If any of you have time, check out attachment styles in relationships

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'll add my two cents to the excellent contributions of Notwendy and Coastered, and say that it's likely that she could be a healthy person who has felt such an emotional drought after a previous dysfunctional relationship that she's allowing herself to move forward more quickly than she might have otherwise.

Also it's hard to discern red flags when you're in the midst of the beginnings of a new relationship that seems to be promising. And even high functioning pwBPD can seem normal for an extended period of time before dropping the mask, so there's really no guarantees, regardless of how vigilant one hopes to be.

I do hope that she's an emotionally healthy woman and with the distance of a long distance relationship, you will have time to observe her more carefully, but still LDRs can have their own inherent issues in that it's easier to put one's best foot forward when it's only for a short burst of time.

Good luck with this relationship, truthbeknown. It's good that you're being mindful about entering into it.  

my last gf was also seeming like she was in an emotional drought with her divorce from her ex husband. But after she got her fill of me she moved on to wanting whatever void was there to be filled by another man.  the difference is that she was not able to communicate with me as much as this woman.  And also with the current gf (which btw she doesn't like that term because she feels it is too filled with expectation that it is only a high school romance and not something serious) we did a test called E and P in relationships and we are both P's.  Our previous partners were E's and that meant they were  more like avoidant attachment styles.  She has admitted to being an anxious attachment style and when i'm with an avoidant i'm anxious too but now i can see how the roles can be reversed if i'm not conscious about it.  If any of you have time, check out or google E and P in relationships and let me know what you think.  I am happy that i found out about this information because there are alot of people who aren't necessarily borderline but might just have degrees of attachment styles that lead us down funky paths.   She is conscious and so am i and i've never had a partner who looks into these things and takes ownership of them.  So if she is "over loving" me it could be because of the anxious style of being afraid of losing the relationship or doing something wrong.  Her mom is a bit Narky/controlling but she has learned to have good or better boundaries with her.  I think we have similar mom issues.  So we talk about alot of deep stuff and both love music so she constantly sends me music and I do the same.  I love how we share this and communicate with songs.  It does seem a little high school romancy but I am enjoying that and not feeling uncomfortable with that.

[truthbeknown]

I'll add my two cents to the excellent contributions of Notwendy and Coastered, and say that it's likely that she could be a healthy person who has felt such an emotional drought after a previous dysfunctional relationship that she's allowing herself to move forward more quickly than she might have otherwise.

Also it's hard to discern red flags when you're in the midst of the beginnings of a new relationship that seems to be promising. And even high functioning pwBPD can seem normal for an extended period of time before dropping the mask, so there's really no guarantees, regardless of how vigilant one hopes to be.

I do hope that she's an emotionally healthy woman and with the distance of a long distance relationship, you will have time to observe her more carefully, but still LDRs can have their own inherent issues in that it's easier to put one's best foot forward when it's only for a short burst of time.

Good luck with this relationship, truthbeknown. It's good that you're being mindful about entering into it.  

my last gf was also seeming like she was in an emotional drought with her divorce from her ex husband. But after she got her fill of me she moved on to wanting whatever void was there to be filled by another man.  the difference is that she was not able to communicate with me as much as this woman.  And also with the current gf (which btw she doesn't like that term because she feels it is too filled with expectation that it is only a high school romance and not something serious) we did a test called E and P in relationships and we are both P's.  Our previous partners were E's and that meant they were  more like avoidant attachment styles.  She has admitted to being an anxious attachment style and when i'm with an avoidant i'm anxious too but now i can see how the roles can be reversed if i'm not conscious about it.  If any of you have time, check out or google E and P in relationships and let me know what you think.  I am happy that i found out about this information because there are alot of people who aren't necessarily borderline but might just have degrees of attachment styles that lead us down funky paths.   She is conscious and so am i and i've never had a partner who looks into these things and takes ownership of them.  So if she is "over loving" me it could be because of the anxious style of being afraid of losing the relationship or doing something wrong.  Her mom is a bit Narky/controlling but she has learned to have good or better boundaries with her.  I think we have similar mom issues.  So we talk about alot of deep stuff and both love music so she constantly sends me music and I do the same.  I love how we share this and communicate with songs.  It does seem a little high school romancy but I am enjoying that and not feeling uncomfortable with that.

[Cat Familiar]

Interesting about attachment styles--thanks for mentioning it. Here is a link to a test https://dianepooleheller.com/attachment-test/   I'm going to take it now.  

  This online test requires an email address to see the results.

Yes, so many of us can be in the normal range, but we've had some less than optimal parenting. It's very good that she's open and aware about these things, particularly if her mother is a narcissist.

Sounds like you're off to a promising start with her.  

[Cat Familiar]

I used that online test (you will have to sign up with your email) and came out 50% Secure, 28% Avoidant, 18% Ambivalent and 3% Disorganized.  I can see the avoidant tendencies and it makes sense with my childhood.

 "Avoidantly attached people commonly find their greatest struggle to be a lack of emotion."   Yep, that's me, but I'm not really troubled by that. 

"You may observe that in ambivalent attachment styles there is a tendency to be chronically dissatisfied. First, there is a tendency to project their own familial history onto their relationship. Secondly if the other person becomes available, they become unavailable! Unaccustomed to receiving love, having it available doesn’t fit their profile of “still wanting”. Over time partners of Ambivalent people can be discouraged by their love being dismissed and the loss of the relationship can be the both the feared and created outcome."


Hmmm... .I do remember when younger I was not keen on men who were too interested in me at the beginning... .

Regarding the Disorganized attachment style: "For the Adult this may mean being held emotionally hostage by the conflict of the desire for intimacy as well as the fear of it."

Thanks for mentioning this info, truthbeknown.  I learn so much here. 

[truthbeknown]

I used that online test (you will have to sign up with your email) and came out 50% Secure, 28% Avoidant, 18% Ambivalent and 3% Disorganized.  I can see the avoidant tendencies and it makes sense with my childhood.

 "Avoidantly attached people commonly find their greatest struggle to be a lack of emotion."   Yep, that's me, but I'm not really troubled by that. 

"You may observe that in ambivalent attachment styles there is a tendency to be chronically dissatisfied. First, there is a tendency to project their own familial history onto their relationship. Secondly if the other person becomes available, they become unavailable! Unaccustomed to receiving love, having it available doesn’t fit their profile of “still wanting”. Over time partners of Ambivalent people can be discouraged by their love being dismissed and the loss of the relationship can be the both the feared and created outcome."


Hmmm... .I do remember when younger I was not keen on men who were too interested in me at the beginning... .

Regarding the Disorganized attachment style: "For the Adult this may mean being held emotionally hostage by the conflict of the desire for intimacy as well as the fear of it."

Thanks for mentioning this info, truthbeknown.  I learn so much here. 

thanks for sharing this.  I'm going to read Stan Takin's book, "wired for love" as well because people have been recommending this.  He speaks to have to navigate through this dynamic.   I have appreciated conversing or chatting with women who are "avoidant types" because I honor their journey to heal and confront what has shaped their relating styles.  I'll have to take the test and see where i fall.  Have you taken the E and P in relationships test?  that is a good one too!

[Cat Familiar]

Didn’t see any test for E & P when I googled it. Will look again.

Yeah, I’ve gotten labeled as distant or cold because I’m relatively unemotional. I certainly don’t feel that way, but perhaps it’s how I am perceived in romantic relationships.

In the Meyers Briggs category I’m an INTJ (the observer) and I’m more of a thinker than a feeler. Also I think I woul probably have fit the diagnostic criteria for high functioning Asperger’s as a teenager, so I come by this unemtionality honestly.

I can see how avoidant women could be challenging to be involved with. 

[Cat Familiar]

Here’s a link to the E & P test. https://hypnosis.edu/ep/intro

BTW, I’m an E—so that’s consistent with the Avoidant attachment style.

[truthbeknown]

Here’s a link to the E & P test. https://hypnosis.edu/ep/intro

BTW, I’m an E—so that’s consistent with the Avoidant attachment style.

CAT, if you watch his you tube videos he says, "we E's give the other the candy in the beginning and then we take it away!"  on the other hand he says that us P's give too much in relation to how much an E can handle because E's need lust and to be chasers to feel engaged in relationships.  It seems like someone up there has a strange sense of humor when it comes to this dynamic and relationships.  I'm with a P right now and we can just talk for hours and lay around and be intimate for hours and not get anything done.  It's kind've like when Sting talked about his wife back in the day (don't know if they are still married?).   He said "we can have sex all day."  what i believe he meant was that they could just lay around naked all day and cuddle etc because it seems like they are 2 p's.   E's value family/ career and friends more then romance time (according to John).  So theoretically each type is supposed to teach the other how to be in relationship but usually one doesn't want to learn (usually the E's because of their avoidant dynamic).  I think my ex gf had aspergers to some degree.  Most people close to her said she was un empathetic.  She seemed cold when she pushed me away and started sleeping with another man right away. In researching aspergers that is one end of the spectrum to be hypersexual without emotion.  The other end is not liking sex at all.   who knows, she got off meds and was a tad bit bipolar too.  I just know i loved her and she was unable to process that emotionally and love me back.  I'll always be sad about that but i'm okay now.  I finally found someone who speaks my language so to speak but i'm still a little bit scared it's too good to be true.

[Mustbeabetterway]

   I took the attachment style test and I scored 31% secure, 31 % ambivalent, 20% disorganized and 16% avoidant.

Sounds about right half secure and half ambivalent.  Sounds like my marriage.

I never wondered if my parents, or grandparents for that matter, loved me.  I always felt confident of being loved.  That’s probably why the secure attachment style was ahead by a nose. 

Getting together with my husband when we were both very young influenced my style, I’m sure.  He suffered some abuse as a child. I went into our marriage expecting love to overcome any obstacles.  The dysfunction eventually wore me out.  Constantly having to prove my love proved to be too much.  I wish my husband would take this test!

My father was very depressed and unavailable when in a depressive state.  He was diagnosed “Manic Depressive” which I think today is called Bipolar.  He was not angry or violent, but retreated into dark silence when depressed.  I wanted more of his attention.  Sometimes I received it, and sometimes not, but I kept trying.  Just as I have kept trying to have a loving marriage.  

My mom by all accounts was the boss of her family of origin.  They all seemed on their toes when she came around.  Her grandchildren love her but have found it difficult to be around her because she has a critical edge.  I was always able to smooth things over with her and felt somewhat confused by the effect she had on others.

This is interesting and explains a lot.

Thanks for sharing.

Mustbeabetterway

[Cat Familiar]

CAT, if you watch his you tube videos he says, "we E's give the other the candy in the beginning and then we take it away!"  on the other hand he says that us P's give too much in relation to how much an E can handle because E's need lust and to be chasers to feel engaged in relationships. 

It's been a while since I was single, but as regards to this idea, I can remember being really open and available at the beginnings of relationships. Then if someone were to be too interested and wanting to spend too much time with me too soon, I'd pull away. It felt like I was getting smothered or steamrolled. I need a lot of space, free time to pursue my own interests, and some suitors in the past just didn't understand that. The more they pushed, the more I felt trapped.

I train animals and perhaps because I understand this dynamic, I'm quite good at calming frightened and insecure animals and gaining their trust. It's pressure/release and you back off before they feel uncomfortable. If you gradually increase pressure, such as moving closer to them, then you see tension in their body, you immediately back away, so that they don't feel threatened.

[truthbeknown]

It's been a while since I was single, but as regards to this idea, I can remember being really open and available at the beginnings of relationships. Then if someone were to be too interested and wanting to spend too much time with me too soon, I'd pull away. It felt like I was getting smothered or steamrolled. I need a lot of space, free time to pursue my own interests, and some suitors in the past just didn't understand that. The more they pushed, the more I felt trapped.

I train animals and perhaps because I understand this dynamic, I'm quite good at calming frightened and insecure animals and gaining their trust. It's pressure/release and you back off before they feel uncomfortable. If you gradually increase pressure, such as moving closer to them, then you see tension in their body, you immediately back away, so that they don't feel threatened.

CAT:yes i understand the animal analogy; i had cats most of my life.  You don't run after cats.   they come to you.  So knowing this dynamic i was like that with my previous partner.  I knew she was a committment phobe so i didn't push hard at all.  It was hard because i wanted to tell her that i loved her more but i knew that would just scare her.   Eventually she messed around with someone else in order to quell the anxiety of caring about me and me caring about her.  It was her way of fleeing from the relationship in an unhealthy way.  Btw, i'm 61% secure and 30% anxious/ambivelant type so when i'm with someone who has a higher secure percentage i do better. I know we can test differently depending on who we are with. 

Thanks for sharing your feedback CAT. 

[Cat Familiar]

Certainly that was an unhealthy way for her to create distance. That must have been painful to experience, but it sounds like you're emotionally healthy and have a resilience that has allowed you to process this and heal quickly.

[BeagleGirl]

I came up 64% secure, 29% Anxious/Avoidant, and 7% Disorganized. 

The quote from Anxious/Avoidant that stood out to me was "Because of the lack of consistency the child doubts whether their needs will be met and is on the constant look out for cues and clues to how their behavior may or may not influence the parent’s responses."  I don't really see much avoidant behaviors in my past relationships, but boy do I relate to the anxious part.  I spent my childhood trying to please my dad and most of my adult life trying to get dBPDxh to love me. 

I'm definitely dealing with this right now.  I tend to get anxious when contact drops off and start expending a lot of mental energy trying to figure out what I did wrong and/or what I need to do to get things "back on track".  The past few weeks I've been working on feeling the feelings but not acting on them.  Now I'm trying to stop the "what did/should I do" rumination earlier and instead think through "What am I afraid of and what is the truth?"

BG

[Cat Familiar]

The past few weeks I've been working on feeling the feelings but not acting on them.  Now I'm trying to stop the "what did/should I do" rumination earlier and instead think through "What am I afraid of and what is the truth?"

That's great, BG!    Sometimes I like to ask myself, "What's the worst that can happen?"  Not to think of disastrous outcomes, but what would likely be the worst consequence. And lots of times it's really insignificant. 

[BeagleGirl]

Yep.  Today that process looked like:

Fear - Neighbor B is never going to text/contact me again because he's figured out he doesn't really like me.

Truth (option 1) - Neighbor B just texted me Sunday night and he had work and S9 yesterday.  He has said/done lots of things that indicate that he enjoys conversation/time with me but is cautious and wants to take things slow.  Texting every day is probably not "slow".  He'll probably contact me in the next few days in some way and I'll feel a bit silly that I doubted that he valued conversation/time with me.

Truth (option 2) - Neighbor B, for legitimate or illegitimate reasons, has decided he no longer values conversation/time with me enough to make the effort to initiate.  If I push things it will, at best, prolong a "relationship" where I'm not being valued.  I don't want that.

Overarching Truth - I am someone who is of value, whether Neighbor B or anyone else recognizes it or not.  Nothing I say or do to "earn" value will be effective.  Simply being who I am and who I am becoming is enough.

I figure if I sit with these truths long enough they will trickle down from my head to my heart.
BG

[Cat Familiar]

Yay!    BG, repetition is key. That's how we change habits and create new ones.