Time to stop playing pong with myself

[Shawnlam]

After another night of not sleeping again because my brain and heart are still at war over my exGF BPD I have to center myself and frankly decide today what the hell im going to do.(enough is enough). Like most of you said to me recently I need to pick one ,stay and give a 100%! Or go 100% but none of this let’s stay friends crap.Presently I don’t know where she stands either ,when we saw each other on Sunday the touching ,eye contact ,kissing and hugging were intense ,Her texts to me after were I love you and miss you ,I’m thinking of you.Most of the time after I’ve physically been around her she is very intense afterwards.BUT when time goes by she gets distant again a lot less texts and stuff ,I think she does it on purpose.I believe the feelings she gets when I’m around her are very intense for her , I think she may love me as much as a BPD can and it overwhelms her ,once I’m gone she gets nervous or anxious so keeps her distance to settle herself.

With that said I should be seeing her tomorrow for dinner and if she doesn’t cancel ( BPD people are so unreliable)... .I’m going to have to make a decision.I think

[juju2]

Go easy on yourself.

It sounds like you need to maybe take some quiet time, meditate, let all thought meander past... .relax... .pause... .breathe... .exhale ... .inhale... .peacefulness... .
calm... .sense your breath... .let thoughts be... .question nothing... .let it be... .be present...
... .

I sense a frantic energy, if I can calm myself down, no decision has to be made now... .let me choose, let me get to my serene place, 

juju

[Tattered Heart]

Welcome to bettering. I'd like to second what juju6860 said. It seems like you are pushing yourself to make a decision that may not necessarily need to be made yet. You said yourself you aren't sure where she is or even where you are. Sure, it will help you with indecision to make a decision, but what if you just let things grow naturally. Just go to dinner. Hang out. Let whatever happens, happen.

But go in understanding that it's going to cause intense emotions and begin trying not to let yourself become overwhelmed with emotion. What can you do to curb the intensity?

[waverider]

Going in thinking you have to make a decision means you dont fully observe and you are likely to react to the moment. The moment is never a good indicator as it is unstable.

Observe and compare at sometime when your absent with all the other times and get an overall sense of the big picture. This should guide your choices, as the average is unlikely to change much in the long term. All the peaks and troughs will continue to fluctuate around this average. Inconsistency is the most consistent thing about BPD

[Shawnlam]

True I need to seriously stop trying to forecast how the dinner will go ,I just need to go and let it happen.I should easily pickup on her emotions and mood and just maintain any positivity and go with the flow.I will know quickly if she does want to go back together if so I’ll feel it.I don’t know why I try to always analyze situations before living them

[Skip]

After another night of not sleeping again because my brain and heart are still at war over my exGF BPD I have to center myself and frankly decide today what the hell im going to do.(enough is enough).

What do you mean, "enough is enough"?  

You broke up. You came here angry/frustrated. Then you missed her. You contacted her with an apology. You both met and there are still feeling on both sides. Things are tentative with her - you worried yesterday that breaking up twice has damaged the trust - and you are stressed/tentative.

Why are you stressing?

Seems like you are a very fortunate guy. This could have turned out very badly - and it still can if you don't get a hold of yourself. Then you will be stressing even more with fewer options. Read the Detaching Board. A lot of members would love to be where you are.

Shawn, you don't need to make a lifelong commitment here or be 100%. You certainly don't want to jump start the old relationship. That didn't work for either of you. It will not work again.

Just steer the ship to a safe harbor. Start slow and court her while you both resolve your tentativeness.

Change your thinking, approach, exectations... .you will know soon enough where this is going.

BPD people are so unreliable

Please stop this. For your own sake. She is not a Golden Retriever. She can read these feelings in you. My ex was more reliable and punctual than me. It's not necessarily a BPD thing.

Besides, its low EQ and weak talk and it doesn't help you or her. You've got to up your game - whether it ends up being her or someone else. This is the Bettering Board - you get no slack here.  

True I need to seriously stop trying to forecast how the dinner will go ,I just need to go and let it happen.I should easily pickup on her emotions and mood and just maintain any positivity and go with the flow.I will know quickly if she does want to go back together if so I’ll feel it. I don’t know why I try to always analyze situations before living them... .

I think you should analyze you.    You are putting way too much on this dinner. Go, have a good time. If she digs in a little, listen, tell her you want to think about it and talk again.

Have a plan that avoids meltdown or controversy... .focus on having an enjoyable time, stay away from relationship talk, if she goes down that path - listen really carefully and say you want to thing about what she said and talk next time you get together.

Shifting gears... .

What was her re-occuring complaint about you in the relationship? What is yours?  Let's start there.

[Shawnlam]

Her  complaint before we broke up the first time was nothing really except she found it hard to convince me that she actually loved me. ( never understood that one).After we broke up the first time then with justification it was all about her thinking I’d leave again(keep in mind during that period I knew absolutely nothing about cluster b disorders in general) .Those were her main complaints ,occasionally I’d get the odd comments from her like  “your love is so strong for me it’s burning” or “ you are overwhelming in a good way”. You see I broke a lot of the alpha male hand book code on this little woman that I usually never do ever with other woman I’ve seen.I always had great success with my other relationships because I came off as much much stronger.On this one I fell hard in love fast and always felt I could never show her enough love ( pretty much like everyone on here).

My issues with the relationship were : lack of trust towards her , and her flip floppy attitude that nothing could please her or she misread everything.NOW and only NOW do I understand the flip flop attitude and most likely have the ability to deal with it.The trust issues that’s not going anywhere soon.

[Skip]

nothing really except she found it hard to convince me that she actually loved me. ( never understood that one)... .

When your partner says something is a concern and we don't understand, we need to dig harder... .they may struggle to communicate it well and we made need to read into things. This is true for all partners.

I suspect that this is fear of vulnerability and it related to insecure attachment issues that she has (a lot of people have).  When a person has to fight there own fears of vulnerability (which is what you are doing now) its really serious stuff. Breaking up to be heard is not a good tool with a person like this. Save breaking up for when you are done.

My issues with the relationship were : lack of trust towards her , and her flip floppy attitude that nothing could please her or she misread everything.

What is it that you don't trust?

[Shawnlam]

Anyone who still texts their old boyfriends can’t be trusted , same I. Reverse.How can I trust her

[Tattered Heart]

Anyone who still texts their old boyfriends can’t be trusted , same I. Reverse.How can I trust her

That's a really big question to find an answer to. If you are starting this relationship again, you will have to be able to get past this. Relationships are built on trust. How is trust rebuilt? What does trusting her look like to you?

Could you lay out here what behaviors would be and would not be acceptable in your relationship? Take some time to look at your own boundaries. What are your values in regards to trust and trust worthiness in a relationship? I would not bring this topic up tonight. That's for a later date. But it's important that you do start looking at that now so you can measure your own progress.

[Skip]

Anyone who still texts their old boyfriends can’t be trusted , same I. Reverse.How can I trust her

Can you say more about this? When? What? How many?

What is factually going on here?

[Shawnlam]

Yeah she keeps in touch with her ex’s I think it’s a way of having plan b’s if that even makes sense .They text her and she texts back but I never read her texts just saw the names on her car navigation screen.I do know I was told she cheated on her last boyfriend with the previous one which was 7 hours away.But I also know her previous boyfriend left her three times taking all the furniture with him... .so can you call it cheating if the guy left? I don’t know . Frankly I prefer not to live in her past to be honest because rumors make for the worst assumptions.I think it’s safer to just focus on what she has done to me and they are as follows... .
Cancelling the whole seeing her family at Xmas and New Years
Cancelling dates and plans we had
Her booking trips with her friend(gf) some fishy and some normal but always last minute
Because we didn’t see each other much and she would book them on the one or two weekends I could see her angered me more
She also would promise things and never follow up on them examples( when she moved out of her moms she said you gonna come stay with me during the week baby?) then she never ever would invite me
She wanted to move together at the end of last year ,even went through with looking at homes to rent etc ,only to back out twice ?
This list honestly just keeps going on and on

So as you can see trusting her is almost impossible.Even tomorrows finer I’m like ... .probably 50/50 she won’t cancel.The good news is we aren’t together so now it franky doesn’t bother me.
In final I was always the one booking stuff or asking to go out etc etc... .I think one she asked me out.Now I know men are usually the leaders in a relationship but it’s nice to see it go both ways.Aftrr reading endless stories here many of the people on the site had the same issues  as myself where it always seems a one way street.THat doesn’t bother me as much BUT the trust thing does

[Skip]

I think if her ex moved out and took the furniture, she has every right to date... .

Is there something concerning in her connection with ex boyfriends or is it an occasional catch up? If this bothers you, it will help to clarify what it is so that you can process it. Leaving it as vague and a smoldering ember isn't healthy.

Same thing with her active social life outside of your relationship. What is going on there. This is also vague. Are you only available a few days a month?  What is happening here?

So as you can see trusting her is almost impossible.Even tomorrows finer I’m like ... .probably 50/50 she won’t cancel.

Is this trust or inconsiderate/insensitive or taking you r for granted or not as committed as you would like?  These are very different things that require different types of responses. If you are mistaking trust for "not as committed" and you are handling it by breaking up, you are just making matters worse. You two might be in a dynamic where you seem like you have one foot out the door and she is responding by not putting all her eggs in one basket (not pointing fault).

It sounds to me like (just guessing) that she is either a lot more independent than you are used to or that she is not fully bought in to the relationship. It could also be that she is just selfish and self serving.

What do you think?

This could be that you two are sexually attracted but not that compatible in lifestyle.  You know, too good to leave, too bad to stay.

I think it will help to dig into these feelings and concerns.

[Shawnlam]

Honestly skip from what her ex best friend told me plus what I’ve observed she seems to be selfish yes I can’t lie.She is a mother of two with total custody of her two boys and the father gets to see him once every two weeks.With that said I understand her time is precious and hence it doesn’t bother me when she takes time for herself either BUT doing it last minute with no regard for my life ... .pisses me off for sure.Also she is immature for her age I tend to see at 29 and a mother of two she should have got her s$$&& together in a much more structured way.In her own words she doesn’t like to plan anything because she likes to do what she feels when she wakes up etc... .Now she never took the time and probably won’t to notice that’s probably why her entire life is a cluster f$&@k .She has zero ahead of her and it doesn’t look like it’s gonna get better anytime soon.Id go as far as saying she has narcissistic traits for sure ,more than most average people .

Hell just writing this to be honest is making me wonder why exactly am I getting back into this. Your questions are kicking me back into the mind frame of why I left in the first place .Her excuse because I did bring this up has been a mix of “you never give me a chance to plan stuff,or  my present living conditions is making me feel this way and I’m not myself ) however most people would realize with her looks and age this is solely not attributable to a present living situation.

Sexual attraction all though isn’t a problem for us is certainly not the attraction factor here.In all honesty I have no clue why she loves me (or says she does)? Is it because I’ve shown relationship interest vs only physical ? Why she wants a relationship when she acts like she wants to be single? I don’t know? The fear of being alone when she’s technically alone anyways? All good questions right? Well I’ve been asking this for a long time .When I asked her she said she wants a family life and a farther figure for her sons ... .but does nothing much to go for it? I could go on and on because even when I was with her ,this was a never ending hamster in the cage for me since the holidays .During the honeymoon mirroring phase it’s all I heard and it all tapered off in January,yet she gets super upset when I left? Then this week I get the texts of I’m thinking of you,goodnight etc So yeah welcome to my life

[Jessica84]

My BPDbf cancels plans/trips regularly. It can be very frustrating! It used to hurt my feelings. I'd get all dressed up, looking forward and eager to see him... .only to get a last-minute text saying "let's get together another night". Now, I just slip back in my jammies and have a girls night in. I don't think it's intentional (anymore). It's part of the impulsive decision-making of BPD. At some point, I had to accept that, and not take it personally.

Do you think you could accept this as her nature? Or is it a deal breaker for you?

[Shawnlam]

Jessica I don’t really know if I can live like that it’s franky something that causes anxiety in my ,my entire career is about planning and order and hence my life as well.Im all for the opposites attract thing but there are limits

[Skip]

So the issue is that she very independent (which can be selfish at times), is a free spirit, and holds on loosely in a relationship.

You live a different style, as Jessica says.

I don’t really know if I can live like that it’s frankly something that causes anxiety... .

So maybe this is not about trust, but rather compatibility. It's not about good and bad, trust and mistrust.

You said that "She found it hard to convince me that she actually loved me" and it didn't make sense or seem meaningful to you. Is this starting to make sense now? Could it be that she sees (or feels) that her level of commitment and lifestyle is not validating you in the way you want to be validated?

Now we are getting down to the values discussion. What is your value here? She is not going to wake up a different person tomorrow and neither are you. We know that. Are there changes/compromises that can be made to make this work (hard question) and can either or you be comfortable with them (harder question).

[Jessica84]

Shawnlam - I hear you. Order, organization, and punctuality are super important to me. Skip raises a good point. This is about values. You value your time, you don't like it wasted. We respect our values by setting boundaries. When my bf flakes out, I make other plans. If he changes his mind 10 minutes later, I tell him I already made other plans (or I'm sorry, I already put my jammies back on... another night?) This was hard at first. I still wanted to see him, but not at his whim. I can't plan my life around what kind of mood he's going to be in next Tuesday!

Over time, he got a little less flaky... .but it still happens. I made peace with that. Not saying you should. Everyone has to look at their own values and decide which ones are absolute lines in the sand, and which are more flexible.

[Skip]

Perfect example of values, boundaries, and not rewarding bad behavior.

 

[NGU]

Hell just writing this to be honest is making me wonder why exactly am I getting back into this. Your questions are kicking me back into the mind frame of why I left in the first place.

You're overthinking this. You’re all over the place. I can feel your brain spinning as you post.

Here are some examples of what you really don't have to concern yourself with right now:  

In all honesty I have no clue why she loves me (or says she does)? Is it because I’ve shown relationship interest vs only physical ? Why she wants a relationship when she acts like she wants to be single? I don’t know? The fear of being alone when she’s technically alone anyways? All good questions right? Well I’ve been asking this for a long time .When I asked her she said she wants a family life and a farther figure for her sons ... .but does nothing much to go for it? I could go on and on

Fortunately, you can boil everything down to simple facts that have been firmly established.
There’s a girl. You love her. You’re OK with changing a bit to see if it works out.

If you can’t fit a thought into a homemade flowchart, then it’s not important right now. Ah, the flowchart. The linear, stripped-down miracle of decision making.

I Might Reunite With My Ex and I’m Confused

START ---> Do you love her? ---> YES ---> TALK TO HER
Are you worried about the past? ---> YES ---> Did you decide to start over? ---> YES ---> TALK TO HER
Are you able to focus? ---> NO ---> You’re simply fighting your own emotions ---> TALK TO HER
Are you having second thoughts? ---> YES ---> START --->  :)o you love her?

I get the compatibility thing. The nagging questions. Sure, talk it out right now in this thread. Just don't forget the one-step-at-a-time concept to go along with it.

Dinner. Re-evaluate.

[Shawnlam]

Well I had a long talk with her this afternoon , it’s official we are back together fffffff. Time to start learning real quick about how to handle this

[NGU]

Well I had a long talk with her this afternoon , it’s official we are back together

This has been quite a week for you.

[once removed]

it’s official we are back together fffffff. Time to start learning real quick about how to handle this

i dont know if ive ever heard so much dread at the prospect of getting back together  

but seriously shawn, do you want this relationship (really, no right or wrong answer)? because i think if you walk in with that attitude, it will blow up at the first fight.

[Shawnlam]

No I do just nervous is all,even my therapist said take it slow and be a wise mind not a logical one and not an emotional one either.Im just nervous because it’s hard to retrain your mind 41 years later but I’m anxious to do it and I do want to do it.Even if let’s say this doesn’t work,having a wise mind will not be a bad thing moving forward in life.

[Skip]

Good advice from your therapist. For anyone wanting info on WiseMind... .


bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

[NGU]

The Wise Mind concept, translated:

The higher-functioning part of your brain fights with your caveman brain.

The caveman brain wants none of this nonsense. All it wants to do is breathe, eat, sleep and handle fight/flight.

The higher-functioning parts of your brain are losing. Because as separate parts, they're still shockingly self-destructive. One part gets sick of the constant failure and suggests a Group Meeting. Here's pretty much what they realize:

Im just nervous because it’s hard to retrain your mind 41 years later but I’m anxious to do it and I do want to do it.

Their post-meeting game plan:

Let the caveman brain do its thing. But we'll surround it. We'll stay a team and make sure everything goes through us before it hits the outside world.

That's Wise Mind.

[NGU]

The Caveman Brain, Part 2: Relationships

The caveman brain likes soft things and procreating. Maybe woman. Woman good. I take woman.

Life doesn't work that way anymore. The higher-functioning parts of your brain are needed, but if they never had the Group Meeting, it's complete freaking anarchy up in there.

One part of your brain is like "Hey, I deserve everything."
Another is like "But... .but... .we're not good enough."
Another is pouting. "This is haaaaarrrd."
And then this nonsense: "Yeah, I know women like gentleness, but I'm a MAN. Real men are tough. Being gentle is a sign of weakness."
And to make matters worse, some rouge part clobbers everyone with "Yeah, but is she THE ONE?"

On and on and on.

Doesn't matter if someone's entire life is locked down.
Maybe they learned to eat their pride in basic training.
Maybe they learned self-control at their job as a corporate executive.
Maybe they're financially perfect. Debt-free and saving plenty.
Maybe they can cook and clean and all the other self-reliant/independent things people do.

Doesn't matter. Anarchy.

No parts are listening. Just shouting and freaking out. The resulting Group Meeting might last for weeks or months or years. Finally, a consensus is reached:

"OK guys, here's what we decided. There is no key to happiness. Life is a constant set of hurdles with some fun stuff thrown in. Our job is to appreciate the fun stuff. As for the challenges, we take one at a time and make a group decision. And then we casually re-evaluate as we go. Because this meeting is NOT adjourned!"

Cue gavel.

[Shawnlam]

Well last night I got some good tips from my therapist who technically understands why I couldn’t let her go just yet.Since it is obvious I’m someone that’s fairly hard headed , a little too proud and hates to be disrespected plus way right on the logic mind he suggested this.When she does something that will trigger me first step is to literally bite my tongue softly to not speak ,and put the phone down right away.Take 10-15 deep breaths and then reread the text or in case of being in person  excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and proceed with above.Then ask yourself why did she say or text the issue,what mood does it feel like she’s in? Is it a test she’s doing,is she just not thinking straight etc etc.Then be that pillar of strength that either needs to support her ,or discuss at a later date once calmer how what she did affected you always keeping in mind not to judge her with your words or actions.
He also said to keep your sanity in all this keep working on myself by working out like I used to,keep motorcycling and etc etc.

[waverider]

Well last night I got some good tips from my therapist who technically understands why I couldn’t let her go just yet.Since it is obvious I’m someone that’s fairly hard headed , a little too proud and hates to be disrespected plus way right on the logic mind he suggested this.When she does something that will trigger me first step is to literally bite my tongue softly to not speak ,and put the phone down right away.Take 10-15 deep breaths and then reread the text or in case of being in person  excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and proceed with above.Then ask yourself why did she say or text the issue,what mood does it feel like she’s in? Is it a test she’s doing,is she just not thinking straight etc etc.Then be that pillar of strength that either needs to support her ,or discuss at a later date once calmer how what she did affected you always keeping in mind not to judge her with your words or actions.
He also said to keep your sanity in all this keep working on myself by working out like I used to,keep motorcycling and etc etc.

Breathing space is your friend, immediate reactions are your enemy. The logical and the emotional are both capable of reacting too quick. The logic wants to make a decision and move on, but the emotional side needs time to digest this decision and provide input on how that sits with you emotionally, this consolidates the acceptance part

[juju2]

S,

You are in the correct mind space.

You actually can make this work, 1%, as you say.

She, because of how you are being, can get healthy.
Healthy supports healthy.  You have a support group(us), you do not have to re invent the wheel!

juju