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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Part 2: Would you consider this behavior frightening?  (Read 1519 times)
NeedsHelp
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« on: August 26, 2018, 07:11:04 AM »

Mod Note:  This thread was split from:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326998.0;all


It's been a while.  How are you doing?


I set up an appointment with another attorney and things fell through with childcare and transportation. I will try again. My H's behavior seems to have calmed down lately, but still on eggshells. We are getting ready to go through another stressful period at my house, due to H's career and I am worried that may cause things to heat up again. I am still taking a one day at a time approach. Seems like no matter what I do my S is now, and will grow up, paying a price he shouldn't have to. I am still trying to figure out how to make peace with that. Thank you for asking, and I'm sorry it has taken so long to reply.
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2018, 07:14:21 PM »

Let us know when you are able to meet with that new attorney.

Since you are a stay-at-home mom, I wonder if in your area you'd be in good shape to get the great majority of the parenting time.  It depends on local conditions.  It would be helpful to know if in your area your son's young age would have a bearing on how much parenting time you'd get (good to know, in case you'd be likely to get a smaller percentage if he were older, which might make you want to act sooner).  One thing to weigh is whether or not your son would be better off being completely free of inappropriate behavior for most of the time, in a safe environment you control, rather than being immersed in a single home where you're protecting him as best you can.  Yes, he would be exposed to inappropriate behavior, but when with you, he would be completely safe.  Complete safety all the time may not be a realistic goal.  But having him grow up and launch as a well-adjusted young man should be attainable.

Another option is to report the situation to Child Protective Services.  This is something to do with caution, since the results can be unpredictable.  I would run it by the shelter folks as well as a lawyer.  There is a chance, if the CPS folks are good, and you get to them with your story first, sounding as rational and balanced as you sound to us, that they could be helpful.

In re-reading your threads, I see that you said your husband was physically violent a while back, and you scored an 8 on MOSAIC.  That's high.  We haven't asked you about your husband's violence.  When was the most recent incident?  What happened?  When was the worst incident?  What happened?  I know that even if he is not violent now, you have to worry about what could happen.  Does the shelter have a weekly support group you could go to?  I understand it might take some effort to protect the time, figure out non-tracked transport, and figure out child care, but in order to build your strength to take action, you are going to need some in-person support on a regular basis.

WW
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livednlearned
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 09:10:58 AM »

My ex also tracked me. Back then, it was through a now-retired app called Google latitude that ex installed on my phone. If you are concerned about your phone having surveillance software on it, completely disconnect the battery -- that's the only way to disable any audio recording software. Some can record up to 15 feet away even when the phones are turned off.

I ended up buying a cheap pre-paid burner phone from Walmart and used that to make calls to attorneys. I also set up a PO Box for mail, and got a storage unit where I could keep important documents, nostalgic items, and anything I might need for my son or myself if things got ugly fast. My ex had a habit of locking me out of the house, so I also had a set of spare keys and ID hidden on the property just in case I needed them. I got a credit card in my name only and squirreled away money, a little bit at a time. n/BPDx was computer savvy so I avoided using a shared computer and did as much from the public library and school.

Another thing you might be able to do is look up the training manual for CPS in your state. Where I live, those manuals are online and they have a decision-tree describing next steps so that you can see exactly what happens when you place a call. For some reason, the DV shelter where I live was staffed by what looked to me like children  Young women barely out of high school who had good intensions and perhaps childhood experiences of DV, but from a practical perspective they were naive. Some police departments also have officers with a social work background, who are there to help with our kinds of situations. It probably depends on your tax base, but it might be worth calling to see if there is somewhere there you can talk to, and ask them questions about what exactly will happen if you call 911 during a DV incident, either toward you or your child. 

If you believe he is tracking your car, go with that instinct. It might be purely coincidence that he is pulling up behind you, and it could be that he has something installed. You will probably have a bit of a double life until this blows over, unfortunately 

Also, remember that your son has you. There is a lot of evidence and research about how children need only one sympathetic witness in their lives to offset adversity. That his biggest champion is you, his mother, makes it that much more powerful. The bigger influence on your son (aside from genetics) will be your protection and love, as well as teaching him skills to be emotionally resilient. He is fortunate that you are learning all of this now, while he's young.

In the book Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy, he gave me one of the biggest aha moments. Which is that how you manage stress and anxiety is how your son will manage his own. I was so fretful and tightly wound from worry. When we moved out and I had to recreate our lives, I got in touch with something deeply resilient, a sleeper cell that was there all along, waiting for safety. When I read Eddy's book, it helped me model for my son how to handle myself with difficult people and difficult situations, and a lot of that he has internalized.

This is hard. The hardest. And you can get through it. My ex was a former trial attorney and I ended up with full custody. It wasn't easy and I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy, and it took four years. But I went from having no backbone to one made of titanium.

It may not feel like it right now, but you are growing yours too. It's in there.

 
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 09:27:43 AM »

I know that even if he is not violent now, you have to worry about what could happen.

A truism here is that If it has been threatened, or even contemplated, then it will happen eventually given enough time.  That is why doing nothing or being passive, acquiescing or compliant are poor strategies.  Just as we need experienced proactive attorneys for a divorce or other court matter, we ourselves need to be proactive too... .not aggressive but definitely proactive and seeking practical solutions.
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 12:27:24 AM »

Hi,
Truly, your story could be mine when my son was that age. My son is now 5, and things have gotten much much worse. Some things I picked up along the way... .

If it looks like sexual grooming to you, it may be, but it does NOT hold up in court. The only guaranteed situation in court, is to have indisputable video evidence of actual sexual abuse.

It was recommended to me, my an attorney years ago, to record everything. Hidden, covert, and not to say anything.
See, the system is broken in its timing. Child protective services investigated at the drop of a hat, but if that comes back negative, it has all sorts of fallout.

I need to prevent 2 separate residences, to maintain one residence, to be able to legally record what my husband does in our house. So that’s what I’ve done. But I won’t lie, the situations get scarier and more serious. I am in the thick of it still.

Consider Seeing an attorney, privately, without him knowing.
The book I read was “incest, a mother’s worst nightmare”
I found it on amazon.

It’s also likely, the taunting dad parenting is intended to get a rise out of you. Mine does that. It’s horrible. Document. I send myself emails, typed from the bathroom. To an account he does not know exists, much less has the password to.

These boards have guided me through a lot of tough spots.
Welcome!
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 06:34:41 AM »


Complete safety all the time may not be a realistic goal.  But having him grow up and launch as a well-adjusted young man should be attainable.

Another option is to report the situation to Child Protective Services.  This is something to do with caution, since the results can be unpredictable.  I would run it by the shelter folks as well as a lawyer.  There is a chance, if the CPS folks are good, and you get to them with your story first, sounding as rational and balanced as you sound to us, that they could be helpful.

In re-reading your threads, I see that you said your husband was physically violent a while back, and you scored an 8 on MOSAIC.  That's high.  We haven't asked you about your husband's violence.  When was the most recent incident?  What happened?

WW



Thank you for responding to my post.

I am trying to accept the fact that I will not be able to intervene when my H does things to hurt our son if I leave. That is a hard pill to swallow but I am now realizing I just may HAVE to.

The most recent physical violence toward me was when we were in counseling over 6 months ago. He was extremely tense and defensive then. He started screaming at me in the car immediately after a session and driving fast and crazy. He drove to a parking lot and threatened to not take me back to pick up our son until I "communicated" with him. (We were just in counseling and to me that is a form of communication.) The counselor had just asked him to ease up on the pressure he was putting on me to "communicate." I think he felt a lack of control and was extremely angry. There were other incidents toward my son during this period and I am not sure if the purpose was to upset me or relieve his own anger.

It seems like he has been much more physically threatening to our son than me and his main way of controlling me is to keep me under constant fear of him filing divorce and what will happen to our son. He stands to lose a lot if I leave. We own a local "mom and pop" business and reputation is very important. Me leaving could hurt his image and ego and finances. He has been controlling the business and has aquired a huge amount of debt. He has no family he is close with other than his BPD mother who became obsessed with our son after he was born. It is a very complicated situation which makes me even more afraid for our son. I think the MOSAIC was so high because of the control issues, the fact that he has a gun and stands to lose (or feel the threat of losing) everything if I leave with our son.
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 01:00:16 AM »

Thank you for sharing those details with us.  It helps us understand your situation better.  It's great that you've visited a shelter and gotten some advice.  Do they run a support group?  You need to strengthen your support network.

I know you're concerned about traveling freely without him knowing where you are going.  You might be interested in this link on finding a hidden GPS tracker on your car.  They mention that visiting a car alarm place might be a good way to get some help.  If you let them know of your concern, a couple of helpful guys might be happy for the challenge of scouring your car looking for trouble.

Perhaps the shelter people could recommend someone to inspect your phone?  Turning it off when you're traveling somewhere you want to go undetected is a good first step, but may not be foolproof.  

Hmm... .try this.  Turn off your phone sometimes a ways away from home and see if he pulls up behind you when the phone is off.  If he continues to do so, then perhaps you have a tracking trojan that works when your phone is "off" or there's something in the car.  You'll want to do it quite a few times with the phone on and with it off to make sure you rule out coincidences.  In summary, you've got four possible cases:  no tracker, a tracker that only works when your phone is "on," a tracker that works even when your phone is "off," and a tracker in the car.  I know it sounds onerous, but it's worth the effort to start chipping away at this and get your freedom back.

Don't forget the low-tech possibility that he is hanging out in a parking lot or parked on a side street along your most likely route, and pulls behind you when you drive by.

Browsing safety came up earlier in the thread.  Take a look at this thread, Could I be found out?.

Another issue you mentioned was the violence around counseling.  Violence immediately after a counseling session, even in the car on the way home, is a "thing."  You can read more on this page on
why marriage counseling is not recommended in cases of domestic violence.

I'm sorry if I've asked this before, but what does your support network look like?  Is there anyone you can tell the whole truth to?  Does the DV shelter have a support group, or can they refer you to one?

WW
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 06:17:35 AM »

Quote from: livednlearned link=topic=326998.msg12996419#msg12996419

This is hard. The hardest. And you can get through it. My ex was a former trial attorney and I ended up with full custody. It wasn't easy and I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy, and it took four years. But I went from having no backbone to one made of titanium.


Thank you for all of the tips. They are very helpful. Being home with my son I do not have a lot of time to post as much as I would like. May I ask how you were able to pay for an attorney? I am pretty sure I will not get out of this without filing bankruptcy. There are very few ways to get money without him knowing and the credit card debt is extremely high. Credit cards are used for both business and personal expenses. I am so in the dark about everything going on with the finances, as he has multiple businesses and as far as I know has associated my name with two of them. He uses an accountant for taxes and our return for 2017 has still not been completed yet (supposedly due to a flaw made by the accountant). I never signed or sent any kind of email signature for 2016, yet somehow they were filed and completed in both our names. This all feels fishy to me, but questioning him on things leads to threats of divorce.
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2018, 06:27:47 AM »


Hi,
Truly, your story could be mine when my son was that age. My son is now 5, and things have gotten much much worse.

I need to prevent 2 separate residences, to maintain one residence, to be able to legally record what my husband does in our house. So that’s what I’ve done.

It’s also likely, the taunting dad parenting is intended to get a rise out of you. Mine does that. It’s horrible. Document.

Dig

Thank you for the advice. I am sorry you are going through all of that. It is so hard to believe these things can be going on and they are so wrong and you have to fight so hard with no guarantee of it stopping. Then try to pretend everything is normal in front of your child. By preventing 2 residences, does that mean you have to pay for and maintain them? Are you in the process of divorce?
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2018, 06:38:13 AM »


Do they run a support group?  You need to strengthen your support network.

I'm sorry if I've asked this before, but what does your support network look like?  Is there anyone you can tell the whole truth to?  Does the DV shelter have a support group, or can they refer you to one?

WW

I believe they do, but getting there undetected and having childcare for my son is the challenge I face. I also fear being recognized from the business and my picture being on social media and in the paper. I have not been involved with the business since my son was born, but they keep pulling file photos and using my face. I have a couple friends who know some of the story and an advocate. I am not able to speak with them often, as I am not sure if my phone conversations are being listened in on and I don't want my son to hear. He understands a lot now and repeats things. This could create an even more dangerous situation.
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2018, 08:28:27 AM »

May I ask how you were able to pay for an attorney?

I borrowed $5K for the retainer from family (complicated).

My ex and I also had a loan with my family and I didn't want them to get tangled up my divorce/money problems, so the day I left, I went to the bank and drafted from our home equity loan to pay them back. I essentially paid them back all but the $5K I used to retain a lawyer, which was a loan I eventually paid back. 

When I went through the $5K, my L allowed me to continue paying her by credit card because I was a conscientious client. I'm not sure if that's typical for lawyers to take credit cards for cases or not.

Financial dependence is a big part of leaving an abusive relationship. The DV shelter may know pro bono lawyers who can help you until there is some kind of judgment about money.

It is tricky to make it from date of separation until you get an order for spousal support, there's no doubt about it, especially when you are financially isolated. It won't be easy.

But in my situation, amazing things also happened. I can never forget the kindnesses and good fortune that I never anticipated to come my way. I ended up renting an apartment, and the property manager seemed to instinctively know what my situation was. She gave me a free garage so my car wouldn't be visible -- in the early days of my separation, I did not have to disclose my location. She also let me live in the apartment free for a month, and helped me furnish the place with discards from other units. Small things like that, too numerous to count, from people that were complete strangers.

There is a network of people out there who understand your story, even if you only tell a small part of it. My L worked pro bono toward the end of my custody battle. I discovered my strong female boss had been a victim of DV and she moved me to a nondescript office, had me talk to HR, gave me a raise, increased my hours, and basically paid it forward.

There were lots of days I felt like I was in complete darkness, but when I look back, I can see a trail of light the whole way.

I hope you find that same path forward. 
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2018, 09:51:39 AM »

When borrowing money to pay your expenses, always call it a loan.  If you say it was a gift then you don't have an obligation that would matter in divorce financial issues or a division of marital assets.  Not that you would tell your spouse now about a loan, but when the time comes for financial matters such as spousal support or splitting marital assets & debts then it can be listed.
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 04:16:22 AM »

Hi,
What I meant by “preventing 2 residences”, is that we share the marital home. There is no separation or divorce. Everything legally is joint. In my state, it is illegal to record or place recorders in a home that does not belong to you. SO, I am legally allowed to record, both audio and video of anything that goes on in my home. That’s why I needed to stay married, in the same house. If we were to separate, he would have his own residence, where anything could have happened, and there would have been no evidence in the way of audio or video recordings of his behavior.

I was in I guess, a pre-divorce phase. Collecting and gathering all the information, and preparing, as best I could. Divorce seems inevitable.

Something catastrophic has happened here with me in the past 48 hours, it looks like I am in a different stage now. Likely restraining or protective orders, I have no idea what comes next. I’ll post in my own thread asap.

The help have received here is phenomenal. I am so grateful. The crew here is amazing.

I am in such a weird place, I have been crying a while today, so I’m sorry not to be of much help at the moment. But I’ll say, listen to everything someone with wisdom tells you. And try to glean and apply what you can. I am literally just a ways ahead. I will find out what comes next tomorrow.

Dig
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 02:27:49 PM »


When borrowing money to pay your expenses, always call it a loan.  If you say it was a gift then you don't have an obligation that would matter in divorce financial issues or a division of marital assets. 


Thank you for this piece of advice. It is very helpful to know.
.
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 08:15:49 PM »


I am in such a weird place, I have been crying a while today, so I’m sorry not to be of much help at the moment. But I’ll say, listen to everything someone with wisdom tells you. And try to glean and apply what you can. I am literally just a ways ahead. I will find out what comes next tomorrow.


Oh no, I am sorry to hear something catastrophic has happened. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2018, 12:33:02 AM »

I believe they do, but getting there undetected and having childcare for my son is the challenge I face. I also fear being recognized from the business and my picture being on social media and in the paper. I have not been involved with the business since my son was born, but they keep pulling file photos and using my face. I have a couple friends who know some of the story and an advocate. I am not able to speak with them often, as I am not sure if my phone conversations are being listened in on and I don't want my son to hear. He understands a lot now and repeats things. This could create an even more dangerous situation.

It certainly sounds like a challenge.  If someone in the group recognized you from your business publicity, are you worried that they would breach confidentiality?  Or are you embarrassed to be recognized?  Consider whether those concerns might be outweighed by the benefits of fellowship and support.  The logistics are unfortunate, but sound like something many others have encountered.  I bet if you put your head together with the advocate and/or a friend you could solve it.  If you can form some outside connections, especially ones with whom you can be honest with about what is going on, your strength will begin to increase.

RC
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2018, 01:27:12 AM »

Excerpt
I have not been involved with the business since my son was born, but they keep pulling file photos and using my face.

Have you requested them not to use your photos anymore?  I don't know the legalities whether they still have the right to use your photos but perhaps a letter from a lawyer might get their attention?
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2018, 08:18:47 PM »


If someone in the group recognized you from your business publicity, are you worried that they would breach confidentiality?  Or are you embarrassed to be recognized? 

 If you can form some outside connections, especially ones with whom you can be honest with about what is going on, your strength will begin to increase.


Yes, these both concern me, and of course H has been busy with work and behavior has been better the past week since he has hardly been home at night. I was able to look over some of the behaviors I wrote down over the past few months, and the worst times seem to be when he complains of headaches and stomach problems. I noticed my son seems to cling during these times too, almost as if he senses it. I do feel myself getting weaker and weaker as time goes by mentally and physically.
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2018, 09:26:43 PM »


If you are concerned about your phone having surveillance software on it, completely disconnect the battery -- that's the only way to disable any audio recording software. Some can record up to 15 feet away even when the phones are turned off.

Another thing you might be able to do is look up the training manual for CPS in your state. Where I live, those manuals are online and they have a decision-tree describing next steps so that you can see exactly what happens when you place a call.

There is a lot of evidence and research about how children need only one sympathetic witness in their lives to offset adversity. That his biggest champion is you, his mother, makes it that much more powerful. The bigger influence on your son (aside from genetics) will be your protection and love, as well as teaching him skills to be emotionally resilient.

It may not feel like it right now, but you are growing yours too. It's in there.
 

Thank you so much for your entire post. The information is extremely helpful. I was not sure how much of it to quote.
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2018, 09:29:35 PM »

Have you requested them not to use your photos anymore? 

No, but it is a small big town and H knows a lot of people. If I made that request I'm sure it would come back around to him. Between him and his M, they have the town covered for gossip, connections, etc.
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2018, 10:33:56 PM »


Since you are a stay-at-home mom, I wonder if in your area you'd be in good shape to get the great majority of the parenting time.  It depends on local conditions.  It would be helpful to know if in your area your son's young age would have a bearing on how much parenting time you'd get (good to know, in case you'd be likely to get a smaller percentage if he were older, which might make you want to act sooner).  


The attorney I was able to speak with months ago said a standard parenting plan would be every other weekend, holidays and some time during summers and that is the way the courts here like to handle custody. I told him about some of the incidents, but did not provide documentation. I believe he did say that me being a stay at home parent would likely help. It is just so difficult imagining what  my S will go throigh in his alone time with his F and BPD grandmother. On the other hand, he has threatened separation/divorce so many times I cannot help but wonder if the two of them are plotting something and I would not be surprised. In that case, I was warned by the attorney they could possibly make up lies about me and get equal parenting time, which is an INCREDIBLY frightening thought.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2018, 01:00:51 AM »

Take a few moments and imagine two different scenarios.  As you imagine them, pay attention to how your body feels, any signs of tension.  If you feel tension, make a note of where and how much you feel it in each case.

First, imagine spending the next year under the current living arrangement.

Second, imagine spending the next year living separately, with your son seeing your husband every other weekend, some holidays, and some time in the summer.

Can you detect any difference in how your body feels when contemplating the two scenarios? 

WW
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2018, 06:24:06 AM »


Take a few moments and imagine two different scenarios.  As you imagine them, pay attention to how your body feels, any signs of tension.  If you feel tension, make a note of where and how much you feel it in each case.

Can you detect any difference in how your body feels when contemplating the two scenarios? 

WW

I feel huge relief for myself not living under the same roof every day. Imagining being here another year, my whole body is tense, especially my back and shoulers and my gut hurts. This would definietly be relieved while he is not around, but then when my S has to go visit with him it would return. I know they say kids are resilient, but my S already shows signs of being distrustful towards people. I think it is from a combination of my tension and his father's behavior. I am afraid this is already becoming a part of his personality. I am also afraid if I filed D and just said "here you go, he's yours for these times" it would not be enough. H has only his BPD mother as close family and for sure will feel abandoned and enraged and want to fight, disregarding what is in the best interest of S.

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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2018, 04:28:55 PM »

I feel huge relief for myself not living under the same roof every day. Imagining being here another year, my whole body is tense, especially my back and shoulers and my gut hurts. This would definietly be relieved while he is not around, but then when my S has to go visit with him it would return. I know they say kids are resilient, but my S already shows signs of being distrustful towards people. I think it is from a combination of my tension and his father's behavior. I am afraid this is already becoming a part of his personality. I am also afraid if I filed D and just said "here you go, he's yours for these times" it would not be enough. H has only his BPD mother as close family and for sure will feel abandoned and enraged and want to fight, disregarding what is in the best interest of S.

There is no easy answer here.  I do know that it's easy to underestimate the cost of staying, to both us and our children.  As a healthy mom with majority time, you would be a hugely powerful protective force in his life, not by physically shielding him, but by giving him unconditional, safe, love and encouraging him to have a healthy sense of self and boundaries.

Another concern is that as more time passes the risk increases of someone applying a "duty to care" argument against you, saying that you had a responsibility to intervene.  I know the logistics are difficult but it's important to get in front of a local lawyer and ask how to balance the need for proof with "duty to care."  This would be a good thing to ask the shelter people, too.

Which brings up Child Protective Services.  Every locality is different.  There are horror stories, but there are also situations where they can help.  There are also situations where it can be good to make contact with them on your terms, rather than ending up talking to them after they're brought in.  It depends very much on your particular county CPS organization, and it can depend hugely which caseworker you get.  In some cases, an experienced DV advocate can steer you to a particular CPS person to tell your story.  In another thread here, a member with experience with CPS advised another member to make sure to have her lawyer involved in CPS communications.  Is there an experienced DV advocate you can talk to in order to get the lay of the land?

RC
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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2018, 09:13:58 AM »


Another concern is that as more time passes the risk increases of someone applying a "duty to care" argument against you, saying that you had a responsibility to intervene.  I know the logistics are difficult but it's important to get in front of a local lawyer and ask how to balance the need for proof with "duty to care."  This would be a good thing to ask the shelter people, too.

Which brings up Child Protective Services.  Every locality is different.  There are horror stories, but there are also situations where they can help.  There are also situations where it can be good to make contact with them on your terms, rather than ending up talking to them after they're brought in.  

WW

These are very good points. I have been writing in a journal for almost a year and writing down things that have occurred and sought advice from the DV shelter and attorney 6 months ago now. I spoke with the same advocate in July. The time is going so fast. My son alternates between being afraid of my H and wanting his attention. I see a pattern between the migraines, my H's behavior and son's reaction to his father. I am convinced H's behavior is from mental illness and my S does want a relationship with his Dad. The advocate I spoke with has a legal background. I think it is time I figure a way to meet and speak with her again. The last time we spoke I was not willing to stay in the shelter unless I knew my H would have supervised visits only, so my son would be safe. While I still think this would be what's best for my S's safety, there are no bruises, burns, scars as the attorney made it sound like would be necessary for supervised visits to happen long term. My S is getting older and my concern is growing now that leaving his home and having no contact with his father could be damaging as well.
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2018, 11:41:36 AM »

There is no easy answer here.  I do know that it's easy to underestimate the cost of staying, to both us and our children.  As a healthy mom with majority time, you would be a hugely powerful protective force in his life, not by physically shielding him, but by giving him unconditional, safe, love and encouraging him to have a healthy sense of self and boundaries.

Another concern is that as more time passes the risk increases of someone applying a "duty to care" argument against you, saying that you had a responsibility to intervene.  I know the logistics are difficult but it's important to get in front of a local lawyer and ask how to balance the need for proof with "duty to care."  This would be a good thing to ask the shelter people, too.

Which brings up Child Protective Services.  Every locality is different.  There are horror stories, but there are also situations where they can help.  There are also situations where it can be good to make contact with them on your terms, rather than ending up talking to them after they're brought in.  It depends very much on your particular county CPS organization, and it can depend hugely which caseworker you get.  In some cases, an experienced DV advocate can steer you to a particular CPS person to tell your story.  In another thread here, a member with experience with CPS advised another member to make sure to have her lawyer involved in CPS communications.  Is there an experienced DV advocate you can talk to in order to get the lay of the land?

WW
,

Hi NeedsHelp,

That member was me. My CPS story is a "horror story", however, the first caseworker that I had was a very caring woman and I have no doubt that things would be different now if she had not retired. You said you lived in a small town, where your H and MIL are well known and connected. Do you think that CPS personnel in your town would be influenced by this?

The advocate that you spoke of with a legal background sounds like a valuable contact person. If she does not know of a CPS contact that could be a trustworthy support person, have you considered a child abuse advocacy center? I don't know what area you live in, but there are directories that can be found online. An advocate from one of these centers may be able to provide you with some information and perhaps guide you in making a safety plan for you and your son. These advocacy centers usually have personnel who are trained in dealing with children who have experienced abuse of all types, as well as trauma. They should also be able to answer some of your questions about the nature of the behavior of your h towards your son, and can even provide resources on teaching children (and adults) about what is appropriate vs. inappropriate contact. This may be valuable in the event that your h eventually may have parenting time alone with your son, even though your son is young.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have an s2 as well, and I had to make some very difficult decisions in order to protect him and keep him safe. Currently I am separated from my uBPDh, and I have had some very anxious moments trying to make decisions about the frequency and nature of visitation between them as well as worrying about any fallout I might experience as a result of my decisions. It is never an easy thing to have to protect a child from the other parent, while still recognizing the need for the child and the parent to maintain a r/s. In my case, it has less to do with inappropriate behaviors towards the child directly and more with choices my h made regarding drug use and reckless behavior that put my son and me in danger. Currently, my h is not using and his behavior towards my son is very loving. The issue I have is the history of domestic violence, and the fine line I have to walk between maintaining boundaries with regards to that while still allowing my son and his father to bond and spend time together. It can be exhausting, worrying constantly about whether or not you're making the "right" choice. Especially when there are different views of what is "right" by lawyers, courts, law enforcement, domestic violence advocates, child service agencies... .and so on.

I think it is great you are keeping a journal. I hope you are able to meet with and speak to the DV advocate again. My prayers are with you and your son in this situation.

Blessings and Peace,

Redeemed




Hi NeedsHelp

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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2018, 04:37:23 PM »

Bill Eddy's book, Don't Alienate the Kids, has a very good discussion of custody issues when dealing with a high conflict parent.  It was helpful to me in understanding why extreme custody solutions often don't turn out well.  My desire was to be a responsible parent, and it helped me see how a more moderate custody solution fits with responsible parenting.  It's worth reading.

WW
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2018, 04:55:22 PM »

My S is getting older and my concern is growing now that leaving his home and having no contact with his father could be damaging as well.

My son has no contact with his dad, and it is just as you say.

He would be much better off if he could apply learned skills, and to manage a relationship with his dad using those skills.
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 06:45:05 AM »


You said you lived in a small town, where your H and MIL are well known and connected. Do you think that CPS personnel in your town would be influenced by this?

Have you considered a child abuse advocacy center? An advocate from one of these centers may be able to provide you with some information and perhaps guide you in making a safety plan for you and your son. These advocacy centers usually have personnel who are trained in dealing with children who have experienced abuse of all types, as well as trauma.

The issue I have is the history of domestic violence, and the fine line I have to walk between maintaining boundaries with regards to that while still allowing my son and his father to bond and spend time together. It can be exhausting, worrying constantly about whether or not you're making the "right" choice.

Blessings and Peace,

Redeemed


In one word, yes.

I have not contacted a child advocacy center yet. The DV advocate gave me a list of some,  but I have to keep them in a locker away from home where H won't find them and do not want to call in front of my S. Maybe they could recommend parenting classes and I could somehow convince H to go with me while he is being "nice." I just never know how long the nice will be and what will trigger the abandonment fears and anger. A suggestion of taking a class could trigger it, or something said at a class could if he disagrees. I have also heard parenting classes are required in a divorce. I wish he were just the kind of person to listen and take advice, but he wants to be the one to write the book and create his own rules. Sorry, I just said a mouthful.

In your case, was your H physically violent toward you, or controlling/manipulative? The contolling part for me is very difficult because my S doesn't even know that the majority of how I live life right now is to please H. I know that is setting a bad example, but I am not sure at what age he will realize what's really going on. H can be so charming in public and in front of friends.

I am sorry you are going through what you are too, and I will pray for you and your S2 too.
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2018, 06:52:00 AM »

My son has no contact with his dad, and it is just as you say.

He would be much better off if he could apply learned skills, and to manage a relationship with his dad using those skills.

Is this because of violence/abuse?

I suppose a child advocacy center might be able to teach those skills post separation/divorce?
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2018, 07:50:04 AM »

Is this because of violence/abuse?

No, not violence/abuse.

He was engaged in chronic legal abuse (former trial attorney) in our case, and the judge put a gatekeeping order on him (didn't work). The high conflict/disordered behaviors once directed at me were shifted to the judge. The judge requested anger management classes, a second psyche eval, parenting classes, substance abuse treatment. When ex showed no sign of complying, the judge agreed to granting me full custody.

Ex did not take it well and disappeared from our son's life. He will occasionally text him. It's never asking about S17, it's usually pictures of ex with attractive women and things he has cooked. Some of them are the same things he posts publicly on FB, so they're more of a "look at me" than "how are you doing?"

I suppose a child advocacy center might be able to teach those skills post separation/divorce?

I learned them here, and from books like the one Wentworth describes (the best one, for my situation).

The skills are about raising emotionally resilient kids when one parent has a PD.

Say that ex called S17 a no good pumpkin head who has a donkey tail because I fornicated with four-legged animals.

Old parenting: "Your dad loves you very much and you don't have a pumpkin head. I absolutely did not do what he said I did and I will tell him not to say that to you."

Old parenting gets down to ex's level and validates his distortions by giving them a direct response, using son as a communication chamber.

New parenting: "Wow. How did you feel when he said that?"  "Why do you think he would say something like that?"  "I don't understand why he would say that. I am here for a hug and a listen when you feel like talking."

New parenting deftly removes ex from the conversation and focuses on the emotional intelligence of your child, getting him to become aware that what he feels is valid, demonstrating that he has a loving adult who puts those feelings first, which is the natural role of a parent. Most BPD parents reverse that role, expecting emotional validation from the child, which they can feel but often have no words for.

There are other skills, more age dependent. And different skills depending on how bad the alienation is.

A BPD parent tends to put the child right in the middle of your adult conflict. So we have to dissolve that middle position instead of engaging it.

I don't mean to oversimplify it. These are easy skills to understand and harder to put into practice in real life when the context is always shifting and conversations move quickly.
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2018, 08:22:12 AM »


He was engaged in chronic legal abuse (former trial attorney) in our case, and the judge put a gatekeeping order on him (didn't work). The high conflict/disordered behaviors once directed at me were shifted to the judge.

A BPD parent tends to put the child right in the middle of your adult conflict. So we have to dissolve that middle position instead of engaging it.

I don't mean to oversimplify it. These are easy skills to understand and harder to put into practice in real life when the context is always shifting and conversations move quickly.



So he pretty much "dug his own grave" and "showed his true colors," so to speak.

Yes, this is exactly what H does with no regard or empathy for S's feelings or clue that he is throwing him straight into the middle of arguments. Last time he threatened separation it was right in front of S and right after he allowed him to fall into the deep end of a pool to "teach him a lesson." S has no siblings to help buffer any of this either. This is another reason I find myself constantly catering to H, trying to protect my S.

I definitely need to read or listen to that book. I am always afraid if I tell my S that H's behaviors/comments about him are iconsiderate/inaccurate it will get back to H and there will be another battle to face. It will become my fault for critisizing H.
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2018, 09:00:19 AM »

So he pretty much "dug his own grave" and "showed his true colors," so to speak.

He was a former trial attorney representing himself. His true colors were not buffered by an attorney and the judge got a pretty clear picture of him.

I am always afraid if I tell my S that H's behaviors/comments about him are iconsiderate/inaccurate it will get back to H and there will be another battle to face. It will become my fault for critisizing H.

Your son knows the behaviors/comments are off.

Kids know. They may not have the words. They definitely have the feelings.

Our job is to help them trust those feelings.

They are desperately looking for direction from adults, from you. When they get the right response, they feel it and know it's true.

We build on this, one small effort at a time.

The hardest is when the BPD parent is abusing them and you have to stand by helplessly. If you are dealing with a safety issue, sometimes the best you can do is repair and recover with your son after the abuse. When I intervened, it only made things worse.

So I got ready to leave. My son started to have suicidal ideation at age 8 and that was the point I realized there's no choice, we had to go. I took a year to prepare my exit, and had a safety plan with multiple contingencies so I would not be too financially exposed.

There is nothing easy about any of this, and it is no walk in the park to leave your child with a BPD parent. The significant upside, however, is that your child is no longer in a chronic state of stress and anxiety -- there is an opportunity for those cortisol levels to come down when he's with you, in your home, with no abuse. And you start to get your strength back, making it easier to learn these skills and practice them with your son in a safe environment.
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2018, 12:05:31 AM »


In your case, was your H physically violent toward you, or controlling/manipulative? The contolling part for me is very difficult because my S doesn't even know that the majority of how I live life right now is to please H. I know that is setting a bad example, but I am not sure at what age he will realize what's really going on. H can be so charming in public and in front of friends.

I am sorry you are going through what you are too, and I will pray for you and your S2 too.

Thank you NeedsHelp,

Yes, my uBPDh was physically violent, as well as controlling, manipulative, emotionally and verbally abusive. He sometimes would threaten to check the odometer on the car, to see if I had been driving more miles than it took to go where I said I was going. He would destroy my property. He smashed at least two, maybe three phones of mine. Once I was driving my father's car, and he began to dysregulate and rage. He demanded I take him 45 minutes away to his mother's house, and he threw the gearshift into "park" while I was driving. He took money from me, he lied about everything, he gambled our money away, he constantly criticized and blamed me for everything- even things like the car suddenly needing repairs. He would say that my driving was the cause of the car needing to be repaired, and he would rage about it. He was super jealous and constantly threatened by any outside activity  I might have. It's a wonder I was able to keep my current job. He would dysregulate right before I was supposed to leave for work and I was constantly late. Sometimes he forced me to call in because he "needed me at home" and he liked to refer to me going to work when I was scheduled as me "running off to that job again."

He also had a recurring substance abuse problem, which only made the uBPD symptoms worse, plus threw a whole psychotic element in there that had lasting effects even during sober periods.

We are separated, and he is still a boundary buster and still trying to control, only he also tries to be manipulative to make me think that he is NOT trying to control me. This takes on various forms. Just tonight he went on a rambling tangent about how I went through traumatic things before he met me, and talked about my r/s with my late father, and said that probably because of the tense r/s I had with my dad that I sometimes think other people are trying to control me when they are really "just looking out for me". I recognized that as him trying to put the blame for what is still his attempt at controlling behavior off on me- "it's not me, it's you, you are taking your experience with your father and reacting to me as if I were him."

It's subtle, but I am catching the signs. Just because someone stops screaming, cursing, insulting, threatening and hitting you doesn't mean they have changed. He has just changed tactics, with the same agenda. I'm trying hard to learn how to set boundaries, and it is challenging. He doesn't like boundaries, so he has resorted to being more manipulative than outright bullying. He knows that I won't accept that anymore. He still thinks he can manipulate me. It's very exhausting and patience-trying.

I know that my son didn't realize how much of what I did was to appease or avoid conflict with my h. I do know that the violence affected him. He started to whine or cry out of anxiety if my husband got close to me, because he didn't know if he was about to hurt me again or not. I knew it was time to go when that happened, and in my case I was lucky that I had support from my coworkers because I didn't leave with a plan. It was a desperate decision, kind of a "now or never" thing. I wish I had started forming a plan long before it got so bad, but we have made it.

I hope to model healthy behaviors for my son, and give him a peaceful and secure environment. Currently I have a protective order, and any visitation s2 has with his father is at my discretion. If we do end up divorcing, though, that will probably change.

I hope you can get the support you need to make the best plan for you and your son.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed




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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2018, 07:13:00 AM »


Just because someone stops screaming, cursing, insulting, threatening and hitting you doesn't mean they have changed.

I do know that the violence affected him. He started to whine or cry out of anxiety if my husband got close to me, because he didn't know if he was about to hurt me again or not. I knew it was time to go when that happened, and in my case I was lucky that I had support from my coworkers because I didn't leave with a plan.

I hope to model healthy behaviors for my son, and give him a peaceful and secure environment. Currently I have a protective order, and any visitation s2 has with his father is at my discretion. If we do end up divorcing, though, that will probably change.

I hope you can get the support you need to make the best plan for you and your son.


This is true I know, but for some reason the hope is always there that they are changing, right before something bad happens again.

This sort of sounds like my s. He sometimes gets upset and says "no no no!" if h and I are in the same room. He feels the tension and is used to me staying busy to avoid conflict and trying to step in as best I can when h does something alarming to s. I know this is not healthy but am so afraid things will be worse if I am gone and they are alone together. I think I have read to many horror stories now about trying to protect your child and being the one put on trial.

I am still working on support and know I have to keep taking steps. I am sorry for what you are going through and wish you and your s the very best.
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2018, 09:47:58 AM »

This is true I know, but for some reason the hope is always there that they are changing, right before something bad happens again.

We sometimes use roller coasters as an example.  At first they're exhilarating, scary fun.  We are wired to crave the initial thrills, however those thrills fade over time with repetition.  That's why amusement parks are always building newer, different coasters, to lure the patrons to ride the latest new thrill.  Imagine if you had to ride a coaster all day, every day - and no aspirin.  Before long you'd be suffering motion sickness and who knows what else.  So we typically pose the question, "Will you get off the coaster the next time it rolls into the platform and thereby avoid the next sickening cycle?"

Have you ridden the coaster in Disney's Space Mountain?  It's all dark, you can't see the next turn or dive as you're whipsawed every which way.  Yes, like our lives around BPD behaviors.
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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2018, 01:01:22 AM »

I am always afraid if I tell my S that H's behaviors/comments about him are iconsiderate/inaccurate it will get back to H and there will be another battle to face. It will become my fault for critisizing H.

The key to this is LnL's advice to take your husband out of the equation.  Don't directly contradict what he says.  If your son says, "Dad said I have donkey whiskers," then you say, "Let me tell you a story about the day you were born.  When I first saw you, the first thing I noticed was those lovely brown eyes, and I fell in love with you instantly."  If your husband teaches him that it's manly to be rough with people and things, praise him when you see him being gentle, "You are being so gentle with that ladybug; I bet she feels safe on your hand."

RC
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« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2018, 06:50:20 AM »

Quote from: ForeverDad link=topic=326998.msg12998605#msg12998605
"Will you get off the coaster the next time it rolls into the platform and thereby avoid the next sickening cycle?"

Have you ridden the coaster in Disney's Space Mountain?  It's all dark, you can't see the next turn or dive as you're whipsawed every which way.  Yes, like our lives around BPD behaviors.

I want off and want the best possible life for my S. Of couse, H has been on best behavior again and S has been happy to see H, once again making me feel like I am just going crazy and imagined all the other things that have happened. H also has made a total wreck of the finances, with massive credit card debt. I have tried to stay away from touching anything in his name, and I have no idea where all the money is going with all the businesses. I see bank statements that are constantly overdrawn with fees being charged, but I dare not question or critisize him because he will somehow say it is my fault and threaten D again. Does anyone have suggestions on how I could find out what is going on without directly questioning him or where I might go to get some help with this? He deals with cash and I do worry about how he handles it because we are married. He has had tax returns filed the past couple years on both our behalf without me even signing anything. This has been very scary, but again the fear of him being alone with our son, in the instance of a D, has led me to allow all sorts of things I normally would not.
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« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2018, 07:19:25 AM »

It's great to hear from you.  A DV service may be able to offer legal and financial advice.  It's worth checking out.  A lot of women in similar situations will have these types of struggles to contend with.  Did you manage to make contact with an advocate for support?  I was surprised at the scope of the services that were offered when I did this.  They covered a great deal and things I'd not thought of as being possible came together for me.  If not within their own service, they would be able to refer you to trusted sources who have relevant experience, I'm sure.

How are you feeling at the moment? 

Love and light x
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« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2018, 07:46:14 AM »

H has been on best behavior again and S has been happy to see H, once again making me feel like I am just going crazy and imagined all the other things that have happened.

It might help to have a journal where you write down exactly what happened on one side of the page -- no editorializing. Just describe what happened, what he said, what he did, how you responded, what you did and said.

It helps to have something you can touch that represents what you experienced. Something you can read that is by you, for you.
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« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2018, 08:12:17 AM »

Lived has a really good point.  When things are going 'well' the unhealthy experiences can become blurry.  I can relate to that entirely.  Another way to do this if you're pressed for time or concerned about a journal being discovered is to post about new incidents here as they happen, so that you have something to refer back to.  Definitely capture all that you are able to pin down now as the further away these incidents get the less clear they can become in your mind.  My entire r/s now feels like a lifetime ago and it has only been 18 months since it ended.  So much has happened since and the mind can have a way of archiving uncomfortable memories quickly as a means to cope.

Love and light x 
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« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2018, 08:32:27 AM »


It's great to hear from you. Did you manage to make contact with an advocate for support?  I was surprised at the scope of the services that were offered when I did this. 

How are you feeling at the moment? 

Love and light x

Thank you. Thank you for your reply. I spoke with an advocate a couple months ago. Was hoping to again soon, as I feel I am being sucked back in and losing my strength. When his behavior toward S was frightening, it was clear to see I had to find a way out for myself and S. Now the behavior is not bad, and I am thinking I will forever be cast as a villian for leaving and S will not be safe alone with H. H had to have his M comitted to mental institutions many times throughout his lifetime to keep her out of jail. I think he knows the ropes as far as how to convince someone another person is crazy. I had a counselor, I was able to sneak off to, suggest that court mediators may be able to see through into what is really going on, but his behavior is so unpredictable. I think if he would show the angry/abusive side maybe they would see, but how he might respond is anyone's guess. He could totally pull of victim if it were only one or two sessions. I think he had the marriage conselor convinced for quite some time. Child care is still a challenge I face as well. I have someone who would watch S, but that person is out of town right now. I will keep trying. Thank you for the encoragement. :hug
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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2018, 08:38:32 AM »


It helps to have something you can touch that represents what you experienced. Something you can read that is by you, for you.

Thank you. I will keep journaling. It is getting tiring, but as I look back it does help remind me that some very messed up things really did happen, and in a pattern. I am sure there will be more, it's just anyone's guess what or when.
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« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2018, 06:14:11 PM »

If he is behaving well right now, use this time wisely to gather some support, information and advice from professionals.  It can be all too easy to fall into old habits of enjoying things being good and putting off thinking about the next storm.  Help yourself be prepared for that 'what next' by arming yourself with knowledge.  Knowing what you are going to do, when and how, relieves a lot of the anxiety when situations inevitably occur again.  
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« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2018, 10:32:09 PM »

Quote from: Harley Quinn link=topic=329190.msg13001128#msg13001128

When things are going 'well' the unhealthy experiences can become blurry.  I can relate to that entirely.  Another way to do this if you're pressed for time or concerned about a journal being discovered is to post about new incidents here as they happen, so that you have something to refer back to. 

Love and light x 

This is so true, especially with a young child who needs almost constant attention. You try to forget so you can move on and get through the day without dwelling on the negative and further upsetting your child, but you KNOW in your heart something is wrong and it builds. The other night H was trying to force S to lay on the floor with him and S did not want to and started crying and squirming. H looks to see if I'm watching and then lets him up shortly after. At least H let him up that time, but my guess is that if I weren't there he would have held him down even kicking and screaming until he gave up to show him who is in control. S had done nothing wrong. H just wanted to force him to lay on the floor with him. So I try to move on and be grateful I was there when it happened and he let him up. S is learning to keep H distracted and asks to play games at the table when H starts getting rough with him. I think he has picked up on that because I have done it a few times and sometimes works. I am grateful for that too. I think the distraction skills are useful, but also know they are not a definite "fix" for all the problems.
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« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2018, 07:42:38 AM »



Another concern is that as more time passes the risk increases of someone applying a "duty to care" argument against you, saying that you had a responsibility to intervene.  I know the logistics are difficult but it's important to get in front of a local lawyer and ask how to balance the need for proof with "duty to care."  This would be a good thing to ask the shelter people, too.

WW

I still have not been able to meet with the advocate again. The person who could watch S is back in town, but now sick. I am wondering if you know what would be considered appropriate "intervention." I am writing down how I intervene at home and what has worked. Would keeping in contact with an advocate or trying to get H in for counseling again or parenting classes be considered intervention? Thank you for your help.
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« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2018, 07:09:27 PM »

I still have not been able to meet with the advocate again. The person who could watch S is back in town, but now sick. I am wondering if you know what would be considered appropriate "intervention." I am writing down how I intervene at home and what has worked. Would keeping in contact with an advocate or trying to get H in for counseling again or parenting classes be considered intervention? Thank you for your help.

I am so sorry your thread hasn't been responded to in a timely fashion!  

What have you told the advocate in the past?  I believe the advocates are mandatory reporters of child abuse (it would be good to check this in your area).  If you have a good relationship with an advocate and are keeping them updated, that can be helpful -- you're being open with someone who's a mandatory reporter, which seems like pretty good evidence that you're exercising your duty to care.  Ideally you don't want to be surprised by a decision to report.  It would be helpful to understand the advocate's beliefs about what is reportable and what is not.  Different professionals have different opinions.  If things rise to a reportable threshold, then it is what it is.  You are going to want an advocate whose experience you trust.  A therapist is also a potential resource.  One thing that you can ask the professional you're working with is that if they decide things need to be reported, that you be present with them on the phone call to CPS, and that you make the report together.  That can change the dynamic of the beginning of the story.  Mother and therapist/advocate are coming to CPS together, therapist is not "telling on" an irresponsible mother.  An experienced advocate may also know or be able to identify from her network of contacts a CPS worker who is experienced and reasonable who can be approached personally, rather than going in the front door and catching whichever worker is taking new cases that day.

Please let us know how things have been going lately.

RC
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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2018, 12:23:54 PM »


 I believe the advocates are mandatory reporters of child abuse (it would be good to check this in your area).

 If you have a good relationship with an advocate and are keeping them updated, that can be helpful -- you're being open with someone who's a mandatory reporter, which seems like pretty good evidence that you're exercising your duty to care.

Please let us know how things have been going lately.

RC

Who would I ask to find this out? I thought everything I told them was confidential. The last time I was able to speak with an advocate was a couple months ago. Since then, H has been stopping any strange behaviors with S when he sees me looking and I have been able to create distractions. H has been working a lot and not home. Advocate did give me a card and said if anything happened and I needed help to call and they could pick me up. I am not sure if this would be a "safety plan."
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2018, 02:48:05 AM »

Who would I ask to find this out? I thought everything I told them was confidential. The last time I was able to speak with an advocate was a couple months ago. Since then, H has been stopping any strange behaviors with S when he sees me looking and I have been able to create distractions. H has been working a lot and not home. Advocate did give me a card and said if anything happened and I needed help to call and they could pick me up. I am not sure if this would be a "safety plan."

You might be able to find out by checking their Web site.  Did you sign any intake paperwork when you first spoke to them?  Often the intake paperwork has disclosures about things being confidential except in the case of suspected child abuse.

Many states have this kind of policy:
"By law, mandated reporters are physicians, nurses, social workers, day care staff, teachers, ministers and law enforcement officials."
You can Google, "who are mandatory reporters in [your state]"
My guess is that the advocates would be considered mandatory reporters.  You could just straight up ask them.

Having them able to pick you up would be part of a safety plan.  It would include other things like making sure you had a cell phone that was safe, access to credit cards and cash, clothes, transportation, and other things you'd need to function.  The National Domestic Violence Hotline Web site is a great resource and has a page on the Path to Safety and one titled, What is Safety Planning?

One other thing that might be worth doing is calling the National Child Abuse Hotline.  Their number is 1-800-422-4453.  You're in a tough situation, and they won't have a magic solution, but it might be helpful to talk to someone.  If you call, let us know if you think it's helpful.

Besides your concerns about your son, how are things going otherwise?

RC
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2018, 06:17:41 AM »

part of the safety plan might also be having duplicates of any important papers, or moving things you have nostalgic feelings about to a safe location, like a storage locker or friend's house. If you think there is a possibility you'll have to leave abruptly, it might also be wise to have a back-up purse somewhere, with a prepaid phone, a credit card, extra keys, some ID, and cash if that's doable.

My son's father would move my purse somewhere and then lock me out of the house, and (unwittingly) helped me walk through exactly what happens when you leave abruptly, with nothing 

So I ended up storing extra clothing and toiletries in a locker that I could access just in case.

Part of your safety plan might also be to learn what you can about how things work with CPS where you live, just in case there is a mandatory report that throws you into that system. Some states will post the CPS code/statutes (or whatever they're called) online, and some (like mine) have their training manuals online. 
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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2018, 10:57:35 AM »

Part of your safety plan might also be to learn what you can about how things work with CPS where you live, just in case there is a mandatory report that throws you into that system. Some states will post the CPS code/statutes (or whatever they're called) online, and some (like mine) have their training manuals online. 

I like this suggestion a lot.  There's a reasonable chance you'll have to be dealing with CPS, and it makes a lot of sense to learn as much as you can about your local conditions.  Learning online about information for your state as livednlearned suggests is a great start.  But reaching out to advocates and a lawyer or two and asking questions about the specific CPS office and experiences in your county is important, too.  Armed with real info, you'll be able to make much better decisions, and may see options you didn't see before.

RC
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« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2018, 11:16:57 AM »


 Did you sign any intake paperwork when you first spoke to them?  Often the intake paperwork has disclosures about things being confidential except in the case of suspected child abuse.

Having them able to pick you up would be part of a safety plan.  It would include other things like making sure you had a cell phone that was safe, access to credit cards and cash, clothes, transportation, and other things you'd need to function.  

Besides your concerns about your son, how are things going otherwise?

RC

The first time I visited with her, she had me fill something out, but she did not require me to give my last name. I told her I was concerned about my identity being known and I was visiting because I wanted to know if it were possible I might be overreacting to behavior I was witnessing. I was hoping the answer would be yes. The last time I saw her she gave me a list of numbers I could anonymously call regarding H's behavior toward my S, since I told her I felt he is safer with me at this point as the attorney had advised me S would likely have unsupervised visits with H. I am able to intervene at home at this point and told her I think H has a mental illness that is causing his unpredictable behavior.

I am working on some of the other items you mentioned and was able to call one of the numbers but got voicemail.

I am meeting with a therapist soon and can discuss things with her. Just hoping childcare doesn't fall through.

I am feeling depressed, but hanging in there. H has been working a lot and distracted and not so focused on S, so that actually helps. I am going to try to update the advocate after I meet with the therapist.
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« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2018, 11:29:52 AM »

You are doing a great job.  Doing the right thing here is hard.  It would be easy to dive into denial, or to panic and react without a plan.  You're keeping your head, keeping your son's well-being in the front of your mind, and doing your homework.  Keep making those calls and visits, and keep us posted.

How are you doing on self care?  Are you able to get out and spend time with friends?  Are there any mom's groups you could join to give each other support, enjoy time together, and swap child care?

RC
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« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2018, 11:34:16 AM »


Part of your safety plan might also be to learn what you can about how things work with CPS where you live, just in case there is a mandatory report that throws you into that system. Some states will post the CPS code/statutes (or whatever they're called) online, and some (like mine) have their training manuals online.  

Thank you for this advice. I was able to find something online. It looked like (if I was reading it correctly) reports they decide to investigate are followed up on within 72 hours. If she had reported I think I would have heard something by now. I assume the advocate is waiting to hear back from me, as it was a few months between the times I have spoke with her in the past. I got the feeling she understood I am trying to keep my son as safe as possible under my care and preparing to make a quick exit if and when it is necessary. She did not seem pushy, but concerned and interested in helping.
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« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2018, 08:04:35 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached the post limit and was split.  Part 3 can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329534.0
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