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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: CPS Now Involved  (Read 797 times)
Dignity&Strength
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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2018, 06:45:35 AM »

Hi, WW,

I think LNL is advising me not to assume anything, about my husband, or s5, especially at this point. It's only the beginning of the process. Also, that s5 is more capable and resilient than I realize.

I wonder if anybody can describe a family court hearing about a protection order. It's my understanding hat today's hearing is about the charts in the emergency protection order, to determine if they stand or not. But I'm not totally positive.

The legal assistant talked be through answering questions, to only give what was asked, nothing more. So, I'm thinking, this might look like a real court room situation on tv, where people sit beside the judge in a box and are asked questions by the opposing lawyer?

Will child protective services be there? Why is the social worker talking so ugly to me? She is very young, seems proud she has a boyfriend. But speaks angrily, " it will be a very long time  before you're allowed to be alone with your son again, if ever" I don think think I've done anything to be talked to like that, and it is making me cry. It is adding a huge layer of meanness  to deal with on top of what my husband has done.

The legal assistant says, they can't figure out why I am in such hot water with child protective services. I wonder if that 30 second voicemail I accidentally gave my husband this summer, where I was fussing at s5, and spanked him came to light and is part of why cps is nasty?
If so, how do I short answer that one on the stand?

I have kept our family together, for 2 main reasons: to prevent two separate residences in order to protect s5, and to hold off until I finish grad school. But, I am wondering, if my honest answers here will help opposing council, give them too much?

I answer truthfully, with descriptions, justifications, and supporting details, almost like a descriptive writing paper. I'm going to have to think before I answer, slow he conversation down. Can I repeat the question to clarify before I answer? Make sure I underand what he wants?

I'm disappointed that the attorney will only have 30 minutes outside the court room with me to plan a strategy. She is "working me in today b cause she understands how important this is".
What if sh doesn't show? What if she stands me up?

Yep, Forver Dad, I am catastrophizing, I can really feel that. I think some might be that I am in the habit of being prepared for the worst, I will have thought things through, so I can respond instead of react. I look for potholes in the road and make plans to make them smoother. It's catastrophizing and somewhat exhausting.

I wonder, if there are potholes I have not had the foresight to see, to make " smoother"?

Trial is after lunch, early afternoon.

Thank you, everyone.
Dig

Ooh! One more good thing, s5 seems to be adjusting well. And the couple we are staying with are climbing the parenting learning curve in earnest. They are readers and problem solvers, and see their own therapists. The husband came back with a bucket of modeling clay for s5 after seeing his counselor yesterday. So yay, progress!
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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2018, 09:07:59 AM »

Hi, WW,

I think LNL is advising me not to assume anything, about my husband, or s5, especially at this point. It's only the beginning of the process. Also, that s5 is more capable and resilient than I realize.

I’m saying that you cannot know what is true with your 5 year old child. It’s important you understand this. Does it make sense what I’m saying, Dig? He is separate from you, so of course you (all of us who are parents) can only know so much about what our child experienced.
There are 3 possible scenarios in a child sexual abuse allegation.

One is that the child is reporting what happened accurately.
Two is that the child is reporting falsely.
Three is that the child is being coached to report falsely.

The only truth you could know for certain is if you coached him. The other two you cannot know.

Does that make sense?

You have said that you know what happened to S5. I would walk that comment back because it demonstrates an inability to discern what you can know and not know about something your S5 experiences.

It could be why you are being treated the way you are by the social worker.

I would tell them that you could be wrong about what happened, because that’s the truth.

It’s true that my son claimed he could not swim. It is true he could swim. It is true that I did not know the truth until there was light shone on the situation.
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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2018, 09:41:39 AM »

Ah... .I see, LNL.   Thank you for explaining.  That makes sense.  

I know that I did not coach him to report falsely.
I did coach him that his parts belonged to him, the exact names, and to tell me as soon as we were by ourselves if anyone had touched his parts, made him touch there's, or even see each other's. (all along, but not anywhere recently)

So, when I thought there was a possibility my husband coached him to say those things, and spent a night wrestling with what was true, and what I should do, that's my now knowing for sure.

In the days since I took him to social services and reported, s5's behaviors indicate that he may be telling the truth. My heart has hurt a little more each time he has done something at suggests he is telling the truth.

Thanks so much for talking me through my words.
Dig
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« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2018, 11:31:17 AM »

I did coach him that his parts belonged to him, the exact names, and to tell me as soon as we were by ourselves if anyone had touched his parts, made him touch there's, or even see each other's. (all along, but not anywhere recently)

Do you mean that you have these coaching conversations with him regularly?

Just to make sure we're following how things unfolded (there are a lot of moving parts and I have a hard time with timelines - dyslexia with dates/times).

Mon 8/27

Monday night, (the night S5 said that daddy did those things) I had a voice recorder hidden in the bathroom my husband uses, just to see if I could catch him telling S5 to be mean to me. ... .I thought about going right then, to the police station, but I was so worried about what to do, and what was the right choice to keep S5 completely safe forever.

It was Mon night when H touched S5.

S5 mentions it the next day.

Tues 8/28

S5 started talking to me, when we were alone, driving home from town Tuesday night. Out of the blue. ... .He was still talking when we pulled in the driveway, we were home alone, so I let S5 continue. When we got into the house, I asked S5 to show me where these things happened. I flipped out my phone, camera set to record video, and captured a video of S5 describing where in the living room, and what his daddy did.

Does CPS know about that recording and what happened that night?

Wed 8/29

I left S5 with my husband for a little while Wednesday night, around supertime. With an attempt to record whatever may go on in the house. I tried one time to get indisputable evidence.

Ah, ok. I see. S5 told you what happened to him Monday night, but you didn't have indisputable evidence (it was just S5 showing you where it happened, recorded on audio/video). So you left him at home with his dad Wed because of what an attorney told you a few years ago, that you needed proof. Leaving him home Wednesday night was to help you get proof?

the attorney from years ago, around 2016, said that without indisputable evidence, of my husband actually doing something to s3 at the time, that my mothers instinct that he was capable of it, was not enough to prevent full joint custody.

Your attorney said there had to be indisputable evidence of molestation. Without that evidence, you could not get full joint custody (I'm guessing you mean full sole custody?)

Wednesday night, while I was out of the hous, I scanned each recording that recorder had, to see if it captured any sound from the living room. It was a long distance, with the laundry and dryer running in between. So the little voice recorder was indiscernible, to verify s5’s words


There wasn't any evidence, though, or am I missing something?

Thurs 8/30
Because I sat on the info one day, (Wednesday), and reported on Thursday, I am in hot water with child protective services.

I guess they don't know what happened on Monday... .

How did CPS respond when you told them you waited to report because you thought H had coached S5 to tell you that he (H) had sexually molested his son?

I was not totally sure that my husband had not coached him to say that, as he has coached him to say other things in the past.

I was suspecting that my husband coached S5 to say the sexual abuse description. A huge reason why, I thought my husband would do that... .(is because) my husband was aware, it’s possible, for him to gain sole custody if I accuse him of that and the pieces of the investigation are not solid.


Does CPS know that your H had a conversation with you Thursday morning to announce his intentions to file for divorce?

(H) may have recorded the last conversation we had, that morning, the same day I had to take S5 in to mandatory report. That conversation is basically him saying he wants to separate, and my begging him not to yet. I knew I had to try to prevent him from getting a quick attorney appointment or filing that morning while S5 and I were at homeschool group. (It was the first day of group and we shouldn’t miss it).

So, I said a lot of things in that conversation that I did not mean at all. My end of the converwas designed to buy me time that day.

Has your H recorded your conversations before?

After he told you about the divorce, you and S5 went to homeschool group (important first meeting), got lunch, then filed the report?

Thursday after our homeschool group (it was the first meeting with that group, we couldn’t miss it) I got us some lunch at the drive through and took us to social services. The investigation and all the pieces evolved from there.


Or was it Friday that you reported?

Fri 8/31

Today was earth shattering. S5 and I are safe, under care of social services and staying in the upstairs spare room at a friends house. I have friends who have stepped up, taken us in, and signed paperwork with social services to be physically responsible for us.

I had to mandatory report to child protective services today.

You reported to CPS on Friday and then an emergency protection order was granted, then you moved in with friends?

S5 disclosed to me, sexual abuse, perpetrated by his dad. Emergency protection order granted.

And then today is the hearing to determine whether it holds or not?

CPS says that I am not allowed to be alone with S5 and it may be 4 to 6 months until I am allowed to do that.

It sounds like they have a lot of things to sort through, and want to understand what's going on.

I have to admit I'm having a hard time following myself. Do you wonder if your coaching of S5 about his private parts has encouraged him to give you information in order to make you happy?
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« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2018, 02:10:14 PM »

Thank you thank you, LNL!

I am waiting on the attorneys. This is tremendously helpful.

I will sort it all out for the thread when I get to my laptop later
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« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2018, 05:42:31 PM »

The scenarios LnL painted, child reporting accurately, child reporting falsely, child reporting falsely after being coached, don't quite explicitly explain another scenario I had in mind as a possibility after reading LnL's swimming story.  That is the possibility of the child, not having been coached explicitly, trying to help out a favored parent who he perceives as under threat, because that parent perceives a threat.  I've been in that situation as an adult victim, where it's clear what answer might help my protector to protect me more, and it took a bunch of adult maturity and integrity to say that the particular harm I was being asked about didn't happen.  Kids don't have that maturity.  One of the things that makes these situations so, so difficult is that when we are legitimately distressed about awful stuff in our marriage, our kids pick up on that even when we don't intend to send them messages.  Does that make sense?  I'm out here on the Internet, and won't pretend to know what happened, but since the situation is so complex and the stakes so high, wanted to share with you what I know about the potential dynamics at play.

RC
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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2018, 09:30:38 PM »

I reported to the cops what D6  (then D just about to turn 3) said to me about my ex-BIL (then 17).  

Little D said "butt" rather than the appropriate term.  She meant her vagina area.  We corrected the fact that we didn't teach the kids proper body part terms as young as possible. I know D5 got it from your H, I'm offering this to any parent in general. 

The cops made a referral to CPS anyway. I agree that CPS can be scary.  Upon my "exit interview" (I chose to meet the SS downtown rather than talking to get on the phone like my ex chose to... .I wanted to get a read on her on person and vice versa), it concluded with a bit so thinly veiled threat,  "we're closing the case for now but could reopen it very easily." Bureaucrat Speak... .give me a break. And,  "if you and their mom don't keep the kids safe,  we can remove them from your custody."  

That they said you aren't allowed unsupervised time must be hurtful and maybe scary,  but at least you are with your son.  

As for how this will unfold,  it's hard to say.  My kids (S was 5 at the time) told the cops differently than they did me (and their mom I later found out from her... .she hid things from me for months). We took our daughter to be examined as you did and just realizing that such places exist was horrific to me.  They told us that without physical evidence, they couldn't conclude anything.  Thus the cops dropped the criminal investigation  (my talk with CPS was the end of it).


Regarding your son's behaviors, are your friends aware of what happened specifically? It seems odd that CPS is telling you that you can't see your son unsupervised but there isn't an enforceable protocol in place.  
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« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2018, 09:39:39 AM »

The cops made a referral to CPS anyway... .As for how this will unfold,  it's hard to say.

Each agency has its own fiefdom:

Police will deal with an ongoing incident, try to get compliance but will stop short of enforcing an order.  I had that happen to me, I was told to "fix it at court".

Hospitals and other medical care facilities such as urgent care also deal with the incident at hand.  My ex had our son down at the local children's hospital several times with her typical "my son told me... ."  Only one time did an ER doctor call me.  My son was still there and I commended her for contacting me, I explained my ex had a pattern of trying to make me look bad with all those visits.  She replied, "No, this is ER, this call is NOT about the history, we need to know what you drugged your child with so we can determine how to address the reported symptoms."  It turned out to be absolutely no concern to the ER staff, but I was so jaded that they never clued me in before, that was the only time I got to see my son while he was still there.  Usually I had to check with their medical records department to ascertain if anything had happened since my last inquiry.  In time they got to recognize me.  They must have felt sorry for me since I generally got copies without paying the usual copying fees.

CPS deals with allegations that could turn out to be 'substantive' child abuse, neglect or endangerment.  In my case they were all closed, though one did rigger an investigation before also being closed.  It was the one written report I received, I did request it but it was a form listing "unsubstantiated".  IMO, one spanking incident doesn't rise to the level of being 'actionable'.  Maybe they jumped in with strict rules for you because they didn't know the entire situation at first.  Hopefully there will be enough information presented at court to loosen the restrictions on you.

However, if court appears to be throwing the book at you, or continuing to do so, then you may want to ask them for some sort of evaluation, observing your relationship with your child in sessions, more than a couple interviews that are more like snapshots.  That way they can verify your child feels safe and relaxed with you and that you're not a risk to him.

Another thought, if they are wanting to order parenting classes, on the surface that's fine, in most courts including mine, it is standard for all divorcing parents to be required to attend those classes.  So no big deal to take parenting classes.  But get the order to state that both parents are required to take those classes.  That way it can't ever be claimed you were singled out for bad behavior.  Is your case separate from your spouse's case?  I'm not a lawyer so I don't know how that is handled but if you can't get that inclusive wording then at least try for the court to include something essentially like, "All parents in this court are ordered to take parenting classes.  Mother is ordered to attend parenting classes but since Father's case is separate, his orders are not included here."  Does that make sense?  What you don't want is to appear singled out for substantive misbehavior.
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« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2018, 10:59:15 AM »

Hi Dig,

I have been thinking of you and praying for you. I know this is a very difficult situation you are in. I am sorry to hear that the social worker is being ugly to you. The last one I had, when I made a report to CPS because my h was under the influence of amphetamines and had run off with my son, was also young and had a very aggressive bulldog demeanor. She treated me as if I was the one being investigated, even though I had made the report. It was very frustrating and upsetting. I really feel for you because you have been through so much already, and having someone talk bad to you and treat you as if you had done something to deserve restrictions around your own child is very humiliating and adds a level of stress on top of an already stressful situation.
           

My guess is that CPS placed these restrictions on you because you did not immediately report to either their agency or to law enforcement. As I have said before, I understand your reasons for waiting, but CPS tends to have black-and-white thinking when it comes to things like this. Also, as I have said before, I cannot speak for all CPS personnel but in my experience most of them are less interested in facts and more interested in fault finding and use threats (either veiled or overt), coercion, manipulation, and abuse of power. My experience with CPS could be paralleled to my experience in an abusive relationship. It's quite scary.

It is good that you have a lawyer that was retained by you and not court-appointed. Perhaps your lawyer will be able to negotiate a lift on the supervisory restrictions. They may want you to participate in parenting classes, and as mentioned before, those would probably be necessary in a divorce as well. In my state, the parenting classes for CPS cases and the parenting classes for divorce are different, and the divorce classes cannot be substituted for the CPS requirement. Not sure about the other way around. The classes I took focused on a "nurturing parent" approach and were conducted at the local child abuse prevention center. They may also want you to put s5 in trauma-focused therapy for kids, which will probably include play therapy due to his age, and may want you to attend some type of support group for parents of abused children. Just speculating based on what I have seen both in my experience and other people I have talked to who have been through a CPS investigation.

No matter what anyone says to you Dig, hold to your truth, which is that you know in your heart that every decision you made was based on what would be best for you and your child. You have been striving to form a plan that would provide the most safety and security for you and s5, and you have done an excellent job functioning under such extremely difficult conditions. You were taking action long ago to plan a safe exit. From what I have seen you writing on these boards, you are a conscientious, loving and attentive mother.

Here is a verse that I hold on to when I feel like the enemy is attacking me with regards to my children:

"Even the captives of the mighty will be taken, and the prey of the tyrant shall be rescued, for I will contend with those who contend with you, and I will save your children."  (Isaiah 49:25)

Praying that you receive strength, comfort, and peace, Dig.

Redeemed
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« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2018, 11:31:30 PM »

Thank you all.  I have been catching up reading all the kind words and support here while I’m falling asleep. I spent the day “earning my keep”’so to speak. I spent the day cleaning house for the couple who rescued us. I want to write more, starting with LNL’s awesome timeline and questiones. I’m just so so tired.  I will be up early hopefully and can write before S5 wakes up.
Dig
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« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2018, 01:19:25 PM »

Thanks for the update.  Let us know about LnL's questions when you have a quiet moment.

RC
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« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2018, 04:53:13 PM »

Do you mean that you have these coaching conversations with him regularly?
A: no, just sometimes, like when he was still in diapers, I’d sometimes tell him the proper names for his parts when I was changing him. Or now that he’s not in diapers, sometimes when he was in the bath, I’d tell him to wash his private parts, and sometimes ask him to tel me the names as he washed them, to make sure he remembered (penis, testicles,anus). Sometimes. I’d have him say, “my parts belong to me” or sometimes add, nobody is supposed to see them. A few times  I’d tell him that if  anybody ever saw them or if he saw anybody else’s, or if anybody tried to touch his or make him touch theirs, that was bad/wrong and he needed to tell me immediately, so I could keep him safe.

NOW that  explanatiom is something I’m terrified to testify to,  because little nuances of meaning can be material for the opposing attorney to tear me apart with. I need some
Guidance through that.

Just to make sure we're following how things unfolded (there are a lot of moving parts and I have a hard time with timelines - dyslexia with dates/times).

Mon 8/27

It was Mon night when H touched S5.     YES.

S5 mentions it the next day.    YES, on our way home from town that night, in the van.

Tues 8/28

Does CPS know about that recording and what happened that night? YES, both the audio from my recorder I was wearing, and the video from my phone where S5 showed me in the house where it happened. CPS watched my cell phone video, but did not listen to the audio. I gave copies of each to the sheriff investigator. Not sure if CPS has them.

Wed 8/29

Ah, ok. I see. S5 told you what happened to him Monday night, but you didn't have indisputable evidence (it was just S5 showing you where it happened, recorded on audio/video). So you left him at home with his dad Wed because of what an attorney told you a few years ago, that you needed proof. Leaving him home Wednesday night was to help you get proof? YES. I bought a set of video recorders Wednesday afternoon, set them up while my husband was gone. BUT, CPS only knows of the audio recorder I left in the house. I did not elaborate to include the video ones. S5 told me it didn’t happen again. So I haven’t even checked the files on the recorder to make sure. I probably need to do that.

Your attorney said there had to be indisputable evidence of molestation. Without that evidence, you could not get full joint custody (I'm guessing you mean full sole custody?) YES, oops, sorry!
 And that I could be blamed for coaching him, S5 not be believed, or S5 could recant, and I could lose all custody and sole custody actually given to my husband!

There wasn't any evidence, though, or am I missing something? The only evidence as of now, is the audio and video of s5’s disclosure to me, and a forensic interview the authorities did with S5. It was done by a specialty, kids sexual abuse professional.

Thurs 8/30
I guess they don't know what happened on Monday... .

How did CPS respond when you told them you waited to report because you thought H had coached S5 to tell you that he (H) had sexually molested his son?  

That it didn’t matter, I should have known to report it anyway, especially with my graduate degree I’m working on (MA, LPC). Licensed professional counselor.
 

Does CPS know that your H had a conversation with you Thursday morning to announce his intentions to file for divorce?

I am not sure. Probably. They spoke with my husband on the phone, so I am assuming, that is going to be his “story”, that I made this up because of that. When I went back in the house with the deputy, to get a weeks worth of clothes, after he was served with the protection order, there was an old fashioned tape recorder sitting on his dresser. So he may have recorded that conversation. I did record it, on my watch, with audio and video. But I haven’t mentioned my recording of that to anybody yet. It doesn’t seem necessary, and could land me in more hot water.

Has your H recorded your conversations before?

YES, I discovered one in the safe. A few weeks ago, I secretly hired a locksmith to get the code to the safe, while he was at work. I copied the recording he had, from last summer, of a phone conversation, where once again, he was threatening to move out...

After he told you about the divorce, you and S5 went to homeschool group (important first meeting), got lunch, then filed the report?

He never used the word divorce, only “separation”. YES, S5 and I went to homeschool group, got lunch, and filed the report. My husband was off all day, so I knew he would have time to file for separation (maybe) that morning, since homeschool lasted until noon.

We spent the rest of Thursday with the authorities, and finally landed with friends, at bedtime. We left for homeschool group, and I was prepared, we were NOT going home that night, or likely again, for a long long time.

The friends are our “out of home safety plan” written up and agreed to by CPS. They are not allowed to leave me alone with S5, ever. So they are tied to me, can’t really function like normal, and S5 and I are missing usual activities like homeschool group and such, somewhat. If our friends rearrange their work activities, which they can a little because of the nature of their jobs, we can all go together to town.

My attorney is working on getting this changed. I signed a release form with CPS, for her to be able to talk with them. I haven’t heard back any updates yet. Release form was signed Thursday, 9/6.

Or was it Friday that you reported?

On Friday, I went to the judge to file an emergency protection order. (While S5 stayed with our friends who took us in Thursday night) It was granted.
Fri 8/31

You reported to CPS on Friday and then an emergency protection order was granted, then you moved in with friends?

And then today is the hearing to determine whether it holds or not?

UPDATE: the hearing happened; his attorneys called mine and informed they were NOT contesting the emergency protection order, and all agreed to keep things status quo.

It sounds like they have a lot of things to sort through, and want to understand what's going on.

I have to admit I'm having a hard time following myself. Do you wonder if your coaching of S5 about his private parts has encouraged him to give you information in order to make you happy?
No, I don’t. It was SO random. He started in the back seat, mommy I forgot to tell you something... .
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« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2018, 05:09:27 PM »

Continues from my answer to LNL’s post... .

We had not been around his dad all day, his dad was out of town for work. We had all day Tuesday by ourselves and it was a good day. S5 is a happy kid. I do peaceful parenting, along the lines of Rebecca Eanes book, “positive parenting” and Lori Petro’s website, “Teach through Love”. I’m mostly always happy with S5. It’s been this way since he was a baby; I did a lot of “attachment parenting” nurturing things, like babywearing, in woven wraps, with him on my back. He sometimes took a nap on my back while we were grocery shopping, or while I fixed supper.

But S5 is definitely at the age to prefer his daddy and has, quite frequently, as in, most every time his daddy was home from work. Which is ok! That’s good for a boy to love his daddy.

I need to write more, Turkish, Redeemed, Forever Dad... .your posts are SO encouraging and helpful. I have read them just before falling asleep each night.

I am cleaning house, doing light farm chores, grad school, homeschool Kindergarten, and working on attorney divorce papers. I apologize, I will write more when I can.
There’s a lot of assignments, quiz, reading, etc due tomorrow.

Dig
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« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2018, 06:25:28 PM »

I’m sorry, I answered LNL’s questions in the quote.  Hopefully, it will make sense whose lines are whose?
Dig
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Turkish
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« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2018, 07:07:35 PM »

What did he say specifically? My D2 told me "uncle 'Billy' touched my butt."  That isn't molestation but she said it when I was putting diaper cream on her private area which was red.  I had been figuring diaper rash. She indicated it in a way associated with her discomfort.

We stressed to the kids that touching in certain ways is ok if a medical necessity or helping with the bathroom. 
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« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2018, 10:44:57 PM »

Turkish, the answer to your question is... .well, super detailed and specific... .the worst of his words were, " daddy put his penis in my ass". ( I had taught him to say bottom, so he word ass is odd). It doesn't get more specific than that. And he said it while showing me where it happened, and he showed me where daddy put him laying face down on the living room floor, showed me where daddy was, behind him, and THEN said the quote above. I asked him, on video, "by any chance do you remember what daddy was wearing?" And s5 said, " he was all naked, and he made me all naked".
The forensic interviewer said, "we got it... .he did really really well".
So... .that's pretty specific, right? With the right words?
Ugh... my heart is just in knots repeating it. I would like to never have to repeat those words ever again, but something tells me, the attorneys will make me.
Dig

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« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2018, 10:48:36 PM »

Redeemed, thank you for the Bible verses... .I like those to repeat to myself and songs too.
I'm sorry we have both been through this. But knowing that you did and it will be ok eventually, that's encouraging to me.

Dig
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« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2018, 11:02:03 PM »

That's pretty darn specific, and horrifying. I'm sorry that you and he are going though this... .
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2018, 11:22:09 PM »

Dig, thanks for answering the questions, and for the updates.  Keep us posted.

RC
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« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2018, 06:36:24 AM »

That's what he told you Tuesday night?
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« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2018, 08:39:37 AM »

That's what he told you Tuesday night?

Yes, that's part of what he told me Tuesday night, the worst of what s5 said.  S5's words were so specific and so detailed, I wrestled with whether or not this was another one of those things his daddy coached him to say to me.

This incident came after a period of time where s5 had been taught the say things to me. But s5 has always told me the truth about the origin of those things, that's his daddy taught him to say them. 

I think it was Tuesday night, when we were walking from the van to the house,

I told s5, "thank you for telling me, that I believed him, but needed to ask,  did your daddy tell you to say these things to me? Are you obeying him, telling me this?"

S5's answer was, "No!  I'm disobeying him by telling you"

That's when I opened the house door, turned on the video on my phone, and asked him to show me where it happened, and got the graphic, clear statement from s5 that I answered for Turkish.

S5's disclosure began in the van, on the way home, into the house, and ended in the living room. S5 started talking in the van with his usual phrase, "mommy I need to tell you something... .last night, while you were gone, daddy... etc." I quickly turned on the audio recorder I wear. I need to go back and listen, what he said first, but part of it was what daddy made him wear, (a tank top and underwear).

I wonder, how severely questioned I will be about this in court, or will the recording I took suffice?

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« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2018, 12:22:00 PM »

I wonder, how severely questioned I will be about this in court, or will the recording I took suffice

Is there a court hearing scheduled?

How is S5 doing
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« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2018, 04:48:22 PM »

Is there a court hearing scheduled?

How is S5 doing


I think there is a court hearing scheduled, but I'm not sure when or what.   At the emergency protection order hearing, my husband's attorneys called mine, and said they were not going to contest the emergency protection order, and for things to stay exactly as they are, until they are more prepared, ready, for ... .I'm not sure exactly, the next hearing?  It was a later date in September.  I couldn't really hear, because the attorneys were at the judges booth by themselves, and I was sitting much further back, in the second row of the general seating, back behind the jury section.  So that's a question for my attorney... .what the next hearing is about. 

I think there will be a criminal hearing, based on s5's forensic interview. 

s5 is doing tremendously well, all things considered.  We are together, and that is huge for him.  The couple we are staying with is aware of the CPS restrictions on us not being alone together, so we try to be together in the house, or the barn, or wherever at all times.  That's hard on all of us, but we are diligent about it. 

My attorney thinks the restriction is extremely uncalled for, and a hardship that is unnecessary.  She had me go down to social services to sign a release of information, so she could talk to someone about our case, to try to get that restriction lifted as soon as possible.

S5 loves the couple we are with.  The farm, the animals, riding with them on the 4 wheeler from the house to the barn, that's awesome to him.  S5 is allowed to go with them on some of the safer farm chores, and with some of their hobby activities, like metal detecting, around the farm. 

They do not have children, and their 1 year anniversary is soon, next month.  So, s5's typical behaviors like, interrupting, talking loud, contradicting, and tantrums, are well, trying for them.  I have tried to gently tell s5, we are guests, and to be polite.  S5 is climbing the steep learning curve of house guest manners as a 5 year old.  I hope they don't ask us to leave.  We have our own space upstairs, so I'm trying to keep us there as much as possible. 

The driving to town part, for s5's typical activities is nearly impossible.  So, we won't do those things for a while.  Since I am not allowed to be alone with him, that means I'd have to have one of them ride with us, or pay someone to come with me, or to sit with him at the farmhouse while I go to town to see the attorney, and for court; that is hard. 

So, I have decided, we will stay put, miss a few weeks of activities and do what we can at the farmhouse.  For now.  But this can't stay so restricted forever.

dig 

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« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2018, 05:04:15 PM »

I've never heard of something like that, restrictions to prevent mom/child from being together, without supervision, during a CPS investigation. Do you have any sense of why CPS is insisting on it?

Even if you didn't mandatory report right away, that doesn't seem like a plausible reason for making sure you're never alone with S5. Does your L have a theory for why that restriction is in place?
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« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2018, 09:35:51 PM »

I've never heard of something like that, restrictions to prevent mom/child from being together, without supervision, during a CPS investigation. Do you have any sense of why CPS is insisting on it?

Even if you didn't mandatory report right away, that doesn't seem like a plausible reason for making sure you're never alone with S5. Does your L have a theory for why that restriction is in place?

That's just the concern my attorney and her assistant brought up.  They do not understand the reasoning either, and think it is unjustified.  The social worker is very very young, unmarried.  My attorney brought this up, and told me she needed me to go down to social services and sign a release of information so that she could go talk to them; she said, this safety plan seems entirely unjustified, and that she was going to go down there and try to do something about it.

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« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2018, 05:47:55 PM »

Staff only

This thread has been locked due to reaching the post limit.  Part 2 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329093.0;all
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