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Author Topic: Empathetic listening  (Read 677 times)
JNChell
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« on: September 13, 2018, 07:43:43 PM »

Hello. I’m hoping to start a discussion on the tool of empathetic listening. I practiced this at work today with my supervisor. I’ll share a short backstory, then get to it.

I work in a manufacturing facility in a fledgling department. I fill a lead role (not a supervisor) and I’m responsible for keeping things rolling as problems arise. Our department is having a lot of trouble with finding flow, mostly due to upper management that won’t listen to skilled tradesmen. Anyway, I had a sit down with my boss to make a game plan on what jobs needed to be set up where and when. This discussion morphed into how he wasn’t being supported by upper management and that he is pretty stressed out because of this. During this, it clicked to me that I was validating him and we began to agree on proper solutions. The conversation gently shifted to his brother. He’s worried and annoyed by his brother and a sister in law that shows a pattern of running off and coming back. Two kids are involved in this dynamic and my boss even described how one of the kids called the police on the mother. I was able to slip “personality disorder” in just to see, but he has no idea. Anyway, I did more listening than talking. I let the conversation be about him. Fact of the matter, he and I butted heads for quite some time. I was wound tight due to my own situation. I think that he’s wound tight as well and might benefit from some support at work. Maybe it will help our department. Maybe it will help him as well.

I just wanted to share. Any feedback or experiences would be great.
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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2018, 11:41:54 PM »

That's a cool story! Sounds like you've found an ally,  perhaps.

I think giving others grace is never wrong. 

You've probably heard it said,  "assume makes an ass out of u and me." We never know what other people are going through. 
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 01:34:49 AM »

It's great that you found a new way to relate to this guy.  Good on you for taking the lead on that.  We all need to just be heard sometimes and giving him opportunity for that will no doubt strengthen your working relationship.

Can you identify what you did differently to how you might normally listen?  I find that using empathetic listening is easier when the topic is something or someone else other than myself.  If I'm the target, overriding the emotion driven internal dialogue is a real challenge and although I'm conscious of that I am not a Jedi yet.  Do you have any thoughts on or experience with that?

Great topic!

Love and light x
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JNChell
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 10:48:41 PM »

Turkish,

That's a cool story! Sounds like you've found an ally,  perhaps.

I think giving others grace is never wrong. 

You've probably heard it said,  "assume makes an ass out of u and me." We never know what other people are going through.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)


I’ve read here many times of you describing “giving grace”. I never really got it until now.

You know, I’ve been awful selfish in the fact that I don’t know what others are going through. I’m starting to treat people as such. I didn’t for a while. I was so wrapped up in my own crap. I couldn’t conceive that someone might be feeling bad. I’ve been reactive my whole life. I want to be considerate.
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JNChell
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2018, 11:04:53 PM »

Hi, HQ.

Can you identify what you did differently to how you might normally listen?  I find that using empathetic listening is easier when the topic is something or someone else other than myself.  If I'm the target, overriding the emotion driven internal dialogue is a real challenge and although I'm conscious of that I am not a Jedi yet.  Do you have any thoughts on or experience with that?

I really can’t identify anything here. It just happened. I realized it and went with it.

If the tables were turned I guess I would just talk. Depending on who I was talking to, I might allow myself to be vulnerable so that I could get out what needs gotten out. I don’t know Harley. It sucks that most of the people that we know don’t get it. I mean, they understand abuse, but they don’t understand PD’s and why we came to be with our partners.

I don’t really have any insight into why I had this conversation with my boss other than it just felt right.
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 09:57:04 AM »

we have this near the top of the toolbox in the "tools" section: https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

Excerpt
Empathy - an Incredible Life Skill

When someone asks me what is single most important life skill for supporting a loved one I say "empathy". I typically follow with "and many of us overestimate our own empathy skills".

... .

    Set Aside Personal Beliefs, Concerns and Agenda - Just for now, at least. Go into the conversation empty handed—with no personal expectations or goal of fixing anyone. Be willing to have your mind and perspective changed. Your only agenda is listening and trying to understand the other’s point of view.

    Remove Ourselves / Gain Perspective - When you take things personally, you cannot separate yourself enough to feel the other person’s pain. Detach enough so that you are not in a emotionally heightened state— do not allowing the other person’s behavior to upset you or trigger you.

    Be Present/ Be an Active Listener - Listen to the person in the moment, truly utilizing the skills of actively listening. Don't jump ahead, re-frame what they are saying and compare it to a personal experience you had, don't rush to project ahead, or to frame a response. When we do this we completely lose sight of the reason of our conversation in the first place, sharing information as a means to build, maintain and sustain the relationship.

    Getting Beyond the Facts / Relate - When the other person begins to share, focus on their feelings. Think of situations that you’ve experienced in the past that are similar. Just think about this - connect with it - don't share it. This will deepen your emotional insight into the other person’s plight.

    Talk to the Person's Inner-Child - When we visualize our child as their vulnerable inner-child we can lower and lessen our defenses, that will then allow us to want to preserve the relationship and communicate in an effective way.

    See Empathy as a Lifestyle, Not an Event - Make an effort to heal the past hurts, to remember to accentuate the positive, and to nurture the relationship on a daily basis. Most importantly, be mindful that when we are angry we can do a lot of damage and set things way back.

the article also discusses measurements of empathy, and how difficult it can be to assess our own empathy level.

about 95% of the time someone approaches me (not just me, this tends to be the case in general) to get me to listen/support them, its a triangulation situation. im conscious of that, and i try to practice good triangulation.

i tend to have one of two instincts. the first is to be a "peace maker"/rescuer. theres a fine line there, when it comes to triangulation. a good therapist, for example, knows where to draw it and how to be effective.

the other is more or less to tell the person what to do and how to do it. theres a fine line there too, between offering a hand, offering solutions that can help a person help themselves, vs disrespecting their individuality, or enabling them, or making myself a little too responsible for their struggles. its a line i dont always know how to walk.

so, triangulation doesnt clearly have a lot to do with "listening with empathy", but i see a lot of overlap in that the circumstances typically do, as well as the agenda we bring or dont bring to the conversation, which can impair or strengthen our ability to empathize.
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JNChell
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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 11:04:48 AM »

once removed, thanks for this.

ts a triangulation situation. im conscious of that, and i try to practice good triangulation.

I never viewed all of this from this angle, but I’m grateful that you have opened this up. It’s spot on. I’ve only viewed triangulation from a PD/victim POV. I’m starting to feel like I should carry a larger amount of responsibility as a citizen with the knowledge that I’m gaining here.

i tend to have one of two instincts. the first is to be a "peace maker"/rescuer. theres a fine line there

I’m the same way. This has manifested itself into physical action in the past. The fine line. I don’t toe that line anymore. It didn’t make me a peace maker. It made me an aggressive short term problem solver. A bandaid.

the other is more or less to tell the person what to do and how to do it. theres a fine line there too, between offering a hand, offering solutions that can help a person help themselves, vs disrespecting their individuality, or enabling them, or making myself a little too responsible for their struggles. its a line i dont always know how to walk.

I empathize with you here. My intentions can be good, but my communication can be very off. Way too pragmatic. I’m guilty of implementing facts and logic without finesse . This has blown up in my face many times.
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2018, 07:28:53 PM »

Hey, thanks for sharing this, JNChell

It sounds like you jumped a level with your communication skills!     I can relate with how empowering this feels.

One communication lesson I've learned in the last few years is how to ask a potential funder/collaborator for something big.  Short answer . . . You don't ask.  Rather you pitch the problem to your potential ally and enlist him or her in brainstorming solutions with you.  Solicit their expert advice.  Very often, and before you know it, a collaborative team will form, or you'll gain a piece of information or help that gets your project the next level.  (Super-exciting stuff.)

Excerpt
I don’t really have any insight into why I had this conversation with my boss other than it just felt right.

Nice job going with the flow.  This is also great feedback that your instincts were spot on in that moment (which I know isn't always the case). 

It's been a few days since the conversation happened.  How are things going this week?  Noticed any changes in how you and your boss are relating?
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 12:27:56 PM »

I’ve only viewed triangulation from a PD/victim POV

triangulation is everywhere - all around us, and something we all do. early in my learning about it, i viewed any hint of triangulation as a bad thing, that i needed to steadfastly avoid participating in, or bringing others into.

not (necessarily) so! i just need to be mindful about the role that i play.

our article talks about the Caring/Winning triangle, where it applies to empathetic listening

Excerpt
Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
JNChell
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 09:30:14 PM »

Hey, Insom. Thanks for chiming in.

One communication lesson I've learned in the last few years is how to ask a potential funder/collaborator for something big.  Short answer . . . You don't ask.  Rather you pitch the problem to your potential ally and enlist him or her in brainstorming solutions with you.  Solicit their expert advice.  Very often, and before you know it, a collaborative team will form, or you'll gain a piece of information or help that gets your project the next level.  (Super-exciting stuff.)

Agreed. I learned these techniques while working in a high pressure sales environment. From what you describe, though, it’s more about building than closing.

It's been a few days since the conversation happened.  How are things going this week?  Noticed any changes in how you and your boss are relating?

Things are going well between us. Like I said, we’ve butted heads in the past. He’s not much of a leader or assertive enough in a fledgling department that needs real direction. Our relationship is calm. I’ve accepted how he leads. I don’t have any control over that and see no need to get worked up over it anymore. It bothers me, but I can’t do anything about it.
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“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
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JNChell
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2018, 09:41:11 PM »

Hi, OR.

triangulation is everywhere - all around us, and something we all do. early in my learning about it, i viewed any hint of triangulation as a bad thing, that i needed to steadfastly avoid participating in, or bringing others into.

It is everywhere. Abolishing it from our lives would mean going into hiding. It’s as simple as someone trying to make us settle a humorous argument or agree on an opinion. I become uncomfortable when I feel it happening.

Thank you for the info and reminder. Much appreciated.

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 04:37:11 PM »

It’s as simple as someone trying to make us settle a humorous argument or agree on an opinion.

or us seeing a therapist. or posting here. or venting to a friend about our day.

I become uncomfortable when I feel it happening.

can you say more about this?
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JNChell
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 07:59:45 PM »

OR, yes, I’ll try.

can you say more about this?

I think that there can be healthy triangulation. Think tanks, negotiations and problem solving as long as these things are done in a civil and constructive manner. I also believe the same with what you’ve stated. If it’s a group effort, triangulation occurs because, for lack of better words, we take sides.

I become uncomfortable with it (now) because I feel an obligation to take a side or fill a role. Obviously this contradicts what I’m trying to learn and implement, but it’s an ingrained habit. It was fortified in my relationship with S3’s mom. It’s easy to know this, but I’m finding that it is difficult to practice this in real time situations. Instincts take over, and the right thing to do is an afterthought or regret. I’m trying. This stuff is hard.
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