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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: My wife (udx/BPD step mom) says she doesn’t know if she loves my autiistic son or not?  (Read 2412 times)
Red5
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« on: September 23, 2018, 10:19:47 PM »

She has said this before, over two years ago now, long story... .

BLUF is that she is very angry right now, big dysregulation, extinction burst, says she’s “done, don’t care, not going to be nice to S32(autistic) anymore”, .ie’ assist in his daily care,

And of course as per BPD playbook, it’s all my fault what happened... .

I wasn’t even in the house!

So, .what does it mean?; that I’d rather her just leave... .and not even have any inkling of an idea that this marraige should be saved?

No tears, no fear, no attempt (by me) for negotiation, I too feel like I’m done, been here many times before over the past half dozen years... .

But I am the default caretaker for my S32(autistic), he is my world, .

If she means what she says, then she needs to go, .period.

Feeling really beat up right now, it’s been a very long two weeks... .worthy of a whole nother thread as we just got through with hurricane Florence, .

Yeah, I feel nothing for her right now, just wish she’d go,

... .truely feel I’d be better of without her in my life, ugh ; (

She really went off tonight... .I stayed completely calm, and just let her run off the end of her chain,

Would you believe this was all over his shower time (again)... .yeah, apparently he stayed too long in his shower last night when this all started... .five minutes too long, and she lost it... .

This is a “gd” broken record with her... .

I really don’t need this $hit anymore ; (

Thanks for listening,

Red5
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 11:29:57 PM »

My son is ASD1, but it sounds like your son requires support,  maybe significant. 

If she's unable and unwilling to support you and him as a family unit,  what do you think you'll do now? Is your son ok? It sounds like she was alone with him and he took a little longer shower and this set her off?
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2018, 06:10:43 AM »

Red- as hurtful as this is, do you think it is one of those things said in the moment when she is dysregulated?

Later on she may not even recall saying it.

Right now the situation where you are is stressed- the hurricane has caused major issues for your area. I think this would put everyone out of sorts, including your son. He can't help it, but people with autism need routines and order, and I would think a hurricane would impact his moods as well. Your wife may be willing to help in more calm situations but it could be that two people who are not as capable of regulating their emotions may have aggravated each other.

I think all of you must be going through a lot right now.
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 09:17:53 AM »

I agree with Notwendy that you've all been under an exceptional amount of stress. However it seems like the length of his shower time has been high on her list of pet peeves before.

Trying to balance his needs with her meltdowns--you've been caught in the middle way too many times, Red5.

IDK if this is a factor in her dysregulations, but it seems that pwBPD want to be the primary focus of their marital partner and are jealous of anything or anyone else who is important to their partners. Ugh... .
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 10:25:16 AM »

Yes Turkish... .it was about shower time, I usually give him fifteen minutes... .if I did not limit his time, he would stay in the rain locker until the hot water ran out (autism),

As Wendy says, autism = ‘structure’ for best environment... .

I even got him one of those kitchen timers, and I set it for ten minutes so that when it goes off he knows it’s time to rinse up and finish up, .udx wife will “hawk” him and if he is just one second beyond his time she starts her $hit, this happens every single night unless I stand in her way, .he usually does just fine, on his own, a couple minutes either way is no big deal to me but to her it’s the freakin end of the world,

Same with him getting up and doing his bathroom time in the mornings, and getting dressed so forth and so on; I have him use his timer so he has an idea about how long his morning routine should take, .again she interferes... .and is rude, mean and snarky to him... .this is a constant with her,

She is quite the “authoritarian”... .ugh ; (

This goes on and on and on... .I do not understand why she has to be so as awnry this way,

And when she pushes him too far, he will get mad at her, who wouldn’t... .and of course this is perceived as him being dissresctful to her and she does seem to relish the punishment aspect, that’s where I draw the line and that’s where the fight comes, he’s my Son and at the point that she goes after him, BPD or not, she then has to deal with me, her actions then have consequences... .as after so many years my patience is gone, and “tools”’ be damed at that point,

I can take her $hit, but my Som should not have too,

Yes, she has the ability to anger my Son, the gentle giant that he is, he is a sweet and gentle soul, childlike... .but she can piss him off, and how does an autistic that operates at about a six year old act out?

He will say “leave me alone”... .or give her his mean face, or sometimes even ball up his fists and shake them at her... .yeah, wow!

Of course that sets her off, she does not understand patience with him... .or any form of empathy, .just her way or else ; (

I now harbor contempt for her... .in regards to her never ending intent to hold my Son to her idea of how things should be around here,

Yes it’s been a long two weeks, I think I did my best to keep the peace,  but when your out of “empathy” then your OUT!

She pushed me way too far during our storm ordeal... .and after a while the Non will become quite the grump!

Seems I had to fight her off as well the storm, all the while taking care of my Son, the house... .’the generator’ so forth and so on:... .so Cat is correct about the BPD attention angle.

She put me to bed yelling at me last night , and started right back in on me this morning as I was getting ready for work at a quarter to six!

Arg!

I need to recharge, I need a break from her... .

... .’I remember I wrote a thread last year about “my wife the step mom”... .this has been going on for a long time now,

But listen now, I think when BPD is stressed out, then the inabitions are dropped, the same as when one has a couple of belts of rum and coke... .so when she says “I really hate him”. -  or “I really can’t say that I love him”... .’well the pw/BPD’ actually means what they say... .

I don’t have it in me to be mean to anyone, never really have, even when they are in my grill, or in my lane... .but her!; she has that ability, at the drop of a hat ; (

What to do here... .right it’s LC-ST, and a wide berth... .with a side order of ignore... .I’ll write more when I can, still no cable or internet here, this is all off the iPhone... .

Red5
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 11:03:29 AM »

I can take her $hit, but my Son should not have too,

I fully agree with you in principle Red, but having grown up with a BPD mother, in my case, this principle did not hold true. As a child, I should not have had to take my mother's behaviors but there was no way my father could have intervened unless he was with us all the time and he had to go to work.

As far as basic safety, there were no fears. She would not have beaten us or left us in harm way, but we did upset her when we asserted our own individuality or stood up for ourselves, like your son did. As kids we were not perfect- probably lost track of time in the shower, forgot to pick up our toys- these are not unforgivable transgressions but not things my mother handled well.

With your wife and son, even though they don't have the same disorder, they have similar weaknesses- difficulty regulating emotions, a need for control of their environment, and a predisposition for meltdowns.

As a mother myself- I knew my mother had these weaknesses and so I did not leave her alone with my kids or place a lot of responsibility for them on her when she was around them. Many of my friends would have their kids stay overnight with grandparents or have grandparents babysit. If my mother was not able to handle those tasks with her own children, I didn't expect her to handle them with mine. A visit went well if it was just a fun visit and I took care of details- like meals, routine, etc.

I know your son is doing the best he can with autism, but it takes a mature and consistent person to manage a person with autism, and I don't know if someone with BPD is up to the task for long periods of time. Your wife may be able to manage him with some things, but not others.
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 11:52:31 AM »

Excerpt
it takes a mature and consistent person to manage a person with autism, and I don't know if someone with BPD is up to the task for long periods of time. Your wife may be able to manage him with some things, but not others.

Very true Wendy !

He goes to a day vocational program everyday here in town called the “Station Club”; it is a true blessing this facility, it gives many special needs persons something to do and a place to go during the weekdays.

But Florence put a short term kabosh on that... .so since udx wife resigned her own career about a year ago now, she also put the kabosh on S32’s afternoon mentor that he had had since 2010; she said that it was it was no longer a necessity to keep the mentor on to cover the few hours in the afternoons after he gets out of the voational activity... .

There is a thread about this event too that I wrote last year... .the mentor was preceived as slighting udx wife over a weekend event that S32 has been participating in for years now, so udx wife sacked her... .

It was what is called a “false flag event”  via and “inside job”... .

->problem-action-solution->

She even made his mentor cry... .ugh ; (

Ugly stuff... .

So anyways, here we are, responsibility taken on, and now the sabotage... .

As it was, she spent zero time alone with him, then a couple of hours in the afternoon, to now, maybe all day until things get back to a normal schedule... .

Right now I am still home awaiting orders to go back to work, as the storm knocked out most of the power on the air station,

You are correct about moms and grandmas... .I have a very similar situation with my own foo mum, .another long story ‘

But I home today, maybe for a few more daze, then he may be with her all day at least until the early afternoon... .I can modify my work hours to going in very early but leaving just after the noon hour thus limiting their time alone together... .

I don’t think I’ll have to travel only maybe a few days prior to Christmas... .wow, Christmas... .’another huge trigger’, and Thanksgiving as well... .ugh >;{

Thanks for listening , Red5
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 12:10:55 PM »

*My son is ASD1, but it sounds like your son requires support,  maybe significant. 

*If she's unable and unwilling to support you and him as a family unit,  what do you think you'll do now?

*Is your son ok?
My Son is developmentally about a five - seven year old... .in a thirty two year olds body, certainly not a good idea to leave him alone for any length of time... .he requires full time care and supervision,

She told me last night that “she would not let him run naked in the street”,  but he would have to take care of himself while I’m at work!

He is alright today... .I am off work due to electrical grid issues on the air station where I work... .

She has acted this way before, .but I did tell her that if this is what she wishes (acting out) then we will have to make “arrangements”, this is a veiled threat of divorce made by me.

Considering the fact that she indeed dismantled the support system I had in place for my Son, claiming to me that she would now fullfill this role, which she is now reneging on,

I have had quite enough of her bravo sierra, I require order, trust, and loyalty in my life as it pertains to the care of my Son, if she is not willing to participate... .then she needs to abide elsewhere... .

... .cut and dried,

I am sick and tired of her doing this, .disrupting the order and security in this home... .I’ll have to put a stop to this, no question... .this kind of behavior I can no longer tolerate, things have gone that far now.

She has worn out her welcome, and if she wants to act this way, then my daze as her “caretaker” may be at and end,

Wow.

Did I just type that ?

Red5

 
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 08:33:17 PM »

I want know what y’all would call this behavior;

She did this both last night and this morning,

During the dysregulation slash fight, she said something to the effect that it had been her that had curbed the boys eating habbits (bad), ie salt shaker use, sugar use, and a few other items, .which she took/takes to the extreme... .ie’ when we are out to eat... .taking the salt and pepper away from his reach... .nagging him about how much and how fast he may be eating his meals... .

So last night and again this morning she comes out with; “fine then, I’ll just let him do what ever he wants to, he is on his own”... .

She then proceed to take out all the salt shakers, and salt containers, sugar containers... .cookies, chips, etc and puts it all out on the counter, as if to let him eat and gorge on whatever... .while I am at work ; (

I told her she was being a child and to stop this at once, she stormed off to bed... .then came into the office where I was trying to sleep and started in on me again... .

And then the entire episode was repeated again this morning, even after I had put away all the “stuff”’ she had trotted out the night before... .she repeated the entire act again... .and I once again put everything away.

I left him out a banana his vitamins and a gator aid... .and asked her to make a pot of coffee for both of them after I’d left for work  ... .she refused and that’s when she came out with the naked in the street line... .

What the heck is this, why would she act out in such a manner?

As the power is still out on the base I did return home about four hours later and he was still in bed, and she had left to go to town as I passed her on the street... .

Does anyone have a opinion on what the salt pepper and sugar thing was all about ?

I told her that it was wrong to act out like this, and completely unacceptable... .she is a fifty year old grown adult woman !

Red5  

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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 08:53:27 PM »

And another item... .

Back when her D33 and H were visiting us last month... .during which the great back yard rampage happened, on the Friday night of that week, udx wife had some kind of tremor fever event... .we think due to over exersion, as she is undergoing immunotherapy... .

It happened two times during the D33’s visit, but not again since or else before... .well outside of the hospital anyway... .

So there she was in her easy chair... .’shaking and shivering’ pretty much incoherent... .pretty scary stuff, .and then in the middle of it she looks up at me and says clear as day... .“please promise me that you won’t hire Mrs. G back as J’s (S32autistic) mentor”... .

I was like what the heck?

That was about five-six weeks ago now, and today she says she wants nothing to do with him... .says she doesn’t even know if she loves him?

Is she losing it?

Thoughts... .

Red5
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 09:42:27 PM »

In what you’ve shared about her, it seems that she barely tolerates your son and perhaps this is finally a bit of truth that she’s willing to disclose.

I think the bit about not rehiring the woman who was his mentor, may have been due to her feeling threatened by an outside influence. She might have imagined being judged by this woman for not helping to take care of your son since she obviously was at home, without a job, so why didn’t she help?

I think pwBPD are constantly monitoring other people looking for value judgments about their unworthiness.
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 07:13:44 AM »

Excerpt
I think pwBPD are constantly monitoring other people looking for value judgments about their unworthiness.

... .this is BPD paranoia (?).

Red5
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 01:17:45 PM »

In what you’ve shared about her, it seems that she barely tolerates your son and perhaps this is finally a bit of truth that she’s willing to disclose.


Red5,

I think you should, with our help, develop a SET statement and a couple variations that support your wife, with the Truth part being that You are all your son has and that you will care for him.

Leave unsaid, you will respect her right to care... or not.

Hang in there man... .natural disasters suck.  BPD showed up shortly after one for me.  I hate it for you.  Please be extra kind to YOU... .!

FF
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 01:32:05 PM »

So S32’s day vocation program is shut down due to storm, udx wife is at home all day, I was able to go back to work today, went in yesterday to do damage assessment.

So it’s 14:20 local, just got back home and what do I find?

She is true to her word... .S32 is STILL in his bed where I left him this morning at 07:00, udx wife is sitting onher @ss watching a movie, he has not eaten, washed up, or dressed, and it’s friggin 14:00 ; (

She said she would have nothing further to do with him... .and she hasn’t... .I am pissed!... .  no furious !

What the heck

I questioned her, she repeated herself, “I ain’t doing nothing for him, with him, not my responsibility”... .

I told her that’s BS,

Here I sit... .

I want her gone !

That’s how I feel right now,

Red5
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 02:33:31 PM »


I told her that’s BS,

Here I sit ... .

I want her gone !

That’s how I feel right now,

Red5

Red5,

I agree with you, yet I have to point out that engaging with her on this doesn't help.  She is tossing out bait... .you are biting.

Separate issue about caring for your son.  Crap... that sucks. 

Can you get him up and dressed and then let him watch movies all day? 

Who on base can you call, where you might be able to drop him off while you work? 

I realize none of this is best... .for short run... physical safety an accountability is needed.  Any thoughts on handling this apart from BPD?

FF
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 04:38:08 PM »

Thx FF,

Another twist; tomorrow we were scheduled to go up to D-uke for another big appt., she is to get more scans and tests and see her oncologisT, .

Well, it certainly won’t be the first time I did not go with her, I recall the “vinegar in the pickles” ’incident’ , and the last time “there’s no we”... .incident... .certainly NOT the first she went up there solo due to fighting between us (pattern ?).

So yeah I’m pretty pissed at how she “took care”’of things with S32(autistic) today, so I brought it up, “do you still want me to go with you in the morning?”,

We are (were) having my middle S28 come over at zero five to sit with J while we are gone, and it will be an all day affair with her finally seeing her oncologisT at about two-three in the afternoon, then the four hour ride back home starting off in Raleigh traffic ; (

Of course there was a skirmish as Red5 took that big bite of “bait”... .

By now J is dressed and him and I are going to town to get him fed and get the h3ll away from her.

So she has called her foo mum(MIL), I can’t help but overhear, she is going on about how her beach condo (remember her now deceased H#2 from older thread)... .how her beach condo is full of mold now and so forth and so on... .then the flying monkeys make their aproach... .

... .udx wife says so I can hear... .
“I can’t make my husband support me in my C dx, he can come if he wants but he is mad at me right now”... .I take the bait yet again, as I step out of the kitchen and say, “be sure you tell her the whole gd story now”... .then it’s a three way/ blah blah blah... .mum says something about “options”... .

I walk out to back porch with J and then we leave.

Personally I really don’t think I can take being with her an entire twelve hour plus day... .in the vehicle and in waiting rooms/hospital; but the “FOG” is heavy in the evening air now?

Heavy on the “O&G”... .

Damnit... .I should go with her because I know in my heart she is going to get more bad news tomorrow... .

But I am still extremely pissed off as me and J sit here at the local chicken joint as he eats for the very first gd time today,

She seems to expect that I will go with her in he morning even after she did what she did today with my Son, .yeah, “support” her after she let my Son lay in his bed all gd day with no direction, left to is own, would she do this to a six year old... .after all that’s where he is developmently... .

I’m supposed to just swallow my anger and now to her?

... .UGH !

Thoughts ?

I need a good paddles call tonight FF!

Red5 has the ball, help me make a good pass and get back on deck Brother!

Red5

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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2018, 05:01:46 PM »

Paddles contact... .pitching deck... easy with it.

What if she "can't'?

What if her "hook" is missing and you are expecting her to grab the three wire?

   

She's actually flying an E2... .you just got a call from the deck apes and they don't have an E2 barrier.  Blue water ops... .

Boss says catch the E2 anyway... .with the jet barrier.  Says we'll clean up the mess when it's all over.

Red5.  Sometimes there are sh$tty days... .and sh$tty options.  Either get it on deck... .or get wet.  Did I mention it's winter ops, up north... supply doesn't have any dry suits, so the aircrew isn't going to last long in the water.

 
 Back to the situation... .don't expect an airplane without a tail hook to make a pretty recovery.  It needs to be survivable... .

Your wife did a crappy thing today... but it was survivable.  Everybody survived.  What if it was her best?

https://goo.gl/images/eMnLNM

https://goo.gl/images/HeSEG2

Thread hijack.  An E2 barrier has big holes cut out for the propellers to go into.  So imagine using a barrier without the holes... .propeller parts will likely go everywhere... what a mess.

Back to Red and the pitching deck.

This sucks Red... .you should be mad.  Your wife has cancer, likely bad news tomorrow.  You don't want to go, yet you know should should.  This isn't fair... .it's not what you deserve, but it's the hand you have.  

Play it the best you can brother... .

Don't mention going with her again.  Get up early... be ready to go.  don't take the bait... .let your other son help with the special needs guy.  

She's scared... .and she is doing what is "normal" to her... .lashing out.  It's what she knows... don't take it personally (much easier said than done... I know)

Big picture... .don't expect Gallon love from someone that barely has a pint.

You can't give... what you don't have.

Remember... .

https://youtu.be/R4pRe8ul7KQ

Right for lineup... .cut cut cut...  (another hijack... .once paddles knows you have made the deck, he will say "cut cut cut" at which point you cut your engines in anticipation of the barrier)

FF
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 05:59:35 PM »

Thx FF  

Roger, Red5 low on fuel, foul deck, understand barricade is not repairable, the deck apes are going to use “tilly” to protect aircraft spotted forward, Red5 will come aboard... .only got one pass, blue water bingo,

I understand FF, all options $hitty, but no one is in danger... .this will be yet another “chaser detail”... .you are right, best to suck it up and go with her, take her and just drive, better take my Kevlar !

My life has been chock full of “long days”... .I know I have the “grit” to take her bravo sierra, .a thermos of black coffee may need to be ordered up from the ”Chiefs Mess”  !

Too bad I quit smoking back in 2011 haha,

Yes, NATOPS says to ignore the “flashing red lights” and press on !

We’ll follow the “air plan” and hope for a good hop here!

We’ll have a good combat FOD walk down after the last fixed wing recovery and get the mess cleaned up eh’ !

Set HERO condition throughout the ship, secure from all live Ordnance evolutions... .set the alert... .

Tomorrow will be a long day, most likely a “hot load event”... .hmmmm, Red5 knows “hot loading”... .so a twelve hour day with udx wife should be a simple stroll down the flight line... .

P.S. // the mysterious Red5 character (red shirt) strolls across the screen at 1:31, yeah that’s me incognito ! //

Thank you Formflier !

You are right, I’ve been wet and mad many times before... .I’ll play this one as best I can.

Enjoying quiet time with my Son at the chicken joint for now,

Red5
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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 07:32:57 PM »


On tomorrows trip... .try to do some spontaneous stuff.  Likely after the appointment... you don't want to miss that.

Find a place to eat... just because.  Buy her something.  Take a selfie with her.  Go to one of those picture booths and get a picture taken.

Find a place close by to get her a massage. 

You get the picture... .

Don't worry about the past... .or the future.  Just do some stuff with her.

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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 07:44:00 PM »

You get the picture... .

Don't worry about the past... .or the future.  Just do some stuff with her.

Wilco !
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 01:17:26 PM »

Excerpt
How goes hurricane recovery?

How goes trip to doc?

Thinking of you RED5

FF
Afternoon FF!
Ok here, things are better now; sitrep / after-action report follows;
So when me and S32(a) got back home from the chicken joint last Tuesday night, walked into the house, and she was still sitting in her chair watching her show (ST?), I got the boy off to his shower and to get ready for the evening routine.
So I broke radio silence, and I asked her if there was anything I could get for her from the kitchen, remembering your last post above ($hitty choices), and also something you had written about a session with your “P” and that he had talked about “letting FFw be (room to) be mad”… like the “put it away” thing, move to the right, not the left, “forward”, not backwards… “let it go” and all of that, and a little “disciplined indifference”… just for good measure,
So she says to me in reply to the “kitchen remark”, “I wrote you a letter”… I replied with one word, ie’ one syllable… “k”… And went about my evening duties…
So after I got the boy into the shower (with his timer)… I went into the office (man cave) to read this suspect letter.
Synopsis of the contents, all seven paragraphs, were play by play of the last forty-eight hours, re-written history… and was in its entire content to place all blame for all the conflagration squarely on me… so; ok I thought, use more of the tools now (above)… it’s just a piece of paper, nothing else, keep calm and “chive on” here;… I only read it once, and then I “stowed it” away.
I walked back into the living room, and said, “thank you for writing me the letter”… she replied, pretty much “lit” into me;…  “I am tired of being mad at you, I am tired of your anger towards me, I am tired of you not supporting me when I have to deal with your Son”… she continued, “you are not treating me very well, I want you to treat me better”… I replied, “I am listening”… then I said, “I want to take you to your appointments tomorrow, it’s a long drive, and I want to support you, let’s let all this go for now, and concentrate on tomorrow ok?”… then before she could respond, I told her… “I love you”, and then I egressed the area!… and left to go check on S32(a), and to get him ready for bedtime,
From there on out to “taps taps lights out”, things were “civil”… I did not take bait suspect anymore, even though she has said what she had said, and acted the way she had.
So… Then next morning, Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) zero three thirty, I got up (we slept in same bed)… and showered, and got the boys gear ready for school, yes, the director of S32(a)’s day vocational activity texted me the previous afternoon, and said the S-Club was now party FMC again, and that they were able to have classes… good news!
*FMC means “full mission capable”…
She followed my leader, and got up at zero four, then my S28 came over at zero four forty-five to sit with his brother, and to get him to and from his activities for the day… I packed up my coffee thermos, and her gear, and myself and udx wife departed for RD at zero five… everything seems fine, we are apprehensive about the looming appointment, and what will transpire, but as we say our goodbyes, and proceed to the vehicle, everything seems ok.
So we leave, As we do down the dark street, dodging the huge piles of hurricane debris, I ask… highway 24 or 70?… as she has not given me the coordinates, and there may be issues with passage along the route due to flooding… she only says “70”… Right about then my RWR started to “ping”… so I said nothing else, and selected her favorite station on the sirius xm…
So 48 some odd miles click off, as we pass through the towns in the early hour… then finally, as we have been on the road for an hour, I finally break the silence and say… “you ok over there?”… and she wades into to me, it’s the letter, now verbally… almost line for line… she lets me have it yet again… Its ALL my fault, I treat her like $hit, My Son this that and the other thing… blah blah blah… I am cruising at 79mph, the sun is not up yet, there is an almost full moon though, I try not to let her into my helmet, I concentrate on my instruments, and indicators, Mph, voltage reading, oil pressure… engine temp… I note the heading NW, and outside temp, 70 something degrees… I keep an eye out for deer along the side of the road… I dim my headlights as we approach other vehicles… there is some fig out as well… I note the fog lamp lighted indicator on the dash… she’s still going…
Finally, I wait for her to catch her breath… and I simply say, “I’m listening”…
She says nothing for about twelve seconds, then she says… “I know you are”… (?),
I say nothing else, and neither does she, I wait for her to “burn out”…
Now we are getting close to the I-40… traffic start to get busier… she starts a random conversation about how busy it will be in the hospital, where we need to go, and if we will make it on time… I add a few lines of “inconsequential conversation”… about the traffic patterns…
~> continued
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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2018, 01:18:20 PM »

~> continued
As we get closer to our first appointment, she gets antsy about if we are in the right place, I ask for the coordinates again, and she then pulls out a hand written sheet of “directions”… I ask her to put the address into the navigation system so we can check our position, she refuses, I keep driving down the road as per directed/directions… that hospital got to be round here somewhere…
We finally find it, this is one of those “off-site” appointments, we have three of them today… I go to park, and she starts to complain about that I’m not in the right parking lot, I say nothing… just keep driving… we get there, get out, and go in, they take her back, I wait… an hour goes by… then we leave to go to the main hospital… again, I use the navigation system, she questions it, then gets aggravated dt me… “you’re NOT going the right way”… I point to the ”moving map” but say nothing… she gets more irritated…
We get to our #2 destination, and proceed to the parking garage… it’s now eleven hundred local, the place is packed… as we ascend, she starts to complain that I’m not paying enough attention, I say “that the best option is go straight to the roof and park, and take the elevator “down”… As I do this all the time, She says “let me out here”, “I want out now, do what you want!”… I stop at level two, and let her out by the elevator trunk.
She disappears out of my sight, and I proceed with the other topside, park, and go to find her in the C wing…
I go to the C wing labs, and wait, she is already taken back… I wait for about forty-five minutes, she reappears, and is now all smiles and happy… (?)… ”Let do lunch she says!”… we walk down to the cafeteria, and have lunch, conversation is random, but upbeat… nothing serious… I am extremely careful of what I say, as o avoid any dysregulation at this crucial point… It’s another hour and a half till we see her doctor… we leave the cafeteria, and go to the enclosed garden sitting area… she’s cold, so I go to the gift shop and buy her a small fleece blanket… she plays with her phone, we “people watch”.
Time to go to the fifth floor, we proceed to the elevators again, it’s a long walk, I hold her hand, she tells me that she is nervous… I grip her small hand a little tighter…
We get to the unit, check in, and wait for the Doctor, they take her vitals, and then take us back… we are now sitting in the exam room, she is still cold, and now thirsty, I go out to get her a cup of ice water… when I return the Doctor is there.
He says the usual greetings, looks at her charts on the computer screen, and its not good news, he tries to offer her his professional consolation/further options, she starts to cry, I am compartmentalized by now… he discusses further treatment options, and talks about “trials”… then he leaves, and the pharmacists comes in, more details about treatments… it is over, we sit there for a moment or two, she is pretty shaken up, I rub her shoulder, and hold her hand some more… I don’t know what to do, expect “act brave”…
We leave and go to check out, and make more appointments… then we leave, back through the hospital, via the pharmacy… then on out to the parking garage through the long corridors… it’s over,
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2018, 01:19:02 PM »

~> continued
We leave the hospital, and get back on the freeway… and proceed out of the RD area… its now after five in the afternoon… She scolds me that I am driving too fast, then too slow, Then wants to know if I’m hungry… and if I’ve checked my email today, and what do I think about this that and the other… Then her foo starts to blow up her phone… This goes on for another hour and then some until we are far away from the city, and almost to Goldsborough… I listen to all the calls, fork her foo, and her two adult children… “don’t tell mother”… “the news was not good, the _/_/_ did not work, he wants to put me on this now”… “don’t tell mom”… “yes, we are on our way back home, don’t tell mom anything”…
We stop and have dinner in Kinston, Uneventful, we talk about random things… she is calm now.
We get home, I go to my S28’s apartment to collect S32(a)… It’s after 20:00 now.
She takes shower, and goes to bed, I put S32(a) to bed after wash up time… now it’s just me and the dogs and the two cats… I sit on the couch and think “what a day”…
I fall asleep, and when I wake up its zero five… I get up, and start the morning routine.
As of today, things are still somewhat calm, no dysregulations, no “cross talk”… We’ll see how long this lasts… we got our internet back on Wednesday, so she is able to communicate with her foo better now… S32(a) is back in his program, and I am back at work now… Back into the “normal“ routine…
I do understand that this will not last, sooner, maybe later, she will slip her rail again about something, as she certainly now has an unlimited supply of “something”…
Thanks for listening… And thank you FF for your advice, as always it was very effective!
Red5

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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2018, 02:10:43 PM »

You were awesome, Red5 

So difficult to keep the powder dry when faced with so much incoming. You did great! I’m sure it wasn’t fun and it wasn’t easy, but you supported her so well through that difficult day.

Very tough for everyone.   

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« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2018, 09:18:07 AM »


Red5

Solid SITREP.  I'm so sorry you guys didn't get better news at the doctor.   

I applaud your ability to be there for her and deflect the incoming rounds and juggle the other responsibilities in the background.  No idea if she came out and said thank you... .but I certainly will.  Thank you Marine!  Good work serving those that need and depend on you!

Please don't take any of this as direction or criticism, more like FF "thinking aloud".  If you ever get to a situation where this may work... perhaps you feel up to it and "pull the trigger".  Perhaps not.  Sometimes you kinda have to go with your gut.

The letter:  That shows effort on her part to "get you to understand something".  I'm sure we all agree she lacks the skill to express it.  Perhaps she doesn't even know exactly what she wants to say.

Let's add in BPD and she may not remember what she felt when she put pen to paper. 

Big picture:  She doesn't need help remembering or "fixing".  She needs good solid fastballs tossed her way... that it's a good time for (fill in the blank)

So... .make sure you have a few hours in the evening.  Take her a glass of ice water (or tea... favorite beverage).  "Hey... .babe.  Been thinking about the letter and us.  I've got a couple hours if you want to talk/do something."  Then... roll with it.

Hey... .here is a FF challenge.  You gave us a good SITREP... now give us a lessons/learned AFTER ACTION type report.

RED 5 there was only one place in the SITREP where FF cringed.  Wrong decision was made.  However, you made a wrong decision "right" and pressed on.

If you can find it... .I might stop making fun of Marines... .for a day or so.    (Hint you pitched her a fastball, when you should have "put some junk on it")

FF

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« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2018, 09:24:18 AM »



and of course I can't be in a RED 5 thread without a hijack.  Almost like an obligation.


Greetings from the mountain side of Carolina.  I'm in area taking in a lazy Sunday morning at a wonderful breakfast buffet.  Absolutely the best cheese grits ever.  County ham pretty good too!

FF

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« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2018, 01:16:42 PM »

Hi,
This might sound dumb since your community is in the midst if a natural disaster but are there any support groups in your community for parents of Autistic children? I am so  sad for you and your son. This is essentially child abuse she is committing. Leaving someone with the capacity of a  6 years old alone is awful . He could have been hurt.
Thank God he has  such a loving dad.
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« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2018, 10:05:59 AM »

Excerpt
[quote from Cat] "I’m sure it wasn’t fun and it wasn’t easy, but you supported her so well through that difficult day."

Thanks Cat, yeah, wasn't a good day at all... .pretty scary stuff... .on top of everything else... .that was weeks ago now, life here is taking a turn; I can feel it... .I got to keep my head gear "washed out", things are going to get worse where her health is concerned.

Pretty grown up stuff... .

Excerpt
[quote from FF] "RED 5 there was only one place in the SITREP where FF cringed.  Wrong decision was made.  However, you made a wrong decision "right" and pressed on.

If you can find it... .I might stop making fun of Marines... .for a day or so.    (Hint you pitched her a fastball, when you should have "put some junk on it")

... .and of course I can't be in a RED 5 thread without a hijack.  Almost like an obligation.  

FF"

This thread is pretty much dead now ... .its been so busy round here I have not really been able to respond as I should, .besides, as we all know, there is never really any "validation", or explanations to the behaviors of pw/BPD, .seems as one fire dies out, another will start forthwith... .so I'm on about the "subsequence" third, maybe forth (dysregulation) at the moment, maybe a new thread... .so you'll have to help me to see the "fastball" moment that I missed FF  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) as my brain housing group is pretty much a disaster area at the moment... .as far as the letter, it was not mentioned again after we got back home that evening, or ever there after~>... .she moved right along to something else entirely... ."making fun of Marines"  !... .don't get me started with my "squid jokes" ha ha ha !... .no really... .I love Sailors, some of my best friends are retired Navy   !

Excerpt
[quote from Tinkerbelle] "Hi, this might sound dumb since your community is in the midst if a natural disaster but are there any support groups in your community for parents of Autistic children? "

There are Tinkerbelle, we are blessed to have an outstanding day vocational program for him to attend everyday, it is a blessing to be sure... .things are better now, some time has passed, more things have happened, as time has gone by... .today we are all ok  ... .

Red5
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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2018, 11:36:05 AM »

  “you ok over there?” … and she wades into to me, …. it’s the letter, now verbally … almost line for line …. she lets me have it yet again …. Its ALL my fault, I treat her like $hit, …. My Son this that and the other thing …. blah blah blah … I am cruising at 79mph, the sun is not up yet, there is an almost full moon though, … I try not to let her into my helmet, I concentrate on my instruments, and indicators, …. Mph, voltage reading, oil pressure … engine temp …

Here is the fastball.  I'm not saying never say this... .I am saying never say this when trapped in a confined space.

You asked for her feelings... .and boy did you get them... .

You pulled out the corkscrew... .and it all came spewing out. 

My guess is you were trying to make conversation and to be concerned about her feelings.  Once you realized you actually opened the floodgates... .you recovered well.   

Much better to be focused.  "I find it relaxing to watch the sun come up.   What do you think?"

Sometimes you can get a rant going on something else... "How did your phone call with the wicked witch of the north go last night?  Sounds like the broom sale got you guys excited."  (note... this is much edgier... but somethings they can blow of steam this way)

Sometimes they build up a head of steam and roll you over... .

Anyway... good job recovering... .

FF
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« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2018, 12:38:18 PM »

Excerpt
[FF qoute] Here is the fastball.  I'm not saying never say this... .I am saying never say this when trapped in a confined space.

Yup, a Grand Cherokee cockpit is no place to have an u/BPDw helmet fire!

Excerpt
[FF qoute] You pulled out the corkscrew... .and it all came spewing out. 

... .oops, I was intending to do a "health and comfort" check of my bombardier/navigator... .again, oops 

Excerpt
[FF qoute] My guess is you were trying to make conversation and to be concerned about her feelings.  Once you realized you actually opened the floodgates... .you recovered well.   

... .old aviator adage, .push control yoke forward, houses trees and mountains get bigger, pull back smartly on control yoke, .houses trees and mountains get smaller   !

Excerpt
[FF qoute] Sometimes you can get a rant going on something else... "How did your phone call with the wicked witch of the north go last night?

... .yes, I have done this in the past... .the "throw a shiny object" move... .or the "false flag operation"... ."release a decoy"... .to initiate the release of negative energy in a direction other than the Non's direction (me  )... ."to tie up, to disperse; or release negative energy in a safe direction"... ."to discharge overpressure"... ."release steam"... ."clean the boilers"... .yes, I do this from time to time, not in a nefarious way, but to "keep her occupied/busy"... .ie' quickly CHANGE the subject, to something I know she will go with ~>> ... .thus redirecting her precived dysregulation in another direction away from me... .

Is this bad?... .hmmm,

But you have to be careful with this... .as once its "out", its "out"... .like a ZUNI rocket out of the launcher, .so be careful!... .as there is no "off-switch" here.

But it is effective in some scenarios. https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=vJeX0Jk3__8

Hope all is well in your grid square today FF!

Red5

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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2018, 02:16:16 PM »


https://youtu.be/5kaBIMuW74Q

Yep... .once the torpedo starts homing... .you've got to be careful.

FF
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2018, 03:17:59 PM »

https://youtu.be/5kaBIMuW74Q

Yep... .once the torpedo starts homing... .you've got to be careful.

FF

Yeah, "don't watch the missile"... ."I TOLD you NOT to look!" https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=nf8kBmMzr4I
Red5
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2018, 11:05:41 PM »

Going back up to DK RD in about four and a half hours... .I am up and can’t sleep... .udx wife has been really great for about two weeks now... .guess I’m “on my game”... .

None of the previous dysregulations to include the letter were ever spoken of again... .two weeks and nothing “big”, just minor fllare ups... .all somewhat easily “handled”... .

She is on another treatment regime now, tomorrow’s appointment is a status check... .

I’d better try and get at least three hours of sleep, going to be a long day.

Please, I ask that Y’all keep her and me in your prayers, I’ll be sure to iou for y’all... .

There is more to tell, maybe tomorrow while I’m in the waiting room... .

 Night all, Red5,
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« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2018, 06:36:52 AM »


Hey Red... .

Do her Dr's have this information?  Information in general about her behavior.

FF

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« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2018, 05:05:12 PM »

Hope the appointment went as well as possible. Difficult for anybody to deal with a life threatening disease—must be stressful on steroids for a pwBPD—and for you, Red.   
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« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2018, 01:06:04 PM »

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Do her Dr's have this information?  Information in general about her behavior.

FF, no they don't... .although, when we were getting her treatments here locally, and not "north"... .during the process, there was an emotional dysregulation during the initial phase of that, and I think the hospital VP (XO), and the attending oncologist picked up on it, it was FOO related... .but that's ancient history now, as far as her primary (on-going current) oncologist (north), no; there is no attention given to it (her behaviors), she has masked it all... .not withstanding she is dealing with so much more when we go up there.

Excerpt
Hope the appointment went as well as possible. Difficult for anybody to deal with a life threatening disease—must be stressful on steroids for a pwBPD,

Thanks Cat, this appt. was a "status check", and labs... .to see how she is responding to this current protocol, she is currently stable, .one day at a time; most days anyway.

Red5
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2018, 10:22:51 AM »


What would letting them know how she is "really" doing look like?

I'm wondering if anything good would come of that?  Certainly cancer treatment needs to take into account the "whole person".

Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2018, 12:39:02 PM »

*What would letting them know how she is "really" doing look like?

*I'm wondering if anything good would come of that?  

Thoughts?

Hmmm, .processing ~>

The time we (she) actually spends with her oncologist is inside of twenty minutes each appointment... .each time, its pretty much a "lets see where we're at" type of interaction, the treatment schedule, the scans/results, lab work... .what it shows, path forward, and then that is it.

Of interest, this happened the other evening,

My udx wife belongs to a support blog, where patients, and as well caregivers go to tell their stores, offer support, and to converse, which is a great thing, just like this site/blog, .so we are sitting there in the living room, I had built a fire in the fireplace, we were watching "Expedition Unknown"  ... .sipping some merlot, yes I had my mason jar... .she says to me,

"Red5, have you ever thought of seeing someone, someone to talk to, about what we are going through, with my C diagnoses"... .this peaked my attention, the RWR receiver sprang to life... .beep beep beep, .she continued, ."I think that you should, you told me a while back that you were going to, did you ever do that?"... .

I gave it a split second thought, and I chose a few words in response very carefully, and edited them in my mind before I spoke... ."yes, I agree with you, have you had the same thoughts, if so, and I as I have said before, I think its a good idea for you as well."

Then she tells me, "my regular doctor has told me that I should, and I tried it once, but it is so hard to find a good person to talk to"... .she continued... ."I want to find a good person"... .(she cant even say therapist, or psychiatrist)... ."find a good person to talk to, a Christian, maybe through the Church".

I say to her, ."yes, I agree, it is a journey, to find the right person that you are comfortable with"... .I asked for no other details.

She goes on, "I know that you are under a lot of pressure, dealing with both me, and S32(A)... .you run yourself raged, and I think it would be a good thing for you to find someone to talk to about all that is going on in our life"... .

... .yeah wow !

So I chose to use the "amnesty box"... .and I told her, "yes, I actually have found a person, and we have had one session, it was ok"... .she focused her eyes on me... .and for a moment I thought "oops", should not have done that... .

She responded, "how did you find this person"... .I know that OPSEC is in order, so I keep the details vague... ."I found him in Psychology Today "... .I chose him due to his perceived credentials, and professional history"... ."and I plan at some point to continue with him".

I then dropped a few CHAFF rounds... ."I think you need to find a woman to talk to, call her what you want to, a therapist, or psychiatrist, there is a distinct difference, I think you need someone, .yes a woman, who you can confide in outside of our Church, and not family, confidence and confidentiality is very important, you need a third person/opinion to vent things with, someone whom is not going to sugar coat, as I know I do with you when we talk about things"... .I meant her C dx, not BPD.

She has NEVER admitted that she is BPD, or any facsimile thereof, .nope, and I don't think it will ever happen, .this is my opinion.

But you never know, someone with the right skills, the right "enigma code book"... .a 'T' or 'P', may be able to crack her code... .

... .changing gears here'

I have been meaning to ask you a question FF, .I know that you have a 'P', does your wife know that you see this 'P' on regular basis, and if she does, does she ever ask for a post visit report?

I understand that it's none of the pw/BPD's business whether or not the 'Non' is seeing a 'P', or a 'T', and certainly not required to produce the "trip ticket" after a session, unless the Non wanted to... .just curious about your situation / relationship with your 'P'... .verses Mrs. FF.

... .ok, back to first gear... .

She continued her thoughts... .she says to me, "I read a lot of posts on my blog, from "caretakers" (yeah - WOW)... ."whom have gone the entire journey with their wives, or husbands, or whatever, .there is so much that they go through, I think you really should have someone to talk to, I have this blog, and a few other friends in the state, and "L" down in Florida, but you don't have anybody Red5, .and I worry about that for you, you have no one to talk to"... .of course she is speaking of C (dx)... .R-C-C to be specific.

I stared at Josh Gates hanging off the end of a rope on the TV... .and I got lost in thought for a few moments, and I responded to her, ."I love you, and I'm always going to be here for you"... .she smiled a little, and a few tears ran down her face... .she says to me, "I am scared, and you need to be prepared"... ."there are so many stories here (on the blog) about people telling their stories, its heart breaking"... .I reached for her hand, and said, "I'm scared too, but you are going to be just fine"... .

She seemed to calm a little bit, and let it drop, .and in a few moments; the subject was changed... .

hmmm, .interesting,

Red5


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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2018, 01:32:25 PM »


Red5,

Later today when I have more time... .I'll give you info about P.

I think you handled yourself well.  There were pauses... and then there was directness.

Here is the thing about bomb runs... .sometimes you jink a lot trying to avoid the flak... .sometimes you line up on your target... .and take what comes your way.

I'm going to suggest a target.  Then you go for it.

"Hey... thanks so much for being thoughtful about my needs as we go through this cancer journey together.  It means a lot to me.  If this is something you want to be part of... .I'm open to it.  Perhaps we read the blog together.  It seems important to you, so it's important to me."


Something like that... .

Thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2018, 04:46:25 PM »

Red, that was awesome for both of you. You did good. 
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2018, 05:53:29 PM »


Get some popcorn and settle in for the "P" story.

So... .years ago FF dealt with PTSD.  As part of that process I made a promise to my wife that if she was concerned about it ever returning... .we'd go check things input together.  No debating... .professionals would decide it.  (note... .it was to give her comfort and remove her from decision process... .so it wouldn't be debated)

Anyway... .we move and are now close to her FOO.  That was a lot rockier transition... that I figured it would be.  She started projecting a lot.  Demanded I "go see someone".  I called a prior PhD type that worked with us in family counseling... and he talked me through finding a good P. 

PhD and lots of experience.  He stressed I needed a "been there... done that" kinda person.  There were two people that came up in my search, one was at the VA... .and I had been there and done that... didn't want to deal with that process anymore.

So... .we go to the other one.  Well... my wife dramatically acted out my attempt to murder her with a sex toy.  We had a couple joint sessions... then my wife was erratic in going.

Then my wife decided P was bad.  Demanded I stop.  Then my wife went a few more times and had some one on one sessions.

Then... she decided P was no only bad... but wasn't a Christian.

The good news is P spent enough time with FFw so that I will describe a situation and P will then say... .I  bet FFw did/said... .xyz. 

It's scary how accurate she is. 

Then we role play and she explains "what is really going on".  What role I can play... .what role I should stay away from.

To your question... my wife doesn't talk much about her now.  When she would talk about her, accuse... whatever.  I would limit my response to setting up an appointment to chat with P as a group.  Wife doesn't want that... .so conversation over.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.  My P use to be married to and had a child with a person that was paranoid. 

How's that for a blessing? 

Um... .did I answer all the questions?

FF
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« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2018, 06:35:28 PM »

Red, do you think your wife is, perhaps for the first time, processing the reality of what lies ahead for her?
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« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 02:08:10 PM »

Excerpt
Cat writes / Red, that was awesome for both of you. You did good.

Thanks Cat, ."steady as she goes"... .

Excerpt
FF writes / To your question... my wife doesn't talk much about her now.  When she would talk about her, accuse... whatever.  I would limit my response to setting up an appointment to chat with P as a group.  Wife doesn't want that... .so conversation over.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.  My P use to be married to and had a child with a person that was paranoid.  

How's that for a blessing?  

Um... .did I answer all the questions?

Hey FF!, .yes; you answered my question(s)... .so your 'P' is a woman... .that's interesting, this may sound silly, but I would (I do) feel more comfortable with a man 'T' than a woman 'T'... .this may say something about my "psyche"... . !... .from what you have shared, it sounds to me that Mrs. FF is a little hostile, or as you say "paranoid" towards your 'P'... .do you think this is a true statement?

This must create a little angst from time to time, as you relate.

When myself and Mrs. Red5 went to see a MC many years ago, while we were separated, only six months after getting married, this MC was a woman... .to this day, if the subject ever comes up (digging up bones)... .my udx wife will say... ."you did not listen to her"... .from what I remember; the MC cautioned udx wife that she needed to stay out of... .and to not insert herself; into issues between myself and my three (at that time) teenagers, .I have read a few books since ; years ago now, in regards to "blended marriages", ie' I have three kids living with me, and we got married, and she moved in... .trouble !... .the MC related to us that she herself had married into a "blended family"... and that she had learnt to not become entangled in the starboard side of parenting so to speak... .of course udx wife does not remember this, or else has re-written the entire history of the events.

I'm a religious guy... .I don't think that things are by chance.

... .Me2!

Excerpt
Gagrt writes / Red, do you think your wife is, perhaps for the first time, processing the reality of what lies ahead for her?

I do, .she has had more periods of calm here of late... .maybe its me adjusting (continually) my own reactions to her, ie' daily caretaker role(s)... .her foo continues to emit non-stop drama... .so I think between that, and her own medical conditions, the heat is off of me... .but the holidays approach... .which trigger, so I have to be on my game, and I have to beware the comfort zone... .after so many years of this, it is quite exhausting... .but at least I have lots of operational experience under my belt, so I am able to anticipate, and disarm most of the behaviors before the ever become "hot".

Red5


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« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 02:21:07 PM »


My P is older. 

Honestly... .I don't know exactly how old she is.  Semi-retired is how she brands herself.  60s is the decade and I'm thinking she is in the middle.

My P reminds me of my Grandma in many ways.   She had the ability to give you milk and cookies and explain things directly... .sometimes hard things, yet you kinda knew it was going to be ok.

Not sure if I would say "paranoid" about my P.  She is definitely "perplexed" that she has no influence on the relationship.

She also kinda gets that she "started it"... .

I don't hide when I need to drop things off or go see P.  I don't promote it either.  So when it comes up in conversation... I just say it and move on.  It's been a long time since wife has drilled for details.

She knows I'll offer for her to "come in" and we can talk about it together. 


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« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 02:57:06 PM »

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My P is older.
 
My 'T' is also older than me, .I'm on the high side of fifty-two... .he reminds me of a wise uncle I used to have,

Excerpt
My P reminds me of my Grandma in many ways.   She had the ability to give you milk and cookies and explain things directly... .sometimes hard things, yet you kinda knew it was going to be ok.

I was raised by me Grandparents, both products of the depression... .now that I am older and wiser ()... .I wish I could sit down with them both back home at the kitchen table and have a conversation... .about life, God, relationships, and the world in general... .I know what you mean 

Excerpt
Not sure if I would say "paranoid" about my P.  She is definitely "perplexed" that she has no influence on the relationship.

My udx/w had no idea I was seeing my 'T', until the aforementioned conversation during October... .I want that to be for me, .things being what they are, .I cannot imagine a time when I would want her to "accompany"... .no, that's mine... .

Excerpt
I don't hide when I need to drop things off or go see P.  I don't promote it either.  So when it comes up in conversation... I just say it and move on.  It's been a long time since wife has drilled for details.

Funny, she has gone at least one time to see a 'T' or a 'P'... .at least once; and I/m not asking... .she sought one out at her local physicians urgence... .I don't know which, a T or P... .during our October conversation that came out... .and I am all for it, .and I also do not want to be part of it either... .not the way things are between us... .I would have to do some "mental preparation" if she wanted me to accompany her... .nope, not on my radar right now... .I guess I know her now all to well... .eleven years downrange?

Excerpt
She knows I'll offer for her to "come in" and we can talk about it together. 

Nope, not me... .don't want to know... .and likewise for me.

Red5
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« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2018, 07:15:55 AM »



In my case my wife was the one wanting me to find a T and participate.  She was engaged for a while and then wanted to quit... then came back... quit... .etc etc.

She wanted me to follow her in her cycles of pulling away and going back... .I stayed steady.

She does the same cycle (go for it then pull away... then re-engage... then quit)with church and other things, so it's much easier not to take things personally.

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« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2018, 10:00:37 AM »

Here we go again... .

A horrible twenty four hours,

Have to say, as usual; things have been some what ok for a few weeks now... .little flare ups as usually “price of doing buisiness”... .part and parcel in a BPD relationship,

But yesterday... .one of our beloved and precious elderly  puppies passed away... .hearts broken... .anguish and crying... .a long day... .

A real bad day but things were somewhat normal ?

Then this morning... .I get up, it’s my day off, wake up the boy, get him into his morning routine... .and I go make my own head call, then I’m in the kitchen cleaning up, she’s is up now, and I hear her go to his bathroom... .uh oh’... .she knocks on his door, he’s been in there now about 15 minutes... .then she unlocks the door, and I can hear her trying to get him to hurry up... .

Then it happens, I hear a little scuffle, my heart sinks, I put down my dish towel and the pan I’m drying and intercede... .

It’s bad... .S32 autistic has gotten angry at being intruded upon  ... .he gave her a mean face and raised his fist to her, she slapped his hand, he pinched her back, then she closed fist whacks him on the side of his head three times... .I grab him away and push him into his room, and yell at her to GO AWAY!... .

I am furious... .a huge fight starts... .she goes into the kitchen and starts slamming things around, dumps out our freshly brewed coffee, I investigate all the racket... .I see what she is doing... .raging... .I tell her to go away and to calm down... .she gets into my face... .I try to calm  down... .I go onto the back porch... .then I realize I have to guard my son, I go back into the living room, she’s in my face again... .I go into the kitchen again... .the cabinet door is open... .I slam it shut, it shatters in my hand... .she picks up a glass and threatens to smash it... .I take it away, things are off the rails now... .I have to physically restrain her from breaking up the entire kitchen... .

Long morning... .this all before zero seven thirty... .

As I’m later leaving to take son to his day program... .he tells her that he loves her ; (  she responds NO!... .stay away from me... .

As I leave she says she is moving out!

I say ‘ok, that’s fine’... .

Been riding around all morning... .now sitting at the boat ramp watching the seagulls... .

I want to scream !&!

Enough is enough... .

Thoughts ?   Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)  ... .

After ALL we’ve been through... .ain’t learned $hit... .

I knew that what transpired yesterday would most likely than not trigger BPD again... .but... .wow... .really ?

UGH !

Red5
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« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2018, 10:17:46 AM »

Dude, sorry to read this latest addition. Explosive arguments like this are not pretty and people rarely think clearly enough to make a good call on how to defuse rather than exacerbate the chaos. We enter fight or flight mode, do what we need to to protect people and somewhat the rest is the rest. In this case your wife seems to be 'the rest'. I can understand you being pumped up and the cabinet door took the punishment.

Neither of your adult children (W and Autistic S) are emotionally capable of understanding each other or in some sense learning how to 'deal' with the other. Your W hasn't the emotional weaponry to handle her own frustrations nor deal with the fact that S is not capable of 'learning' his way out of this repeated cycle of shower time chaos.

I think you're doing the right thing parking up, laying low and staying out of things. I sense from previous posts that you're likely very indifferent of the idea of her moving out in any case and I have a sense you feel life will be more rewarding should that happen. Returning to the home with her there before the afternoon isn't likely long enough to allow the dust to settle, so maybe find something calming to do this morning.

In some respects this is a known reality if that makes sense. This cycle has repeated itself so many times before in similar ways. My guess is you know how this is going to play out in the next 24/48 hours as part of the ever predictable cycle. The choice then comes, do I address the event head on, or do you accept that it was an event and work out how you may avoid it happening in the future?

What would either option look like?

As ever, we're here for you xx

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« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2018, 10:50:37 AM »

You are spot on Enabler in your synopsis of this mornings events in my home.

I knew it was coming - she is very predictable to me after all these years - if she leaves, I’d be better off... .

And yes, my threads read like a stuck recording don’t they... .

It is what it is, had this conversation with myself and as well you and many others here on this board many many times... .

What does either option look like?... .well, as I said... .if she does leave, I’d welcome it... .sad to say but that’s the honest truth.

Do I confront the event, .would do no good... .past history tells me it won’t ever matter.

Do I use this latest event to conjure yet more tools/contegency options... .at this point, it seems to me that it has reached yet another “straw”... .how many times will this occur again, I know the answer... .

... .“steady as she goes”... .

With each event... .as it happens, and after the “unpack” of the event, I more and more take her at her words, even said during the dysregulation... .and I feel myself slipping ever further into apathetic simmering and dull anger towards her... .like a persistent headache that just won’t go away or abate... .

It’s a pretty day here, S32 autistic is in his program till fourteen hundred... .don’t want to go back home... .and to think, how many times has this exact same senario played out over the last half dozen years... .

Yes, even though I feel the f-o-g... .due to her ‘c’ diagnoses... .enough is enough... .she is a big girl... .she is quite capable of taking care of herself.
 
Will she really move out?; hard to really say... .she ask me if I’d help her this morning and I said you know I will... .then she said something about me needing to figure out the furniture ... .

She can have it all, I really don’t care... .that’s how far I am willing to reach for peace in my life... .yes the thought of her being all set up in her own place... .away from me... .cut off from me... . I think that’s a good thing, I’m just too worn out with all of this... .

The very thought of an empty home, devoid of furniture, furnishings... .even the pictures gone from the walls... .empty rooms, bare floors... .that seems strangely appealing to me, it has the feeling of final freedom to me... .another life lesson learnt the hard way... .

Yes, I’m ready to go back there again, .not the first time for me.

We’ll see, as you say Enabler... .quite predictable .

Red5
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« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2018, 10:59:42 AM »

It's really really tough to sit there in a moment of emotion (puppy dying) to think... ."I'm sad about this, if I'm sad about this then W will be sad about this and bad things happen when W is sad about stuff... .what do I need to do to protect everyone in my moment of sadness?" That really feels like the only way to be on your toes enough to head off bad things happening.

In reality after she's back to base line do you think the moving out talk will continue?
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« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2018, 11:10:23 AM »


Red5,

Have you ever called the authorities on her?

Sadly... .we know there will be a next time.  It won't be the same... but something similar.

Play the long game here.  Who are you really protecting?  (you said it... .but it's important to remember).

When stuff like this happens... .I think it's important for you to click record on your phone.  Move you son to safety... .perhaps stay with him... and call the authorities. (911)

Said/asked another way.  Who has a better chance of de-escalating... .you or cops?

Obviously... .your wife needs more help than she is getting now (even though she likely wouldn't agree).  Would "proof" of this and/or police involvement be more or less likely to get her additional services... .compared to Red 5 sending the doctor a note.

   

I'm sorry Red 5.  Doing the right thing doesn't always make a Marine popular.  I know you know that... .sometimes saying it out-loud helps a leader sort through things better.

FF
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« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2018, 11:26:42 AM »

Another BPD’ism as you describe Enabler... .yes, “when do I get to cry”... .we all loved her... .she was a fifteen year old yorkie... .my little buddy... .and to top it all off, I was as supportive as humanly possible all day yesterday... .even her foo mum was included... .so/ so much for all of uBPDw’s angst against foo mum... .

Yeah, .as you describe, I’ve come quite adept at anticipating the BPD’ism’s... .as in “never ever let your guard down”... .and that’s pretty sad... .the very person whom you are comforting and supporting (she was her dog)... .this same person is going to come after you, because “they can’t process”... .

Do I think she will follow through, .no I don’t... .she has done this now countless times... .and she is very consistant as I’ve said.

November is a trigger month for her, her first husband supposedly told her he was going to divorce her on Thanksgiving Day, .her foo dad passed on the evening, early morning after another Thanksgiving, her younger brother also passed in this month years ago as well... .  and now; her beloved yorkie has also left her... .in this month... .

December is also a huge trigger for her... .the stories I could tell... .

“Reality”... .back to base, .I have a little theory about that, I think that her base/default is what I see now, anything “higher” a in “nice”... .that’s only temporary... .as  it never lasts... .like a person on crutches... .trying to walk... .if the crutch ever fails then gravity takes over... .default... .the “switch” always fails in the o-f-f (BPD anger) position... .any other position is magnetically held only as long as the power is on... .or the crutch holds the person up... .

The thing that’s different.now... .is that I’ve come to recognize the pattern... .it’s always the same... .consistant and predictable... .

How do I break this cycle... .that’s the question !

Red5
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« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2018, 11:33:34 AM »

Red, does your son have bruising from the altercation this morning? Since he is a "vulnerable adult", there are most likely legal implications.  It's hard to do the right thing, sometimes.

When things like this happen, it's hard to know in the moment what happened to cause such a derailment.
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« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2018, 11:35:46 AM »

I hear you FF,

Calling the sheriff... .yeeeash !

I have to say however... .as I was physically holding her back from smashing things in the kitchen this morning... .that thought did cross my mind... .but I didn’t do it... .

But I did threaten to call her daughter (age 33 and an RN)... .I got her answering service... .  but here is the catch, I said... .“can you call me back when you can, your mother is having another rage, I need some help” and I pushed what I thought was the hang up button, but it didn’t stop recording... .it went on for about three minutes... .so there is now a recording... .

As we recall in Red5’s broken record life, the recent Godzilla septic tank rampage of which her daughter and H were witness too during a recent visit... .

Hmmm,

Yeah,

Yes, I am listening FF, tough day... .

Red5
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« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2018, 11:39:33 AM »

Red, does your son have bruising from the altercation this morning? Since he is a "vulnerable adult", there are most likely legal implications.  It's hard to do the right thing, sometimes.

When things like this happen, it's hard to know in the moment what happened to cause such a derailment.
Yes he does, on his right forehead... .and she has a bruise on her inner arm where he pinched her... .

I want to cry... .this is completely unacceptable... .and sadly not the first time... .

My son is just a big toddler mentally... .about age 6-7 in a 33 year old body... .

This can’t happen anymore
Red5
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« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2018, 01:15:52 PM »

Excerpt
I want to cry ... .this is completely unacceptable ... .and sadly not the first time ... .

My son is just a big toddler mentally ... .about age 6-7 in a 33 year old body... .

This can’t happen anymore

Yes, unacceptable and very upsetting. What can you do differently this time?
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« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2018, 01:28:00 PM »

What can I do differently this time empath... .

Double... .Triple my situational awareness and take it to heart... .permanently / that uBPDw does not tolerate in any way my autistic son.

Of course this only continues to wear down any semblance of endearing “feelings” I ever had for uBPDw... .

Which does not bode well for any future / further fantasy that this eleven year - seven year marraige relationship has any chance of working... .

No, S33 autistic is my life responsibility... .period.

Can’t trust her... .not with him anymore... .I’m kidding myself otherwise... .

Damn... .

Red5
 
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« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2018, 02:23:46 PM »

What does not trusting her with him look like in practical terms?
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« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2018, 03:04:27 PM »

What does not trusting her with him look like in practical terms?

This means that I cannot.trust her with any of his daily care.

Even leaving him alone with her for any amount of time,
*work travel
*during the day afternoon hours that I’m at work
*anytime I need to be absent for a few hours to a few days

No more... .she has continuously proven that she will lose her temper with him, and he is utterly helpless when this occurs.

Red5
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« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2018, 04:34:53 PM »

I'm so sorry, Red. This totally sucks! And I'm very sorry about the loss of your precious doggy pal.   

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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2018, 06:26:25 PM »

Hmmm,

Me and the boy got home about four... .another big drama scene... .apparently it is all my fault... .some yelling back and forth... .

I get boy off to shower... .after him and I spent some time outside sitting on the porch... .so off to the shower he goes, I watch the news in the office, and sure enough... .she starts in AGAIN on him,

I scream at her to LEAVE HIM ALONE,

She further loses it... .so I tell her that the boy and I will find another place to live, yeah that is a big idea I had while sitting on the back porch, to just leave it all behind to get away from her.

But she argues with me and she tells me NO that she will be the one that will leave.

She calls her S#2 (foo sister no.2)... .asks her to help her find a place... .

So now she is taking things off the wall, she gave me her wedding bands, she is putting things into a few boxes... .

I think she is serious this time... .she told her S#2 as such on the phone of course where me and the boy could hear it all... .

Would you believe that my S33 autistic started to cry and tried to ask her “why”... .she told him that “obviously we don’t get along”... .

What a $hit show... .

Going to be a long weekend ; (

And there was a txt exchange that I was put on between her two adult children... .wow, guess that was a mistake,

I have to say though, if this is all for real, I have a feeling of distant relief... .

We’ll see... .

Red5
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2018, 07:24:32 PM »

As awful as it currently is, it could be a blessing in disguise. Certainly would cut down upon your stress level. And perhaps you could even make steps toward repairing the relationship if you two live apart, of course, should you want to do that.

You've been through so many hellish scenes with her, you might just need a break, and so might she.

Not easy, however this turns out. But you know that you have to protect your boy, cause she sure won't.

   
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2018, 07:30:33 PM »

Okay, she's got help with the moving out process... . When my h decided that he was gonna move out, he had a friend and his dad encouraging him and helping with the details.

I kinda was thankful that he decided to leave on his own. In the moment, I just tried to be calm and let him take the lead, asking what he wanted me to do as he was packing and moving things. I left the house while he was doing it. I figured that since he felt like he was going to hurt himself or me, the best option for all of us was for him to leave on his own accord.

Her leaving allows for less vigilance with your boy... . 
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2018, 07:49:59 PM »

Yes Cat & empath, .I too think this may be blessing, and one in disguise as Cat says... .I don’t feel sad... .there are no tears, I have this feeling of “finally”... .I feel as though I’ve done all I could have ever done, but the reality is that this marraige was most likely doomed to fail from the very beginning... .but I did not possess the knowledge of BPD as I do now.

Yes empath, she seems to be proceeding smartly this time, she is eyeing the outer markers so to speak, I think she is also ready to go... .

Of course I will “help” in what ever capacity I can... .as in be totally agreeable and ready to apply “grease to the skids” so that this evolution is expedited,

While ago she informed me that she was taking all the furniture, save my boys bedroom, and what is in “my man cave”... .

She can have it all, I really don’t care, I will be cordial and agreeable and take all the blame as she sails off down the street... .

But once that main hatch closes... .it closes for good !

... .I’ve had quite enough of this,

Once she is gone things will be peaceful in our lives once again, like it was back in 2006 after my first divorce... .it was just me and the kids... .I miss that,

Thanks for listening... .Red5
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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2018, 08:20:13 PM »

"Taking all the furniture" seems like them's fighting words, as if she expected you to challenge her.

My ex, when he left, took several things that he gave me as gifts--at the time, I realized he had bought those things for himself, but he justified it as giving it to me as birthday or Christmas presents... .and when he packed up and left with them, I knew the truth. It actually made me smile during a very difficult time, but the truth set me free--as did divorce court!
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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2018, 08:46:07 PM »

"Taking all the furniture" seems like them's fighting words, as if she expected you to challenge her.

Maybe so, but I really don’t care... .I am pretty desperate for her to leave... .so yes, she can really have it all!

I started completely over after my first divorce in 2006, .from scratch basically... .with three teenagers to boot!

I have to say that I do look forward to doing this all over again... .wow,

What does it say about a person, who one day has experienced such a grevious loss as what happened yesterday... .that little dog had been her companion for fourteen years... .she got her right after her first divorce... .yesterday’s event was terrible, she was a very special member of the family, we all loved her and we had to watch her pass away... .Jesus I’m crying just writing this... .

But less than twenty four hours later, she changes her channel and declares she is leaving me... .’after she started the whole dang thing’... .I’m still greiving little Kricket dog, but her, no I’m not, not one tear... .I’m actually relieved in the pending eventuality that she may be leaving for good... .I am having a hard time understanding this... .how can her mind work that way,  but who really knows what goes on in a BPD’s mind... .

And who whacks an autistic boy (man?) in the head... .she went after it... .you should have heard her “JADE” to big sis #2 earlier on the phone... .about how the 180 pound man child threatened her... .ugh ; (

My son is like a compilation of Forrest Gump - the “Rain Man” - and Gilbert Grape’s little brother “Arnie”... .

... .just the sweetest kid... .so why all the authoritarianism... .could it be “foo related trama”... .survey says... .yes!

Yeah, take it all, take the dishes, the coffee pot... .the washing machine... .take the trash outa the trash can... .just please go... .that might be a “cat in the hat” jingle  !

She poured out all my wine today too, said I was a lazy drunk... .hmmm,

Red5
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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2018, 10:19:27 PM »

I'm so sorry about little Kricket, on top of everything else.

BPD can twist situations into unrecognizable distortions... .  but you can't figure that out in the moment because it's all behind the storm of emotions. And it's all other people who are the problem.
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« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2018, 10:43:44 PM »

I'm so sorry about little Kricket, on top of everything else.

BPD can twist situations into unrecognizable distortions... . but you can't figure that out in the moment because it's all behind the storm of emotions. And it's all other people who are the problem.

I am very weary of being distorted and twisted... .tonight she said on the phone to her sis, “living here is not doing my health any good”... .wow, just wow... .

As she is the one who is constantly stiring up trouble in our home... .if it’s not one thing then it’s something else, most times... .if not every time; totally manufactured mayhem and chaos... .

I am quite sure that tomorrow will bring even more.

I expect to be completely character assasinated once again to her foo, as they are the ones who will help in her escape from this terrible home she is living in.

She showed me a long ago whom she really is... .but I dismissed it... .

What’s the line... .“when a person shows you who they really are, believe them the first time”,

It’s going to be tuff for a while, but I think that myself and my son will be much better off on our own.

Oh’ well... .

Red5
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« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2018, 10:58:29 AM »

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This topic has reached its post length and is now closed. Please feel free to start a new topic if you need additional help!
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