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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Cell Phone Monitoring Software?  (Read 565 times)
scraps66
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« on: August 14, 2020, 08:56:42 AM »

Has anyone used any of these?  Seems like there is a lot more out there to pick from.  I have an S13 and S15 who both have unmonitored iPhone's provided by my exwuNPDBPDw. 

Over the last two years it has been a huge struggle to monitor and control their obsession with their phones.  I have found troubling content, pornographic photos, lude texting language, suggestive photos, mass profanity, etc, on S15s phone.  Mother does not agree with what I think is wrong about S15s cell phone usage. 

My most recent episode had me finding a pornographic photo, taken by S15, while at a sleepover.  I alerted mother about it prior to confronting S15.  She refused to check his phone or discuss with S15 - so I thought.  A day later after doing some fact checking, and having S15s phone in my possession, I pickup the discussion again.  With her.  At this point she was the only one I had told about the photo, or photos.  They were deleted from the phone at this point.  What I then realized - she had deleted the pictures!  She played dumb like a fox.

So this is the depth of mothers games.  S15 speaks in his texts as if he is in a porn movie.  Mothers reaction to this was to delegate this conversation to S15, to have this conversation with me.  This is not the first time this has happened.  Nowadays she is consistently using the kids as messengers refusing to communicate with me.

I have brought this up with my L, and the risks are obvious, if any of these photos were to get out, be circulated, or if another parent were to see their child's photo there could be big trouble. 

I had two years ago removed the internet from his phone after finding these same bad things. Mother's reaction was that, "that is my phone and you can't make changes to it that I don't approve."  When I wanted to take up the dialogue further, the line went dead, and she reprogrammed the phone restricting my access.  FF two years and now S15 has this stuff on his phone.

So this is what I'm trying to stay ahead of but proving exhausting and mother just won't cooperate.   
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 09:50:04 AM »

scraps66, ugh, you've been through a lot. I bet it feels like a continual uphill battle.

This might sound counterintuitive, but... OK. There are 2 strands to this, I think.

One is that it's inappropriate at best, and profoundly damaging as you know, for your teenage son to have access to pornographic material. I know that's not what you would want for him, and in an ideal situation, you guys would be able to have that heart to heart talk about respect, boundaries, etc, and he would stop the behaviors.

I get that that is not the world you are living in. You are living in a world where your son's mom both denies there is a problem and in the same breath makes it your problem. We deal with that dissonance too. Trying to deal with the specifics with your son... he probably just shuts down and denies as well, because that's what mom models.

So...

Is there a way that your son can experience some "natural consequences" for having this material on his phone? I don't know how it would play out, but would his school give him disciplinary action, or put him in some kind of counseling program/group, or otherwise give him consequences for his phone content -- especially if it involved other students?

Could you be OK with S15 experiencing the fallout? Loss of privileges, etc?

It could be a way to get more professional eyes on the situation.

And I wonder if the consequences, while heavy, might be less serious than if he were, say, 17+ and in the same boat. Maybe it's a "better face the music now than later" situation?

A lot of this idea might be contingent on you reporting the content to the school, though. So maybe talk it through with your L.

Also, I would probably talk with your L about how it would look for you to stop trying to get Mom to cooperate. I.e., she just undermines everything you try to do for the kids, so is there a "bare minimum" or "meeting the letter of the law" level of informing you can do, just to cover your bases, and beyond that you don't even have to try to "get her to do something"? It sounds like she weaponizes any info you give her, even if you're trying to coparent or problem solve, and she uses it to deny, deflect, erase, obscure, etc. So, I wonder if you can just be like "Fine, you don't get that info from me any more" (but in a way where you are meeting any minimum legal requirements).
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EyesUp
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: divorced
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2020, 11:35:24 AM »

Who pays for the phone?

I realize it might far too late, but we asked our kids to sign an agreement when we began to let them use devices.   Our oldest is 12, here is the agreement - we composed it based on 2 or 3 different agreements we found online:

Congratulations! You have proven yourself to be mature and responsible enough for a cell phone. While we trust you to make good decisions, it is important that we make sure you understand the significance of this responsibility.

A cell phone is more than a piece of technology. If used incorrectly, it can be a weapon that puts your safety at risk. You are a great kid and we want to make sure that you continue to make smart choices.

The goal of this agreement is to make sure you are always safe and happy, and that we always maintain a direct and open line of communication. We are asking you to only use your phone for good and to ask us for help when a situation leaves you feeling unsure or scared.

Please review this contract, initial in the spaces given, and let us know if you have any questions.

We love you!

Love,
Mom and Dad




1.   I understand that this is NOT my phone and that it was paid for by my parents. Having this phone is not a right. It is a privilege that can be taken away. __________

2.   I understand that the rules below are for my safety and because my parents love me. I understand that my parents want to give me freedom, while also giving me enough security to make smart choices. _______________

3.   I promise that my parents will always know my passwords and that my parents may look at my phone any time. ______________

4.   I will leave my phone with Mom or Dad at 7pm every night and will get it back in the morning after I am ready for school. __________

5.   I will not send or receive inappropriate pictures or pictures with nudity. Ever. I understand that doing this could lead to serious consequences that could put mine or my parents’ future at risk. ________

6.   I understand that my behavior on my phone can impact my future reputation, even in ways that I am not able to predict or see right now. ___________

7.   I promise I will tell Mom or Dad if I receive suspicious or alarming texts or calls from people I don’t know. I will also tell Mom or Dad if I am being harassed by anyone online or via my cell phone. ________________

8.   I will make an effort to learn phone and internet etiquette. I understand this is an extension of normal manners. I will turn off, silence, or put my phone away when in public or when talking to another person. I am not a rude person and I will not allow the phone to change this important part of who I am. _______________

9.   I will NEVER use my phone or social media to bully or tease anyone, even if my friends think it is funny. ____________

10.   I will not lie about how I am using the phone and promise to answer questions openly, honestly, and directly. _______________



I realize you're in a tough spot, but maybe there's something in here that you can put to use going forward.  If you pay for the phone, you can absolutely set the rules.

Good luck!
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scraps66
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Relationship status: Separated 9/2008, living apart since 1/2010
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2020, 12:03:54 PM »

Who pays for the phone?

Mother pays for S15s phone and that has been one argument, it's "my phone, not yours."  This also echoed to me by S15. 

When he got bad two years ago she succumbed to writing up some rules.  Then I asked to see the rules so I could add to them if necessary.  I send them back, say, "I added a few more rules, he should sign it as if it is a contract." 

When I started enforcing the rules, S15s reaction would be, " well I didn't sing them."  Mother was the only one I mentioned signing the rules to.  So she told him what I said about signing them.  From that point on the rules became something that mother allowed S15 to break. 
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scraps66
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Relationship status: Separated 9/2008, living apart since 1/2010
Posts: 1514



« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2020, 12:15:53 PM »

Is there a way that your son can experience some "natural consequences" for having this material on his phone? I don't know how it would play out, but would his school give him disciplinary action, or put him in some kind of counseling program/group, or otherwise give him consequences for his phone content -- especially if it involved other students?

Could you be OK with S15 experiencing the fallout? Loss of privileges, etc?

Hi kells. For the time being I've been focusing on S15 not getting into more trouble by circulating the stuff he has on his phone.  But I have thought about what might happen if there were legal consequences.  My L's advice was the same as I gave S15, "don't solicit this stuff and don't let anyone see it and don't forward it."  I would have no problem with loss of privileges as a major part of S15s makeup is that there has never been  consistent consequences.  Mother has made certain of that.
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scraps66
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2020, 12:22:10 PM »

A lot of this idea might be contingent on you reporting the content to the school, though. So maybe talk it through with your L.

Also, I would probably talk with your L about how it would look for you to stop trying to get Mom to cooperate. I.e., she just undermines everything you try to do for the kids, so is there a "bare minimum" or "meeting the letter of the law" level of informing you can do, just to cover your bases, and beyond that you don't even have to try to "get her to do something"? It sounds like she weaponizes any info you give her, even if you're trying to coparent or problem solve, and she uses it to deny, deflect, erase, obscure, etc. So, I wonder if you can just be like "Fine, you don't get that info from me any more" (but in a way where you are meeting any minimum legal requirements).

This is pretty much how I have communicated for years.  The bare minimum.  This is why I had alerted mom of this.  What I now realize, mom was the only one I told about the picture from the sleepover.  S15 went to her house, I told mom to look at the phone, however I had not confronted S15.  The following day, after doing a little more fact finding, I had S15s phone and the photo was gone, deleted and deleted from the "recently deleted" folder.  Now I realize - mom deleted it!  Then she sent S15 to my house to find out what I was talking about.  He had already realzied what he had done when I asked him if he was taking pictures at the sleepover, sort of mumbled, "F!."  So I had taken a screenshot, it was the kid laying on the floor, totally naked, with his shirt covering up his mid section.  I show him the picture.  He starts laughing.  Tells me who the kid is and that he just started taking off his clothes at this sleepover.  Hmmmm!  What was telling is, he just started laughing.  Thought  this was not a big deal.  I fear this is where he is, with all that he has been able to get into with his phone, how much porn I don't know and how many photos he's received, that he thinks this is OK.  That four boys would be together and one of them takes his clothes off and he takes a picture.  Concerning.
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