  How I phrase things works for me.  Some of us can be more direct with our pwBPD, some of us are more passive - you know the relationship best. 

How would you try to tell him, "I don't think this is a good convo for the phone - can we meet?"  Toss us some suggestions of how you'd say it.

[lostandconfused6]

I insist on face to face convos over and over i say things like "i can tell how upset you are right now would you like me to meet you at the lake or go get food?" i also make sure he knows he is welcome at my house anytime... .the response i always get is i'm no good to be around anyone right now i just need to be alone... .then it blows over and it is never mentioned again or he will apologize and do a little bit of explaining then i better not dare mention it ever again... .

Crap just hit the fan... .he was telling me about how him and his dad got into a huge blow up last night i was very good and said "i know how much this upsets you and i understand why you are angry and hurt by it" he said "i have to get out of this house" "but my mom" and i said what about her? he said i can't leave her behind i simply said (which i'm sure wasn't ok) you told me last night she will never leave no matter what so what do you think the solution is?... .all heck broke loose again... .i attacked his mom i'm evil and cold hearted he is done with me i brainwashed him and kept his heart in a cage i am manipulative i am killing him and i dont care... .i lose his mom wins i tried to compete and i lost she defends him and i only worry about myself i am disgusting and if he stays with me he will end up dead because of the lies i tell him... .he's much more calculated than he comes off as and he set this up and i reacted just how he knew i would... .i deserve to be alone forever if i didn't have my job i would have nothing i'm a terrible mom and human being i am pathetic he is getting a restraining order on me hes leaving me because of how terrible i am i deserve to be hurt he feels nothing but hate towards me he's going to my sons school to post things about me on the bulletin board so i lose custody of him and he recorded all of our convos and he's going to destroy me he can't believe i still have my job since i cry everytime he does this to me and i don't deserve anything but bad... .how dare i attack his mom

keep in mind this is 12 hours after he called me upset because no one would talk to him because they were to busy AGAIN... .

i got about 100 text messages from him and i responded and said "snap out of it i love you get it through your head i'm not going to just run away and give up because you are being like this... .that's not what you do to someone you love and care about... .

he said you talk sh*t about my family, tell me i'm wrong about everything adn i have BPD. i got kicked out of class today because of all the texting... .do you understand that? i never would have thought about BPD had you not ever mentioned it... .be honest (of course i wanted to argue because everything he said is complete crap and out right lies but i bit my tounge)

i said just like you are learning your triggers so am i in no way could i have known that me asking what the solution is would come across as attacking and i am sorry for that.

HIM i'm sorry give me space i haven't told you everything that happened last night and what i'm dealing with so i don't expect you to know. it's overwhelming me and no i'm not breaking up with you

ME i love you don't push me away

Him i love you too

10 minutes later Him my dad know what will happen if he calls the cops on me i think he likes watching me panic 8 xanax itook to drown him out my mom had to threaten him with domestic violence if he called me the cops  she's the only thing that stands up for me with that and she did it without a second thought my life would be over if she didn't

of course i wanted to say wow a complete 180 from everything that you said 12 hours ago, but i didn't, his mom does 1 thing and now all of a sudden she's the best thing to ever happen to the earth... .it's like he found that 1 reason to hang on and make her a good person again and none of the bad matters and she did it for selfish reasons to keep him hanging on because she knew "standing up to his dad" would make him think she will do anything for him... .the whole time she knew his dad would't do anything she just had to look like the "hero" and i get verbally, mentally, and emotionally abused because of it... .so now once again he is going to put his whole life on hold and just stay in that miserable place because his mom took up for him 1 time... .

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6,

You've really been doing a fantastic job.  I'm sorry things went so badly south.  How are you doing?  When things go that badly south, I just focus on recovering.  Sushi helps me.  So does ice cream.  If it's really bad, sushi and ice cream.  Walking the dog or going for a run are also good.  What are your "feel good" recovery strategies?

WW

[lostandconfused6]

thank you!  i am doing ok i guess, he sent me a text at 1 am saying he is so sorry about today and he is a terrible person and i didn't deserve any of what he said and he's sorry for how he is and he will never forgive himself for today and he is jealous of me... .i had notifications on silent for his texts so i read it this morning when i woke up... .i simply said i accept your apology and you aren't a terrible person we all have things to work on what matters is that we take the steps to improve i love you he replied and said i love you too... .

he called me crying a few min ago his mom might have a blocked carotid artery so he is freaking out and thinking she's going to die... .i was comforting but careful not to feed into the drama he was creating and the over exaggeration... .i had a stroke and have MS and i can assure you he doesn't act like that with me... .especially when me and my doctor tell him that the stress he causes is basically killing me he even started a fight with me when i was in ICU after my stroke... .it's comical to me honestly... .don't get me wrong i hope his mom is ok and it's nothing but it confuses me when he gets like this over something that he doesn't even know for sure yet

as far as helping me recover i like tacos and chips and salsa... .unfortunately my tummy is starting to reflect that also

[isilme]

I am a chip-o-holic - I cannot stop eating them if I am stressed it seems.  Somehow that is a comfort food?

 

it's like he found that 1 reason to hang on and make her a good person again and none of the bad matters

He is very much looking for a way to reconcile loving her but her not being perfect.

BPD has a lot of black and white thinking.  I did it, too, when my parents first divorced.  Basically, my dad was scary, physically abusive my whole life, I to this day I still have fight or flight reactions if I just see him from far away (small towns, yay).  As a child, he literally beat me black and blue with a belt, picked me up by my hair and tossed me around, and as I got older and he got forced into counseling somehow by the Army for spousal abuse, he switched to mind games and manipulation.

BUT, during the divorce, I was cognizant enough to know he was the devil to stick by, instead of my substance abusing momo, whose decisions had us evicted, who had OD'ed, and who thought my purpose in life was to wait on her hand and foot so she could stay drugged up in bed all day.

I painted her black, and my dad, my horrible, sociopathic dad, I patined white.  I NEEDED one of them to be "okay" and to believe someone out there loved me and wanted me.  And as some form of self-preservation, as he could at least keep a job, I got in a car with him about 15 minutes after ripping him off my mom and stopping him from killing my mom by strangulation, and we left mom and moved 18 hours away.  To this day, I really can't figure what I was thinking.  But I made my dad a saint in my mind because it was a defense mechanism.  This is the same man that for months had been threatening to murder-suicide me, mom, and himself with kitchen knives.  How crazy is that?  I chose this person to be my hero, because I had nothing else.  And he knew to some extent how vulnerable I was, how much I needed to please him and keep him happy so I'd not self-annihilate.  So he played me.  He told me how much my mom really hated me, she supposedly wrote me but he destroyed the letters telling me she never wanted to talk to me again.  And I fell for all of it, because he was painted white, and could do no wrong. 

This is why accepting he did not really love me was so hard when I was kicked out at 19.  All the pain I went through realizing my mom was just bad at being a mom, all that loss of self-worth and rebuilding of myself I'd done regarding her, I had to do all over again. 

So your BF is in a similar situation.  He can't reconcile loving his mom, because he can only love someone who is "all good".  And his mom MUST be "all good" because she's his mom, right?  But she does weird things that kinda hurt him... .error, does not computer... beep beep.  zzzzzkkt. 

[lostandconfused6]

I am so sorry you had to go through that! What you said makes a lot of sense to me, i feel like he has to have at least 1 parent that loves him so it's his mom because she has done less harm than his dad... .

This morning i get a text saying " i think you are on to something i need to rid myself of my whole family, that's all i'm going to say for now but my mom is included in this. when you are right you are right" i didn't push the issue and said i understand i will be here when you are ready to talk

through out the day i have gotten bits and pieces apparently his mom lied about the blockage in her carotid artery and when he sort of called her out on it she told him i hope i die today or something really bad happens to me... .she has called and text him at least 100 times today even while he was in class doing what she always does "i'm sorry please i'm sorry i didn't mean it i love you what can i do to make it better" then 10 min later i hope i die today and all the other things she says to guilt him and make him feel bad... .

I wanted to say so badly now i see where you get it from because you do the same thing... .but i didn't because i feel he already knows that and it doesn't need ot be said... .today is the first day he has came straight out and said he knows his mom has BPD and she is the reason he is like this... . 

he said he has a conversation he needs to show me between him and his mom... .that it's priceless so i guess i will see it tomorrow... .i just hope he can get away from her asap or keep the mindset he has now but i'm not counting on it

[Radcliff]

lostandconfused6, it sounds like you are being very deliberate about when to be supportive, when to stay silent, etc.  It sounds like you are approaching this in the best possible way.

isilme, I've gathered some of your story over the last months, but parts here were new to me.  I am so sorry for the child who should have been safe.  It must have taken so much grit and courage to get where you are today.

WW

[lostandconfused6]

I am def trying my best... .yesterday he had a mini meltdown (as i like to call it ) first it started with him waking up at 6 am and i wanted to sleep alittle longer (it's my only day to do that) and he laid next to me telling me i'm the worst and "this is what hell feels like" then  he forgot about my sons bday party yesterday and all heck broke loose... .for him to take a hour and a half out of his day was going to be the difference between him failing school or passing (so over dramatic) but yet he can spend 1 hour in the shower and another 2 hours procrastinating getting dressed and playing games on his phone or looking up stuff that has no relevance to anything on the internet... .i didn't even fight with him about it but i surely heard for the rest of the day how he feels like a piece of crap... .

i wanted to say there were so many small things you could have adjusted and done to have been able to go... .but at the end of the day i'm picking my battles

i'm to the point that he admits he has a problem he recognizes most of his triggers knows what he needs to work on and that he needs to re prioritize his life... if i don't see small baby steps soon i'm leaving... .he is literally killing me and making my MS progress so much faster than it should be

[isilme]

I think we are going to need to change your name to foundandconfident :P

You sound like you are getting a good feel for when input can help, and when it might backfire.  just be prepared for the journey of his disengaging from his mom to have some backward steps, like he will be doing great, he will be seeing her the same way you see her, and then bloop, 3 steps back for whatever reason.  Try not to let these days discourage you.  We are all here to talk  and hlep you through them.

 

WW - I joke my background is an after-school special.  I guess it's all okay since I am who I am and most of the time I've move past the low self esteem I grew up with and can admit I'm not the most horrible person out there    It's provided me with a unique set of skills that can help in my various jobs when dealing with not-too-happy people. 

[lostandconfused6]

Thank you! i wish i was found! The only thing i feel confident of is that  i'm either very close to the edge or i'm learning to accept that i will have to live like this the rest of my life... .and just keep him separate from the rest of my life so i have some chance at sanity  I appreciate ya'll so much for being here for me!

He started to get a little snippy with me today about some really dumb stuff... .first it was becasue i was at lunch and had to get off the the phone so i could eat my food and get back to work after i had already talked to him for 15 min... .then i asked if he told the doctor about how he is constantly nauseated and having stomach pains and he said no i didn't so drop it that's not an issue... .i didn't respond then this... .

99% of the time he wants me to text him all the time whether he is studying or not. He texted me i replied and then i didn't get a reply waited 45 min and said did you get what i sent? He said wow i'm doing homework i was waiting for that text.  i literally just laugh at this point i put my phone on silent and put it on the back part of my desk at work... .i keep a journal/log of what he freaks out over and how often and make sure to include exact words and phrases he uses just to see how many times his "go tos" come out of his mouth... .