Guardian ad litem Home Visit, What To Expect?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since I've posted, mostly because not much has been happening.

TL;DR review of my story: uBPDstbxw overdosed on pills last winter and moved 7 hours out of state after getting out of the hospital.  I filed for divorce, and we're still waiting on a hearing.  S5 lives with me when he's in school.

A few months ago, she requested a guardian ad litem for S5.  My L didn't object, and my T thinks it will likely help my case more than anything.  Plus last I heard, uBPDstbxw still hasn't paid her half of the guy's retainer... .

The guardian ad litem is visiting my house next Monday afternoon.  Any pointers on what to expect?

Otherwise, things are going great.  My T is amazed at my transformation since he first started seeing me.  Back then, my whole life was uBPDw/S5/work (and mostly uBPDw).  Now I have so much more time for myself.  I've become active in my church, spend lots of time outdoors hiking and kayaking, and just started serving as S5's den leader in Cub Scouts.

[prof]

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since I've posted, mostly because not much has been happening.

TL;DR review of my story: uBPDstbxw overdosed on pills last winter and moved 7 hours out of state after getting out of the hospital.  I filed for divorce, and we're still waiting on a hearing.  S5 lives with me when he's in school.

A few months ago, she requested a guardian ad litem for S5.  My L didn't object, and my T thinks it will likely help my case more than anything.  Plus last I heard, uBPDstbxw still hasn't paid her half of the guy's retainer... .

The guardian ad litem is visiting my house next Monday afternoon.  Any pointers on what to expect?

Otherwise, things are going great.  My T is amazed at my transformation since he first started seeing me.  Back then, my whole life was uBPDw/S5/work (and mostly uBPDw).  Now I have so much more time for myself.  I've become active in my church, spend lots of time outdoors hiking and kayaking, and just started serving as S5's den leader in Cub Scouts.

[flourdust]

It's nothing really to worry about -- the GAL might be interviewing you and/or S5 (though I think they prefer to do that in an office setting), will want to see how S5 and you interact at home, get a basic sense of the home environment. I'd recommend cleaning up if necessary and maybe thinking of some common activities you and S5 can do together if the GAL wants to observe you.

Assuming you have running water, a bed for S5, and no vermin running around in plain sight, you should be fine.

[ForeverDad]

And don't have dirty dishes in the sink or dirty clothes on the floor.  It's the little things that might get into a report that really don't mean that much in themselves but presumably they believe it could indicate your usual lifestyle patterns.

More important is that you selected a good and experienced GAL.  GALs come in a wide range of flavors, from excellent to lousy, politely stated.  There have been reports that some are new lawyers that haven't built up a practice yet, which means they may be clueless or gullible to the ex's slick emotional manipulation.  Apparently experienced lawyers don't want to do work that doesn't pay well.  Others report having some with the social worker focus or background.  Technically a GAL is the children's lawyer, representing them and not either parent.

In all it will probably be a toss-up, some good aspects, some not so good and therefore at least some of it may be frustrating.

My son's GAL was a social worker lawyer.  She worked with a multi-county agency that supported juveniles.  I concluded her expertise was really with juvenile delinquents, not children with misbehaving parent(s) as was our family dynamic.  So when I got a green light to seek full custody, she was hired as GAL.  She "hoped" that by keeping us with equal time that ex would behave better by having access to child support.  Yeah, like that would work.  Still, there wasn't much choice but to settle according to the GAL's wishes.  If either of us parents had chosen making court decide then court almost surely would have sided with GAL's recommendation.  (I ended up returning to court the next year, spending another 17 months again seeking - and this time gaining - majority time.)

[Panda39]

I agree with everyone else and would add keep any anger (if there still is any) or negative comments about your ex to yourself.

Otherwise just be yourself on your best behavior.

I was a Den Mother when my son was little, I thought Cub Scouts was really fun for the little kids and us big kids too 

Panda39

[Panshekay]

I agree with Panda39, don’t show any anger and don’t talk badly about your Ex.  The GAL is supposed to be looking out for the child, they should not have any preconceived ideas in regards to who is the better parent.  Just be yourself with your child, be pleasant and have your house tidy, laundry done, dishes done. What our son did was he had a game or something ready for when one of the GAL came, and even invited her to play. This kind of broke the ice.  So do something with your child that he would consider fun. I know not all GAL will want to participate, but it’s just a thought. The other GAL had no desire to ever meet with our S.  Yep, she’s eating crow now. ;-)   In a nut shell what we have found is the parent who is willing to co-parent (we know that doesn’t always work) who doesn’t talk badly about the other parent, who is willing  to do what ever it takes for your child to have both parents in his life (even though that may not always be the case)  is the parent most professionals want. If there are serious issues with the other parent then of course those have to be mentioned, but unless they are truly serious issues I wouldn’t mention anything the fist time meeting with the GAL.  Keep it light, and show an honest picture of how you parent.

[Waddams]

we keep a chore chart and posted rules of the house and consequences for breaking them up on the fridge.  there isn't any debating, just boundaries, house jobs (age appropriate), and what happens when el kiddo steps out of line.  it's all enforced with as much stoic-ness and composure as possible. 

we also keep a list of "extras" - S14 does something particularly well, he gets it listed and gets an extra credit reward for it.  Money, or a trip or treat somewhere, etc.

helps keep things consistent in the house for all.  if i have a bad day at work, and s14 doesn't thing boneheaded, i can go to the list and enforce a consequence.  keeps me from having to think too much and helps me keep my composure when i'm having a bad a day myself, so i don't take anything out on anyone else that i shouldn't. if s14 is copping an attitude, i can just keep referring to the consequences list and enforce it, helps me not get pissed off and react to this attitude.

showing proactiveness about keeping things consistent for rules, boundaries, rewards, etc. - i dunno whether a GAL would really appreciate it, but it certainly helps me run the household.

[prof]

Thanks everyone -- I really appreciate your responses!

I'm spending the weekend tidying up.  I'll report back Monday night to let you know it went.

[ForeverDad]

A good GAL will be watching the relationship between you and your child.  I recall when my Custody Evaluator met with our son, a session for each parent.  He noted that my parenting was better than my ex's.  I wondered what I did?  I just acted naturally.

[prof]

GAL just left.  I think it went well.  He mostly just watched S5 while he painted some pictures, and then S5 gave him a tour of his room.

He asked me a couple questions about S5's school and health, and then whether there had been much disagreement with uBPDstbxw.  I mentioned this past summer, when she refused to return him at the date I requested.  But I was pretty laid back about it -- I tried to avoid being too negative.

I called my L afterward -- he's going work on getting a hearing set up.  It will be good to move forward!

[Panda39]

Glad to hear it went well. 

Panda39

[Panshekay]

I’m glad it went well. After everything we all go through it is easy to have anxiety over the unknown.  It’s like we become hyper sensitive because we don’t know what to expect and worry that the other parent will be the one believed. I know our S second guessed himself at times because in the beginning his X was believed.  It’s nice to hear good positive news!

[prof]

The GAL got in touch with my L the other day with a few requests.  One was for an anger management assessment for me.  It was pretty clear from the GAL's wording of the request that this was based on uBPDstbxw's allegations and not on the GAL's observation of my behavior.  I gave my L my T's contact information and haven't heard anything further yet.

uBPDstbxw's behavior had been pretty civil recently.  However, she ran into some money issues the last couple weeks, and I lent her a little cash.  (One of my L's strategies during the divorce process has been to be the nice guy financially, e.g., paying her student loan and credit card bills, to help counter her allegations that I'm some narcissistic monster.  She paid me back ASAP when I loaned her gas money a couple times recently, so I relented.)

It's looking like these money troubles may have triggered a depression.  Now she doesn't want to meet to exchange S5 for Thanksgiving and is talking about getting rid of her pets.  I'm willing to take one cat back (We got him together as a couple, and him leaving has been one of the hardest parts of the split!), but I said no to the dog, who predated our relationship.

She dragged up these old fears that I'm going to take S5 away from her.  She's convinced that's why I hired a L -- if I were going to be civil about things, then we could do the divorce ourselves.  She doesn't accept my argument that family law is complicated and there's no way we could figure it out on our own!

She also has this memory that I convinced her to be a SAHM when I got my first job, and uses that to fuel this argument about how much she sacrificed for me and how dare I not continue paying her student loan or consider delaying the divorce until after she's found medical insurance... .

I'm mostly just ranting at this point.  It's been a relatively blissful few months with very few BPD moments, but today's phone conversation brought up a lot of old, bad memories.

[prof]

Interesting update:  I dropped off S5 for Thanksgiving break yesterday.  During the droppoff, uBPDstbxw informed me that someone (not sure who) gave her $6000.  She used $5000 to retain an attorney.  So my case just got more interesting... .

[ForeverDad]

If you both work then it may be harder for her to try to make you pay her bills.  However, she may try anyway.  (She loses nothing by trying.)  If she really did get someone to 'give' her $$$ rather than loan her $$$ then you could have the stance that you should not have to reimburse her for money she was 'gifted'.  Odds are that if you tell her now the potential difference between support as gifts versus loans then she may quickly correct herself and claim it was a loan.  So just don't comment on it and keep an eye on how she describes things in writing.

In other words, you pay your bills, she pays her bills. If anything is adjudicated differently then that can be address in the financial wrangling closer to the end of the divorce.  Be forewarned that lawyers smell the end of the case looming and are anxious to skip through the $$$ issues in minutes.

[worriedStepmom]

She dragged up these old fears that I'm going to take S5 away from her.  She's convinced that's why I hired a L -- if I were going to be civil about things, then we could do the divorce ourselves.  She doesn't accept my argument that family law is complicated and there's no way we could figure it out on our own!

My H's uBPDxW has the same way of looking at things.  She really dysregulated in the weeks before the first hearing and then reused to show up.  She finally told H that she was convinced that the judge would take one look at her and decide she should never see her daughter again.  That may be your ex's fear as well.

We also later realized that uBPDxW preferred coming to an agreement without a L because then she could feel like the generous person who was granting H access to SD.  Going to court made her feel powerless and she switched to victim mode.  Now that H has primary custody (65-35), she wails that our following the court order means we treat her worse than a drug-addicted parent who abused a child.   

Hopefully your L will be able to talk to her new L soon and find out what her goals are - if it is custody or just money.

[LoveOnTheRocks]

I am a former GAL.  You've gotten lots of good feedback here.  I would stress honesty and mutual (with the GAL) concern for your S5.  I would not add to or take away from the truth of how things are and how they got there, because the GALs get information from every source they want, but demonstrating a good understanding of the facts, being able to communicate them, and showing that your primary concern is the wellbeing of the child is what the GAL will be most interested in.  I didn't want family drama, but if there was family drama, I wanted to know who had a level head and thought more for their childs interest than for their own, because the child or children were the innocents that could incur great harm at the hands of unstable adults in their environment.  It almost always becomes clear who all the players are and how they played... .and I always litigated for the interests of my child client(s)... .it was my job, and I did it with a passion.

Dirty dishes, laundry on the floor... .those didn't phase me, because at various times in my own home, this is possible... .depends on what the last few days were like. I expected running water and power, food in the fridge, home feedings (as opposed to Mickey Ds all the time!), not a history of tardiness to school nor being late picking up from school or after school programs.  All of this was established first visit and periodically checked on from then on.  What really mattered to me were how the adults adjusted themselves for the benefit of the child.  I did not look favorably upon adults who tried to deny a child a relationship with another adult who clearly loved and was loved by a child, just because the adults had differences between themselves.  That being said, if an adult had issues (chemical dependencies, mental illnesses, etc) that created a safety concern for small children, as long as it was not gossip, but was established via some reliable form of communication, I would support supervised visits, etc. 

I am not sure my input is any more relevant or significant than all that the other members have shared, but at the end of the day, the GAL is there for your child, make no mistake about it.  Do not attempt to manipulate the guardian over to "your side," because nomatter how fabulous you are, this guardian is there FOR your child FIRST, and their goal to represent and give a voice to a young person who had no voice without them became their goal long before your child became their client.  They are for the best interests of your child and as long as you are, too, you will be doing and saying what needs to be done and said in order to ensure your child is not only well represented, but also kept safe and loved... .and a happy guardian you will have!   

[prof]

A few updates.

My T talked to the GAL yesterday, and they're dropping the anger management assessment request!

There was also a pretrial hearing with just the L's yesterday.  The judge wants us to go to mediation if we can't come to a common agreement.  But uBPDstbxw didn't even have a proposal yet... .

My L is going to file for document discovery to drain uBPDstbxw's money.

[Turkish]

A few updates.

My L is going to file for document discovery to drain uBPDstbxw's money.

I'm not sure I understand what this means exactly... .?

[prof]

I'm not sure I understand what this means exactly... .?

uBPDstbxw has limited financial resources.  She only was able to afford her L's retainer because of a very generous gift she received (or so she claims).

My L knows her L pretty well, and her L will stop working as soon as the cash runs out.  So his idea is to create work for her L by filing a request for a bunch of documents.  He expects this will drain down a decent chunk of her retainer, making her more likely to try and work out a deal since she won't have the resources to continue fighting.

[Nope]

I would love to have it explained to me how the discovery thing works to drain resources from the none-filing party. Our L went the same route. My experience with this was that we had to pay our L to get the discovery questions together. So that cost us money. Then uBPD simply didn't respond to the request, so we had to file a motion to compel, which cost us money. Then when we finally got what we asked for, all her L did was forward us what she sent to him. Since she answered the discovery herself, I assume it cost her next to nothing.

[worriedStepmom]

I was dealing with a non-personality disordered ex and had the same experience.  My legal bill was twice his, because even though he filed for divorce, he never followed through on anything else after that.  It was all my lawyer nagging his to get things done.

You might want to ask your lawyer to rethink this strategy.  PD-afflicted people often avoid emotionally difficult tasks, and I suspect she's just going to ignore you.

[worriedStepmom]

The judge wants us to go to mediation if we can't come to a common agreement.  But uBPDstbxw didn't even have a proposal yet... .

She's not going to have a proposal.  If she does, it will be ridiculous.

In this, you're going to have to make the proposal, and then you're going to have to provide other proposals that are compromises until she agrees or you get to the point you aren't willing to negotiate away anything else and mediation fails.

[prof]

Spoke to my L this morning.  uBPDstbxw's L hasn't filed a thing since the pre-trial hearing... .

Some recent drama.  uBPDstbxw claims to have had the flu for 3 weeks.  Not only did she skip her Christmas visitation with S5, er, S6 (recent birthday!), she missed a ton of work and got a very small paycheck.

She called me up a few days back asking for money.  I said no -- I'm relatively broke, too.  All my extra income goes into paying off the ridiculous amount of debt I went into while we were together.  (She always had a way of wearing me down until I agreed to spending money on something... .)  Plus, she still owes me like 60 bucks from a couple months ago the last time I lent her money.

Then yesterday, she calls again, asking me to withdraw $4000 (!) from my retirement account so she can pay rent and get her flute out of the pawn shop.  She'll get half the retirement account eventually, but there are huge tax penalties for withdrawing early.

Like I said, she's an expert at wearing me down.  Within a few minutes, "hell no" turned into "have your L contact my L", which turned into, "I'll ask my L".

Of course my L's against it -- those tax penalties go against me right now.  Once the divorce is final and she gets her half, then she can withdraw from it early all she wants and the tax penalties will be on her.   He also reminded me that everything like this should be going between the L's anyway, instead of her contacting me directly.

But in uBPDstbxw's mind, me telling her that we should be going through our L's is equivalent to me having "always hated" her.  That phone conversation quickly devolved into her swearing and raising her voice, so I hung up.

A little while later, she did get in touch with her L and wanted to ask me a few questions.  After that was out of the way, she insisted on talking about why I hung up on her earlier.  That was going nowhere, so I hung up again and ignored her next couple calls.

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with this on a daily basis any more!

[SamwizeGamgee]

Good luck.  And happy birthday to your son!
I am essentially petrified by the prospect of GAL involvement as well as the easy road towards financial abuse that the courts lend to disordered people.  As a father in a mostly "traditional" jurisdiction, the tendency in a settlement would look like the traditional "dad gets the bills mom gets the house and kids in divorce.  That's an over generalization, but, I still think there's enough innate bias towards moms (especially one like my uBPDw who can put on total charm and martyrdom acts to appear like supermom and victim all in one) to give a dad long pause facing a GAL visit. 
I appreciate the candor in this thread.  I still have an irrational fear that keeps me married, but, I'll try to build courage. 
Best of luck as things drag on.

[ForeverDad]

Like I said, she's an expert at wearing me down.  Within a few minutes, "hell no" turned into "have your L contact my L", which turned into, "I'll ask my L".

Many years ago when I worked at a large hotel's reception desk in NYC, I would have people coming in asking for all sorts of stuff.  On the surface, some appeared reasonable.  I recall people walking in seeking a restroom.  Well, it was a residential hotel and I would correctly state, "Sorry, the restrooms are in the rooms, none available here in the lobby."  One woman was persistent, she had a kid hopping around.  She ask, "Well, where do you go?"  I replied we were under construction and I went into the basement behind locked doors.  I suggested again, "There are restaurants across the street and down the block, please try them."  The answer, "But they want me to buy something because restrooms are for their customers."  I was being guilted and pressured in the moment with little time to ponder a better response when the reality was there were other options, in that case they just had to be customers.

My learning experience, While we do want to be nice and helpful, often we sabotage ourselves if we let other people transform their problems into our problems.  Sometimes they have to own their problems, we're not mean or heartless if that's the way it has to be.

Then yesterday, she calls again, asking me to withdraw $4000 (!) from my retirement account so she can pay rent and get her flute out of the pawn shop.  She'll get half the retirement account eventually, but there are huge tax penalties for withdrawing early.

Of course my L's against it -- those tax penalties go against me right now.  Once the divorce is final and she gets her half, then she can withdraw from it early all she wants and the tax penalties will be on her.   He also reminded me that everything like this should be going between the L's anyway, instead of her contacting me directly.

Quite true.  If the money is listed as yours, when withdrawn or whatever, then the tax and likely penalty is yours.  The way it was done properly in my divorce was that a company drew up a prospective Domestic Relations Order (DRO) which the company's 401(k) administrator then "qualified" as a valid DRO (QDRO).  Once it was made an order by the court then the retirement company created an account for my Ex, transferred the funds from my account to her new account and then notified her about her account.  That way there was no way she could mess it up.  I could not afford the risk of a check written out in the name of her destination retirement account in case she took it and instead got her bank or elsewhere to cash it.

When done properly both the tax and the early withdrawal penalty are fully her responsibility.

I used an internet site (QDRODesk) to save the extra expense of my lawyer having it done.  He quoted me $900 or so if L handled it and I did it directly for less than half that cost.  Money was tight for me and so I was willing to do hands-on to reduce costs.

[prof]

Quite true.  If the money is listed as yours, when withdrawn or whatever, then the tax and likely penalty is yours.  The way it was done properly in my divorce was that a company drew up a prospective Domestic Relations Order (DRO) which the company's 401(k) administrator then "qualified" as a valid DRO (QDRO).  Once it was made an order by the court then the retirement company created an account for my Ex, transferred the funds from my account to her new account and then notified her about her account.  That way there was no way she could mess it up.  I could not afford the risk of a check written out in the name of her destination retirement account in case she took it and instead got her bank or elsewhere to cash it.

When done properly both the tax and the early withdrawal penalty are fully her responsibility.

I used an internet site (QDRODesk) to save the extra expense of my lawyer having it done.  He quoted me $900 or so if L handled it and I did it directly for less than half that cost.  Money was tight for me and so I was willing to do hands-on to reduce costs.

Oooh, that sounds nice.  It's a little late on my end, I'm afraid.  After uBPDstbxw's L threatened to call an emergency hearing, both L's came to an agreement to go ahead and withdraw the requested funds.  Taxes will be taken out of the withdrawn funds.  The bank is automatically withholding some, and I'll likely send in the rest as estimated tax -- still need to iron out the details.  She'll end up with a correspondingly smaller share in the final settlement.