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Author Topic: Terrified of seeing uBPD after 3 years  (Read 538 times)
Peacewithin

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« on: April 18, 2018, 04:23:45 PM »

Hello, BPD Family.

So, I'm going to see family to celebrate graduations this May.  I haven't seen my uBPD mother or my codependent(?) father for 3 years, and they'll be there. 

I'm working really hard to be okay in myself regardless of how she (and anyone else) behaves.  I'm going to Coda meetings and doing EFT (emotional freedom technique) and therapy regularly and have been for several years.  In general, I feel really good in myself.  In Coda, they talk about having courage, integrity and dignity, and I mostly feel that way.  Going to the family event is for me about seeing people I care about and to decrease my phobia of her. 

Unfortunately, when I think about seeing her, or even speaking to her on the phone, I feel terrified.  Sometimes, I can overcome it in my mind but I don't know if I can when in front of her.  My sympathetic nervous system (especially "freeze" activates and I feel like I'm being choked.  Today, I spoke on the phone to my aunt who is nice to me but closer to my mom.   The first thing she said to me was "have you called your mother".  Just those words, and I have been feeling the terror (of my mother) for a few hours. And, the confusion of being pushed by my aunt to be closer to my mom.  It's been weeks without that feeling and just the mention of her (by someone who supports her more than me), and I'm sobbing.  I feel absolutely terrified. 

I've said very little to this aunt about my perspective, as I don't want to get into a triangulation amongst the three of us.  The gist is that about 2.5 years ago, I tried to set a boundary with my mom and she got very upset.  I've tried to keep in touch casually with cards at holidays.  The few times we've spoken, she asserts that my perspective is wrong, that I've been trying to hurt her, that everything I've done or not done has been from the worst possible motivation. I think our realities are completely different.  It's like she's talking to some horrible person and not to me.  I've avoided phone calls like the plague because it's really hard for me not to bow to her perspective and drown in feeling crazy and shameful.  I know that's not the truth of me. 

I just want to stay "me" when I'm around her.  I want to stay calm and to not go down the rabbit hole of her diseased perspective.  I want to enjoy my family. I just don't know if I can do it... .  Maybe I can't be around her.  I'd like to try. And, I'm afraid of the pressure that some family members may make to bring the two of us together.  About half see her BPD behavior, and the other half don't seem to.  I'm afraid of freezing under pressure.  I don't want anything to do with the drama.  It doesn't feel like it has anything to do with me anyway.  The person she calls by my name is not really me... .

Thank you so much for reading my post.  I so appreciate having a place to share it.  Thoughts/advice/etc. welcomed.  <3

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Peacewithin

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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2018, 04:35:42 PM »

Oof, after writing that, I also realized that I'm livid at being subject to her drama.  I recognize that it's my choice.  Just because someone gives you a role doesn't mean that you have to take it.  In my mind, I won't join the victim/persecutor/rescuer triangle.  What to do when my nervous system is still caught up in it?  Ugh. 

Thank you 
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2018, 10:43:52 PM »

What do you anticipate,  based upon past behaviors?
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Peacewithin

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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 12:17:19 AM »

What do you anticipate,  based upon past behaviors?

Hi, Turkish.  Thank you for the reply. 

In some ways it's difficult to anticipate because over the years her behavior towards me has been all over the board.  The thing that I am anticipating most based on her recent behavior is that she will say things about how she is a victim and I'm a persecutor.  It seems likely that, especially around other people, she will cower and act afraid of me along with the occasional snide jab at my character. 

What I'm mostly afraid of is my own response.  I tend to freeze and lose access to words.  It's also very hard for me not to believe her perspective and feelings over my own. 

Thanks again!
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 01:17:29 AM »

Hi peacewithin.    

Okay, lets brainstorm what you can do to help you stay calm and in the moment when you are there.

First, will you have a friend or someone you feel close to with you? 

Regardless, what worked for me was to practice saying things out loud and visualizations. 
~  You want to pick short easy phrases.  Ex. No.  Stop it.  That is not true.  Knock it off. (?)
~  You want to use a firm tone, not angry.  Be neutral (which is why practicing saying the phrases out loud is important) or, if you can, say it with a gentle shake of your head. 
~  Do not JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain)  that just gives her more power and ammunition.
~  Visualize yourself surrounded by supportive loving friends and hear them telling you in your mind that she is lying and what she says is really what she believes about herself (are you familiar with projection?)
~  Visualize yourself in a clear bubble where everything she says bounces right off of you while you keep repeating in your head "this is all about her not me"
I am not recommending using SET or anything like that as it may be too stressful.  We want you to get through this easily and in a positive way so you have something to build on right?  Do you think these things will help?  If not, can you modify them to your style here so we can talk this through?

If you can, I recommend having your own transportation so you are free to leave.  Not that you will have to but just knowing you can leave might help a lot in terms of helping you stay calm.  With that in mind, I suggest keeping your keys, cash, credit card on you at all times. 

If you are worried of what others will say we can brainstorm things to say to them too... .and then you need to practice them too.  Saying them out loud is important as is practicing them often.  It will help things feel and sound familiar to you and they will feel more natural.

In the meantime, between now and then do not feed your fears.  I can get myself all worked up in anticipation of things and it is not good.  What works is to tell myself "I've got this".  Practicing will help you to believe that.  Having your safety plan will help.  Do not keep telling yourself you are terrified.  You've got this! 

What do you think?  Maybe your T can help you come up with responses you can say.  I wrote what worked for me... .and I left some out too.  Sometimes what I said was not nice and involved swearing.    That was me tho.  I don't recommend it but if it happens, it happens. 

My mother used to cringe away from me and act scared, claimed I hurt her, acted like I was violent.  No.  Just NO.  NO.  It is not you.  It is her.  I think I know that choking feeling.  My throat tightens and burns just thinking about it.  It is not true peacewithin.  What she says how she acts.  It is all about her.  I don't think it is deliberate lying but what she says and does are lies.  Imagine me saying that over and over to you.  Harri says No.  She is lying to you and about you.
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Panda39
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 07:10:44 AM »

Try and be aware of the FOG too. Recognize it for what it is.

Try and be present.  I would describe that as being both in the interaction with your mom and outside of it (being an observer) at the same time.  This has helped me not take things as personally as I might have and see things from a more objective perspective. (I have actually been fascinated by the dynamics between my mother and myself when watching us from the outside)

My mom isn't BPD but is critical and controlling and is capable of FOG too.  We had an interaction where she was using guilt to try and get me to do something and I realized it.  I decided to do nothing until she asked for what she wanted for example.  I realized the interaction wasn't about what a bad daughter I was but her inability to ask for what she wanted.  The old Panda would have done what was expected based on the Guilt. The old Panda was always trying to get my mother's love and approval... .I finally realized it was an impossible task and stopped trying and am so much happier for it.

Information from the site on "Wise mind" that might be helpful... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

Hope I've given you something that helps,

Panda39
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 08:30:22 PM »

Hi Peacewithin

I'm glad you shared how you are feeling about this situation. That takes courage. Thank you for trusting us!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I had very low contact with my uBPDm and when it came to my daughter's graduation and later her wedding, I also was greatly stressed with the thought of her coming. Oh all the drama! Too much, as I'm sure you are worried about as well.

I was wondering a couple of things about this upcoming situation. Do you feel small or young, like when you were a child and subject to your mom as you think about the fear you feel with the upcoming visit? If so, about how old are you feeling inside? I'm thinking this may give you some clues with which to work.

Do you plan on having family stay at your home or at a motel?

 
Wools

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Peacewithin

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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 12:00:46 PM »

Wow, thank you for the beautiful and kind replies, Harri, Panda39 and Woolspinner2000.  So appreciated, and your words are very helpful!  I'll reply more fully when I can.  Thank you, thank you.   
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Harvest_Moon

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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 06:59:45 PM »

Thanks for sharing this. I know that fear... .Even seeing an email in my inbox from my BPD makes me feel kicked in the stomach with fear of not knowing what hurtful thing is coming next. The practical, concrete input from Harry, Panda and Wool spinner is so helpful.

Thank you all.
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Peacewithin

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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 01:09:49 PM »

Hi peacewithin.    

Okay, lets brainstorm what you can do to help you stay calm and in the moment when you are there.

First, will you have a friend or someone you feel close to with you? 

Regardless, what worked for me was to practice saying things out loud and visualizations. 
~  You want to pick short easy phrases.  Ex. No.  Stop it.  That is not true.  Knock it off. (?)
~  You want to use a firm tone, not angry.  Be neutral (which is why practicing saying the phrases out loud is important) or, if you can, say it with a gentle shake of your head. 
~  Do not JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain)  that just gives her more power and ammunition.
~  Visualize yourself surrounded by supportive loving friends and hear them telling you in your mind that she is lying and what she says is really what she believes about herself (are you familiar with projection?)
~  Visualize yourself in a clear bubble where everything she says bounces right off of you while you keep repeating in your head "this is all about her not me"
I am not recommending using SET or anything like that as it may be too stressful.  We want you to get through this easily and in a positive way so you have something to build on right?  Do you think these things will help?  If not, can you modify them to your style here so we can talk this through?

If you can, I recommend having your own transportation so you are free to leave.  Not that you will have to but just knowing you can leave might help a lot in terms of helping you stay calm.  With that in mind, I suggest keeping your keys, cash, credit card on you at all times. 

If you are worried of what others will say we can brainstorm things to say to them too... .and then you need to practice them too.  Saying them out loud is important as is practicing them often.  It will help things feel and sound familiar to you and they will feel more natural.

In the meantime, between now and then do not feed your fears.  I can get myself all worked up in anticipation of things and it is not good.  What works is to tell myself "I've got this".  Practicing will help you to believe that.  Having your safety plan will help.  Do not keep telling yourself you are terrified.  You've got this! 

What do you think?  Maybe your T can help you come up with responses you can say.  I wrote what worked for me... .and I left some out too.  Sometimes what I said was not nice and involved swearing.    That was me tho.  I don't recommend it but if it happens, it happens. 

My mother used to cringe away from me and act scared, claimed I hurt her, acted like I was violent.  No.  Just NO.  NO.  It is not you.  It is her.  I think I know that choking feeling.  My throat tightens and burns just thinking about it.  It is not true peacewithin.  What she says how she acts.  It is all about her.  I don't think it is deliberate lying but what she says and does are lies.  Imagine me saying that over and over to you.  Harri says No.  She is lying to you and about you.
[/size][/size]

Thank you for all these ideas, Harri!

Yes, my husband will be with me as well as several supportive relatives.

I'd not actually thought to say "That's not true." when she says untrue things about me.  I guess I thought it would make things worse... .but now I feel motivated to try it. 
In addition to "that's not true", I've thought of these:
"I'm sorry that you feel that way."
"I hear you, and my perspective is different." 
"No. Please stop saying that."
"I respect you, and I'll need to leave if you continue saying bad things about me."

JADE... .great! I tend to justify, defend and explain.  No need to go there, just gets into drama that way.   Bubbling and visualizing, I do regularly but it's hard for me not to lose them around her. 

Mostly it is me feeding my own fears... .I'll keep repeating "I've got this!".  And, I get into a drama triangle in my head... .I want to totally, cellularly let go of the drama.  Most of the time I can (as I live 3000 miles away) but when I think of seeing her, it gets stirred up.  I can do this. <3

" Imagine me saying that over and over to you.  Harri says No.  She is lying to you and about you."  Thank you. Thank you.  I'm a really gentle person (therapeutic movement specialist) and it's so upsetting to be told how awful I am.  I so know it's not true and will work to believe that through all my cells. 

As for other people who she enlists in the drama triangle, what are some phrases that have worked for you?  I'd like them to know that there's no drama on my end and that I don't want to speak about her with them.  Just not sure of the phrasing. 

Thank you again and again, Harri.  So kind of you to share so much with me. 
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2018, 02:19:31 PM »

Hi Peacewithin!  I'm glad the ideas helped and better yet sparked your own solutions.  You've got this!  You really do. 

Excerpt
"I'm sorry that you feel that way."
"I hear you, and my perspective is different." 
"No. Please stop saying that."
"I respect you, and I'll need to leave if you continue saying bad things about me."
I like them.  Well done!  See, you've got this!  <wild applause>
Excerpt
And, I get into a drama triangle in my head
Oh me too!  I can play all three parts of the thing all by myself.  LOL  I think it is a result of growing up the way we did.  It's okay.  Sometimes the things I say to myself in my head are just so out there that I actually tell the voice "Oh shut up" and roll my eyes at myself.

That leads me to things you can say/do if other people try to interfere.  Again, take what works and modify, reject, but practice!

With other people, here is what worked for me (not all are recommended but they did work):
~ Do you really want to involve yourself in my mothers issues? <said with a puzzled look>
~ I appreciate your concern but I got this <said with a gentle smile>
~ they say "oh your mom said this about you" you say <with a slight grin> Ah yes, that's my mom" and laugh a little (not at your mom but at the statement)
~ If they ask "how is your mom" while clearly probing for info, say "Why don't you go ask her yourself she is right over there" and then turn to someone else

In another post a couple of people recommended leaving a one sided convo or uncomfy situation with the old "Excuse me I need the bathroom".  Who questions *that*?

See what you can come up with cuz You've got this!

Don't forget there can be great benefit in telling yourself to shut up when you find yourself spiraling in fear.  Or if you prefer "stifle it!" "You're not the boss of me fear!"

Harvest Moon, glad you got some benefit from this thread also.  These techniques can help you a lot with the email fear.  You've got this!
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Peacewithin

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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2018, 11:26:49 PM »

Try and be aware of the FOG too. Recognize it for what it is.

Try and be present.  I would describe that as being both in the interaction with your mom and outside of it (being an observer) at the same time.  This has helped me not take things as personally as I might have and see things from a more objective perspective. (I have actually been fascinated by the dynamics between my mother and myself when watching us from the outside)

My mom isn't BPD but is critical and controlling and is capable of FOG too.  We had an interaction where she was using guilt to try and get me to do something and I realized it.  I decided to do nothing until she asked for what she wanted for example.  I realized the interaction wasn't about what a bad daughter I was but her inability to ask for what she wanted.  The old Panda would have done what was expected based on the Guilt. The old Panda was always trying to get my mother's love and approval... .I finally realized it was an impossible task and stopped trying and am so much happier for it.

Information from the site on "Wise mind" that might be helpful... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=64749.0

Hope I've given you something that helps,

Panda39

Super helpful.  Thank you, Panda39!   
Yes, FOG.  Yes, presence. 
I appreciate your personal story... .congratulations for making that shift in perception! 
I'm going to copy all of your (and the others) comments for easy access on my trip 
Thanks again!
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Peacewithin

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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2018, 11:36:38 PM »

Hi Peacewithin

I'm glad you shared how you are feeling about this situation. That takes courage. Thank you for trusting us!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I had very low contact with my uBPDm and when it came to my daughter's graduation and later her wedding, I also was greatly stressed with the thought of her coming. Oh all the drama! Too much, as I'm sure you are worried about as well.

I was wondering a couple of things about this upcoming situation. Do you feel small or young, like when you were a child and subject to your mom as you think about the fear you feel with the upcoming visit? If so, about how old are you feeling inside? I'm thinking this may give you some clues with which to work.

Do you plan on having family stay at your home or at a motel?

 
Wools



Thanks, Woolspinner    I feel fortunate to have found a safe-feeling place to talk about this stuff. 

My husband and I will be staying at a place by ourselves.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)   With a car.

Cool question about age... .Let's see.  So, it feels preverbal.  Maybe under 1 year... .I just freeze (though it's getting better from all the help on here).  But when it's full-blown, I freeze.  It's like there's no escape and no words.  I've also been thinking about the dog I grew up with.  Sometimes my uBPD mom could be really mean to her, and the dog would freeze.  It feels like that.  As I wrote this, I can still feel that place but it feels less strong, less relevant to the present.  I think all the tools you all have offered are helping.  They're also helping me to remember all the work I've done and the skills I've acquired over the years.  Thankfully, I'm not a helpless infant.  As Harri says, I've got this!

Grateful.  Thanks! 


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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 11:46:56 PM »

Thanks for sharing this. I know that fear... .Even seeing an email in my inbox from my BPD makes me feel kicked in the stomach with fear of not knowing what hurtful thing is coming next. The practical, concrete input from Harry, Panda and Wool spinner is so helpful.

Thank you all.

I'm sorry that you can relate, Harvest_Moon.  It's an awful feeling.   
And, thank you for sharing.  The part of me that feels like the crazy comes from me (and not the BPD) feels relief that I'm not alone.  Every time I hear about someone else's similar feelings/thoughts/situation, it helps me to believe that I'm okay.  Thank you. 
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2018, 08:32:46 PM »

Thank you for your positive vibe, Harri.  I really appreciate it!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I realize that part of my practice is cutting off "that" voice in my head.  It's not really me but more about what I'd learned from her.  I can practice healthy boundaries with it!

So with people trying to get involved:

I like the "Ah, that's my mom" haha response.

And, if they ask about her and she's not around (happens with my MIL on the phone)... .something like
 "I'm not sure, but I bet she'd like to hear from you."

"I appreciate your concern, but everything is fine on my end."

With someone saying that I need to call her, or whatever... ."I hear that you care, and I don't want to speak about it."  

How do those sound?  It's really hard for me to come up with the right thing to say in the moment, so I appreciate all the encouragement to think it through ahead of time.

Thank you!

 
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2018, 08:41:17 PM »

Hi again Peacewithin,

You are doing a great job of absorbing all the information shared with you! So many helpful thoughts!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

First, I am so glad you are staying by yourself and with an escape strategy: your own car! Woohoo!  Smiling (click to insert in post) Seriously, this is great planning.

Excerpt
Cool question about age... .Let's see.  So, it feels preverbal.  Maybe under 1 year... .I just freeze (though it's getting better from all the help on here).  But when it's full-blown, I freeze.  It's like there's no escape and no words.  I've also been thinking about the dog I grew up with.  Sometimes my uBPD mom could be really mean to her, and the dog would freeze.  It feels like that.  As I wrote this, I can still feel that place but it feels less strong, less relevant to the present.

I'm glad you were able to think about this and touch base with how you feel. That can be a big help to you. Did you know that there are also positive characteristics of the freeze state? I didn't until recently, and in fact it still boggles my mind! Pete Walker discusses them in his CPTSD book and lists these positive sides of freeze: Acute awareness, mindfulness, poised readiness, peace, and presence. What do you think about taking the freeze reaction and considering the possibility of applying some of these positive steps? As in when you freeze, listen and be ready to walk away if and when you need to(poised readiness) . Or being acutely aware of what she is actually doing and saying and seeing the truth in it as you stay present and maintain control of you and what you want to do.

 
Wools
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2018, 10:29:46 AM »

I think the responses you came up with are excellent.  They are right on target, keep you on your side of the issue and out of any drama.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
It's really hard for me to come up with the right thing to say in the moment, so I appreciate all the encouragement to think it through ahead of time.
Sure.  Some people find this helpful and others don't.  Whatever works right?

I really like Wools suggestion to change your perspective about any freeze response you may have.  What do you think?
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 12:55:02 AM »

Wow, Wools, that sounds like paradigm shift... .I'd never thought about freezing as anything but awful.  Very cool, I'm going to check out his book and percolate more on this.  Thank you! 

And, thank you again for the encouragement, Harri!  I love the quote at the bottom of your post: "... .everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.' - Viktor Frankl".  Beautiful.  His book, "Man's Search for Meaning" is so powerful. 

I'm really glad that I chose to share about my situation here.  I'll be re-reading all of your great responses to get me through.  It'll be like bringing some extra friends with me. Thank you much.     
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2018, 09:06:55 PM »

Just want to give a shout out of THANKS! to all who helped in this thread.  I just returned from the trip and things went well.  Mostly, I was happy that I was able to remain myself and not lose myself to her reality.  It was a real paradigm shift for me!  And, I think she did the best she could.  A lot of little tries to shame and enmesh, but it all felt softer than before.  I do have some concern about how to move forward, but mostly I feel grateful.  Grateful to myself for all the work I've been doing.  Grateful to her for not being worse.  And, grateful to this board for all the support.  Thank you!   
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2018, 09:18:43 PM »

WooHoo, PeacewithinDoing the right thing (click to insert in post)

That's such great news! Celebrating with you! Maybe Harri can bust out the cheerleaders.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Isn't it so empowering to stay present?

Awesome,
 
Wools
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There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.  -C.S. Lewis
Harri
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2018, 09:42:38 PM »

That is wonderful news peacewithin!

Hmmm... .did you say cheerleaders Wools?  I've got a whole team for you.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

       

Not losing yourself is huge.  That is hard to do but you did it!   

Excerpt
A lot of little tries to shame and enmesh, but it all felt softer than before.  I do have some concern about how to move forward, but mostly I feel grateful.
It may have felt softer because you are not seeing her as being all powerful over you any more? 

As for how to move forward, you think about it.  What do you want?  The good news is that you got through an event with great success!  You can build on that. 

I hope you stick around.  People tend to get the most out of the board when there is less stress present.

I am very pleased for you! 
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  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
Panda39
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Relationship status: SO and I have been together 9 years and have just moved in together this summer.
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2018, 10:56:06 PM »

Glad things went well peacewithin sounds like you were able to hold your own  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Harri, the pom pom girls are awesome, sitting here with a smile on my Panda face  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
Peacewithin

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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2018, 11:11:41 AM »

Thank you, Panda, Woolspinner and Harri!

I can almost hear those cheerleaders  

Yippeeeee  Smiling (click to insert in post)

And, Harri, this quote at the end of your message is so profound: "~'... .everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.' - Viktor Frankl"

 
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Harri
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2018, 08:44:33 PM »

Hi again Peace.

I like that quote too.  Sometimes I say it in my head defiantly but usually it gives me such peace, joy and determination.  I feel empowered with its simple truth.  

 

A smiling Panda?  Awesome!
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  "What is to give light must endure burning." ~Viktor Frankl
hellebore1

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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 01:32:25 PM »

Thank YOU for the reminder that my own sense of phobia, terror and "freeze" response if confronted by my own BPD half sibling (who I haven't seen in 15 years but who lives in my town) isn't inappropriate or wrong.  I wouldn't say I live in fear I'll run into him but the possibility is always there.  I've often wondered what I might do if or when it happens, thanks to this board I'll now have some tools to use if and when.

I've been told many times by family members who live in other states and don't know my BPD half sibling well to "just get over it," "forgive and forget"... .I now minimize my contact with those family members. 

I'm so glad things went well for you!
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Peacewithin

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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 11:44:28 AM »

Thank YOU for the reminder that my own sense of phobia, terror and "freeze" response if confronted by my own BPD half sibling (who I haven't seen in 15 years but who lives in my town) isn't inappropriate or wrong.  I wouldn't say I live in fear I'll run into him but the possibility is always there.  I've often wondered what I might do if or when it happens, thanks to this board I'll now have some tools to use if and when.

I've been told many times by family members who live in other states and don't know my BPD half sibling well to "just get over it," "forgive and forget"... .I now minimize my contact with those family members. 

I'm so glad things went well for you!

Aw, that's good to know!  I'm so glad that my posts were validating for you.    Thank you 
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