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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: False allegations, separation, and custody  (Read 2111 times)
BuckeyHusband

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« on: July 22, 2018, 02:24:36 AM »

Hello,
Seeking support and resources for myself from my wife who suffers BPD. The site has been an amazing help. It is chilling how everything describes what we've experienced, and her personal history to the letter. She has a history of ADHD, PTSD, anorexia, anxiety, postpartum, and other co-morbid disorders.

I've had tremendous support from my sister-in-law (her only sibling) and brother in law. As a medical professional, my sister-in-law recognized the disorder. They are preparing some sort of intervention. They've witnessed suicidal threats and manic episodes, and have had to nearly cutoff all relations to protect their children. My wife doesn't have a formal diagnosis yet, but is 4/4 on risks and 9/9 on symptoms. She has voiced fears of being BPD and does suspect. She is just afraid because there is "nothing you can do. Even therapists don't want to work with borderlines." She has her masters in Psychology... .

My wife has a history of false child molestation allegations pertaining to our toddler, and I even went so far as to take a polygraph. She tends to make these following a sever manic episodes or arguments. I now see this is part of the disorder and called a  distortion campaign. It began after the birth of our son while she had postpartum, and has continued every few months since. She was fired from a job last year and was suicidal and had a mental breakdown. I was alone with our toddler to manage the episode, and a few days later she accused me of molesting him.

I suffered from addiction following a bad injury, and am now 2 years sober. Now that our codependent relationship has ended the distortion campaign has gotten worse. I've voiced to my friends, family and therapist that since I went to rehab - she's gotten angry and seems to be less happy than ever. We were separated for a year following rehab, and recently moved back in together with me as head of household. She has lost two jobs in the last year. She found out last year her abusive, cheating ex was sent to prison for child pornography.

A few months ago she began intensive and inappropriate "interview" or coaching sessions with our toddler. These would be highly aggressive interrogations of him after having yelled at me. He would eventually just shyly say "yes" to whatever she was saying, which would of course cause hysterics. She finally got him to say "daddy touched me" and recorded it. I feel like she creating a situation that would validate her filing divorce (which she often threatens), and make her the victim. Every time she has accused me she immediately gets support from her Mother (Mom is source of abandonment issues), which ends up reinforcing the behavior.

She's been physically and verbally abusive to me in front of our son on several occasions, and her manic episodes might have caused our miscarriage a couple months ago. She finally started to see a Psychiatrist and even suspected she had BPD, but eventually stopped going sending me instead. I was able to get some great tools and was starting to make headway. She was able to turn it around that I was the problem as a sick addict, despite my high performance at work and years of sobriety.

I will finally be filing legal separation and for emergency custody. My sister/brother in law are trying to organize an intervention, but it will take careful coordination to enlist support from my Mother-in-Law. She feels tremendous guilt and tends to lock herself in her room and avoid at all costs (when my wife was suicidal, had knives to her wrists, and I was alone trying to manage - she wouldn't stop golfing at their vacation house to help).

So the question... .Does anyone have experience with false child sex abuse allegations from a BPD spouse/family member, and emergency custody orders? I don't want a divorce, I just want her to get treatment. Her sister/brother-in-law are aware and are hoping I can gain custody as soon as possible. Once that happens they're trying to coordinate an intervention. We have outpatient facilities lined up and I'm trying to find a BPD Psychologist to assist.

This is rambling, but I've been dealing with this all alone. Looking back at old videos of her episodes help to keep me grounded, and I've been watching everything I can on YouTube and reading every article on this site. I have renewed hope but understand that it may take several years before she can be back in the house. Our toddler has started to console her during episodes and acts as the adult with her in ways that is very disturbing to me.

Thanks,
Worried Dad and Husband
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 01:12:36 PM »

Hi BuckeyHusband,

Welcome and hello  Smiling (click to insert in post)

It's remarkable how much support you have from your wife's sibling. That must take at least some of the sting out of what you're experiencing?

I'm sorry if I missed this in your post: do you have a lawyer retained? Or is the legal separation and emergency custody something you are planning once you retain an attorney?

The false allegations are certainly very nerve-wracking, not only for your son's well-being, but for your legal safety.

Can you say a little more about why you need MIL's support? From what you describe, it sounds unlikely she has the stomach for the sturm und drang that is cresting here.

I have experience with an emergency custody order, but not with false sexual allegations. However, generic false allegations are sadly very common here. I've lost track of all the things I've been accused of. What tends to make the difference is having a lot of documented evidence, and being proactive. Some members here were blindsided with false allegations and that can be very damaging to recover from, both financially and emotionally. You are being proactive and that will give you a bit of buffer.

Have you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy? You may not be getting a divorce, but you will want to be well-versed in family law ways and how an adversarial court system can mix with BPD symptoms. It's well worth the cost of downloading a copy of the book from Amazon.

You're not alone in this 

I guarantee you there isn't a thing you could say that would shock or surprise the friends you'll find on this board.   I'm glad you posted and hope you'll feel comfortable sharing what you're going through. We'll be here to walk with you as long as you need support.

LnL
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BuckeyHusband

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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 10:14:37 PM »

Livednlearned,
My BIL is an attorney and gave me a great reference from college. Was able to get a reduced retainer. They are preparing an emergency custody order in conjunction with a separation agreement. We are waiting on a call back from a BPD Psychologist (CBT and DBT specialist). I was going to submit tomorrow, but my SIL and BIL want to wait until they have a contingency in place for the intervention. Should the judge not approve (which isn't typically likely), she will eventually find out through her attorney. So either way she's likely to feel betrayed and have a manic episode. They want to wait until the doctor is onboard and family is prepared.

I'm afraid I won't immediately get approved and then she is tipped off. She will then continue the coaching which is the biggest fear. Our psychiatrist mentioned that false memories can be implanted at that age, before I have the chance to explain what has been happening.

That's why they want to get the MIL onboard for the intervention. She just gave her $1,000, and easily gets enmeshed. You know how it goes. If you don't immediately take her side she's likely to go into hysterics and they don't know how to handle it. As my BIL derscribed it "Her sister has the golden ticket with Mom". Part of their family dynamic. If Mom/SD, Dad/SM, SIL/BIL can all come together it will be more effective.

What was your experience with the emergency order? I live in a top 5 city by population, so I'm hoping they're more open to Fathers getting custody under these terms. Having her family support has taken the sting out. I got a chance to talk to SIL at church (all church, we missed it sitting outside) - and we feel like a light switch has been turned on. We also got a chance to compare notes. Turns out she was never kicked out of the house by MIL as we were always told. She had packed and ran off. Were her exes really abusive? Who knows anymore... .

Thank you for the book reference. I will definitely buy it soon once I get slightly more financially stable. Lots of court fees coming up.

Any thoughts on this website? https://angiemedia.com/2008/12/29/BPD-distortion-campaigns/#.W1aXqNJKjrc

"The campaign may have started a long time before the breakup, to give the Borderline “justification” regarding what she or he has done or is about to do to the target, be it having an affairs(s), kicking them out of a home, filing false domestic violence charges, running away with the children, stealing large quantities of joint money and property, or some other hostile actions."

"What lies do BPs tell? Often they revolve around false claims of partner abuse, child abuse, perverse sexual behaviors, drug and substance abuse, mental illness, and criminal conduct. BPs tend to pick false accusations that are difficult to disprove. Although we supposedly live in a society in which people are “innocent until proven guilty”, the reality is, that is not how people are treated. This is especially the case when accusations of sexual abuse, child abuse, and spousal abuse are involved. The victims of the distortion campaign often are treated as pariahs or even criminals, assumed to be guilty without any evidence whatsoever."

She's kicked me out of the house many times over the years. In the dozens. Plus she recently transferred all of our savings into her personal account. Plus it's not the first time she's accused me of something awful, taken or child, and run off to her mothers. She immediately gets the emotional support she desires, plus lots of financial assistance. Despite the fact I'm paying all the bills... .

Thanks a ton! We're starting to feel like we are back on earth. SIL and I realize we aren't crazy, nor are we alone. We've been lied to so often that everything is now in question... .

I'm not sure if I should file immediately, or wait a couple of days until the family has an intervention prepared with a Psychologist? It may be a good backup plan in case I don't get judge approval right away. That way she doesn't resist the diagnosis for fear of losing custody. If she thinks accepting her diagnosis could jeopardize the plan for sole custody - then our child will have no one to protect him any longer. Plus the risk of coaching and continued programming. "You come to me if daddy scares you." - ":)on't let daddy touch you. He's not allowed." - ":)on't be like your father, he's dead inside." - "Normal people are like you, they console someone that's upset."(mind you he's a toddler, can't even tie his shoes).

BuckeyHusband

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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2018, 08:13:04 AM »

They want to wait until the doctor is onboard and family is prepared.


It may be that you are taking on two objectives here and eventually you'll have to choose one over the other. One is to protect yourself, the other is to rescue your wife. It will be a tricky balancing act when it comes to family law court.

Is this attorney a family law attorney with experience in high conflict divorces? If not, then do whatever you can to find the money to buy Splitting. It will be the best money you've spent. And lean hard on this board. The collective wisdom here will help you avoid costly mistakes. People who marry BPD spouses tend to be codependent and the rescue instinct is strong with us. That same trait can lead to bad outcomes in court because codependent types tend to self-sabotage (inadvertently).

Right now, the most important thing (imo) is to get the emergency custody order in place. What evidence are you submitting to the judge to justify the order? In my county, the emergency order is typically granted, and then it must be heard in full within
3 months. By then, if your evidence is not substantial enough, things go back to status quo. For me, I had unequivocal evidence and it was a shoe-in to have the emergency order granted.  

Excerpt
If Mom/SD, Dad/SM, SIL/BIL can all come together it will be more effective.

Based on what you have said about MIL... .sounds like her follow through is a long shot? Is the family trying to use the intervention as an intervention for MIL? It's probably important to recognize that the intervention is separate from the legal strategy. I can see how juggling these two things would make it hard to focus on job #1, which is to protect yourself from these serious false allegations. When the family does the intervention, what is the expectation for the immediate outcome? That she will get in a car with someone and drive to a treatment center to check herself in?

[/quote]I'm not sure if I should file immediately, or wait a couple of days until the family has an intervention prepared with a Psychologist? It may be a good backup plan in case I don't get judge approval right away. That way she doesn't resist the diagnosis for fear of losing custody. If she thinks accepting her diagnosis could jeopardize the plan for sole custody - then our child will have no one to protect him any longer.[/quote]

Prioritize your safety and the safety of your son. Court is slow, and blunt, and there are a lot of variables that can jeopardize even the best strategy. I had an excellent lawyer, a good judge, and lots of documentation, and it took me 4 years to get full custody. And I'm a mother.

What strategy is your L recommending? If you don't get the emergency order, then what?

It sounds like your wife already has an L? Do you know anything about the L's reputation?

One very complicated thing seems to be that the MIL will be footing the bill for your wife's legal fees. That's the natural conclusion I see based on what you've shared.

Be really careful about getting pulled too deep into the family dynamics. You have to make sure every tactical move, every strategy passes the sniff test. If it doesn't directly serve your safety and your son's safety, then you might have to let them handle things and hope they can get some traction. 
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BuckeyHusband

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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 09:56:25 PM »

Livednlearned,
Yep. I'm taking on both objectives simultaneously We definitely had a codependant relationship until I got sober two years ago. Since then it's been fairly one sided. I'm trying not to get caught up in the family dynamic and worry about her well being. The fact that she's attack me so many times (verbally and physically) in front of our son, and then coach when she knows deep down I'm innocent - well she wouldn't return the courtesy. My pain RX issue was always a convenient scapegoat. Now that it's gone she's got more desperate.

My attorney seems to be well versed in this type of situation. They've had 2 other cases this year that were quite similar. The intervention is for my wife, but SIL/BIL believe that SIL has the "golden ticket" with MIL to gain support. They're thinking that a united family front will be more successful. We've all tried individually and get hammered. Primary fear is for my son, and secondary that she could go suicidal if I succeed or she finds out.

I'm very aware of this suction that pulls me back in now that I know what her illness is, but even her Psychiatrist cautioned me that this will take years at best. Just remind myself to keep both feet on the ground, stay in the light and out of the fog.

Step 1 is Emergency Order (low odds, I have timeline in place, video, audio, and first hand testimony from family, but they'll likely give her a chance for response which will take 2-3 weeks for the formal hearing).

Step 2 Family intervention and inpatient treatment for my wife

I'm thinking that they'll need to do the intervention before or at the same time that I file. It really sounds like the burdon of proof is incredibly high. Granted we are still married and have shared custody, and if her latest false allegation hasn't processed it might help. I haven't heard anything yet.

My wife has been interviewing for a good job, and has one last round coming in the next few weeks. If that fails she'll likely snap again. I know MIL just gave her $1K for "bills" despite the fact I'm still paying rent, and for a hotel. It's not safe for me to be around her while she continues to coach our son. She's likely to hurt herself or him and try to blame me.

I think I'll try and get them to do the intervention this week, and I'll submit in a couple days. I've got all of my friends and family praying that I succeed for the sake of our child. They're a lot more grounded on this than I am, as the hope tends to create unrealistic expectations. That's why I watch old videos, read my timeline, or other things to remind myself that I'm the victim. Despite everything she says and does.

BuckeyHusband
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 11:37:55 PM »

If you haven't heard anything about the latest allegation what do you think it means? Typically the cops might show up the same day. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 02:43:17 AM »

This thread is emotionally hard to read.  I filed an Emergency Order today.  I'll see how it goes.  All I can say is plan for the worst.  Have lots of plans and things in place in order to sooth your wife.  She will not be able to self sooth.  Her family is correct.  Wait until doctors are in place and everyone is safe from harm.  She will have a huge blowout.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 08:28:41 AM »

When you file the emergency order, what happens next?

Is there a scenario in which you file the motion, she is notified, then you two continue living together? I'm guessing you have worked through this, just trying to get a sense of how the contingency planning works for your situation.

The fear that she might attempt suicide is a painful one  I imagine it is why you are filing for legal separation and not divorce?

Maybe your L is already thinking this way, but just in case he isn't... .the most important thing I learned from my years in the family court system is to make sure you have a solution mindset. Always come to court with a proposed solution, including reasonable consequences for non-compliance. Don't expect the judge to be an all-knowing and wise owl.

Meaning, when you go before the judge, your L should present a reasonable proposal for how to resolve the problem of your wife being mentally unstable and dangerous to herself (and your son). Not all lawyers do that. Even with good ones, they feel no pain going back to court so you have to be the one closing the loopholes and making the most of your time before the judge.

Judges hate repeat customers 

Your solution might be, "My wife dysregulated in these ways: A, B, C. Here is the evidence. This is dangerous for my son. I want her to be safe, I want him to be safe, so I propose that she do X, Y, and Z. I will do these other things until day/date. If my wife cannot do XYZ by day/date, then I will do DEF."

"My client's wife made an attempt on her life last year. Here is documentation. We propose that she undergo a psychiatric evaluation (MMPI-2) and do inpatient treatment beginning tomorrow. In the meantime, my client requests an emergency order, and legal separation, until she has completed xx days, at which point we request another hearing to determine next steps."

That's a gross oversimplification. The point is that you are proposing the solution and asking the judge to consider whether it's reasonable. Instead of saying, "My client's wife attempted to take her life and is coaching the son to think people are molesting him. We need to do something to make sure the child is safe. We have a screenshot of a Facebook post where she talks about taking her life. My client needs to file for full custody temporarily and legally separate."

If that's what the judge gets, then he or she will say yes or no to the legal separation/emergency order, versus saying yes or no to the proposed solution (having her committed, or having her undergo a psychiatric evaluation, separating the two of you for a short period while she is evaluated, etc.).

I hope that makes sense. It seems like a nuance but it was everything in my case. It took me roughly 3 years to learn that, and when I did, things turned around. And my ex was fairly easy to document, so we had plenty of evidence. Family court judges seem to let people have five and six bites of the apple. You have to say, "We propose one bite of the apple, and then XYZ. If XYZ doesn't happen by day/date, then my client will do ABC."

I'm so sorry you're going through this

And I'm guessing, too, that your L has assessed the past addiction and has something prepared. "My client struggled with painkillers like many Americans affected this last decade. He is one of the successful cases, who went through treatment and has been free and clear for X years and is committed to being the best dad he can be. If your honor has any concerns, my client is more than willing to submit to random drug testing."

Or whatever. Maybe you don't even bring it up -- your L will probably have a strategy. You just want to make sure that any doubts your wife raises about your sobriety are addressed on your terms, not hers.

Being BPD, she will struggle to propose any solutions, and may be more likely to use court to settle scores. This is what judges see a lot of, so your solution mindset will stand out as a breath of fresh air.
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BuckeyHusband

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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 09:52:42 PM »

I am sorry that you are going through this as well AnuDay. I hope you are successful.

Livednlearned,
You're making me feel better about my attorney. We have a game plan in place with steps. There is a request for court ordered evaluation and counseling which makes any shared visitation conditional on that treatment. There are several specific requests. It was centered around DV, but after talking it over they'll make it more vague so that it is general mental health treatment.

She's been smart to avoid social media and stick to in person abuse and threats. She is very highly educated, with a MA in Psych/Counseling, which in a way makes her more dangerous. She knows what it takes to get a diagnosis, and the stigma (which has scared her away from counseling). I found a book titled "How to Change Anyone (subtitle: for the better)" in her night stand. I also found some misc. addiction books. I couldn't find it when I packed my stuff, but there was a specific line around sexual abuse that she's latched on to. Anything she can use to turn attention off of herself. When I spoke to her Sunday she even tried to imply that she saw "vomit" in the toilet... .I looked when I picked up mail the other day, and it was toilet bowl cleaner. Anything she can do to try and put attention off of herself and take no responsibility for her actions. She's an ardent Christian, and feels guilty about filing divorce. So I think part of this is to make herself "innocent" in God's eyes, by being the victim. Then it can justify her abusive behaviors in the past. 

My BIL asked that I remove the language tipping Family Intervention, as they aren't ready. It is just them, MIL and FIL haven't accepted it yet. The Psychologist didn't feel comfortable to assit, so I'm going to ask that they call her Psychiatrist and take this aggressive. They are concerned about my sons safety and have witnessed enough, enough that they are going to cut off her access to their children. The intervention just won't happen soon enough, so I need to just focus on what's best for our son through legal means.

I did see my doctor and have 2 years worth of drug screens. I go monthly and so I have a really excellent paper trail there. My doctor previously diagnosed his SIL with BPD, and watched her ruin his brother's life. He recommend that we nudge the Psychiatrist to make a formal diagnosis. Without that, it's going to be easy for her to bounce from therapist to therapist avoiding it.

I'm going to submit paperwork tomorrow, and should expect a hearing in 2 weeks. They don't feel we have strong enough violence to warrant immediate. Given we live in a top 5 major city, they are used to seeing seriously drug infested situations with extreme violence (ff she has been safe at home with him most days, then I can wait 2 weeks).

I'm hoping that when we serve her the paperwork it will trigger a rock bottom and they can use that as an intervention point. We really need a doctor with us to advise through the situation, but hers seems scared and the other we call didn't feel comfortable. I think we'll coordinate her getting served with the entire family's presence. I see that as our best case scenario for an intervention.

Any thoughts on getting an expert to help assist the family?
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 07:48:57 AM »

Any thoughts on getting an expert to help assist the family?

By assisting the family, do you mean assisting your wife... .?

Somewhat related, it's probably a good idea to talk to your family about a crisis safety plan for your wife, if you haven't already.

There are some good materials out there, and one here that might be useful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272865.msg12579850#msg12579850
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2018, 05:11:46 PM »

My ex would never Let Go of anything that she felt she could hold against me.  Feelings and perceptions equaled fact in her rewriting of History.  The same complaints came up over and over again, no matter how many times I apologized.  (Warning about apologies... .she will try to get you to apologize for things you never did.  Be sure your apologies, if any, are for how she feels and not that you actually did anything wrong.  Going forward you ought to have a boundary not to even get into interrogations, demands, etc.  You'll need to do that at some point, may as well start that boundary now.

I too faced many allegations, once she even tried to get an Amber Alert declared (for a vacation).  I had a long list of professionals she tried to sell her claims to.  As much as it hurt, they did have to follow through and determine whether they could substantiate it.  But despite multiple "unsubstantiated" allegations they still continued to investigate any serious ones.  That hurt.  I'm years past that, so the worst is over for me.  I recall when we were last in court, her lawyer asked for the magistrate (and GAL) to have an in camera interview with our by then 11 year old.  No details were ever put in the decision but the magistrate noted that our son was more relaxed and had better eye contact when they were talking about me.  Subtle nuances like that will mean a lot to the trained professional.

Likely you will have to get a Custody Evaluation during the process.  It takes months but is in depth and the expert evaluator will make recommendations about custody and a parenting schedule.  If she's been prepping the child, that's a big no-no.  It may never be proven exactly what she's been doing but that's why you must ensure you have an evaluator with a solid reputation trusted by your lawyer and the court, not just any evaluator will be up to the task!

From some of the reports on custody evaluations here, an evaluator can make (discerning and experienced) or break (inept or biased) a case.
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2018, 09:43:15 PM »

News:
My emergency order was not approved today, but they did approve the expedited request and set a hearing date for Aug 15th. She is going to hear about it one way or another.

I'm going to share the emergency plan with her family. If she doesn't get the job offer, and finds out that I'm trying to get full custody and a psychiatric order - it will be a perfect storm... .

SIL/BIL are hesitant to approach my wife with all of the resources we've gathered on BPD without some sort of professional counsel. Is it even the best approach? Is it better for just the two of them, or just SIL to talk to her - or to get the entire family?  That would take more time and be slow going. Plus, there's a good chance my wife might finally get a decent job offer, which is what MIL has used to deflect ("She just needs a job.".

I have pages of notes and quotes going over each of the criteria, and others on ones that we were overlooking (reckless driving for instance, 7-8 accidents since 2014, and half of those with our son in the car). Over the last 2 years she's self diagnosed herself, a little at a time. It's just that no one compares notes ["I don't even know who I am anymore." - "You know I can't handle being by myself." - "You know I have body dysphoria" - "I don't remember what I did last night when I was upset" - "You know I have abandonment issues" - "If it weren't for (friends name), I wouldn't be alive (they've known eachother weeks)" - "Sometimes I have suicidal thoughts" - "I'm scared, I feel empty inside. I keep crying out for help but my family just avoids me" - "If I'm not dressed up people don't like me"].

I was thinking a family intervention prepared with my notes might force her to face it. My sister, Mom, Dad, SIL, BIL, and at times MIL have come to the same conclusion. She even suspects it, but when faced with her own issues she deflects to these false allegations. It's her nuclear button... .

I'm worried about the next 3 weeks. If something tips, he's all alone. I'm going to try and setup wellness checks with CPS and the Sheriff's Dept.
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2018, 08:54:46 AM »

Is he alone with her right now?

Sorry if I missed that somewhere.

Do any of the psychologists you've talked to recommend an intervention for someone with BPD?
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2018, 02:02:13 PM »

Understand that in a court hearing, behaviors generally count more than a diagnostic label.  The court will try to determine whether any poor behaviors are sufficiently 'actionable'.  The judge or magistrate is generally a lawyer and not a therapist, psychologist or counselor.  So the judge may say, "Let's keep this case open while we refer this to Mr Psychologist or Ms Therapist and find out if there is a recommendation."

Yes, with us you can 'Play Doctor' but in most cases it takes a trained professional to diagnose anyone.  And most of us here don't even get a diagnosis, the professionals just make recommendations.  Their goal is not to fix but to deal with What Is.  (Same with you, if after years your spouse has not gotten better but likely even worse, you can't fix your spouse either.  You too deal with What Is.)  You, the interested party whose life and parenting hang in the balance, are often set to the sidelines and relegated to providing documentation of incidents, etc.

If in the past she has been in therapy or has been checked in for mental health evaluation, then you might get a diagnosis.  My conclusion is that courts generally don't want to make a parent, especially a mother, look bad unless it's unavoidable.

Let's use a simple analogy and basic aspects.  Take alcoholism.  You can claim, "My spouse is an alcoholic!"  Court will wonder whether she might be a dry alcoholic, that is, has avoided alcohol for a while.  Or whether the person indulges in private or doesn't abuse while drinking.  In either case the court won't see it as very actionable.  But if your spouse would drink and rage or drive with the kids while intoxicated, that would be actionable.  See the difference?  Judges will probably let lesser infractions, especially ones not involving the children, slide by.
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2018, 06:29:32 PM »

If she doesn't get the job offer, and finds out that I'm trying to get full custody and a psychiatric order - it will be a perfect storm... .

What is your best guess for how things will go if this occurs?

For many of us, with this level of high-wire act/crisis, the best way forward was to lock onto values and go from there.

It is all but impossible to control all of the outcomes, and to be candid, sometimes people need to free fall and hit rock bottom (her, not you). The concern is making sure she is as safe as possible when/if that happens.

People can surprise you. I thought my ex hit rock bottom when he woke up in his own feces after a heavy night of drinking. He had smeared his own poop on the curtains, the laundry, the carpet, his clothing, himself. He made it seem like waking up like that was a thing people did, and then raged at me for overreacting when I expressed difficulty breathing while standing in the room, stunned.

Maybe the reason he didn't hit rock bottom is that I cleaned it for him, and made sure our son didn't see his dad like that. I'll never know. I look back on what I did and wonder who was the one with the bigger issues, me or him. 

One of the best things we can do is put our codependency in check, altho I know that's a nail biter when SI is on the radar. It really is a high-wire act.

I commend you for your strength in moving forward. It's not for the weak, this.

You mention her nuclear button is the false allegations. My sense is that you will be facing more soon, best to focus on your own protection and let SIL and BIL take care of her, hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

A good rule of thumb is to start keeping all of your receipts. Anything to timestamp your whereabouts. Find out if you live in a one-party consent state in case you need to record anything, take pictures of yourself at places with time stamps, keep everything safe and secure and backed up.

And hang in there. It will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. You are preparing in advance and that can go a long, long way in your favor.
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2018, 09:36:45 PM »

She is alone with him. The only thing I know, is she got served yesterday and  had a flat tire 40 minutes from the house in the city (at 8pm). Not sure what she was doing. When she's upset, she often gets in accidents (with our son in the backseat too). My guess is she hit a curb and didn't just get a flat by accident. I'm hoping she was on her way home from the Psychiatrist, but who knows at this point.

No response from the Sheriff on my wellness check. No response from CPS. Family is all out of town, and it isn't safe for me to be there. Good news is MIL and Step FIL decided to cut off their trip out of state and return home. If it is bad enough to cutoff an out of state trip, then hopefully it is enough to shake MIL out of her denial.

SIL left the area for the weekend with her kids, which may have been on purpose. Her own therapist advises her not to rescue her sister, but if they aren't safe to be around her with their kids - you can imagine how I feel. Psychiatrist even advised me from having hope, and wondered why I wasn't filing divorce if it is at this point (I kept going even after she bailed just to have someone to talk to, someone that knew her issues). I'm not anymore. His hope is that she'll feel safe to open up and he can then treat her, but I could tell he was afraid of her.

Good advise on time stamps. I'll start taking selfies with a location/time stamp as proof. I'm torn because it isn't safe for me to be around her while she coaches our son, forces confessions out of a toddler, and films it. Plus, I've seen her hurt herself enough times and try to blame it on me (like hitting me and then when she hurts her hand, saying it was my fault). That's why I fled the house.

I'm hoping that her family can come together on this, but am setting realistic expectations (that it will be the courts and not family to intervene). Like I said, I reached out when she was seriously suicidal and MIL didn't even stop golfing. I may need to call the Sheriff Department again if I don't hear back tomorrow... .

In regard to court, I have a timeline with dates from when she assaulted me in front of our son, broke glass, and others. Too many details in fact, that a lot were left out of the filing. I'll have a letter from my Doctor and drug tests proving sobriety, and I also have a polygraph test from last time.

She'll try to come forward with false allegations without proof (child sex abuse being her favorite, but hiding money, infidelity, child abuse, theft, etc.), but I have proof. I'm kind of hoping she can expose herself in the courtroom under the stress.

I'm doing OK really though. Things are so clear now. I really get why people say "Out of the Fog". It's like I'm standing back on Earth again after having been in orbit the last 5+ years.

Thanks,
BuckeyHusband
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2018, 07:57:32 AM »

I'm kind of hoping she can expose herself in the courtroom under the stress.

If she has a lawyer representing her, it could take a while to see this.

Early in my case, we did a deposition. Sometimes lawyers use depositions to get a feel for how credible their client, or the opposing client, will be in court.

In my case, I was impeccable if I do say so myself  

My ex is a former trial attorney and spent the first 10 minutes bragging about how many depositions he had done. Then he fell apart in the deposition, going in circles, contradicting himself, saying he quit drinking and then admitting he drank the night before.

He was so all over the place that his own L eventually withdrew, based on that deposition. Ex then represented himself. He cross-examined me on the witness stand   and then my L cross-examined him. That's when some of the worst dysregulation happened (psychosis). It was awful to watch, tbh but it did alert the judge to the extent of his mental illness.

All of this costs money, of course. But you are investing in your child's future. I tell myself it was the best money I ever spent.
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 08:14:57 PM »

Hello,
Just providing a little update. I had a bit of a mad scramble to find funds to cover July. I was advised to send info as it came in, and then charged accordingly for not having bundled. It probably cost an extra $1,000... .

My guess is my wife will use my savings that she transferred into her personal account to hire an attorney for herself, but after that she will only have access to funds if she is able to get a job. Things are relatively quiet as I prep for court.

The only feedback is that CPS did do an interview with her (I'm not sure if it was based on my call, or one she did on her own. Either way, it didn't turn out the way she had hoped). It sounds like the CPS investigator interviewed my son and was able to see through the coaching. Given that I have never abused him in any way, and she has been verbally and at times physical with him, I'm hoping they were able to glean some truth.

We are evaluating the confidence of my attorney that I will get awarded sole custody and domestic rights this month. If it isn't approved, my BIL/SIL and I fear that it would cause more harm than having done nothing. We're all afraid for him to be alone with her. I know it isn't safe for my nieces to be around her, even us adults aren't save under these conditions.

Two questions:
Does anyone have experience with counter investigations, either one triggered by a distortion campaign by a BPD spouse, or one you've begun yourself? It will be important that our son is looked at by someone skilled and experienced in child abuse. Her psychiatrist had comforted me that a skilled investigator will be able to see through the coaching quite quickly. The key is that these are able to be completed prior to my emergency custody hearing.

Does anyone have experience with maintaining contact with a child during custody/emergency custody disputes when you aren't in custody of the child? I perform daily check ins via email, and have asked for a supervised video chat. My SIL didn't want her family around her sister (my wife), and my MIL typically avoids her. I've asked an old friend to come with me so that I have a confident witness should she make threats or attempt more blame, but he's unwilling to expose his children to her either. I need to maintain contact for my son's sake, but I'm not sure how that looks to the court. She has generally prevented me from having contact with him.

Thanks,
BuckeyeHusband
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kells76
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2018, 10:14:47 AM »

Hi BuckeyeHusband, glad you were able to update us. Sounds like there are some potentially positive things happening for you and your son:

Excerpt
It sounds like the CPS investigator interviewed my son and was able to see through the coaching.

It can be very validating when third party professionals see what you see. That's good that CPS noticed what Mom was doing.

Excerpt
We are evaluating the confidence of my attorney that I will get awarded sole custody and domestic rights this month. If it isn't approved, my BIL/SIL and I fear that it would cause more harm than having done nothing.

Can you describe some of the harm you're concerned would happen if you make the pitch for sole custody and it doesn't happen? Are you thinking she would blow up, retaliate, leave... .?

Excerpt
We're all afraid for him to be alone with her.

Remind me where you're at in preparing legal docs, because you may be able to address this in your proposal in a problem-solving kind of way. I know LivedNLearned has made good suggestions about the verbiage of proposing parenting time for a disordered parent without it looking like you're vindictive and out to cut them out of your kid's life, but while still having some really safe boundaries for your kid. It might involve proposing one (or both of you) complete some type of parenting class, therapy, anger management, or whatever, with professional documentation. Or that one (or both) of you stay in family counseling for X sessions, or until the T decides you're good. Something where you are totally capable of doing it, but Mom might dysregulate under the requirements and not meet them (and therefore not get unsupervised time with Son until she does). That way the responsibility for being alone with Son is on her, not you.

Excerpt
Does anyone have experience with counter investigations... .

I haven't but look up member SES's posts. I can't remember specifically, but member Thunderstruck might also have some experience with CPS stuff, though she also had a horrible CE experience.

Excerpt
Does anyone have experience with maintaining contact with a child... .

Document, document, document. Every time you try to call and talk with your kid and are told "He doesn't want to talk to you"... .document. Can you get a call recording app on your phone? Email to set up a time to FaceTime or talk. Keep reply emails saying "you're horrible, the kids hate you, no way, blah blah blah".

Excerpt
I perform daily check ins via email, and have asked for a supervised video chat.

Awesome. Good job. Document any refusals. Can you also send... .ummm... .what is it... .delivery confirmation stuff in the mail? Cards, notes, letters to your son?

Excerpt
I've asked an old friend to come with me so that I have a confident witness should she make threats or attempt more blame, but he's unwilling to expose his children to her either.

If your state is a one-party consent state, consider what member david did and just record yourself at pickups/dropoffs. Start the recording when it's just you, and say you are only recording yourself. Keep any video pointed in your direction, and keep it low-key. If she happens to yell or abuse or berate or attack, and it gets "caught" on the "recording of you", well, you didn't try to record her. You can do just audio, too.

Excerpt
I need to maintain contact for my son's sake, but I'm not sure how that looks to the court. She has generally prevented me from having contact with him.

I would suspect that documented once-a-day attempts at contact (i.e., no blowing up her phone with 28 texts in 5 minutes) would come across as appropriately concerned.

You're in a tough time. I'm really sorry she's keeping your son away from you -- that's ugly stuff. Do your best to keep trying to get in touch with him while you wait, documenting your efforts. Check in with your L on any tweaks to your documentation strategy that you might need.

Hang in there... .it's a long road, but there can be light at the end.

kells76
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2018, 11:25:02 AM »

Hello,
It has been a rough couple weeks since the hearing.

Results:
-Due to the gravity of her allegations, she gets sole custody and I have 2 hours supervised per week.
-She has mandatory weekly counseling with her existing psychiatrist
-She has mandatory 2 hour check ins from her mother (the judge asked how often, and when MIL said 2 hours 1 day a week the judge actually scoffed. It will be obvious MIL is also afraid or uncomfortable being around her daughter).
-She has mandatory weekly check ins from the court appointed adviser
-She gets the house because she "paid the deposit", she didn't pay any bills and hasn't sought work in nearly a year
-All expenses are shared (great news too because it shows the judge didn't just immediately buy her false child abuse allegations)
-Judge formally warned there will be consequences if her allegations were false, or if my statement of untreated mental health issues were in retaliation. This is really good news because I have lots of proof. She's just been coaching our son, and it sounds like CPS was able to see through it during their interview with him.

She also did a few other false allegations about me drinking and doing drugs. I did a same day drug test, which will just further go to show she has distorted reality and is making tons of false allegations in order to get the upper hand.

Thanks,
BuckeyeHusband
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2018, 11:54:28 AM »

It sounds like this is a temporary order, and that you will be filing for a modification?

Or does CPS have to go through with a formal investigation and then you go back before the judge?
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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2018, 03:49:50 PM »

These are temporary orders following my petition for emergency custody. The full hearing is in October.

I was advised to get a defense attorney because all of my documents are only shared with Family Court and CPS/Police won't see them. So they're going to take everything I have and put it into a packet for CPS. Then once that's closed they'll send it to the police. The point is to have a coverletter on the top of her file so that next time she does it they'll say "Oh no, she's at it again". Offer me and my son protection.

Once those are closed, we may try a settlement wherein she goes to mandatory inpatient and I take over primary residential duties. She isn't likely to agree to anything, but if she has the weight of repeated false allegations related to legal separation over her head who knows.

She did this last year. She filed legal separation in March of 2017, and when I didn't agree with her draconian terms she got back into false allegations and false reports.

In June this year she told me she wanted divorce, and then within a week our 3 YO son was saying I touched him, she had filed a police report, and she had sent me and my step-mom a text saying she was filing divorce.

It should be fairly obvious. Oh ya, she's also asking for ALL of my money. Literally. When you add alimony and the child support calculation, it is my entire income... .
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 08:38:58 PM »

Generally, supervised visitation signifies one of two scenarios:

  • There have been allegations and the court, in an abundance of caution, orders supervised visitation until professionals (CPS investigators, evaluator, psychologist, etc) can report to the court their findings or recommendations.  Usually this is completed within a few weeks.
  • You have been 'found' to be a substantive risk to the child (abuse, endangerment, neglect) and the supervision is for more or less an indefinite time line unless you meet specified targets.

Your situation is the first scenario.  However, I am surprised the full hearing isn't for another 6-8 weeks.  When my ex filed her ex parte allegations and got her 'protection' order for herself and our then-preschooler, a hearing was scheduled a couple weeks later.  The CPS investigator stood up and stated they had "no concerns" about me.

Time will tell whether your spouse will get consequences for her allegations.  Often it just goes away as 'unsubstantiated' and the accuser is free to walk out and file more allegations later.  Eventually the person has weakened credibility, but it usually takes several failed allegation attempts.  At least, that was my case.  Good that "Judge formally warned there will be consequences if her allegations were false, or if my statement of untreated mental health issues were in retaliation."  Will your lawyer hold the judge's feet to the fire to rectify the consequences of you being unfairly restricted to limited supervised visits?  Odds are the judge will just move on, at least, that's what my court did.
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« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2018, 09:17:06 PM »

My attorney is fairly familiar with the judge, and stated she tends to tip her hand. Since she ordered 3 days worth of check ins/therapy it was a sign that she didn't just buy the allegations, but due to the gravity of them she had to take it seriously. Yes, these are all temporary orders. I don't know if she pushed it out so far to allow the investigations to complete or what.

My attorney was really happy to hear her warning, it and sounded like she would take it very seriously.

That's why I was happy when my wife pushed for drug tests. I have 2 years of drug screens from my medical opiod replacement program, but those just aren't good enough right? I'm some mastermind that tricks everyone (in her mind).

My wife in her response admitted to the suicidal events and many of her manic episodes, but when I listed her domestic violence incidences in front of our son she denied them. She instead accused me of emotional and psychological abuse including "gasslighting" her.

The problem is her allegations are currently open with the police and possibly CPS. Granted, I had called them when I knew she was alone but I don't think they were investigating her since they never called me back.

When you add in her consistent false allegations of abuse, theft, stealing money, cheating with other women, being homosexual, doing drugs, etc - and add in she's asking for literally all of my money; I'm hoping the judge can come done heavily in my favor. First we can get our son into a safe environment, and at that point we could probably get her into therapy and on the road to being healthy for our son.

BuckeyHusband
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« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 09:45:25 PM »

There is no way she can get all your money.  There are formulas and all of them ensure the payer has enough to live on.

By the way, a good policy is to always have the stance that you want your spouse to have her own income, her own job or career.  After all, once the marriage is ended, how will she support herself?  Child support is intended to supplement her child-related expenses, not provide her income.  These days even alimony is becoming considered more as transitional assistance as the financially disadvantaged spouse exits the marriage.  In addition to saying you advocate her finding a job, ask that any child support or spousal support calculations include what she could earn if employed.  That is called imputed income.  That may give her added incentive to find a job.

You have raised the mental health issue with court.  Be careful that you don't let her lawyer use it to claim she can't work, that is, is "disabled".  Remember, she's worked in the past.  She can work again.  It's her parenting that is your big concern.
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« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2018, 01:34:10 AM »

This is sad. Sorry to hear things aren't going your way in court.  Keep us updated.
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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2018, 07:07:40 PM »

So I had my first supervised visit with my 3yo yesterday. When he first saw me (after 2 months now) he was a little shy, but a few seconds later ran up and jumped into my arms for a long hug. We had a great time together. It was pretty sad when he was asking when I was coming home, that he wanted me to come home, or where I lived. It should have been obvious to the supervisor that he isn't actually afraid of me or sees me as a "bad man".

I also met briefly with the detective along with my attorney. The detective was young and seemed pretty open minded. He doesn't really have much other than whatever my wife reported and a video where she coached my son and recorded. He wasn't aware of her past history of accusations during separation/custody disputes. If necessary, we'll give him the packet of docs the family court has. Hopefully he'll close it without further hoopla, but it doesn't sound like it will be closed before our full hearing in October.

Question or advise:
A child play therapist reached out who is seeing our son. She is going to report her findings and work with mom/dad to the court adviser. I have serious concerns (coaching, alienation, enmeshment, her DV, parentification control over his bodily functions, etc.) but neither of my attorneys have really given me any advise in how to approach. Anything I share isn't confidential from Mom. The family law attorney deferred to the defense attorney since I have to get the investigation closed before anything changes, and the defense attorney hasn't made much advise on the family law side.

Splitting says not to mention BPD, but he's been through a lot. And my disappearance several times in his short life due to my wife's actions have to be traumatic.

Thanks,
BuckeyHusband
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2018, 07:38:54 PM »

I'm doing a quick drive by and don't have as much time to post as I'd like, so apologies for the hurried response.

This article by Dr. Craig Childress is excellent at addressing your question -- jujitsu parenting.

If you google his name and jujitsu you should find it in the top search results.
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 04:12:52 PM »

There are a few reasons to be cautious about "shouting 'BPD!' from the rooftops", metaphorically.  For one, we're not doctors and the professionals don't like us to Play Doctor (pun).  Hey, even if you were a doctor, your relationship is too close (family) for you to be your spouse or ex's doctor.  Yes, you've seen the behaviors close up but that is largely ignored.

Another reason is that courts and their associated professionals seem to studiously avoid diagnostic labels.  (More serious cases, such as murder, are more likely to get a diagnosis then ours, so it appears.)  Still, if you do get a diagnosis then include it in your documentation and strategies.

What a diagnosis typically doesn't say is how that impacts the children or the person's parenting.  Most will typically pay more attention to the parenting behaviors.  Adult behaviors, such as between you and the ex, also may carry some weight in the legal struggles.

I recall my custody evaluator telling me at our first session, "I'm not here to provide a diagnosis, I report to the court my recommendations for custody matters and parenting schedules."  However, despite his disclaimer, his initial report was concise (about 11 pages), perceptive and yes a little too hopeful.  It did include, "If Shared Parenting is tried and fails then Father should get custody."  The problem was that later by the time I went back to court and went through all the preliminary steps, then the magistrate ruled that report was 'stale' or outdated and therefore ignored.
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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2018, 02:57:43 PM »

Thank you for the advice and references, have been really helpful.

A few updates:
She's continued to be very difficult and high conflict, but "Splitting" has left me really prepared. After each of my 2 hour supervised visits with our son, she ends up sending an email about some "injury" he supposedly got. He fell at the playground the 2nd visit, and after the 3rd she sent me pics of some scratch. Funny how he had to get liquid stitches in his chin with her, but the repeated insinuations that I'm not attentive are getting old. It's that feeling like she's winning, getting to make me out as the dangerous one that is really getting tiresome.

She is still stalling on coordinating pickup of my stuff. She is trying to push it out over a month because she is busy and it isn't convenient. I tried to get my SIL/BIL to watch our 3yo, but they're uncomfortable/afraid to be around him while she's making all of these false accusations again.

OK, my attorneys aren't being very helpful on this. I had a Court Appointed Adviser that is supposed to gather all of the details and make a recommendation. Until the abuse investigation is closed I'm not supposed to speak about my wife's various false allegations, or anything involving the case. This is going to make it very difficult to do my interview with the adviser.

I would like to go through all of her issues, like the manic episodes, black outs, paranoia, self harm, etc. These aren't related to the case so I would think I can share right? I know I'm supposed to stick to her actions and not do diagnosis. Would it be OK to share all of her self diagnosed issues? "She told me she has OCD, PTSD, ADHD, body dismorphia... ."?

Two Questions the adviser lists that I was hoping for help with:
1. List ways in which the children benefit from their relationship with you. - My thinking is I would need to stick to positives about myself and stay about from stuff like "Mother experiences violent verbal and physical outbursts and is safest with me", and instead say something like "I provide a safe and structured environment for name, and foster age appropriate independence. I am verbally encouraging and support his independence, and am patient with kids having been the eldest"

2. List any concerns about the other parent's ability to care for the children: Not sure what to do here... .

There are other checkboxes, all of which are true and Severe on her part against me (often in front of the child).
Have any of the following occurred between you and the other parent? Mild, Moderate, Severe
  • Verbal confrontation
    Physical confrontation
    Violence to property
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