Please help me respond to this very provocative email from my BPD ex.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Background:

dBPDex-bf, together 2.5 years. lived together for two. Devalue, discard, dysregulation late last April, I moved out in June after he was totally dissociated/psychotic for two months straight.

He's been all over the map since I left, mostly NC, his doing, with occasional odd contacts, last time polite, to see if I wanted some of my baking ingredients from the house. (The Friday before last.)

Tonight, with no contact in between the message about the baking supplies, I received this:

Hi,

I have one question for you.

NOTE!
This is not an attempt to fix anything!
There is nothing to fix.
I don't assume that you will understand that. Simply because you don't have it in you.

If anything, this would be a simple try from my side to understand, to heal, to maybe overcome.
Been having 1-2 nightmares every night for months.

WHY on Earth (or any other place) did you decide to turn fists on me?
Was I really that horrible? Was I really that bad? Did I really deserve physical punishment?
So bad that your fists were the only solution you could think of?
Did you feel as if you did the right thing afterwards?

That's the question that's probably the worst.
Second place is why the psycho torment?
But I'm NOT asking YOU that. I already know why. No need for you to answer.

If you decide to answer my question, I kindly ask for you to be as short as possible.

To clarify: There was no "psycho torment" - at least not from me. I don't even know what he means here.

The subject of my "turning fists on him" has been brought up by him over and over and over again. He assaulted me physically three times during the relationship, always while drunk. The third and final time, he was twisting my arm so hard I thought he would break it. The pain was unbelievable, and he was screaming "F*CK YOU!" in my face, along with various other insults. I panicked, and yelled "Get the hell away from me, you're hurting me!" And yes, I slapped him, open handed, one time in the cheek with my free hand. My left one. The weaker of the two. It worked and he let me go. I had NEVER fought back before. This time, I was absolutely certain he'd break my arm. He was scaring the crap out of me. So I let him have it. I moved out shortly after and left him.

He has asked me about that one hit a million times, telling me "Don't say I did it first"!

Well, duh. You did.

He has even admitted this in therapy. He KNOWS this. That I snapped - ONE time - after three separate acts of physical aggression from him, and slapped him one time - not unnecessary force. Not in any way shape or form more painful than what he was doing to me. Just to startle him to get him to let go of my arm.

What the hell do I say to this email? Thanks in advance to anyone who has any suggestions.

And I do want to answer. Because I am sure he genuinely believes he is the victim here. I don't doubt he feels traumatized. I also don't doubt his perceptions are extremely distorted, and he can't see his part in any of it. The discard, the devaluation, the psychosis, and the constant verbal abuse and criticism, forcing me out of our shared home, a horrible distortion campaign against me which turned people we knew in common against me, and the cruelest insults you could ever imagine.

Hell I have a few questions for him too. But I doubt I'd get rational answers. But I do want to respond to this. I have no idea what to say, though.

[BasementDweller]

Background:

dBPDex-bf, together 2.5 years. lived together for two. Devalue, discard, dysregulation late last April, I moved out in June after he was totally dissociated/psychotic for two months straight.

He's been all over the map since I left, mostly NC, his doing, with occasional odd contacts, last time polite, to see if I wanted some of my baking ingredients from the house. (The Friday before last.)

Tonight, with no contact in between the message about the baking supplies, I received this:

Hi,

I have one question for you.

NOTE!
This is not an attempt to fix anything!
There is nothing to fix.
I don't assume that you will understand that. Simply because you don't have it in you.

If anything, this would be a simple try from my side to understand, to heal, to maybe overcome.
Been having 1-2 nightmares every night for months.

WHY on Earth (or any other place) did you decide to turn fists on me?
Was I really that horrible? Was I really that bad? Did I really deserve physical punishment?
So bad that your fists were the only solution you could think of?
Did you feel as if you did the right thing afterwards?

That's the question that's probably the worst.
Second place is why the psycho torment?
But I'm NOT asking YOU that. I already know why. No need for you to answer.

If you decide to answer my question, I kindly ask for you to be as short as possible.

To clarify: There was no "psycho torment" - at least not from me. I don't even know what he means here.

The subject of my "turning fists on him" has been brought up by him over and over and over again. He assaulted me physically three times during the relationship, always while drunk. The third and final time, he was twisting my arm so hard I thought he would break it. The pain was unbelievable, and he was screaming "F*CK YOU!" in my face, along with various other insults. I panicked, and yelled "Get the hell away from me, you're hurting me!" And yes, I slapped him, open handed, one time in the cheek with my free hand. My left one. The weaker of the two. It worked and he let me go. I had NEVER fought back before. This time, I was absolutely certain he'd break my arm. He was scaring the crap out of me. So I let him have it. I moved out shortly after and left him.

He has asked me about that one hit a million times, telling me "Don't say I did it first"!

Well, duh. You did.

He has even admitted this in therapy. He KNOWS this. That I snapped - ONE time - after three separate acts of physical aggression from him, and slapped him one time - not unnecessary force. Not in any way shape or form more painful than what he was doing to me. Just to startle him to get him to let go of my arm.

What the hell do I say to this email? Thanks in advance to anyone who has any suggestions.

And I do want to answer. Because I am sure he genuinely believes he is the victim here. I don't doubt he feels traumatized. I also don't doubt his perceptions are extremely distorted, and he can't see his part in any of it. The discard, the devaluation, the psychosis, and the constant verbal abuse and criticism, forcing me out of our shared home, a horrible distortion campaign against me which turned people we knew in common against me, and the cruelest insults you could ever imagine.

Hell I have a few questions for him too. But I doubt I'd get rational answers. But I do want to respond to this. I have no idea what to say, though.

[mama-wolf]

Hi BD,

I have been dealing with a lot of inflammatory communication from my stbx lately... .mostly about co-parenting with a lot of emotion rolled in there over the whole separation itself.  I know it's so frustrating and exhausting to deal with these kinds of messages that only focus on their perspective... .their "reality"... .while completely denying and devaluing us.

What the hell do I say to this email? Thanks in advance to anyone who has any suggestions.

And I do want to answer. Because I am sure he genuinely believes he is the victim here. I don't doubt he feels traumatized.

I was already composing my very simple response in my mind to remind you don't JADE.  You don't owe him a response, especially since it seems this has already come up before, and since this seems like just one more attempt to hook you. 

But then I saw where you said you really want to respond... .In that case, if you really can't avoid answering, my best recommendation is a very simple reply: 

"I was defending myself."

Nothing more... .

mw

[WileyCoyote]

I am not in your shoes (and I know that it is different from the inside of a situation) but as an outside observer I would say that you should not respond.

Why?  2 things.  

You said

"And I do want to answer. Because I am sure he genuinely believes he is the victim here. I don't doubt he feels traumatized. I also don't doubt his perceptions are extremely distorted, and he can't see his part in any of it. The discard, the devaluation, the psychosis, and the constant verbal abuse and criticism, forcing me out of our shared home, a horrible distortion campaign against me which turned people we knew in common against me, and the cruelest insults you could ever imagine."

What do you hope to achieve from responding. Do you think anything you say will change this?  Has it in the past?
Do you think that maybe he knows how much his assertions will bother you and make you respond and suck you back in?

Then you said this
"Well I have a few questions for him too. But I doubt I'd get rational answers."

I feel like you answered your own question there.  But the urge to answer is still there for you.  Why do you think that is?

[BasementDweller]

Hi, mama-wolf! Ugh... .I'm sorry to hear that you have been going through the ringer since your separation. I saw some of your posts about the emails you have been getting. You're getting a lot of guilt-tripping and defensiveness flung at you as well.  That's actually a great response. Thank you for that. Part of me wants to address the "psycho torment" part by saying something like "But you did ask. I'm sorry that's your perception. It's a good thing you answered your own question, because I didn't understand it at all."

But I'm sure that would give him more fuel.

Part of me really wants to tell him not to assume he "Knows what I do or don't have in me."

And an even bigger part wants to take all the first block of questions and say, "I could ask you all the same questions. If and when you feel comfortable doing so, I would be happy to sit and talk with you about the ways in which we both could have done better, and what we have learned from the experience."

I sincerely doubt he is ready for a rational sit down chat where he would take accountability for his portion of the conflict, though.

Hi, WileyCoyote! Thank you for your response... .I don't know why I want to respond. Not totally anyway. Answering might not help at all. But I still want to. I think maybe because he honestly believes I wanted to hurt him. And I didn't. I never wanted that. I actually would like to be able to be at peace with him someday, but it may be too soon. I definitely do not think he ever wants to be with me again. I think he just wants to vent.

But that's why I asked here before saying anything. I guess what I hoped to accomplish by answering was some validation of his pain - because I know it's genuine, and something non-defensive and non-JADE that does somehow communicate that I never wanted to hurt him, and that I regret that our relationship failed - because that's true. I also know I didn't always respond the best way I possibly could to some of his more bizarre and provocative behavior... .but I'm not proud of it. I never wanted any of it to come to this. But I never "tormented" him, and I would have NEVER wanted to raise a hand to him, but he was hurting me and scaring me and I panicked. I still hate myself for that, even if it was to defend myself, and get him to let go of me.

[Cromwell]

Hi BD

Is this not just a form of Scraping the Barrel to just get back in contact again as a door opening technique.

Theres not many guys out there who would be traumatised over a slap. Ive never met one at least. In fact all the guys I know who have had a good kicking in their lives, turned out better for it, myself included.

I think this is egging the pudding and hes just playing with you, he writes in a clear and articulate way, this is not a letter of someone in the midst of emotional torment.

What I can say is that, anything i did, and it was never physical, in a retaliation, was never forgotten, a grude was formed and it became stockpiled as ammunition for perpetuity.

Is this technique not known as "splicing" I think, where he has got ingrained in his mind what you have done = bad person, but conveniently erased his own conduct that led to it?

[BasementDweller]

Hi, Cromwell!

I realize he's articulate and soundly knows he's twisting the knife. I do believe he really sees himself as a wounded victim, though... .but there may be little I can do about that, as he's one of those "petulant borderliners" and that's what he does. That's nothing new.

It would be nice to be able to talk with him and achieve some kind of peaceful co-existence, but I'm not sure how to go about it, or if it is possible.

[WileyCoyote]

You said,
"But I never "tormented" him, and I would have NEVER wanted to raise a hand to him, but he was hurting me and scaring me and I panicked. I still hate myself for that, even if it was to defend myself, and get him to let go of me."

Oh BD ... .

You did NOTHING wrong in that split second.  You were in a no win situation and feared for your safety.  You already stated intellectually how your slap is MUCH different than his actions.  Yet somehow you feel guilty.  Do you think that he knows this about you, and is trying to suck you into defending yourself here?  I see it as a no win.

How much of the relationship did you try to get him to "finally understand" that you were a good person?  I say this with great kindness, because that is an obstacle that I struggle with.   I need to remember, and I urge you to remember,  You can't FORCE someone to see your love and kindness.

Do you really think you can wordsmith one final email that will get a resolution with kind understanding from him?  

I feel like we all struggle with that in different forms.  We just want some recognition of REALITY.  But the real reality is that will most likely never happen.  Sitting with that and being ok with it is the struggle.  

[Skip]

Irreconcilable differences.

There is nothing constructive left to be said on differences that couldn't be resolved in your (or any of our) relationships. You already know that.

He is struggling with what happened. So are you. For some reason that is manifesting for him on the "fists", but the wounds on both of you transcend any event, week, etc.

I might respond with something like (example only)... .

I don't know how to answer your question. There was a lot of passion between us when we come together and when we split apart. Our chapter is over and we are both grieving its end and embarking on the next chapter in our lives. I am sorry for the pain we both suffered. I am thankful for all the good that we shared. These memories will be with us always.

Let go with grace. Its a big part of Detaching.

[BasementDweller]

Thank you, WileyCoyote!   I really appreciate your support.

I so want to say this: I SO WANT TO.  

Hi,

I have one question for you.

NOTE!
This is not an attempt to fix anything!
There is nothing to fix.
I don't assume that you will understand that. Simply because you don't have it in you.


You have no idea what I do or don't have in me, it seems.

If anything, this would be a simple try from my side to understand, to heal, to maybe overcome.
Been having 1-2 nightmares every night for months.

Is that all? That would be a light evening for me.

WHY on Earth (or any other place) did you decide to turn fists on me?

I was defending myself.

Was I really that horrible? Was I really that bad? Did I really deserve physical punishment?
So bad that your fists were the only solution you could think of?
Did you feel as if you did the right thing afterwards?


I could ask you all the same questions. If and when you feel comfortable doing so, I would be happy to sit and talk with you about the ways in which we both could have done better, and what we have learned from the experience."


That's the question that's probably the worst.
Second place is why the psycho torment?
But I'm NOT asking YOU that.

You just asked it. I'm sorry - I don't understand the question.

I already know why. No need for you to answer.

Ok, good. Because I can't answer the invalid.

If you decide to answer my question, I kindly ask for you to be as short as possible.

Gotcha.

Skip, your answer is better. ;-) Thanks for that. I may sleep on it for the night and consider sending something like that.

[Skip]

Skip, your answer is better. ;-) Thanks for that. I may sleep on it for the night and consider sending something like that.

Sleeping on it is good.  You may want to write (and not send) that letter to get the emotion out.

I think sending a "release with grace" letter will help with closure and its something you can look back at (in the future) and feel dignified.

[BasementDweller]

I ended up modifying Skip's words just a little. I don't wish to engage this way with my ex, but my fierce sense of justice prevents me from ignoring the fact that 100% of his email STILL portrays him as the "helpless victim" and not one single word indicates that he recognizes that we are both "100% responsible for our 50% of the relationship". It's a laundry list of inflammatory questions meant to provoke guilt in me, as well as taunts, exaggeration, and irrelevant hyperbole. Typical stuff from him that I now can sniff out a mile away and will not take the bait on any longer. Am I sorry I hit him? Yes. Was it justified? I believe so, though it breaks my heart. Was it "fists" or one open hand, not used full strength? The latter. Was I a "psycho tormenter"? F*ck no. I was a loyal and loving partner with the patience of a saint until the bitter end.

No "I'm sorry for my part in things, but I am also hurt by what you did/said" from him.

THAT I could handle. That I would give some credit to. That would prompt me to really talk with him. But the fact that he seems completely unable to acknowledge any accountability on his part, for anything - still... .no. Just no.

I'm sorry about your nightmares, buddy. Imagine my nightmare when the person I loved turned into a cruel, raging, unrecognizable monster right before my very eyes, and ripped my entire life as I knew it out from underneath me. Imagine my nightmare when the man I committed myself to responded by throwing my love, loyalty, support, and devotion back in my face like a vat of caustic acid. Trouble is, I can't so fast and easily wake up from that and tell myself it wasn't real, now can I?

So many things I WANTED to say. But, as Skip said - dignity.

My response, sent about 12 hours ago:

Hi *****,

I don't know how to respond to this. There was a lot of passion between us, and times when we did not always act or react in the most effective ways, unfortunately. That chapter is long over. We are now in the next chapter of our lives. I'm sorry for any pain we may have suffered, and I'm very thankful and appreciative for the all the wonderful and amazing things that we shared. I wish you nothing but the best.

Note the very subtle reminder that WE did not always act or react effectively. He has not responded. I suspect he may not.

I removed the part about grieving, because he's not. He's still blaming and accusing and justifying his treatment of me by making himself the victim. His writing to really drive it home that "he's not attempting to fix things" begs the question: "Then why ARE you writing?" To stir the pot, or lash out - that's why. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem, aren't ya?

Also, I removed the part about "these memories will always be with us"... .because that's a given, but also, I felt that might provide a little bit of a reminder that he can continue to needle away at me because of his version of "the memories". If his memory wasn't completely distorted, I'd be more likely to have that conversation. But I don't even want to dignify his distortions and delusions by assigning them the term "memories".

I also chose to say "pain we may have suffered" and "all the wonderful and amazing things that we (have) shared" giving more credence and attention to the reality of the good times and not the perception of the bad.

He lived in a world of pain that I did not create. That's his world. I loved him, and I choose to focus on the memories of the good times we had because that's what is important to me and how I will proceed from here on in. He can do what he wants. My pain is fading fast, but I choose to keep the happy memories alive. He can't dictate that balance for me and I won't consent to his narrative of the relationship being a disaster, and him a victim. I saw it as so much more than that. I loved him with all my heart, and I forgive anything he may have said or done that was less than ideal. If he can't do that for me in return, then I'll do it for him.

I forgive both of us.

[Chitchat]

I would not reply.

I would report the assaults now to a domestic violence support organisation, wait for his next email, inform him then of your act, and say you will report him to police if there are further assaults or threats.

This will protect you against further violence. Also, his email is evidence of sorts of an assault by you on him, which I would not ignore.

The following is what I did with my partner after a very public assault on me by her and a vexatious legal threat.

We went no contact for two months. Then she reached out. I ignored three calls, but messaged in reply to a sunny holiday pic:

'You assaulted me on [date]. I waited for you and police at my house on [date], as you told me to. [They did not come.]

'I have contacted [agents]. If there are any more threats or assaults, I will go to police. Do you understand?'

Her reply was:

'Yes, I can, you can, OK. I'm just saying hi.'

One month after that reply I dialed her number in error. I immediately cancelled the call, but she called back. I did answer, and she said 'wrong number', taking 29 seconds over it and pretending to be someone else. I said, 'My name is [Chitchat],' and without thinking said, 'Bye bye', which had been a running joke between us from the start as being less final than 'goodbye', then hung up.

I don't know if this helps. I have at times been worried sick she will go into meltdown and harm herself. But in truth I see no signs yet of ownership or remorse. I feel certain she would have exploited any reply to her non-apology. There is no clear prospect yet of a healthy reconciliation, or of closure. I sense she does not accept even now that I won't cave in and continue to be her enabler. But (three months on from the attack) she is at least trying to reach out, and presumably intuits that I am not abandoning her, only enforcing boundaries, better late than never.

No violence.

No threats.

[BasementDweller]

Hi ChitChat - I did reply but it was super short, non-emotional, and total B.I.F.F.

Oy! I'm sorry you had to go through that, but I suspect your response to the photo had an impact. Did she reply after that?

[BasementDweller]

Hi BasementDweller

I see no signs yet of ownership or remorse. I feel certain she would have exploited any reply to her non-apology. There is no clear prospect yet of a healthy reconciliation, or of closure. I sense she does not accept even now that I won't cave in and continue to be her enabler. But (three months on from the attack) she is at least trying to reach out, and presumably intuits that I am not abandoning her, only enforcing boundaries, better late than never.

I think this is the case with my ex as well, ChitChat. It used to frustrate me so much, but after doing more research on BPD, talking to more people who have survived BPD relationships, and reflecting more on my past experiences with my ex now that the "emotional smoke" has cleared for me, I realize that I did the best I could at the time. It wasn't however the best I could have done had I known more then. But it is what it is.

I have to let go of a lot of my regrets, and some of the anger and frustration I felt toward him, because he genuinely has the emotional coping mechanisms of a small child. This is not to say he is not responsible for his own actions, nor should I make excuses for him, or say that he can NEVER control himself... .I just have to remember the limitations of the situation, and remember that I will not be able to have many of the reasonable interactions with him that I could have with a person who can better regulate their emotions.

[Chitchat]

So it is definitely over?

[Skip]

Hi *****,

I don't know how to respond to this. There was a lot of passion between us, and times when we did not always act or react in the most effective ways, unfortunately. That chapter is long over. We are now in the next chapter of our lives. I'm sorry for any pain we may have suffered, and I'm very thankful and appreciative for the all the wonderful and amazing things that we shared. I wish you nothing but the best.

I think you were wise to put the emotion aside (detach) and show your character here. I'd like to break this down for anyone reading.

In the end there is often a spinning drama triagle with both parties vying for victim by making the other party the persecutor.



This is the vulnerability statement: I don't know how to respond to this. There was a lot of passion between us, and times when we did not always act or react in the most effective ways, unfortunately.  It says that you are not invested in the drama in a way that doesn't create more drama.

  https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

[BasementDweller]

ChitChat - yes, it's over. He discarded me, and while I hoped for a short while that he'd reconsider, I realize now - I don't want it. I don't trust him. He was abusive to me, and he told terrible lies to other people about me in his "curtain call" distortion campaign. Your partner should have your back. I had his until the day I left. Hell, I still do. He didn't do the same for me. He threw me under the bus, and that's not what you should do to your partner. I could have handled some conflict, some neediness,  maybe found better ways to work around it - but the outright betrayal... .I can't. I draw the line at full blown slander.

Skip - thank you. It took me a bit to get there. When I was really hurting, I might have answered back by reminding him of how badly he hurt ME. I might have defensively "fed the triangle". But I don't care to play that game anymore. As you said, the drama doesn't interest me. I genuinely loved my partner (and I still do in many ways) so it's of no interest to me to nail him to the cross to make some sort of point. Yes, he hurt me. People can be hurtful. I pulled through, and I am doing pretty ok. I got out in one piece, I have a small but nice little apartment in a nice area, a good job, good friends, and a nice mellow guy that I spend a bit of time with on the weekends. Much like the great disco diva Gloria Gaynor "I will survive". ;-)

He's still in a lot of pain. He got the "long end of the stick", as it were... .he has the big house, the good job as well, his health, two great kids, a bunch of my stuff that I left there that I can't be bothered with right now, but he likes using, and a forgiving ex who never put him through legal, social, or financial hell - though I sure as hell could have. He has to live with BPD and himself. I guess that's punishment enough. It's astonishing that he chooses to keep picking the scab off the wound when he got off easy and is free to move on with his life, just as I have. Hell, I'd even be his friend and buy him a beer if he was down with it. But he wants to keep making me the bad guy. His loss, I guess. I'm damn good company! 

[Chitchat]

(Very nice quote in your signature, BasementDweller.)

[Cromwell]

Hi Basement

I think its good that you can find forgiveness, it took me awhile. It never stopped many of the emotions but it might have at least started the ball rolling.

I hope this recent email exchange doesnt put you back into the doldrums, I really noticed a downward change in tone since you got it from what you were recently come across as happy.

I think in the same vein, my life would be alright now, its just that I still feel some anxiety of bracing myself to get the same and have it tailspin my mood the day it happens. He hasnt responded to you, in terms of moving on, maybe its a good sign rather than to keep this back and forth exchange going that is hardly joy inducing.

[BasementDweller]

Hi Basement

I think its good that you can find forgiveness, it took me awhile. It never stopped many of the emotions but it might have at least started the ball rolling.

I hope this recent email exchange doesnt put you back into the doldrums, I really noticed a downward change in tone since you got it from what you were recently come across as happy.

I think in the same vein, my life would be alright now, its just that I still feel some anxiety of bracing myself to get the same and have it tailspin my mood the day it happens. He hasnt responded to you, in terms of moving on, maybe its a good sign rather than to keep this back and forth exchange going that is hardly joy inducing.

Hi there! Thank you for asking - I feel ok. Still relatively happy all things considered. It wasn't the greatest email to receive, but I didn't go full-blown doldrums. I promise.   I do feel a bit bad that he dwells in such a world of misery sometimes, simply because I do care about him as a person, but I also was a little irritated by his mail. Mainly because of the persistent refusal to accept that he also had a role in our conflicts, and the "victim mentality" he keeps embracing. But that's the nature of the BPD beast, and I'm not shocked or surprised by it anymore. I imagine I won't hear much back from him on that particular topic, at least not now, or not a direct response to my last message. I didn't give him anything to feed off of, I suspect. He wanted to stir the pot, but I kept the lid tamped down. I don't ever want to argue with that man again! It's exhausting.

[Cromwell]

Stir the pot Haha BD

I love it how your full of all these cookery puns

and yea, I can relate, once I eventually got used to the same strategy used over and over, it lost its initial shock value, became boring - not saying it never upset me, but it was more in an exasperated "sigh" here we go again, another madness inducing provocation.

[SerendipityChild]

His loss, I guess. I'm damn good company! 

This made me smile, BD. I hope he realizes how much he's lost. Kudos for remaining strong and inspiring

[BasementDweller]

Stir the pot Haha BD

I love it how your full of all these cookery puns

and yea, I can relate, once I eventually got used to the same strategy used over and over, it lost its initial shock value, became boring - not saying it never upset me, but it was more in an exasperated "sigh" here we go again, another madness inducing provocation.

That's how I feel about it too, Cromwell. When I was in the middle of it all, it was so upsetting and I often took the bait because I kind of just didn't know what I was dealing with. Now, from a distance, I see a lot more clearly that he is just dredging up the same old complaints that have been exaggerated, twisted, asked, and answered a million times already. It's like a compulsion for him, and a broken record for me now.

The food metaphors... .haha, yeah, I guess I DO do that. I tend to speak in metaphors quite often anyway. That's another thing my ex will miss - my teaching him American slang which he loved, and took great pride in how fluent and colloquial his English was becoming. Again, his loss! 

This made me smile, BD. I hope he realizes how much he's lost. Kudos for remaining strong and inspiring

Thank you, SC! I am doing my best to keep my chin up. I sincerely do hope that day comes. He did such a good job of telling me what sh!t I was in the end... .admittedly, it would give me a twinge of satisfaction to know that he snapped out of the "paint me black" phase and remembered how awesome he once thought I was. It might never happen. I won't hold my breath. But I'm popping open a bottle of Champagne if it does, haha.

[SerendipityChild]

He did such a good job of telling me what sh!t I was in the end... .

BD isn't that the only thing they know after the love bombing phase? Leaving us broken, with low self-esteem and feeling raw? We had to pick up those broken pieces and make ourselves whole again. I am glad you're already dating and seem to have so much fun. Enjoy every fun moment, you certainly deserve it

[BasementDweller]

BD isn't that the only thing they know after the love bombing phase? Leaving us broken, with low self-esteem and feeling raw? We had to pick up those broken pieces and make ourselves whole again. I am glad you're already dating and seem to have so much fun. Enjoy every fun moment, you certainly deserve it

Thank you, SC! I'm doing my best. The hardest part is looking back and trying to figure out what the hell happened to my partner. I had a full life with a man I loved and his two kids, and nor it has all vanished as if it never existed. I realize like many of us here, I don't think I ever really knew him at all.

The dating has been fun and I'm taking it slow, not rushing to define it or push the situation in any direction. It's amazing what a difference it make when there are only normal levels of emotional expression (or maybe for me and this guy, even more cautious than normal). We have already determined that we have very different socio-political viewpoints on two separate issues that are rather sensitive, and we talked about it, agreed to disagree, and actually laughed a little about how we are so much alike but can be diametrically opposed in a couple of areas. Neither of us took it personally or saw the other as an unreasonable person. If it was my ex, he'd have turned it into an all-out war that would never end. So the difference and the ease of relating to another non for the first time is years is mind-boggling.

How are you doing over there, SC?

[Skip]

Prior boyfriend

We have been together for two years. He has two wonderful kids whom I have bonded with, and they the same with me. We all live together. We have for a year and a half. It seemed at first to be great.

Current dating "friend"

It's amazing what a difference it make when there are only normal levels of emotional expression (or maybe for me and this guy, even more cautious than normal).

Be careful... .

... .the reason rebounds are so devastating is that we are living part of the old relationship in a new one and we are grieving and celebrating at the same time.

How does the new guy compare to the old guy at week 3?   

[BasementDweller]

Haha, Hi Skip! 

The "old guy" was "great" but intensely passionate and mildly overwhelming. Typical love-bomber. I thought he was just "European". ;-)

The "new guy" is really cautious and measured and not intense at all. Also European, but not insane.   (Not yet anyway.) He's nice and pleasant, but not love bomby. I don't feel any pressure or overwhelm. I don't see it so much as a rebound because 1.) It had been over four months since I had any intimate contact with my ex when we met. 2.) I wasn't even looking to meet anyone. I didn't feel a need. 3.) I see it as a very separate thing, and I don't really think about my ex when I'm hanging out with this guy. And I don't really think about the new guy when I am alone, processing thoughts of my ex. They're quite well compartmentalized.

In a nutshell, the two situations seem totally unrelated, at least to me. But if he were to declare tomorrow that he feels it's not working and we shouldn't progress I'd be quite ok with that. It wouldn't destroy me. If he said the opposite, I'd be ok with that too. I'm really not emotionally in deep here. I just like him. What's truly different about the two, is that with my ex I felt a weird undercurrent of unease from the get-go. I knew something was off about him. I just didn't quite get it. Maybe to say everything was "great" from the beginning was glossing things over. Everything was passionate and exciting. But maybe not "great". He was really intense. In retrospect, too much so.

I think after surviving such a relationship, my first "high conflict one" - I can safely say it will be my last. I think I'll be highly disinclined to entertain any "emotionally intense" relationships ever again, but if this new guy, or anyone else in the future were to not work out... .I could deal with that with much less pain, and still be quite ok being friends with the guy. In other words - that whole debacle with my ex was the most bizarre and devastating emotional hurdle I ever experienced. Anything else seems very survivable in comparison.

But yes - I will be careful. Promise.

[Skip]

I don't see it so much as a rebound because 1.) It had been over four months since I had any intimate contact with my ex when we met. 2.) I wasn't even looking to meet anyone. I didn't feel a need. 3.) I see it as a very separate thing, and I don't really think about my ex when I'm hanging out with this guy. And I don't really think about the new guy when I am alone, processing thoughts of my ex. They're quite well compartmentalized.

I think the more conventional way to assess "rebound" would be... .

1) this was the first relationship after a very significant relationship. You lived together as a family unit with kids.

2) you are still grieving the prior relationship - you were in deep emotional crisis - self isolated - deeply depressed within a couple of weeks of meeting this new guy.

3) Your first date was a planned sexual encounter - this is often a sign (most likely s subconsciously) of "replacing what has been missing with the prior relationship down" rather than starting a new relationship with a more typical courting. I'm not being judgemental of the sex, but rather pointing out what the first priority in this relationship was/is.

You're involved. That part is done. The most important thing is staying grounded and not selling yourself on an unrealistic reality. This is how many members get into troubled relationships.

This is why I say be careful.

[BasementDweller]

All good points, Skip - and definitely worthy of discussion and a thoughtful response.

However, today, I have bigger problems on my hands than my romantic affairs. I'm deep in the throes of a flu outbreak that is plaguing my workplace, and I'm mad sick, and home from work as are half of my department.   After spiking a fever and waking up with tonsils the size of golf balls, I finally went to the doctor. I've got the damn strep, on top of it all.

(Nothing like a good distraction from one's personal life.) 

So I am going to self-isolate a little longer, but not due to mental anguish this time, (purely physical/microbial/viral) and reply to your post properly when I feel less deliriously feverish. Thanks for your insight and feedback - good as always.  

[BasementDweller]

I think the more conventional way to assess "rebound" would be... .

Ah, ok. Gotcha. I have always had a drastically different definition of a "rebound". I have always understood it to be jumping DIRECTLY from one relationship to another, with either overlap toward the end, or a week or two in between, max. The "rebound person" would literally be the first thing that came along and made itself available. Therefore, the choice to take up with that person is based on desperation and not at all on genuine attraction or any kind of compatibility. The reason these relationships tend to crash and burn quickly is because there are based on nothing other than fast and easy availability, and utter desperation. I have never participated in these types of arrangements, nor would I want to.

1) this was the first relationship after a very significant relationship. You lived together as a family unit with kids.

That's true. Nothing to add here.

2) you are still grieving the prior relationship - you were in deep emotional crisis - self isolated - deeply depressed within a couple of weeks of meeting this new guy.

Also true. And I am still grieving to some degree, though in a much less acute and painful way. The self-isolation for me, though, is a very healthy sign. A good sign. I have to self-isolate in order to heal, and if you see me doing that, it's an unmistakable indicator that I am heavily involved in facilitating my own recovery. In the initial/acute stages of any kind of grief or turmoil for me, I have to self-isolate. It's what I do, because being alone is how I recharge. It's extremely therapeutic for me, and what I have to do at times like those. A lot can happen in a few weeks. If I spend 2-3 weeks exercising, eating right, focusing on myself, and my self-care, and shutting the world out so I can patch myself up, that's an excellent sign. If you see me finally return to the living, start communicating again, going out, taking pleasure in other people's company... .then the healing process is largely complete, or at least well underway. I don't come out of my shell until I feel more good than I do bad. So, by the time I met this guy, I was in a much better place than I was the day I moved away from my ex. I would not have even given the new guy the time of day if I wasn't ready to tackle life again.

3) Your first date was a planned sexual encounter - this is often a sign (most likely s subconsciously) of "replacing what has been missing with the prior relationship down" rather than starting a new relationship with a more typical courting. I'm not being judgemental of the sex, but rather pointing out what the first priority in this relationship was/is.

You're involved. That part is done. The most important thing is staying grounded and not selling yourself on an unrealistic reality. This is how many members get into troubled relationships.

This is why I say be careful.

Ok here is where I have to correct you a bit. Our first date, while spontaneous, was an all night (and well into the next day) event with zero intimate contact of any kind. We must have talked in great depth for 14+ hours. More phone/text conversation followed, and not right away, but eventually, a second date was planned. It was NOT a planned sexual encounter. At all. It was a planned dinner with me knowing full-well that I was not opposed to sex happening if it felt right. It never came up in conversation between he and I, but me being a human with biological urges... .I thought about it, sure. But I did not plan the date with the intent of immediately jumping into bed. And we didn't. Again, dinner, great conversation, talking all night, and no sexual contact until the next morning.

We spend far more time talking and exploring the city than we do "other stuff" and the priority really appears to be that we genuinely get on extremely well, and have very deep and meaningful conversations, and a lot of fun hanging out together. I would say that I am more sexually... .eh... .*forward* than he is, but I can also tell you that is NOT my priority. It's a nice bonus, but if this man were not my intellectual equal (and then some) I wouldn't even be there. For any reason.

I can assure you I have no unrealistic reality that I am subscribing to. I like this guy's company, and occasionally there is physical intimacy. If it gets deeper than that, or if it never does... .I'm ok with that. The reality I see is that I met a guy I enjoy and that's just one aspect of a very full and busy life that I (and he) have. It's pleasant. But my eggs are not all in that basket, and I am not looking to jump back into another serious commitment. I am also not opposed to it. I am proceeding with caution, but also... .a bit cavalier. I'm very grounded. This budding relationship (or whatever it is) is not my first and all consuming priority right now.

I am, and that's long overdue, I'd say.