NPD/"milder" situation, but it still hurts

[Woolspinner2000]

Awesome encouragement and game plan, Harri!

Aslowrealization, you are soo much farther ahead already than you were last year and even a few weeks ago! I know we tend to be hard on ourselves when we feel like we failed at achieving our boundaries, but please be kind to yourself. Seeing what happened, even in retrospect, is opportunity for growth. And that you are definitely doing. Hug yourself instead of getting irritated because you need the reward for seeing with new eyes and hearing with new ears. 

Wools

[aslowrealization]

Well. It came. It happened. It went. Overall it was fine. I’m on a train back to the place I’m staying. Alone. I’m safe and relieved.

As she’s in rehab, she has been getting plenty of top notch attention, which she let us know many times over (not in a “I appreciate what they do” way... .in a “this says something about me and my status in the world” way). Having a good stream of care and attention meant that the attacks from her were kept to a minimum. Of course she let me know that some family acquaintance sent her balloons (my sib asked if they were the ones their friend, who mom loves and has said she wish she had as an in law, had sent) and she made this comment: “you don’t hear from the people you’d expect but you do hear from the people you don’t expect.” You know she relished the moment she asked me to push her in her wheelchair (sib jumped at the chance most of the time) and I had to take my “rightful” place. She made me take her to another room for two seconds and go right back. Total power move.

I stepped away a lot, wrote up much of this post while I was there, and ended up staying much longer than I would have if I were on my own (since sib drove).

But I was (and am) OK.

Two things surprised me a bit about the visit. One was how much when there is a GC/SG dynamic, the GC constantly caters to the PD. My sib was the one giving her the positive comments, telling her she was healing up nicely, offering to push her in her wheelchair and take care of her, getting things for her, offering to visit every day while they’re in town. etc. I refused to play along. I helped when I was asked but did not try and “out-care” my sib, even as I saw them puffing up with their own supply.

The other wildcard was that a very chatty fellow patient was sat at the same table as us. I was doing the best I could to be grey, blah, and calmly responsive. This meant not trying to make typical nice conversation as this would be yet another competition. This lady interjected with her own questions, when did we get there, when are we leaving. Then she hit me with a “you’re so quiet!” (as an introverted person, I’m all too familiar though I haven’t gotten one in years). I looked her dead in the eyes and said “I know” and just kept eating. She chuckled. I saw my sib smirk out of the corner of my eye. Sometimes not playing means not caring if you don’t come across as the nicest, even to people other than the PD. Not being mean, but being neutral (which, especially for women, can feel like mean). This same lady made some joke about her daughter being jealous of her granddaughter for buying a new house (so she bought a stove) and went on about several of her successful grandchildren (except one)... .I’ll just leave that one on the table as I definitely don’t know enough about her to say more.

On the flight over, I casually watched the movie “War Game”... .not realizing that it was a perfect pre-PD family encounter source of strength. *Spoiler alert* The movie ends with the lesson that because the game of war is impossible to win, the only way to “win” is to not play. I didn’t play, friends. I did not play.

I also told her about Christmas (sib, who said they weren’t going to be there, now says “maybe”)... .though I’m fully expecting to get a “so when are you flying in?” text or email from her in a few weeks. I am becoming more and more OK with not paralleling sib in everything, even if it’s a bit scary right now.

Whew, whew whew... .taking a break just to be for a little while this weekend... .then soldiering on.

Hope you all who are celebrating are having/had a nice or at least manageable Thanksgiving... .it will end, it will end, it will end... .

[Harri]

You got through it!  Of course you did, I never doubted that... .but you got through it!  It sounds like you handled things very well too.

Two things surprised me a bit about the visit. One was how much when there is a GC/SG dynamic, the GC constantly caters to the PD. My sib was the one giving her the positive comments, telling her she was healing up nicely, offering to push her in her wheelchair and take care of her, getting things for her, offering to visit every day while they’re in town. etc. I refused to play along. I helped when I was asked but did not try and “out-care” my sib, even as I saw them puffing up with their own supply.

Try to imagine for a minute what life must be like for your sibling.  I'm not trying to get you to like them or anything but maybe get some perspective on this (don't know if it is needed though.  If it is not, just ignore this next part).  Being the golden child, with all the praise comes at a heavy price.  Heavy enmeshment, poorly differentiated self, being ruled by Fear, obligation and guilt.  Sometimes we forget that the GC or split white sibling was/is abused pretty badly on an emotional level.  It is sad really as so few ever come to the realization that they were abused, like many of us who were emotionally abused.

Anyway, that is where my head went when I read the highlighted part of your post.

It has been a few hours since you left.  Are you more settled?

[aslowrealization]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on my sib, Harri... .I didn’t quite know how to articulate it when I’d come right out of that experience but that is actually a huge part of what I saw when I came to this encounter with fuller knowledge and awareness of this behavior... .like I could see how my sib is (from my perspective) manipulated by her and falls in line so quickly that there really is no space for more of a back and forth or attempt to balance out some of the care... .It was like it was so automatic on their part to respond to her demands that neither of us could pause, take a breath, non-verbally say “you get this one?” “It’s ok, I got this”... .which, if we were, might actually break the cycle of supply and control. Instead, it was like watching someone else race to get the cookie that was dangled out by mom time after time after time.

There were times I thought about checking in with them, broaching the subject somehow... .are they OK? How do they feel about responding to mom right now? No, really, it’s OK to say the truth?

But I’m not sure how I would do that. I barely even know how to relate to them right now as everything felt so much more like a competition than I’d even imagined, and while mom didn’t personally attack or put me down much, sib did say a few things that either emulated what she usually does or got her into what I can only call a (u) narc to (u) narc conversation (mostly revelling in proximity to high status in some way, talking about how well they caught on with various aspects of the care process/understanding the surgery, or putting the other members of the extended family who’d been involved down for how they handled things/not being as quick to catch on). It’s hard not to think of all of this stuff as perspective... .maybe they’re perfectly okay with how they relate to mom? Maybe they have their own reasons for doing what they’re doing and see catering to her as part of a trade off?

So basically... .it feels like my sib could be suffering in this as well or because of their own way of looking at the world, they could be totally okay showing up, doing the song and dance to keep in mom’s good graces, and then going about their business. Or maybe a bit of both, or something else entirely? There is possibly a lot more to the story than what I’m able to see.

[Harri]

So basically... .it feels like my sib could be suffering in this as well or because of their own way of looking at the world, they could be totally okay showing up, doing the song and dance to keep in mom’s good graces, and then going about their business. Or maybe a bit of both, or something else entirely? There is possibly a lot more to the story than what I’m able to see.

Yes to all of this.  We have no idea, unless they say something, about how they feel or how much awareness they have.  For years I struggled with the question of whether to tell my brother any of my thoughts about my mom.  I finally decided that I would not say anything.  He was (and still is in many way, still connected to her (she is dead btw).  It has taken about 16 years for him to be okay with knowing that I did not like our mother.  loved her, but I do not worship her and i don't talk like I do.  I never bad mouth her to him (or anyone really) and I am very careful of what I say or joke about (I have a warped sense of humor).  Every T I have had has said to let him come to his own conclusions about her. 

As I have healed and just with the passage of time, I was able to let go of the need for him to know or to talk about it with someone who lived it with me.  The fact is that while my brother was horribly abused and in my mind worse than I was, he had a very different relationship with her than I did.  Who am I to judge it or him or try to educate him?  Some things come up.  For example a couple years ago I said to him "I know mom treated you really badly" and his response was "she treated me just fine".  I backed off.  He is not ready for it.  If someone is in denial, it is not for me to get them out of it.  I am not qualified given the kind of abuse we both went through.

Anyway, what you said obviously touched a part of me that needed to talk.  Sorry to make this all about me. 

Are you able to see who your siblings are apart from your mother?  See them and appreciate them for them rather than having your perspective of them colored by how they respond and react to her?  It took me a while to be able to and to get beyond the anger and resentment I felt towards my brother for being the one she liked the best.  It took a while for me to see the price he paid.

You are right.  Your siblings may also be getting something out of the relationship they have with her and you know what?  I am okay with that too... .well, not that I have anything to say about it.  That is their choice and denial or awareness, they are responsible for their choices and all choices have consequences. 

Okay... .I am full on lasagna and turkey and way too chatty.  Not sure I am making sense so i am going to stop here.

Take good care.   

[aslowrealization]

It sounds like you’ve found a resolution to that “do I tell them?” question that you are at peace with, Harri. I’m happy to hear it  It can be difficult when we cannot share these insights with someone who we’ve spent so much of our lives with (and could potentially be someone we can support and be supported by in healing and coping) but we can’t make anyone see what they’re not ready or willing to see. It’s possible that the passing of your mother makes things even more difficult when it comes to seeing it all, as sometimes we have a rosier picture of a loved one we’ve lost. It doesn’t help that there are many social benefits for playing the “good child” game, especially when it comes to mothers.The thought of losing these benefits alone could be a huge barrier for some people to begin this journey.

I admit I struggle with separating my sib from the NPD-traits they may be exhibiting as a way of connecting with mom or may actually be who they are (just as mom is who she is). Either way, my radical acceptance needs to include both them and my mom for who they are and how they are relating right now. It’s something I would not have picked up on without this family time, so some good has come  from it.

Lasagna and turkey sounds delicious! Enjoy that food coma and thanks again for sharing your thoughts this evening.

[Panda39]

I'm so happy to hear about your Thanksgiving.  I had a Christmas with my mother that was much the same.  I was present and in the interactions, but also watching them too.  When our perspective changes it's very enlightening to look at all of these family dynamics.  I like you saw some things going on with my interactions with my mom that I hadn't noticed before.

In terms of Golden Child & Scapegoat... .neither are a good place to be, both are painful in their own ways and have their own repercussions.

Some related reading... .

BPD Behaviors: Problematic Parenting... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65426.0

BPD Behaviors: Splitting... .
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0

Emotional Incest (in terms of your sister - but you could have experienced some of this too)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=127914.0

Panda39

[aslowrealization]

Some related reading... .

Thank you for posting those links, Panda... .some of what was written their did strike a cord. From the first one, the pedestal and inconsistency were most familiar. Following "inconsistency," she generally splits my sib white and me black but this shifts and changes, even within one conversation. With emotional incest, I absolutely felt like a third wheel on Thursday, especially when mom and sib were reminiscing about all that happened during the surgery period. But third wheel (or not a wheel at all!) is a position that's more than welcome to me on this bicycle of abuse.

From my perspective, this behavior picked up when my father became very sick and eventually passed away and has gotten worse with the fact that my mom is now going through a serious illness of her own. It's possible that the insecurity that is prompting it comes from not having a partner by her side and desperately trying to make a number of people fill that role for her (and lashing out when others show anything other than complete devotion - she even criticized my sib for "allowing themselves to be controlled" by one of their friends who was simply inviting them to an event this weekend... .ha). I largely refuse and my sib seems to be complying. It's even the little things, like she tried to show me the incision scar and I politely declined, telling her that it was private (and still didn't budge even after both she and sib jumped to saying "well, [sib] saw it."). The expectation that we're responsible for her happiness is definitely there, even though it's not something that I think people should look to their actual partners for. Doing to contribute to a partner's happiness is one thing, but it's quite another to rely heavily on compliance or certain behavior from any other person for one's "joy cookies" in life.

Now that I'm settled and home, mom seems to be freaking out a bit. She sent me a "sweet" had-a-nice-time-love-you message Thanksgiving evening and I responded something echoing it. Today she sent me an "is everything ok" (this seems common with PDs when boundaries start going up) and even pulled the "I've been having dreams" (she does this when she feels like she needs to manipulate others into believing that they are unwell  (or split them black in her own mind) so much that allegedly the old southern "mystical realm" (often, she'll say her own mother came to her in a dream) has us "pegged"... .I will not fall for this faux-spiritual pulling rank of sorts any more. I suspect she and sib have created a narrative in which I'm the unwell one (not helped by the situation of a third party- the lady from dinner- who might support their assessment). I think the thing that might be terrifying her most is that I may finally be on to her game (true) and actually cut her off (possible), then she'd have to look bad in front of the rest of the family and her friends.

I did answer back with a calm and simple response that said that I am not unsafe but have realized some things lately and do need some space for the time being. No response back yet.

[aslowrealization]

Just a quick note to say she did respond. Basically she just said she respects that I need space right now, she's available to talk when needed and that I "don't have to be alone"... .in her mind, I have some sort of issue that has nothing to do with her, and she's nothing but a good, supportive person. This is fine - I did not expect her to pick up on the hints that the issue might be with behavior coming from her and the family. I don't know if there is any reason to make that clear, at least not at this point.

[Harri]

 

I don't know if there is any reason to make that clear, at least not at this point.

The only reason I can think of has to do with you but I am not sure if it is important to you.  We each make our own choices.  Sometimes saying something can be healing.  Not because of any expected response, that they will hear us or even apologize, from them but rather to hear us speak up and tell our story.

I never felt the need to do so.  For me it was more important that I speak up about present things and say no and leave the past for me to own and deal with.  Being comfortable and confident in my truth without needing validation from them was my goal. 

Anyway, I think you are handling this very well!  How do you feel with your mom thinking that you have some mysterious issue you are dealing with?

[aslowrealization]

For me, the healing from naming this and saying it out loud does not depend on saying it to her or having her accept or acknowledge it. Same goes for everyone in my family. It feels uncomfortable right now, that from my view I’m setting boundaries that may be written off by many or even most in my family as me being unwell. If that is the price of a chance at healing then I will take it.

I am now more aware that this is the very sort of gaslighting that can keep people trapped in abusive relationships. If the abuser switches gears suddenly when the target of abuse starts to pull away or changes the tone of interactions, suddenly the abuser puts on the “heeeeey, I’m a good guy. I’m just worried about you. You look sick.” act. Then the abused might be tricked into thinking “well they really are just a concerned and caring person, maybe something really is wrong with me and my perception.” Nope... .not today, ma’am.

I also remember what would happen if I acted how I actually felt. To be honest, I had a wonderful week and very enjoyable solo day on Wednesday. If I weren’t gray rocking it, I’d be cheery and bright. I would have loved to be able to talk about all the things I saw and did and some of the truly beautiful moments I’ve had since I saw her last... .but that’s not our relationship. When she asked me about work and I told her it’s been a bit busy leading up to the holidays, she immediately went into one of her stock stories about how she worked over one holiday at her job with a high status company over thirty years ago, but said “never again” because she has a family (she mentions her old job a lot, I’ve noticed, when she’s feeling insecure... .it came up a number of times over this visit... .my grad school graduation weekend was an absolute nightmare). I didn’t say anything about working over the holidays... .I just said were busy leading up to them. But she had to try and get a rank pull with a dash of “family first” guilt in anyway! This simple exchanged showed me that things could have gotten much worse if I expressed any joy about... .well, pretty much anything.

So, long story short, she can go ahead and think what she wants, as it’s not based on how I actually feel but rather how I have chosen to act around her right now to counter this behavior. Even then, there is nothing “unwell” about developing coping strategies for risky encounters with abusive people. If someone tries to write you off as unwell, even going to lengths of pulling from some external source of authority (eg- dreams, “hunches” or instincts, the false “I know you better than anyone” line, “so and so also said”), do not believe them, friends. They do not know the truth about what you’re feeling right now and they definitely do not know you better than anyone else.

[Mustbeabetterway]

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