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Author Topic: I think she saw the birth of our children as attention away from her  (Read 978 times)
Wick

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« on: April 21, 2018, 07:22:42 PM »

     This is my first post and telling of my story so feel free to ask questions or recommend improvements for posting style but be kind.  I will lay it out in a serialized format because to write it in one sitting would be too much and I'm a slow typist.  Plus I anticipate there will be some "fires" that will need putting out along the way.  So feel free to read it as it unfolds or come back in a week and waste your time in one stretch.  Lastly, names have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty.  

     Where to start?  I would say at the beginning but that is all rainbows and unicorns.  The real interesting stuff started 10 years into our marriage after the birth of our second child.  I don't know if it was hormonal or an irrational fear of abandonment brought on by more "family attention" and less "individualized attention."   Either way or maybe the planets were aligned (I have learned it doesn't matter.) my life changed dramatically by any person's standard.
      
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2018, 08:54:14 PM »

Welcome!

You are in the right place.  I am glad you found us.

Please share more, is your wife diagnosed w BPD.  If you would say more about how things started, and what are you doing for yourself.

With healing, help and hope, j
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2018, 10:04:32 PM »

Welcome, John W.!

Welcome

Let me join juju6860 in welcoming you to the discussion forums. You will see from reading the posts here that you are far from alone.

Thank you for sharing with us what you have thus far:

Where to start?  I would say at the beginning but that is all rainbows and unicorns.  The real interesting stuff started 10 years into our marriage after the birth of our second child.

We're glad you're here. Feel free to write whatever you like.

I believe you will be greatly comforted by the support here and the fact that we really understand what you are going through. We've all been there to varying degrees. Take care of yourself. We will look out for future posts from you.

Keep writing, keep processing, keep learning!


-Speck
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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2018, 11:31:08 PM »

    This is my first post and telling of my story so feel free to ask questions or recommend improvements for posting style but be kind.  I will lay it out in a serialized format because to write it in one sitting would be too much and I'm a slow typist.  Plus I anticipate there will be some "fires" that will need putting out along the way.  So feel free to read it as it unfolds or come back in a week and waste your time in one stretch.  Lastly, names have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty.  

     Where to start?  I would say at the beginning but that is all rainbows and unicorns.  The real interesting stuff started 10 years into our marriage after the birth of our second child.  I don't know if it was hormonal or an irrational fear of abandonment brought on by more "family attention" and less "individualized attention."   Either way or maybe the planets were aligned (I have learned it doesn't matter.) my life changed dramatically by any person's standard.
      


The thing with BPD is, that the honeymoon period lasts longer in some than others as it varies. When you are giving into all of their demands, they remain in control, the second that an interruption occurs, they feel like they lose their control and thats when the manipulation, the tactics and lies start. It really is true BPD's are some of the greatest actors you will ever meet. I am very protective about mental illness's and no way am I categorizing all BPD's but the problem is once somehow has this, if THEY do not want to get better, it won't happen and even with the best therapies in the world, the person can only disable triggers, and at one point or another there will be a relapse, and thats the harsh truth. Most of the success stories that are seen here are due to the fact that, it was not hyper state. Welcome to the forums, and i'm sure as you read and search, you too will find the answers you are looking for. I apologize if I have offended anyone, but reality has to set in at one point in time.
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 02:14:36 AM »

Welcome, John.  I agree that BPD behaviours appear after a honeymoon period.  I am sorry this is happening.

You identify a trigger as the birth of your second child.

What happened?  Can you describe it?

You will find many articles on this site to help you.

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Wick

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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2018, 11:10:37 AM »

Thank you for the supportive welcoming's.  I do have a technical question and this might not be correct place to ask but how do I change the category this post is in?
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Wick

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2018, 12:18:20 PM »

     I'll go into more detail later but to answer the questions.  When we were first married and before kids it was us two against the world.  She was my focus outside of work and to satisfy her ever increasing need for attention (willingly I will admit) friends and hobbies went the wayside (which would later move over to the negatives column of her list +/- list of me.)  Then, five years in our first child arrived and it was all new experiences that we shared together.  Then 2 1/2 years later our second child arrived and while I saw it as the same new experiences because he was his own unique individual.  I think she saw it as attention away from her and the uniqueness didn't override the perceived lack of required attention because it wasn't a new experience even if the child was unique.

     There is no official dx.  When we got close (I mean the therapist got close) she stopped going because he wasn't "good."  Also my therapists have all confirmed that what I describe to them are borderline traits (obviously they won't dx unless she is seeing them.)  So, not officially dx'd but I have a right hand I would bet on it.
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2018, 12:23:18 PM »

     I'll go into more detail later but to answer the questions.  When we were first married and before kids it was us two against the world.  She was my focus outside of work and to satisfy her ever increasing need for attention (willingly I will admit) friends and hobbies went the wayside (which would later move over to the negatives column of her list +/- list of me.)  Then, five years in our first child arrived and it was all new experiences that we shared together.  Then 2 1/2 years later our second child arrived and while I saw it as the same new experiences because he was his own unique individual.  I think she saw it as attention away from her and the uniqueness didn't override the perceived lack of required attention because it wasn't a new experience even if the child was unique.

     There is no official dx.  When we got close (I mean the therapist got close) she stopped going because he wasn't "good."  Also my therapists have all confirmed that what I describe to them are borderline traits (obviously they won't dx unless she is seeing them.)  So, not officially dx'd but I have a right hand I would bet on it.

Thats very strange, but it depends on the behavoirs before marriage as well, because the attention seeking could be due to a multiple reasons but being isolated from your friends is a big warning sign. As for the therapists, BPD are pronte to that, they get close to them and then pull away, its sad and upsetting at times but they are not looking for treatment. They can pretend and act for so long, until a trigger is pushed and thats all hell breaks loose.  But I have to ask, what would you like out of this relationship? What would you like to do?
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2018, 07:42:52 PM »

     Thanks Struggler123 for your commentsrious.  Curious what seems strange to you?  Maybe I explained it wrong or am focusing on a non-BPD trait.

     With regard to the therapist, it was a marriage counselor and when he was validating her opinions it was fine.  Once he started discussing her 50% she was gone (mid session in fact) and never returned.

     As far as what I want.  The logical side of me knows I should get out (should have got out years ago) but the emotional side feels sorry for her, responsible for her and captivated by her.
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 08:23:32 PM »

     Thanks Struggler123 for your commentsrious.  Curious what seems strange to you?  Maybe I explained it wrong or am focusing on a non-BPD trait.

     With regard to the therapist, it was a marriage counselor and when he was validating her opinions it was fine.  Once he started discussing her 50% she was gone (mid session in fact) and never returned.

     As far as what I want.  The logical side of me knows I should get out (should have got out years ago) but the emotional side feels sorry for her, responsible for her and captivated by her.



I mean obviously BPD's vary and no BPD is a like, but in most cases BPD's have these mood swings or like they say the mask comes off soon after marriage, I'd say a year and a half- 2 years.  Some BPD's are against having kids because it steals the attention away from them. Some BPD's want kids to keep you tied in. It's a very destructive road. But, I can understand the effect that it has on you, because you have a normal emotional IQ, you see these things and your brain is unable to comprehend how suddenly the love of your life can become such a different person.  In terms of BPD, they don't like to look at their flaws, in fact, the second that they have to discuss themselves, they feel like its a threat, because they try so hard to be accepted. To the extend where they will mold into exactly what you want to be. Now, to make a diagnosis such as BPD, can't exactly be done unless a professional health care aka doctor makes it but based on the traits, it could be highly likely. But like they say one size does not fit all. It could may very well be that she feels neglected, and shes having a tough time coping with responsiblities, but anyhow turning back to you. I can't make the decision for you nor do you have to make a decision overnight. You have to first understand that, you are not held responsible for the actions of someone else, would you marry someone because you felt bad for them? Would you inflict pain to yourself knowing it will only do YOU harm? The problem is we ask the wrong questions while knowing the right answers. You are not responsible for her, she is responsible for herself and SHE needs to get HELP. There's nothing wrong with that, but like with any illness, unless you aka the patient does not want to get better, the outsider can't do anything. A doctor can prescribe you medicine, but if you don't take it, he can't force you. That's the idea, I think that you should have some boundaries or a safe place, where you can just focus on yourself and not be focused on any stress. Think with a clear mind, and make yourself better first. Start with maybe going to support groups, joined therapy sessions and then separate, something like that, im sure you will be able to do it step by step. As for you to understand BPD a little more, heres a guide, read it and then tell me if you feel like this is you, Note:In no way is this categorizing BPD, but it will tell you things you didn't know.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=324260.msg12961067#msg12961067
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2018, 09:32:05 PM »

 
     Where to start?  I would say at the beginning but that is all rainbows and unicorns.  The real interesting stuff started 10 years into our marriage after the birth of our second child.  I don't know if it was hormonal or an irrational fear of abandonment brought on by more "family attention" and less "individualized attention."   Either way or maybe the planets were aligned (I have learned it doesn't matter.) my life changed dramatically by any person's standard.
      

John W.,
Like you my marriage seemed to start off smoothly with very little problems.  I learned of my wife's BPD diagnosis after we got married.  She kept things under control for 5 years and continued going to therapy and taking medications.

After the birth of our first child she completely lost emotional control and was unstable for a 3 year period.  She was hospitalized several times and had several ER visits, many of which could be dubbed attention seeking.  Like you I have learned it doesn't matter what the trigger is as long as it is not something you can control.  I have learned not to rationalize what is causing her behavior.

Lately my wife's behavior has stabilized.  I chalk that up to a significant increase in her antipsychotic medication and the fact she has started working part time.  Our daughter is now 4 which means she is becoming more independent.

I would recommend to read up on BPD, its causes and symptoms, and look at many of the communication tools available on this site.  Those have seemed to help tremendously, especially the SET approach.  I would recommend to get your own therapist, build a support network of close friends and family, and to use the people on this site as an asset.

Also, I would recommend to take every precaution to prevent another pregnancy.  I honestly doubt that we will make the choice to have another child because my wife's behavior over a 3 year period nearly wrecked our relationship.  We are just now recovering.

Good luck, and always be sure to reach out for support when you need it.
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 11:36:03 AM »

Thanks Michael43.   The two kids we have are all there will be.  After the second child (by c-section) my wife was smart enough to have the doctor tie her tubes before closing up.  Plus we are in our late
40's now and heading toward divorce.
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 12:03:51 PM »

Hey JohnW, lovely to have you aboard... .maybe lovely isn’t the right word as I wish for your sakes you weren’t feeling the need to post and you were happy in a loving partnership... .but you’re here and the more you tell the more of a framework we have to understand the complexity of your situation.

My first take is that your relationship has always had its challenges but you have had the physical and emotional capacity to fill the demands.

Child 1 & 2 probably took some of that emotional and physical capacity as well as put additional strain on your W’s emotional and physical wellbeing. It’s tough being a parent. All that responsibility.

Other aspects you might want to reflect on and there’s articles in the tool section that explain this more articulately than I will, but pwBPD often see a child as the utopia... .a child looks into your eyes, in perfect union, perfectly controllable and more importantly they do not invalidate you.  I don’t think I’ve seen my wife happier than when she had our little ones... .and then they grow up and get minds of their own, and the pain begins.

BPD is a spectrum disorder so no 2 experiences are identical. Various emotional triggers muddy the water coming from our own personal experience and the other partner (you) will also contribute to the manifestation on the disorder by their behaviours and their changes in behaviour. Neither person is a constant and life events mean change. New job, interaction with kids, all sorts of things.

Although the kids element is a good marker, perhaps it’s a bit of a misnomer that you should see as just one of a number of things that has brought you to this point. My guess is that traits were always there, you just either brushed over them or they were manageable.

How does she express herself towards you and the kids?
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 12:59:55 PM »

     So let's jump into the good stiff.  It was about 9 years into the marriage she started an emotional affair with a Facebook friend.  I discovered it because of the overage charges on the cell phone bill. Back then everything wasn't unlimited unless you paid for such.  Since my wife "hated" texting we didn't pay for an unlimited plan.   They were in their early 40's but it was middle school lovey dovey stuff.  No sexting.  That would come later with different guys.
    
     I confronted her AND I agreed to spend more time with her.  .  I was already at home and engaged with her most week nights and every weekend plus at least one lunch during the work week. But I agreed to raise the bar even higher.  Like taking days off and 30k of vacations we couldn't afford.  It all seemed like a new start.  We had reconciled and were stronger.  I thought I had avoided the seven year itch and was fortunate to escape with only a nine year tickle.

    Granted, my naive notion of soul mates and true love was shattered along with my innocence.  I guess we know how this turned out  ... . 1 1/2 years of ignorant bliss and false reconciliation.   There is where the cautionary tale comes in.  Now, I would never tell anyone what to do.  Each situation, no matter how similar sounding, is unique to the individuals.  The cautionary tale is for my future.  

     You can never dig out a flooded hole that is below the water line.  You can fill it in and dig a better situated hole.  I am not saying it would be impossible for me but you have to devote all of your time, energy and money (and probably your sanity) to it and you still have a muddy hole at best.  I deserve better than that, don't I?
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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 01:13:17 PM »

     Yes, Enabler,  the traits were probably always there.  The way my relationship is ending is the same as her relationship ended prior to ours.  I was always able to stay ahead of th curve.  I thought I had to but not initially because she demanded such.  Because I wanted to do more so I could justify to myself that I deserved all of her love bombing.  I'll own that issue.  Eventually all of the normal strains on a marriage and "performance exhaustion" were interpreted by her as rejection.
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 04:15:26 PM »

All makes a lot of sense and is certainly along what I know to be the trajectory of pwBPD... .unless I too am smoking rock!

So, your reality now is (if you don’t mind me being presumptious):

- you’re emotionally exhausted
- you’re not 100% sure of your own truth (what you have done, what your wife has done)
- you’re not sure if you love your wife, you’re not sure if you should love your wife if you do love her
- you’re not sure how to make the emotional turbulence stop and want to get on a steady footing
- you’re worried about your kids
- you’re worried about your wife
- you have the feeling that you’ve given away so much of yourself you don’t know who you are anymore
- you’ve been feeding the beast for so long you don’t know where to start

Well, here’s my first piece of advice, don’t mention BPD... .know it, learn the tools, but it’s a thing. For her, this is her reality and has been for reality for many many many years. She has numerous defence mechanisms protecting her reality, such as walking out of couples counselling, the social masks she has etc etc. Now is for learning, decisions are for “in a bit”. Get your thoughts together and decide what you want to do.

What is the current state of your relationship with your wife?

How are things with your kids?

Are you and the kids safe?

There is a wealth of experience here, understanding BPD traits can be like discovering the enigma machine to understanding your wife. It can allow you to make informed decisions and give you inner peace even if you cannot fully manage the chaos on the outside.

As one of the bpdfamily wise men say, take yourself to 30,000 ft and see your part in the chaos. Start with “do I invalidate my wife?”
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2018, 05:23:12 PM »

My wife did good for first 7 years of marriage, but started having problems after 3rd child, but I had no regrets.  She nose dived after 4th pregnancy which was twins.  Been through much of the worse of what you and others describe.  My W got dx BPD and has been in treatment last 4 or 5 yrs which has helped put a cork in most of the acting out.  I've stuck with her mainly because she stuck with her treatment and made slow progress which I reinforced with boundaries and trying to maintain positive connection with her outside the boundaries.  Not easy or pleasant to do. I'm convinced if my W was not in treatment and making some kind of slow progress in some area, then sticking would have been a waste of life. 
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2018, 06:17:46 PM »

     Thanks teapay for the sharing and support.  I am glad your wife is committed to getting emotionally healthy.  A commitment to change is the one reason I would stick around (no matter how slow as long as steady). I'm not so lucky and I stopped holding my breath and hoping.  But no matter what I do have two great boy's from my relationship.
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2018, 07:07:43 PM »

Hi

What I gather, I those of us in relationship w BPD, we are not normal.  We see something, others do not see.  So, you and i are bucking social mores

It's about what do I want.!

What is my life about.

Can i get clear, can i get past social mores, what looks good, can i get down to my truth.

I don't know.  It is a daily endeavor.  Just sharing where I am at.

Sincerely, j
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2018, 07:10:33 PM »

 :)Hello John,
Just a listener here as I'm in no,position to give advice . Still grasping at my situation.
I'm sorry you're in a tough spot and I look forward to hearing your story.
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2018, 05:07:16 AM »

The treatment/progres boundary I have I had to set up and enforce.  I did take some prodding by me.  It emerged initially out of my W sub abuse issues.  The idea is a partner shouldn't tolerate an alcoholic or addict running rough shot over the family for the next drink or hit.  It can be extended to the BPD.  It throws both the Non and the BPD into their corners of responsibility for health of themselves and ultimately the relationship or it justifiably dissolves.

There are things the Non can do to make themselves and the relationship less worse.  Honestly, though, without the BPD (like the alcoholic or addict) making roads to get better, the relationship is likely to be quite poor and the Nons  opportunities for the most out of their brief life squandered.  I've seen it from both sides, treated and untreated, and there is little comparison.  The behaviors of my W with active BPD, like an active addict, are just to much for me and the family to bear full time.

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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2018, 08:02:39 AM »

     Enabler, yes to all of those observations.  The kids are fine but I will get them therapy very soon.  I have a good bond with them.  I may not be the fun parent but I am the stable one who gives them unconditional love.  My only concern is that my wife is trying to convince my oldest son that his younger brother is my favorite.  Not true!   She is taking advantage of the fact he is a teenager and he needs to feel like he is rebelling and I have to let him find his independence within reasonable boundaries.

     Right now I think they see her erratic behavior as a result of alcohol.  Which is another monkey we have deal with but is more tangible to kids than a personality disorder.  Alcohol = Behavior as opposed to; BPD = Irrational Feelings = Emotions
= Behavior and nothing is personal no matter how it feels to you.

     I am trying to detach.  I feel sorry for her and myself.  I may be a lost soul but she is a tortured soul and will probably suffer the rest of her life.  I am realizing that whenever I treat her with empathy and kindness she stabs me in the back.  I know it's not malicious in her mind but I have to treat it that way because that is the end result.  She'll never have the clarity to stop being controlled by the insecurity the illness creates.  I should.realize that I don't have to save her.  No matter how tragic it may be, nature and her childhood have provided her the best survival skills possible.  Even if it destroys those who stay close to her.
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2018, 10:00:25 AM »

Couple of things I picked up on there... .

"I may not be the fun parent but I am the stable one who gives them unconditional love" - Is this who you want to be or is this whom you feel you have to be to ensure that the balance in the house is maintained? Do you feel that you can't develop independent boundaries and rules with your kids which are not in-line with your W's? i.e. do you feel you have to be more strict to balance out your wife's chaos? How do you think this works? How do you deal with your eldest son being told that the youngest is your fav?

"whenever I treat her with empathy and kindness she stabs me in the back" - Could you give us some examples of this please. Unless you W is actually physically wounding you, her words can only cut as deep as we allow it. Our self confidence is our stab proof vest. My guess is you have a strong sense of values, you hold your integrity as a person in high regard. When she knife's you up she cuts into this sense of integrity. Spending time critically observing yourself is a great way of strengthening your confidence and therefore deflecting her knife from wounding you. Her strength is in her ability to wound your ego. We can protect that. We can also disable her ability to fight with us. We can work on all of these things.   

Sorry, too many questions
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 11:45:20 AM »

Right now I think they see her erratic behavior as a result of alcohol.  Which is another monkey we have deal with but is more tangible to kids than a personality disorder.  Alcohol = Behavior as opposed to; BPD = Irrational Feelings = Emotions= Behavior and nothing is personal no matter how it feels to you.

I am trying to detach.  I feel sorry for her and myself.  I may be a lost soul but she is a tortured soul and will probably suffer the rest of her life.  

I am realizing that whenever I treat her with empathy and kindness she stabs me in the back.  I know it's not malicious in her mind but I have to treat it that way because that is the end result.  She'll never have the clarity to stop being controlled by the insecurity the illness creates.  

I should.realize that I don't have to save her.  No matter how tragic it may be, nature and her childhood have provided her the best survival skills possible.  Even if it destroys those who stay close to her.

Afternoon John W.

I am a little late to your post, but I have read down through it all, and I saw this that you wrote above,

"With regard to the therapist, it was a marriage counselor and when he was validating her opinions it was fine.  Once he started discussing her 50% she was gone (mid session in fact) and never returned.

As far as what I want.  The logical side of me knows I should get out (should have got out years ago) but the emotional side feels sorry for her, responsible for her and captivated by her"


So after having read your words, I want to ask you a question, are you familiar with the term "caretaker"?, as it pertains to a pw/BPD, and do you now consider yourself a caretaker?

In my own relationship, I now do consider myself a caretaker... .all encompassing in its meaning.

I wanted to share this below with you, Skip posted it here many years ago now, but it surely does ring true to me, here goes... .

Skip wrote this back in 2007;

Accept the Role of "Emotional Caretaker": According to Kraft Goin MD (University of Southern California), "borderlines need a person who is a constant, continuing, empathic force in their lives; someone who can listen and handle being the target of intense rage and idealization while concurrently defining limits and boundaries with firmness and candor".  To be in this type of relationship, you must accept the role as emotional caretaker - consistently staying above it. 

~ Maintaining routine and structure

~ Setting and maintain boundaries

~ Being empathetic, building trust, even in difficult times

~ Don’t tolerate abusive treatment, threats and ultimatums

~ In crisis, stay calm, don’t get defensive, don't take it personally

~ Don’t protect them from natural consequences of their actions - let them fail

~ Self-Destructive acts/threats require action

And at the same time, its important to understand that you and your behavior cannot rehabilitate anyone - you can only end your contribution to the emotional instability of the relationship. Rehabilitation requires an individual's deep personal commitment, consistently, and over time.

Thoughts?

Red5

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“We are so used to our own history, we do not see it as remarkable or out of the ordinary, whereas others might see it as horrendous. Further, we tend to minimize that which we feel shameful about.” {Quote} Patrick J. Carnes / author,
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2018, 01:14:15 PM »

     Enabler, please feel free to ask as many questions as you have or like.  In reply to your post:
 
     It's not that I'm not a fun parent (maybe not as carefree as I was) but I seem to be the only stable parent who prioritizes being a parent over a friend.   I feel like she wants them to be her minions as opposed to independent children that will become adults.  My wife complains to me about a behavior of the kids and if I agree I will take steps to correct, only finding that she will undermine me or allow the same behavior she and I had issue with.   I will be the bad guy which I used to worry about but now wear like a badge of courage.  I feel like I have to parallel parent because she can't co-parent.

     With regard to her getting physical ... .  I will say that she says that she will tell the whole town I am abusive.  Not true in the slightest.  I hope my brother is right when he says that people in the town know more of the truth than you think.   He also says to carry a recorder at all times.  I have to get on that.  She lies without regard to any ethics or morals.  She is the queen of not fighting fair or not playing by the rules.  She is an outlier in society.
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2018, 01:49:56 PM »

     Hi Red5.  Thanks for taking the time to observe/comment.  I am somewhat familiar (you know what they say ... .a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) with the term emotional caretaker.  I think if I had realized the extent of her issues years ago that may have been an option.  Now, it's more complicated because of the following; I don't have the same energy/health, finances have changed, kids are older and affected more, and she has crossed lines that I may be able to forgive but can't forget.  Basically, when the cabin pressure in the plane dropped I didn't put my oxygen mask on first.  I must have missed the pre-flight instructions.  I guess it's true, "Youth is wasted on the young."
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Relationship status: Living apart
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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 04:11:25 PM »

Hey buddy,

I suspect your fellow villagers are not capable of thinking outside the box enough to even have the first freakin’ clue what is happening in your world. What I suspect is happening is that you friends in the town are taking you situation, the stories and evidence they see and applying it to something they can believe and have experience. Believing in BPD is like believing in unicorns, it doesn’t matter how much you explain it to people most (unless they have first hand experience) won’t get it and will think you’re smoking rock. I think a personal recording divice is an excellent suggestion... .at the very least for your own sanity and self learning.

Re the kids... .I totally get where you’re coming from. Firstly you need to read about the karpman or drama triangle and see how you can learn how to centre yourself in arguments. Do not rescue and do not allow yourself to be put in the perpetrator position. My guess is you always leave the arguement as the perpetrator (bad guy) and your W always leaves as the rescuer (hero).

My guess is you think that if you beat on your kids they will come into line, you will correct your wife’s “passive parenting” with your “authoritarian parenting”? What you actually want to achieve is authoritive parenting? You don’t think you can get results unless you counteract your wife’s sloppy behaviours? WRONG. So, if you’re passive your kids will seek out boundaries and rules, they will find them and they will cause everyone (including them) stress. Rules and boundaries make them feel safe. (This is where your wife is at, best mates with all, parent to none) . This doesn’t make the kids feel safe. You take the other side expecting to cancel out but with all your strict rules they’re constantly tripping over barbed wire and being penalised... .they stop caring. So... .you need to adopt the middle ground, age appropriate rules and boundaries which help them feel safe, allow them to explore and mature into adults. Your job as a parent is to manage the transition from being a baby to being an adult... .that is it... .to manage.

If your kids feel safe with rules and boundaries but also want to explore and grow... .who they going to follow, look to as a leader and respect? You as a authoritive parent with age appropriate boundaries and rules... .or mum who’s flaky, unreliable and changes her mind? 

You see you can be a parent in the same house independently from your wife, your kids don’t see you as a unit, you never were.
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