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Author Topic: I'm not into online dating. Change my mind.  (Read 687 times)
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« on: October 22, 2018, 04:26:11 PM »

Eharmony started around 18 years ago, in august of 2000, though the origin of online dating dates further back, and before that, you had personal ads and other similar means.

my perception in 2000 (i was in middle school) was that all of this was for "lonely people" (as if theres something inherently wrong with being lonely) that couldnt meet anyone. i wasnt alone in that, my perception was formed partly by people around me saying similar things.

obviously, my perception today is very different. all of my friends do (some of whom contributed to my perception), or have done it. today, it is very much how things are done. im the one that isnt with it. i get that.

and i understand why things have shifted. i see a huge convenience to online dating as a medium for people of all ages, in all kinds of ways. there are a billion, targeted sites, that employ good "match makers". most users do both, and use online dating as a means to expand the dating pool/opportunity, an argument i like.

what i cant escape and why it isnt for me, is that it all still seems so awkward, forced, and inorganic to me. "we are both single and looking for a relationship. judge my profile and ill judge yours. we will arrange a blind date, and if we are even who we advertise, we will decide if we like each other and build a relationship from there".

but is that all that different from how it works otherwise? you eye a stranger and force eye contact. you approach them, force an exchange, and try to ask for a number or a date. or you buy them a drink with at the very least a desire to get to know them. the pretenses are largely the same.

i prefer to meet people. not big on just approaching someone because im not that smooth, but say, through a mutual friend. you both exchange that look and are drawn to each other. maybe your friend isnt oblivious and had it in mind. you or the other party or both of you gush to your mutual friend. doesnt have to be an introduction through a friend of course. there are lots of ways to meet people and build attraction over time. i like having that as a basis before i progress.

SO, tell me why im all wrong and not with it, and sell online dating to me and everyone else. or agree with me and tell me why im right! or tell me how you prefer to date/meet people!

lets also discuss:

1. the various conveniences of online dating
2. if you were reluctant to try online dating, what spurred you to do it? has it been a good or bad experience?
3. the pros and cons of online dating, of which there are plenty
4. the pros and cons to whatever in person alternative, of which there are plenty
5. the differences between the two
6. if youve done both, do you have a preference and why?
7. anything else!
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 07:44:54 PM »

You’re right. It’s not natural for people to form a connection over stuff like this. I met S3’s mom online. I will never try that avenue again. It’s too easy for peeps that “need” someone around. I’m kind of old fashioned. I’d rather meet a female on an organic level. To each their own, but Internet dating takes everything away from the human experience of things. Social media in general is doing this.

It may work for certain people. I don’t think that it works for folks like us. We weren’t raised to navigate these waters and I think it’s better off left alone. I think that the grocery store or coffee shop after a long period of healing is our best bet.
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 08:43:12 PM »

Ok. 1-6 of your questions.

1. For me. I was working a night shift. I had no desire to search the nightlife. Playing music showed me this. I felt ready and desired it.

2. Loneliness. It turned out to be a bad experience that was spurred out of desperation. I wanted, therefore I made something happen. I connected with someone that was willing to go down that same path. Now I’m here.

3. In person is where it’s at. Especially with what we’ve learned or are learning here. Online is too easy to fake. The tools+in person seem to make more sense. We’re flesh and blood. We’re not plugged in.

4. The only pro, from personal experience, to online dating is convenience and expedience. But, these things should take time in most cases.   

The cons far outweigh the pros. The bottleneck is the speed that things can progress. I know that it’s not only online dating, but it’s prevalent.

5. Organic. It’s slower and easier to navigate. My plunge into online dating was an act of desperation to not be alone. It turned out really bad for me, so there is some bias at play here.

6. Keep it organic and real. I’m unable to source it, but I heard some stats a while back that were very unsettling about online dating. If you really sit with the idea of it, it’s just not natural.
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 10:23:58 PM »

I thought I'd find someone through church, but who I perceive to be single moms look to be 15 years younger than me.  I made the mistake once by engaging someone my age.  Mistake when I found out she was married.  Casual observation when she drags her husband to church: he might have mental or drug issues. So given the lack of prospects, online?

My buddy divorced a likely BPD (it's a story like one on the worst here) in the 90s. He had a LTGF in the early 2000s. I liked her.  Joined them on a joint weekend retreat with them and sums of her girlfriends. Went to a schwanky work party with them (We met Robert Ballard there,  humble guy). My buddy ended up breaking up with her because despite the fact that she made a good salary, had nothing to show for it.  Reminded him of his ex-wife.  So conflicting core values.

He met her on eHarmony, as he dud his current wife of 6 years. I work with my buddy,  but he commutes over 20 miles from the other direction. I've only met his wife a few times but she's a peach; whereas,  I felt a negative reaction in seconds meeting his first wife at their wedding in the mid 90s. They now have a 5 year old together and are doing well in all aspects.  I'm happy for them.  He met his second wife on eHarmony. He met his previous gf on there as well as a short term gf before that. 

I'm sure you've seen women here comment about it,  but my buddy did as well: "a lot of women are just happy to connect with healthy guys because there are a lot of weirdos they usually deal with."

If I had to role play,  I'd say  that the danger for me would be falling for someone who seemed into me from the get-go.
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 11:37:38 PM »

Hiya Folks! Welcome new member (click to insert in post) Good to be back at the source of my healing over several years time. Many thanks, and extremely grateful this place is still going on helping people. Knowledge is power, and I found my lessons gained here very helpful in the online dating pool. I am meeting people but not committing to meeting until mucho later in the game. I have learned to be very careful before actually meeting in person. For me, verbal contact is 80 %, physical 20%. I am taking my time. It took me quite a few years here with my BPD family during long lonely nights and agonizing days to get to where I can say I am single and free last Thank GOD Almighty!
So this I learned-It takes at least two maybe three years to really know what a personality is like. I am old-school and remember the days when sitting on our porches, basement blue-light parties at our parents house, or school was our online dating source. Friends knew each other for a long time in the neighborhood, and families talked to other families about who we liked. The same is true online guys. You need at least two-three years to really get to see those red, yellow, green flags fly, whether you meet in person or not. I know from being here that some BPD people can cover up the disease for many years before they crack, but most folks say two-years is when the flags start flying. I just dodged a bullet by not letting her hen-peck me into meeting too soon. So Be patient guys. You want quality not quantity. It's like panning for gold like Skip once told me.
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 10:18:35 AM »

I have a close friend who has done the online dating thing for years and never has had a successful relationship come of it.

From what she's told me, there are a number of disturbing patterns that can occur:

1. perpetual "shopping"
She has started dating men, only to find out that they've continued "shopping" for something better/different

2. lying on profiles
This seems to be a common theme she's encountered and she's done it herself (her age--and she got caught). Everyone wants to put their best foot forward, but IRL it's harder to maintain a lie when there are people you and your potential partner both know.

3. deceitful posturing
She's noted that some men say they're "seeking a relationship" when what they want is a notch on the headboard.

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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 12:12:34 AM »

thanks for chiming in everyone, you certainly got me thinking.

2. Loneliness. It turned out to be a bad experience that was spurred out of desperation.

i suppose if i really think about it, theres a risk of this in either/any medium. the internet can certainly make it more obtainable more quickly. loneliness was a catalyst for many of us into a relationship with a similar person, where both parties invested deeply in the idea of healing through it. theres a good lesson there.

3. Online is too easy to fake.

So this I learned-It takes at least two maybe three years to really know what a personality is like.

2. lying on profiles

what i hear you all saying is not to invest too strongly in initial impressions, they can be misleading, and/or we can mislead ourselves. it takes a long time, and trial and error to get to know a person and build a real, lasting connection. does that sound right?

I thought I'd find someone through church, but who I perceive to be single moms look to be 15 years younger than me.  I made the mistake once by engaging someone my age.  Mistake when I found out she was married.

id love to meet a gal at church. mines not too small a church, but very similar problem when it comes to age range. i flirted with a gal once, whom i thought was flirting with me  (completely different church), when she told me she was married and twice my age 

You want quality not quantity. It's like panning for gold like Skip once told me.

it really is. in that sense, i dont think the medium makes a difference apart from extending your options. internet dating goes from online to in person very quickly. i think its a matter of knowing what youre looking for (can take some trial and error) and being able to connect with and attract it, some luck in terms of finding it, and the "right stuff" to make it last. you just gotta be well versed in where youre fishing or panning. its (dating in general) a practical matter of navigating murky waters, even where it applies to the differences with all of the dating sites (looking for a hookup go with tinder, looking for long term potential go elsewhere, or so im told).

bottom line is it still doesnt strike me as my preferred method of meeting people, anyone, at this point in my life, any more than going to the clubs (not a direct comparison, im just not a clubber) would be, any more than an automobile show (i know less about cars than any of you) would be. at the same time, i dont want to miss the boat before i need to catch it, ya know? i know im not necessarily with it, the times they are a changin, and im limiting my options a bit.

so where are you folks that advocate online dating and have navigated those waters? we have members that have found life partners through it.  tell us your experience!
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 03:39:51 AM »

My BPDex is on a dating site now. There are good people and bad oeople everywhere. Please be careful and follow your gut.
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 08:50:12 AM »

once removed   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

i dont want to miss the boat before i need to catch it, ya know? i know im not necessarily with it, the times they are a changin, and im limiting my options a bit.
I don't think you're missing the boat.


Image.

According to that data, people seem to prefer meeting through friends, and even bars, ahead of online; that's despite the sharp increase in online-based dating over the last few years.



Image source article.
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 10:25:28 PM »

I hate online dating. Personally, Id rather meet you in person and be spontaneous and go from there. Id like to see how you are in the spot by striking an unexpected conversation and see if we both can lose track of time in that moment. I want to  get your number and be thinking about it all day. Maybe this also boosts my ego knowing I "got game" ol

online dating is cool for others, I just never could get into it. I downloaded tinder and the amount of people i swiped no for vs yes was sad. for every 50 no i would swipe yes. Maybe im too picky?  

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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 10:41:11 PM »

Thanks for the graph gotbushels. After 6 years, over come to conclude that church is a dead end.  I met my ex through volunteering in the community, being mentors for at risk teens. My cynical side says that such programs attract co-dependents and those who pivot from solving their own problems into solving those of others, falsely believing that they are working on themselves.  However,  I'll just attribute my experience and resulting life to having poor personnel boundaries. 
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 09:12:11 AM »

Ha!  I love this post's title, I'm not into online dating, because it suggests you've spent some time thinking about what you want and that you know your own mind.  It's fine, even admirable I think, to want to meet your next partner IRL.

I hear you've ID'd church as a good potential meeting place though nothing's panned out there yet.  Are there other IRL spaces you can think of that have similar potential?  What is it about church that makes it appealing? 
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 03:12:30 PM »

1. the various conveniences of online dating

Instead of waiting until you run into someone, figure out their interests, their career path, what they are looking for, etc, whereas with someone who has a completed dating profile (not just tinder/pics) you can get a sense of someone and whether you are compatible and share similar education levels or interests. For me that seems useful and has me checking on the app to see if i might be interested in exploring that further.

2. if you were reluctant to try online dating, what spurred you to do it? has it been a good or bad experience?

I was reluctant (still am!) to try, but I wanted to see who else 'is out there' outside of my existing friend group (which I pared down significantly when leaving my ex). I wanted to explore and see what caught my eye, see if I noticed any patterns in what I found interesting or compelling in people's profiles and the ways they presented myself, and reflect on who I am and who I want to be! It's kind of an interesting social experiment. In the abstract sense I want to be more active, outdoors, travelling, fit, be creative and volunteer more- the reality of my day to day routine doesn't reflect my values and my presenting myself to new ppl I kind of had to look at myself and examine that and decide what to do about it. Chalking it up to blaming my ex or mental health isn't satisfying, and I felt more motivated to be a healthier person knowing that if I want to have healthy people in my life that's the best way to move forward. 

3. the pros and cons of online dating, of which there are plenty

Definitely I have more feelings for someone when we get to know each other and I can feel that they care about me as a person, rather than checking out photos/description of me on the web, it feels rather superficial and doesn't have that emotional connection. That said I've encountered new people (via friends) who do have that kind of presence and intensity when they look directly in my eyes and show interest when we meet that sparks my curiosity- however I'm feeling wary about dating within my friends group- don't want to date friend's ex's or crushes. Online seems like a better way to steer clear of that kind of drama though it seems like there's usually just a couple degrees of separation between folks in my city .   

4. the pros and cons to whatever in person alternative, of which there are plenty

I feel like when meeting someone in person there is more space to get to know each other as people/friends and allow interest to develop through flirting and conversation rather than online which feels a bit like a competition to secure a partner from the various options on the 'menu'.

5. the differences between the two

Not enough experience to know for myself! Have never been a relationship that started with a dating app.

6. if youve done both, do you have a preference and why?

Not enough experience to know!

7. anything else!

Part of me seeings starting 'dating' as a catalyst that kind of motivates me to get myself in order, start and stay exercising, engage in healthy routines and hobbies, and spend less time stagnant and hiding from the world, my problems, and my goals. I feel like by putting myself out there I would be more accountable to myself, and meeting my own standards, and maintaining standards with others. I'm not looking to get locked into another commitment, but to explore. My T expressed some valid concerns about this mentality of getting motivated to take care of myself just for 'male attention' but the truth is I've been struggling to practice self care and have felt paralyzed by anxiety/depression and ruminating on my victimhood, and think it might be a good challenge to keep me moving forward- and it's getting cold and it's been too long since I've had anyone to cuddle with and I miss it. :P

I do feel wary about vetting people who might have an unhealthy impact on me and my life again, about practicing healthy boundaries around myself and not getting overly enmeshed or codependent or repeating any of my past patterns.
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2018, 01:53:16 PM »

Both people I've met through online dating and had any relationship  with have ended up being Cluster Bs.

Is it me or them?
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 08:07:23 PM »

I don't think you're missing the boat.

good to know im not, at least not yet!

good ol meeting through friends, and bars. i always think of seth rogen in the 40 year old virgin: "you dont wanta meet a chick at a bar, man... .". i probably attach some stigma to it, but wouldnt rule it out by any means.

it suggests you've spent some time thinking about what you want and that you know your own mind.

for someone "not into it", i sure have put a lot of thought into it! partly, i wonder why something that once had a stigma attached to it is now so popular. my friends are always over here swiping away and talking about their experiences. i think its fine if its not for me too, but i am kind of intrigued by the argument that its just a good way to expand your pool if youre already out there. by and large, thats what my friends are doing.

Are there other IRL spaces you can think of that have similar potential?  What is it about church that makes it appealing?  

honestly no, not off the top of my head, at least. i always kind of liked the idea of meeting someone at a grocery store, but its awfully hard to form a connection there, and i tend to like to have some connection rather than just approaching and going for a number or a date.

i do like Turkish's suggestion of meeting someone at some form of volunteering organization.

shared values tend to make church seem appealing. ive dated girls that have very different views on faith (mostly against it) and its role in relationships/households, sex, things like that. pretty critical stuff. having said that though, i might be more likely to line up on that stuff in particular with someone i meet at church, but not necessarily other things, at least at my church.
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 08:18:26 PM »

well tin, you really nailed it and its good to hear from somebody on the other side of this!

you can get a sense of someone and whether you are compatible and share similar education levels or interests.

its true. a lot of these sites have some pretty elaborate "match makers" in terms of compatibility. that breaks a lot of the ice off the bat (you have stuff to talk about), rules out a lot of folks off the bat.

I wanted to see who else 'is out there' outside of my existing friend group
...
It's kind of an interesting social experiment.
... .
I felt more motivated to be a healthier person knowing that if I want to have healthy people in my life that's the best way to move forward. 

it sounds like youre one of the folks looking to expand the pool, i like that! it also sounds like its mostly been a positive experience in terms of relating to your peers, and figuring out what you want in your life (not just out), and living it as well. great attitude.

I feel like when meeting someone in person there is more space to get to know each other as people/friends and allow interest to develop through flirting and conversation rather than online

i appreciate that too. i would imagine though, that meeting online would tend to lead to meeting in person fairly quickly. it just seems to me like once there, there would be a lot of pressure, sort of like a blind date.

Part of me seeings starting 'dating' as a catalyst that kind of motivates me to get myself in order, start and stay exercising, engage in healthy routines and hobbies, and spend less time stagnant and hiding from the world, my problems, and my goals. I feel like by putting myself out there I would be more accountable to myself, and meeting my own standards, and maintaining standards with others. I'm not looking to get locked into another commitment, but to explore.

solid case for online dating, tin!
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 08:48:10 PM »

I’m going to be very blunt here in saying that I don’t feel that online dating is a good idea for anyone that has a history of being abused. I say this out of care, not bias. Wounded folks shouldn’t swim in shark infested waters.

Online dating has it’s place, I guess. But that place isn’t for vulnerable people trying to heal. It shouldn’t be a testing ground because that’s being dishonest to potential contacts IMHO. Call it a risk based endeavor, numbers game or whatever. Again, being blunt, it’s basically effortless and very potentially hazardous. I don’t think that anyone of us here wants to find ourselves back at square one. Just my opinion.
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 09:04:04 PM »

Wounded folks shouldn’t swim in shark infested waters.

interesting point JNChell. in your view, what would you say distinguishes online dating from "IRL" dating, in that regard?

would you say one or both are safer once healed?
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 09:13:46 PM »

My T reminded me, especially at my age,  that "everyone has wounds."
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 12:41:30 PM »

BTW, You all know that a person with BPD can manipulate and fool you whether you meet in real time or online time right?  Paragraph header (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2018, 06:36:39 PM »

Hey, OR. Good question.

interesting point JNChell. in your view, what would you say distinguishes online dating from "IRL" dating, in that regard?

would you say one or both are safer once healed?


I guess I should open my response with the fact that I’m not yet able to look at this through the scope of being healed. I apologize for the knee jerk judgment call, but will do my best to answer your question from where I’m currently at.

I’m not a fan of electronic communication. It’s nearly impossible to pick up on certain things. It’s difficult to emote and to observe emotions. Was she really laughing at my humor attempt, or was she rolling her eyes? I believe that intuition is also inhibited when it’s an initial electronic “connection”.

You know, while typing this and thinking about your question, it likely comes down to where a person is at in their healing and how confident they are with their values and boundaries, what a successful and sustainable relationship looks like to them based on that and what the potential deal breakers are. I’m also thinking about how our confidence in ourselves and trusting our barometer would play into moving forward with a potential online romantic interest. I guess it comes down to the individual and where they are with themselves.

With all of that blather being said, I will most likely avoid online dating if I ever even decide to put myself out there again.

Are you leaning one way or the other at this point?
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2018, 06:54:53 PM »

Turkish, I’ve not heard this, but it makes sense and you make a good point. Something that comes to mind is that some wounds are deeper than others, and the same wound can affect individuals differently. It’s kind of like the spectrums and the variables on the spectrums that are discussed here.

GlennT makes a good point. I’ve met them in person as well.

I do have to say that social media/online socialization has had a big hand in the rise of narcissism within society. I’m not steering away from OR’s topic, I just think that it needs to be taken into consideration when stepping into the pool of online connection.
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2018, 12:36:17 PM »

GlennT interesting idea.    Does that make dating offline and online an equally valued decision to you?
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2018, 01:01:43 PM »

I’m not a fan of electronic communication. It’s nearly impossible to pick up on certain things. It’s difficult to emote and to observe emotions.

agreed. i think the idea behind it though is that you have a brief chit chat, then make plans to get together in person. for the most part, if the exchange remains limited to text, its going to feel like wasting time to at least one party. to me, its a lot like buying a car online. a great resource for a variety of reasons. but youre gonna want to see the car, and test it out, before you close that deal.

Are you leaning one way or the other at this point?

i think some great cases have been made and i can see the benefit of having online dating as one aspect of the dating process/meeting people, so im not totally closed off to it. im not ready to really pursue dating yet - i dont have enough on the ball yet in my life in terms of attracting a mate, so getting that together is my first priority. when i am ready, i would be inclined explore other avenues first in terms of dating/meeting people.
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2018, 12:54:04 PM »

GlennT interesting idea.    Does that make dating offline and online an equally valued decision to you?

Actually, I prefer to meet online because I have learned that the high functioning types really wow me much more in person. The low-functioning types cannot do that. I have noticed BPD is becoming more common, so I am no longer rushing into relationships now. Online gives me that freedom to simply talk and learn about people much more regularly.  With the high functioning ones it takes a lot of time to see through the mask. No difference online or real time. They can keep the mask on for years! But close to two years is when the facade breaks or starts to, that is, if they really believe they love you. I have  been researching and keeping records how people with BPD interact with others on social web-sites. Sort of like reading the Racing Form when you bet on horses.  The folks who do not have a personality disorder will not turn their  interactions into a drama or personally intense mode, and back again, in time like a BPD will. They will continue to be only friendly to a greater or lesser degree as much time passes.
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