Is it always the right decision to stay in NC?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello BPD Family,
that was a long journey for me after our "break-up" in January. After barely surviving my PTSD and several depressions after the break-up, I constantly thought about her, but overall I was just doing fine. New job perspectives, better relationship with my friends than ever, felt sometimes invincible and really happy and my hobbies went well too.
But... .
That does not mean that I don't miss my ex terribly. Yes, what she has done to me, is unforgettable and unforgivable, but sometimes I wish, I could have her back in my life. Well I had lots of chances in the last two months.

She contacted me two days after a break-up of hers, because she needed my help with an job application. I ignored it. Than she posted a story on Instagram. She saw that I checked it out, posted two more on the next two days and then blocked me outta nowhere. I was hurt and then I bumped into her a week after and she did not look at me and avoided eye contact, but has that crazy smirk, like she needed to held her laugh back. Well funny thing is that two days later she unblocked me, then posted a new story after never posting anything since getting me blocked. After I checked it out she wrote me, why I would be checking it out. I ignored her. She then posted a new story and told me she knew that I read her message. I ignored her again. And if those were not enough chances to get back in touch with her, I did not send her a Happy Birthday Text. As expected she posted two stories on Instagram to remind me that it is her birthday, but no.

I feel really confused at the moment after I saw her again a few hours ago. I guess it is right, what I am doing. But how do I know it, because it does not feel right, especially after seeing her, it is hard to stay NC and ignoring her. How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now? And what would happen, if I ended the NC? Has anyone out there met their uPwBPD-Ex and they have changed or had good lives without us?
The hardest thing is I think I want to go back, but I must not. My friends would kill me, I would lose my self respect,  but still after months of NC, I still miss her with every part of my body. Help please.

[guilttripped9000]

Hello BPD Family,
that was a long journey for me after our "break-up" in January. After barely surviving my PTSD and several depressions after the break-up, I constantly thought about her, but overall I was just doing fine. New job perspectives, better relationship with my friends than ever, felt sometimes invincible and really happy and my hobbies went well too.
But... .
That does not mean that I don't miss my ex terribly. Yes, what she has done to me, is unforgettable and unforgivable, but sometimes I wish, I could have her back in my life. Well I had lots of chances in the last two months.

She contacted me two days after a break-up of hers, because she needed my help with an job application. I ignored it. Than she posted a story on Instagram. She saw that I checked it out, posted two more on the next two days and then blocked me outta nowhere. I was hurt and then I bumped into her a week after and she did not look at me and avoided eye contact, but has that crazy smirk, like she needed to held her laugh back. Well funny thing is that two days later she unblocked me, then posted a new story after never posting anything since getting me blocked. After I checked it out she wrote me, why I would be checking it out. I ignored her. She then posted a new story and told me she knew that I read her message. I ignored her again. And if those were not enough chances to get back in touch with her, I did not send her a Happy Birthday Text. As expected she posted two stories on Instagram to remind me that it is her birthday, but no.

I feel really confused at the moment after I saw her again a few hours ago. I guess it is right, what I am doing. But how do I know it, because it does not feel right, especially after seeing her, it is hard to stay NC and ignoring her. How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now? And what would happen, if I ended the NC? Has anyone out there met their uPwBPD-Ex and they have changed or had good lives without us?
The hardest thing is I think I want to go back, but I must not. My friends would kill me, I would lose my self respect,  but still after months of NC, I still miss her with every part of my body. Help please.

[Skip]

I really encourage you to do a relationship postmortem here, work through detachment an relationship recovery. Invest the time in yourself.

When I look at this thing from 35,000 ft there is a lot of emotional immaturity. See was certainly emotionally immature in the relationship. This most recent game of tag with Instagram and text messages in kinda silly for adults.

It happens. It's important to work on it.

1. Detachment is the objective. NC is a 6 week or so tool to help the beginning of the process.  You are not detached. It's not the end of the world, but don't place value on NC. Place value on detachment.

2. The person you described in your first post is who she is. You might have enabled some of that, but she is who she is.

3. She is just coming out of a relationship so she (like anyone) is looking for ways to fill the void. See it for what it is. She may also miss you.

Is no contact essential? No. Having some controlled contact is often a way to get to detachment. You will see things you didn't notice before and that often helps us release.

You can exchange a few texts. Talk to her. Just keep you wits about you. She's just a girl.

Make sense?

[Chitchat]

'How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now?'

Because she had 'that crazy smirk'?

[BeagleGirl]

guilttripped,

I'm sorry this is so hard. 

I agree with Skip that NC is a great tool to start the detachment process, but ultimately detachment should make NC less necessary. 

I did a month of NC at the beginning of my separation from dBPDxh and that helped me get my emotions dialed down a bit, but sharing custody of kids makes it impossible to stay NC.  I found myself initiating interaction off and on.  At the time I don't think I fully realized what I was doing, but after about 6 months it dawned on me that I was "taking his temperature".  I would initiate interaction hoping to see some sign that he was changing, or willing to change, or at least recognizing that he would need to change.  As those interactions kept reinforcing that there was no change I needed them less frequently. 

One other observation/comment - NC is something YOU manage.  It sounds like you are doing a great job at not responding to her communications, but I think that true NC would mean you not leaving yourself as open to those communications.  I would suggest that you close off ALL avenues of communication that you can for a time.  That means not viewing her on social media.  You are allowing her to send messages to you through what she posts, etc and she knows it.  You may want to give full NC a shot for a few weeks.

BG

[patientandclear]

There is also no duty to remain in contact. I stayed in touch with my ex for years after an initial 9 month NC period. Throughout our contact he exploited our connection for emotional payoff for him and created an extremely unequal emotional dynamic, where I was there for him always, and he was there for me whenever he felt like it. I developed some skills to identify and handle this — but what did I have at the end of that process? And exploitative unequal relationship that I was constantly having to police and could never put my weight on and trust.

Two years ago I reached the point of seeing that contact meant at best an exhausting continual struggle in which he pretended to offer a real connection and I attempted to reply in kind and he treated me poorly and I used boundaries and he reacted poorly to boundaries and we went through a protracted separation and he regretted the loss and the cycle repeated without learning or progress. I don’t need this — this guy captured much of my available emotional energy and the fundamental dynamics were very clear. I’m not in contact now. There was no way of being in contact with this particular person and achieving detachment. He works full time at undermining my detachment and I don’t want to work full time at maintaining it. I need 0% of my life to be about him, and NC with this particular person is the only way. Incidentally all the other women who survive intimate connection with this person reach the same conclusion. I am not so special that the stance everyone else has required for healing doesn’t apply to me. Trying to be special in that way is itself unhealthy and anti-detachment. Etc.

I offer all this to say that, while NC is not the same as detachment and shouldn’t be fetishized in itself, for some relationships and some people, there may be no way to remain in contact and maintain detachment. It really depends on your unique circumstances and the particular dynamics with the other person. I recommend not using generic rules and centering on what it will take for you to be able to focus nearly entirely on other topics.

[guilttripped9000]

First thanks to everyone, who replied to me!It means the world to me talking to people who can relate to my topic.
I did think a lot about your opinions and I felt better. I think, what really held me back were exactly my thought that NC is the Goal, but NC should just be a kind of vehicle, which is driving me out of this mess to my destination of freedom. And yes, it is time to delete and block everything, it won't do me any good.

@patientandclea: How did you found out that all These women came to the same conclusion, did you ask them out or how? Planning something like this, especially after an interesting conversation friday night.
Eventhough I did not contact her, I met the latest "best friend" of hers. He said that she has no a FwB with a guy, who she had contact with while being with me, but she always told me, how she is not her type, he is too short, from Turkey (her parents are against an islamic guy) and she did not like stubble. Well and guess what? She has 2-4 other guys besides him: One of them was her first love, whom she did not want to see ever again and who was an ass and betrayed her. But now she seems to miss him so hard, but as she had the Chance to sleep over at his house, she declined: What the heck.
Well, if that was not enough, I was too thin for her, I am an Psycho because of checking out her Instagram Stories and she said I would shop in a supermarket more often since she works there. The supermarket is the nearest and I was there two times in 3 months, WTH? I tried not to go in there, because I do not want to see her again, Jesus.
Ah and before I forget it: The guy I met on friday was her "best friend" after just a month. But after she badmouthed about him with his brother, he drove away angrily and since then they have no contact :D And she always tried to make him jealous telling about him what shes doing with other guys and telling him about how cute nearlay everybody looks :D
Are you having a laugh, Ladies and Gentlemen?

But please tell me one thing: How does it come  that she misses her first love so much and why does she ___s that dude from Turkey? She said about them that she did not like them (anymore). What does that mean? Did she always love her first love and I was just there to help her getting over it? What was real, what is he having that I don't have. Why him not me? Can she really love with all her heart and whole and only see the positives in him over a period of two years? She did not talk that bad about  him overall.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP!THANK YOU, MASSIVE THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
     

[steelwork]

Throughout our contact he exploited our connection for emotional payoff for him and created an extremely unequal emotional dynamic, where I was there for him always, and he was there for me whenever he felt like it.

patientandclear, thanks for this.

I'm in a situation now where there has been three years of non-contact, and I can feel the pull to reach out to him, but I suspect this would be the result--just based on the way things were at the end.

I am not so special that the stance everyone else has required for healing doesn’t apply to me. Trying to be special in that way is itself unhealthy and anti-detachment. Etc.

Yep. I've held to the notion that dealing with eccentric, out-of-control people is my superpower. Even if it were true, what a lousy superpower.

[XSurvivorX]

Hi guilttripped,

How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now?

Um... .I don't know you or her (aside from what you've posted here) but - my gut would tell me that if she approached you apologetically, explaining she's had time time to contemplate and think, and she would like to offer some apologies to you, or explained that there are a number of things that she wanted to work on in order to try and rekindle your formal romance... .Barring that, and as you've described... .

How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now?

That's your inner hope talking.  Its OK to have hope, but my friend, the charade of blocking/unblocking... .does it sound to you like anything has changed? At all?

I like how patientandclear put it - you have no further obligation to remain in contact, help with job applications, etc.  Exploitation - that is what you do not want.  Even if you still love and miss her, why subject yourself to being exploited again. NC is indeed a great vehicle that helps you remove yourself from the harmful situation and points you back in the direction of healing and health.

I know its hard guilttripped, but trying to look back and compare who she loved and when or with what intensity and what was it all real - its going to drive you mad. Its trying to make sense of the illogical. The emotional instability and immaturity may mean that she isn't even sure what love really is. At least not compared to how you and I may view love. 

Look after yourself - think about what is going to be best for you three months, six months, and even a year from now.

[once removed]

no contact can create a lot of anxiety for one or both parties.

when we are on the receiving end, often times we call it silent treatment, feel as if we dont exist, feel as if we are being punished. we often send multiple communications trying to get over that barrier. we often beg for closure. our exes can be prone to all of this too. its a rigid, sometimes necessary tool, that hurts to be on the receiving end of, often hurts to initiate as well.

when its initiated by us, we often speak about the "power" it gives us. we often take note when our ex reaches out to try to get over that barrier. frequently, we wind up responding, even recycling the relationship.

so, its important to know theres actually a pretty high rate of failure. why? for many reasons, most of which apply to both parties, and human beings in general, not just our partners.

first is that the other party has heightened abandonment fears. so a sudden, hard and fast cut off may escalate things in a marked way; anything to the more common series of messages/calls, efforts to get attention, to the less common but more extreme of physical threats, suicide threats, stalking behaviors. all of this can create an added burden on our detaching.

the second reason is we often have abandonment fears of our own, so all of the above may apply to us as well. even with the purest of motives, clearest of goals, and healthiest possible approach, its going to hurt. when i finally closed the last door, it was when i really first began to grieve, and i went into a deep depression. it was a necessary step that took me a while to reach, and even then i wasnt fully prepared.

third is a matter of dubious intent. when no contact is a power play, a message to send, a punishment, a way to get our way, even a means to get someone back, the rate of failure is really high.

no contact can be a good working tool as a part of detachment if we are clear on what we are doing, if our motivation is to detach, if the approach is more about taking the necessary space to heal. much of the the time we can accomplish the same goal with limited or controlled contact, and mitigate some of the damage. its good to weigh all of our options.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

[MeandThee29]

I thought I could do limited contact, but it was really rocky. I always felt like we were digging more trenches than ever. He pushed dividing accounts and selling the house, which I took as giving up.

Recently after months of NC he claimed a life change and wanted to negotiate reconciliation. However, soon I realized that the terms were exactly the same as before. All three were to move where he is with no counselling or accountability, and leave everything we love here behind including two partial college degrees.

I refused, and we're back to NC. I a horrid wife again that God will judge. Same with the young adults. I can't count the recycles now. I didn't even tell our college kids this time.

[MeandThee29]

Duplicate, sorry!

[Zen606]

Hi Guilt,
Thanks for sharing your concerns.  This is what I think. After the behaviors you described coming from your ex, do you seriously think that she has improved?  They improve and we can have the relationship we so much want with them, this is what we all wish for, but it is unrealistic. 

NC is the best thing you can do when dealing with a BPD/trait person because they are very ill, and I doubt anyone wants to spend the rest of their lives dealing with someone with a personality illness. Its not worth it. 

I went NC, am in the 10th month and consider it the best thing I could have done for myself. I was very much in love with him but when his behaviors started reflecting those of my BPD mother, I ran to the nearest exit. I am in therapy making great progress and am not looking back.

Zen606

[guilttripped9000]

First of all: MASSIVE THANKS TO ALL OF YOU! Words can't express what it means to me speakting to People with a similar experience. As you told and as you can see, she has not changed to the better. Still unloyal, dishonest and disrespectful. But even more promiscuos, which is still Kind of confusing to me. How can you ___ two dudes, which she has not admired during our so-called-relationship and which weren't her type (anymore)? Maybe it is a coping mechanism to convince herself that she did not ever love me and always found the other guys better? And why is she telling lies about me, I definitely avoided it going into the supermarket she was working in?

I guess that she is still not over me and has not confronted herself with the facts and the things that really has happened, that is why she is still telling lies to herself, like I was too thin for her or I am a Psycho. I think the opposite of love is indifference and not hate and that  is why she seems not over me. But it doesn't matter anyway, all of you guys are right: I shall never go back to her, I will lose my sanity and my life and my selfrespect, which I am working hard on everyday.

It is still hard to detach and set a fullstop after this mess, but I don't have any choice.   

[XSurvivorX]

I guess that she is still not over me and has not confronted herself with the facts and the things that really has happened, that is why she is still telling lies to herself, like I was too thin for her or I am a Psycho.

I do not know her, nor do I really know the situation - but I would just caution you on these level of assumption.  She very well may not be over you, but pwBPD tend to be very erratic, and the display of these types of risky behaviors or compulsions can occur when they are having a crisis of sorts; splitting is a good mechanism to protect themselves from hurt or pain. I just wouldn't want you to feel as though she is doing this as a response to a singular event - the breakup - when in reality it is probably far more nuanced than that.

She most likely could be dealing with a number of issues internally associated with her BPD, and it is manifesting in this behavior.  It might sound callous or mean to imply that she could have really "loved" you and she is acting like this as a result after coming to a realization of some sort (when she may never have loved you at all).  I don't know - but I am just watching out for your feelings.  BPD'ers tend to love an idolized version of someone that they project onto; the emptiness inside her that you filled with stability or through the control she exerted over you could be what she "misses."  In that case, the 'you' in that situation could be a brick, and she would miss the brick.  Again, just watching out for your feeligns and your own sense of health and self worth (which is incredible, I will say - you are super worthy of good things and reciprocated kind, healthy love). 

[gotbushels]

Hi guilttripped9000 

As you told and as you can see, she has not changed to the better.

Yes, a lot of them don't change into someone we want them to be.

Still unloyal, dishonest and disrespectful.

I think my ex was too.

But even more promiscuos, which is still Kind of confusing to me. How can you ___ two dudes, which she has not admired during our so-called-relationship and which weren't her type (anymore)?

This also surprised me during my relationship with my ex. After getting untangled from the mess, I was thankful for the next 4 years after that--that I wouldn't be bewildered by these things that seemed so strange to me. How can a person say she loves 1 person, is intimate with another person, have multiple sexual partners, and then change her views each month? I want to share with you some hope that you don't have to answer these kinds of questions anymore when you get through detachment.   

I really encourage you to do a relationship postmortem here, work through detachment an relationship recovery. Invest the time in yourself.

Me too, I agree with BeagleGirl and think this is a good way for you to go. The stages are on the right side bar of this page. What will you do about it guilttripped9000?

[guilttripped9000]

XSurvivorX: Probably you are right, the fact alone that she deleted her best friend out of her life because he drove drunk speaks for itself. Or that she is returning to her "abusive" ex. I don't know how your aftermath was, but I am still struggling to accept that she is just a bad and evil person with BPD, who will ruin her own and other lives. I just have to accept what she did to me and delete and banish her completeley out of my life, before she will ruin it again. I know now that it is neither about me nor any other guy. Her behavior is about herself, she is responsible for her actions and reactions and while she does not accept responsibility for her behavior/she thinks that her behavior was normal, she ain't going to change. As long as she does not say sorry and is really pitiful and acting responsible, there can't be a way I will speak to her ever again.

gotbushels:
Has your Ex change? I guess because of the above reasons, they probably will never change. But would it really matter? Our exes nearly destroyed us, the trust is gone forever and we would not have a good and peaceful life with them as we want because our gut instinct and our mind would say no to her louder than ever.

How do you copy with the fact that she ___ed dudes she would not have a closer look to while you were together? I see it as a huge betrayal.

[gotbushels]

Has your Ex change?

I looked up her social media (curiosity) the following 6 months (3.5 years ago). As far as I could tell, no. She made public the same issues we fought over, but with her new boyfriend.

I guess because of the above reasons, they probably will never change. But would it really matter?

Well, matter to whom? It doesn't matter to me because I wanted 0 relationship with her. I might indulge in saying "oh it justifies my decision"--but regardless of what she put on social media, it doesn't affect my confidence in my decision to end things with her. The reasons why I asked her to leave are sound on their own. It helps doing post-mortem, for the reason flourdust wrote here:

I didn't cause it. Why is this useful? Because it reminds me that I am not responsible for someone else's behaviors, only my own. It helps me reject projection that I am the persecutor.

Her behaviour was probably there before my relationship with her. It was there after. So it adds to the fact that I didn't cause it. I'd add on that BPD as a serious mental illness preexisted my relationship with this particular person. I had a role in perpetuating it for a year or so, but I didn't "do it".

Our exes nearly destroyed us, the trust is gone forever and we would not have a good and peaceful life with them as we want because our gut instinct and our mind would say no to her louder than ever.

Yes, the pwBPD sometimes does things that lead to undermining the trust severely in a relationship. It doesn't destroy the SO though.

How do you copy with the fact that she ___ed dudes she would not have a closer look to while you were together? I see it as a huge betrayal.

Yes, I think almost everyone here felt that way with their partner (pwBPD or not), when infidelity is discovered. Which then leads us back to this:

Me too, I agree with BeagleGirl and think this is a good way for you to go. The stages are on the right side bar of this page. What will you do about it guilttripped9000?

[XSurvivorX]

I don't know how your aftermath was, but I am still struggling to accept that she is just a bad and evil person with BPD, who will ruin her own and other lives. I just have to accept what she did to me... .

Honestly, after time I had to resign myself to the fact that even though I was a willing participant in the relationship, I had not been a willing or witting participant in the BPD; it was like I had just stumbled across a really bad storm that I was caught in for a few years, got repeatedly soaked, hit by the lightning a few times, deafened by the thunder - and the wind blew away a lot of my stuff.  I had to just realize it was a massive natural event that I sadly encountered because I chose to "drive east" instead of going another route (to use analogies).

I just had to accept that it happened, I needed to learn from it what I could, make the best from that lesson, and try to proceed on with my life (picking up the pieces as I go).  In the end, it worked out great for me but that was a very long and lonely road.  I don't even care if she popped out of the woodwork to apologize anymore; I know it'd never happen or if it did, it wouldn't have meaning or heart behind it. 

No sir. I just had to accept it was what it was, and move on from it.

Wishing you the best -

[Cromwell]

I feel really confused at the moment after I saw her again a few hours ago. I guess it is right, what I am doing. But how do I know it, because it does not feel right, especially after seeing her, it is hard to stay NC and ignoring her. How can I be sure that she has not changed and is a better person and a good match now? And what would happen, if I ended the NC? Has anyone out there met their uPwBPD-Ex and they have changed or had good lives without us?
The hardest thing is I think I want to go back, but I must not. My friends would kill me, I would lose my self respect,  but still after months of NC, I still miss her with every part of my body. Help please.

Hi Guilttripped9000

its a tricky one, missing someone who has caused such emotional pain.

Has she changed, or holding on to a hope or wish she might? Its just crystal ball forecasting.

All we can go on is what the experience has been so far;

its led to you making the choice to go NC, it became too much, regardless of the positive happy times in the r/s.

I think what made it difficult for me and where I can relate, is the experience of how quickly the contrast in behaviour could be; one moment hated, the next loved.

Missing her was always a case of having a doubt in my mind that somehow, maybe the next time, she would just stay course and not deviate from it. Maybe i was the one at fault and had caused her to lapse into "hate" mode behaviour, if only I could fix that, all would work out ok.

What helped was realising that I wasnt the cause, she behaved this way in the past and it wasnt emotionally healthy to hang around any more on nothing more than a "hope" that things would ever change. The only point where I began to not miss her was when I finally made the decisive choice that id never have anything to do with her again, as long as there was some latent hope, i continued to miss her, it told my emotions to not "let go" fully and detach.

[guilttripped9000]

Thanks again for responding,  amazing support here!

@gotbushels: What a surprise she has not changed, eh? What really bothers me is that they always tell you how they have changed and so much better without you, because you were the cause of all the Problems and then you only hear negative things about them from others, which not only proof  they have not changed, no, they are worse than ever. I ask myself that if they recognizse that you were not guilty of their pain, they paint you white or do they paint you white because you were the cause of their pain and they are used to it? But maybe it is far more complicated or far more easy, I don't think that any action of your ex or my makes any sense. Don't know if you have seen my red flag list, but damn, I guess you will find herself in there pretty well.

You said that you wanted 0 relationship with her - Does that mean you only had a FwB or an affair with her? What do you think how does the status of the relationship influences her behavior?

And this point is golden and I always want to remember that, when I am thinking it was my fault being treated like dirt.

But I have to disagree, I think BPD destroys the Partner very hard. I already read on sosuave.net or other websites of replacements, who died because of an heart attack or suicide. So BPD is really destructive, for you and for the partner as well.


To my Situation: I won't do anything about it. I just can not initiate any form of contact with a person, who really treated me worse than any other person ever in my life. My goal is to detach and the thought about being free and finally having no to think about her anymoremakes me strong and happy. In two weeks there is a party, where I would normally totally like to go, but she is there as well,so NO, I want to avoid her.
Detaching worked pretty well in the last two days. I sat down and asked myself, what did I lose? If I do not consider the  Manipulation, the sex, her Beauty and the guilt trips,what really did I lose? If she would have taken responsibilty for her behavior and did not lure me in with lies, manipulation and sex, would I had stayed? TOTALLY NOT. Because that is all they got. They have nothing to offer for us, they only take,take, take until they have your life. Suckers.

XSurvivorX:
I love that analogy! Wow, quite perfect. I think what makes it so hard to survive is the fact that you solely get hit by the hurrican. While she appears normal, happy and friendly in public, you only get the negative things to see and feel.So it seems it must be your fault. Her facadeis quite perfect, but is it really important? When someboy can act perfect with others and destroys only you, why would you spend time with them anyway? It does not make them a better person or you a bad person.

@Cromwell:
Has your Ex changed? (rhetorical question of course!)
My newest post about my personal  red flags showed me one Thing: How can one human being that does not see any fault in her behavior really change such a Long list of such sh*tty behavior? Even for normal ones it is hard and as she is obviously disordered, it is near to impossible.

I think,you are right. The changed behavior is hard to understand and you got to take it personally, because there is no rational reason to see, so it must be you, eh?
So you Sound very healthy at all, are you "free" and detached or do you still miss and think about her?
It is crazy, how they lay all the responsibilty and all the fault for their Problems on us,and even if we want to help and make the best out of them, they bring the worst out of us and hurt as sh*t.

[Cromwell]

So you Sound very healthy at all, are you "free" and detached or do you still miss and think about her?
It is crazy, how they lay all the responsibilty and all the fault for their Problems on us,and even if we want to help and make the best out of them, they bring the worst out of us and hurt as sh*t.

It took me a year after going NC to fully sanitise all the up and downs emotions guiltripped. My life is great now, for example, I didnt think once of her today.

theres nothing to miss or think about - its pointless, the brain knows that she will never feature again in my life so it doesnt bother. It doesnt even want to make sense of it anymore, for the same reason. Although, there has been value in understanding a bit about the disorder, that year has been far from a "waste", it was self-development and educational. It took a long time to deal with a cascade of up and down emotions, but ive been around long enough here to realise that this is just par for the course of a BPD relationship. It helped immensely to know that i hadnt met some 1 in a million, that there wasnt anything "mystique" or "out of this world" about her.

In fact I learned enough to be quite bored of it all, and her, which is good, its got nothing to do with my life anymore. I come only to these boards to return that compassion I got at a time I needed it most - ironically - it came from complete strangers and not the "woman of my dreams".

What I hope for is that you find a way to get back on track and remember; life is finite, your life is finite, do you want to spend a second more on this? If the dream has failed, what harm is there in making a new one if needs be. I might have failed with her, it launched me towards embarking on a career im in now that Id forgotten about for over 15years. Im making up for lost time Guiltripped, 2years 7 months worth - I literally have no time to miss her, ruminate on what "should have, could have, would have" happened if x,y,z would have happened instead.

I gave up and threw in the towel,

 she wasnt worth it anymore.

[XSurvivorX]

Im making up for lost time Guiltripped, 2years 7 months worth - I literally have no time to miss her, ruminate on what "should have, could have, would have" happened if x,y,z would have happened instead.

AAAAAnnnnnd how! Well done good sir for placing 'you' first.

[gotbushels]

What a surprise she has not changed, eh?

Yes, not really surprised.

What really bothers me [... .]

Why does it bother you?

I ask myself that if they recognizse that you were not guilty of their pain, they paint you white or do they paint you white because you were the cause of their pain and they are used to it?

I think their recognition of this here is neither predictable nor stable. I don't think there's a stable and consistent reason why or whether you're seen as "white" or not.

You said that you wanted 0 relationship with her -

No. I didn't want anything to do with her whatsoever after the last breakup. I also wasn't interested in making a fwb or affair with her. Moreover I wouldn't want that done to me, so I wouldn't do it to some other person.

What do you think how does the status of the relationship influences her behavior?

I don't know. I think a pwBPD's drive for a relationship is more driven by feelings rather than whom she is dating, or whatever the pwBPD thinks the dating status is.

But I have to disagree, I think BPD destroys the Partner very hard.

Well, yes for some people that's true; the partner's body may suffer illness that has some link to the stresses caused by the relationship.

My goal is to detach and the thought about being free and finally having no to think about her anymoremakes me strong and happy.

I hope you find your peace with what happened.  

[guilttripped9000]

@Cromwell: Those were so many awesome Points in here. I respond so lately because I wanted to let that words sink in and think about it. Of course I have to admit that you  are absolutely right and I am  damn proud of you that you get so far! But I still not am at this point, even after nearly 9 months my heart is bleeding. She destroyed me, she hurt me and I do not even take full responsibility for her behavior anymore, but at the moment, I am missing her. Whenever I think about my future I think of it as a life without her and it still depresses me very much. All I can think about is how she can still love her first love after everything what happened and after admitting that because of me she coulld get over him. Is he really going to make this work? What could I have done and what does he better than me? Why has she maybe a functioning FwB with the guy from Turkey? And why him? Is this some sort of revenge against her parents or a control over their  feelings? They don't want any turkish Connection with their family and do not want any promiscuity of their daughter neither.
I don't know what to think anymore, but I can't stop. I always think I am at failure and the other guys will get her good side and maybe if I had been more distant and more emotionally unavailable and stronger,maybe we could have had a future. Damn, I gáve my everything and all to see her happy and functioning,  but still after 9 months she still tells lies about me to destroy my reputation. And while that she ___s guy after guy, life is not fait, isn't it?

@Gotbushels: Also amazing points here. I also do not know, if I could have influenced the splitting, but I guess not. Maybe if I would have not stood up forme, but that was against my nature at some point. Well it bothers me, because I believed it and I was really down at some point. And now she doesn't seem to be better off at all, but I always have to think, what my replacement (her ex and the guy from Turkey) have, what I do not have. Will they make it work? She always said about her ex that he accepted her and was not so influenced by her behavior. Does she only return to him for an ego bosst, because he abandoned her two times for other girls? Is it just the feeling he is giving her or does she love the person aswell?

[Cromwell]

life is not fait, isn't it?

im in my mid30s now guiltripped. I calculated that in terms of the years in the relationship, and measuring that up to my life expectancy. It came to 4 and a bit %

sure, i have no way of knowing if I will make it that far, or go beyond it, but it is a fair projection to make. Lets add in some contingency and say I only make it to 65.

its still not even 5%

I can live with that. Life is far from over, far from being the enemy, she turned out to simply be a little catalyst to spur me on to start taking note of the second hand on my watch (I only started to re-wear one, I discarded it during the r/s).

always clockwise, never counter clockwise.

I dont count in this year it took me to recover, i look back on this time as self development. Dare I say, enjoyable at times? Ive actually met some amazing people I will never forget. kindness, compassion, sometimes ive heard just a handful of words and it changed a whole day of what could have been.

even if a big proportion of my time  was telling the whole internet about what I felt the "worst C" id crossed paths with, shared all that hurt. It wasnt about her anymore, it actually never was, hanging around with her was borrowed time in the relationship, I just couldnt let go of that dream, or I couldnt let that anger express itself, beyond a bit of venting; sleeping with her friends, and some other tit-for-tats just to keep my sanity.

High blood pressure, 10kgs packed on. Correlation is : repressed stress, anger. Was she worth it? was she the real cause and effect?

i made a mistake and I didnt know how to fix it, beyond hanging around with her, beating myself up every second of the day, telling myself I was happy, when I wasnt truly.

life is fair, I went through all that BS for a reason, to value better my life and myself intertwined with it.

today i had a great day, it turned out even better than id expected. it wasnt even sunny, I barely noticed.

do every day the things that make you happy. thinking about her not doing much for you? all i can say, find something that does, fix this problem and it takes some creativity, trial and error, you have not made a mistake to research her condition, for me it led not to becoming an expert in BPD - far from it (this wasnt the goal), it got the stage of accepting that I didnt need to know, it was pointless - it was over - it would never be, the dream was just that - a dream. replaced with new ones.

why would I dwell on a bygone nightmare when I could be working towards new happy ones? what I was doing just started to enter my mind as not making much sense anymore guiltripped, i couldnt give it enough value to justify it, life was ticking away and it took me getting angry about it - no rephrase "very angry" about it, as the catalyst to propel forwards and leave it in the past where it rightfully belongs.
-all 4ish% of it.

and lets be fair, she had her good moments too it wasnt all doom and gloom. Who was the real loser in this? I lived my own dream, I had those feelings, they were real to me. what was she doing alongside it all? Hitched for a ride, a spectator, empty, numb, but putting on a good show. I dont even waste my time to feel sorry for her or even to think I maybe should - too busy - working towards new dreams, with a more resilient person that is better to cope after what ive been through if they dont materialise the way id envinsage them as. Im getting old enough to see a trend that all the dreams never did once attained, the fun was in the making of them, longing for them, and for me striving for them. but when they burst they have to be seen for what they are "dreams" are not real, they are just, well... ."dreams".

what are your plans for tomorrow? is it another "life isnt fair day"? or do we have some power to do something about it? im going to try book a holliday and stop smoking. see what that little alteration does. step my step guiltripped, I see the anger in your posts, dont fear it - I did -  its going to help let all this poison out if you make use of it.

[gotbushels]

I also do not know, if I could have influenced the splitting, but I guess not. [... .]

Well regardless of whether she splits a particular aspect of herself (or you), to stand up for what you want/negotiate--I think--is generally a good thing in relationships.

Well it bothers me, because I believed it and I was really down at some point.

You speak of it bothering you in present tense but you speak of the belief and state of happiness as a past tense. There's nothing wrong with that--does it bother you still?

And now she doesn't seem to be better off at all, but I always have to think, what my replacement (her ex and the guy from Turkey) have, what I do not have. Will they make it work?

It might help to recall here that a compulsion to think about something isn't the same as a curiosity. A lot of us here have been curious about these things, and over time you might feel any compulsion you have start to fade as you become less interested in her life and more interested in your own.

She always said about her ex that he accepted her and was not so influenced by her behavior. Does she only return to him for an ego bosst, because he abandoned her two times for other girls?

I think a BPD's reasons for something like this can change according to the weather. What does it mean for you though?

[hurting300]

Once you get the point indifference no contact or contact means nothing. The best thing my ex did was go silent. I healed now I am happy.

[guilttripped9000]

@cromwell:
I am sorry that I took so long time again! I was too busy and wanted to share a good answer to your (as always) quality postt with a free head. I can not say thank you enough that you did not take that personally and responded on my other post!Thank you so much!
Are you still being the enemy for her or did that change? Are you hoping that it will change one day and you will have a normal conversation with her or would it be better for you, she wouldn't? I can imagine that if you would have a normal conversation with her, you would be guessing, if she has changed and that she would be a good match now. I am constantly asking this and figuring it out is not easy. I will try it later on this board.
And I like your view of the time as self-development, because it is true. While figuring out, what she was or is, you get a worthful insight in you aswell, because it takes two for a relationship. Sleeping with her friends - I wish I could do that, would be a bittersweet revenge. But I helped her best friend with something she asked me for a few months ago, to which I did not respond. Was a nice feeling, because it must have been a proof or more of a confusion to her that I am not that bad, when I help her best friend and not her. She must have seen some kind of fault in her, if she was normal.
What I find interesting is that you developed high blood pressure. Have you got any theory, why we develop the same symptoms as them over the time? She had high blood pressure aswell and other symptoms I developed over time after the breakup in January.
And your tips are good as always and an inspiration and I hope I can adopt some of them successfully in my life, because I think you should be really considered as some kind of role model, which gives lots of hope to the members of this board.
Just amazing points of you. I can relate to the point that it was fun longing for her. I remember that everytime she wanted me in a relationship I had gutwrenching feeling and did not want her anymore. But as soon as she wanted another guy or did not want me anymore I had to get her and felt kind of love for her.

[guilttripped9000]

@gotbushels:
Thank you!
Yes it still bothers me, because I am still trying to figure out, if she really has fundamentally changed and would be a good girilfriend for me now.
But these kind of thoughts show me something more worth. I need to work harder on me, myself and my self-worth. And I need to have better women in my life, so I can forget her easier.
It becomes better over time, you are right and right now I do not think that much, if my replacement (if she has one right now, do not know for 100%) has something that I do not have. Because I think of her as a person, who falls in love with or likes everyone, who gives her a good feeling. I think her love is nothing personal.
@hurting300:
You are right, the goal is detachment, no contact is just the best possibility for it.

[Cromwell]

Are you still being the enemy for her or did that change?

I have no idea guilttripped9000, ive taken myself off her radar now for so long I cant even remember when I last had contact.

Are you hoping that it will change one day and you will have a normal conversation with her or would it be better for you, she wouldn't? I can imagine that if you would have a normal conversation with her, you would be guessing, if she has changed and that she would be a good match now. I am constantly asking this and figuring it out is not easy.

Ive already had those normal conversations, they went along the line of me breaking up from her, being recycled on the basis of;

"im off the drugs now! " "ive got a job!"

Both were true, at least, the latter she ended up with more endurance in then the former.

Its easy for any of us to wake up one day and feel some positive bolt of energy that says it is time to radically change stuff. Its possible; only by - actually working on doing it - consistently, day after day to declare after a reasonable amount of time that change has happened. Its easy to "talk the talk" and she was good enough at it to rope me back in. The more disturbing truth is that I didnt believe one word of it but went a long anyway, but thats a whole different scope on the subject. Bottom line is; when I finally decided to discard her properly - id changed.

changed to the point the scenario you suggest hasnt even entered my mind as ever being possible. Why would I ever give the chance to someone who has caused so much emotional turmoil, even if they do go on and take steps towards their own betterment.

it was always, and became solely "all about her". She even upstaged my own birthday party. Couldnt have one day of remembering I was born on this planet with my own sense of self, ie; not destined to be a caretaker of troubled souls. I want to actually chill out and enjoy life, I had to readjust the equation to have her removed from it. So the problem is solved, there is no more conversations, cant be, she fell below the standards expected - I gave it far more than I could justify, not a second more im going to waste.

And I like your view of the time as self-development,

The Self Development is life long, I had to start to actively tune in to it though. Your posts, my posts, just raw data at its basis but since I set the goal to detach, spent a year trying to, ive taken suggestions and put them into practice. This is where time comes in and differs from just waking up one day, as my ex exclaimed at a recycle "im off the drugs, ive got a job"!

"oh wow, that amazing, this must be part of the dream where all the odds were overpassed as if by magic"

She lasted 5 minutes in everything she tried to convince, talk the talk, in the end it dragged out over 3 years of what felt more like I was devolving rather than self development.

I dont know of any supposed less sentient beings that actually put up with living in ill health and misery if they have the opportunity to avoid it. An orca that prefers the confines of an Aqua Park to that of the wide expanse of the ocean to roam. Unless it doesnt know any better and over time accepts its confines. I had a life before my ex, I had better, I wanted better, but somehow I settled and endured far less.

What I find interesting is that you developed high blood pressure. Have you got any theory, why we develop the same symptoms as them over the time? She had high blood pressure aswell and other symptoms I developed over time after the breakup in January.

The high blood pressure is a correlation but in my case it was the least to worry about in terms of where things were headed. When my ex ended up in hospital I was there for her, before the relationship, I was there for her at any time of the early hours, awakened out my sleep - for whatever attention-seeking behaviour she felt she needed at that moment to alleviate.

What about my health though? I didnt even know I was ill, because I was perpetually wrapped up by her own never ending needs. Toxicity is the take home lesson from all of this, the ill health creeps up insidiously. Its fine to think that a few punctuated moments of adrenaline induced excitement means that there is some substance to the otherwise - miserable relationship, but long term, the anxiety and depression work their magic, day by day. I had problems before I met her, she ended up amplifying and compounding them. She was the last thing I wanted/needed. I wanted some compassion, rather than just words, or if im going through a difficult time, to have someone who would be there as I did each time. I got instead betrayal, destruction and a form of sadism of enjoying to hit someone who was already down.

You think I could give her the time of day, let alone a "normal conversation"? After what she did.

In the midst of writing a comprehensive list of red flags to avoid future potential problems, we can intellectually know about red flags, its not enough to stop it happening again. I see red flags from your list all the time, I battle for this identified pull I have towards them. Once ive got over this, I dont need the equivalent of a pilots pre-takeoff checklist before a relationship, this is about being emotionally strong and healthy in ourselves, where out-of-sync errors dont need to happen in the first place.

we were a match -a very emotionally dysfunctional one.

I had to break out by wanting different, otherwise i may as well just go back to her, hope for the best, or the alternative, go into round 2 with the next because of some subtle programming and conditioning going on to make me think that sort of role dynamic equates to a feeling of fulfillment. I tried finding it from someone troubled, emotionally unbaked, clumsily riding through on nothing more than a hope that it would work - it didnt.

back to the drawing board, or back for more of the (it got very boring - predicable) same old. She used me as fuel, and fuel eventually burns out.

I remember that everytime she wanted me in a relationship I had gutwrenching feeling and did not want her anymore. But as soon as she wanted another guy or did not want me anymore I had to get her and felt kind of love for her.

I beat up her 'kickboxer' that she cheated on me with. She was back within a week. After that, I gave up - trying to "dream steal" from her, that the idealised guys she kept finding were what she had built up illusions about (as she initially did for me). Its a complicated disorder, you say or do something that goes outside of the fantasy they have built up - you cease to exist. Its a high turnover my ex went through. This competitive inducing gameplay just strikes to the core of our primal senses. In short, have to break free from this too. Im ashamed of what ive done, but part of devolution back to neanderthal level. The mistake I made is it showed her that what she did worked, she cheated on me but I fought for her - thus elevating her self esteem. It encouraged more of the same to follow, in those toxic little cycles. each one erodes self esteem incrementally, until you wake up one day and realise that falling in 'love' with a whore was the best could achieve.